The Luxury Prescription Show
The Luxury Prescription Show is a luxury lifestyle series hosted by Dr. Vinay Chopra, exploring watches, travel, dining, craftsmanship, and the people behind exceptional experiences. This show is about more than expensive things; it is about taste, standards, heritage, and how luxury is truly understood.
The Luxury Prescription Show
Inside Phillips Watches: Auction Adrenaline, Provenance & Trust | Ep. 3
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In the world of fine watch auctions, the story behind a piece can be just as important as the watch itself.
In this episode of The Luxury Prescription Show, Dr. Vinay Chopra sits down with Isabella Proia, Senior International Specialist and Head of Sale, New York, at Phillips Watches, for an inside look at provenance, market knowledge, collector psychology, and the adrenaline of bidding.
The conversation is also personal. Dr. Chopra regularly speaks with Isabella about Phillips auctions and values her candid perspective when evaluating watches both inside and outside the auction world. That trusted relationship creates a unique foundation for a discussion about judgment, access, scholarship, and the relationships that help collectors make informed decisions.
Together, they explore what happens behind the scenes before a watch reaches the auction block, why condition and provenance matter, and how specialists evaluate pieces that may become historically important. Isabella also shares how her background in history led her into the auction world, from Sotheby’s to Hodinkee and ultimately Phillips Watches.
Dr. Chopra and Isabella also discuss his own auction journey with Phillips, including the excitement of winning significant watches, the frustration of losing important lots by a single bid, and the difficult question every collector eventually faces: when should you keep bidding, and when should you walk away?
At its core, this conversation is about more than auction results. It is about trust, provenance, judgment, and the rare moments when a watch becomes part of a larger collector story.
You will also hear about:
- How Isabella Proia entered the world of watch auctions
- Why Phillips is highly selective about the watches it accepts for sale
- Why Patek Philippe and Rolex remain market titans
- How independent watchmakers are reshaping collector interest
- The adrenaline and emotion behind competitive bidding
- When paying tomorrow’s prices today may make sense
Like, follow, subscribe, and consider this your Luxury Prescription.
Welcome back to the Luxury Prescription Show. I'm Dr. Vinet Chopra. Today's prescription is Judgment, Provenance, and Auction Adrenaline. The show is about the people, stories, and relationships behind true luxury, not just the products themselves. Luxury feels one way in a boutique and another way in an auction room when the bidding starts and history suddenly has a price attached to it. That's where judgment, taste, and conviction matter most. My own collecting journey has included unforgettable wins and unfortunately losses I still think about. That's why today's guest is someone I respect deeply and whose perspective I value. Before we get into it, if you're enjoying the luxury prescription show, subscribe, follow, ring the notification bell, and share this episode with someone who appreciates the finer details. My guest today is Isabella Proria. Isabella is the head of sale and senior international specialist, vice president at Phillips Watches, one of the most respected names in the global auction world. She works with some of the most important watches in the market today and has a front row seat to the future of collecting. Isabella, welcome to the luxury prescription show. Thank you. Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00You know, we're going to talk about your journey first because I think it's really important to open up, especially, you know, someone who's here, knowing their background, their history. And I think your history is really, really cool. So let's go ahead and start with your college years and then and then kind of build your way up to how you ended up in kind of the watch world.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I uh I'm I'm from South Florida originally. Uh, and then I went to Georgetown for for college. And when I was there, my sophomore year, I was in this class. Uh it was the history of slavery. And weirdly, I also met my husband in that class. Oh, no way. Oh, we not he we did not get married at our sophomore year by me. But and um, and we actually never dated until much later, but that was where we met. And uh, and I fell in love. It was taught by Professor Adam Rothman, and he, you know, had this way of of looking at primary historical sources uh in a way that you know I had never really learned history like that before. And it was something that as you know, someone who like of heritage from the Caribbean, it it really resonated with me. And and so I kept on taking these classes and I I wanted to be, um, I ended up getting my master's degree right after at NYU. And I wanted to be, you know, a professor and I wanted to write books and and teach. Um, but kind of as I got closer to that like PhD track, I realized one how underfunded it was in that there weren't a lot of opportunities and also that it's quite lonely. And I it and the way my brain works, I need to be part of a team, you know, to to be the happiest version of myself. Even though I loved history and I I loved writing and I loved, you know, being in the archives, it wasn't necessarily like the best thing for my mental health. So I um went through a period of unemployment uh after after my master's degree. And my friend was working in the uh Chinese art department at Southeby's at the time. And I so I randomly applied. Uh it wasn't that far from my apartment. So I applied uh and I was placed in a temporary position, a floater position at at Southeby's in the watches department. And that was February 2015. You know, auctions have worked kind of the same way for a while. So we have everyone kind of has a spring sale and a um and a fall sale, you know, a winter sale. So in February is when you're gearing up for your spring sale. And so I got to see that whole, you know, the whole process from, you know, clients coming in and bringing watches and and, you know, you know, rejecting watches and and inspecting them, um, working on collections, then the cataloging, the research that goes into it, um, then even like the touring and the the showing the of the sale to collectors. And I've I fell in love with with watches and and telling their stories, and I wanted to know more. Um, I ended up moving out of that department. I wasn't a very good, honestly, department assistant. It's not my forte. I love watches, but I'm not like the most uh organized person, I guess. Um so it was, you know, I'm I'm more of a researcher and less of like a task person. Um so I um did some other things at at Sotheby's. I did, you know, I was in the marketing and when they launched e-commerce online sales for the first time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then, yeah, and then once I left Sotheby's, I I really wanted to get back to auction. Um and I wanted to get back into watches. And eventually I got a job at Hodinki. Someone I had met working at at Sotheby's, Car Barrett, uh, had gone to Hodinke and they were looking for an assistant in the Hodinky shop. So mostly honestly, I packed straps and I worked on inventory when they were selling straps and and you know stuff, but I also worked on the weekly releases of vintage watches.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And then after about a year, I um I still really wanted to go back to auction. That was really, you know, the catalog process and and the auction world, that structure and and that spoke to me. But there was no one really hiring, even, you know, back then, honestly, there weren't that many opportunities uh in the watch world. But then one came along kind of uh right after the Paul Newman's Paul Newman auction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh I interviewed and I and I I haven't looked back. So it's been eight years, eight, almost eight and a half years.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Was there something about watches that like resonated with you? Like was it was it just the you know, the way the watch functions? Was it just just your interest in watches at the time? What what gravitated you towards more watches?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I I think it was honestly this the storytelling. Uh, you know, and and that not only do watches sometimes come with a story because they're from, you know, a span important person, or but you know, they're created for a function. And that function is a story. You know, there's watches that are created with such specific functions, or you know, and back when I was getting into watches, you know, the big thing to collect was, you know, 60 sports watches and kind of post-war, you know, tool watches. And so that really grabbed me too, that there was, you know, watches that you wore specifically for mining, or you know, there were there are these watches that you, you know, that you wore to for diving and and that kind of spoke to me um like the whole um form follows function sort of thing. It had that historical element that I liked, the storytelling and the, you know, and the research, but it also had this sort of team aspect where, you know, you had to work with your colleagues in order to to sell the sale. You know, you you leaned on them for for you know knowledge and and you know, for their their advice. Um, so it was the team aspect that I had been and that kind of commercial aspect of like, you know, winning, basically, absolutely that I lacked in um, you know, in the academic world, coupled with that research and evidence and and you know, primary archival uh work that I enjoyed about, you know, what I'd been doing before.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, you you you kind of hit it right there, uh, you know, your background in history, and then a lot of these watches do have historical, you know, significance as well. And I think uh that's really interesting that even though you started off in the history sort of area, you kind of ended up in the history world. Yeah, especially with the watch world. So so that's really cool. What made Phillips the right place for you? And and and why is it so what makes it so special, I guess?
SPEAKER_03For me, it was the actual catalogs themselves that they produce and how much time they put into the footnotes and and and researching. Um, you know, that was what first grabbed me. But then once I, you know, interviewed it and started at Phillips, it was the people that I work with that that kind of kept me there. You know, I can in in fairness, I could go to any auction house and and write about watches.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, we all have to do that. But I couldn't go anywhere else and work with the people that I work with um and and have their expertise and and have their guidance and uh support and honestly and respect too. So it it um well hopefully I would be respected if I went to another auction house. But but uh but you know, the the team, the international team that we have, and most of us have been around, you know, since you know, for for some time now. That's something that I've wanted to change. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00You know, what I found really interesting is that there was an article that came out in 21 um talking from the Wall Street Journal that listed you as one of the eight most influential people in the watch business, uh, or I should say a female in the watch business. How did I make you feel when that article came out? And and uh what what do you have to say about that article today?
SPEAKER_03It was I mean, it was immensely flattering, obviously. Uh I don't I don't know. Uh you know, the the watch world changes well, the auction world changes quite slowly. Um so if you're affecting any change, uh then then you're you're doing something right or honestly something very wrong. But hopefully I'm doing something right. But I I think that a lot of people aren't used to weren't used to seeing women in my position. And in that, you know, that's changing something. And the same with the rest of the women that were on that list, you know, they're not used to seeing women in those specific positions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, there are not a lot of female watch auctioneers. There's not, there are not a lot of women watch specialists. I mean, there are there are more certainly more now than there ever were before, and that's a great thing. Um, but at the time when that came out, there were there were fewer. But I'm also I'm I've I would like to think that I'm more than that too, you know. Um so I, you know, that I have brought, you know, my own brand of of uh special you know, specializing in watches to to um to the clients I work with.
SPEAKER_00Do you do you feel that the watch world is is a pretty male-dominant sort of um uh sort of field right now? Or uh do you feel like women are underrepresentative, not only just in the auction world, but watchmaking world too? Um, you know, uh I actually met uh a watchmaker um in Geneva. Uh her name is Shauna Tain. Um she actually was the first female um to be accepted into the uh AHCI um academy. And and I sat down with her, I met with her in Geneva, um, one of the most brilliant people I think I've ever met. Uh she created this amazing watch. Um it's called the Chimia. Um, and it's a hundred-hour power reserve, turbine, uh, moon face, guillachet dial, amazing piece. So the potential is definitely there. Do you feel as though there's a reason why there's not many more watchmakers that are that are female or or I guess even in the auction world?
SPEAKER_03I guess for for watchmaking, it's difficult. I I can't really speak to that. Right. Because I I would have been a terrible watchmaker. But um, you know, but actually the woman who, you know, taught me a lot about watchmaking, yeah, the obviously was a woman. Um, Brianna Lee, she's an amazing watchmaker who does all the trainings for HSNY. Um, my first boss in the auction world was a woman and and and her, my other boss as well. You know, most of the people I've started working with were women. So it for me at first, for me, I was like, oh, everyone, everyone here, everyone here. And actually the auction world in general, a lot of the specialists are are women.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, just generally art and design. But watch making in the watch industry, especially the primary market, um, women tend to be in sort of quieter, supporting roles. Um, they're not in, you know, those top levels of business. And if and the sad thing is that if you're not in those top levels, then it's it's hard to see them. Um and I think that's it's not that there aren't women in the watch world, it's that they're not at the highest levels uh yet. Or, you know, now they are more. You know, you have you have the the CEO Odomar Piget. And, you know, um at the one point the CEO of Pioche was a woman, you know, I'm can't think of any off the top of my head right now. But, you know, there are so many more women. Um, but there can always be more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Um, but I think, yeah, historically we have been underrepresented in those sort of higher levels. Um and it it can only be for the better that that changes.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I mean I appreciate you being there uh every time I have an obscure question at like random times at night, uh, and I text you and you respond pretty quickly. Um so first of all, I I want to thank you for that because um there's been a lot of times where uh I always I made a mistake in purchasing something, but you kind of talked me out of it, uh which is awesome because the knowledge that you have um about watches, you know, it's second to none. So I'm amazed. And even my my wife sometimes, she's like, she's like, why are you texting her at like 10 o'clock at night asking her about a watch? She's probably with her kids and your family. And I'm like, Well, at 10 o'clock, hopefully my kids are like, yeah, that's true. Right. Um, but no, I I I just want to thank you for that. And and um I think it's it's a it's amazing. I also did read somewhere that um the Phillips auction house uh only uh actually rejects like 80 plus percent of the watches that is presented to you guys. Um so I I guess my next question is is is what makes a watch worthy um of the auction room in at Phillips?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I that's I mean that's a great question. And it's one honestly that I have to ask myself every day when you're offered a watch. Um, you know, we it it has to be the sort of perfect storm of of uh qualities. So it has to be the physical condition of the watch. The provenance is is some is sometimes important, sometimes not.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, is it is it rare? You know, but I think mostly what I think when I look at a watch and I'm like, do I want to auction, do I personally want to stand up and auction this off? One, and two, is this a watch I would buy for myself, you know, given unlimited funds or you know, given a the an ever increasing and decreasing risk size, you know, would I want to own this watch? And if the answer is mostly yes, you know, or the team is yes, you know, one of us would buy this, then I think it's um then I then that's kind of that factors into our decision making. Honestly, if we look at a watch and all of us hate it, even if it like is worth 30, 40, 50 grand, we might not take it because, you know, we're specialists, of course, and it's our jobs, but we're collectors too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So we try to really find watches that we love, you know, that we think collectors will get excited about. So that when you look at our catalogs, you're excited by every single watch in the auction.
SPEAKER_00Do you think current trends kind of play a role in that as well too? Because you know, because I mean you can see like um uh you know, FP Jorn uh blowing up. I mean, a couple of years ago, um, you know, I you know, there was there were watches from FP Jorne that you could get for, you know, five digits, six digits, like low six digits. Now the last auction that you guys did, some of these pieces went for seven digits, like millions of dollars. So do you think that trend is playing kind of a role in in the decision making on on what watches to pick for these auctions?
SPEAKER_03Well, it's definitely making a decision on uh it's on what options we have to select from, right? I mean, uh it it would be really interesting, and and none of us have done it, but um, or at least in internally we haven't done it, but if we were to kind of go through the composition of our top ten lots over the last 10 years, yeah and what that has changed because for a long time it's paddock, Rolex, paddock, rolex with you know, an omega Torbillon sprinkled in here and there, um, you know, an Odomar Pi Gay Royal Oak number one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then, you know, all of a sudden it changed, you know, Philippe Dufour and and um and and Fujorn, and and it has shifted, um and to a point where FP Jorn is right under Paddock and um and Rolex for their our top brands, whereas it wasn't before. So obviously when a watch is doing well, you'll get offered more of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03When sometimes you get offered, you know, you have one great sale of something and you get offered a bunch of them, and then you have one not so great sale, and you don't see those watches for months, years. So, so you know, it it is actually kind of fun to be flexible to the market in that way, uh, but also sometimes it can be frustrating because you're not necessarily seeing the watches that you want to buy being offered to you. Uh so you, you know, yeah, I would love to have a $24.99 in every sale, but it just doesn't happen that we get offered them in every sale, you know. I would love, you know, if we could, you know, pick and choose the exact references that we want, but that's not always the case. Um, so we we try, you know, of what we're offered and and the the collectors that trust us, we try to put together something that, you know, a dynamic, an interesting sale.
SPEAKER_00Has Mr. Jorne ever called you guys and said, Hey, don't sell this watch.
SPEAKER_03No, but one thing uh that he that the the Jorne the brand does frown upon and and something we we take seriously is you know things that you get for free at Jorn, yeah, not to sell them at auction. Wow, interesting. Unless it's for charity.
SPEAKER_00I don't know, it's possible. Wow.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so so we try not to sell like uh if you were like gifted, you know, a crate of wine or something. We don't sell those at auction. Um I would just rather drink them, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's interesting.
SPEAKER_03But uh but like we sold the construction hat and that was for charity, so that's different. Of course. Um but no, I uh you know, uh unless a a watch was, you know, reported stolen or something, we you know um if I I feel like if he had that reaction, he would have expressed that to the consigner.
SPEAKER_00That's true, that's true. So there's a lot of emotion that's involved in auctions for sure. What does an auction do emotionally that retail buying, you know, can never do?
SPEAKER_03I will caveat this by saying I don't actually have a lot of experience retail buying uh for for watches. Okay. Um obviously I'm shocked, but um, but I I so I can't I don't have a great direct comparison, but I would say that you know there is that adrenaline rush of the auction of you know the that competitive spirit that obviously you're not like you know you're not it's not like supermarket sweepstakes whenever you like walk into Rolex or something.
SPEAKER_00Um that would be sometimes that would be cool, like that would be awesome.
SPEAKER_03But but sadly, no. Um it would be stressful though. Yes, and that's why you know you don't have an auction every day. That would be very stressful.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03But you know, it is uh a production, um, and we try to make it not not theater in that it's inauthentic, but we try to make it engaging because it is a lot of watches and we you do have to sit there for three hours. Um, you know, you want to make it something that people really, you know, are are entranced by that they can sit in an auction for for two, three and a half hours and and not, you know, fall asleep. So we you know, we try to create that experience um you know, with especially with our auctioneers who are all watch specialists. But I think that you know, that sort of that anticipation, you know, you see the catalog three weeks in advance and you learn everything you can about the watch that you love, and then you know, you have the moments where you're waiting for the call, you know, for the specialist to call you or for your lot to come up online and you're bidding. And I think that's sort of this like I'm sort of like you know, moment like when you first probably I I don't know, I don't do a lot of dry racing, but like when you first hit the gas and and you know, and you go and you have to be in control, but you also like you know need to let yourself go a little bit. So I think that appeals to a lot of people. It doesn't appeal to everyone. And for those people, I say, you know, if you want to watch, yeah, but you're gonna get overwhelmed, you know, bidding live, then just let leave it out. And T-bid. You know, I don't want to push anyone to make them uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know if I ever told you the story of my first watch auction with you guys. Um, this was back back in June of last year. Um, this was a New York auction. I was actually in an Uber uh driving uh to New York City um for a meeting. Uh and uh I I happened on a Saturday. On a Saturday, yeah. I I I I was on my my uh Phillips uh app and the Paul Newman um Rolex pops up and I'm sitting there like, when am I gonna get the opportunity of bidding on a 1969 Paul Newman Rolex 6239 with the full set from the original owner? Yep. And I'm sitting there like, holy crap. I'm like, this is this is you know my opportunity. So I'm sitting there and I'm and I'm bidding, and it's it's hilarious because you hear Oral Box uh saying, you know, bid from Singapore, from Hong Kong, and all of a sudden, Colts Neck, New Jersey. I was sitting there like dying. I'm like, imagine the average person watching this auction right now, like sitting in Dubai or some like cool place, right? All of a sudden here in Colts Neck, New Jersey. And and anyways, I I was blown away because you know, I I think I bid one like twice or or three times. Uh, I forgot how many times, but I eventually got the watch. And that emotion, you know, the heart rate's up, you know, I'm sweating. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, I'm nervous, but at the same time, you know, when I win the the the the auction, I'm like elated. I'm like, I'm like so excited and happy. And and to know that I was competing against people from like Singapore and Hong Kong and like Dubai, and and I was able to kind of keep this in the United States, that was kind of a cool, proud moment for me. And um, you know, there um there's clips online on YouTube on on this specific lot, and and I showed it to my wife, and she's laughing. She's like, Oh my god, they said new coldsnack, New Jersey. And anyway, so that's my story. Um, I love this watch, and it's it's one of my favorite pieces, and I'm so excited I was able to win it. And and uh that's the emotion that I got. Um, and and I agree with you, I think it's just a completely different emotion. You know, you go to a retail store, it's kind of like, you know, all right, you know what you're getting, and it's a quiet luxury, right? Right exactly. And and this was this is unbelievable. And then uh and I won another watch from you guys. Um, there was an auction in New York in December, uh, and I actually uh fell in love with a uh you know very distinct watch, a mother of pearl diamond set, you know, Daytona. Um, you know, it doesn't sound as flashy as the the Paul Newman, but I really fell in love with the way the dial looked. And I don't have anything on an oyster band, and I was I was really excited to win that as well, too. Uh so um, of course, there were uh a couple of them uh that I would I was bidding on. I I think that was the FP Jorn um auction that I actually went to the pre-auction event where I where I met you with there as well, and uh we saw the cool Coppola uh prototype that Jorn made for him with the hand or whatever. That was cool, and I went for like over $10 million or something like that. That was that was really cool. But to be a part of that sort of auction, I think that was like mind-blowing. And my story for that one is actually, and and you're gonna laugh. Uh, I was actually at my um son's birthday party. So I was on the app during my son's birthday party, and I won that. My wife's like, what are you doing? She's like, get off the phone. So, anyway, so um, I don't know, two two pretty cool stories, um, especially with Phillips. Um, and um, it just excites me to this day. And I love auctions. I mean, auctions are so much fun, and uh, and I'm gonna be participating in your New York auction that's gonna be coming up uh in June, I believe, right? June 13th. Um, and I believe you've got an auction coming up at the end of May.
SPEAKER_03Um beginning of May, end of May, and then mid-June.
SPEAKER_00Right, awesome. Uh, did you want to just touch on that a little bit on some of the cool pieces that that might be in those auctions and the uh the dates, if you know the dates off the top of your head, sure.
SPEAKER_03But one I do want to say the craziest place I've ever been for a watch, which I sadly lost, was I was uh strawberry picking with my kids and it was getting cold. And but I like and if I I so I was crouched down picking strawberries out of the dirt with my like three-year-old twins and bidding on the phone for this watch in like in Italy. Oh wow, okay, uh in Italian. So my kids are looking at me because I'm speaking a different language, and and I'm also like, you know, fingernails deep in dirt and like you know, strawberry juices everywhere. And uh I didn't lose I didn't win the watch, but it was I I have this like visceral memory of being like, I'm really cold. And and I and I'm and my kids are looking at me like I'm crazy. Um yeah, so we have um, you know, this is our our spring auction season. So we have we start off in Geneva uh with in um May 9th and 10th, and then we go to Hong Kong, which is kind of uh right after uh Labor Day weekend, May 28th, 29th. Um I don't know the exact dates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_03And then wrap up in New York as always, uh June 13th and 14th. So we'll have a preview, you know, the week before um in both in all the locations in in that location. Um, you know, you can come and view the watches and um, you know, see them in person, and you can come and attend the sale if you want. Um I a friend um a client and friend of mine came with with his kids last year and he said that they had such like a cool experience. They're like um they're a little older than our kids, so they're like uh teenagers, like or you know, 13 to 16, and they had a great time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. I can't wait. Um I'm definitely gonna attend that one. And uh I actually would like to go uh to an auction in person. I think that would be kind of cool with a paddle and everything. Yeah. That that sounds like a fun experience as well. I think I think it's a good experience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I've never really been able to haven't had been able to experience it, you know, as a pure client. Uh but the feedback I get is that it's like it's very exciting. Um, you know, it it's it's a really interesting experience. Um, I think, you know, like sometimes my husband comes and he's always, you know, sort of blown away by like the whole production. Um that's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I know you mentioned losing a watch, uh, and I've lost watches myself. Um what it comes to mind to me, and I kind of regret this still, but not too much. But uh the Hong Kong auction last year, there was a Patek Philippe 50-50P. Um, it's a retrograde perpetual calendar, I believe. Um and uh I lost by one bit. Um so I I guess my question to you is is that what can you tell collectors or people who are participating in auctions on when to stop, you know, when when to let the room win? Um, you know, what what's your advice on that?
SPEAKER_03It kind of depends on on the watch, I guess. Um there are some washes that have pretty set market prices. Um and and for those, you know, you can be at the market price or maybe one bit above, and then you should probably stop. But there's some washes that are so rare or you know, really grab you that maybe you should give yourself a little a little leeway, right? Yeah. Um, and always remember that it's not a crime to pay tomorrow's prices today.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, some people kind of panic that they overpaid. And and it happens. People overpay for watches all the time. But if it's a watch that you really love, it's it's almost I've I've overpaid for watches too. But but, you know, honestly, most of the time I I end up, you know, not seeing returns or anything, but you know, seeing the the value that I overpaid for. It, you know, it it you know rising even above that level. I think it's you know, if you buy a watch that that has all those qualities that make it a great collectible watch, then it, you know, it's okay to kind of go go beyond. If it's a watch that you can really see yourself, you know, holding on to and and and and something that really grabs you, then I would say, you know, give yourself a little bit of leeway in in your budget. Or and and to be honest, ask, you know, sometimes I'm on the phone with a collector and they're like, should I keep going? And I'll say yes if I don't think they should, and I'll say no if I don't think they should.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, sometimes they listen to me, sometimes they don't. It's it's okay. Um, but I'll give you my honest opinion uh if you should keep going or not.
SPEAKER_00That's great. I mean, the the fact that you're able to give your honest opinion and and actually tell people to stop, I think that that's that's really important to know as well. We're we're seeing a lot of uh social media playing a role, did the digital world playing a role. Um has that changed um the watch collecting world and and the auction world as well? Immensely. Okay.
SPEAKER_03So much. Um one major thing is the amount of of knowledge that's out there um is is so much more in-depth and rich than it was five, ten years ago. Um, you know, there are people dedicated to to discovering things, right? On on the internet, and all of it's great, but uh in in the whole, the fact that there are so many people out there that are like dedicated to learning more about watches, because they're watches, you know, buying watches isn't a democratic process, but learning about them is because you don't have to go to school to learn about watches. You know, you have to obviously to be a watchmaker you do, but um, you know, to just learn more about watches, it's really about, you know, it's really about research and it's about hands-on experience. And that those two the combination of those two over time, you know, will make you a specialist. Um, so you know, people are really dedicated now to to learning as much as they can about watches and they document that on social media.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Um so of course, you know, that that you know trickles down or up to to the auction world, and um you see that reflected in uh in also in the primary market.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I don't see too many social media, so uh social media influencers, especially in the watch world, have kind of taken off as well too. Um now I don't see much of them being involved in kind of the auction world, uh, but more so just just you know when Rolex comes out with a new watch, or you know, if or if they're um talking about, you know, um, you know, like a special piece from Patek Philippe, or if one of the independent watchmakers comes out with something, you'll you'll see a lot of things from like um Laddie's influencers and stuff. Do you think that the influencers um uh should be involved more so in the auction world? Or are you guys happy with the way things are right now?
SPEAKER_03I mean we we definitely get influencers at attending our previews and and I think that you know perhaps you know if if more of them wanted to to come and and try on watches and and you know then that would only help.
SPEAKER_02Okay, good. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_03But I also, you know, I think when you're an influencer, I'm not, but but you speak to your your audience, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um and and you know, if your audience is buying new watches, then that's what you'll you'll talk about. You know, I I'll be I'll be honest, I don't I'm not like for millennial, I'm not super well versed in in how you know, sort of uh watch influencing works. But um, you know, overall it's it's always been positive and and and and you know a you know, a lot of them are are great and and very enthusiastic and they always like I always enjoy interacting with them, you know, at our at our previews. But I think it is hard as an auction house to kind of be um part of it uh just because we have so much going on and we would need like a dedicated like social media influencer that like you know to work with. And it it is hard to be a brand and also an individual person. So, you know, an influencer needs to be an individual person, sort of, you know, and and we're still a brand.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. What excites you the most about the future of watch collecting and and um and you know watch auctions in in general? Is it a new trend, a new generation of buyers? Um, do you feel like the demographics are getting younger? Is there like parts of the world that you think are now, you know, really into watch collecting that you haven't seen the last you know 10, 15 years?
SPEAKER_03I just think that the you know the demand for watches globally, you know, across demographics, across, you know, geographic location is is increasing and and it's it's exciting. Uh it's you know, it's always exciting that you can find, you know, even but it's not just like ah this 25-year-old, you know, kid from wherever is now getting into watches, but it's you know, someone who's 50 is also just getting into watches. Or, you know, everyone comes to watches in their in their own ways. Um, but now there's so many more avenues to get there, right? And I and I love also that people are seeing that there are different, you know, uh levels to the in watch industry and the the like the market. And you know, there's the primary market, there's second market, there's the auction room, the you know, there's all this diff all these different parts. You don't just have to pay attention to whatever new release there is. You know, you have the independent watchmakers that are, you know, my my colleagues refer to it as the sort of new golden era of watchmaking. There's so much artisanal watchmaking going on.
SPEAKER_00Do you think they're taking kind of taking over now from like the big brands, or do you still see more interest in um the big brands in these auctions? You mentioned before Patek Philippe Rolex, Patek Philippe Rolex, but then all of a sudden you see Jorn coming in, you see Philippe DeFour coming in now, or Shepard Sheppy's coming in with his watches. Do you feel like the trend now is kind of leaning more towards the independence side?
SPEAKER_03I think it's just balancing out more. Um I think those, you know, those Titans, they're not gonna go away. Right. Um, you know, no one's ever going to stop collecting 2499s or 1518s. Um, that would be a very sad day. I would not be excited about that. But I think, you know, it's nice that it's not either or anymore. I think that's what it is. You know, you're not an independent watch collector. You you can collect a $24.99 and you can buy an Acrivia AKO6. Um, you know, because you could there are things about watchmaking you can appreciate equally about both. I think that that sort of globalization of of you know of watch of being interested in watches um is something that's really exciting. That, you know, you used to have it used to be very like stratified, like you would have a client that you would call if you had this specific kind of Rolex or the specific kind of Patek or you had an independent watch collector. But now you have people who, you know, are buying langas and you know, and uh vintage, you know, British pocket watches. And also, you know, they're also buying um, you know, uh vintage Daytonas. And and you know, because and I I love that because I um have like a very broad love of watches. I don't have any specific, you know, category of watch collecting that I love more than another. So I love that now people are are sort of they're not limiting themselves.
SPEAKER_00One of the interests that you told me about that you have is jewelry. Um and I see you ring a uh few pieces of jewelry here today, uh Van Cleaf earrings, which is amazing. Do you feel like your eye for jewelry um overlaps with your eye for watches and and uh or is it a different kind of beauty?
SPEAKER_03I think they influence each other. You know, the jewels came before the watches. Um it it's it my um mom and I collect together. Uh so you know, ever since I was really young, if we went somewhere, um the she was my parents were part of uh the jewelry industry.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03So um mostly gold. So they, you know, they their tastes influenced me. And I feel like when, you know, and then the things I love about jewelry are similar things to what I love about watches. I love interesting stories, I love, you know, interesting forms and shapes. So, you know, I I keep them separate and I have different collecting philosophies um for both. But I um I do do think that, you know, everyone has that, or not everyone, but some people have that collecting gene and mine started with with jewelry. Um and and now I I prefer to to allocate my funds to to watches more, but still I I love jewelry and I love the history of it and and the craftsmanship, which are the same things that I love about watches.
SPEAKER_00Very cool. Um, I want to kind of switch this up a little bit. Um, I I know you mentioned uh when we first start talking about maybe a funny story or two or something about um Oral Box. I I I find that guy fascinating. Like he like he's like the suave, like um, you know, he's when he's up there, he's like the you know, he's commanding the room. Uh I watched the videos of him um set selling the original Paul Newman watch, uh, how excited he got, and and a couple other auctions after that when he was like super excited. Um tell me a little bit about him. Is there any any kind of fun stories that you can share about him?
SPEAKER_03I have ones that he'd he'd want me to share. Um, he's he's I I first of all, he's you know, an incredible boss and and colleague, um, and and uh someone that you you know you could talk to for hours. He doesn't have hours to talk to you because he's busy, but um, you know, someone that that has is an infinite fountain of of good of stories and uh you know and he is you know how he is on the rostrum, uh which I which I like about our our auctioneers that they are who they are on the rostrum, off the rostrum. Um off the top of my head, I just can't think. Maybe I'll uh maybe one will will come back to me.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_03Um but no, he is uh he is uh he is lots of good stories.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. So we're gonna continue this fun theme. Um you also mentioned that uh you do like uh cooking sometimes and and food and meals and things like that. So let's just say you had uh like a completely free evening. What's one luxury meal that you would cook at home? Um what do you enjoy enjoy to eat? And also uh what would you drink? That's important as well. Drinking. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um I have a lot of I think about I actually think about this a lot, but for me, luxury is all about like the contrast of you know, maybe something like eating a really high-scale meal but in your sweatpants. Um, you know, or like I I I love you don't have to have an entire meal of, you know, caviar and foie gras. You can, you know, you can, you know, have elements of of something that are that's much more elevated with something that you know brings you comfort. Because what's if luck if luxury isn't also comfortable, then what's the point of in in indulging in it? Um I'd probably start with some cocktails, probably tequila-based.
SPEAKER_00Um what kind of tequila? You have a brand. I usually my husband is really my classizel or uh usually class azul or casumigos. Okay, cool. Nice.
SPEAKER_03Uh you know, um my husband does a lot of the the liquor buying. Um and you know, something I I I hate anything that's like really sweet. Right. So something and then, you know, maybe like something like oysters or a sashimi or something. And then I will just love like honestly, like a big steak. Okay, medium rare. Nothing wrong with that. Um big steak, uh, a great like leafy salad, something that you know that you got from like the farmer's market that morning, something that's really crunchy and crisp, um, maybe with something like like fennel or something, something that has that like weird mouthfeel, you know, in it. Um and then honestly, and then it's just like a a classic dessert, you know, a bottle of red wine, something really nice. Absolutely. Something really nice. A client introduced me to um Keishoge. Okay. Uh he is a Japanese winemaker who makes these really amazing uh burgundies. Okay. Uh and he it his it his wines are um incredible. Yeah, I gotta look that up. That's it. And I I can't speak like intelligently really about about wine, except that I like to drink it and it's either drinkable or very drinkable. Um, but you know, yeah, a great uh you know, that steak, oysters, salad, wine, a cocktail, and then maybe finish off with something an uh something Italian, a dessert, you know, e even not necessarily even like a tiramisu like or something like that, that's classic, but you know, just maybe even like an a parate uh digestivo that is uh Italian.
SPEAKER_00You mentioned your background, um, so Italian, and you mentioned something about um the Caribbean as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my my my father was from Italy. Okay. Uh he was born there, and my mother was born in in Haiti. Oh, no way. Interesting. Okay. All right, yeah. Yeah, and they they started a a gold chain business together in the in the 70s. Okay. Um, they were, you know, you know, uh like Ice like um Mr. T.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. You know the like big gold chain. Yeah, the the the rope ones.
SPEAKER_03That was like what they were producing. They were producing like big rope chains in the 70s and 80s.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03Um, but I wasn't involved in all that because I wasn't born in the 70s or 80s. Okay. Uh I was a retirement baby.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03So I got I got to uh experience the the you know, they they grew up traveling a lot with me. I was I'm an only child.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um and and so I think that I, you know, it in I was very, you know, fortunate to have, you know, that sort of luxury in my background. Always like, you know, I grew up a lot in Italy and and um, you know, traveling around Europe. So I've always been surrounded by good food and um absolutely I mean fren I have French food, Italian food.
SPEAKER_00I mean that's mostly Italian food. Yeah, but Italian, nice. Italian food always tastes different in Italy than it does here in the United States. You know that you know what I'm talking about, right? Yes. Uh I've been all over Italy and the food there is phenomenal. And and for some reason you can't find that here.
SPEAKER_03I have a theory that it has to do with um the way that you only eat food that's in season in Italy. Yeah. Um, whereas like like in like okay, so like where I the town I grew up in in Italy is famous for their white asparagus. And in the United States, you can get a white asparagus anytime.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But you can only get white asparagus at a very specific point in time, and you like, you know, in in in where I live in the north of or where I grew up in the north of Italy, you only get the white asparagus at, you know, there's only like a couple of like months or weeks that you can get it. And then there's no white asparagus for the rest of the year. And if you have a bad crop of white asparagus, you don't get as much white asparagus. You know, so I feel like because there's that, you know, in in you know, in in March and May, we have in March and April, we have this vegetable and these fruits, and we have this, that that's much more natural cycle of food. And I think that's why it tastes better. I don't know if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Well, it that's interesting because I I won't eat tomatoes here in the United States. Right. I don't eat them at all. I it's just the it's just a taste, it's like weird tasting. I I'm not sure. But in Europe Really, even in New Jersey. I I it I that's what I hear too. But I I just can't do it. But when I go to Europe, I eat tomatoes like a madman. Like, like it tastes like it tastes like fruit to me. Yeah. And like I I eat it on everything. And and it's just so strange that I can't do that here in the United States for some reason. And I don't know why. I don't know if it's the the way it's ripened here or the chemicals or whatever they use here, it's it's much different than what it is in in in Europe. Uh I love food, so I can sit here and talk about food for hours. But um uh so uh outside of watches, um what what actually feels luxurious to you? Is there anything else that interests you other than watches and jewelry?
SPEAKER_03Um I wish I wish I had more time to be to have interest. But I honestly don't um I love cars. I I mean like I I like I said, like cars and wine are like not things I can speak super intelligently about, but you know, I feel like I have good taste. I feel like I can, you know, I love I you know can admire a beautiful vintage car. I can, you know, I can definitely admire like a great, you know, wine vintage. Um, you know, I I mean I like lots of little, you know, little lux little luxuries, you know, like, you know, things, you know, that you use in your bathroom or, you know, um soft clothes or you know, something I I like, you know, um I'm not I'm not super into purses, really. I wish I I wish I were, but um I just I I have never I don't know. I think it's because I think it's a it's like a genetic thing. Like my parents were like never really into purses.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Or my mom, so like I also am not like they just don't I like shoes, but I don't like purses. I don't know. No, I mean for me luxury now is is time, I guess. Uh luxury is honestly like you know, spending time doing nothing. Yeah. Um, you know, or or having the uh the opportunity to, you know, connect with my kids in a way that I don't get to, um, or my friends or my husband, or going on a, you know, on a trip uh spont I think honestly the biggest luxury now is spontaneity. Is that something you don't get when you have a job and you have kids and you have you know commitments and responsibilities. So I think that's like what's really luxurious now is like if I can be spontaneous in any way, then I'll make the budget big for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I I notice um a lot of people um, you know, when they talk about watches, um, they also love cars as well. Uh and I agree with you. I think you know, uh cars and watches are kind of very um similar and and and the you know the precision, the engineering and and the mechanics. Uh so you know, I I see that a lot, especially with uh a lot of collectors as well. Um before we wrap up, um, I just want to ask you, do you have like your perfect three-watch collection um that you would design? Um uh just curious.
SPEAKER_03I mean, in an ideal world, off the top of my head, I mean, it would be sort of one of the classic Patek Philippe um perpetual calendar chronographs. So for me, with my wrist size and my tastes, I would love, you know, an an early 3970, you know, but of course a 2499 or 1518, I would not turn my nose up at it.
SPEAKER_00Um that's all they got.
SPEAKER_03And then, you know, a vintage Paul Newman. Okay. Um, you can't go wrong. Right. Obviously. Absolutely, yeah. Um, and I was so excited that that watch went to such, you know, a passionate collector, someone who really loves it, because it took me two like a year and a half to bring that watch to market. No way. Uh, from the original owner. He he was just like, it wasn't that he he was waffling or going back and forth. He's just, you know, it wasn't a priority for him.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh so when he finally came and was like, okay, I'm ready to sell, uh, he's actually he was in Arkansas. And I actually he didn't tell me that it had all the documentation. So I actually didn't even know that it was full set until it arrived in the office. Um, which is, I mean, I wish I got those sort of surprises more often.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, so so that was, you know, it's it's always exciting to bring a watch to market, but it is also exciting.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you you got the original polished cloth. I mean, the cloth's in there. It's crazy. It was so funny.
SPEAKER_03I actually on the on the on one of the either the service card or the guarantee, there's a phone number handwritten.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03So I I guess I must have been bored that day. I'm I'm not usually bored at the office. Maybe not bored, but maybe I was uh feeling particularly curious. Yeah. And so I called the number. Okay. Um, and very nice lady at Rolex picked up. It's the Rolex Service Center. And I think it was only service like maybe once or twice back in in the the 80s. So they have they've had the same phone number going to their service center since you know, whenever the service, I think maybe 1983 was service or something. Um yeah, she she was like, So how can I help you? She's like, We have a lovely showroom, you know, on on 50 whatever street. And I was like, ah, she's like, if you know about Rolex, I'm like, I a little bit, you know, not not too much. Uh she was lovely. Um but it was so funny. I thought it I thought it would for sure go to uh like a you know dead end or something. Or maybe some, I don't know. Maybe I thought it would be like some nefarious character. Right, right, right. Um no, so okay, so a perpetual calendar chronograph, a Paul Newman Daytona. I per my favorite iteration is not uh either well I personally actually like the um non-Paul Newman yellow gold uh Daytonas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's beautiful. I've seen that as well.
SPEAKER_03But I would be happy with a Paul Newman as well. And then, you know, just an I probably honestly a 38 millimeter brass resonance. Oh yeah. Platinum with a pink gold dial. I think that's I think those are pretty, I mean, I have there's lots of watches I want and the list grows every day and it doesn't seem to get smaller ever. Um, but I think like that's a great three-watch collection where you have all the nice, all the the corners of the cornerstones, you know? I don't have any of those watches. But maybe one day.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. All right. Well, well, first of all, thank you so much for for being on the show today and and for your perspective. Um, once again, I also want to thank you again for being available anytime that I'm texting you about random questions about watches. Um, I think that's that's so cool. And uh, you know, once again, thank thank you for your time. Um so today uh was a reminder that luxury is about more than the product, it's about judgment, craftsmanship, trust, and the stories behind every great piece. If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe, share it, ring the notification bell, and follow the luxury prescription show. I'm Dr. Vinay Chopra, and consider this your luxury prescription.