Friends by Default

Most of your friendships right now probably fit into one of four categories — and you already know which ones. On this episode of See Through, hosts Dev and Roger get brutally honest about the friendship patterns nobody admits to: the slow drift, the "obligation friend" you only see out of guilt, the one-sided dynamic that's draining you, and the friendship you wish you had but don't.

They dig into what it really means to outgrow someone, why your group chats quietly expose who your real friends are, and why learning to be comfortable alone might be the exact thing standing between you and finding your people.

Real talk. Real stories. And a motivational minute that'll have you texting this episode to the friend you've been meaning to check in on.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And welcome back, everyone. Hope everyone's having a good week, a good day. Uh, I'm Dev. And I'm Roger. And welcome back to See Through. If this is your first time listening, thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Thank you very much. We appreciate you all.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

We super appreciate you being here. If you've come back for another episode, welcome back. It's great to have you back. Are you all ready for this journey? You know what's interesting about this whole experience is it's kind of cool to meet some of you that have been listening to the show and immediately start talking about something as if we've already been having this conversation, even though we've actually never had this conversation. It's I think they call that a parasocial relationship. Yeah, that's my big word of the day. Parasocial. Noted. It's like where you see your favorite YouTuber or social media star and you you know them so intimately because they let you into their lives. Yeah. And then when you meet them, you know everything about them and they know nothing about you, but you have this relationship with somebody that, anyways. Before we were recording this show, Roger went and got a drink, and he asked me if I wanted one. And I told him we were gonna get some dinner after the show. I and I told him I was gonna have a diet coke, and I asked him if he knows what the kids of today call that. And I mean kids, like literally kids. So, in case you weren't aware, there's been a huge shift in the younger generation in walking away from alcohol. Did you know that? That I knew. Yeah, like alcohol sales are on the decline. Yeah, they're plummeting. Like all these big brands are like really concerned about how to get people to get excited about drinking. Anyways, what a lot of adolescent people do nowadays is they have a diet coke as their kind of supplement or as their like little pick-me-up, and they call that a fridge cigarette. Did you know that?

unknown 1:59

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

It's called a fridge cigarette. Yeah, you know what? I'll ask, I'll ask my kids about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Ask my kids that they'll be like, what do you call this? And it's a fridge cigarette. And it there's like a huge trend of people drinking a diet coke in like the normally when they would have go for like a smoke break, yeah, they would get a nice crispy Diet Coke. Yeah. What I've also learned, I don't drink that much soda, but I do mind a Diet Coke once in a while or a ginger ale. But what I've also learned is in Utah, yeah, I'm so bad with this stuff. In Utah, the state of Utah, there's a huge trend that's now coming over here, which are putting like milk and cream in sodas. They call those dirty sodas. Have you seen those? Have I seen those? You guys should see the look Roger's giving me right now. He's like so confused. Like, why are we talking about let me educate you on this?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yes, tell me, tell me.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah. Oh, you're I know what you're gonna say, but say it anyways.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I think this is a rip.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I know what you're about to say.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

My culture. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

The float culture.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

The float culture. Yeah. Not only the float culture. Yes. And for those of you that know me, grew up with me, or are from my family, you would know something called dod soda, which is milk soda. Direct translation. And so when we were kids, our mom or our dad or our aunt or our uncle, as a refreshment for us, would mix Coca-Cola and milk. Interesting. Or like a seven up and milk. What they would do is pour the pop into the container, stir it so it uh takes some of the carbon out of it, and then pour the milk in it, throw a bunch of ice cubes in it, pour us a glass, and we were all running around in heaven.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Well, basically that's what they call a dirty soda. Well, that dirty soda is not theirs to own. Yeah. So, well, that's I was having it in the 80s. Exactly. Well, it's been rebranded. So if you're listening to this, I hope you're enjoying a fridge cigarette or a dirty or whatever you just said. Um, anyways, what's our topic today, Roger? What are we gonna what are we gonna talk about today?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

You know, it's interesting. We've been on this journey, we've talked about a lot of things, but there is something that sort of came to light for me after you and I had a conversation, and I was just doing some research and I was reflecting on maybe my own personal relationships that are out there, and we're gonna tag it the friendship problem. The friendship problem. Why are adult friendships quietly falling apart? And why aren't we saying anything about it?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

I can't wait to get into this. I've got so many thoughts. This is an interesting topic, and I'll maybe kick things off here with maybe my perspective on friendship.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

And I'm not gonna claim this thought as my own, but I will say that once I heard it, it's become very deeply intertwined in how I think about any relationship, but we're just talking about platonic friendships in this episode, because I think when you add different types of elements to a relationship, it does change things a bit. But um I read this in a book once, which is any true friendship can survive three things exactly three things. And if you're lucky enough to find even one person in your lifetime that meets these three things, it it's the equivalent of you like winning a lottery. And so I'm curious. These are those three things. So a true friendship, a real friendship can survive time, yes, right? So however long you know you end up knowing this person, multiple year friendships, and that's why people always reference time when they introduce someone. I've known this person for 30 years, I've known this person my whole life, because that is a big deal. Like that is a hard achievement. So time, check mark, distance, because I've been the recipient, and I think I am also the uh giver of the king of proximity relationships and making them feel like they're real, but they're not. So I'm always buddy buddy with whoever's physically in my orbit, yeah, whether that's at work, at school, at you know, whatever social event I'm at. Not necessarily the right thing, but I think a lot of people confuse proximity relationships with actual friendships. So I agree with that. Distance is why that comes into play, is if you are a thousand miles away, or you know, you have these friendships that have lasted decades but have also lasted across continents, across countries. So time, distance, and my favorite one silence. What do you mean by that? If you really think about the strongest relationships that you have, the strongest friendships that you have, they don't require constant and needless communication. Why why do you think that is? Well, I think it's because they're not reliant on that constant need to reaffirm and make the other person feel like that they're important to them. I love that. For me, they've transcended validation. Exactly. Right. But that's super hard to do. Yeah, I've had so many people that have been like, yo, Dev, you haven't talked to me in like three months. So I thought we weren't cool anymore. And I'm like, has it been three months? I honestly thought it's been like a week or so because time flies, right? Everyone's in their own world, kind of figuring out things and trying to achieve whatever they're trying to achieve. And so if you're able to find anyone that can withstand time, distance, and silence, yeah, I think you've got a true friend. Couldn't agree with you more. And so I want to ground that with our topic around adult friendships. Yeah. Because I mean, we're gonna jump into kind of our experiences with it, but spoiler alert, they're hard because all three of those things, again, come into play in various forms as you get older and as you graduate through different stages of life, and everyone gets into a different stage at a different time.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Well, you know, if you take your time, distance, and silence and sort of mash them all together. Yep. There's I think when I think of my own friendships, my true, deep, deep bonded friendships, right? All of those things are absolutely true.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

You know, and Hardy, shout out to you, bro. I know you're listening and you listen to us weekly. I have friendships from back home in BC. We don't talk weekly. We may message once in a while, yeah, every couple of weeks. Or we do have this WhatsApp thread and we we converse about whatever stuff that's going on in our lives. But every time we see each other, it's like you just unpress the unpause button. Exactly. It's like no time is passed. No time has passed. It's a big hug. It's a what have you been up to? Hey, you look good, or maybe not, you don't look good. Right. Yeah, they're gonna call you on your show. They're gonna call you on your shit. But it is just basically unpausing the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah. And honestly, that's why it's so magical and that's why it's so hard to find. Yeah, especially once you become an adult because you have so many competing priorities, it's hard to build that kind of human connection with someone in a genuine way. And I think, especially now that the world is more disconnected, more fragmented, you know, I was even talking to Roger about this earlier today. You know, I recently transitioned into a work-from-home job, which I've never experienced in my lifetime. Yeah, my entire life up until this point, I am usually talking to hundreds of people uh constantly, and I'm meeting lots of people and I'm always interacting with people. And so to go from something that that's that's social to something that's so not social, isolated. I can see why for those that have never experienced that kind of social experience daily, how it can be so hard to muster up the courage to go up to someone or to strike up a conversation because you don't got any cool things to talk about. It's like you're in the same environment every single day. And it is becoming quite an issue because I've noticed a lot of my friends have associated their overall, I think, attitude towards themselves based on who they surround themselves with or whether they have people to be around. And I think a lot of people, I think before we jump onto the friendship thing, I think a lot of people don't know how to be satisfied being by themselves. Like they don't just want to be okay, just being okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah, I think you might have mentioned this in a previous episode quickly, just briefly. It wasn't on on this topic, but it was about just how many people don't like sitting idle. Yeah, don't like just stew in it, if you will, or spending time in their thoughts. I think a lot of people like to distract themselves because sometimes you're afraid of where your mind is going to take you. Yeah. Because sometimes you have to face the things that are actually in your mind and you don't want to, right? And coming back to this friendship topic and time and distance and all that, I think the ones that transcend all of that and the ones that actually mean something to you are also the ones where there's common relatability. And maybe the common relatability isn't on um a hobby. Yeah, maybe it's a mindset. Yeah. Maybe it's the culture you grew up in, maybe it's the way your upbringing was, maybe it's the community you grew up in. Absolutely. Right? Or the community you now belong to. So it becomes a little bit easier for you to navigate those relationships. You know, you talked about where do you go to make these friendships? And for me, I've had, you know, I've found myself having some free time on my hands. And so I've started to really immerse myself into the local car scene in the GTA. Yes, because then your passion is a good idea. It's one of my passions. Yeah, I enjoyed it. So, but I'm starting to actually take one of my builds and I actually registered it for a really major show that's gonna happen in um Milton, which is a small community to the west of me. But it's a it's called Oblivion Car and Culture Show. They're big, they're all over the world. And so I registered my car. I have to wait to see if they'll accept my car because that's how high-end it is. I don't I don't think I'm rolling my eyes. None of you can see this, but I'm rolling my eyes. I don't think it's gonna be an issue because the car I have is a 35-year-old classic car now. I think it's gonna easily get in and be accepted. Right. Um, but my point is I'm making myself super uncomfortable. I'm not gonna know anyone there.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I'm just gonna show you going solo. I'm gonna take my kids with me. Okay. And some lawn chairs. Sure. Because in the last episode, I talked about lawn chairs and socializing and bringing people into my circle. Right. So I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna park this car and I'm just gonna introduce myself to other people with cars. Yeah. And just start talking to them about the story behind why I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Well, yeah, I think like when you think of forming friendships, especially in your adult life, you do have to kind of go out of your way to put yourself in environments that give you the highest likelihood of actually bumping into someone that maybe has a similar interest, a similar perspective, a similar viewpoint on something. And I think a lot of people shy away from making that first move, you know, that, hey, you know what? I'm at this event, networking event, I'm at this golf course, I'm at this, you know, uh, I'm playing a sport of some kind, tennis court, basketball court, you know, so you know, soccer. And nobody wants to make the first move. Everyone is scared. Everyone is like, oh, I don't want to come off as somebody creepy or somebody weird. And honestly, I think a lot of people miss so many amazing connections because they're in their own head about it.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

You know, it's funny you bring that up. I had a conversation, a coaching conversation with somebody back, you know, somewhere in the career development phases. And we were talking about being an introvert, extrovert, and they were quite challenged because they were stepping into a leadership role. Yeah. And they were quite challenged in how to form new relationships with other leaders. Um, A, they were nervous, they were like, oh my God, this person's doing it forever. How do I break that sort of circle? And I gave them this advice of okay, listen, before you go into these relationships with all these aspirations, how are you by yourself? Do you know who you are? Because if you're gonna introduce yourself to somebody, make sure you're authentically yourself. So then they get a true read of who you are. Because one of their fears was judgment that, oh my God, I'm walking into this new role. These people are gonna think I'm not good enough. I don't have the skills. Why did I get promoted? And Bob over there didn't. And so one of the exercises I asked this individual to do, and it and and she did it. I asked her, Did you have you ever gone to a restaurant by yourself? Like, not I'm not talking like a fast food chain, I'm talking a proper sit-down restaurant by yourself, yeah, without anyone there, and just sat there and enjoyed a meal and enjoyed your own company. Yes. And the answer was no. Like, have you ever gone to a movie theater and sat in a movie by yourself and just enjoyed your own time? Again, the answer was no. I'm like, okay, why don't you in part of our little exercise of coaching and you know, mentor mentee relationship, I challenged her to go do both of those things and then come back and let me know how she felt afterwards. And I said, now you have a topic to talk to your peers about on something you just did that they may not have done just to break the ice. And the rest was history. She's like, Oh my God. Yeah. Both the exercises made it super easy for me. One, I had to really just stew in it and sit by myself and be like, this is super uncomfortable. And by the end of it, like, oh my God, the meal was amazing, and away I go. And then having an amazing topic now to break the ice with somebody she needed to build a relationship with.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

You know, I think a lot of people underestimate how powerful it is when you feel like you don't have to depend on someone to do something that you want to do. And if there's like a restaurant that you love and none of your friends like that cuisine, and then you start to resent them for it after a while because maybe you're like, man, we are always going to the places I don't want to go, and I never get to eat the food that I want to eat. Now, here's the magic part I find. I find the relationships and the friendships that you form with people that have figured that out of how to be good doing things by themselves are the most powerful because when you find another person that's just as chill doing something that they were gonna do, regardless of whether you came or not, when you do come and when you do find that click and that connection, it goes next level because you were already on cloud nine, gonna do whatever you were gonna do when you were gonna go watch that movie. Yeah, if you find somebody that was also already on cloud nine and you both do it at the same time, it's like it's exponential.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Well, that relationship transcends the learning phase because you totally get each other right out of the gate.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

100%. And so I think there's something really not like I guess not straightforward in if you want to make more friends as an adult, you have to first actually be really good at not needing the friend in the first place. I love it. Because it actually makes you really accessible and it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like pressure, it doesn't feel like, man, I gotta really adjust myself to get this person to want to, you know, watch the game with me or go and have a drink and you know have a good time or you know, go uh to this event. And if I don't, whatever. Yeah, it doesn't even need to be anything, uh it doesn't need to be anything super up there. But I I do think that's not something that I see straightforward. And yeah, I think that that also causes a lot, it's like a weird thing. I think that causes a lot of these complexes in people to want to fit in.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

You know, I'm a firm believer. One of the mantras of Steve Jobs was to keep things simple, right? And it's really hard to do that, especially as humans, because we love to complicate things, especially relationships. But I firmly believe in this simplicity approach. If you can just keep the relationship simple, what do you need from it? And do you understand what the other person fundamentally needs from the relationship? And if you can always come back and meet there and keep it simple, listen, I'm not saying it's easy, but if you can remind yourself in the simplicity of why you enjoy this person's company, their friendship, and and sort of the commonality you have, it makes the relationship easier to navigate with time, distance, and silence.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Absolutely. Now, the other side to this coin, the other interesting conundrum that you may find yourself in, I know I found myself in this unfortunately too many times to count, is when you outgrow a friendship. So in adulthood, that happens a lot more frequently because if you haven't experienced this, spoiler alert, it's not fun and it happens so quietly that you don't even notice it happening. Yeah. Which is, you know, you may have a really close friend, somebody that you've had a lot of memories and really amazing experiences with through a variety of seasons of life. And you may hit a season where things slowly start to drift apart.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

It's funny you come up with that terminology. It is actually formally known as the drift. The drift. The drift. There's four friendship patterns that people are discovering now. And the question you have to ask yourself in each of these unique relationships are which one are you in right now with this relationship, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

All right, so what are the four? So the drift is the first one.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah, pattern number one is called the drift, right? The friendship that didn't end, it just faded or slowed.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

All right, and so if we were to focus on that before we get to the other three, I think the thing that I've noticed that kills the most amount of friendships are when two different people are in two different stages of life, and one of them thinks that's a problem. Right. One of them thinks that's a problem. And the reason I say that is I remember I I've had I've I'm actually really terrible at having friends and keeping friends. So I don't even know if you should be taking my advice, but here's my advice. I found the friendships that have been the least successful in my life have been the ones where another person feels like they shouldn't be my friend, or feels like because I'm in a different stage of life, whether it's I now have a child, whether it's now, you know, I'm I've got my career figured out while they're still kind of going through school, whatever the case may be, that that should be a separation because we may not be as relatable as we once were. And that's the the really tricky part because there's a component of that that's true, because the problems that I'm experiencing today are very different than the problems that they're experiencing. So that's factually correct. But what's not correct is we're still connected on a deeper, more fundamental level, which I think is still worth exploring. But drifts happen all the time and they're always really painful because nobody really wants them to happen. It's just kind of that natural ebb and flow of life, in my opinion. Yeah, because nobody really did anything wrong.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yeah, exactly. You just kind of drifted away, the thread got thin, and it comes kind of back to my boat analogy in a pond and not rocking each other's boat. Yeah. While you're actually in this pond in your boat and you're just drifting it off, floating away, floating away, and nobody's doing anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah, and I think that's the for me, those are the really sad ones because I hate looking back at someone that I felt like honestly was like one of the closest people that knew everything about me. And it's hard for me to accept that I can't pinpoint exactly why me and that person aren't the way that we used to be. It's actually a really, it keeps me up at night sometimes because I like to figure things out and like, ah, how did that happen? So I make sure it doesn't happen again. But it's one of those things hard to explain.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

You know, I love this thing about the patterns we're gonna discuss right now. So we've talked about the drift, but as we navigate through the patterns, pattern four is gonna be fundamental and it kind of comes back to the drift. Okay, you got over there? Yep. Okay. Sorry, I knocked my mic, my bad. Can I talk to pattern number two? Okay, what's number two? The obligation friend, you know, the person you keep in your life because of history, not because of how you actually feel about the relationship. Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Uh, you know, this isn't I actually don't have I I'm trying to think. I don't think I have any obligation friends. Do you have any obligation friends?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I don't have any obligation friends at all. I'm actually and I never have in my life.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, I don't, I don't actually there have been moments, if I had to be really honest with myself, that maybe I was being friends with somebody because again, proximity. You felt like, hey, I have to get along with this person for things to move along to to get what I need. So it's a bit deceptive, to be honest. Hopefully, you don't. Have any, but I would say obligation friends are usually the ones where you feel like you have to be friends with them. I've seen this happen, not directly to me, but to people around me, which is they're friends with someone because there's like a kind of a circle of friends, and they kind of have to be friends with someone to stay in this circle. Yeah, and they don't want to be out of the circle because then they got no friends. So it's kind of like it's like a real life version of Survivor, yeah, which I love by the way. Um, you don't want to get voted off this little friendship island. Yeah, obligation friends are really, really tricky, and they're consuming. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Because it it takes energy to put on a like you know the term you're always having to be on, yeah. That is draining, and you're not authentically being yourself. Yep. And now you're smiling when you don't want to smile, you're letting them into spaces you don't want to let them into.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

And so, you know, my the short to that is the obligation friend is gonna consume you, so you might as well do what the right thing is for both of you. Yes, because they're afraid to do it and you're afraid to do it, maybe have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Well, you know, you know the most hilarious part. Here's how here's how I know if you have an obligation friend. If you are in a group chat with a group of friends, and then your group of friends has a separate group chat without one person, that person that's not in the group chat is the obligation friend. You got it. Easy.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Okay. Pattern number three. All right, number three. The one-sided friendship. Friendship where one person is always reaching, always initiating, always giving more energy, and it's just not reciprocating.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yes, yes. Okay, this actually this one I think is the closest one that also relates to a romantic relationship as well. You see these one-sided experiences. Okay. But here's my take on this in general for any relationship you have in your life. I think there's a difference between force and effort. For sure. I think a lot of people force things, but they don't put effort into things. And here's how I define that. If you are always trying to, you know, get that other person to text you first, or you know, always make sure that that you're always trying to force somebody to, you know, ask about you, check in on you, you know, make make you feel important, versus if you just try to own your own actions and put effort, the people that matter, the people that are gonna last time, distance, and silence, they'll put in effort very naturally. It doesn't actually feel forced. Yeah. And I think if you're in a one-sided like kind of friendship where you feel like you're the one that's always instigating conversations or you're the one that's always forcing the con the meetups or the touch points, well then again, it's not sustainable. And you have to ask yourself, find people that put the same amount of effort that you put in, meaning. If you put in no effort, then you can't expect the other person to put in a lot of effort. Yeah, and vice versa. And I think that's the magical act of any relationship is you both parties are putting in the same amount of effort or compensating, and that's okay as long as it's not permanent. Can I give a bit of a debate?

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, okay, what's your sort of a perspective? Uh maybe an opposite sort of take. Two people aren't identical.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Okay, so my level of effort may not be exact the same as your level of effort. Sure. So I do fundamentally agree with you to not force the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

And effort from both parties needs to be put in. But the type of effort and the level of effort will be varying. And here's why I say that. Well, some people are more giving by nature than others. Yeah. Not to say, you know, the other person might be a strict taker, but maybe they're just not as top of mind. Your well-being in this moment is always just top of mind because I have so many things going on. I'm not thinking like you. I know natural people who don't let anything else interrupt them. But if you are with them, you are the main character in their moment. Right. And everything revolves around are you good? I'm going to put in all this extra effort, I'm going to reach out to you. So knowing who you are and the relationships you have in the type of effort each of you is going to put in, I think needs to be identified as well. But I do agree with you, effort needs to be put in both ways, but the degree of effort doesn't necessarily have to be equal. It just needs to exist for the relationship to still be there.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

You know, it's interesting. As you're saying that, what I'm thinking about is there is a varying level of effort also, if we go back to what we were talking about earlier, where something that may seem like low effort to you based on your current situation may be really high effort for somebody else. And you know, an example I would use is if you really look at everyone's life situation or dynamic, you know, let's say you have a friend that doesn't have a car and you're wanting to do something that requires a lot of travel. Well, if that person makes the effort to show up even for a little bit of time, knowing that they have to catch a bus or train home, that's a much bigger deal to me than somebody that could show up and stay 100%. And for me, it's like I think you also have to take in the totality of the amount of effort that that person's putting in. And I hate that I'm having this realization as I'm saying this out loud. I love it. This is the realization I'm having right now. I obviously am from Indian descent. Roger is also from Indian descent. This is, I think, unfortunately, why all of our parents always made an effort to show face at every event on planet Earth. Yep. Even if it's for someone that they only know and they actually don't even like because they're an obligation, friendship. That's right. And they would still put the effort into, you know, and I remember my mom would say this all the time. I'd be like, Mom, I don't even like this family. I don't even think they know my name. And she would always be like, No, but we still need to show up. We still need to make the effort to at least say hello, take the picture, stand at the front, give them the envelope, make sure you eat, because those are things that culturally go a long way. 100%. And I get it now. Yeah. Because that's effort. That's effort. And that's how you maintain a relationship. Even though, I mean, I think a lot of Indian dynamics are toxic in nature, but same proof of concept.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

100%. Same proof of concept. Yeah, you got it. What's number four? Number four, the friendship you want but don't have. Okay. This is the hardest one to admit as friendships. You want, but you don't have. Okay. Many people are quietly lonely.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Not because they have no friends, but because they don't have the kind of friendships they actually need. Oh, yeah. Right? So deep ones, real ones. Right. The kind where you can say something is hard and not feel like it's a burden you put on that person.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

I've I've heard people describe this. It's like being in a room full of people and still feeling like completely alone. Yeah. Because everybody around you, you don't feel safe with, you don't feel psychologically safe with, you don't feel like you can really be your own vulnerable self. You don't feel like you can quote unquote let your hair down.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Well, you kind of mentioned it because they'll typically fall into either pattern one, two, or three in that setting. And that's why you still feel alone.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

But you kind of prefaced it when you were giving the example of when you meet somebody who loves just their own space and they can be anywhere at any time. And that is also you. And when those two people come together, it's kind of like effortless. Yeah. And you just feel each other. I always call it the wave, the wavelength when you're on the same riding the same kind of wave kind of thing. Yeah. And you don't have to say anything. You look at each other, you're like, that person gets me. Yeah. That person's, yeah. It's just an easy conversation. Yeah. You don't have to be something you're not.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yeah. And honestly, I think if you think of the best relationships you have in your life, I don't think anyone can pinpoint exactly how they made that happen. Yeah. But if you are in that situation, and I'm sorry if you are, hey, listen, it's never too late to again do something about it in terms of putting yourself either in an environment or like we started the episode in is maybe start to remove yourself and get really comfortable being satisfied being alone, and then you'll start to attract the right audience into your orbit.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Yeah. You know, if I can touch back on the drift component, I think some drift is also healthy. Oh, yeah. Right? Yes. Like things are going to change, you evolve, they evolve. Yes. Life evolves, holding on to friendships out of guilt, history, that's all draining. And I think in some moments the drift is going to be natural and it's going to be okay. But I think what we're yearning for, and what the adult sort of conundrum in building new friendships is when those drifts happen, because let's be honest, as you go through the decades of your life or the seasons of your life, more and more drifts are going to happen. But have you replaced the drifts that have happened? Or do you want to replace the drifts? But I think, well, that's really good. That's a really good point you just made because as you get older, you become more defined in who you are. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I know a lot of old people, like I I get it now. Old people, like old people, people that are aged, people that are in their you know later in life.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

They don't like people, they don't like being around people.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Let me clarify. Yes, yeah. You should probably clarify. I should clarify. Yeah, it's not that they don't like people. Yes. I think defining what we just defined in friendships and energy use and consumption, it's they are really mindful and strategic and they value their time. Yes, they do value. That is a good way to put it. You don't want to waste any more of your time. That is fair. And I think that's where as you age, yes, your circle gets smaller because you're just tired of wasting your energy.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

But you know what's magical is if people had the same mentality that they would have at 70 and how they thought about their time, but at 25. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Well, well, that's why at 25 you do the things you do and you don't do those things at 70.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

But I'm telling you, I think if you were to be able to change that mentality, I think it would change your life at any point. But the younger you do it, I think the the the bigger return on that investment.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

So maybe listening to the elders and their life stories and experiences is beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Again, it's super annoying. It's super annoying. I was always of this proponent of man, these people that are much older than me, they have no idea. But the hard part is how do you make that relatable to someone that hasn't had that experience? Because it all comes from a good spot. It's just sometimes the way it's positioned or articulated, I think we sometimes lose the audience. So listen, if you're out there, if you've got friends, if you don't have friends, if you want friends, if you don't want friends, I think wherever you live on this spectrum, know that you're not alone. I think everyone's kind of figuring this out as we go. We're all in it. And so, with that, as we wrap up today's episode, uh I just wanted to thank you for listening. Uh, if you know anyone that could really benefit from this episode, please feel free to share it with them. Um, and if you loved what we're talking about, we'd really love a quick rating or comment. It goes a really long way. And so, with that, I'm gonna tee up Roger to take us home with our motivational minute, and we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

You know, I want you to think about something for a second. Right now, as you're listening to this. Is there somebody in your life that you haven't spoken to in a while? Maybe it's been weeks, maybe it's been longer. And if you're honest, I mean really honest, you miss them. You've thought about reaching out probably more than once, but something keeps stopping you. Maybe you think too much time has passed, maybe you're not sure of what to say. Maybe you're waiting for the right moment, and somehow that right moment just never arrives. Here's what I want you to hear today. The right moment is right now. Because here's the thing about real friendships the ones that actually matter. They don't require a perfect opening line, they don't require an explanation for the silence. All they require is one person willing to go first, right? And that person can be you today. So after this episode, I want you to do one thing. Just one. Pull out your phone, find that name. You already know the one that you want to look at, and send them something. It doesn't have to be long, it doesn't even have to be deep. Just let them know you were thinking about them because you actually were. The world gets loud, life gets full, and people, real people who matter to us, can quietly disappear into the noise if we let them. My ask is don't let them. You've got more to give than you think. And somebody out there, they need to hear from you today. So go be that person for them. And we'll see you next week.