The Third Answer
The Third Answer explores the space between reaction and understanding. Through reflections on personal experiences and conversations about mental health, performance, culture, sports, and everyday life, each episode moves beyond quick answers to uncover the deeper insights that shape how we think, grow, and live.
Hosted by Dr. Ibn Sharif Shakoor, LPC, a licensed professional counselor, educator, and creative, the podcast draws on both professional expertise and lived experience to examine the intersection of culture, mental health, performance, and personal growth. The Third Answer invites listeners to slow down, think more deeply, and discover perspectives that challenge assumptions and inspire meaningful change.
The Third Answer
The TK Kirkland Episode
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Comedian and cultural icon TK Kirkland joins The Third Answer for an honest conversation about success, relationships, growth, business, and the lessons that come from experience. Real insight. Real stories. No scripted answers.
Alright, my brother TK Kirkwell. How you doing, man?
SPEAKER_01Listen to me, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna go right in. This young man is from my hometown, Jersey City, New Jersey. I'm so proud of him because he was solid from day one. So I just want to share that on takeo.
SPEAKER_00Now we're gonna merge our worlds. I'm in education, but I'm still a human. I'm from Jersey City. Yes. And a lot of times in your comedy, your message speaks to young men. Why is it important for young men to process emotions before they make decisions in life?
SPEAKER_01Because that's if you you gotta be able to take the time to think. I think mostly a lot of people who are in um jail had another day to think about what they was doing, they would be okay. They would do it over there. And I've and you and you've got to be tested through your whole life. I had a woman put me in a bad situation. But all my experiences prior to her helped me control my emotion. Because it was a lie, but it was a bad lie. It was a lie that really just hurt my ego. So you gotta have the ability to question yourself, right? Because what I did was I talked to myself in jail. I visualed myself in prison.
SPEAKER_00Process.
SPEAKER_01Right. So no, no, no, it was a possibility. I actually had a conversation. So when I walked in to myself, I turned around and said, Yo, why are you in here? I said, because a bitch lied to me. And I turned away and I looked back at myself. I said, You gave up your freedom because a bitch lied to you. Yeah, yeah. Makes so much sense, dog. Yeah. People, I mean, it's it's it's really just words. Yeah, yeah. And people have to separate themselves from words.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's just words. Just words, just words. You know, I had my first, my oldest daughter is 13 now. I'm 35. Yes. I had her, well, I didn't have her. She was conceived uh six months after my mother died. Okay. And I've heard you say it's not good to make decisions after like tragedy. That's right. Tragic loss. That's right. Can you just elaborate a little bit on why that why you think that's so important?
SPEAKER_01The reason why you shouldn't make decisions on tragedy, you shouldn't get married, you shouldn't spend money. Because you you think that you're at your best, but you're actually going through pain. People do pain differently, right? Some people gain weight, some people get depressed, some people um get fat. But you gotta, when people die, you gotta run if you can. You gotta hit something that is a boxing bag. Not to suppress the emotion and let it out. You gotta release it. If you hold it in, you're gonna lose your mind. Because we're not taught to survive after our parents are dead. Yeah. People are left to figure it out for them for themselves. And people have to start teaching their children how to move, how to think when their parents leave here.
SPEAKER_00What does TK Kirkland do when he's frustrated or he's he feels like he's you know stressed a little bit? What do you do to like unwind and I go to the gym.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I'm always in the gym. All right. You know, I'm always in the gym. And I do have um nervous condition, but it's a good nervous. See, there's a bad nervous and there's a good nervous. A healthy one, yeah. Yeah. Mine is because I'm excited about life. Yeah. Right? I go to bed at nine, I'm up at two, and it feels like I slept for 15 hours. I'm just ready to get going. I'm ready to go. And I worked so hard my whole life, and even now, at my age, I feel like I just got started. So when people see me on Vlad or No Jump or listen to me on my podcast or your show, they are impressed by things I've done. And like they call me the Forest Gump, right? But I'm shocked once it comes out of my mouth, everything that I've done. Because I really feel like I haven't done anything. And I'm just keep going. So I just want to just do what I can, create a legacy, um, do my part while I'm here on this earth and um do what I'm supposed to do because we all have a purpose. A lot of people don't know who they are. I'm here to help people, I'm here to help impact and change lives, and that's what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00What you've done a lot.
SPEAKER_01You know, you put a lot of people on. Yes, yeah. So that I'm doing my part and I'm excited, and I'm getting ready to receive the benefits of all that, which is a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_00You and my dad are about the same age, like 60, 61. What's your ingredients for looking and feeling so youthful?
SPEAKER_01Um, I think it's a DNA. I think it starts when you're young, and I've had a um, it's your mindset too. Yeah. You know? It's your mindset. And I got money. And money helps, I don't give a fuck. Word, you got access, you know? Nigga, money. Listen to me. Even though I got a lot now, even though I get another check, right? Well, nigga, I get happy every motherfucking time. I swear to God. You would think I was broke the way I act when I get money. And I go right to the bank and I put everything in the bank. I don't play. If I spend, I teach my kids, you spend, you make sure you replace. Don't never spend, and you may replace that money. You can't replace it, do not spend it.
SPEAKER_00Yo, I admire that you had like your daughter in the sense. I thought that was great. Yes. Presence as a father, like as far as you being there, and presence. I heard you say both are important. Yes, yes. And that really changed my perspective because I'm like, damn, it's not one over the other. How do you balance as a father being present, but still, you know, like, yeah, I gotta give my kids things sometimes.
SPEAKER_01It's hard, yo, because I got five. And they stretch all around the country. So I talked a lot on the phone, but I spent a lot of time with the girls. Yeah, yeah. Because coming up as a player, I date a lot of women who ain't have their shit together. I date a lot of women, no matter how beautiful they were, it was a disappointment. Because to me, it was a no, there was no dad around to give them structure on how to move with a man. And I seen that. And how I came up with who raised you was I was dating this bad bitch. She was fine, y'all. But she was dumb. And I said to myself, I need to meet your parents. Because who would send you into the world unprepared? Yeah. That's how I looked at it. I said, someone sent you into the world unprepared. And that's how I came up with who raised you. That's how it all started.
SPEAKER_00That's how I feel about my daughters. I just want to give them the information so they can be informed. Once they go out into the world and make decisions, they won't be able to say, Daddy didn't give me the children.
SPEAKER_01Yes, but it's more than that. Because you got men who are just as smooth as you. Yeah. That a tough kid out of their motherfucking past. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Some girls can get digmatized and their whole life can be fucked up. That's true. You know, so the thing about that, you still gotta be involved. Yeah, of course you've got to meet. You gotta meet their boyfriends. He got to meet you, he got to feel your presence. You gotta feel your presence, and you gotta you gotta you gotta talk real. You gotta teach about fucking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, you gotta do it.
SPEAKER_01You know, you gotta like, you know, you gotta know how to fuck, you gotta know how to sometimes you're gonna have an accident and they're gonna nut in you. You know what I'm saying? Your money ain't right, his money ain't right. You gotta get an abortion, baby. You let them know it's okay. And let them know it's okay. Yeah, they ain't nothing is motherfucking perfect. And what I love about my children, they think just like me. That's great. And I love that shit. They all solid, yo. Because you're a realist. Yes. Yeah. My kids. And when I say they solid, I'm so impressed.
SPEAKER_00I I know you gotta go. No, no, no. We doing your thing, yes, yeah, yeah. Jersey City, Snyder High School. I would be, I I can't, I can't go without mentioning that. What stood out most to you when in your experience as a track star at Snyder High School?
SPEAKER_01If any if you had anybody in my high school, they'll tell you I was the most quiet quietest person that you ever. No one knew that I was um funny. I was well dressed, I was best dressed, I was sharp, but I stayed to myself. I was I went to school, did what I had to do, I didn't really talk to nobody. I was focused on day one. What grammar school did you go to? I went to PS 15. Oh, I used to teach at 15. Yeah, I went to PS 15, sure did. You see that little brick on the side where it says 1966? Yeah. That was my first year at um grammar school. Wow. I remember that brick was there. Still to my head, I still see that motherfucker. Wow, yeah. 1966, yep. I was in um grammar school there. Head start, matter of fact. Kindergarten. Wow. And um Jersey City was um, it was great for track, but a lot of tragedy in Jersey City for me. My brother got murdered there, my um youngest brother died of AIDS in Jersey City, my dad drowned, my mom died of cancer, um, all before I was 42 years old. So no one lived to be 60 in my family. So having my birthday that day was really um a blessing to make it, and I really hope that uh that there is the universe that um everybody's proud to see of my my achievements because life is about, you know, not stepping on minefields. You know, you gotta have a little luck on your side. It's true. You gotta be you gotta be blessed. I've had I've been blessed to meet some of the um greatest influencers that I've known, from Mr. Wilbur Jones to um another gentleman who just passed away in my life named David Klingman, um, and then some of all the street people I met in my journey, and that's another phase of who age to all these people helped to motivate me and mold me to the kind of man that I am. So when I'm on stage dropping knowledge, when I'm on stage keeping it real, not being afraid, not being your typical comedian. Because you don't hear delivery like that. You know, my style of comedy is totally, totally different.
SPEAKER_00My mom died in from cancer in North Carolina, my grandfather did too. I hate North Carolina. Right. Your experiences in Georgia City with losing your family, does it prevent you from go coming back at all sometimes?
SPEAKER_01Well, there's nothing there. Like my mother's son Giuseppe coming in there, I love to lay on the couch. Yeah, I love having a pork chop by my mom. Or have a pancake and the pancake, the real thin pancakes with the butter on it. Oh man. So these are um life is um tragedy and a blessing. Because if you live long enough, you're supposed to go through all the seasons. You're supposed to deal with death, you're supposed to deal with happiness, birth of a child, you know, you're supposed to see someone get married, um, and you live old and die. And that's a full life. You know, I feel sorry for the rappers who are dying young, you know. Recipes DMX, right? Yeah, and um see when I DC DMX, I think of um, I wish he'd have taken care of his body better. Yeah. Because it's all about choices, right? And God only gives you so many chances, and he said he's tired. He did it to Whitney Houston, he did to Michael Jackson, he did it to Prince. And no one, and these people very talented people. Yeah. And when God gets tired, he says, listen, you don't you don't care about the talent I gave you. I gotta take you away and give it to somebody else. Yeah, yeah. And the great thing about DMX, he lived to be 50, but man, it was a he had a painful life. Yeah, a lot of stuff. She's out of jail? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um drugs and shit. I heard Swiss Beats say today that um he was that DMX was suffering so much that he would go to prison for his freedom for a break. Wow. Because he was I just thought that was so deep, like wow. He was suffering so much mentally, and one of the reasons why I follow you is that the the balance that you're able to provide for perspective, because suffering, I mean, pain is inevitable. It's a part of life, like you. It's part of life, yeah. But for you to be able to keep that positive perspective and enjoy life, I mean, I think that's a lot of game that a lot of young people can soak in.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? Mike Kemp said it to me best. He said, You can't tease this shit that I got. He said, TK, what you got, you cannot sell it in a bottle. You know, he was real, real honest with me, you know. And when people ask me about certain things, I tell them it's in my DNA. Uh this is something that um you have to have in you. Yeah, gotta be built for it. You gotta be built for it. Because don't get me wrong, I get hit in the chair with life. Oh, of course. I get hit in the stomach with life. I'm not bullshitting.
SPEAKER_00But it looks like a soccer bowl and all that stuff. But you remain hopeful, optimistic, and you might bend, but you don't break. Well, that's not what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_01But what I was gonna say is um a young man taught me a long time ago, he said, keep swinging, champ. He said, sooner or later you're gonna get a knockout. So I keep swinging.
SPEAKER_02And leaves me here, you know.
SPEAKER_00Um, Mr. Odom's night of high school. What do you remember about Mr. Odams?
SPEAKER_02Uh Mr.
SPEAKER_01Odams was just a smooth brother, you know. Didn't say too much to him. I always stayed to myself, you know. Again, I told you I really didn't talk a lot.
SPEAKER_02I was really there to um win.
SPEAKER_01I was just a determined when I look back now and those I didn't talk that much, just know I just worked hard. Because I really wasn't the most talented on my team. But I was the most determined. And luck happened to be on my side, and uh I outworked everybody, and I took that same ability when I was getting in trouble. I said, if I because I used to beat all my cases. So I used to say, if I took the same energy that I took to beat my cases, then I would be unstoppable in the industry. So that's what I did.
SPEAKER_00TK Kirkland, comedian. I like to call you a conversational conversationalist because as I analyze the way you communicate, you really don't you really don't leave much space for any error. Like you're sharp, like with like on stage, through interviews. I I always admire that because I feel like you can always control a room and you can always be on point with your surroundings when you're able to just like ping things like that. What do you attribute that to? Just isn't your you just built like that, or you learned just I think I learned that.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think I was young, I used to talk real fast. So I turn a negative into a positive. Because when you talk real fast, you're considered a liar. If you talk really fast, I'll be lying. Yeah, people say that a lot. I don't know where they get to. You say that girl, she talked real fast, she probably oh yeah. So I learned to slow down. Um so everything I taught myself, I didn't have anyone to teach me. So everything you hear, everything you feel was self-taught. But it's for everybody else, and they see it, they feel it. And um, I think I did a good job.
SPEAKER_00Last thing as I bring this back to our hometown, Jersey City, because a lot of people are gonna see this in Jersey City. Yes. What is your message to I don't want to exclude exclude the young ladies, but I feel like your presence is very important for what I do for young young men in Jersey City. Yes. What's a message that you have for young men that's coming coming up, you know, in these turbulent times, social media and decision making? What's one thing you would say to them?
SPEAKER_01I would say pick your friends carefully. Um take the time to think about your choices. Work hard to stack your money. And if you can, try not to get in a relationship until you ther until you late 20 late 20s, early thirties. Because that's when mostly everybody has their problems. Is always when a woman or a man is involved.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you can cut the the women and the men out, you can pretty much achieve a lot of stuff. The problems come when they start having sex. Yeah, I agree. The problem occurs when you get emotionally attached to another person and that person don't act right. Think about the people that you know that was Val Victorian. Why the fuck, excuse my language, true, and didn't want it got pregnant. That the dude or the dude was a football player. And you guys had a scholarship.
SPEAKER_00And you look back like, damn, she you she was projected to be so much. But she had sex, had a baby, and then it changed, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now she's working at a salon. Yeah, worried, world. Could have been working at a factory, the best football player on the team. Yeah. But he didn't have a dad. Yep. He got a girl pregnant, he said, um, I forget school, I'm gonna be not knowing he could have gone to school in four years and got a better job to take care of his kids. You have and be willing to sacrifice. Sacrifice.
SPEAKER_02You gotta have the ball to sacrifice.
SPEAKER_01And I'm gonna repeat it. You gotta have the ball to sacrifice. I sacrificed a lot. Yeah. I really did. I sacrificed a lot. But you're happy with your sacrifice, you know. Yep, I I I can live with my decision and I'm happy with it. That's again. Like I'm happy.
SPEAKER_00Like I'm happy. Yeah. It shows, man, you project that, and it's contagious for those who, instead of being like you said on stage, I get inspired, I don't get envious. Yes. So when you project that kind of energy into the universe, those who need it and want it, they'll soak it up.
SPEAKER_01And here's the thing, ladies and gentlemen, everybody got hate in them. Everybody got jealousy, just life. The goal is to change control your emotion. If you control your emotion, you win. Absolutely. We're all human. There's gonna be somebody that's gonna make you upset. Just life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's gonna be someone's gonna make you jealous, just life. But control your emotion.
SPEAKER_00Control your emotion. It's something I had to learn, you know. I became quote unquote successful. I did have a kid early, but it was much harder than it needed to be. So, but I understand that I might be built a little bit differently. But when I look at some other young men, I'm like, yo, bro, don't do it to yourself. I I survived, I was able to navigate, but it's not, it wasn't fun.
SPEAKER_02Right?
SPEAKER_00So if you can get it right the first time, I say you get it right the first time. No kids. No kids.
SPEAKER_01Men, for some reason, who ain't got no money, ain't got a car, no savings, still live with their parents, live in an apartment out here screwing, and not thinking about the consequences.
SPEAKER_00Making a mess everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Digging a hole. Yeah. Sometimes in holes you can't dig yourself out. Yeah. Sometimes your ass is stuck.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes your ass is stuck. Yep. And then you get, and then you see guys that were in their teens. I feel like sometimes people peak too fast, right? Like you talk about kids that were like, they were just popping in high school. They reached their peak. And then on the other side of the peak, when it's like you're turning 40, you're like, damn, they they still they're still living in that moment of high school, right? As you're evolving and you're f finding new challenges, you got that group of people who are it's almost like they never grew out of that peak stage.
SPEAKER_01Here's the thing everybody can't make it. That's the first thing. Everybody can't make it. Just is what it is. It's too much um technical stuff. And what I mean by that is your DNA, who's your parent. You got two crazy parents, girls can be a phone.
SPEAKER_00Hey, hey, I work in the school system. There's so many people I went to school with, then you see the kids, you know. Right.
SPEAKER_01Bam. Yep. You know? And that statement about the apple don't fall too far from the tree. It's genetics. Yes, sir. So that's the word I wanted to use. Genetics, y'all. Genetics played. So I mean, you know, it's like really like the matrix.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I just watched that for the first time. Yeah, really like the matrix, y'all. Yeah, yeah. You know, so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. TK, I thank you, man. I mean, it's a it's an opportunity I think people need, especially in Jersey City. Like, I mean, man, like for me, because I I get it, I'm like, man, TK Kirkland's from Jersey City, he went to Snyder. Oh no, I need to talk to him. Like, what's wrong with you? You know what I'm saying? I just think it's important that you know you shine your life.
SPEAKER_02Better parents are now.
SPEAKER_01Talk to coach Oldlands. Okay. And we want to have something in the auditorium at Snider High School. We can do it.
SPEAKER_00I can make it happen.
SPEAKER_01He's retired, but I work there now, and I'm sure we can still we'll put something together and have the whole audience in that mug for free, and we'll I'll come talk to them for an hour.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01And we'll do that. Matter of fact, we'll do it next year. Start putting it together. Okay. I'll do that. I got you. I would love to do that one. We'll make it. Something that I would look forward to. Shout out to my man Pressure Online. Can you shout him out, please? It's a pleasure, Press.
SPEAKER_00Pressure Online. Pressure Online. Pressure Online. Yes, sir. What does that mean? That's his brand. He's an artist and a uh a media person. Awesome. Yeah, his brand is Pressure Online.
SPEAKER_01Press online. Pressure. Pressure online. Okay, alright, alright. I like that. Pressure online. That's gangster, yo. Okay, I like that. Oh man. Let me tell you something. Let me see if you can help that. There was a woman in Kerry Woods. She was deaf. Yeah, she couldn't hear. But she was fine. Drop dead, motherfucking gorgeous. Her and her sister. Every you gotta know who this was.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna ask somebody about her. I'm sure I can find out who she was there. Find that she was deaf back in the day. Curry Woods is still there? They knocked the main buildings down, like the big ones, but it's it's lower rising apartment. Okay. Oh, I wish I it wasn't Maggie, it wasn't Terry. I'm trying to figure out what who in my family you would have like went to school with. I had an aunt that I didn't hang with nobody. Nobody?
SPEAKER_01I say I hang with nobody. Nobody. Nobody thing. Okay. I was really low-key. Yeah. I was really like he went the day I graduated from Stanley Theater, I was on the plane two days later, left Jersey. I was gone, never went back. Wow. I was gone. Wow. And my Mr. Jones tells me all the time, he said I was just too big for Jersey City. And that's what he always said. And I was gone, yo. Gone. It was destined. It was just your destiny, bro. Yeah. Um, yeah. I went through a lot of craziness, but um I was supposed to go through. And I I I compare it to the movie Kung Fu. Yeah, I'm using kids young. It was a TV show Kung Fu. You remember TV show Kung Fu? But I'ma Google it. At the beginning, you see a little boy trying to take a pebble out of this man's hand. And he can't get it. So he sends him to the universe to become a man, learn experience, comes back, boom. My life, everything I went through, all the craziness, was to prepare me to have the conversation I'm having with you today. Because if you haven't gone through nothing, you can't teach nobody nothing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, one more thing. I I I want to remember this. One thing that I noticed that you do a lot, or you don't have a problem doing, is like, let's say you're on Vlad or something, um, and you say something in error or you were wrong about something, you don't seem to have a problem with uh taking accountability, like, hey, I was wrong. Let me let me make that correction.
SPEAKER_01Were you always like that? Or I've always been like that. Um accountability. Accountability is important to me. Yeah, you know, and I think that um I'm good at what it is. I'm wrong, I'm gonna tell you I'm wrong. Yeah. If you know, I don't never lie to people unless it's the cops. I'm getting fucked up. You know what I'm saying? I lie, but it's only gonna be the police, and I'm gonna fight it. But uh I haven't been in trouble in years, so I'm thankful and um and I'm glad that I'm sitting here with you. But I have a question. Yes, sir. How do you pronounce your first name? Ibn. Ibn? Yes. Okay, Ibn, I didn't know how to pronounce it. So I just wanted to make sure. Okay, ribbon with no R. Okay, Ibn. Yes. Okay, what does it mean? Son of. Son of.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, Ibn. My dad's from Newark, Muslim, right? You know, so my dad converted when he was 17. Okay. Shout out to my dad, too. He did a lot of time, but he got good DNA, so I was able to. Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I see it. I see it. Yeah, New York, New Jersey. Yes, sir. Yeah, awesome awesome, awesome city. All right, brother. Yo, we gotta get a couple photos. Absolutely. God bless you, Jersey City. May your pain be champagne. I hope I made you proud. Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
