We Judge Louder Than We Listen

We judge others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions. That one idea is the foundation of this episode of See Through, and once you hear it, you cannot unsee it. Dev and Roger take on one of the most universally human yet rarely examined behaviors we all quietly engage in every day: judgment. Inspired by the viral social media trend of listening without judging, the two get honest about how snap judgments form before someone even walks into a room, why being triggered by others often says more about our own unresolved experiences than anything the other person did, and what it actually looks like to respond instead of react in the moments that matter most.

The conversation goes deeper into one of the most uncomfortable questions in any honest discussion about judgment: is there a difference between judging a bad decision and judging someone as a bad person, and does frequency or severity change that line? Dev and Roger explore cancel culture, the cost of polarized thinking, and why so many people now keep their most honest thoughts private out of fear of being permanently defined by a single moment. The episode closes with a motivational minute reminding listeners that the goal is not just to get what you are chasing, but to become someone worthy of keeping it, growing it, and sharing it. If you have ever reacted before you had all the information, or held someone else to a standard you would never apply to yourself, this one is for you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back, everybody. Uh, it's great to have you with us today. Welcome to See Through, the show where we love to discuss a variety of topics to give you a different perspective on everyday things. I'm Dev.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

And I'm Roger.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

And uh I just wanted to start this episode off as we usually do, um, just expressing our gratitude for y'all even tuning in and listening. Uh, the response has been really positive and overwhelming and honestly very humbling. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yeah, it's been great. And you know, some of the feedback that we're receiving is across the country as well. So I have a lot of um family, friends, a pretty big network back home in BC. Yeah. And I know a lot of them have been curious of what it is that I'm posting. And so they've been listening. And over the last couple of days, I received some feedback, right? Positive on what people love about the show and where they're actually challenging us a little bit to go deeper into some of the topics and and not to be like over the top, but at least express a really honest, raw perspective on things and go deeper so it allows people to resonate with it and and or see a perspective that they may not be aligned to holistically.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah. And I believe what you'll start to maybe experience is us being a bit more open, a bit more vulnerable as we also get this is kind of a new process for us. So thank you for even bearing with us as we kind of figure this out. But we're thinking through how we are going to design our episodes in the future and and really adjust based on the feedback that we're getting. So please keep it coming. And it would mean a lot to us if you're not following the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to the show. We'd really appreciate a quick follow. Yeah. Um, and if you and if you're loving what you're listening to, we'd love for you to give us a piece of feedback, a rating. Um, it really helps grow the show. It also helps us kind of validate and know that we're doing the right thing. So thank you in advance. Now, with that, before we jump into today's topic, uh, I'd love to just know, Roger, how you doing? What's new in your world? What's going on in your week?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, you know, since our last time together recording an episode, um the temperature's risen. Yeah. I don't mean just in my life. I mean physically the temperature in Ontario has gone through the roof. And obviously FIFA's happening, so that's been keeping us busy. But the last two days, the humidity, it's been reading, you know, 29, 30, 33 on um on the temperature gauge, but I think with the humidex, it's closer to 40, 42 degrees, and it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, it is hot. I think there's a heat warning. It's really strange because obviously when it's winter, you want days like this. Yeah, for sure. And then when it's days like this, what is so fascinating is everybody's everyone, nobody wants to go outside. It's like this is what you've been waiting for, especially if you live in Toronto, because we get very few months of nice weather and the rest of the year. Yeah, the rest of the year is just terrible for the most part, and we had a really rough winter. But uh, yeah, it's a pretty hot day. And actually, speaking of that, normally when we record the show, we usually record it at either of our houses, and we usually turn off all kinds of like audio things in the background, think like air conditioning, TVs, like anything that creates any amount of noise. Today we've left the air conditioning on. So if you hear that throughout the episode, I we apologize, but we I don't we don't have the discipline to record this in fully because I don't want to be sweaty. Yeah, I mean that, and then I've also had situations where I've heard some friends who've told me that they've been working outside and like their computers are literally overheating and shutting down and like their phones are overheating. So anyways, stay hydrated, stay safe. Um, and yeah, the FIFA tournament, that's something I've been really tuning into as well. There's been right now at the time of the recording, we're still in the round of 32. Yeah, and yesterday uh we had some really, really amazing matches um and some big upsets as well in the last couple of days with Germany going out early. Shock. That was Paraguay deserved that win, but that was. That was a big shock. And then defense came. I don't know if you watched the Morocco Netherlands. I sure did. Man, that was uh that was maybe the most entertaining shootout I've maybe ever seen in soccer.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

How do you hit how do you hit the post that many times?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

And then the saves, and then even I think I don't know the name of the goalie on the Netherlands, but he saved it, but it went through his hands. Like he was right there.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

His hind leg actually kicked it back into the net.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

He's not gonna get good nights of sleep for the rest of his life. Honestly, I'd be replaying that in my mind for the rest of my life. But um, yeah, the tournament is amazing. Also, it's nice to see Toronto represented, North America, Mexico represented. It's it's nice to be a host city, but um, yeah. Now, in terms of our topic today, uh, one of the things that we wanted to explore, and and I'm sure if you've been on social media and you've maybe seen this, there's like a really fun trend that's going around and it kind of evolves and it kind of takes on different versions, but it really boils down to the same thing, which is judgment. Yeah. And so if you've heard that, like we listen, but we don't judge, I really have enjoyed those videos because what I find most refreshing are people are just being honest about their thoughts, feelings, and opinions. Yeah. And they're getting permission from the person that they trust, that they respect, that maybe they have a good relationship with to just not judge them for it and to actually just accept whatever that thing is. And I've heard some actually really like powerful things shared in these trends, and then also just some funny ones like you know, unique quarks people have, which is totally fine. But that really stemmed kind of my thought around, I think it's really important to talk about how we look at judgment and some of the layers around that. Because I know we've experienced judgment positively and negatively in our family life for sure, in our relationships for sure, and 100% in our social circles and work circles. And so I think it's a good topic to talk about your approach to judgment, how you actually think about judgment. And so we'll get into it right after this break. All right, well, welcome back. Now, to get us started, I wanted to take you through where my mindset started with this topic when we were preparing to discuss this today. There's a quote that I read, and I'm not big on like, let's start the podcast with a quote because I think it's a bit preachy, but stick with me here because this is this is actually a really good quote, in my opinion. There's a quote that I read that I think really encapsulates my initial kind of framework around judgment, which is we judge others based on their actions, but we judge ourselves based on our intentions. I like that. I'll say that one more time. We judge others based on our actions, but we judge ourselves based on our intentions. And so what really stuck out to me is when I read this quote, it was in an article, I'll try and link it in the show notes. But one of the examples that it gave that I thought was so realistic and it really resonated with me, because I've seen it a hundred million times in my life, is you're driving on the highway, you're driving down the street, someone cuts you off. Yeah, you're swearing at them, you're honking at them, you're yelling at them because their action endangered your life. And so your judgment is that they're a bad driver. Sure. You saw something. You saw something, they did something that impacted you negatively. Their action was, hey, they did not think about your safety, your experience, they didn't check their blind spot, whatever the case may be, and that bothered you, and so you're upset and you're judging them for it. Okay, I'm with you so far. The funny part of that is we've all cut someone off at some point in our driving careers. I've not met a single driver inadvertently, even because they've missed a turn or you know, maybe they didn't realize a lane was ending, whatever the case may be. They forgot to indicate it happens, they forgot to check their blind spot, it happens. But when they cut off the person and that person is honking at them and like they're getting honked, normally the driver is like super chill. They're usually like, yo, relax. Like it's not that big of a deal. Like you need to come up. Like you wave, you're like, yo, like take a chill pill. You could almost see that as an overreaction because you know your intention was not to cut that person off, was not to make that person feel unsafe, was not to cause any danger. It was genuinely an accident, a miscalculation. So you don't give yourself that same level of intensity, but it's so interesting because on one drive, you could be in either of those positions. You could be the person that's getting cut off, you could be the person that is doing the cutting off, and your reactions are polar opposite, even though it's the exact same account.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I love that example. And the definition of the intent word in there, right? Because you understand your own intent, but you don't understand their intent. Yes. I think you nailed it square on the head, right? It's to really put yourself in the other person's shoes. My reaction to your action is based on where I am in my mind. Exactly. But your action is based on where you are in your mind. Exactly. Right? But so I don't know the situation. I don't know what you're going through, where your mind is. Maybe there's a family emergency and you're rushing somewhere. Totally. And you're not because you're choosing to ignore the rest of the world, it's because you're so hyper-focused on what it is that your intent is to get to wherever you need to get to in such a rush. You don't look around and you make a mistake. And here I am now sitting in my car, having a visceral reaction to your mistake and not giving you that forgiveness, even though when I do it myself, I'm quite chill about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Well, so here's, I think I I'm glad that you're aligned. Because one of the things that I feel very strongly about is in this kind of circumstance, versus like action and intention, for me, from a judgment perspective, as we think about we listen and we don't judge, I actually think the action should trump all. And I feel that way because a lot of people, I think, give themselves excuses because inevitably they know that they didn't mean to do something or that their intentions were correct or what they felt were pure, but ultimately the outcome of whatever their action was was negative and they try to kind of justify it to themselves based on their intention. And I'd love to live in a world where people actually thought deeply about their actions. Sure. First and foremost. That's a big ask. A huge ask. But I I think it starts with yourself, is like every time you show up in any situation, if you don't show up to the best of your ability, I think a lot of people are very nice about like nice to themselves about it because they're like, oh, I I was gonna try harder. No, actually, you didn't. Like you should be a bit tough on yourself there. You should judge yourself a bit harder if your actions didn't translate well to your intentions.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Isn't that accountability? Maybe you should hold yourself accountable to the situations and then the outcomes of those situations. That's how I see it, right? And so I love this concept of look at yourself, hold yourself to a degree, and before you make judgment on others, ask yourself, what would I do in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah. Or if you're not gonna do that, then you also have to give people grace to ask them what their intention is before you. So it's kind of like you have to go one of these two ways. I don't like when people are very critical of others based on their actions, but then if they kind of do the same thing, it's like no problem. Then you've got to be no problem with that person. Like you have to balance that. I think it's actually very I think you create a lot of negative energy in your life if you have this imbalance, this judgment thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I I'm 100% aligned with you. I have this belief that it's a two-way street. Yeah. Right. So, and listen, we're gonna give some examples of what it feels like when we pass judgment and the counter to that, what it feels like when we receive judgment in a second. But I have this notion of a two-way street. And this has happened to me in my professional life, in my personal life, more often than I probably would have liked it to happen, but that's just human nature. We like we like conflict for some weird reason. The ask of me is to meet you halfway.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Okay, so if I've got a perspective and I'm sort of locked into my thinking and I think I'm right, well, when I'm debating something with someone, the expectation of me is to come to them where they are to understand from their perspective or at least meet them where they are. But it's never a sort of a joint, rarely, maybe not never, but rarely is it a joint approach to, hey, you know what? You have a polarizing perspective than I do. Can we meet somewhere in the middle? And I think that's where the judgment happens because we don't expect each other to meet in the middle. We expect the other person to come all the way over to where we are to understand our intent. Totally. So they should flex who they are completely, forget about their belief system, their value system, and just come meet me where I am to make me feel good. Correct. Right? And then, and then we can, you know, lock arms and walk happily down the path versus saying, hey, you know what? I get it, Dev. This is something tough for you. You're gonna meet me somewhere in the middle. I should do the same, put down my guard and change my perspective, or at least put the perspective to the side and meet you in the middle somewhere as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, I think this middle currently does not exist. I agree. I can find it. That's okay. I think for the most part, everyone is very strong on sticking to one side of any problem. Now, listen, there are certain problems that it's very one-sided. Like there's no, like if anyone's being harmed unnecessarily, if any calamity is happening, natural, like very clear, very one sided. Agreed. But there's so many things that I think have way more nuance. Yeah. And it's like if you don't agree with me 100%, we just we don't, we're not polarizing. We're not it, we we can't vibe, we can't jibe. And I think there's something fascinating about that because for me, when somebody has judged someone for having an opinion that's different than them, what that actually tells me is that they actually didn't form their own opinion. Yeah. Like they didn't come to their own opinion themselves. Like everyone that I've talked to, and you know, I've had multiple conversations with multiple people around various hot topics, whether it's the environment, politics, sure, you know, um, even like as most recently, like, you know, some of the the conversations happening around the um LGBTQ uh kind of um experience and and what we have at schooling and various things like that. And so what I find is people that are effectively not willing to talk and not willing to kind of see different perspectives are usually judging anyone that has a different opinion of them as not having the same morals, having the same value system. Because it makes sense. If you meet someone that has a very different perspective, your immediate jump to conclusion is they're opposite from me.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I think that's a cop out.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yeah, but I think that's what a lot of people do is they cop out. They don't understand that you could have the same value system, but it expresses differently. Absolutely. And I think that's the real Well, that's interpretation. Well, that's judgment, in my opinion. Like you're judging somebody's value system based on their viewpoint on a singular subject, but also not allowing people to see that like you can kind of judge in multiple different ways.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah. For me, it's um it's the word trigger, right? For some reason, we get triggered by someone's thought, expression, choice of words, maybe they used, versus really understanding beforehand their value system, where they're coming from, what their intent is to say or do the thing they're doing. We are quickly triggered because for some weird reason, yeah, that's what our society has said. Hey, it's okay to be triggered and walking around and judging everyone based on one thing, not who they are, based on one thing. And that's where I think a lot of this polarizing behavior is coming from, specifically when you think of left-wing, right-wing politics. Totally. You identified the, you know, LGBTQ plus community sort of, and it's not the community as a whole, but some people's viewpoints of where they are, and from an acceptance perspective, and then the polarizing viewpoint of, hey, listen, I have a different perspective or value on that. Yeah, I don't see it from that. And it's forcing each other to understand or at least accept wholeheartedly without question where the other person is coming from. And I think for a lot of us, we naturally have questions when we don't understand. And what we're saying in this moment is it's not, you cannot, you don't need to understand, you just need to accept. And that I don't know that that morally fits well with the majority of us out there.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Well, that's why I think this trend is so viral, because the whole trend is you listen to someone and you don't you don't form an opinion of them no matter what comes out of their mouth. Yeah, and they say ridiculous things that they're actually thinking, they're actually feeling. And for me, I think the other side of this coin around triggers and and recognizing that internally is I I meet very few people that are able to articulate to me the last time they judged something or someone incorrectly. Right. I'm shocked that more people, if you were to go up to them and even ask yourself as you're listening to the show, when was the last time you judged something wrong? And if you don't have an immediate answer in like less than 30 seconds, I need to tell you like you're not being critical enough of your belief system because you're so stuck in trying to validate your own perspective and your own opinion. Because what are the statistical odds you could be a hundred percent correct a hundred percent of the time on judging a hundred percent like it is impossible. Well, I can think of like five examples off the top of my head of like, oh, I thought that was this person was actually gonna show up this way, but they actually showed up the opposite. I judge them based on an arbitrary thing and I'm learning from that and I'm trying to grow from that.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Well, if you're not willing to flex your perspective and you're sort of digging your heels in, that's ignorance, isn't it, by definition? Totally because you're not willing to learn or or see from a different person's viewpoint. And that can go to either side of the equation, right? Whatever your viewpoint is, if you're on this side or that side, if you're not willing to flex or gain understanding of why the other person is, who they are, and believe and see the things they think, well, you're ignorant on either side of the equation. It doesn't matter where you're standing when you're that closed-minded. That by definition is what we're trying to overcome as a society, I thought. Yeah. Is to be accepting of each other. Okay, well, if my viewpoint is different than yours, then why aren't you accepting that the fact is I just think and feel differently than you do, right? And I think for me, the real question is to ask yourself is not to what are you doing or what are they doing to me. More importantly, is where is what they're doing taking me? Right. So there's a there's a line of definition there. Their behavior is doing something, but that's just who they are. Maybe that's their behavior. But where it's taking me, I think is where we need to start looking and and deep diving and really figuring out why is this triggering me so much?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Yeah. And so even what you were saying reminds me of another, I think, core concept when you think of judgment. And these judgments don't need to be like these big things of like these like, you know, philosophical opinions or you know, um specific opinions on on various hot topics. They could even be things about how you think somebody's living their life or how you think they're showing up for you in any situation, whatever the case may be. But off of that topic, I I I think a lot about how do you respond versus reacting. And so when you you said that about you know, what do they bring out in you? There are certain people that force you to react. Sure. And then there are four certain people that allow you to respond. Yeah. Well, some of those people are looking for a reaction. Absolutely. Right. A hundred percent. Because often when you judge and you react, you don't have a lot of time to process information. You're usually just saying the first thing that comes to mind. Yeah. And then most importantly, it's usually not framed with the intention that you want. So the action that you're giving out that people are gonna judge you on, because that's how people judge, if they judge you on your actions, they don't care what you meant to say, they care what you actually said, yeah. It really often leads to negative consequences. Now, I I I see share that with there are moments where you do need to react. There are moments that it makes sense, but if you can slow yourself down instead of judging and immediately reacting, if you can really reflect process, then you can respond. And in most cases, you come to a more holistically strong solution or a holistically strong perspective based on information that you're receiving.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Well, let me give you an example, right? Like as you're you're sharing that, it gave me a very specific example in my mind. And I'm gonna give you all the example, and then ask yourself just a simple question. Don't judge the example I'm gonna give you, but ask yourself a simple question is this right? Well, he just painted this picture for me. Does that feel right? So I'll give you an example. So you walk into, I don't know, a party, a workplace setting, and you're new, or you know, you don't know some of the people there. And those individuals may have already had a discussion about you before you've arrived. And so person A knows you, but person B doesn't know you. So person A has painted a picture of who you are. And now person B has a pre-judgment, predisposed notion or thought of who you're going to be when you show up in this situation, but yet they've never met you before.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

So here you are now, you walk into this setting, unbeknownst to anything other than, hey, I'm just showing up, but yet there's gonna be this judgment already taken place of you. So when you sit down at that table or at that desk or whatever, you have this person who you're introducing yourself for the first time, but you can sense something is already off.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Because somebody's already painted a picture of you. So that's my example to all of you. And listen, we've all done that 100%, and probably all have had that done to us. My question is does that feel right in your heart of hearts that that's how we should operate? Totally.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

It is a really common scenario where people often have already come to a conclusion about a person based on what they see online, based on what they Heard from peers and friends, but I think that's a really, really astute question. And again, how do you deal with that? If you're the person that is being told something about someone before they walk into a room, how do you kind of filter so that you're not reacting to that person as soon as they come in and immediately like trying to start things off on the wrong foot? But on the counter, if you're the person that's being judged, how do you also now navigate that so that you're also ensuring that you're able to address maybe some of those perspectives and judgments? But again, this again comes back to you and how you're going to show up every single day. Cause I think the more you put this out, the more you'll attract more of it, basically.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah. And, you know, going back, there's another thought that I'm having is someone else's behavior or word choice, right? And not knowing their intent, it reminds you maybe of a past hurt or experience you've already gone through. Yes. And so then what you do is whatever that past experience was and what it did to you, you now you've associated that to the experience or words this new individual has done without understanding what their intent was in the first place. And I think some of the judgment we pass is absolutely gossip related and opinion-based. And we're making and formulating sort of who that person is. The other is not even understanding why it's taking you to this place of feeling a certain way about somebody based on their action without even understanding that person's intent because you have a past trauma. I'll give you another example. I'm going to throw a couple analogies at it. I ask a lot of questions because I'm very curious, especially in the workplace, because why? My actions have consequences. Totally. Right. So if I'm going to do something and I don't truly understand or know a process, I need to get clarity or gain clarity before I take my very first step.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Okay. So I do that. And a leadership kind of position, knowing I'm in a leadership position, can also put put me in a tough, tough place when I do that, right? Yeah. So I'm going to ask a lot of questions. Maybe somebody's going to do something or there's a project we're working on and they have an action. And I'm asking a lot of why or how questions in that action. And in that moment, I'm just trying to gain clarity or understanding so I know how to respond or maybe support a decision that you might be making. But in that moment, because I'm asking so many questions, you may feel like you're in the hot seat and there's no trust there because, oh my God, my my leader's asking me all these questions. He doesn't believe in my capacity. He should just blindly maybe trust that, hey, I've done this in the past and it's succeeded, that he has to trust that I'm able to figure it out. When in that moment, that's not actually what's going through my head. What going through my head is I want to know how I can best support you in this. So I need to answer some of these questions internally in my mind so I can actually formulate my own actions to support your actions. But because that's never communicated or said out loud, it's just assumed from one side or the other.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Then some sort of judgment can take place, right? And it's innocent in what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah. And I think that's really where if you self-reflect, and even like in your example being a leader, how do you also ensure the actions that you take, if looked through multiple lenses, relay the intention that you had with that action to begin with? Because I think part of this is really thinking through how can something I'm doing be interpreted and is it aligned with how I want it to be interpreted? Now, listen, you're not going to please everyone. Impossible. But it's at least good to be aware of how it could be misinterpreted as well as how it could be interpreted if gone correctly. And I think being aware of both of those things is important. And it sounds silly, but I think even in like everyday life, if you think about, hey, if I let's say walk into a room and I don't say good morning, doesn't mean I'm a bad person, doesn't mean I'm not social, doesn't mean that I don't like the work that I'm doing. But it could be interpreted that way because the action of walking into a room of people and not acknowledging people's presence could relay that you're not interested. That's right. And I'm not saying you need to like switch up your whole, you have to be fake, you have to be somebody you're not. But if you're not at least aware of that judgment happening, then all of a sudden you get really bent out of shape, exactly like you were saying, where it's like, hey, like how come this is happening or why are people coming to this conclusion? Well, it's because this action that you're doing has the possibility that it could be interpreted this way. And so for me, I think when you're aware of how people judge, but more importantly, how you judge, know that it's important that you still show up authentically, but in order to do that, you have to also acknowledge how things can maybe be misinterpreted. And so, speaking of that, I think there was another interesting component of this that I wanted to explore.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

And I don't know that we're gonna come to a conclusion, but I think this is a really important also aspect of how do you actually determine judgment from who somebody is as a person. And so that's the the question I wanted to explore is if judging an action is different from judging them as a person. And so, as an example, very, very, very basic example. But if someone steals something, if you watch somebody steal something, was that just a bad decision? Or is that like a bad person? Are you judging the decision of like, okay, that person just stole something, they didn't pay for it, I watched it happen. Okay, so I'm judging that right away. I'm watching this, so I'm judging, hey, that person's a criminal, that person's you know, not good in society, so you're immediately judging that. Yeah, and then versus is that person a horrible human being, like they're the worst person ever, they shouldn't like for me. This is I think really interesting because there's lots of things that we judge an entire person around that could just be a singular bad day or bad decision. But I mean, you share what you're gonna share because there's no no no I'm gonna ask you a question.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yes. So you gave this example of somebody stealing something. I don't know what this something is. Yes, okay. Are they a bad person? Well, so this is the thing. So I'm asking you, what's your what's your take on it?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

My opinion on this is I don't believe see, this is hard, but I don't in my heart of hearts think a singular bad decision you can judge somebody and say like they're a bad person. So I think where I separate the two is frequency. But there's hard, there's a hard, there's a hard line. So you're debating yourself. Yeah, there's a hard line there. Because like if they do something that's severe enough, once is enough. Exactly. Once is enough, right? So that's why it's a little bit tricky of like, how do you also interpret someone and how do you judge something? And how do you also separate a singularity to a pattern of behavior?

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah, see, there's this age-old saying of um, if you're gonna judge somebody's behavior, yes, look at their past behaviors.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Right, which makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:01

So if you want to get to know who somebody's going to be as you get to know them, just look backwards in their journey to find out how they think and the decisions they've made. You get to now accurately make a judgment on that person. That's what's out there.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Right. Now, I will say the thing I disagree with that is just around people evolve, people change. Yeah. And if you judged anyone, like, and this is why I hate cancel culture, because if you go back to anybody's anything 10 years ago, of course they said something that doesn't make sense now. Cause like the world has evolved, things have changed, people are more educated, people are more informed on things.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

We've evolved, we've we've even the slang and the terminologies we used growing up when we were in our like, you know, in our teens. Well, for me, that's going now back into the 80s, 90s, right? The things that came out of our mouth, yeah, today, yeah, you would be judging us for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

It's crazy. I was even watching an episode of Friends the other day, and I'm like, if this show came out today, there's like no way it would be as popular because so many things would be cancelled here because yeah, there's like a lot of you know, subtle jokes, subtle nuances that I don't think people would appreciate today. They wouldn't find it funny for sure. But that's my thing is I feel like you have to really come to a conclusion on where are you deciding to judge somebody's actions, and then how do you then equate that to them as a person?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

I've got a bit of a counter there. So let's go back to the friends example. And you know, let's say if it was released today, would it actually get the traction it it it got when it was out? And I agree with you, maybe and most likely not, because of the social norms. And here's sort of just play with me on my thought.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

In a closed door and you watch the show in its actuality the way it is, you may laugh and giggle and sort of see the nuances and relate to them or at least be able to understand them.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

But in a public or social setting, yes, you may show up differently and not authentically you because now you're trying to fit into this social setting. Totally. And I, in my heart, believe in today's society, that's where we are. That a lot of things are said, done, and believed in private that are no longer shared because of cancel culture in society and sort of publicly.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Yeah, and I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that people know whatever they say, whatever they do, as it should, we'll we'll get people to put them in a box.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

And as soon as they're put in this box, well, they're stuck in this box, they can't really get out of this box, and everything they say and do for the future is always going to be kind of put back into this box. And it's just it's just such a fascinating thing because I feel like the more I think about it, the more I also try to reflect even on my own decisions that I've made that could be judged, and if I would be okay having somebody come to a conclusion that I don't think is accurate and reflective of me. But I'm very quick to do that to everyone else. Yeah. And it's a hard truth to accept. It's hard for me to process that because again, we're super easy on ourselves. Like we're very kind to ourselves, as you should be. But when it comes to actually holding yourself accountable, you're very lenient and very forgiving. But when somebody else is maybe tipping the toe there, it becomes like completely opposite.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

You know, uh the personal accountability is where it lands for me. Yeah. It's um, are you showing up a filtered version of yourself or the raw version of yourself? I believe if you're showing up in either of those sort of approaches, then the judgment is what the judgment's going to be, right? If you're just a yes person, well, then people aren't going to deeply trust you. Whereas if you're unfiltered and actually share some of your inadequacies in society's viewpoints, people gain a little bit more trust in you because they themselves know they're not perfect, right? So in conclusion, I think everything is a two-way street. And the question is not just what is the other person going through, but am I in the right mental state today to have this conversation so I can show up the best version of myself? And so with that, we'll take a short break and then tee up dev to bring us home with the motivational minute. So welcome back, everyone. I'm super excited for this week's motivational minute. Dev, I'm not going to take too much of the thunder. I'm going to throw it over to you. Bring us home.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Thanks so much, Roger. Uh, and so today's motivational minute, I have to be honest, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to share, but there was a kind of a bunch of things that I've been thinking about in terms of how do I kind of get the things that I'm after. And so I stumbled across kind of a couple of cool kind of little short bursts of statements that I felt really resonated with me, and I hope I hope they show up the same for you. So if you're persistent, you'll get it. If you're consistent, you'll keep it. And if you're grateful, well, you're gonna attract more of it. If you're curious, you'll discover it. If you're committed, you'll master it. If you're generous, you'll multiply it. If you're bold, you'll create opportunities. If you're prepared, you'll seize them. If you're grateful, you'll recognize them. If you're reliable, people will trust you. If you're exceptional, people will remember you. And if you're genuine, well, people are gonna follow you. And so, whatever you're chasing this week, don't just ask yourself what you want. Ask yourself who you need to become to deserve it. And the goal isn't just to get it, the goal is to become someone who can keep it, grow it, and most importantly, share it and give it away. And so, with that, we will see you next week. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Take care.