4. Sisters Seek Peace

Join hosts Tina Boesch and Paige Keeton as they welcome special guest Michelle Hicks for an honest conversation about relational conflict and why even our closest friendships experience strain. Drawing from James 4 and the life of Jesus, the trio unpacks how sin, comparison, pride, and unmet expectations fracture relationships and how humility, repentance, forgiveness, and grace can bring restoration. With biblical wisdom and personal stories, this episode encourages listeners to pursue peace by putting their relationship with God first and trusting Him to heal what feels broken. 

• Key Bible Passage: James 4:1-12 

LINKS 

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Hosted by Tina Boesch and Paige Clayton Keeton with guest Michelle Hicks. 

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Friends and Sisters is a podcast from Lifeway Women. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Friends and Sisters Podcast. I'm Tina Bosch. And I'm Paige Keaton.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

And this podcast will reflect on how to cultivate deep Christ-centered relationships with one another.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Whether you are new to your relationship with Jesus or you've walked with him for years, this podcast is meant to remind you that you have a place in God's family, and we hope it's also going to inspire you to become a better sister and a friend. Today, we're diving in and we are going to talk about something we all struggle with, something we all relate to.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

We're getting real.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

We are about things that are hard in relationships, about things that create tension, create stress, potentially in some cases, end friendships.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

We're going to talk about it all. But it's important to talk about. It's important to have this conversation. So speaking of that, Tina, let's just jump in. All right. Have what kind of um relationship lessons have you learned the hard way? Or tell me one.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Anything happened that was like unfortunately, I gotta say there are too many, but there is definitely um I am a conflict-averse person. So I've realized that like if something's not going well, my MO is gonna be to withdraw. And so the senior, my senior year of college, I was so in denial that I was gonna be graduating. I didn't know what I was gonna do with my life. And I was roommates with my very best friend and um Jude. So she and I were really, really close. I mean, truly, like we met freshman year. We were best friends, we lived together our senior year. And um I was just, I was, I had so many things that I was wrestling with, and I just kept getting farther and farther away from her. Like I wasn't showing up to the apartment. I would like spend extra time in the art studio. My grandfather was dying. There was just all these layered, and meanwhile, Jude had like all the things planned. Like she knew where she was going, she knew what she wanted to do, like she was moving to New York, she was gonna be in literature, and I just did not know, and I did not want to face it. And so I just kept withdrawing and withdrawing and withdrawing and withdrawing from our relationship. So I get home one night, and Jude, and I go straight to my bedroom, I barely even acknowledge her. And she comes into my bedroom and she's so straight, she's like, Tina, we have to talk. And I'm like, in my heart, I'm like, I know it, I know it, I know it. She's right. And she's like, and she was so direct paired. She goes, I am starting to hate you. Oh. She's like, You have been my best friend, but I you are not here. Like, you're not looking at me, you're not talking to me, what is going on? And I'm like, and it was just the moment, it was the confrontation I needed. And it was the moment when I realized, look, confrontation can be kindness. Like, I needed to hear that, you know, and she and it opened the door for me to say, you are right. I'm sorry. Like, you know, I'm just I'm in denial. Like, I don't want to talk about graduating. I don't want to graduate. I love being a student. This is what I'm good at. What else can I do in the world? Like the moment, you know. I didn't know what it was gonna be next. I'm not a planner. Like, I love studying. Yeah. So what else am I gonna do? And it was just, it was a great, it opened, it opened all the doors for us to actually talk about what was going on. And it also sustained the relationship. And we were able to celebrate graduation together, you know, have stayed in touch. I've been able to celebrate the work that she's done. And it's that relationship still, friendship means a lot to me just because um it's one that endured conflict.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

So you learned to withdraw less. What did you think? For sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

And I learned that it does not help. Right. It's not gonna protect you from pain. Exactly. It's not gonna protect me from pain. Ultimately, I've got to face it. What would the cost have been if I if she'd hadn't done that? We would have drifted away.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

That would have been it.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

And I would have lost my best friend. She pursued you. She did. And I'm really thankful for that. She's not a believer, she doesn't share my faith, but she did exactly the right thing in that moment.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

She did. She pursued peace with you. I think for me, I can't think of a specific thing other than because I've blown it a lot, but I think uh making assumptions about what someone's thinking or feeling.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Or what people have done without me, or if they've not invited me, like I just have this these I'll make these these assumptions, and I then I punish, you know. And like, well, fine, you don't want me there, like rare, you know. And it just I've learned because of that way in me to to to come against that to try to go, what is actually the truth? What is really going on? I know my friend's heart towards me. I know my friend's heart towards me. Like they would invite me if they haven't. There's a reason there's somebody else there that I don't know, or like something's going on. Um, but I've also learned too, like what your friend did, that that there's so often peace on the other side of a hard conversation. And it's worth it. And that person, that friendship is worth it just to go straight ahead. So I'm like, like, hey, I will just say, What was going on the other night? Like uh, you know, so y'all were together without me or whatever, and they'll oh it was a you know, somebody's whatever. And I I just I have to learn their heart that they love me and I don't have to punish anybody. I'm safe, you know. So we have these reactions to pain that are unhealthy, and so learning to like you like you're withdrawing and me punishing maybe or blaming. You know, that's that's a way we're trying to deal with pain, and so to go to to Jesus without a go to go towards peace and being brave enough to to have a direct life. I love what you said that confrontation is kindness. That's beautiful. I want to take that into this session.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, it's it and I lean into what you've said too about the reality that sometimes we can manufacture conflict by assuming people think things they don't. Yeah. We can manufacture sometimes by assuming we think we know what someone's thinking. So I want to actually go to scripture now and we're gonna read James 4 because he's talking there about what causes wars and conflicts among us. So let's look at James 4 and then we're gonna get to talk with Michelle about it. Oh wait, Michelle. You guys gotta know. Michelle's gonna join us for a conversation around James 4.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Wonderful. And what do you what is wonderful about Michelle? Well, years ago, she was on my team here at LifeWay, and I nicknamed her Flash because she her eyes were so sparkly, and uh I haven't nicknamed people and I love that. She was a splash X, she's here because she her eyes were so sparkly and fun, and she was always so bright and cheerful. You'll see you'll you'll see that she's very dear and has really researched this topic and and really prepared for it today. So I'm excited to hear from her. She's actually Dr. Michelle. She's a Dr.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Michelle in theology, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

She's women's ministry. Michelle also manages our magazines and devotionals team at LifeWay and um and has a lot to say. She does, a lot of insight and wisdom. She has raised girls, she has cared for her father-in-law. Michelle is a woman who serves a lot of people in a lot of ways. Let's hear from her first. But we will. Okay, so James 4, we're going to be reading verses 1 through 12. What is the source of wars and fights among you? Don't they come from your passions that wage war within you? You desire and do not have, you murder and covet and cannot obtain, you fight and wage war. You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and don't receive because you ask with the wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? So whoever wants to be the friend of the world becomes the enemy of God. Or do you think it's without reason that the Scripture says, the Spirit He made to dwell in us envies intensely, but he gives greater grace. Therefore, he says, God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Therefore, submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be miserable and mourn and weep, let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you. Don't criticize one another, brothers and sisters. Anyone who defames or judges a fellow believer defames and judges the law. If you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor? Michelle. Thank you for coming and joining us to talk about the hardest things. I'm so happy to be with you. I don't know about the hardest things, but I'll be able to do that. I mean relational conflict. It's hard. Relational conflict is the hard I think it's one of the biggest stressors in our lives, honestly. It is, it is.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

And it's like all the time. If it's not with you, it's with those you know. There, you know, everybody's always going through some kind of relational conflict or stress. Yeah, always. I just had a conversation with my daughter yesterday about these things. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Well, we just read James 4, and I gotta say that passage is painful because we see all the ways that sin really does affect our relationships. Unpack that for us a little bit. What kind of sins do we see evidenced here in this passage and how do they impact and strain our relationships with one another? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

When I read this just in preparate in preparation for this, I just looked and I was like, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. If you look in the first three verses, you is mentioned so many times. And um it just it it reminds me over and over again that at the core of a lot of our battles, it's ourself. Yes, it is you, you, um, that um causes a lot of the things, the selfishness, the ambition, the pride, the discontentment. Um, and just as you're reading through James um and you look at this, uh and you look even just in these first few verses, um you learn that sin really fractures friendships. And there's all kinds of things from selfish desire, envy, quarreling, conflict, spiritual adultery where you're divided in your loyalty between God and the world. And pride, arrogance, um, slander, judgment of others, all these things are listed in these passages or in these verses. And um, and it just it reminds me over and over again that if we're not careful, we can kill relationships through our envy, through our gossip, um, passive aggressive comments.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Oh, I don't know anything about that.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Never never said done that before ever. But but rivalry, you know, a competition, all those things, it's that sin and that battle within us, you know, that um can really just fracture relationships so much. Yeah, so hard.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

So, Michelle, let's just hit it. What does Jesus teach us directly or indirectly about dealing with these kinds of relational issues, disappointments?

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Well, don't we love Jesus? We do, thank you. Because he gives us answers that we need. He gives us answers. Uh look getting out of James a little bit, he can Jesus teaches us continually about humility, reconciliation, grace, and how that's to be a part of our relationships. But I I pulled up a couple of verses, Matthew 5, 23, 24, where it talks about, you know, if you you go to the altar with your offering and you remember you, you know, that you have some kind of uh um issues, some issues with somebody, you know, to to immediately go to them, to leave your offer offering on the altar. And I just initi I think it's really important that we initiate reconciliation quickly. That's one thing Jesus teaches us. He teaches us to address the sin privately before it's we're talking to other people. Right. Matthew 18, uh 15 is um where that kind of starts. And if you go on into Matthew 18, uh we we know that we are to forgive repeatedly. Uh, you know, all these things he's teaching us, Jesus is teaching the disciples teaching us now about when you've got this relational strain, handle it quickly.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah, I love the things that Jesus teaches verbally, but I'm really interested in the way that Jesus lives these things out and shows us what this looks like in practice. Can you I mean I can think of one, I have one in my mind right now, but sh tell us at one of the moments in Jesus' ministry, in his relationship with one of his friends who betrayed him, who violated his trust, who really did not act like a friend. How does Jesus relate and show us what this looks like in real life? Well, I think you can go back to Peter.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Okay, yeah, the flawed such a flawed follower of Jesus and how you know he's Peter is all in. He's gonna do everything for Jesus. But ultimately, he denies him three times, but then in the end, Jesus comes back and restores him very graciously and and he models um, you know, I find it so interesting at the fire around the fire pit, I say the fire pit, but um where Peter denies Jesus. Jesus is so kind to on the shore at the beach, gathering our on with the fire with the fish and and preparing a meal. And that's the same smells, the same things that that Peter would have experienced in his denial, it's all restored when he gets gets to face Jesus again. And um, to me, that's just that's so such a good model of where when we have conflict with people or or we've hurt someone or they've hurt us, whatever the place was, whatever the emotions and the things that we felt in in that moment, how can we restore that in that we don't forget those things, but we restore each one and with forgiveness and with grace and with love.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

But you know what it feels like when someone's mad at you or you feel like someone's mad at you, you've done you know you've done wrong, you've betrayed someone, you've just blown it, and you go, and that so he had to have those feelings of like, oh gosh, what's he gonna do? How can you ever feel like is it gonna yeah, how's he ever gonna do it? I've just blown it, like to the savior of the world, and and and Jesus is that beautiful graciousness. So, what do we learn from that in our own? Because we it's hard to love like that in our in our day-to-day, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Well, and I just think about that, I think about there's so many friendships and even really, really good friendships that you're still gonna encounter these stressors. Yeah, you know, you're still gonna have those, you're still gonna have these rough patches. Um and um and knowing, I mean, really thinking about how much Jesus loves you, how much Jesus loves us as his as his flawed followers, um it changes everything in that where you think you can't um uh ever overcome this, he does make a way. And and he uh he restores all the things that are broken, you know, and that there's still the cracks there, there's still the the things that um are painful or or whatever it is, but um but we can trust that he is greater than any failure. One one moment of um uh a failure and sin uh you know it's not does not discount you forever. You know it does. Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

You alluded to the fact that every relationship has rough pastures or stressors, right? Yes. So tell us what are some of the sources of those? Why do even really good friendships often go through these periods of strain and tension?

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, I think that we can all think of a lot of different things that would cause cause stresses or just those pain points in relationships. Um I think a lot of times we have different expectations in a friendship. Um it's not that you know yours are bad toward me or mine are bad toward you. It's not that really, but they're but because of that, um, it just causes the stress. You know, it causes some kind of stress and it also probably causes some miscommunication, which can be, you know, really hard.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Expectations are the are can be the big one.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

And and especially the more that we do things um virtually, digitally, whatever, when you're texting someone or you're emailing somebody or whatever, the tone can be come across really different and it can cause those miscommunication. Yeah, but you never intended, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Yeah, but so like you said, even some let's talk about some of the hard things that happen in really good relationships that they are overcomable, but it happens. Like really strong relationships can hit hard set hard seasons.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

And I think too, person like personal wounds, things from the past or insecurities, those can, you know, something will trigger something with a friendship, you know, it'll be it'll be triggered in some way, and it's really not my fault, or you know, it might might not be your fault, but it's triggered something in that person, in that friendship, and then they feel a need to kind of pull away or to set more boundaries or you know, whatever it might be. Um, and we all grow at different rates, you know, we all are always growing, yeah, um, spiritually and and emotionally or or whatever. And so um I think that can even uh your your best buddy from Bible study, you know, that we've been with this table of women, we've been at Bible study together for five years, and then something shifts. This person is growing. Maybe this person isn't growing at the same rate, yeah, you know, or whatever, just spiritually, and it just causes some little bit of disconnect or just uh not not big dissension always, but just some some stressors, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

All right, Michelle. Let's cut to it. Let's talk about competition. Comparison, some of the the two evils that get us as women. They're hard. They're hard, and everybody it's hard to shut it off.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah, everybody, I think it is a part of our sin nature. Comparison and competition with others. Again, going back to the self, the you, you, you, you, you, you know, looking at ourselves, looking inward at what we want to be or how we're not like somebody else. The the enemy really works in ways that stir up that competition, that um comparison, the things that bring out the flesh of us instead of our because it's so self-focused.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

It's so self-focused to go, I am this and they are this.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Instead of keeping our focus on Christ, who we are in Christ. Um what's the rem what's the remedy to that? Well, I don't I I'm thinking I don't know the full remedy. I think you gotta go to Jesus for the remedy. I do love um that James really connects envy and conflict, um, and he and he really in some ways compares, um uses that, and the comparison that we sometimes have really threatens our identity and our security. Um, I think we at the root of it again, it's self. Um, you know, we have a fear of being less valued than someone else. We often have a scarcity mindset in Red U instead of really functioning out of a mindset of abundance. Like when you really look about it and look at all that God has done for you, all the many blessings, the way he's worked in your life, and you think that way, you function in abundance and of all that Christ has done for you and all that he's created you to be. But when you get in that scarcity mindset and you think you don't have a, you know, you don't have what she has, or she's got more than you, she knows Jesus more, she's a better Bible study teacher, you know, whatever it might be. I mean, her kids are better, you know, they are more, you know, well behaved, whatever it might be, however you might compare, compare and feel that just that nudge of competition. Um I think that's a that's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Um I I'll tell you a story of when I was really struggling with this. Yeah. Um, it was a Christmas and we were living in an apartment in Istanbul, Turkey, and I had been living there for a while, and I really, really wanted a home of my own. Like that was the thing that I was longing for, and I struggled. And my mom called me, and my little sister, who's seven years younger than I am, was buying her third home. And my mom and dad were there, and my mom walks me through the house, and she walks into my sister's closet and says, Look, Tina, Katie's closet is bigger than your living room. And I was just Not, I don't want a big closet, but I really wanted a home of my own. And it was a moment where I struggled to experience joy for my sister because I was jealous of the fact that she was on her third home and I had never had one of my own. And it creeps in so quickly. And I mean, I to be honest, I had to confess it to my sister. And so tell us if we're struggling with this kind of thing, Michelle, because I think pretty much all of us are.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

That's a that's a really good question. I mean, I'm older and have lived through a lot of life. Um, the things, the cultural pressure has only intensified through the decades toward achievement status, the the way that we compare. I'm not saying it wasn't hard for people in the 1950s or 60s or whatever, but I do think with between um things on TV, things that um, you know, even you know, print things, social media, all these things add to that cultural pressure to compare and feel like you need to compete or um I don't know, that desire to want things that are out of the world, honestly, that um that we don't always really need at all, you know. Um so I think that's probably one thing, really watching your intake of what you're looking at, what you're hearing, what you're reading. Um and when you feel those triggers of oh, I wish I you covet, you know, I wish I had that, or I wish I looked like her. Y'all, I'm you know, I'm maybe barely hitting five foot. Okay, if if you see me standing, I'm I'm really short. My whole life I've wanted to be taller. Yeah. So anybody taller than me, I was always wishing I and that's something for whatever reason the Lord may be this you know, shorter stature. Um, but it took me a long time to get past that and go, I am never gonna be like all the images that I see in the culture. That's hard. And to and to not feel that I was less than. I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Because I really was less than that. It's hard for me to imagine you as less than, Michelle, or even struggling with that.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

No, oh my goodness. It was is like really, really hard. And especially I would say middle school, high school years and even college. When people, when you're in your 20s and people treat you like you're 15, you know, those kind of things. And so, yeah, so that was a big struggle. But comparing myself, because clothes are not made for five foot people, you know, anywhere you go, things are not made for I'm not the average size, so it's it's it's hard. Um, but I think that's a big thing. I do think also when you're desiring recognition, like you're wanting affirmation, some of that might come with people pleasing uh and that tendency, but I think that that also just feeds that competition um and feeds that comparison uh seed in, you know, inside us. And and when we uh I mean when when I start thinking about that and just thinking of you know whether it's wanting recognition or accolades or awards or whatever you might call it, um it it again is about I'm wanting that for me. I'm not wanting that for God's glory, you know, and and really having to keep yourself in check on those things. Because it's hard even in a Christian environment in church sometimes and with others that way.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

But I feel like I we have been talking a lot about these relationship stressors. Let's talk and talk about the relationship healers.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

So if I think about the antithesis of sin, I think about grace. Can you tell us? I want to end on a note of looking at what restores relationships, what restores our souls. Give us some tips.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Um thinking through biblical uh healthy restoration. James is very specific when you read here in James 4. Um, and he kind of outlines a pathway there. If you get on down into um um verse six, um, right, right around verse six. But um, you know, again, coming back to the you at the start of James 4. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. I could say it a million times. Um, but remembering it's not about us, it is about the Lord. Um, and really having humility uh before God, submitting the you, you know, submitting yourself to God. Um, kind of is, I would say, kind of that first step on the pathway, really learning to trust him, obey him, and submit to him. Um as uh James goes on, um, he talks about honest repentance in here, uh resisting pride and accusation. I mean, some of that we have to catch ourselves on that. People are not always gonna point it out when they see pride in us. So we have to be really self-aware and and very mindful of what our what we're saying with our words, what our body language even is saying to people, um, the tone that we use, all those things. Um it of course he goes on, draw near to God first is always our um uh kind of humble yourselves before the Lord and He will exalt you, but to really be humble there and and again it's always pointing back to I've got to get out of myself and focus my attention on God.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

It is interesting that our restoration with one another also is connected to our vertical relationship with the Lord. There is a Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

If we want the horizontal to be healthy and to be at the right place biblically, the vertical has to be pursuing peace is it is truly work.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

It is work and it is ongoing work. It is. Michelle, for the woman who is struggling to pursue peace right now, for the woman who is experiencing tension, is feeling overwhelmed by a friendship that's just not what she wants it to be, what word would you want to give her to to close our conversation with? And what do you want to leave women with?

SPEAKER_02 28:51

For peace. Oh, golly. Um, I think the first thing I would say is you are not alone. You are not alone, and you are not a failure. Just because every relationship, there no relationship is gonna be perfect. It's just not. Um to remember that we are not God, we are human, and people, whether it's on our end or their end, people are gonna make mistakes, and often uh we uh when we are really seeking true biblical uh uh forgiveness and uh a restored relationship, it's uh that's God's desire. So um He answers those prayers and um and He will give you the right words to say, uh to seek restoration, forgiveness, whatever it might be. Um but uh but I think the big thing is uh it's it's women, it's men, it's uh the old, the young, it's everyone has different uh challenging relationships and to don't ever feel like you're alone or that they're honestly that there's something wrong with you because you seem to have this friction in a friendship. Um it's it's usually always two-sided in some way. To try to just um do what you know to do, to um be right with God first and then right with uh the uh with your friends and and others and bring that peace back. Yeah. Thanks, Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Thank you for challenging us to pursue peace in all circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

That's right. Yeah. Easier said than done sometimes, but yeah. It's worth it. It is worth it.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

All right, Paige. A lot to unpack there.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

A lot about peace.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

So, you know, the reality is there are so many possible sources of conflict in relationships. Yes. I want you to tell me from a counseling perspective, what are some red flags that your friendship is not healthy? How do you know if things I mean, give me give me some diagnostics on a relationship that may not be healthy, okay?

SPEAKER_03 31:00

There's so many. And I think it really goes to kind of how a relationship makes you feel ongoing. If it's a if it's a day-to-day relationship, a friend, a close friend you have, and you're you're feeling like you let's say I'll ask clients this. If you've had lunch with a person, how do you feel when you've left that lunch? You've had a two-hour lunch, you've talked and talked and talked. How do you come away? Do you feel do you feel full, satisfied? That was so great, you feel disencoured, um, you've you've had just great conversation with a friend, or do you feel drained? Do you feel off? Do you feel kind of life-sucked out of you kind of thing? And like, how do you feel? And so if if someone walks away feeling drained, feeling weird, you know, like something's off, like you have to trust your own, your own gut on things too. So a lot of those flags will live there. And if you consistently have that, or they're talking about themselves the whole time, they don't ask you anything about you, like it's if a relationship feels really one-sided, or if there's uh control, someone's trying to control you, or you sense jealousy, they're they're trying to, well, I saw that you were at lunch with, you know, like why wasn't I invited? Or they're they can be very directly aggressive or they can be passive aggressive. And sometimes I love um Romans 12, 18 as it relates to to relationships. There's a lot of great relationship advice in the latter half of Romans 12, and but 18 says something along the lines of as much as it's possible, as much as it depends on me, I will live at peace with everyone, which I like part of that because it does depend on us to seek peace. We can't ask, we can't control others. But sometimes it's not possible. Is that I love that possible word in that verse because sometimes we're to try, but if it's not possible, if you can't reach peace with someone, um, and Michelle mentioned boundaries as she was closing there, and that's true. Sometimes you can start with boundaries, meaning I'm only gonna see this person one time a week, and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna not, this person wants to walk every day. I can't walk every day. Like if they're kind of too needy, or you just if if you realize, like we've talked about this before too, they're trying to make you their life, like not putting Jesus first, they're putting you first over everybody else in Jesus, and it feels again that when someone starts having an unhealthy bond to us or attachment to us, we we we I don't know if you've ever felt that you're kind of like, oh yeah, no, that's a little much. You can kind of sense that. And that's when you if you try boundaries and backing away and that still doesn't work, you may reach a point where whatever the bad fruit is you're getting, or that and sometimes God just relationships are seasonal. It's time to move forward when a relationship is done with its fruitfulness for each other and for the kingdom, then maybe it's over. And so that's okay. I think we all stress out about oh no, it's ending. Like, how do we end? I don't want to hurt our feelings and I don't wanna, but some of the sometimes ending a relationship is obedience. God doesn't have that for us anymore, and he's got something else for us and for that person.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

I think it's helpful to remember that relationships really are two ways, right? Yes. So when I think about even that moment we talked about with Michelle about Jesus's relationship with Peter, I think one of the ways we know Peter is repentant, he wants to be in relationship with Jesus, even though he's denied him, is that when Jesus shows up and calls his name, he jumps out of the boat. Yeah, he draws near, like he wants to seek like restoration of that relationship as much as Jesus wants to offer it forgiveness. It's so beautiful. So next week we get to get together again in our next episode, and we're gonna be talking about pursuing Christ together. Yeah. And I do think there is something really powerful about focusing on the ultimate purpose of Christian friendships. We hope you'll be back for us. We actually get to talk with Corinne and Amanda, who have both together written a study on friendship. They're gonna have a lot of wisdom and insight to offer. I can't wait to talk to them. They're also younger than we are, Peggy.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

They're so young.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

They can be our friends because they're young. I know. They're gonna be our young great friends. I love them. So I'm really excited about getting to talk to them, hearing what they have to say, and we hope we're gonna see you guys back for that conversation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Thank you for listening to the Friends and Sisters podcast. Executive Producers Tina Bosch and Angie Elkins. Producer, Chelsea Walk, Engineer Donnie Gordon, edited by Caleb Hooping Gardner, Art by Chelsea Walk and Tyler Sheffelbeen, Photography, Emily Bergeron, content editor, Lara Magnus. For a deeper dive, check out the Friends and Sisters Bible study book that accompanies this podcast, linked in the show notes. Your hosts are Tina Bodge and Paige Keaton, recorded at the Lifeway Podcast Studio in Brentwood, Tennessee.