Fact Check Your Emotion | Elevate Within Roundtable

Fact check your emotion. That's the practical heart of this week's Architecture of Reinvention Roundtable, where host Sandy Davis and co-host Claudia Cuevas, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, dig into the guilt thread that ran through Amanda Maloney's episode. 

Sandy and Claudia explore why women carry guilt no matter what choice they make; work guilt, money guilt, vacation guilt, motherhood guilt and trace it back through generational and societal conditioning. Claudia explains why guilt functions so effectively as a tool of control: women are raised to stay attuned to emotion in a way men typically are not, which makes guilt an easy lever to pull, intentionally or not.

Claudia walks through a real example of misreading a stranger's expression at a party, illustrating the gap between what we feel and what is actually true. Sandy shares a personal story from years ago about a moment at a red light, a man in a wheelchair, and a stranger who stopped to help him and the silence that followed as she realized how much her own environment had shaped her instinctive reaction. 

Claudia introduces a simple, repeatable tool: the guilt versus regret question. They close with a direct conversation about what it actually means to give yourself permission to feel joy without guilt attached.

What You Will Hear in This Episode

Why guilt is a lose-lose battle no matter which choice a woman makes.

The generational and societal roots of women's guilt, and why it functions as an effective form of control.

A real example of separating an emotional reaction from the actual facts of a situation.

A personal story about environment, instinct, and unexpected guilt.

The guilt versus regret question, a practical daily tool for any decision.

What it means to give yourself permission to feel joy without guilt attached.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I was like, you know, oh this there's so many women out there. I'm like, our poor moms. I'm like, we have so much guilt, so much, you know. And that was like part of the Catholic upbringing. It's like, oh my gosh, the guilt that comes with I was guilty when I worked. I was guilty when I didn't work. I was guilty when I wanted to, you know, do something for myself. I was guilty when we didn't have the money to, you know, go on these old average vacations that you're watching on, you know, the highlight rails of social media and you know, every vacation coming and going, like the kids' school breaks and oh, like, are we going away? It's like, oh, you know, it's like you have all that guilt, constant guilt. And I'm like, I gotta do something because there's no need for it. It's like we can, we're all chasing to find like, you know, I'm gonna be happy when. Like when this happens, then I'm gonna live a life I love. Or when this, you know, once I have the money, then it's gonna be great. And it's like, no, it's not. You're gonna be the same person when you have the money. It's like if you go to, you know, a fancy restaurant and have champagne and you're sitting there with the same group of people you always saw, you're gonna be that same person as if you were sitting on a park bench having a picnic, you know, with a soda. It's like you'll your identity doesn't change. And that's what I think people were always chasing, chasing like the ifs and the and the wins.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Each week, I'm joined by my co-host Claudia Cuevas, licensed marriage and family therapist, as we explore the stories, lessons, and emotional realities behind transformation. Because reinvention isn't just about changing our circumstances, it's about understanding yourself. It's about healing, it's about letting go of who you thought you had to be so you can become who you were always meant to be. Pull up a chair and join us at the table. This is Elevate Within. Hey Claudia, how's it going? It's going. Life is lifing. Life is life and yes. We are here to talk about in this week's episode of The Architecture of Reinvention. We heard the story of Amanda Maloney, a story about guilt, joy, motherhood, self-worth, and creating a life you love before everything is fixed. So, ladies, today Claudia and I are going to take a deeper look at some of the themes that emerge from that conversation and explore what they can teach us about healing, growth, identity, and the messy middle. So, Claudia, just jumping right into it, Amanda talked a lot about guilt, work guilt, mom guilt, money guilt, vacation guilt. Why do so many women carry guilt no matter what choice that they make?

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah. I think that's a really common topic when it comes to women, right? Uh especially nowadays, because there's this sense of like we should have it all. Um we should be able to do it all, but really we don't have a roadmap of how to do that. And so to have it all, something is going to suffer. There's you're gonna have to negotiate what gets less of your attention. There's only so much of you. And so um, you know, I always want to explore where's that, you know, where's that guilt coming from? Is it generational? Is that like a family thing that happens? Is it religious, right? Are you is that the kind of background that comes? Is that part of like the system that you're working with? Um how often has guilt been utilized for you, right? In order to comply and get you to do things? So is that a negotiation that has happened throughout your childhood that you get guilted into doing something? Um, and so it just becomes second nature of like that is that is how I do things. And so now I not only is it happening from an outside source, now I do it to myself. I now am guilt tripping myself in order to be successful, get things done, get things accomplished. I might be able to multitask even more because I tell myself, like, come on, we can do that. Don't, you're gonna you're gonna regret it, you're gonna, you know, kind of thing. So really about exploring where that's coming from.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

You know, I uh just had a thought when you were talking about so for for guilt, I'm also thinking about society. You know, what if a woman was sexually assaulted? It was like, well, what were you wearing?

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

What time was it? You know, were you drinking? You know, how were you acting? Um, you know, that's a a I know an extreme example, but I think just through society and and time, where, you know, women, you know, going back to like our grandparents where they were allowed to work. And it was like, oh my God, you're working and you have children at home.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

You know, that was like a mid, you know, a big thing. So isn't it isn't the guilt, couldn't it also be like just gen not just generational, but also another condition, but given the times, and aren't we still experiencing that today with society?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

100%. I mean it it history is repeating itself. So we're gonna talk about generational guilt, right? Women are taught to be very attuned to their emotions. That is not how men are raised, right? They're raised to compartmentalize, stuff it, be productive, active, do that stuff. Women, we are raised, whether we want to admit it or not, to be very attuned to emotions. And so because that is easily, we're easily available, guilt is just an emotion. It is something you feel, it is not something that is. Right. And so we're much easier to manipulate that way.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

So you were gonna dive into like historically, you know, going through history and like how I feel like we're we're going backwards, you know, especially sh we are, right? Because, you know, for a lot of states, women have lost the rights to their bodies. And um, you know, for some, not just their bodies, but also voting. And it's like, hey, our grandparents fought for those rights. And it's not that far back. That's why I'm like, no, not our great greats. Our grandmothers. Oh, yeah. And our mothers, you know, so then going back to historically, like, you know, there are women that are still alive that couldn't own a home unless they had a man's signature, couldn't get a cr a credit card, you know, couldn't work. Um, and if you are working, then if you have children at home, it's that guilt, you know, and Amanda brought it up, like, oh, I'm guilty if I work, I'm guilty if I don't work, you know, and also bringing up the financial aspect of the guilt, where it's like, hey, you know, she was talking about she had to make sure all the bills were paid and that, you know, beginning of the month anxiety be like, oh, so all the money we made now is gonna go out the door. Um how does that fit in for for women? Is that also like a part of guilt where we're also taking on everything and thinking about the history? Is that all like rolling into what uh the bigger version of guilt is?

SPEAKER_02 7:44

I mean, we're we're just repeating the same cycles over and over again. We unfortunately haven't evolved that much beyond our emotions. And so, like I said, it is a really easily available form of manipulation when you kind of think about it historically. I'm talking about societal here, right? No matter what cultural background you come from, the role of the one women, it's pretty self-explanatory, right? And so once you start trying to get away from some of those traditional expected roles, the easiest way to kind of manipulate is through guilt. And so that, you know, that is gonna be something we have to learn to kind of set a boundary with, right? We talked about last time about boundaries, right? Really being self-aware, um, because that is going to be used against us consistently because we're we have an emotional connection because that is just how traditionally we have been raised to be aware of. And so, really, kind of how do we become conscious of that? How do we not lose our identity by wanting to work, choosing not to have children, uh, choosing to leave our jobs and become entrepreneurs or be or become stay-at-home moms, um, have you know, have children, have many children. Those are, I mean, whatever way it's like, oh, you didn't go to school, you didn't, why aren't you having a career? And then you have a career. It's like, why didn't you have children? I mean, it's a lose-based battle.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

It's a lose-lose battle. Right. Whatever decision we make, there's gonna be guilt behind it.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yes, because it's an emotion. It is a tactic to manipulate. Intentionally or not, right? Um, I mean, with our political climate, we even see that, right? Like stand by your man, like women don't, you know, whatever political you are with, you you're gonna, you know, the expectation is whatever your man is, that's what you are. Right. And you vote accordingly. And so it is once we start really seeing how much guilt is linked to an emotion, then we understand how easily manipul it could be used to manipulate. Unintentionally or intentionally setting boundaries, right? Really, really uh understanding that it's an emotion, right? Sad, glad, mad, guilt, shame, emotion. It's not a fact. And so one of the things that I do in my practice is that I really start getting people versed with what's the difference between a fact and an emotion. So just because you feel it does not mean it's real. Right. So let me give you an example. I tod today, let's just say I wake up, I'm not feeling good, I'm feeling a little heavy, I'm feeling a little bloated, I, you know, I'm not feeling, I have to go to a party. I I'm not feeling too confident in what I'm wearing. I'm, you know, I'm just I'm going through it, but I'm gonna show up and I I gotta go. If I see another woman look at me and, you know, look at me up and down in my head, if I'm not feeling uh good about myself and my issue is I have a weight issue, whatever, I can say to myself, I knew it, she's criticizing me, I look horrible, I don't like what I look like, I shouldn't have come, like, oh well, how dare I wear this, you know, dress constantly, right? I feel that she is criticizing me because I'm looking at her, I see her look me up and down, I see it, and I have now read her mind and know exactly what she's talking about.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Later out throughout the party, she comes up and says, Oh my god, I love your dress. I was eyeing it. Yeah, where did you get it? There was it was gone. I didn't want it. Two things can happen with now that I have the facts, I can go, oh my gosh, I totally misread that. Oh my god, okay, it doesn't no nobody cares, right? Like I could just have that self-talk of like, okay, I was wrong. I don't need to trust that. I can I can say I felt it, but it's not real. Like I I invented it. Or I can say, but I know what she was talking about. She she feels bad.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

I know a lot of women that do.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

She caught I caught her, and so now she came because she's that is all on you. That person has nothing to do with it. Right crossed her mind for two seconds, right? The work is being able to recover from those thoughts. To say, you know what? It was a feeling, it's not a fact, I was not having a good day. I kind of took a personal, I need to like check myself and take a deep breath and move on with my day, or I can let it ruin my life for that day. That one instant. It's we all we have control over that.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah. No, I totally think I'm thinking about like I don't do it that much. Um I think I'm just at a point in my life where I just don't give a shit. Right. Hey, welcome to the welcome to the 50s. You just don't give a shit. Like, um, and and I feel like I move better. Um, and I don't have the guilt because I always felt like I had a lot of injustices. So, you know, I was like, I'm not carrying that guilt. But at the same token, I think the guilt I did carry was when I would try to be patient, patient, patient, and then, you know, not resolving that issue. And then somebody can come up to me and say one thing that's a trigger, and all of a sudden I'm I'm pissed and I'm I'm angry and I'm lashing out. Then after a while, I'll be like, you know, I lashed out at somebody because they was just like, Sandy, when are you gonna get this done? But in my mind, it was like, I have a thousand things to do. I'm gonna get to it. I'm already arguing with myself, and then somebody comes in and be like, hey, what time is that gonna be done? Why, what do you mean what time? Do I not submit? And you just go stop me. So it's kind of like that that same scenario.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Oh, the worst part is when they're like, whoa, you're like, oh yeah. Dang it. Dang it.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

We do it a lot. We do it a lot. Um, I'll share a quick story, and and Taina's gonna get pissed, but this is a guilt thing. And I think it had to do also with our environment when we were talking about it. So uh we're in the car, we're at the light, there's a Jeep on one side, and the car on the other side, and there's this guy in a wheelchair, and he's trying to make his way across the street. Like he's almost like using his feet to kind of roll over. I was only living here a year at the time. Yeah. So Tana's from Brooklyn, I'm from the Bronx, Yonkers. So in our heads, it's just different. We're in more of a rush. So I'm looking at the light, even though I'm first, along with these other cars. First thing that comes to my mind is you better hurry up. This light is about to turn green. Are you taking a sweet ass time? And then this lady in the Jeep, she gets out, her car door is open, she goes and she pushes and helps him across the street in the wheelchair. And I'm looking at the vehicle, like Keith, the Jeep is on, she helps him across. Me and Taina looking, and we see her get back in the car, and we were silent. The line, the light turned green. We were silent for a few minutes. And it was just like, I did not think of that scenario.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Did not have an option, huh?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Did not at one time did we not think we should get out and help him across the street. It was like, yo, the light is about to turn as if we were going, as if I was gonna step on the gas while he was in the middle of the walkway in a wheelchair. So this was, you know, 17 years ago, and then we brought it up a few weeks ago. And I said, you know what, T, the reason why we felt so guilty is because we never seen that. So in Brooklyn or Newark, Jersey City, you cannot get out your car without somebody hopping in and taking off with your car. Yeah. So my reaction when I saw the lady get out of her car was like, yo, your door's open, you, your your car is on. Someone can just jump in your car and go at the same token. So that was my my first take. Two, it's also that survival, that street hustle is like, yo, survival to fittest, get your ass across the street. We don't care if you not and not to say we don't care, but as New Yorkers, this is like, yo, hurry up and get across the street. We wasn't going nowhere important. I think we were going to get something to eat.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So, two, we were, I was living in Vista at the time. There's, I mean, there's people who were on horseback. Right? It's a really nice neighborhood, and yet we were stuck in the New York. And she said, But seeing, I remember how quiet we were when we watched that lady do that. And it was like it took us a minute to process as we're driving quiet. We were just like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

So is could guilt also be associated with what I just shared, just from our environment and how we were raised?

SPEAKER_02 18:06

I mean, part of like guilt is not a bad emotion. It's necessary. Your anger is necessary, right? Sadness is net, joy is necessary. These are all emotions that we need to be able to tap into them because what did it do? Right. This was a great example of like feeling the guilt was the wow, it made me reflect of like I'm I'm I could do better. I can be a better person.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Right?

SPEAKER_02 18:35

I'm an army, but it made you reflect, go, huh. That might have changed from there on and really kind of helped you be in where you were, which is like, I'm in California, I'm in California now, I'm in Vista, I'm not in the Bronx. I'm like, it's such a great tool to use to reflect. We don't we're not trying to avoid guilt. We are trying to make sure that it's used in the best way possible in order for us to become better of who we are, right? Right. And so yeah, we're not we don't want to avoid guilt. We just don't want to overuse it in order to not live our life. But it's it's a 100% necessary emotion, like all emotions are.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

How do women do that? You know, for uh especially for Amanda to like for her at that time, it didn't matter what decision that she made, she there was a guilt behind it. Although, you know, I was very happy to hear that, you know, she was like, I'm not changing anything about, you know, I love my life and and her experience. And and, you know, she's a wonderful woman and and she's has displayed that. Yeah. But for the for for the women like Amanda, where it's like no matter what decision, you're gonna feel that guilt.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

How do they Yeah, they haven't got there. So there's a really uh great exercise that women can utilize or anybody listening can utilize. You can use this with your children if you want to start kind of getting them like emotionally intelligent now and kind of practicing some of these things, right? And so it's like it's what we call the guilt versus regret question. And so you ask yourself, will I regret saying no, not going, uh, you know, setting a boundary, or am I, or do I just feel guilty about saying no? Right. And so really kind of sitting with that question of like, am I reacting to this or will I regret? Right? Because again, guilt is an emotion and regret is information. So we want to really be able to tap into facts, right? Because I could have convinced myself that thing with the the woman who looked at me and said, facts, she looked at me. She, but then if I really explore, like, I don't know what she's thinking, I really don't. And then I can utilize past experiences, right? Your experience with the wheelchair and my experience with the person looking me up and down, of going, ah, that was a good experience of like guilt was was not fact. It was an emotion. And so I really need a fact check it. I always love saying fact check your emotion.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

I love that. That's that's gonna be the hook. Fact check your emotion. Which I don't think enough of us do.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, no, because we take it as true. If I feel it, listen, we have been told follow your gut. If you feel it, it must be true. If if there's a you know, there's intuition and all that. Yes, absolutely. But what is it based on? Are you coming from a triggered trauma response? Or are you coming from today who I am, really fulfilled whole person? And is that what I'm kind of leaning into?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Right. And again, another character um where we're built into it as women from little, right? The the guilt we have to be a certain way, we have to be accommodating, we have to be women of service at all times. We can't, you know, think about us, we can't put ourselves first.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

There, you know, do you find there also are there a lot of women who do put everybody before them? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah. I mean, because it's expected of them, because it makes them feel guilty, because they don't know any other any other way. It's like this is how it functions, right? And so I remember our podcast when I was telling you where I would, you know, be in the midst of writing my thesis and thinking, just got pregnant. Because it was it was just the thing that was in my head, like the the the road that was paved for me, right? I I knew what to expect. And so really being able to kind of like pull yourself back, check your emotion, emotion, fact-check it, and say, okay, what about this is true? These are all tools that are really easy. You sit with it, you you sit on a daily basis, either in the morning or in the in the evening, and kind of just go, like, okay, what does my day, what does my day look like tomorrow? And what do I think I'm going to be struggling with? If you're a person that guilt is kind of like what you've learned, and that is the way that you kind of approach life, it's a really good exercise to kind of sit down and go, what what are some issues that can come up for me tomorrow? Not to next 10 years. Right. Tomorrow. And then the next day, it's tomorrow. Because that's sometimes as much as we have for.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Mm-hmm. The other thing, as you were talking about, it's also letting go of that guilt of the past. Right? That's Rocco shouting out, so apologies. Um, you know, I know I used to carry a lot of guilt from my past. I know there are a lot of women that carry the guilt from their past, whether they were conditioned, what you know, uh ancestral, whatever. For those women that uh constantly go back to the past guilt, what do you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah, it really is about um honoring, recognizing, uh speaking it, saying it, and then bringing it forward to today. I'm always going to ground it of can't change it. We we we can we can't live in regret, right? So guilt and regret are like you know, very, very sticky emotions for for women. Um we we just can't change that. And so being able to honor it, recognize it, grieve it, grieve that regret, grieve that past, and then on that same day, stay of like, what can I do? Where am I now? Practice some gratitude, right? And then say, what can I control tomorrow? And so the more comfortable you are living in the present, the easier it would be to let go of that regret in the past.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Love that, love that, and you're absolutely right. You know, to wrap up the question I have is what does it actually mean to give ourselves permission to enjoy our lives without the guilt?

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah, that's a great question to ponder, right? One of the things I would think about is like can I be okay being successful? What does it mean for you to be happy? Are we does that is that you know, is that a fear we have to be able to tap into happiness, to live guilt free. So I want our listeners also to kind of like ponder on that question and you know, do a little journaling for themselves and kind of do some exploration there.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yeah, and as you mentioned, like, yeah, guilt is necessary. You know, I guess it's also that checks and balances, but you have to also, you know, validate if it's real or not. Understanding that guilt is an emotion, um, letting go of those past guilts, you know, putting boundaries in place, you know, and I believe to come back to the joy. Yeah. You know, without that so much guilt. And allowing ourselves to feel joy because of that guilt, like, oh, why should I celebrate my small wins or big wins, or why should I, you know, brag about how successful my business is going because I feel guilty others might not be in that space.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Yeah, we want to make sure we're not using guilt as a roadblock for joy. Because people are afraid to be happy and to feel joy. Because sometimes that wasn't, you know, it's not safe. And so you gotta really, really kind of tune in and say, is is that what I is that why I'm using guilt?

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Right, right. Awesome. Well, I am excited for next week's episode until next time. All right, Claudia. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Thank you, you too. Alright, take care. Bye. If this conversation resonated with you, you're not alone. That's exactly why this space exists. Elevate within as for the high-achieving women in the messy middle, the space between who you were and who you're becoming. The architecture of reinvention is an invitation to pause, to reflect, to heal, and to begin the process of unbecoming everything you were told you had to be, so you could become who you were always meant to be. Be sure to join us each Friday for our Architecture of Reinvention Roundtable discussions, where we continue these conversations and explore the deeper lessons, insights, tools, and reflections that emerge from each story. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube so you never miss an episode. For Apple Podcasts listeners, I would be grateful if you leave a rating or review. It helps reach more women who may need this conversation right now. And if you'd like to go deeper, join us on Substack at Elevate Within. There, you'll find weekly essays and honest conversations about burnout, grief, reinvention, resilience, healing, and the messy middle. Free subscribers receive full access to all public content, while paid subscribers receive bonus essays, early access to upcoming series, behind-the-scenes recording, and opportunities to engage directly with the community. If you know of a woman who needs to hear this conversation today, please share it with her. You can find me on LinkedIn under Sandra Davis, on Substack at Elevate Within, and if you're in need of fractional COO work or would like to book a discovery call on how I can help, you can reach out to me at ElevateOpsAdvisory.com. You'll find all those links in the show notes. Until next time, keep elevating personally, professionally, and from within