The Third Answer
The Third Answer explores the space between reaction and understanding. Through reflections on personal experiences and conversations about mental health, performance, culture, sports, and everyday life, each episode moves beyond quick answers to uncover the deeper insights that shape how we think, grow, and live.
Hosted by Dr. Ibn Sharif Shakoor, LPC, a licensed professional counselor, educator, and creative, the podcast draws on both professional expertise and lived experience to examine the intersection of culture, mental health, performance, and personal growth. The Third Answer invites listeners to slow down, think more deeply, and discover perspectives that challenge assumptions and inspire meaningful change.
The Third Answer
From The Hill to Healing Pt. 2
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Six Black men from Jersey City—each with a different background and perspective—come together for an honest conversation about where they’ve been and what they’ve survived.
Uh what you brought to my attention during the break is that this is very true. Why I think I'm in the position that I'm in is because I see myself and everyone here. Some aspect because I'm I feel like I'm a very layered person. I don't show it, but like I literally can see a piece of meat in everyone, and that's why I try to bring bring people together. But um let's let's switch it up a little bit. With me and tell the women. I grew up, my moms and my pops, of course, was never married. Um my dad actually met my mother, and you look at this differently, this is crazy. My chances of being born, my pops was locked up in Rowway State Prison and he was playing on the phone, calling people collect. And he just so happened to get my mother, and she happened to live 15 minutes from my aunt, my pops' sister. And my aunt was um, I'll leave that out. But she went around to uh my mother's house, like, no, she looked alright. Took her to see my pops. As soon as he came home, there you go. So you talk about the odds being stacked against you already. Just me being born into the world. So I didn't really have uh uh they didn't last more than a year, so I didn't really have an example. It's crazy how I know it's crazy. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01It's crazy to you because you're younger, but it's how it was real. Like that is literally what they used to do. That's literally what they used to do, like yeah.
SPEAKER_03Hey, don't butt in. But my point is this is that I learned how to interact with women from outside. Period. I didn't have any other example. I was confused. I got my boy Snoop, who's a lover, so I try to learn from him like, damn, how he like he's you know, but it's all about balance, right? You can be a lover. So I'm like, damn, why I don't feel affectionate the way he is to his woman. I don't feel that way. But then I got a whole bunch of motherfuckers I'm learning from. It's like we running trains over here. You know what I'm saying? So I'm trying to figure out how do I feel. Good old days. Good old days. Hey, let's just keep it. It is what it is, you know? But um, I just want you guys' perspective, because I'm still struggling with that as I have a family, as I'm trying to figure things out. I'm trying to be forgiving, I'm trying to forgive myself. And um, but then man, what how would how do you guys interact with women? What's your experiences like? Talk to us.
SPEAKER_02Hey, man. Thomas back in the country. I just say, man, you know, it's definitely been an experience, man, for me. You know, I'm I'm gonna speak, I'm not gonna speak on the past, you know, in the uh in the dunya. I'm gonna deal with the uh Well you Dean, huh? Um it's and it's called it's it's simple and it's just called growth. Right? And um just interacting with women, man. Me, I had a I have a new form of respect. Like I was raised in a house full of women, right? So I had a great idea on how to treat women. You know, I know what they like, I know what they dislike, you know, stuff like that. And you know, in my time makes sense now, got you. Yeah. I had uh three girlfriends at one time, right? You know, and every everybody was feeling like they was the one. I had everybody feeling like they was the one. And the crazy thing about the crazy thing about it was uh it was two of them that had uh access to my mom. So, you know, they would share these stories with my mom about me. You know, my mother was like, you know, my mother didn't see me in that light. You know, she, you know, she she she brought it to my attention like, hey, you know, like this one is talking like this, and you doing this to have one and this one and that one. But I knew what I was doing. You know, it was just how were you about? I would say I was probably about 25, 30, 30 something years old.
SPEAKER_01That's a that's a big gap between 25 and 30 and 30 something. Uh I was screwing.
SPEAKER_0625, 26, all right.
SPEAKER_02But uh for the most part, man, you know, it was just like, and I'm just going, I'm getting right to the change, you know, and uh my mom was like, uh, well, you know, I didn't raise no womanizer, you know, and you know, it took me a minute. I had to go research that word. Tumultuous womanizer. Tumultuous womanizer. Wow. And uh that's a lot of women. That's a lot of women. Right.
SPEAKER_01But you know, but you had to formulate with the shit. Formulate. Once you got to formulate, it was working. It was working, right?
SPEAKER_02But you know, it was all about really just being considerate of others, man. You know, and that's the thing it was about, man, just being considerate of others. And that's what I was mostly lacking. You know, but um, I had I did my numbers, man. I did my numbers, you know, it was good, but at this stage, you know, it just being considerate of others today, you know, I just feel like, you know, I'm still, I'm not even gonna stay in search because I know Allah is gonna provide for me. But uh just having that balance, man. And even I even talked about this with Lewis, man. You know, I I love what he has, man, as far as his his wife and his family. You know what I mean? And you know, I look up to that, man, and I admire that. And it's just something, you know, when you see your brothers, you know, it's not no jealousy or hatred type of thing, it's just seeing what your brothers have. And you just want that for self. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? So that's the that's where I'm at right now, you know what I mean? But for those that's out there still enjoying yourself, you know. Yeah, I'm definitely enjoying myself. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01I gotta talk to him, but I want y'all to understand me. You feel what I'm saying? Like that's the point. It's a it's a it's an assumption. That's the phone, right? I told you this. I told you what you get in your bag, it's a bat, right? It's a bat. Yeah, I told you that. What you get in your bag is old. But look, how I feel about this is right, all right. Now, look, I d I was young. I don't know anything about females. You feel what I'm saying? So, like, my first time trying to get some pussy in my life, I probably was like 60, six years old. Now, if the girl decided she was gonna give me some pussy that day, I didn't know what the fuck was gonna be happening. I mean, six? Six. I was in pre-K. Facts. Head start, Sigma Heart, round the corner. I invited her in my bed. If she got in that bed with me, I wouldn't know what it happened. I don't know what to do. I didn't I didn't know what to do. Where you learned that from? You just instincts? T B. We had Playboy channel. Last and last channel, last year. But Play Boy Boy at the age of six? Yeah, we shouldn't have had it. I got you. So that's for now, reach for now, kids shouldn't have. That's why YouTube is crazy for kids these days. You could get allowed to go. No, I didn't have sex at six. I said I was attempting to have sex at six. But if I should beat me out. But if she would have allowed it, I wouldn't have known what to do anyway. You feel what I'm saying? But fast forward now. That's just telling me like that's how my mom, like that's how I know I ain't gonna, that's how I knew I was getting, right? You gotta know these days. But anyway, to get now, I'm older, right? So I grew up with my OGs, my family members, everything. Like, so my family members was to me personally, they was that nigga. All of them. Like, all of them. So I watch all of them have a tumultuous about amount of women. You feel what I'm saying? I tell you, I do this on me. I'm scaling alone, you know? Or women, right? So now, when I decide, when I decide, like, I I know for sure that I like females, you feel what I'm saying? So now, they used to always call us gay. But the only reason they call us gay is because they have a lot of women. We have zero. They didn't call us gay from acts, the shit they did. They just, but that was like, that's like, I even caught myself doing that growing up too. Like, my youngest, that's like a like that's like really some hood stuff. Like them hoods was like, yo, you don't got why you got no girls come around? Y'all niggas gay, man. You feel like niggas like, no, I ain't gay. So I would that was me. Right. So now I go get a girlfriend. Now the girlfriend I actually go get is weird, but I actually fucking liked her. You feel what I'm saying? Like, I liked her a lot. You know what I mean? Broke his heart. So now, no. She broke his heart. Impossibility. Alright. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But look, no, no, no, I'm gonna tell you something. I actually got I actually liked her. So when I when I liked her, um I came to my home with them, like my family members. I was like, yo, I got a girlfriend now. So it's like, oh, you got a girlfriend now? But you only got one? Who the fuck got one? So now it's like, now I'm like, damn, it took me about 16 years to get this one. How the fuck am I supposed to get more? You feel what I'm saying? Like, how do I get more? You feel what I'm saying? Like, you know how long it took me to get one? Like, bro, like, what the fuck? I gotta wait till 35 to give me two? You feel what I'm saying? Like, so now I'm kinda lit though. You feel what I'm saying? Only I'm kinda lit because they get a lot of money, so they're taking care of me too. So I'm dressing how a 30-year-old dress in high school, you feel what I'm saying? So I'm lit. Now I'm getting more girls. So this is where I messed up in life, I feel like. Because I'm following other people when I felt like I had to love my life then. You get what I'm saying? So now making them happy, I didn't give a fuck about her. And I didn't give a fuck about me. You feel what I'm saying? So now I got a lot of girls. So being that I got a lot of girls, I'm getting caught. But I'm getting caught, so what? I got three more. It ain't about that. It ain't about that, because they they they number one too. But I mean, when you when you lose one, get another, get out of another one. Alright, cool. I'll get on the couple, I'm happy. So now my uncle comes upstairs. This shit funny as hell. So my grandmother, like, you need to talk to them. They got all these girls calling the house, so and so, so and so, so and so. So I'm standing behind my grandma. So while she's telling him that, he like, he looking at me, I'm looking at him like he can't say nothing. What can you say? This is your advice. You feel what I'm saying? Like, this is your advice. So that I'm supposed to have whatever I have, you feel what I'm saying? So that's been my thought process since then. Like, since that's the that's the memory, no, not since then, like forever since then, but I'm so at that moment, like, that's my thought. Like, that's what I'm supposed to do, because that's what you told me what I'm supposed to do. You feel what I'm saying? So, but to actually find that one for you, and then have people around you to tell you, like, if you're happy with that one, do right. If you're not, enjoy your life. You feel what I'm saying? You feel what I'm saying? So thanks. That's where it was like, it was bad advice at the moment, but it's something I had to learn later in life, you feel I'm saying. But I also had to go through what I went through to understand me today. Y'all still cool? Of course not. I'm saying we gotta find it. If it was cool, we ain't been married by that. We've been some kids there. I got a little cashed out around this motherfucker.
SPEAKER_03Calm is a mother, though. So let's just find the words. I mean, anybody that wants to that was great input.
SPEAKER_04I ain't had the best friends. I'm saying though, I kind of grew up on the same thing that they was on, because they was doing all of them. So I do it. I grew up under them. Yeah, exactly. But I'm saying though, as a I'm saying our generation got a little different, though. I had to slow down, though, you know what I'm saying? Because it's like uh like at the like after my brother got killed or whatever, like then when I got older and I started like learning. Calvin had a kid at 15, right? He he was four, he was probably about 14. 14. Yeah, so when when I started learning though, when I get older though, and I get into stuff and anything, I had to know run around. I ain't that old, but have my little running. Yeah, but then is what I'm saying, start like trusting shoes and you know what I'm saying, getting to the streets, you can't just be trustingly you said something about that in uh in my favorite song. By the girls, you know what I'm saying? Oh what the tour. So long, so long.
SPEAKER_03What you say? Uh you said something about uh you said something about something you was going through with your shorty. I would have let you say it.
SPEAKER_04Am I you said something by saying she went away, she was looking for attention, her was really bad because the I forgot. Yeah, yeah. Yours? You could got yours?
unknownHuh?
SPEAKER_01You should got your wrong.
SPEAKER_04I'll be freestyle.
SPEAKER_01Nah, fact. The way them young niggas rap these days, we gotta let them slide, you know.
SPEAKER_04No, I put a lot of pain in that one right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're gonna hair. He's just talking to that.
SPEAKER_04So wait for the attention, you know what I'm saying? So like I be more so on some, I'm out of one girl type type, one girl, you know what I'm saying? Cause I just feel like on the other side of music, I do kind of live in vision of life, you feel me? So like I ain't going out like that. You ain't about to work me like that. You know what I'm saying? So if it do, they know who I'm with. You know what I'm saying? So I just keep, I'll keep the little women, because you know it's different nowadays. Like, it's different. I'm saying the kid with the girls into nowadays, they live accents.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. But look, like to me personally, like, I took if if you asked me 20 years ago, where would I be now? This where I'm at now is probably the last place I would have told myself I would have been at right now because I would have been married, kids, working.
SPEAKER_03How did you go so I always ask people this question how did you go, you don't have any kids, right?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_03How did you go so like, I don't know, we gotta have the disability in the girl.
SPEAKER_01I really do, I really do. I first I personally get you good.
SPEAKER_06Because you go so like you gotta talk about protection. Like, they don't want to wake up with them just.
SPEAKER_01I really do. They they they hate me. But look, I'm I'm real talking about the best, the best, I promise you the best answer I can give you. I have two answers. But the best, I'm gonna give you both of them. But the best one I can give you is pull out kings, 100, right? If you if you if you in NBA 2K, 22, 23, 24, I'm LeBron on that shit, you heard me? Per me had a three-point line, you heard it? That thing comes out ahead of time. I'm good. But that's a split second thing. Very split second. But um the real answer is this, right? When I was younger, um my grandmother, my grandmother raised me since I was three days old. Right? So my grandmother raised six of her children and then five grandkids, right? So she when we when we was at the age that we was like starting having dealing with females and stuff like that, she would tell me, like, when you bring, she said, don't bring no kids in this house. I raise mine, I raised y'all. I ain't raising no more. Mind you, at this moment she telling me all this, she's still buying me Jordans. Oh, okay. So you telling me I can't get no Jordans. So by-Cause you gotta buy the baby Jim Jordans? Oh, they ain't gonna be no baby. You feel what I'm saying? Because I need my Jordans, you heard? I need mine, you feel what I'm saying? So that's simple. I would literally walk in the house with a female and she'd be like, the lady, like, hey, Miss Hall, she would look at me, look at the female, look back at me. I ain't raising no kids. It's like, damn, I ain't wearing no pussy. You wearing them Jimmy Hash drum out. I ain't getting no pussy now. You feel what I'm saying? So I'm now that stuck with me at that moment. Like, if I ain't ready to take on that full responsibility at the time, I didn't do it. But now, that's only at that time. Now, being that I'm older now, I can take care of the responsibility. It just came to the point where I want the right person now. Like, I need to now I need to get to know me. I mean, if I make it this far and just get a dummy, yeah, oh, you might as well take me out of here. Take me out of here. What the fuck I did all that learning for? I went to college for six years and I was and I'm still going to jail. What the fuck I went to college for?
SPEAKER_06You feel what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Let me just intervene on that though. I know you you narrated this whole thing. I mean, this this is yo, you do this too. Right, right. What who what makes the right person though?
SPEAKER_01There's no such thing as the right person. Right, right. I'm just understanding. The right person is the right person. The right person is the right person for you. Right. Not the right person for the world. Who gives a fuck? Hey, yo, listen, she used to be a whore. But the way me and her, the meme hair bond is perfectly great. Right. And it works for us. Like, she understands me. Like, I can deal with somebody I walk in the house with and she makes a hundred thousand a year, but she don't give a fuck about my dad. Right. Right. This this whore chick that used to be a whore to the hood, but with with me, she got food waiting for me. She wants to talk to me. She cares about what's going on with me. Like, she knows how to rub me, hold me, and like, and I don't like it. But at the end of the day, like, I used to be a whore. I might per I might still be. You feel what I'm saying? Like, that's out of question. You feel what I'm saying? Like, I make you feel good. Right. We that means we can a lot of people aren't only whores because they don't have people that they they need to do what they need to do for till they meet that person. You feel what I'm saying? Like, we all have a past somehow, some way, whatever it is. Like, a motherfucker be Muslim. If I don't like you, could you Muslim, but then I don't like no Muslim. But this, I like this nigga. You feel what I'm saying? That's what a girl could be thinking. Like, now she's accepting that. You feel what I'm saying? Like, her last dude could have been Muslim. She didn't get Muslim for him, but she got Muslim for him. You feel what I'm saying? So that means he did something different. So it's everybody has different things. So I don't care about past too much unless unless it's a lot of trains on you. If we have one on sex with a lot of people, I feel ten on sex with a lot of people. You feel what I'm saying? Now you don't know ten on sex with a lot of people. That's what I'm saying, like shit like that. Right. And I think for me, man, it was. Yeah, I need your perspective. I mean, I'm learning from you. Oh bro, it's a lot, like, like, so a lot of people think that it was like love at first sight. Like, there's a thing for that. For me, it wasn't, right? Like, it was always about the growing into the space, right? So, like, I've been I've been in counselor since I met my wife, right? So when we were together, uh, you know, my mom and my stepdad have been together since I was like one. Uh, and my stepdad used to beat on my mom. And uh, whenever I got angry, I felt that streak coming in. So I'm like, yo, I went to counseling. I'm like, listen, uh I think I like this girl. I think I might want to propose to her at some point. Uh, but I'm scared that I'm gonna hit her. And then we started going to do my background, all the craziness. And I worried that like there was a lot of trauma. There's a lot of trauma that that that was uh that that was connected to it, right? So I knew that I needed to go do a lot of stuff for myself. Like she she my wife has always been like solid, right? Like uh even to the uh no no, but it's like like like she she's been solid for herself, right? But then it's like I need you to be this way for me, right? So uh then then we went to counseling together because essentially you you have a way that you operate, and then humans we change about five years, right? Every five years, and so I'm with her, and we've been we've been married for about 11 years, and it's been we we had to change together, right? Or you had to be willing to do the transformations or whatever. Um which is which is hard, bro. I'm not making it sound like it was just like you know, one off. Yeah, facts. That's a that's a hundred percent fact. And if you're not, if you're not, it's a it's a problem, right? Something wrong, right? You're not allowing yourself to change whatever. Oh, and we went through a lot, and so like um I'm a very lovey, dovey person. If you see me in any any space, I'm hugging on everybody, loving on everybody. And uh my wife is very distant to the point where I will come in and I would like give hugs to everybody in the house when we first walk in. My wife, she'll stand at the door, say hello to everyone, and do her own thing. Right? So, like, there are times where we're in a car and I'm like, yo, babe, listen, people are there, uh, you know, they they they they need that. My mom, mom is there, I need you to make sure you hug my mom. I need you to so we have those conversations. So it's not really like uh, it's not like, oh my gosh, I have a dying love. And it's like, yo, you got me, and I appreciate that. Like, we we rockin together, we love each other, we we're there for one another, and we're gonna have those difficult conversations, and we're gonna hold each other accountable. We're gonna right, it's it's very homelaic. And this is the I think this is where we go wrong, though. I think a lot of the times we think that it's like, yo, if she'll love me the round wanted to love me, then it ain't it. Maybe she can't love you right now the way you want need to be loved because she's gone through whatever. Or she has this going on, or she doesn't even know how to do it. So having a lot of people, you know, but like like like she she's a she's a beautiful person. Uh she she's goal oriented, she's a pediatrician, right? So like when we when we think when we think about like our lives, right? When we think about what's necessary, uh, you know, I challenge you. Like, and this is what I challenge myself to do to like figure out what's important, right? And if you want a runaway girl in that school and she she'll hold you down and all that good stuff, it's amazing. Uh but but just know that it comes with other stuff, right? Definitely just like my wife, right? She she's not a runaway girl, but it comes with other stuff, right? And so those are the things that you have to work through and really support each other through. Now, look, right, I'm glad you said that, right? So my whole thing is I'm gonna go back to what you said about the five years everybody changed, right? So now you ever heard about people deal with, like, there's been situations where a guy took care of a girl while she went to school, got her degree, to get wherever she gotta go. Right. Now, that's going to school at least four to six, four to eight years for them to officially be what they need to be. Now, look, you doing the same thing you doing, just say you sold weak. Just say you sold weak for five years, but you made money, those five years somewhere, but she gets a job automatically off the rip that pays her $150,000 a year after you done supported her for all the time and she don't want you no more. It's because the whole time you didn't evolve with her while she was evolving in school. You feel what I'm saying? Like, you're supposed to find a way as a person every day, like, it's no way I wake up and I'm the same person the day before. Or I'm still talking. Hold up, hold up. Y'all outgrew each other. That's the point. That's why people outgrew each other. So now she could be making $500,000 a year and you still making $67,000. I mean, it's cool for what you do, but it's not cool for what she does because that's why you sent her to school. You feel what I'm saying? So you're supposed to build on at least building on something from that to be the same person. That's why every they say every five years. The way I think now, I didn't think about, I didn't think like this five years ago. If I thought about this five years ago, I'd have been 30 years ahead of people. You feel what I'm saying? Like, so they even remember thinking, even when I think about the the day I started rapping, if I literally thought and knew what I know now, the day I started rapping, I wouldn't even be in this room with y'all. You gotta pay me to be in this room. You feel what I'm saying? Like, why would I talk to you ill? You feel that literally that would have been my mindset. You feel what I'm saying? Like, so it's like that's why I'm saying it's a growth pattern for everybody. Like, that's why every five years, the same way you're doing, like, you just we one of the strongest people I know. For all the loss I seen you take, for you to still be how you are and to still for your mind to still be the way it is, right? That's crazy. You feel what I'm saying? Like, for you to still be around, like, I that's the stuff I dealt with years ago. I don't deal with that now because me and Miles ain't in that in that area no more. You feel what I'm saying? Because I done lost the ones I lost in that area, the ones that's still with me. We we moving up. You feel what I'm saying? But you still be in that, like, tomorrow it can be another one. You get what I'm saying? And for you to still get up and still do everything you do, you should be regret. They they owe you a blue heart, bro. Purple heart, whatever the fuck they call that, they get people in the thing.
SPEAKER_04I think a few of us be that up here.
SPEAKER_01I completely agree. Facts.
SPEAKER_04Facts. You feel what I'm saying? So, right? Nah, because anybody's like, no, I never thought about it like that. About the five-year thing, right? So, like, I you say she left him, right? So that wouldn't make her like breezy?
SPEAKER_01Like, that don't make her like some breezy. No, we're talking and see us as niggas, we just believe we live off loyalty. And we think everybody just automatically, but we don't, but at the end of the day, like you're supposed to be like you she supposed to be loyal, like she supposed to be loyal to you, but you not progressing as a person. At the end of the day, you're a human being. Us as niggas think loyalty. As human beings, we're supposed to be regressing every day. Why are you not progressing every day? She's getting up every day going to class, right? She getting up, she she passing all her grades, she getting the highest thing she's supposed to get, right? What are you doing for yourself? Serving another nigga? No, find a way to do something better for you, too. That means like you getting bigger, so when she gets there, she she's watching you. She's watching you. I intend to keep it. What I know, right? It's not gonna be like, yo, one down ahead, the next time I'm out. There are things out there, she's gonna give you signs, you're gonna have conversations about. She can't ask you to do certain things. And the more that you, you know, uh deflect or you tell her I'm not doing X, Y, and Z, it it kind of that's what draws the watch. Not necessarily the fact that you are a door where you what you need to do, right? It's the fact that you're disconnected from that the expectations for the for the for the for the relationship. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's why it's important for each person to grow as an individual, because I just think it's a science to it. If each person grows individually, either you'll grow apart or you'll grow together. Either way, you'll land where you need to land. Right. Period. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04100% rolls that don't happen.
SPEAKER_03Legacy. What y'all fellas want your legacy to be? You know? And sometimes we can't get a hold on it because we're so in it. But like when I'm able to tell each of you things about about yourselves from the outside, I think that's kind of like a good gauge on like where your legacy is going. Like, we're talking about the positive shit. Fuck all the, you know, fuck all the people that that that resent you, resent you and hate you, but legacy. What is your legacy gonna be?
SPEAKER_02I did it, right? No, I'm saying, well, for me, you know, the things that I'm into and uh what I demand and what I give out to the universe, you know, is what I expect back. So for the most part, man, it's just knowing that my legacy is I gave it my all for everybody. You know, I I was I I'm a maintainer, I'm a protector, I'm a provider, you know, I'm a father first, I'm a man, I'm a human first, I'm a man first. And um just just pretty much, you know, just living on and just living in my name. Uh Tony Perkins, uh, right now is the T-O-N-E-Y. Uh okay now. Yeah. But um, just you know what I stand for, my morals, you know what I'm saying? And you know, pretty much to me. It's not it's not much, you know, because me doing the work is gonna speak for itself. You know what I mean? And you know, when a lot of people are one of the most ageless people I know. Like you'll just evolve through each era and be relevant. How do you do that? That's crazy. Like hold, like JJ. Because you already know everything is every everything is uh a mentality. You know definitely that. If I'm thinking, if I'm thinking youthful, I'm gonna be youthful. You know what I mean? But for the most part, you know, I'm trying to exercise every day, you know, inshallah. But um, and that's pretty much it, you know, just trying to keep my mind healthy, surround myself with good people. You know what I mean? And that's the key. Because when I see good brothers like like you guys, it it pushes me. You know what I'm saying, to do well and do and be positive. And the first thing, man, is just love. You know, it's just always just giving love and receiving love and how you receive it. A lot of people talk about love, and we don't know what love really is.
SPEAKER_03And giving it to each other, especially in the others are pause, but just as men, yeah, I'm just used to saying as men giving it to one another, you know what I'm saying? Well, man, that's the illusion.
SPEAKER_00To me, um I think I'll be leaving behind is um I didn't fall victim to my environment, like what the environment provided. I went my own way. And I think and anybody that looks at me or look at my story or what I've done and even the things that I've been a part of all around, is in life I realize we have choices and I made mine. So you got your street names, and you got your sidewalk names. And you got some people that try to be in the middle, and that's why they get caught up. And I learned that there's a difference. Very good point. I learned that there's a difference, and um, you know, I chose the sidewalk. It's like, for what? Because at the end of the day, what I learned about conservation is um in most cases, some people don't learn from it. Only thing it does is set their time back. But one thing that my uncle taught me, traveled my uncle John, too. He said, Yo, your life is like a sand clock, right? So when you're born, it's turned upside down. And no matter you go to jail, laying down with a chick in the studio, playing basketball, the sand is gonna keep dripping to the end. And when it gets to the end, you're gonna die. Right. It's just like written. So if you understand your life is like that, it don't matter what you do, it don't matter what you do in life, the clock is gonna keep going. You know what I'm saying? So I understand that you have a choice. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03Yo, hold on, you got a very good point in DB and Cash Out. And I'm not singling you out, but just in case I am talking about.
SPEAKER_05I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03I got that for Navy C but um because of without being, you know, we all know everyone's background. Yeah, whatever. I have I always get into this, like, not debate, but this discussion. Like being from the street and being a street dude. Like, you can't tell me I'm not from the street. So when I when I have these discussions with people like my brother, my brother been like 150 million times, and I be trying to tell him, like, yo, bro, he be explaining shit to me like, bro, I'm I'm I had it harder than you. I'm from the street. Now my mentality might be different, but there's a there's a thing where it's like some people, based on nothing's a nevacue. Based on circumstances, what you gotta do to survive, I don't knock it. But I think it's more of a not always a choice, but more of a mentality versus versus who you are. Like, because you can't tell me I'm not from the street. I've been outside 12 years old. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00Because people will say if you didn't sell or stand on the corner, you're not a street. And it's nigga that's on the corner that's not a street. That's a lie.
SPEAKER_01That's a lie right there. Because what it is, like, we all grew up in the same thing. The the best thing y'all, the best thing y'all did is, like you said, y'all didn't fall victim. You feel what I'm saying? Like, everybody has their own reasons for why they did fall victim, or if they didn't. You feel what I'm saying? Like, you can use it to be the the stepping stool to not do it. Then you can use it to, nigga, this is what I had to fucking do. You feel what I'm saying? Like, so it's like who I I can't be mad at a person that he's from the project. Exactly. And he ran for mayor. Bro, I'm from the hood. I ran my hood. And I I wish I could run for mayor. You feel what I'm saying? Like, like, like I'm jealous. You feel what I'm saying? Like, I would like I will call myself that, but no, I can't personally ever do that in my life. You feel what I'm saying? For him to actually do that, shit's fucking beautiful. You feel what I'm saying? Like, I'm behind him without him even knowing I'm behind him. You feel what I'm saying? So it just is what it is for a lifestyle. So it's like everybody take their choice, but when you take that choice, you gotta remember what you are actually doing it for when you actually do it. You feel it. You feel what I'm saying? Like, a lot of people do it for the wrong reasons. That's why they street niggas, and that's why they end up being whoever they they can be a casualty or the other side or whatever because they're doing it just because everybody else is doing it. When you actually doing it for what you do and stick to what you're doing, that's like that's like going to college. Like, I'm going to college to be an architect, I'm not. But I'm if I was going to college to be an architect. You are, though. You are an interesting fact. That's what I thought I was gonna be with a little, but that's another story. Yo, if I was going to college to be an architect and I actually become an architect, alright, cool. I went to college to be an architect, but I met him and then he told me about engineering, and then, oh shit, would that make that much money? Alright, fuck that. I'm about to be an engineer. You feel what I'm saying? Like, it's different, but it's still a learning experience. You feel what I'm saying? Like, but then he motherfuckers get in the street and then get a whole, like, I'm broke, I'm tired of being broke, I'm tired of everybody cracking on me, I'm tired of everybody talking about me. But then you finally get money and just want bald forever and then want to do this shit for 10 years. No, bro. That ain't gonna work. That's not gonna, but that's not it. You feel what I'm saying? Like, remember what your end goal is, get what you gotta get, and get the fuck out of here. This don't last for nobody.
SPEAKER_03And I'm like, yo, bro, your mother is a could be a fucking doctor, your mother a teacher. I'm like, bro, I wish I had that. You feel me? I'm like, when you get caught up in it, it's like you said, it's a difference from like, is this what you had to do, or is this like you looking for acceptance and validation from people?
SPEAKER_01Majority is looking for acceptance. So I a hustle. You know where I hustle at? I hustle on Armstrong. Well, where are you Armstrong? I fuck with them, so I fuck with you.
SPEAKER_03No. That's a conversation that I think goes, it gets overlooked because if those people had the validation, I think it would be a little more authentic authenticity to what we look at. I'm glad you said that. Back to legacy, whoever wants to talk about legacy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, we can talk about my legacy right now, right? I mean, you know, we have a it's you should go a little more deeper than Bible, so I'm gonna let's go after it. I'm not I'm not gonna go behind you, I gotta go in front of you before. Hey yo, my legacy is this, right? Like how I felt that, like how I always felt, like, when I used to, when I used to be in the streets, right? I used to really believe, and it's crazy, I think about this now, like being older. Like, I really believe I was gonna be a best drug dealer in the world. Like Me too? Like, I'm it's wow, like, I don't even know how I thought about that, but I really used to think about that, like, yo, you know what's crazy? I'm about to be the best in the world. Like, nobody, like, they're gonna make, they're gonna make DVDs about me. You feel what I'm saying? Like, like I really thought about that, like, and then I get older, I was like, yeah, you're bugging. Like, why do you like, what the fuck? What? First charge, how you think about that? Like, nigga, what? You think about it? You think about it, right? So now, me coming into music, like, even when I got into music, when I first got into music, I never talked about my street life and music because my street life is so wild, it's like, I don't want to relive that. Like, I'm trying to run away from that. That's why I was traumatized, like, for real, like PTSD. Like, same thing a soldier got, I had that. You feel what I'm saying? Same that it's still stuff to this day I'm never gonna talk about in my life because they fucked me up from then. You feel what I'm saying? So now, like, to even have a mural room, like, I literally live six houses down from my mural, right? I literally get up every day and walk to the corner store to get a coffee or a tea and say, morning, morning, morning.
SPEAKER_02Morning, morning, morning.
SPEAKER_01Morning, morning, morning. Just cause of that reason. You feel what I'm saying? It's not even say it in front of you for that reason, it's just to see it for me personally. You feel what I'm saying? Like, and then that'd be the thing that like like that that's never that's not even supposed to be there. You feel what I'm saying? Like, so now like, even if it don't, even if it don't be there forever, you feel what I'm saying? Like, I'm changing up my whole family way of living. Like, there are no celebrities in my family. There is no music people in my family. Nobody in my family ever did music in their life, you feel what I'm saying? But like, I'm gonna make it better for my family. Like, if we if we already know for this, I'm just gonna make it, I'm gonna change the narrative and make it a little better. So it's like, we love now. Like, I want my house on Stagnant to be the Motown House. You know what that means? When everybody go to Detroit, they have to stop at the Motown house and take that picture in front of that house. Like, I don't want us living there. Yeah, I just want it to be that house where we ain't gonna never change the way that motherfucker looks. But when you come there, yo, yo, take me around there. Like, yo, I'm around. Click, click, click, click. Ah, you feel what I'm saying? Like, make that shit into a museum. Like, that's my like we we own that. You feel what I'm saying? Like, that's ours. Like, no matter how many times they slip that note in our motherfucking mailbox, get out of here. This it, you feel what I'm saying? Like, you know what I mean? Like, so we should be making a way. So I'm working so hard every day that we can all live wherever we live at, but nobody else ain't gonna own that bitch no more. Right. But us. Right.
SPEAKER_04That's definitely a trenches landmark. Yeah. I don't know the house, but I'm gonna go by.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's nothing. We right by, you're gonna know so you right by it. Forever. Forever.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01What's the I just again? So they don't know. Nah, they're gonna find out later. You almost got me. You almost got me. That's a street guy. But that's that's that's another thing that messed me up with a lot of situations too, because my street life keeps me so keep me so coveted. You feel what I'm saying? So that's a good word right there. All right, so now being that um it keeps me like that, it's like I still don't know how to treat certain people certain times when I'm when I talk to them like so. That's why a lot of things be like this. Like my last interview was with um Tone, but I knew Tom forever. You feel what I'm saying? So I just had to, I just wanted to give him what like it's some, I can do interviews with certain people and I don't care. But then it's like him, like, nah, I'm gonna give him what he needs. You feel what I'm saying? Pause. So I'm um, yeah. I don't I don't I don't know what he really needs, so I gotta say pause. He might need something else. I don't want to give him that, but I'm gonna give him what I think he needs.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what it means, but I'm gonna get a little bit more.
SPEAKER_03Just to the record, we all exclusive. I didn't think to have a part of the uh I don't even know LGB. I didn't think to have a member on the on the panel, but next time we will be respectful and hey, yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, no, it's like it's it's good to me, it's good it's good to have them around, but like so so I so I'm just like I'm gonna I just give people the best me they can give, you feel what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06So when they get me, they that's so that's whatever you wrong with that is all your record, and like yeah, somebody gotta see that you didn't spend some money to put the house.
SPEAKER_02Before we get into the next one, man, uh I just want to uh speak about whatever. Legacy before I just I just want to thank, you know, because I had the pleasure of sitting with all these guys up here, you know. Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_01But no, you have to sit with him. He needs a one-on-one with him.
SPEAKER_02Right. I sat with him for a lot of years. No, no, no, he needs to be in that platform, right? He's in the platform. Yeah, yeah. And we definitely will make that happen. But uh, I just want to highlight that, and I had the opportunity to sit with all of these brothers, man, and uh get a different perspective on what they go through and what they bring to the table and all that. So I'm thankful for that, man. Uh, whose legacy is next?
SPEAKER_03Yo, Kat, I remember when you was little, yo, I remember he used to have like the swamps on. The uh, you know, like the like the tan ones that you brought me. Yeah, not tied up, rough as hell, like dirty as well. I can't never seen a nigga go run in swamps that wasn't terrible.
SPEAKER_01That's young little shit. They get good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's the walking. But he was rough, man, but it speaks to his strength. That's on you, Space.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. All right, uh, legacy. Uh my sons, man. Um, I I knew that uh I wanted to have amazing children, right? I I I knew how I was raised and how I didn't want to be raised without uh how I was raised without my dad, and I didn't want to create that the same cycle. Right? I I saw what he did to me. I hated that nigga. Like I like legit, like I told myself a daddy died. I filmed. Yeah, I feel if he if he if he died, I would never go to his uh funeral. Uh word, right? So uh towards towards the end of his life, uh, he died in 2012. We got better, like we got closer. It was through therapy though. Uh and uh I went I went to church and this this this minister said, uh, you know, hatred is like you know, drinking poison and expecting someone else to die from it. And so essentially I was I was drinking a lot of poison and I was I wanted him to die by me while I was killing myself, right? So essentially uh I decided to like build a relationship with him and I was like, yo, you worrying my life. He was like, yo, I bought you a Nintendo when you were six. I was like, what? I'm I'm dirty. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm I'm uh I was I was like 24 or something like that. Uh and so we we worked through that through counseling, and then uh I'm like yo, I would never do that to my kids, man. I never want anybody else in this world to feel the way that I felt about it, right? And so, you know, uh my legacy would be my amazing uh boys right now. I can hear it in your voice. When you talked about your puck, I can hear it. Yeah, and and I'm rocking with him. Yo, and the funny thing is though, like uh he was a man like me, man. Like when I got older, I was able to understand, like, yo, I wouldn't make any decisions that he made, but as a man, I understand it. It's weird, man. Like a lot of people. I didn't understand it as a child, but I understood it as a man. Like a lot of people can't take it. There was a lot of grace that I provided him with, and we built a solid relationship prior to him dying. Uh, and you know, I think about him often these days, right? Because I have two boys now, and I know that he would have done a better job with them than he did with me. You know what I'm saying? Uh, and so um, and also whenever I think about that, that's my legacy with my kids. Um, but then also with uh I think about from a biblical perspective of five two one. Uh uh there was a parable in the Bible about uh five talents, two talents, one talent. Uh the the one who got I five brought back double. The one at four did the same, and one who had one didn't do anything. Like they he gave them back the one. And it basically they they that the person with the one talent who gave it back was like the guy was like, yo, I gave you this so that you could multiply it. And you you just hid it under a bushel. And so essentially, uh my life, man, I want the talents I have to be multiplied for the world to experience. And that's essentially what I'm doing right now.
SPEAKER_03Damn. Damn, I want that, young.
SPEAKER_01Told me some new shit, guys.
SPEAKER_02I just wonder, uh just piggyback off of that, you know, as far as your pops and you know, our parents in general. You know, uh, I had seen somebody posted something on social media one day, man. It was it was crazy. It was like um forgive your parents. They was learning too. I think I put it like that that kind of like resonated with me like heavy. Because it's things that I say, you know, like we talk about hustling and being street people and grinding and on your grind, you know. I can say, you know, coming up, I was I was really, really fortunate. You know what I mean? Definitely. I had definitely you know, and you know, it's not I had everything I needed. You know what I mean? Not everything I wanted, I had everything I needed. You know what I mean? And I thought, like, I tell my mom and my dad sometimes a day, like, yo, man, y'all kind of like hurt me in that sense. You know what I'm saying? Having the latest sneakers all the time and all that kind of stuff. And now today, as an adult, not now, but years ago, it killed my my grind. You know what I mean? And my hustle. You know what I'm saying? Opposed to somebody who I went to school with in 38 school who was always playing hooky, and now I see them today. They got trucking companies and their grind is crazy and they doing well for reselking. You know what I'm saying? And it I yeah, it's just a lock, man. But uh this is uh you know I want to say that. That's what it is.
SPEAKER_01That's real though. That's that's that's real, though.
SPEAKER_00That's an inverse blessing, right? And why I say that is because a person who's not giving butt so much understands what it takes to want to get home because they don't even like feeling like that no more. But a person that was blessed with the hey, that's what you want. I got you. I got you. I got it. And then people don't realize that that cripples you to a point where you become the homeless person or that lost soul in the world. You like, ah shit, this person ain't here no more. I don't know nothing but that handout.
SPEAKER_01But see, I'm glad you said that because that's my whole main reason for a I say this to people, I don't know how people feel about it, I don't care how they feel about it either, but I feel like there should be a class somewhere in the world, at college, high school, wherever it should go at, there should be a street class, right? A street class meaning like people need to know street knowledge. Like, like I know it's fucked up, but I know when a nigga gonna walk up on me with a gun on hand. You feel what I'm saying? Like, I know how this girl ain't shit. I shouldn't be going with her tonight. You feel what I'm saying? Like, like it's it's it's certain things like the streets taught me. Like, I went to school, like I got great grades through grammar school, great grades through high school. I didn't go to college. I I tried it for a semester, it didn't work for me. But I learned more from the streets. Like, just say four years from the streets taught me more than I once I know how to count and read, what the fuck I was trying to teach me. You feel what I'm saying? Like, but I thought the streets taught me so much more to be on point for all types of stuff that be on like like the how I treat a person, how I whatever, whatever. You know what I mean? So I feel like there should be a class for that because that teaches you type of stuff like that, but to be on point where you don't look at it like, like you said, like how your um, if you grew up, just say even if you grew up rich, but then you took a street class, it was still putting different perspective in your head to how to think, like, all right, now you understand him. He could have been your best friend, but you grew up in Bayonne. He grew up on Wilkerson, you feel what I'm saying? So now, why, why, why does he want to be outside doing what he does when you know he telling you he wants some Jordans? You telling, like, you told your mother, yo, I want some Jordans, they be in the house waiting for you the next day. He gotta hustle all week to get some Jordas, you feel what I'm saying? So your Jordans, you running around dirty in them up the same day. His shit's clean for six months. You get what I'm saying? Like, it's a reason for that because he had to work hard for those. You didn't. They was given to you. So you don't give a fuck if you put them on and go play in a in a construction site and fuck them up the next day. Like, you don't get up for they'll buy you another pair the next ones. He knows he ain't got another pair coming to him until he makes the money to make another one. That's why I feel like certain shit like that should be tricked, like it should be like an F class. Like, you feel what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00That's why people value things differently, though. Because, like, for example, I remember my aunt telling me this um to not judge the Chinese man who will deliver Chinese food and he wearing some cut-up uh Walmart jeans. It's like, yo, if you think about it, right? And maybe you correct me if I'm wrong, the mentality of people who never really have much, in most cases, it makes their self-esteem low. So naturally, this is why they say we wear chains. This is why they say we wear it. This is my price car. It's a conversation. That is a mental issue. And like you say, I just compliments for saying that does make sense because the less that you feel like you have, the more you gotta work for it, and the more you say, Man, I'm flashing this shit. Everybody see what happens. My legacy. I need to turn this around on you, but you're an interesting guy, man.
SPEAKER_03You're gonna layer. I I wear my layers because I'm so calm and my demeanor is so calm, but I'm a layered motherfucker, man. Supper be supper. Summer or a new one, yeah. Okay, tumultuous supper.
SPEAKER_00Tumultuous. I I give you your flowers physically all the time, or we speak on the phone in person, but on camera, Ivan is an amazing father.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I had met Ivan at a showcase in New York. I thought he was from New York. And this one he was like going hard as an artist. And one thing that I want to tell you publicly is that I admire is I seen you on the mixtakes, the covers, right? I seen you oversized folding, like back in the day, and you was that guy, and you had a different mentality. And the fact that you was able to transition without those elements of a household, right? Because the mother-father's 50-50, you still 100%, and you give each one of your kids, you're 100% appreciate it. I respect that. I just want to tell you that. Because a lot of times people say you a lot of things behind the scenes on the phone and all that, but publicly. Same reason why I shouted you on my IG, because when I look at you, I'm like, yo, for the things that I even was missing growing up, naturally, and this is how a lot of people in the like don't I say in the streets that are halfway on the side, walk, halfway on the street. And some things I don't know and wasn't taught. And it's only but so much that a female could teach a young man. So I look at my peers, people like you, my cousin Bullby, Terrence, and shot to him. I like to see what y'all do, which I care. So I just want to tell you, like, you appreciate that. Appreciate that.
SPEAKER_03I appreciate that hug. Um, damn, that's my legacy, right? But I try, I want to be more than just a father, you know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, it's like it's about me too. So I think my legacy will be um, I just want people to know that I was just a strong motherfucker. I mean, I don't wear my scars, you know what I mean? Uh I don't look for validation. Um, I'm confident, I'm secure. I wasn't born like that. I I evolved into that. And you got some stories. Yeah, I got some stories, man, that people probably wouldn't even believe if I told them. But I just want people to understand that there's strength that comes behind this, this. You know what I mean? Like my mentality, you'll never know. I'm like Kobe under here. You know what I mean? Like, and I think it was something I get a lot from what you say. Um, you said it in your interview about just like if there's something I want, I'm going to get it. Facts. You know what I mean? And that's my mentality. That's right. That's what my legacy will be. And I'm not gonna stop until I get what the fuck I want. That's it.
SPEAKER_04Or oh, you don't stop, yeah. I learned a lot today, man. Oh, what's the more passive cash? Call us out. Some crazy, crazy stuff. We're gonna turn out to be some alright, you know what I'm saying? They older man, we're young people, you know what I'm saying? They done turn out to be some nice old guys, man.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, facts, facts, facts. Hey man, before before let me, I just wanted to highlight, man, this guy, man. Facts. I had this guy in 34 school, man, and you know, it's no better feeling than no better feeling than that. I never thought in a million years we would be sharing this platform together right now, and then proud of you.
