Voices of the Voiceless: The unsolved murder of Ellery Jane Doe

On December 6th, 1983, a woman's body was found off Route 17 in the Town of Ellery in Chautauqua County.  She had been beaten, sexually assaulted and shot multiple times, including in the face.  She was never identified and her killer remains unknown. In this episode, Maki and Rhiannon discuss new leads and speak to the hosts of "Catching Evil," as well as two local women who say they encountered the prolific serial killer, Christopher Wilder, otherwise known as the "Snapshot Killer," who is now a suspect in the Ellery Jane Doe case.

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 0:00

43 years ago, a woman's body was found off Route 17 in Chautauqua County. She was sexually assaulted, beaten, and shot multiple times, including in the face. For decades, investigators had no idea who this woman was, where she was from, and who killed her. But with the help of two podcasters continents away, a cold case unit here in Western New York, and information from you were closer than ever to uncovering the answers to the long-unsolved case of Ellery Jane Doe. I'm Rihanna Browning. I'm Maki Becker. And this is Voices of the Voiceless.

SPEAKER_08 0:45

We are diving into cold cases, unsolved murders, missing people throughout Western New York.

SPEAKER_09 0:51

Before we get into the case today, I do want to acknowledge the different set. If you're watching YouTube, this was thanks to our Creative Services Department. Kevin and Garrett have been amazing, and this is incredible.

SPEAKER_08 1:03

So what this is, these are our archives. These are old um video uh from decades ago, and they're not particularly well organized, but you can see um this is what we've collected over the years, and we've been going through these, and that's really helped us tell these stories.

SPEAKER_09 1:20

Oh, yeah. I mean, um, some of the video that we're gonna be showing today is actually from some of our old tapes. We're deep inside the archive archive room, so they call it the morgue. Yeah, yeah, and it makes sense. It's like a lot of these tapes are here to die.

SPEAKER_08 1:36

So we were bringing them to leave. Absolutely, absolutely, and it's and it's absolutely been fascinating, really puts you back in that time period, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:43

I wanted to note that this is a very visual um story because you're gonna need to know what what these um people look like, whether it's Ellery Jane Doe or Christopher Wilder, right? Um so i if you're listening right now, um I highly encourage you to watch the YouTube version just so you can get a face.

SPEAKER_08 2:01

Alright, so today's case, we are looking at Ellery Jane Doe. Um, so this goes back to 1983. December 6th, 1983. Uh, what happened was this is another Chautauqua County case. Um line workers, Niagara Mohawk line workers, were driving on what was then Route 17, that's now 86, um, in the town of Ellery, which is right near Jamestown. And they spot something on the side of the road.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Her body was found in a ditch near Westman Road in the town of Ellery. The body was spotted shortly before nine this morning by a passerby in a Niagara Mohawk truck. The woman was lying face down in this creek along Route 17. When police arrived, they found a partially clad body, the victim of a bullet wound.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

The young lady was dead at the scene. It's undeterminable. It may have been here since last night.

SPEAKER_08 3:04

And at first they're like, oh, is that a mannequin? Is that, you know, just like, you know, what is that? But it it caught their attention. They pull over, and what they find is a woman's body. And, you know, obviously police come, the Chautauqua County Sheriff's Office uh arrives at the scene and they they find that this woman has been shot multiple times, including in the face. Um there's a sense that maybe she's been displayed almost. Like she's left there, she's dumped there, but out in the open as well. Um and they can tell this has only recently happened. This isn't, you know, a lot of these cases we've been looking at, uh, they're very old, they're finding skeletal remains. This is not the case. This is uh a woman who's just been murdered probably hours earlier, um, and shot multiple times, including in the face. And the very sad thing is they have never been able to identify her. Um she's just known as Ellery Jane Doe. Um, and they've never been able to figure out who killed her. Um and this has been a lingering mystery for all this time. Last year I had the opportunity to go there with uh now retired, but you know, certainly working then uh investigator Tom DeZeno. He's part of the unsolved uh Chautauqua unit at the Chautauqua County Sheriff's Office. Um and we pulled over, went to that spot. Um, so that's now I-86. There's a bridge nearby, and uh very uh, you know, there's not much around it, I can tell you that. Um, and we talked about, you know, why would someone do that? Why would someone leave a body like that? Um, you know, to be found? You know, is is someone showing off? Is someone sending a message um, you know, to shoot her in the face too? That's incredibly brutal um personal. I you know, I mean, you there are a lot, there's a lot to read from that. Now they they have this unsolved Chautauqua unit, they've been trying to figure out who she is. And yes, they have run new DNA testing um through even Authorum, um, that's that incredible lab in Texas that really has been able to solve a lot of these cases recently, including ones here in Chautauqua County. They they helped in the Richard Fox case uh identify uh Cassandra Watson. Uh but with uh Jane Doe, with Ellery Jane Doe, they just have not been able to do that. Um and and what they believe is that she probably is is European. And I guess in Europe not a lot of people do the DNA testing. That's not as big a thing. I mean in the United States, a lot of people do it, like 23andMe and Ancestry and all these. So they're able to draw from that when they're able to do um genealogical DNA. Now they they have been able to to kind of triangulate maybe where she's from. And the latest theory is that she may be Dutch from Holland, which is interesting. Um and but okay, but who is this Dutch woman in the middle of Chautauqua County? How did she get there? And uh, you know, that's that's gonna be a piece of the puzzle. And that brings us to something that's happened just recently.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

These two leads uh that we received within the last week or so um certainly have uh kind of risen to the top and uh piqued our interest and are of uh uh significant investigation right now.

SPEAKER_08 6:51

And Rihanna Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 6:53

Yeah, so these two veteran Australian investigative journalists um have been covering the serial killer known as uh the Beauty Queen killer or the snapshot killer, Christopher Wilder. He was actually born in Australia, but his father is American. So he had dual um passports. Um and they moved around a lot because his father was in the um in the army. So um, you know, he grew up mainly in Australia, but he was able to escape his life there and come to the US, no problem. The reason why he gets kind of into the mix, these Australian podcasters, Andrew Byrne and Mark Llewellyn, so so the podcast is Catching Evil. They investigated him from the time before he went on this rampage, right? So he um is confirmed to have killed and and kidnapped and raped uh uh several women.

SPEAKER_08 7:55

Um I think it's 12 kidnappings and eight murders confirmed, but there's lots more.

SPEAKER_09 8:02

Yes, and so that's kind of where they come into play, right? So um they were investigating the before, the before this rampage of 1984.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

It soon became apparent to me that there are three Christopher Wilders, and the one that everybody knows is the Rampage Christopher Wilder, that six-week spell where he he murdered nine women and abducted several more and they escaped. The other two Christopher Wilders are the 20 years leading up to that. That Wilder murdered a number of women and a sizeable number of women as well. Um, and that, you know, the the the third Christopher Wilder, if you like, are those cases, the the Jane Doe cases, I suppose, that over the years are slowly they're they're getting an identification, and we're tracing those back to Wilder as well.

SPEAKER_08 8:52

For a while, there's been suspicion that he might be involved. I believe there's a dateline uh episode about this. Um you know, the possibility, and this so so we should let you know, Christopher Wilder is long dead. Yes. Yes, that he died in 1984, we'll talk about that too. But um it was because he's a race car driver and was known to drive all over the place, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 9:19

Investigator Tom Tarpley from the Chautauqua County Sheriff's Office, um, the the cold case unit, he was saying how it's kind of easy for him as a race car driver to go from one place to another really quick. So this is this is why Ellery Jane Doe is kind of put into play. They are now able to pinpoint where Christopher Wilder was um in in December of 1983 because someone reached out to Andy and Mark and said, I am a witness to Christopher Wilder in New York City.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

We heard from Nicole and she told us a story which got our, you know, you know, I would I'm unable to say it got the hairs on the top of my head raised.

SPEAKER_09 10:01

Because he was he was in Florida up until then on December 3rd.

SPEAKER_08 10:05

Um they yeah, they had never been able to actually say he's in New York. Right. Up until this woman reaching out to the podcasters. Right.

SPEAKER_09 10:14

Um so yeah, so so they got two leads um during this podcast. The first is this woman who came to who who was actually from Australia, and then she uh was in New York City for this uh a modeling gig, right? Um she was at Blooming Deals, yeah, and then she um decided to, you know, take a break and go to uh McD a local McDonald's um in in the city.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

And this man approaches her and talks about how he could be, she could be a great model, and uh he was a photographer for a major modeling agency. And would she like to join him and go out of the country, out of the country, out of New York in a few days' time, and he would take some photos for her portfolio. And so she was actually really, really interested. She even rang her agent in Australia who said, Yeah, do it if you're gonna get new photos for a portfolio. So basically doing Wilder's job. We believe that Wilder hung out of this area because he knew there were young models. He he presented to this woman um some photos of that he said he had taken the models in Australia, one of whom she knew. And so she's thinking, Wow, he's the real deal. And then he said, Would you like to come out into the country uh with me in a few days' time? And she said, How will I know your car? And she said, Oh, he said, You'll know it. So it's going to be one of the flash cars, probably a Porsche that he had previously driven.

SPEAKER_08 11:38

And that's his MO, right? Yeah, he would find women, say, hey, you know, beautiful women, a lot, models, beauty pageants, and would take pictures of them. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Now, the reason why she becomes even more important in this story is that as a young model there with not much money, it was a big expense for her to buy a coat, a big jacket. She kept the receipt for tax purposes. And she kept the memories of that trip as well. That receipt she still has, and that receipt gives us the day that he approached her in New York.

SPEAKER_09 12:11

They explain this really well. Um, where she just she remembers this day so vividly.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Um she was probably the luckiest woman in New York that week because he didn't take her, he killed somebody else instead. The critical bit is, of course, that receipt, which now places him in New York. So everyone had thought previously he he hangs around Florida, that's where his base is. It ain't. And this puts him so close to where Ellery Jane Doe um is is probably taken and then later found not far outside New York.

SPEAKER_09 12:42

So it it pinpoints Christopher Wilder in New York City in early December of 1983. So that was the first lead.

SPEAKER_08 12:51

The second lead that they got this has to do with Blue Boy, yes, right?

SPEAKER_09 12:56

The Blue Boy Motel. So um, so Ellery Jane Doe, she was found with this piece of paper in her pocket, and we'll show you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 13:04

Hotel stationery. Right.

SPEAKER_09 13:06

Yeah, and and it has these numbers. The Blue Boy Motel was a very popular hotel in Vancouver um in Canada back in the 80s. And at the time there was a race car competition.

SPEAKER_08 13:22

Yes, like a big international race car tournament.

SPEAKER_09 13:26

Yeah. Yeah, something like that. And um, and so they actually, you know, did their own digging. The competition was happening in November. Um, you know, they don't think Wilder was there, but there was this Dutch race car driver who he was friends with. Yes, he was friends with him.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

About three weeks before um the murder, um, or maybe a month, um, there was an awards night there uh by the British Columbia Car Racing Club. Um, and the one of the winners of the awards was a Dutch driver who also raced alongside Wilder in several races that year, one of which was after that awards ceremony, um, just before the murder, if you like. So there is a potential there that A, either the driver may have known Ellery Jane Doe, he was Dutch, her background, you know, it could be from the Netherlands, so there could be a connection there. Or at the very least, like a lot of people do when we're when we're in hotel and motel rooms, you take a pad because you're writing some notes and you take it with you, and perhaps, you know, one, two, three weeks later, he's with Wilder, and and and in some way the note changes hands. We don't know. We just know that there is a connection there.

SPEAKER_08 14:46

Have you located that person?

SPEAKER_07 14:49

We have located him. He's out of the country, and we are working on giving him an interview to see if potentially he knows who are uh victims.

SPEAKER_08 14:59

So he was also a millionaire, right? We should say like Christopher Wilder had money, and he was like, he wasn't like a great race car driver, but he could kind of fund that life. You know, and he loved to hang out in that world. And Jay Ellery Jane Doe in her jacket pocket, you know, and here's her clothes, and here's that that that receipt. Or, you know, the stationery that's this blue boy, you know, it's this vink, it's in her pocket. So somehow it's there. She's got some sort of connection to this motel. Right. And which has this race car connection.

SPEAKER_09 15:30

So and it's crazy. So this is where it gets really weird. Um, they so Andy and Mark um kind of they dug into this and they found that uh one of the groups of letters, or sorry, uh one of the groups of numbers, um it matches Wilder's passport numbers. Oh. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

We've also pieced together, again, more potential breakthroughs, which again are with Tom Tarpley, and that's deciphering the note. So this mystery note that's been one of the biggest mysteries in American criminal modern history for the last 40 years. Wilder was um on bail from Australia at the time um for taking two 15-year-old girls off a beach and sexually assaulting them. And he was given bail to return to America. But to get that bail, he had to put up a sizable surety. Um his parents put up $350,000 and he had to find $50,000. And that money came, because he lived here in America, had to come from America. And the note we can show contains all the information like his passport number, the exchange rate on that day for him to send the money so that he could get his bail. So the bail hearing is on a Friday, and his flight home to America, if he gets bail, is at 5 p.m. The only place when the co when the court is sitting because of the time difference, the only place in North America where the banks were still open that you could have a transfer to Australia to an Australian bank was Vancouver.

SPEAKER_09 17:16

So when he comes over to the US, um he kind of can start a new life. We're talking about how he's this wealthy businessman, race car driver. With these confirmed killings, he's known to bring um these some some of the women to a different area um and then drop their bodies off. Right.

SPEAKER_08 17:36

Um really far distances, like Florida to New York to just like all over the place.

SPEAKER_09 17:42

Yes. And he has connections in Western New York. Yes. He has friends in Western New York, Ellery Jane Doe. She's tan, right? It's weird for uh Western New York in December for a woman to have this tan. Right. Um, so they were kind of wondering, is she from Florida too? Or it could be.

SPEAKER_08 18:02

Or somewhere else. Or was she in New York? Or was she in Vancouver? You know, was she a European traveler? Was she a model who was trying to make it big here? Um, so these are all possibilities that they're they are exploring very, very actively now.

SPEAKER_07 18:18

The interesting thing is the New York City connection is you know, our victim, clearly based on uh genetic genealogy, appears to be from Europe, uh specifically, probably the Dutch Netherlands um area. So it would make sense that uh and the reason why this has never been identified, probably a visitor, possibly a visitor in New York City that encountered Wilder and possibly ended up being killed by him and dumped out here in Chicago County because Wilder, we don't we do know that Wilder has a very strong connection to Western world.

SPEAKER_08 18:56

Can you talk about um Wilder how he died? Like what happened here.

SPEAKER_09 19:02

Yeah, so basically, um after this uh well during this rampage, right? Um it starts off kind of with the disappearance of um a woman that he asked to marry him and she turned him down. He didn't take that well, uh, apparently. Um her name was Beth Kenyon, she's from Lockport. Um and she disappeared um from Florida. Um and he is connected to that case, right? Um is that a confirmed? Um I it's suspected. I think that's a suspected he was never they were never able to find her body. Right. Okay. But Lockport. Lockport, that's she's that's here.

SPEAKER_08 19:42

Flockport, yeah. This was in 1984 when this like rampage goes wild.

SPEAKER_09 19:47

Yeah, because that's kind of where it started. And then, you know, he kidnaps uh a woman along the way as he's murdering these other women, right? Um so he gets to New York and uh the uh he kidnaps a woman from Victor, New York, um, Beth Dodge. She uh he kidnaps her and uh I believe beats her and sexually assaults her and then dumps her on the side of the road um in a gravel pit and um steals her car.

unknown 20:17

Oh right.

SPEAKER_09 20:18

Yeah, and and so when he stole her car, he drove that car uh across New York State into New Hampshire, and that's when state police they um recognized because he he was wanted. I mean, he they they already knew that this man was connected to all of these killings. Um so his his picture was plastered all over the US. It his life ended in a shootout between uh him and police. Um he went to go grab his gun and you know, he was shot and killed. So, but that's he's placed in New York at that time in 1984 because of Beth Dodge, who's confirmed. Um and then there were other suspected cases. Right, right.

SPEAKER_08 21:02

So we've got um Sherry Ball. So so what's interesting, she oh she's found October 29th, 1983, uh in the Iroquois uh Wildlife Refuge. Uh so Orleans County, so very close. October 20th, not not so far from December. So she was she was taken from Florida, her body's there. She wasn't identified until five years ago. Um, they finally were able to identify her through DNA, and she is a suspected victim. Uh not confirmed, but like it all it really fits all of these things. Uh Tammy Joe Alexander is another yeah, so he so that's another upstate case.

SPEAKER_09 21:45

Yeah, so basically she was found in in New York, but um, I believe she was from Florida. And this was in the 70s. Yeah. Um and she actually went just for a long time, just like Eller Jane Doe, she went um unidentified. Um and then they were actually able to find out who she was years later. Yeah. Um so so that's another suspected case. There's a bunch of suspected cases. So Mark and Andy kind of put him up there with Ted Bundy, they think. He he's he's got a very prolific serial killer. Very prolific. Um so one of the things with Ellery Jean Doe, and this is why it's so important that we're we're you know, that she she is identified, because I, you know, you question after all of this time, if she and she was wearing expensive clothing that you can only buy in Europe, right? So that's why they were connecting um besides just the genealogy to Europe because you couldn't buy it, buy some of these um articles of clothing in the US. Um she, you know, she's this w presumably wealthy woman with beautiful clothes. She had wealthy dental work. Dental work.

SPEAKER_08 22:58

Her dental work and she I believe she also has a European IUD. She does. So they believe she had a child at some point. Yep. Probably, you know, just based on what they could tell. But this IUD, which is definitely not from America, that they've been talking about.

SPEAKER_09 23:10

And that's why this is important to connect all of these. Ellery Jane Doe wasn't the only one. Wilder is a possible suspect. Right. In this case.

SPEAKER_08 23:20

He is definitely a a suspect. I mean, he's dead now, so they don't have to worry legally, like person of interest suspect. But they they very strongly suspect this. They'd love to be able to do two things, right? To confirm who Ellery Jane Doe is, and also to say, yeah, definitively, she's a victim of Christopher Wilder. Or, or whoever it is, you know. Um, so obviously they've been, they they have revisited this case. I just recently did a story with Tom after he talked to the podcasters. We did a story on Seven News, and very interestingly, after that aired, Tom heard from a couple of local women who say, you know, because they were asking, like, do you remember seeing this guy? You know, we showed pictures of him, we showed the circumstances, and they heard from two women, which is really interesting. So one woman, she's uh from Buffalo, and she says she was working at the Mickey Rats that was downtown. So I guess Mickey Ratz had a place, it was like not quite downtown, but in Maine and I think Minnesota. So kind of university district, and that was like a big hot club at the time. She was the coach girl, and she remembers being approached by this really creepy guy who kept staring at her, said, Hey, I want to take your picture. No, very and this was around this time. Uh, so she reached out to Tom Tarpley and uh I got a chance to talk to her.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

So I watched your segment, and uh when you said that they were looking for people that they thought they saw him, I instantly knew that I had to reach out because that's been sitting with me for years. And um so I reached out to Tom and wrote out what I knew and what I experienced. One night this gentleman just showed up right in my space, um like window type thing, which it was kind of like you're in a closet, so there wasn't much room between me and the customers. Um and he kind of leaned on my my ledge and said, um, you know, he said hi, and I was kind of waiting for him to take his jacket off, and he said, um, he goes, you know, he goes, Did you ever think about being a model? And I said, No, not particularly. And he started to tell me, uh he just kept telling me how beautiful I was, and he was really, he's like, your eyes, he goes, you could definitely be a model. He goes, I I just your eyes are beautiful. And it kind of was he didn't say anything that was threatening, but it was something got my stomach kind of turned. And um, the more he talked, he had a real smooth voice. He everything he said was very, you know, nothing that would rattle me, but his presence just gave me a creepy feeling.

SPEAKER_08 26:24

And then I also talked to um another woman named Lisa. She had no, she's very, she's still freaked out by this whole thing. And she did not want to go on camera. Totally understand that, but she did talk to me on the phone. And um, she was a teenager in Lockport, uh, so that's where she's from, uh, at the Kmart there, and she had this very, very disturbing encounter about a month before Wilder was killed in that shootout. And she remembers when the shootout happened and it was, you know, it was huge national news, right? She sees that guy, it's like, oh my gosh, that's that guy who was who was stalking me at Kmart.

SPEAKER_05 27:07

I believe it was 1983, it was before my nephew was born. So he was born in December, so this was in the summertime. Um, I went to Kmart to just go browse around. Um, I think electronics had just come out at that time, so I was like checking out the computer situation, um, and I felt like someone was watching me. Decided to leave when I got to my car and opened my car door and he was like right there and started questioning me about I happened to be wearing a bikini top and shorts, and he asked me if I had the bottoms on today. And I just felt really uncomfortable, wanted to get away from him. And then I think he asked me to he pointed over to at the time it was like a little field in between Kmart and with Kmart and Ames it was, and he pointed over that way and he said, Well, we can go over to my car. And I think at that point I was I wanted to just get away from him, so I was like, Well, I gotta go, my boyfriend's coming, or I don't remember how I said it, and for some reason he backed off. I when I seen the picture, I'm like, Oh my god, that was that guy in the parking lot. And then I like, you know, listened to the backstory or whatever was on the news at the time, and I was like, That was a hundred percent him. I mean, by the photo alone was enough. I had only told a three of my closest friends over the years of this story. Um and the one girl she called me up for work and she said, Hey, I don't like saying his name. That thing was on, she goes, You should call the number. Um, I think it took me a day or two to actually decide to do it because it just brings back its PTSD moment. Like I could have been dead.

SPEAKER_08 28:46

Tom Tarpley is definitely looking for other people who may have seen him. So so Christopher Wilder, they're they're you know, I he's part of the racing world, race car world, uh, was obviously trying to pick up beautiful girls and women around here, um and around, you know, so they they are just trying to pinpoint him being here.

SPEAKER_09 29:11

They're also looking into one other thing right now, currently. Um, so there was an Eves Saint Eves Saint-Lauron. Yves Saint-Laurent um uh gala. Yeah. Yes. Um so there was a gala at that time that somebody, right, it was a witness, someone came forward and said they believed that they saw Allery Jane Doe at this right gala.

SPEAKER_08 29:37

So so this was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Um this is like, you know, like, you know, you see the big um uh what's the one that the the vote does? Yeah, like the Met Gala. It was that level, you know, there's all these fancy people were there, like every model, every this was like the it place to be, and it was in December 1983, early December. So was she there? Was she a model? Was she like the date of somebody who was there? Um so so yeah, so you know, what is did he pick her up there and bring her here somehow? Or are they people who know each other? I don't we don't know, but there's there's something.

SPEAKER_09 30:16

I mean, sh somebody, somebody out there may know something and just, you know, hopefully this jogs their memory. Um because we, you know, for decades now, Ellery Jane Doe has gone unnamed. And that's so sad to think that there is somebody out there that had a family. Right. Um, you know, and and maybe that family is still looking for her. Maybe that family still wants to wants to know what happened to her, even if it's across the globe. Right. Um, and you know, to go back, we know that Christopher Wilder had victims in New York. We know that he had friends in western New York. We know that he was quick uh with driving from one place to another and and could have been in New York New York City, or was definitely in New York City in early December. Um so if you if you've seen this man at that time, right?

SPEAKER_08 31:18

Yeah, in Western New York, and you know, wherever, you know, and I also so here's my um this is my my friend Robert Ockelon. Um he is Dutch. Now there's uh there's a very big possibility that she's Dutch and that there may be a connection to these Dutch race car drivers. So he he's translating for me, um, putting it, you know. So if you know people in Holland, could you share this?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Dus kun je iemand herinneren die around 1983 een familielid had misschien of een vriend die in Amerika vertrokken is. En wat ze niet weten wat ermee gebeurt is, is teruggekomen. Is dood of ze weten niks van haar.

SPEAKER_08 32:04

With them, uh, whether it's like Facebook or whatever, because they really are trying to reach out and find people in Holland. Uh, Tom was even asking, could you please get DNA tested? They just need more people from Holland to do this, and maybe they will be able to figure out because they can even figure out like distant relatives of this person. So, so here's it this is another way if you can help. I mean, think about this. This is a case in Chautauqua County, Australian podcasters are playing a piece of this. Maybe someone in Holland too, and maybe you, maybe you know something. Uh so yeah, please, if you know something, please, even if you think it's like a weird little detail, come forward. You can come forward to Tom Tarpley, here's his email. You could you could reach out to us.

SPEAKER_09 32:55

Or if you even if you think, you don't you don't have to be totally certain, but it's just if you think, you can reach out to us um at uh news at wkbw.com or any of our um either of our numbers with the emails or emails you know and I'm gonna post that as well. Um Right.

SPEAKER_08 33:16

And um yeah, I mean this, you know, investigator Tom Tarpley, um, who's who is very actively working on this, really believes this can be solved.

SPEAKER_09 33:29

Yes, absolutely. And and it it's it seems like they're very close um with all of these leads happening. And I I I think that with Catching Evil, the podcast in Australia, which is excellent, by the way. You totally have to check it out. You you have to check it out um because I mean it's incredible the deep dive that they went into this man, this horrible, horrible, vicious killer. Um, from the time that he was young to the time that he he ended up getting killed in the shootout. Um they they're very dedicated to this um and passionate.

SPEAKER_08 34:08

Um because they're more victims. There are just more.

SPEAKER_09 34:10

There are so many more victims. So, you know, um in in the case of Valerie Jane Doe, we just we want to give her justice.

SPEAKER_08 34:19

Absolutely. No, she deserves it. Um, and wouldn't wouldn't that be incredible after all these years? Um, for that to be solved. Um, and that's why we're doing this. Yeah, so thank you for listening, thank you for watching. Um, if you have any ideas for other cold cases, uh if you have tips, please reach out to us.