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Repackaging, Not Starting Over | Elevate Within Roundtable
•Sandy Davis•Season 1•Episode 22
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Sandy Davis and Claudia Cuevas, LMFT, unpack underpricing, grief, and why a career pivot is never starting over.
You're not starting over, you're repackaging. That's the reframe at the heart of this week's Architecture of Reinvention Roundtable, where host Sandy Davis and co-host Claudia Cuevas, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, dig into the themes from Natalie Hoop's episode.
Sandy and Claudia trace limiting beliefs back to their roots in family of origin and childhood conditioning around success, then unpack Natalie's story: 17 years in retail leadership, underpricing herself in her first fractional role, and being let go from her corporate job the week her mother died. They explore why women are expected to stay even-tempered through grief, and what it costs to push that grief aside to get back to performing.
Claudia introduces the Life Wheel exercise, a tool she's used with executive clients to map out where they're really thriving versus where they're quietly sacrificing and why career so often scores a 10 while family life scores a 3. They close with a practical distinction any high achiever can use immediately: is this a should, or is this a want?
What You Will Hear in This Episode
- Why limiting beliefs trace back further than the corporate environment that triggers them.
- Natalie's story of being let go the week her mother passed away.
- The Life Wheel exercise and what it reveals about overworked professionals.
- Underpricing yourself in your career and in your relationships.
- The difference between living from should and living from want.
- Quiet quitting as a boundary-setting practice, not a failure.
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You were evolving. And this is where I think so many people had this inherent of I'm starting over. I'm start it's never starting over, be it personal or professional. Everything you went through before doesn't get erased because you pivot. And so just like my story, I didn't start over when I left retail. I took all of that knowledge and brought it with me to my next adventure, which was startups. I didn't start over when I went fractional. I took all my experience and brought it with me. But we have this inherent belief that because we've changed the packaging, therefore it's starting over. It's not. You're evolving. You're evolving who you are, what you deliver, what you want to do. So anytime somebody tells you you have to take a step down or you have to take a pay cut or you have to, that is not true. That is not accurate, and that is not reality. You're not starting over, you are just repackaging it.
SPEAKER_00
Each week, I'm joined by my co-host Claudia Cuevas, licensed marriage and family therapist, as we explore the stories, lessons, and emotional realities behind transformation. Because reinvention isn't just about changing our circumstances, it's about understanding yourself. It's about healing. It's about letting go of who you thought you had to be, so you can become who you were always meant to be. Whether you're navigating burnout, grief, identity shifts, career transitions, entrepreneurships, caregiving, or simply asking yourself, what's next? You are not alone. So take a breath, pull up a chair, and join us at the table. This is Elevate Within. Welcome back to Elevate Within. I'm your host, Sandy Davis. And I'm your co-host, Claudia Jake, with us. This week, we sat down with Natalie Hoop, fractional COO, business coach, and founder of the Fractional Launch Lab for a conversation about corporate conditioning, self-worth, grief, and what it means to build a business that actually fits who you are. Natalie shared her journey through 17 years in retail leadership, underpricing herself in her first role as a fractional, the loss of her mother, and the questions that grief forced her to finally ask about what she truly wanted for her life and work. She also challenged the idea that changing directions means starting over, reminding us that reinvention is not about beginning from scratch. It's about recognizing the value of experiences, skills, and wisdom we've already earned and we learned how to carry them into the next chapter. Today, Claudia and I are going to go deeper into looking into some of the emotional and psychological themes behind Natalie's story. Let's get into it, Claudia. Let's get into it.
SPEAKER_02
What a great, great guest. She was awesome. I really enjoyed uh the way that she was able to kind of explain her journey, um, what she shared about her journey. And there was a lot of topics in her story that, you know, we can kind of dissect a little bit. But one of the things that stood out to me the most was, you know, she kept on talking about these limited beliefs that she had. That and for her, she really felt like they were formed through her corporate experience, right? The managers that she had, the CEOs that she had to deal with, like all that stuff. But it really made me think about, you know, where do what are limited beliefs and where where do those come from? And really we we would have to start talking about like family of origin, right? Because yes, we will get conditioned to working a certain way. And um within, you know, within the environment and the corporation, I mean, every every industry and every corporation will have its own kind of culture. And so yeah, you either you have to learn how to perform and what's required of you. But really, we're we're so much more susceptible to these limited beliefs because of like how we were raised, right? Where what kind of system did we already come into that allowed us to stay? She stayed a long time in some of these areas where like, you know. Yeah, she had better patience than me. That's what I'm saying. Like, I when I think about my limited beliefs, I'm like, yeah, no, I didn't last that long. Cause I was it was three years in. I was like, nope, this is not gonna be for me. But it really made me think of like, you know, where where do we get some of these beliefs? Where like, you know, I was I I I was curious of, oh, I wonder if, you know, she was raised with performance, like being validated through performance, right? Um, that being successful, like I wonder what what what her family kind of like rejoiced, what her school life was of like if you get age, you're you do good, you're you know, you're a good student, maybe the teachers liked her. Like those are all stuff that we learn from a very, very young age on what we tend to believe that success is. And so it makes us a little bit more success susceptible to being in those types of environments, or it makes it harder for us to kind of see when we're really being unhappy to leave, right? And so that that for me was really curious to kind of just really delve into a little bit more of like, hmm, I wonder, I wonder what what they told her when she was little about what it means to be successful.
SPEAKER_00
And I think for a lot of women, um, especially in in business or in personal life, right? If you had a past where, you know, you're the old conditions of you have to be almost even killed, just take the punches, go with the flow, just stick with it. I guess that belief of like it'll get better or so on and so forth. And for Natalie, it really took, well, actually, she was laid off. She was laid off. She didn't even quit when she her mom had passed.
SPEAKER_02
Right.
SPEAKER_00
And she got upset and they let her go. Where I would have that office would not have been clean by the time I walked out of it. I'll just put it like that in a nice way. Yeah. So it's like for for women like that, and I I would love your perspective. Like, yeah, where does that come from? And and for those that may not recognize it, to help those women like recognize this. Yeah. These are red flags.
SPEAKER_02
I think that that um, you know, she she made it really clear that like that was, you know, it was recent, I think was, I think 2017 or 2011, something like that, where it wasn't like you said, like it's not in the 1950s, we're not like in the 1970s, like this happened relatively in the 2000s, right? And so there still was this in order to be successful, our expectation is that you're even tempered, you don't get emotional, right? Because again, we're we're working against, and we know that already. We hear that now where women can't be in power, they're too emotional. And so And yeah, the men are all emotional. That's still being said today, right? I mean, it's still being said about like, well, women are, you know, and so I can't imagine 10 years ago, 15 years ago, that that was I mean, it really was impactful where she said, like, they just did not respond well to the way that I was grieving my mother passing away. Like, imagine, like all I imagined was that she was in her office crying. Like that's how that's how bad I imagine it, right?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because she doesn't come off the top, she doesn't come off as the type of person to be out in the open and extra dramatic type of thing.
SPEAKER_02
But I wonder if, you know, if I wonder if people listened to that, they would have been like, oh my gosh, she probably was like, you know, slamming doors or being hysterical or whatever, you know, the name that they call it, where like she's just being over the top, and then I'm like, the way that she described the environment, right, was that she probably was like, you know, blowing her nose. And it was like, what, you're crying? Why are you crying? What's crazy? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, so I can't even imagine having, you know, again, not being able to be supportive through her grief and you know, everything that someone goes through. And she said, like, what did I do? I ended up putting all that stuff to the side and getting to work, going on LinkedIn and taking another job because I needed to get a job. I need to provide, I need to be, you know, I need to I can't be without a job. Like, people are depending on me. So I can't even imagine how long her grief, right, going through those steps, having to push it aside, because again, our success is measured through through our performance. And then when she, you know, ran into the fractional kind of like industry and all that, and I think something that came up was really interesting was the where she was saying that she underpriced herself. Yeah. And so what it brought up for me was like, oh my gosh, like, how often do we as women underprice ourselves, let alone our career, right? I mean, we already know we're getting paid less than you know our male counterpart, but like in relationships with our partners, like emotionally, how often do we underprice ourselves, right? Underappreciate ourselves.
SPEAKER_00
Too many times. Too many times.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. In the I just gotta give a little bit more, I just gotta do a little bit more. Um, you know, I'm not I'm having to juggle this, like, you know, career and motherhood or being in a relationship and being able to juggle those two things where we feel we've talked about this in other episodes, where like we feel like we have to show up a hundred percent for both. Right. And so we're really diminishing our needs, our how do we like recover, like taking on a lot of the emotional load when it comes to like the home life because it's just what you expect. Like, not even asking for what you need. It's just like, okay, I'm supposed to do all of that.
SPEAKER_00
It's also what you said, it it's a conditioning from you know, our upbringing. Right, you know, where we're that what I would consider shrinking ourselves, you know, um, and being always of service to everyone else.
SPEAKER_02
That's the part where it's like, gosh, I'm like, it really made me think of like not just her, but like our listeners and having them really kind of sit back and think about where if, you know, maybe I'm getting a good paying job or I'm doing really well, but where am I coming up short for myself? What areas, right? Um, there's a there's this life wheel that's really interesting, and you know, it was developed for actually executives where they did this life wheel and they had them rate on the scale of one to ten where they felt that they were being successful or lacked, right? And so it's this it's this wheel where it has like it has career, it has, you know, uh education, family life, spiritual life, um, purpose, right? And so I think as women we need to kind of look at that wheel because we'd be surprised where we kind of like put ourselves. Like there should be balance in all those places. So when I was doing a lot of workshops for some of like some lawyers and stuff, they would, you know, career was 10, 10, 10, 10. Guess where where they were really lacking?
SPEAKER_00
Where they'd come up short. Their family life. Family life. You would think career and then family. I know. So what were the rankings?
SPEAKER_02
So they would do like 10 for career, they would do like um spirituality, like a four, I would see family life like three, five, right? Because depending on where they are in their career, the the sacrifice is family. Because eventually I will, you know, yeah. Eventually I I'm doing all this so that I can provide for my family. But the question is not, do you provide for your family? Because that's like, how do you feel about your like finances, right? Finances, high, great, doing great, right? Um, even exercise, great. Education, they're they're they're better. Spirituality and family was one of the lowest ones. And so the questions I would ask is you need to really think about what you're doing and if it aligns with your purpose, right? With what your values are. Because I will bet that the majority of you have a family or if you're going to have a family that you're overworking yourself and doing all this stuff so that you can provide for your family and they can be happy and I can have more time with them and that-da-da-da-da. But you're not doing that. They're not practicing that, right?
SPEAKER_00
Right.
SPEAKER_02
And so then we worked, we really did a workshop on working on like how do you find more balance? And it was really hard. And so I think that we as women also struggle with finding balance, not because we're neglecting one or the other. It's because we find that the standard that we hold ourselves to, it we can never, we can never achieve. Because it's 100% for both. Yeah. And so we've heard with a lot of the women that we've interviewed, that is one of the biggest struggles. I want to be, I want to be a mom. I want to be there for my family. I wanna, I wanna raise my kids, and I'm I'm coming up short. I'm I'm not doing a good job with that, right? And what that does to your soul. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
It reminds me of a statement my mom used to always say. She was like, I may not have been a great mother, but I was a great provider. And then thinking about that now and having this conversation, it was more or less like, hey, uh, providing for your family is almost equate to being successful in your career. It's a check the box. It's like, hey, they're almost like kind of equal because hey, I'm providing here, you're all good, you're all straight. Okay, I'm doing this, I'm, you know, the high achieving, all this other stuff, corporate America. So it's almost like a check the box. You have everything you want, right? There's nothing that you're asking for that I'm not giving you except my time, my attention, you know, tucking you in at night, having dinner, or, you know, whatever else mothers wish they can spend more time with their children doing and really watch them grow as opposed to just providing.
SPEAKER_02
And the the the sad part is most men don't struggle with that, right? Because the expectation is put on women to be that. Yeah. Right. And so we have to be able to align with our value system and be able to align with that that. I mean, some of our listeners, I think it was even Natalie, she was the breadwinner. Her husband was a stay-at-home husband. And she still felt like she wasn't being a good enough mom because she wasn't there for her kids. And, you know, it was like, what?
unknown
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know, I um I'm so glad I am now single because had I been in a relationship, I know um, in my past relationships, they would be like, you ain't never retired me. Be like, no, whatever. But that could be from my upbringing. I'd be like, I would I'm not here to retire you.
SPEAKER_02
Same. I'm off same.
SPEAKER_00
I'm here to kind of retire myself early, but no boo-boo. But I get it when I do have uh a good friend, her husband was a stay-at-home because childcare was so expensive. Oh yeah. So on that aspect, if you have children, yes.
SPEAKER_02
No, I under I totally understand. And I I applaud the relationships that have figured it out, and they say, look, between the both of us, who can make the higher income, who has the potential to make the higher income, then this makes sense that you stay home and da-da-da-da. And like we're working together. That I I I don't believe in gender roles. Like I really am this person who believes in what are your best capabilities, right? And so if my husband's a great cook, guess what he's doing? Because not because it's a woman's job or it's because you do it faster, better, and in and stuff, right? If I'm really good at finances and I like to do the bookkeeping and I'm very detail oriented, then I take care of the finances because that is a strength that I have. And it's not because you're the man and you know, it's sit down and look at what those strengths are and and make a decision as a couple, right? Make a decision. And so I applaud anybody who says, like, yeah, this was we talked about it. We put the, we put the numbers on, and that would make the best, you know, that made the most sense. I think the problem becomes about us. And again, we're talking about our limited beliefs. I'm supposed to. I should have. What she says something about like she was constantly working towards the shoulds, yeah, or operating from a shoulds instead of a want. Because she never asked what I wanted. She just, I should be doing this, I should be doing that, I should have more, I should be more with I should be home more with my kids, I should be a better mom. Like, instead of like, well, do I even like is that something I want to do? And then once you do that, then you pivot and do what you based on those things, right?
SPEAKER_00
Because we're not asking what we want. So I think most of us, I'm guilty of it. I come in.
SPEAKER_02
No, we ask you what you have in place with shit. Yeah. Yeah. We ask what you want. What do they want? What do they need, right? And so no matter how high you go up that corporate ladder, you have to be really aware about what do I think about X, Y, right? What do I think about that? And do is it does it align with my values? Does it align with my authont authentic authentic self? And if it doesn't, how do I get there? What what do I need to do to pivot so that it does align better, right? Yeah. There's listen, there's compromise, there's all that stuff, right? But that is something that we have to start asking. Is it a should or is it a want? I love that. I love that part about the interview.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. How how do we practice that? Because I know I'm guilty of it. I'm sure you're guilty of it. Um, not something that we think about in the moment until we start it doing this series, right? Where we don't ask the questions of what do I want? What do I need? Is this benefiting me? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
I think one of the clues to really kind of take a step back and start having some of these questions is am I it does what I'm doing feel like work or does it feel like it's something that I love to do? You and I know, right? It's it I've been here at work since 10 a.m. today, right? And we're hopping on to do this thing.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
Why? Because I like it. It doesn't feel like work, right? If it starts feeling heavy, hard physically, I'm tired, I feel unmotivated, I'm feeling like I don't want to get up. Those are the times you have to start asking, am I shooting or am I wanting?
SPEAKER_00
Shout out to Natalie, we're taking that phrase from you.
SPEAKER_02
It really is, right? Like that is your first clue when it's like, you know, once you you you know when you're like, mm-hmm. It could be she called the kids, it could be the the job, it could be anything in any aspect. It's I have to go see my parents, I have to go and like see some some relatives. If it starts like, okay, like that's when you have to take a step back, take a deep breath, and go, hmm, yeah, what's going on there? Am I doing this because I feel obligated, or do I really want to go and spend time with like, you know, 30 family members?
SPEAKER_00
And if once a woman realizes, like, hey, this is no longer aligned with my purpose, you know, let's take a job. And we all understand the job market is crazy right now. Yes. Um, so it's not like, I mean, for those that can just be like, hey, I'm just gonna quit and find something else, or a lot of actually a lot of women in corporate, they leave and then they open up their own business. And then we'll get into that later on in the season on how to do that correctly mentally and spiritually. So what advice could we give women? So there's there's two things, right?
SPEAKER_02
You you can repurpose right your why. And so if it's if you're in a situation where like I just can't leave, then we need to start pivoting and reframing what that job is, right? And so do you what what do they call it? What did they call it two years ago now? Quiet, quiet quitting? Quiet quitting, yeah. I loved that, and it wasn't anything but like, I am just doing too much. I'm doing too much. And so then it becomes like, you know what? I'm supposed to leave at six, I'm gonna leave at six. I'm supposed to take my 15-minute break, should take my 15-minute break, right? Like you start creating these boundaries where the job becomes the paycheck and no longer becomes your identity, and you find a different why. So you can create your job to have purpose, even though it's not aligned right now with who you are. Because you just need some mental space to be able to pivot. Yeah. And if you're in fight, fight or flight, there's no way you don't have the mental capacity to even think that way. And so as you start pulling back. Setting some boundaries, checking in, clocking in. You're not not doing your job. You're just not going above and beyond.
SPEAKER_00
Right. Right.
SPEAKER_02
So that you can have some mental capacity to then go, what do I want to do?
SPEAKER_00
Right?
SPEAKER_02
We start working on our resume. We start seeing whatever is out there. But all of a sudden, this job doesn't feel like it's I have to succeed. You don't longer have to, there's not that pressure anymore.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. You know, even for uh women business owners, you know, uh even for myself. And one of the things that stood out for me with Natalie, where she was like, you know, you don't need to start over from scratch. Yeah. You just have to repackage to find the purpose. So even women who have their own business who still it started off where it was just like, yes, this is exciting. I'm doing this, I'm doing this for me. You can still suffer from that burn. You can still go from the shoulds. Oh, I I should have sent you know a couple more emails. I should have followed up. I shouldn't have gone on vacation because I missed that one client that was calling me, but I didn't pick up my phone, type of thing. So it's also re for business owners, it's also repackaging.
SPEAKER_02
Yep.
SPEAKER_00
Pivoting yourself.
SPEAKER_02
The reframing of like, are you doing too much? Are you still, are you still bringing in those limited beliefs to now your business, right? Because then you're gonna just hit the same wall again. Because now you no longer is it being created for you or you're it's being forced upon you, you're doing it to yourself. So that point I think was great about her her conversation.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And she even called me out. Well, although I was exaggerating a bit on the conversation where she was like, Oh, your voice dropped when you talked about elevate operations as opposed to elevate within. And it was like, Yeah, because in conversations I have, my purpose is elevate within. It's helping women, it's doing the series, it's having these conversations and paying it forward and educating these women. So I could still light up as exhausted as I am. I can still light up and be like, yes, this is me. So I told, I was like, it's an example of when I'm having these conversations, people actually want to talk to me more about Elevate Within and my perspective and you know, some of the conversations I've had with these women. And if I'm going there to also talk about elevate operations, it's hard. I was like, I almost have to start elevate operations, that conversation first. Right. And then get into Elevate Within because I told her I was like, when I talk about Elevate Within, I'm all yes, yes, yes, yes. And then it's like, all right, so now let's talk about ops. And she was like, see, you don't really like I was like, it was uh operations as something that I've done for 25 years. It was the easiest path. Is it my passion? My passion is really to help uh other founders and owners scale up their business with the same passion that I have for elevate within. Right. But if I had to choose, uh I know you're not supposed to like have a favorite baby, but my favorite baby is elevate within. Yeah.
unknown
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
Because it aligns with who you are, right? And so that that will be the pivot for you. You will eventually be able to live off of your passion. But you know, you gotta start somewhere. And we gotta, you know, put the work in.
SPEAKER_00
And so, but it's you know it's the shoulds, the shoulds is is operations, the wants is elevate within. So yeah, and that I just put two and two together.
unknown
Yep.
SPEAKER_02
Took me a minute, but I was just like, Yes, yes, and they're very close together, which is why it's so hard to kind of distinguish between them, right? Because they're very aligned. But yeah. Amazing. I like it.
SPEAKER_00
Amazing. This was a great diagnosis. Even learn for myself. Uh Claudia, what about for you? Are you doing your passion now?
SPEAKER_02
I am, for sure. Yeah, I am. I'm, you know, uh, I say who, when, what, where, and how often. Yeah. And so that's the part where I, you know, even th thinking about eventually retirement, I've always said, like, yeah, well, I'm you know, I'm gonna re I'll be retired. I'm gonna retire at 62, but you know, I'll only see like 10 clients.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. I don't have a retirement for I help elevate what then I'm doing until I cross over. And for folks, um, if you haven't heard the episode with Claudia and I where she talks about her journey, um, I think this is also evidence that you went from the shoulds, should, shoulds to understanding, you know, I'm going after what I want and how she left the county and got her license. And it is a great family and marriage counselor. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Awesome. Well, until next week. Yes. I will see you. Can't wait. Bye-bye. Take care. Bye. If this conversation resonated with you, you're not alone. That's exactly why this space exists. Elevate within as for the high-achieving women in the messy middle, the space between who you were and who you're becoming. The architecture of reinvention is an invitation to pause, to reflect, to heal, and to begin the process of unbecoming everything you were told you had to be, so you could become who you were always meant to be. Be sure to join us each Friday for our Architecture of Reinvention Roundtable discussions, where we continue these conversations and explore the deeper lessons, insights, tools, and reflections that emerge from each story. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube so you never miss an episode. For Apple Podcasts listeners, I would be grateful if you leave a rating or review. It helps reach more women who may need this conversation right now. And if you'd like to go deeper, join us on Substack at Elevate Within. There, you'll find weekly essays and honest conversations about burnout, grief, reinvention, resilience, healing, and the messy middle. Free subscribers receive full access to all public content, while paid subscribers receive bonus essays, early access to upcoming series, behind-the-scenes recording, and opportunities to engage directly with the community. If you know of a woman who needs to hear this conversation today, please share it with her. You can find me on LinkedIn under Sanders Davis, on Substack at Elevate Within, and if you're in need of fractional COO work or would like to book a discovery call on how I can help, you can reach out to me at ElevateOpsAdvisory.com. You'll find all those links in the show notes. Until next time, keep elevating personally, professionally, and from within
