You're Not Broken: Faith, Anxiety, and the Panic Attacks No One Saw

What does the Bible say about anxiety when you love God but still feel panic rising? 

In this episode, Kate shares her story of anxiety and panic attacks despite a strong faith, and the truth she wishes someone had told her sooner: you are not broken, and you are not failing as a Christian.

So many believers carry a quiet shame, wondering, "I trust God, so why am I still anxious?" This conversation is for you. We talk honestly about what anxiety as a Christian actually feels like, why faith and fear can exist in the same heart, and how peace comes not from pretending you're fine but from letting God meet you in the mess.

Kate opens up about the panic attacks no one saw, the bible verses for anxiety that became lifelines, and the slow work of changing anxious thought patterns instead of burying them. If you've searched for prayer for anxiety, scriptures for anxiety, or simply needed to hear that God isn't disappointed in your struggle, press play.

You don't have to choose between your faith and your feelings. You can bring both to God and find real peace.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

We're hopeful that sharing our stories today will help somebody out there and if not, maybe entertain you in some ways.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Right. You're listening to Carpal Confessions of the Chronically Aware. Join us for our morning commute as we travel along I-70 and talk about faith, family, trauma, motherhood, work, and anything else that comes up. We're thankful that you joined us today, and we hope that God uses us and our stories to speak to you today.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

And off to the races.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Good morning. Good morning. Welcome back to the Carpool Confessions podcast. We are hitting the road this morning. And we are so excited that you joined us. So thank you for watching. Um, we are continuing the conversation about anxiety today. And I'm Kate Shaw, by the way. And I'm Kelly Bryson. And we're hopeful that sharing our stories today will help somebody out there, and if not, maybe entertain you in some ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Right. Because you are not the only one who feels the way that you do all those inner feelings that we keep to ourselves out of shame because we're afraid to burden others, and the list goes on and on. But there is power in sharing that and finding others who may have had similar feelings and experiences as you.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yep, absolutely. And you know, I think one thing that we've talked about a lot is how a lot of times there can be a misconception uh with people in the church community, especially, and people that maybe aren't in the church community coming in and thinking, oh, these people have their life together. Or, you know, I certainly don't want anyone to look at me and get the wrong idea that you know I do not deal with some of the same struggles as everybody else, because believe me, I do.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Um, and obviously we're gonna talk about a lot of that as well. So um we led with last week's podcast on a different type of anxiety, so trauma, trauma anxiety, or anxiety derived from significant prolonged trauma because we live at that for a reason. So a lot of this podcast so far has been giving you a background of Kelly's story just because it lays a framework of understanding of what she's encountered. You're gonna get to hear from me as well about my story, but we definitely thought that it would be a big deal to lead with that because it influences so many of our conversations. Absolutely, and so um uh Kelly explained to me about trauma, the conversations around anxiety for trauma survivors are generally lost on a lot of those people, absolutely, and yeah, and Kelly, you can explain that a little bit just to recap, but yeah, just the anxiety for me looks a lot different because of, like she said, the prolonged um abuse that I experienced and all of those things, but trauma or anxiety can take so many different forms, and it doesn't look just one way.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

And the reason why I thought it was super important to share what it's like for a complex trauma survivor is because a lot of content, there's just not a lot of content that is specific to that, and so I know when you know I'm out on the interwebs looking for resources that pertain to me specifically, it can be it can be a little disappointing at times to to come across things that have nothing to do with what your experiences look like. And I really, for us, I didn't want to lose those listeners who have experienced that level of trauma and have that specific kind of anxiety. But it's again, it's not that other anxieties don't matter, it's just that my specific type of anxiety, there's just not a lot of content around that out there. So I'm hoping you know, to help create that content for others, but it's still important to talk about all forms of anxiety, right? Because again, anxiety, you know, it's just a different beast that can show up in so many costumes.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Absolutely, yeah. And you know, we it's really easy when you're doing something like this to alienate a specific group of people because you know, there's not a one size fits all to every piece of advice. You know, we can come to you and explain what our experience has been with one thing or another, and we can also explain, you know, what the Bible says about these things, but absolutely um, but I think at the end of the day that that in carrying through with the trauma conversations, uh, we we felt that we owed it to that specific group of people to leave with um lead with that. So on this episode, we're going to take a step back and we are going to talk a little bit more about probably a lot of the anxiety that the majority of our uh people that are watching this or listening to this are experiencing and the general worries of life, the general anxieties of life. Um, and that's something that has impacted me pretty significantly in my life. And, you know, Kelly and I, if you watched our earlier episodes, we talked about how we were both warriors as kids. Yes, you know, we were we were having bad dreams, and you know, I remember being a kid and and I would chew my food into oblivion because I didn't want to swallow it because I thought I was gonna choke on it. Like it was just like this extreme anxiety and fear of death. Like there was just this this really I had that I did have that anxiety too.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah, and I think we talked a little bit about it in one of the episodes, but you know, I I have heart issues, and I was aware there was something wrong with my heart even when I was a little kid, and it gave me anxiety, but I didn't have the language for it, I didn't know what I was experiencing. But if I couldn't feel my heartbeat, it would scare me. I would think it'd stop, it was gonna stop beating. So I'd get out of bed and do jumping jacks to raise my balls.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah. Well, and I, you know, I grew up in the country, so out in the middle of nowhere, and I remember I would lay in bed at night and just be so terrified that somebody was gonna come, you know, break in or rob us, or you know, come, you know, uh whatever. I don't even know what I thought. I just really thought, you know, that that was gonna happen. And um, and so as a I just know as a child, I was a very anxious little child. And, you know, I think back and and it it came to light more as I experienced some of the things that I experienced as an adult with anxiety, but I I think back to a moment when I was watching a movie with my parents, and I don't remember even what the movie was, I just remember that the guy was flying an airplane in like a remote place, and he had a passenger with him, and the guy driving the airplane had a heart attack, and they they crashed the plane, and I remember as a kid not knowing exactly what was going on, but I thought I was having a heart attack, and I I and I sent it sent me into a straight which I know now to be a panic attack, but I I distinctly remember my parents like being in their bedroom with them and them just being like flabbergasted, like, what is wrong with you? And me just like thinking I'm like I'm literally I'm probably I don't know, maybe maybe six, seven, eight, I don't know. I'm not that old. And I just remember just being so certain that I was gonna die, you know, and so I I didn't know it then, but now as an adult, now that that's raised its head again in my life a couple years ago, now I recognize what that was, and so you know, anxiety, some people are more prone to it. I have always been a worrier, and you know, one of those one of those things, like again, started from the very get-go with me. I think I just very, very worried about what's happening in the world around me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

And well, again, I think being a child, you don't have the language for these things, and yeah, you know, we've come a long ways since we were children with mental health. I mean, I look at the conversations my kids have with other kids, and they definitely have a lot more awareness than we did as children. Absolutely. So when you have those experiences as a child, you know, as a child, like we did, like you just don't know how to convey that. And then the adults around you don't really have the language either because it's just not wasn't talked about when we were growing up. I didn't know, I don't ever remember hearing social anxiety growing up. Do you know? Like that was not a thing. Not that people didn't have social anxiety, but it there wasn't like this label, there wasn't this understanding.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

That's so true. And I and it's funny because my grandpa, I um my mom's dad.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Okay, the one that died on my birthday.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

So her mom is morbid like I am, and she remembers my birthday because her brother died on it.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

No, her dad. Her dad. Her dad, I'm sorry, her dad. Her dad. Yeah. Um, but yeah, well, that's the thing with him was that you know, it was always like, oh, well, grandpa doesn't go to church and grandpa doesn't go out and do things, and okay, you know, he doesn't go he had social investments, you know, like those kinds, yeah. So, you know, it's just kind of one of those things that yes, it's progressed over over time.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

People have recognized, you know, or yeah, you know, grandpa and all his train sets. Sounds a little bit like the chism.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yeah, could be. I mean, I mean, you know, we're all a little, you know, unique in our own ways.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah, we're all a little neurospicy, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, so I mean, I think again, anxiety kind of follows everyone at this point. You can't really live in this world without experiencing anxiety in some way, shape, or form. Um, just in general, if you if you pay any attention to the news, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

I mean well, and there's anxiety that's completely normal too. And I think it's good to mention that there, you know, there is anxiety. Um, you know, if you're like, for example, I get excited to ride a roller coaster, it gives me like this rush, and it's all it's an anxiety feeling, but it's like a good anxiety, or you know, you won an award, and sometimes excitement can feel very similar to those anxious feelings.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Well, exactly. And it's it's it is a built-in mechanism for us to protect us in some ways, you know, and so there is a there is a reason that we are equipped with with these responses that our body has to, you know, perceived or real threats. And you know, what what at the end of the day, you know, you have to figure out a how does this, if you're a Christian, I mean, first of all, I I feel like people have to understand how this fits into their walk with Christ, what the Bible has to say about anxiety, because I think there's a lot of misunderstandings about that. And then also, like, how how do I live my life and be free of this? How do I manage it? How do I not let it control my life? Because I have been in a very, very dark place where it just completely just ran every aspect of my life, and that was the hardest thing. I mean, when it started, so I think it was so it was a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Yeah, I was gonna say, when did it when did it really start for you as an adult?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, so I did not have a lot of really outward anxiety. Like I did not ever have a panic attack or anything other than that one when I was little. Okay. I when I became an adult, I did not have, I wouldn't have told you I was an anxious person.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

I wouldn't have told you that I I wouldn't have I wouldn't never have thought that either.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I was I was a worrier, yes, like with my kids.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Um, but yeah, I think something happens when you have children and you also develop some new anxiety you've never thought of before. I know that's been true for me.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Well, and and as a part of my story as I look back, like yes, I've definitely been through some, you know, experiences that have altered my brain catching. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, just yeah, then we will definitely have to talk about that because that like I being able not not being able to even have kids without almost dying, like that's a that's a a huge one, you know, and Brady getting a you know, severe head injury at two, you know, yeah, like all these things, you know, have obviously contributed in small doses towards that, but nothing really surfaced until around 2023. And okay, yeah, and so there had been a lot of family things going on, and just because some of those are still going on, I won't like elaborate into the details of that, but it was just causing me a lot of um, a lot of anxiety because of the way that my family members were interacting with each other, so it was very much causing me stress because I felt like you know, one family member is enabling the other family member, and you know, they're not treating each other nicely. And so it was just a lot, you know, it was it was really hard for me to watch.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

And so well, and I think for you, Kate, if it's okay, um you're I feel like you're a sort of peacekeeper, you're always like there's a way to figure this out. Nobody needs to get upset, like let's just talk. Yeah, and when you're somebody that's like that, it's very hard to encounter people who are not like that because I'm the same way. Yeah, I want to let's talk about this. Yeah, let's let's have an emotional, mature conversation.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah, and the reality is that most people on this earth are not exactly that way, so negative. Um, but you know, the other thing too is that and in our people pleasing episode, we talk about this as well. Is that through the coaching I've been through, I've kind of been revealed to me that, you know, I I spend so much time trying to control the emotional responses of others. Yeah, it's very much a control thing for me. It is, and again, I said this on the last podcast, I'll say it again. Like when I say it out loud, it makes me sound like a crazy person, but it's really my intention is good. You know, I just am worried about the people that I love. I'm trying to, you know, help them see a way out. And um, you know, so that was a very stressful situation for me. I mean, all the people involved were people I was very close to, and you know, really I just I wanted to try to inject some truth into the situation, and I, you know, basically tried to approach one of these family members in love about this situation, and it completely backfired. Um, and you know, they did not receive it well, I'll put it that way. Um, and uh, you know, never have I had that kind of conversation with these people like this, and it was very hard because I spent my whole life being a people pleaser and being the easy one and never causing, you know, never questioning anything. But, you know, when I when I tried to use my voice in the situation, it did not go well, right? It did not go well at all. I actually got kicked out of their house, like as far as like I was just there for you know dinner, but it just wasn't it wasn't good, and it was very deeply painful. And I and I think that happened on a Friday, and then at the same time, the probably around this the same day or the day after, um, one of my close friends had a complication with surgery, and it was serious, like it wasn't supposed to be a serious surgery, but um, you know, her husband, who never calls me, called me, you know, and and I had to go to um to the hospital and sit with him, and it was like the scariest thing I've ever experienced. Yeah, you know, to date, it was just like I literally thought she might die. Like it was like really scary. And so um, and so I I think the culmination of those things just like almost unlocked something within me. Yeah. Because let me just be clear, I was already a believer at this time. Okay, I've been walking with the Lord since like 2015, okay. So it's not like I was off in some distant land, like felt like my relationship was great with God, you know. It's just that these external circumstances just affected me somehow and just ignited some sort of uh fear response in my body that I had never had happen before. I mean, it was so what happened next was um I was at work and I went to I drove to McDonald's to go get lunch. Um, and I pulled into the parking spot, and all of a sudden I just felt like my heart just dropped out of my chest.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

I've experienced that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

And I started getting really hot and I started getting really dizzy and so much so that like I started to black out, and I thought, oh my gosh, I'm gonna like die in my car in the parking lot of McDonald's. Not exactly how I saw that going.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

You know, you did not want a McDeath rent.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

No, did not. I did not, I did not want a fast food death, okay? But so so it was so, it was so scary. It was all of a sudden just like in my, I've never felt such a like just like insane. I literally thought, I mean, I did not think it was anxiety or panic attack, did not think that at all. I thought I'm like, I'm having a heart attack. This is it. I'm about to go fall out on the floor in the middle of this, these poor people's lunches. You know, I'm in my car at this time, but then I decided I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go in because if I'm like about to like die, I feel like I need some people there around me, right? So I'm gonna just walk in and you know, just so I can have some people but near me because I I literally thought it was like something serious. Like I thought my heart, I was having a heart attack, or I don't know, because my chest, I mean, it was so much pain in my chest, and I was literally like I could see like things closing in, like it was just so scary. I can't even explain to you the amount of I've never had anything like that before. Um that's terrifying. It was terrifying because I like I said, I don't other than the time, which I at the time I wasn't thinking, oh yeah, I remember when I was a little girl. I had no, I wasn't thinking I'm like, oh yeah, I'm a grown woman, I'm probably dying. So um I go in, and I remember, guys, if you're having a medical episode, it's not recommended to go to the McDonald's workers because they're not exactly qualified to deal with the situation.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah, they're well, I mean they're just little babies still.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Well, this one wasn't, it was the grown woman, but but I walked in there and I and I kind of like I don't know, they probably thought I was on drugs or something, but I walked up to the the desk or the the counter or whatever, and there was a lady there, and she I she was like, Oh, how can I help you? And I was like, Oh god, all I could think to say was, I'm not feeling well at all. Is there Anyway, I can have some water. And so she like was really sweet and gave me a you know cup, but she just like looks at me like a deer in the headlights like, please don't die on me right here in front of me. Like I don't get paid enough to deal with this. And so I sat at that McDonald's for probably 30-45 minutes, just just pounding water, just drinking like ice water, just pounding water. Like these people in this restaurant must have thought I was absolutely crazy, like because I did not look okay, like I looked not okay. So eventually it started to kind of dissipate dissipate, and I was like, okay, maybe I'm not dying. I don't know what that was, but that was really weird. Did you call anybody? I don't remember at the time if I called anybody. I I probably did. Um, because over the next probably year, my go-to person to call when I would have these episodes would be Libby. Oh because she because here's in my mind, like I developed a significant health anxiety as a result of this.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Because yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, so um anyway, so that happened. And I was just kind of dumbstruck because I was like, I don't know what that was, I don't know, you know, but it was weird, it was strange. Well, then I went back to the office and um I didn't feel well all afternoon. It was like coming and going all afternoon. I mean, this was the Monday after the Friday that that all that kind of other stuff had happened, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:41

So yeah, it sounds to me like your nervous system got dysregulated.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

I don't know. So I had to go, I just had started my new job like a couple months before. Okay. Also had just found out that um the girl that I was supposed to be her supervisor, she ran all the accounts at at our so it was an attitude before it merged with relevance. And she was running all the accounts. Well, I figured I'd learned that she was quitting, and so um therefore I was going to have to take on all the accounts, and I had just started, and so I think that was another thing that was like oh my gosh, you know, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm gonna have to take over all these accounts, and you know, yeah, that would definitely be anxiety inducing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Especially for a perfectionist, yeah, somebody wanting to do a good job. Well, yeah, you don't want to let anybody down who want to be good at your job. That's super terrifying. And I kind of went through the same thing because I did account management at my last job, and that was my first experience, and it would it's overwhelming for anybody in an account account management. If you know anybody in account management or you're in account management, kudos. You need to hug you. Yeah, you probably need a hug, you probably need a mental health day. Probably, yeah, but you're doing amazing, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

And and that was incredibly stressful for me. So I remember coming back to the office that day and putting my feet up and laying down on the ground in in Lauren's office. Lauren's Lauren was her name, and because we had concrete floors and it were cold, and I had my feet up in the air, and I'm like, this girl just met me. She probably thinks I'm like absolutely crazy because I've only worked there for like a month or so.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah, like wow, this girl's gonna be great to well, and I'm sure that kind of gave you some form of anxiety too, because here you are just starting this job, and yeah, now it probably in your mind you're thinking they're thinking you're not capable.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Well, and what's even funnier about it is that as I look back, I see that like the things that were kind of leading up to this, which like you know, my job prior to the one that I have now. Um, so I I worked for 11 years at um at a in a corporate environment, and that was incredibly stressful, and it so much so in the last year that I was there, uh, which was right before I started this job that we're talking about um here, was I had shingles twice. What? Yeah, like because I because I was so stressed out. Did you have chickenpox as a kid? I can't remember how that works. I did. Okay, yeah. And so, you know, I'm at the time I'm what 34-ish. Okay. You know, that's kind of like young to be having shingles, so that should be like sending like alarm bells, like, oh, you got some something going on.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I'm stressed who had shingles in their 20s while they were pregnant, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

So my body was, I'm I guess at the end of the day, what I'm trying to say is my body was trying to like tell me. Your body was talking to, yeah. Yeah, but I was just body coops the score. I was ignoring it because that's how I roll, you know, I just keep going and going and going. So eventually I'm here to tell you people if you don't address the anxiety, your body's gonna address it for you. Yeah. So we could have a whole episode on avoidance and what happens, your body well, and the effects of your body of stress.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Well, that's kind of actually a big part of my story is how trauma, stress, anxiety is actually greatly affect affected my developmental growth. And yeah, I have autoimmune disorders.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Well, it's it is, it's your body is just a reflection of your mind, yeah, and your environment. So much in your environment, yeah. So so for me, that's yeah, that's what happened. And then after that first initial um episode, a couple of days later, it happened again.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Where were you?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

You know, the second time I think I was at work, and um, the problem was is that when it would happen, it would start happening every couple hours.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

So your nervous system was definitely just dysregulated.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, so so I think there was a mixture of things going on. Um, you know, we've talked about the whole pots thing as well, and you know, so I think there was a little bit of a physical component and then a little bit of the anxiety component, and they were very much feeding into each other. Um, and so what started to happen is it started to go from like once a week for a couple weeks to those first two episodes were kind of close, but then it was like once a week, and then it then all of a sudden it would go to once every couple days, and then it would go to every day, and then it was like I could I was on such high alert at all times, afraid that when when the next one was gonna happen. I got to the point where I could barely even drive. I I was driving one day on the same exact path that we're driving right now, and what would happen to me while I'd be driving is I would start to just get it, it would happen. Heart would fall out of my chest, basically, would get extremely hot, get extremely dizzy, and then all of a sudden I'd start to see this black tunnel just you know get yeah, and just starting to black out while I'm driving. So that's a whole nother fear unlocked, by the way. Right. You're trying to drive, you know, you don't want to have this happen while you're while you're driving, and and you know, especially not on i70, that's a mess. No. So one day I was driving and it and by the way, in the meantime of all of this, I'm literally seeing every doctor for everything because I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on with me. Because I'm like thinking it's something medical at this point, right? You know, like I'm doing every test under the sun, I'm doing, you know, all the blood tests, I'm doing these full, I did this full body scan. It's like a thermo therm thermography or something, like to look for like, yeah, I'm like doing all these things to try to figure out like what is going on here, and nothing was showing up, like it, nothing, everything was normal, everything was coming back normal. So that was very disheartening, and it caused even more health anxiety because I'm like, I just need to know what's wrong with me, you know. And I and I didn't I couldn't tell you because nobody knew, right? And so um one day I was driving to work on this road and it it happened so badly that I was about to pass out and I had to pull over, and it was so scary because the cars are just rushing by, you know, I'm sitting on the side of the road, I can't hardly breathe. I, you know, I always had my my watch on my wrist to keep track of my heart rate, and my heart was like insanely fast. Um you know, I carried around a pull socks with me in the car because I needed to just see that I had you know oxygen because I couldn't breathe. It was like I couldn't breathe, and I have asthma, so it was like I was just it just was horrible. It was like every part of my body was just revolting on me. Okay, and so I actually called um 911 when I was on the side of the road because I'm like, this is like crazy. Like I I can't even drive at this point because I I couldn't even sit up, like I was like wanting to just black out um sitting there, and so they came, they picked me up off the side, you know, off the side of the road, and as soon as I got into the ambulance, um, they were like taking my vitals and stuff, and my blood pressure was like super high. And they were like, Hey, you you know, you need to like try to calm down, like everything in me was just like yeah, going nuts. My heart rate was crazy, my blood pressure was super high. Um, and you know, they they were trying to, you know, talk nice to me or whatever, but I don't think they thought that it was a panic attack either. Like, I really don't. I think they were like, dude, what is wrong with this girl? Right, there's something going on here. So um I go to the hospital, and they I think they were gonna put me into like an x-ray or something to see if like I had any kind of no, they did, I don't know, they did blood work. I remember that because the only thing that they found which caused me to go into more of a panic was that they were like, Oh, you know, you're you're the only thing um wrong right now is that your your D dimer levels are like way off the charts, and you can't understand why. And like that's if you know anything about medical, that's usually what like concerns them for when you have a blood clot. And um, which is interesting because that was one of the things that my friend that almost died had going on. Oh my gosh. That um DBT or something like well, it was like her heart was like throwing clots or something. I don't know. Oh, pulmonary levels, whatever. But it wasn't that, but it was like something like that. It caused OCD dimer levels to go up. So, like the exact same test that like started all of this anxiety is now in me high. So I'm in this hospital, and they're like, I'm like, Are you serious? Like, that could be the last thing I would like for you to say right now. You know, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Like of all things. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Why are you telling me that? So yeah, so that then they decided to send me to X-ray to check for plots or whatever. And and I remember asking them, I was like, Hey, do you guys have any anxiety medicine? Because I am not okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Like, did they come shoot you up with out of band?

SPEAKER_01 34:05

They I don't know what they put. I don't know. Is it an IV? Yeah, it was. It was probably out of band. Okay, so I think this was the moment that I realized I had an anxiety problem. You've got shot up with out of band. Because as soon as they gave me that, I was like, I'm good. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, okay, there's something else going on here. That's too funny. Yeah. So then, you know, basically there's they didn't find any blood clots, thank God. You know, that wasn't the issue. Still don't know why. I still am testing high on my, you know, inflammatory markers for whatever reasons. There's some some other, you know, but apparently severe anxiety and stress can also cause inflammation. Inflammation. So, you know, I think at the end of the day, my body was just really reflecting what was going on around me.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Um at the same time, well, yeah, especially if you don't know that it is anxiety, it becomes like this vicious cycle you can't get out of it. Oh my gosh, so bad.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Well, and then on top of it, I started to get to the point where um I couldn't be in any type of heat at all. So I was in the shower one day, and um I and actually, so this actually this was prior to the incident at McDonald's, but it didn't like click until later that I had been in the shower and I got too hot and I almost passed out and I had to lay down on the floor in my bathroom. And you know, I just thought it was I just got too hot or whatever. Right. Well, after I started getting more of these attacks, and I started, you know, experiencing more of this, you know, wanting to pass out. You know, I I I I remember one time I was at a um uh it was like an outdoor kind of carnival type thing, and Brady wanted me to watch him um on the swings. And I remember standing there in the sun, and I I could only be in the sun for like five minutes. Like I couldn't, I couldn't be in any type of like direct sun heat exposure at all. It would cause me to go into whatever this was, right? And that happened to me there, and I I after that I was trying to like keep it together, but he asked me to climb the stairs to go up the slide with him, you know, like the big slides. I got halfway up the stairs and I started like shaking uncontrollably, and I was about to pass out. I could not, like I could not go up any higher, and I had to go, you know, I had to give the stuff to John. I went to my car, turned up the AC, and just cried my eyes out in the parking lot because I was like, what is wrong with me? Like, why can't I just it together? Like, what is going on, you know? And and so um really there was other things going on too, and I didn't realize that, so it's kind of like this whole anxiety thing, but also come to find out the pots thing was also causing me this random heat sensitivity and um the tachycardia, all the things, and so it was kind of like this like self-fulfilling prophecy where it was like I became so hyper-aware of my physical state state, yeah, that anytime my pots would flare up, I would just lose it completely. And so it gosh, it was such a journey like figuring this out, and I can just say that like I've I have never felt so far from God in my life during that time. It was really painful, and I mean here's the thing like I was leading worship sometime, like still during this time, and there were there were times that I was up on stage and I was literally having a panic attack and trying to hold it together on the stage. I am not nervous about being in front of people. I sing, I speak, like that is not a nervous thing for me, never has been. But for whatever reason, this just would happen.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Well, it you know, it had less to do about outside factors and more about what was going on in you internally. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

And so I I remember um going to uh women of joy one year, and um Polly's mom, Rita, was in the car and I was kind of explaining to them you know what was going on and everything, and and so this would have been several months after it started because it started in like June of 2023, and so we would have gone to Women of Joy in October of 2023. And um I remember her, you know, when I told her that it was was happening during worship, um she said, Well, I'm glad you told me I'm gonna make sure that I pray for you every like while you're up there every time. Right. And I was like, Okay, like thanks, you know, that's nice to me. And I'd be danged if I haven't had it happen from that moment forward, never had it happen again up there. Had it happen everywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Well, I I obviously because she prayed for you, but I also think there's just healing and letting somebody know like what's going on, you kind of like relinquish some of that burden that's just that's been on you by kind of getting it out, you know, it's like bleeding the poison out of something.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

I mean, so much spiritual attack was happening to me at that time, like there's no doubt.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Well, I can definitely see that too with you. When did you start your nonprofit?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

That was 2019. 2019, okay. Yeah, I mean, but there was just so much growth happening during that time, and you know, I looking back, I can just see, but it was all just a part of my journey and and everything. But uh, you know, at the end of the day, I needed a lot of different things during that time. Like, I I I needed my friend Libby who talked to me on the phone every day on the way to work to help keep me calm. You know, she was a nurse in her past career, so like there was something about that that just like made me feel like she knew what she was talking about, you know. And you know, there was obviously I ended up getting into some therapy with with a Christian counselor, and that was so helpful to change some of my thought patterns. We've already talked about. Um, because here's the thing once you start, man, I just developed this obsession with my health, and it was like I could hear my heart beating in my ears, it was that obvious to me, and it was like, guys, you're not meant to hear that at full volume. Like, I just want to say you're not meant to hear your bodily things happening. That is very anxiety-inducing, it's really starting to think about it as like knowing like what all is going on in there. It's just you're not meant for that, and it's just I had just created this hyper-awareness around my health stuff.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Well, yeah, if you've lived most of your life not having these issues and one day they pop up, what are you supposed to think? Well, yeah, what are you supposed to think?

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Yeah, something's wrong. That's what you think.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Well, and we're living in interesting times where you know we've had like a pandemic. Like, this is not long after a pandemic, and everybody's kind of more aware aware of health in general.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah, absolutely. And uh, and yeah, so I mean, ended up seeing a cardiologist. That's a whole nother story for a whole nother day, but yeah, like you could advocate for yourself in in the healthcare industry so much. You do. Um, but I have we can have a whole story about that. Oh, I know, I know. And um ended up getting to a really good cardiologist, um, nurse practitioner, and uh realizing that I do have pots, you know, that are like an autonomic type dysregulation, and ended up getting on some medication for that, which started to help me in in some of the physical areas. Um, it wasn't completely catching everything, but it was you know, catching a lot of it. Um, at the same time, I also started on an anxiety medicine and and also an antidepressant because guys, like this time made me like super depressed, yeah, because I was just feeling so alone. I didn't think I was ever gonna get to experience life. I had been running religiously, like I was training for a half marathon before this all started, and I had to stop completely because I couldn't do I couldn't run at all.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

There's no way.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

I mean, I was running eight miles at that time pretty consistently, and like I just completely stopped cold turkey. So, like something that had been really important to me and a big part of you know who I am, it just stopped, and that was so hard. That is really hard. Um yeah, and it just I just felt like I was losing my like what you love, yeah. And so that was really hard for me, and so um, you know, in addition to the counseling, in addition to the you know, the medication, it it all started to kind of level out, and slowly it started to get better, but um but also you know it's been a real journey with the Lord as well, because I think so much of my personal struggles are rooted in control. Oh, yeah, you know, and Not for everybody, but you know, I think especially when I I talked about this on the um conversations with Genesis Church podcast, I told my story about panic attacks then. But um but anxiety is a really good barometer for your closeness with God. Now I don't want to be, I don't want to say that and be that taken out of context. But for me, when I have control as a basis for my anxiety, I start to ask myself, am I trying to be in control? Because when I try to be in control of things, that is when my life starts to spiral. That is when my anxiety starts to surface because I am not meant to be in control. But when I start to relinquish control, that is when I feel a burden lifted. You know, we are not meant to carry these burdens on our own. We're not meant to carry these burdens and try to just strong arm our way through it. You know, we need people in our life to lift us up. We sometimes need medical intervention in our life, medication, um, therapy. You know, we need these things that God uses in our life to lift us out of these situations. At the end of the day, my the the war was in my mind, like that was that was where the battle was happening, right? Was in my mind. And you know, because like we talked about with the trauma survivors, and this is why we separated this out because it's just a very different situation. Um, but for me, the more rooted I became in truth and in what God said about me, the less rooted I was in the lies that I created in my own mind.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

And so that makes perfect sense to me because it's very easy to get caught up in in what like what what is the world asking of me, right? And we know the world is not a soft place, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

It's not, and you know, there's all kinds of reasons that people can experience anxiety, whether it's within you, whether it's between two other people, whether it's because of environmental situations.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

There are so many reasons. Like my girls, they struggle with social anxiety, like very it's been a big thing for um mostly my youngest, but my oldest does too. And watching them struggle with social anxiety has been really hard for me. Yeah, it's just hard watching your kids struggle. Yeah, it's hard to watch your kids struggle like that and just be scared of people because that's where what a lot of it is fear of what other people are thinking. And uh it's also been hard for me in a different way because I don't experience that kind of anxiety, like I can completely talk in front of people or whatever, and and I I I don't I don't care what people think, so you know it's been hard in that aspect, but it's very real for them when when they're experiencing that.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Well, and I and I feel like by the way, this needs to be said as well that being anxious is not in and itself a sin. No, being anxious is an experience that you have to some sort of situational factor, and it's completely human normal and human to experience anxiety. In fact, I was look I was reading the Bible this morning and I was and I came across the verse that talks about how when Christ was in the Garden of Gethsemane before he was about to be crucified, he was sweating drops of blood. Did you know that that's a medical condition that is caused by extreme anxiety? Extreme. Well, there's no way he didn't have anxiety. Yeah, it's if that is a human emotion, and just like anger, it is a human emotion. Anger in and itself is not a sin, but just like anger, anxiety can also cause you to sin. Yeah, and so and so I think that the misunderstanding about anxiety is that you know, if you're anxious, that means you're not, you know, you don't you're not having faith. That's not true. You know, there might be some truth to the fact that you're looking, you know, you're you're you're focusing in the wrong areas because for me that that was true. Yeah. Because I was looking to myself more than I was, you know, I was trying to just fix it all myself. But at the end of the day, you can still have faith and be experiencing these normal human responses to this broken world that we live in. Right. And that and that is what I just want people to hear. Because right now, in the chaos of this world, we have to have compassion for each other.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Like we have to have understanding that you know we are only able to handle so much, you know, and this oh my gosh, I had to like take the news off of my phone. I had to remove, you know, unfollow all kinds of accounts on social media because if you let it, it will absolutely take over your heart.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

And you have to fill your mind and your heart with things that are gonna are gonna set your your mind on things above, like things that are good and and things that will bring you where you want to be mentally, and so yeah, I think I think my story is one that can just show you that this can happen to anybody. Oh, yeah, you know, anybody, and also you should know that this is something that you can absolutely overcome, and you know, do I still struggle with anxiety regularly?

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Absolutely, but you have better tools now, and I think that's the absolutely that's where it is the ability to, as the Bible says, take every thought captive.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

You know, the Bible has a lot of really great advice, by the way, about you know how to handle these types of things, and you know, taking every thought captive, um relinquishing control of certain things in my life to God, you know, understanding that I can't control the emotions of others or the situation or the outcome, you know, and that that that's okay. And so I think it's a lesson for all of us in the fact that you know, don't you could definitely give yourself grace in this and don't beat yourself up over the fact that you know you experience these things because these things are very normal, and you know, God just doesn't want that for us. He doesn't want us to, he doesn't want us to be in that place.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Well, and you know, for me, what I really learned in the last year growing closer to God and just going to Genesis is you know they that He wants us to be open and vulnerable with each other. It doesn't mean you have to get on a podcast like we are and share with the world, but find somebody that you can talk to. Yeah, and and you know, we're meant to share that with each other, we're meant to help carry that load, we're not meant to carry it all, right? At all.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Then God very much uses the body of Christ to help support and and in practice take those burdens and share those burdens. And the Bible does say that, you know, to do that, and so yeah, it's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

It is powerful, you know. In the last year that Kate and I's relationship has grown closer, I have also, you know, there's a whole group of women that I'm growing closer to, and they allow me the space to share these things that I've been through. And because of that, because I don't feel like I have to hide behind a mask and hide my feelings, I feel so much more peace and content in my life, and because I have more peace and content in my life, it helps me stay on a better, better path with God. Because if you're too busy dealing with all of these things, it's really hard to have a relationship with God because you're just trying to take care of you.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Yep. All right. Well, we are almost to work, so we are gonna cut this episode off for the day. But thank you for listening to my story, and I hope that it helps someone out there today.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

So, yes, and if you're watching this and you struggle with anxiety, give us a like if you want to share uh your confession as we're calling them. We have our form that you can use.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Yeah, and we'll link that in the description box as well for you. So we'd love to hear from you and we'd love to, you know, talk through it as well if that's helpful to you. So we thank you for listening today, and we will talk soon. Bye.