Episode 3 - From the Pew to the Altar Pt. 2

This week's episode is Part 2 of Lynnsey and Lauren's discussion of religion and spiritual views. From crystals and plant medicine to energy healing and divination, they make the case that the practices the church often labels as demonic are woven throughout its own sacred text. The conversation opens up into something bigger and more hopeful: the idea that all great spiritual teachers were pointing at the same universal truth, and that leaving an institution doesn't mean leaving the divine. This episode is for anyone who has ever felt like they walked away from "God" — and suspects they may have actually walked closer.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome back to part two of our. We haven't decided what to call this yet, honestly, but our religious trauma episode.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Yeah, like what do we believe now?

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Yeah. What were our experiences like as children and adults? And where are we now? Fun fact about the future. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

You ready? Yeah. When this airs, you're gonna be on a boat. Oh. Yeah. You're gonna be on a boat? Are you so excited? Yeah. Well, yeah. Be a little more excited than that.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

I was just talking about that earlier. I was like, I everybody keeps asking me, are you so excited? And I'm like, I'm just in the best way I can describe it as work mode. I've never been on a cruise before, and I am the adult in this situation, and I'm not, I don't consider myself an adulty enough adult. Alright. So I understand that it will probably be fine and I believe that, but I'm just thinking a lot right now. I'm in like, don't forget this, don't forget that mode. So I'm not like I yes, I can't wait to be away from work, but I'm also worried about my sweet senior citizen dog, and your son is going to be watching her, and so I just I have a lot on my mind, a lot of worries. That's all.

SPEAKER_05 1:22

I'm gonna be talking from this side for a second.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

It's not gonna pick it up, but you're just gonna sound like you're across the room.

SPEAKER_05 1:27

That's okay. I want it to sound like I'm across the room. I need chapstick.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:31

I got a little bit of a sunburn.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

No Napoleon.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

I got a little bit of sunburn on my lips, and so when I put chapstick on it kind of feels like I'm rubbing on like some Lay's potato chips.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

She's the nurses. She's got like five sticks in the drawer. Fun fact about me that I hope to showcase in a later episode I do voices of Robin Williams. You also hear them. That too. That was good.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Good job. Oh, thanks. Am I funny sometimes? Sometimes. Oh. Not always. Thanks. My validation for the day. Alright, let's jump back into it.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah, we wanted to jump into the double standards. Of what? Of religion versus non-religion. How about we use that umbrella term? Because there are many versions of non-dogmatic organized religions, but that are still spiritual. Okay, let's play a little game. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:23

The game is called demonic or not. Okay? Yeah. Go, go. The laying of hands.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Do I get to be sarcastic? Like, is this wrong answers only?

SPEAKER_03 2:35

No.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

This is societal perception. Societal perception. That's what I'm saying. Am I answering for society or me? For society. Okay. Laying hands? Yeah. Well, if it's in the name of God. Not demonic. Uh Reiki. Demonic.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Okay. Same thing. Um, demonic or not. Speaking in tongues.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Ugh. So, fun fact. You know how like all the Christians love to argue about who's right and who's not. So this is me thinking too much about it. Generally, if it's in the church, it's okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

So if it's in the brick wall, good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Outside? Or if you're a Cretan lady, it's okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Okay, so inside spiritual gift. Yeah. Outside, it's channeling and that's demonic. Correct. Okay. Um, prophesying.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Oh, well, I was also taught like no, no prophet is true. God is the only prophet and he no longer speaks to humanity. I was, you know how like each denomination and like families come with their different stories? I understand I'm taking this way too seriously. And generally, they would say prophesizing in the name of God is fine, but I was actually taught that that's not okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Okay. It's a whole fucking thing.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

Um, but divination. Demonic. Demonic. Cool. Okay. Yeah. This is an interesting one. Burning incense.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

To Catholics, they love it. What do they call it? A uh I have no idea. They swing the little incense ball. It's an incense ball, yeah, but it's got a name for the room.

SPEAKER_05 4:01

On a rope. It looks kind of like a what was it called? The uh skip bow. Yeah, it looks like a skip bow.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Do you remember how much I would be like, I'm a ninja of motherfucking turtle if I was throwing. But do you remember? Yes, I remember. Yes, yeah. You swung it around your foot. Just thinking about that. My razor. Yeah, thinking about a razor scooter. Okay. Anyway. Um, yeah, but generally it's um it's okay in the church smoke cleansing. That wasn't even my question. What about smoke cleansing? Well, if it's done by the Native Americans, it's demonic. Or anyone else. I'm joking. But I learned about sage burning a long time ago before which hippie move. Yeah, my dad was like, no, this is what you do to carry your prayers and cleanse your space. My dad taught me that. And it's really cool.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_05 4:45

I would have loved learning that when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:48

Um, anointing with oil. Um, for baptism, it's okay. Okay. Um, buying an intentionally charged charged oil from sage and moonstone aparthecary.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Demonic.

unknown 5:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

That Lauren Bitch is evil.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

That's true. There's probably a fan club out there that would agree with you. You should probably go say hi to them. How about um, you love talking about this? Communion. Um, a ritual meal invoking a deity with specific words said over specific objects, literally spell work. Yeah. You are eating. This is the body of Christ. This is the blood of Christ.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

What do we think about that?

SPEAKER_02 5:40

The same people screaming witch are the same people that say, and now we will consume the body and blood of Christ. My favorite, one of my favorite humans in the world, aka U. Once called it the worst charcuterie ever. And it's it's stuck with me for Yeah, I'm talking about you. I was like, She smoked a little bit. No, I didn't. I was like, Justina. I said aka you. I know. Eventually, yes. No, anyway. Yeah, you called it the worst charcuterie ever. It is.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

There's no breeze.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

What did Melissa say? She said there are some places that take the communion wafer meal so seriously that one, someone has to watch over it. First of all, can I have that job? I will go to sleep immediately.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Second of all, she said, you can't, this is some like some Mexican upbringing. You can't waste any of it. You can't throw Jesus away. You got to finish the crackers.

SPEAKER_05 6:31

You have to finish. They're just back. They're in the saltines, but God. Do you want some crack? Like do you God, bro? We got like eight of them left.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Here, if you want some put your saltines down. Stop it. God, look at the sound waves when you did that.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 6:52

Baptisms.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

That's completely holy. You must do it or you will go to hell. I was taught that as well as a child. Do you know one time I was crying asking if I was going to hell because I hadn't been baptized? I've never been baptized. It's probably why I'm getting twice.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

As a kid and an adult.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

Yeah. Yeah. I figured. As a teenager and as an adult. Good. Okay, so baptism's cool. What about a water ritual for spiritual spiritual transformation? Demonic. Okay, cool. Um, the rosary.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Well, again, my Christian upbringing would taught teach me that Catholics are wrong, so that's not okay. You're not supposed to have you're not supposed to worship false idols. And my Christian upbringing would have taught me that statues, crucifixes, and rosaries were false idols. But who worships a rosary? I'm telling my grandpa just said absolute things with no proof. You gotta understand.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Anyway, that's where you get it from.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Shut up. Um, but yeah, say I'm Catholic, I would say that's completely normal. That's how you pray to and it's systematic.

SPEAKER_05 7:51

Like you touch a bead and then it's repetitive prayer using beads to help you keep count. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah. Um, but honestly, they look cool as fuck. Catholicism is so witchy, I love it.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

With a mantra, you're going along with a mantra. It's the same thing, um, even in the Kundalini yoka, you know, every once in a while they will use um mala beads, which is essentially the same thing as a rosary, 108 beads. You have a little tassel or something fun at the end to know where you start and where you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

There's an emoji for them, isn't that cute?

SPEAKER_05 8:25

Yeah, and you like go through so that you're not like Ang Namol, Gurudev Namo. Okay, that was one. Like, you can't keep track of that way. It's to help you keep count. Anyway, okay. Um lighting candles for prayer. Okay. Candle magic. Witchcraft. Ooh, cool. Fasting.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah. Healing, transformative, acceptable. Acceptable by God.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

Um, shamanic practice of fasting for heightening your spiritual awareness.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

To invoke visions, demonic.

SPEAKER_05 9:01

How about my favorite topic? The sign of the cross.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Mine too.

SPEAKER_05 9:07

Well, I mean, like touching your forehead, touching your heart, shoulder, shoulder. A protective symbol drawn on the body, which is basically a sigil.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

It's rewarding. It's sacred geometry. Crosses and X's are powerful.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Yes, 100%. So at what point did these practices become holy versus demonic? And who made that decision?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Some white guy.

unknown 9:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

I guarantee you, some white guy.

SPEAKER_05 9:37

So, again, as the Virgo, I brought some receipts. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:45

Um, I think back to this TikTok clip that I saw of this pastor, and it was like, these witches know that their powerful crystals are powerful. And going in about how whatever, I mean, he essentially, he essentially admitted that these things are real. Yeah. They're tarot cards and their Ouija boards. All the things, right? So I think what's so important, you know, the one of the first things that I said was like laying hands versus Reiki. Yeah. Right. And I do remember in church when people would put a hand on you to pray, right? And sometimes multiple people would come put their hands on you to pray. And I'm not saying that they had bad intentions at all. What's the difference in that and Reiki?

SPEAKER_03 10:37

There's not one. There's not.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

My eyes just widened because I realized that could have been the gateway to me hating strangers touching me. You know how I'm not I'm not a hugger.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah, that's a boundaries thing. Don't touch me. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

But, you know, in trying to explain to certain people, like, Jesus said in John 14, 12, whoever believes in me will do the works that I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these. Jesus never meant for us to just sit and worship him and all the things that he did. He said, bro, guys, you guys can do this too. If you can find enlightenment, which I'm not saying that enlightenment is hidden or destination, if you can find the divinity within yourselves, believe in yourselves, do all the you can do this shit too. It's not just reserved for me. I am no better than you. Like you guys are just as powerful. You can you can do things greater than I could. He literally said that. He said to go bigger, and that's one of my favorite things that Jesus did say. I've said this a lot. I fuck with Jesus. I don't have any problem with Jesus. I like Jesus. That's a nice Jesus. It's his fan club. It's his fucking fan club that I don't like.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

And I don't like when people, again, take his name in vain and then go uh draft bills. And start wars. And yes. And take away people's rights. A thousand percent. In Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

In Jesus' name, amen.

SPEAKER_05 12:17

Oh my goodness. And then also that same like hands-on healing thing. Yeah. Mark 16, 17 says they will place their hands on sick people and they will get well.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

That is energy work. Like you are invoking a deity, that being God or Jesus or whatever, to come through you out of your hands onto this other person. Yeah. That's no different than Reiki. They're invoking that life force energy to then heal through the energy current of your body onto the other person's energy.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yeah. They really believe if it's not from the West, it's just wrong. It's just a that's some Reiki was a Japanese, like it's very just closed-minded, fucking ignorant. It's why every time I'm mocking these people, it's in a dumb southern voice. It's just because that's my experience. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

Yeah. Well, do you want to talk about like manifestation? You know, manifestation's a really hot word right now. It's very Oh, the internet. I know.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

It's very uh everyone's manifesting. You know, the here's the thing the the the polar opposites have happened. The way I talked in the last episode about trigger words such as faith and whatever. Like I I've even gotten so far as that like I've conditioned myself because sometimes we just default, we say things like, Thank God. Oh my god. I don't really say that. And I know that's kind of taken it to the extreme, but I don't like to say things I don't believe in. I don't I don't think that thanks to Sky Daddy, like I got to work on time.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

So anyway, I'm sorry. The opposite has happened. We're like now to like boomer, right wing, I mean whoever people, they can't stand the word toxic. They can't stand the word manifest, they can't stand the word, oh what else? I mean, just all of those kind of trick. They they think it's new age. And I'm like, therapy words. This isn't new, yeah. They're they're therapy terms that because sometimes they're overused or misused on the internet, that's the one you know, or like everyone's a narcissist. Yeah, because everyone has ADHD. People learn some terms, and yeah, exactly. So weaponized. It's kind of funny that that same for them.

SPEAKER_05 14:31

Well, we were talking about crystals. Please let me nerd out for just a second. So you're you're the crystal person. Crystals in the motherfucking Bible, guys. Okay. Let me find this one specifically. Okay, and Revelation, the end of it's the end of the world, guys. Okay. End of the world. The foundations of heaven, this is Revelation 21, 19. The foundations of heaven are built from 12 specific gemstones. He builds heaven out of crystals. He didn't do it out of your sheetrock. Okay. I'm just saying, out of crystals. There were crystals in Eden. And where did it go? Oh my goodness. I had it. Ah, I'm not gonna be able to find it. There was a whole list of like all 12 of them where it was like lapis. I saw it. Yeah, find it for me while I look at the song. Oh, great. It was um is Exodus 28 says the high priest breastplate was encrusted with 12 specific gemstones. That's what I'm talking about. I have to go find the the scripture specifically. Yeah. Um, in a specific pattern on this breastplate, he created a crystal grid on a divine breastplate for protection.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Are you joking me? Yeah. You know I'm gonna I would nerd out about sacred geometry. And even that's the science of feng shui, or not science maybe, but the idea behind feng shui. Design shapes, they matter it because it has to do with energy flow.

SPEAKER_05 16:12

I think it's so cool. Like, I don't know. I just I could get stuck on this subject for a long time. But you know, I mean, you know, in the last episode I talked about using crystals as spiritual bypassing, and it's like, so what's the difference? You know, how can I still love them if I know? And I think it's just about your intention, you know. I love crystals and I think that they do carry a specific vibration. I think that they do have a history of healing practices, you know, um, and indigenous cultures uh using these things for a reason. And so I think using them um to kind of aid you in like your inner work, your spiritual work, your your shadow work, whatever word you want to use, that's great. Purchasing them in replacement of that's where I kind of have an issue. You know what I mean? Um, kind of same with herbal medicine. Everybody thinks that herbal medicine is witchy, right? Oh, we don't wanna we don't wanna do what the weird woo-woo is telling you to do. A tincture. No, that's gross. This is like a tea be demonic or I mean I think that tea is a little more acceptable, but you're right. If you put it in a different form, then it's considered alternative medicine despite it being the original medicine. You know, and people just they trust a pill, but the other just could have some intention behind it that they're not okay with.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Well, and while we're talking about this stuff, I've said before that so many people get confused that something is inherently witchy, like an object. Ouija boards are bad, tarot cards are bad. It's not the object which holds the power, it is you, the human. It's your intention. So I refer to these things as tools because just like a literal tool such as a chainsaw, you can cut a branch outside or you can be leatherface. Like it's it's no different.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Yeah. Yep. You're 100% right. But I mean, even you know, the Bible mentions multiple times about plants, leaves, and flowers being for healing. And that's my belief, is that we were given these plants, um, these gemstones, these things of the earth for a reason, not just to look at. You know, it's they have healing properties for a reason.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Well, I would also lean to the my fascination is in bridging the gap between science and spirituality in some instances. Yeah. We all learned at the periodic table in like seventh grade. We hated it, but we learned it. Why is why is silver used for what is it, allergies and colds? You know, like that's just one example, but there are certain elements of Earth that have different qualities to them. Yeah for a reason.

SPEAKER_05 19:17

Um your favorite? I think that you could have a lot to say on this, hopefully. Divination and astrology in the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:28

So how did the three wise men get to a baby? By reading the freaking stars.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

You know what I am gonna say? It wasn't in the snow. In December? No. Whether it was December or not, there wasn't no snow in Jerusalem, I'm willing to bet.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

Yeah. Anyway. Um But my divination scene, no, not divination scene, nativity scene. My nativity scene has snow. She was cold.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

And Jesus was white. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

No, I was just gonna say that there's a lot of astrology, a lot of star reading in the Bible. Well, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Never mind. Sorry. Voyagers used the North Star to guide them. I understand that's a bit different than being like, that's the constellation of Leo. But it's like we said in our astrology episode, the people who dismiss it are often ones who've never looked into it. Yeah. But please give some examples.

SPEAKER_05 20:27

No, I mean, it's the Bible's full of crystal work. It's full of crystal work, it's full of plant medicine, dream interpretations, divination, energy healing, smoke cleansing, astrology. Can you imagine? I mean, listen. Think of like your most stable friend besides me. Think of your most stable friend that comes to you and is like, I had a dream that this angel came to me and said, Hey girl. With your permission. You're gonna get pregnant. And you're gonna have a baby. I need you to explain this to your man. I know what he's gonna think. But it's not the milkman's baby, it's God's baby. And then it turns out and then she's pregnant. Like what would you think? Like that she's in some form of like spiritual psychosis.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

If that happened right now. That's what I'm saying. We're interpreting dreams, right? All of that. None of that was considered demonic in context back then. Yeah, but if someone did that now, you'd be like, But the problem was is that those sacred practices never left the planet. They just got relabeled. They got taken outside of the church building, like you said earlier. And then they got labeled as something else. And why? Because it's taking the control out of our hands. If we know that we have a direct link to God, to the divine, to the spiritual realm, to the earth, to our own healing, then we pose a threat to the church, of course. So let's talk about like we're sitting here talking a lot about what we don't believe in. Okay. This is these are the holes in the church and the stories and the parables. What do you believe in now as an ex-Christian? Goth identifying.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Hold on. Can I save that for in a second? Because I also wanted to name like a few double standards that are kind of fun ones. Please, please, please. These are my favorites. Please. Alright. Birthday candles, cookies for Santa, teeth for the tooth fairy. Um that's my favorite. That's my favorite one. Leave your offering to the bone demon for money. The bone demon. The teeth are bones, and imagine what energy you get. I love this. Goes back to like some Celtic mythology, some faith shit. What would they need your bones for in exchange for two gold doubloons? Like loons. No, I just I find that one fun. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I let my daughter think there was a tooth fairy, and you know, despite the fact that I'm not religious, I don't want to be like, well, tradition's tradition. I didn't do it out of a blind way. I didn't want to deny her the experience that many kids get of like you get presents this time of year, put your tooths under your pillow and you'll get some money. Like it's it's cute, but I'm not gonna. I certainly when my daughter was old enough, I was just like, that's witchcraft. But anyways, tooth fairy is one of my favorites. Um, but weddings, baptisms, bot mitzvahs, bar mitzvahs, communions, kinsenaras, graduations, they're all rituals.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

It's it's what it so again, cookies for Santa. That's an offering to a deity. A hundred percent. Give me a present. Yeah, I give you this, you give me that. Blowing out your birthday candles and making a wish. That's a spell.

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Also, why did we serve people pieces of cake that like we clearly just spit on? This was before COVID. That's why. Also, balloons. Like, here's a bag of my breath. Like for real. Like, here's a sack of my breath. Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

That's why we switched to helium at some point. Oh god. Um, so so yeah, and then but to answer your question about what I believe, I also want to circle back to something that I forgot to like finish saying in the previous episode. But you know, it's I want to be clear that my terrible experiences with just life in my 20s, it's not because I went through those that I was just like, fuck God, he wasn't there for me. Many people have that experience, and I think it's valid that they're like, they go through something awful and they think God's not real.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

That wasn't even mine. I just got to the point where I was like, I'm tired of feeling like I'm not allowed to ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

I'm tired of bl I don't do blind faith, not with humans, not with deities. I don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

You're not gonna just trust me. No, sorry. You earn those things with me personally, and that's an okay boundary to draw. So all I'm saying is that I got to a point where I realized you can't just do nothing to change your circumstances and pray until something happens. No one's coming to save you. Save yourself.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

I would say I said that to my child about life, not even just religion. I just said, you know, I want you to be become an independent woman. I want to teach you to have your own opinions and your own thoughts and all that shit. And I was just like, no matter what, it I'm not saying be so guarded, like, don't need no man, although that's also valid. But I just I told her that I said, No one's coming to save you.

SPEAKER_05 26:01

What did Cher say? Mom, I am a rich man.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

I love Cher. Yes. Her mom was like, You need to kind of correcting her behavior. You need to, she either said you need to change something, or she asked her, How are you ever gonna marry a rich man? And she said, Mom, I am a rich man.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

I am a rich man.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Hail Cher, the patron saint. Happy Prad Mom. She walked so all the drag queens could run. Just kidding. There were queens even during her her era. But um I wrote a few notes down about what I do believe, so I can wrap up that and let you say, No, you're fine. Tell me what you believe, girl. Oh, no. But I mean, it's better than just saying like nothing, you know. Yeah, I don't, you know, I like the way your friend Melissa put it the other day, that it takes quite a bit more effort to believe in nothing than to believe in something. It it goes back to what I said at the beginning of episode or of part one. You know, at the end of the day, there's no scientific proof of any of this, not even spirituality. Where the difference is for me is that it's when it's used, when it's weaponized. You know, although as much as I try and tie science to spirituality, they're still not, you know. So, anyway, I believe in a creator in the sense of a universal force. I don't believe they're humanoid with human-like emotions such as jealousy. Um where I grapple with that a little bit is that that then means I don't necessarily believe that they directly intervene into our lives.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Um, I'm gonna going back to science, Neil deGrasse Tyson is one of my like favorite people, and I love the way he said scientifically the idea that there is a God who is both all-knowing and all-loving is impossible. One way or the other. Explain bone cancer in kids to me, natural disasters. Nature is both beautiful and cruel. Yeah, and that's why I believe that the creator is it just is. We can't understand that. All we understand in this form is beginnings and ends. That's the way time flows for us. Right. So, um, but you know, rather than being disheartened by the idea that the creator doesn't care about me, I think there are interventions in our lives all the time, but they're through divine expressions, as you called them. Plants, animals, happenstance chances. Think about the way we met. This is one of my favorite stories. You were almost gonna have to go out of town um for work that week.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

And it ended up getting a trial was canceled, or it was uh the person took a plea deal, whatever, it didn't happen. And you came to this plea deal. Was it? I'm sorry. I think it just settled. Okay, my bad. I forget that you don't do like you do personal injury stuff. So like I forget there's no pleas, I guess. Um I I'm definitely in the dramatic court sense in my mind. Anyway, but had you gone out of town for work, you would have missed the spiritual workshop I was working at where you met me. And then you probably you by your own admission, I was like, You really think I think we would have met because you were leaning into it and you're like, no, I probably wouldn't have gone to our friend Justin's place. I wouldn't, I just happened to see this. Yeah, it was fall. I was feeling like I wanted to get into some witchy shit. Yeah, and I went. So it's like the the butterfly effect. Yeah. Anyway, trying to land the plane here. So yeah, I don't believe in this humanoid figure who lives up in the sky as this toxic, patriarchal, authoritarian figure. So yeah, nature, like I said, ascended spirits such as Jesus, Buddha, um, regular people and their kindness, animals.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Some people, you know, when they describe a terrible human being, they're like, he's a fucking animal. And I I get it. I'm not trying to be like, I disagree. But I am an animal person. I get along with animals so much more than humans.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

And I believe that they're true purity. People get that idea of their savagery from the fact that animals do kill, but animals do not kill for sport. They don't kill for some weird, twisted, deviant pleasure. Yeah. They kill out of survival, one way or another. They need to eat, they need to protect themselves, they need to whatever. I love animals. So expressions like that are the way I think that our lives have maybe intervened in. And so maybe that's the idea. That we come to earth with zero scientific proof that any deity exists at all. But the point is what you do with that. Do you choose the vibrations of love and kindness and acceptance, or do you have to be told? Right. Do you have the discernment to develop your own moral compass as an adult, or do you need the threat of eternal damnation?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

You tell me which you feel more safe with. Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Um I do think that like a lot of people would argue, like, well, of course, of course I would be a good person if I didn't have to be, but I don't know how true that is. I mean, there's I mean, the people that we know in our daily lives, sure, okay, yes, we'll we'll go ahead and give you that. But there are people who will not do certain things because they fear that the Lord is watching. Yeah, they may be struck. They don't really want to. Yeah. Even though they really want to. And I think eventually those. Oh man, I was trying to say it. What is it? Those roosters come to what is the what is the phrase?

SPEAKER_02 31:29

I don't know. Please be southern for a moment. I don't know. I tried so hard just now. You do a good impression of like a southern old lady like your Mima. I know. Dang it. No, I don't know which I don't know what the phrase was. Those roosters come to crow. Just make some shit up.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

Those roosters come to passenger.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

That is neither cheese nor cheddar. Just start saying nonsense shit.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Like you mean. I always thought the phrase like don't throw the baby out with the bath water was so weird. I was like, what? Who the fuck would do that? I know. I'm like, what a weird phrase. Anyway, you're saying anyway, um, I think eventually those things come out, you know? And I, you know, I think that's why a lot of times we have um gay suppression.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Is that what you're about to say? Well, yeah, and I was gonna say, we m talked about some of this in our original or Queen James episode. I think it, you know, in our society, boys are conditioned to just be a man in every toxic way you can think of. Yeah. That's gay, that's feminine, that's weak, that's whatever essentially is the message, right? Women, you know, especially like us, we were we grew up with the same like fears. Well, actually, you never questioned being gay when you were young, but you know, we're conditioned similarly, except naturally women just kind of tend to be more comfortable with fluidity. Yeah. Sexual fluidity, that is. So anyway, I think if men, boys, and children, and I don't mean this in any appropriate way whatsoever, but if they felt the space to explore those ideas, maybe figure some things out when they were young and to talk about safe. Yes, like if I don't know, some of the most secure men I can think of off the top of my head right now are okay to admit when they think like a man is very attractive. Like, I'm not gay, but if I was, and I just think that's so refreshing because you won't hear many men say that, even if they are secure in their sexuality, they've just been like, mm-mm. Um, and you know, some of them, like uh, I'm gonna use my brother as an example. My brother was in the Navy, very gay. He's not gay, the Navy's gay. Anyway, but no, he was just like, you have to get comfortable with like not literal homoeroticism, but everybody's naked, everybody's you're on this tight ship, it's so gay. Everything about it is gay. But's and coconuts.

unknown 33:45

Kind of.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

And he's just like, whatever, you know. Of course, there was a time in my life that I was like, do I? And then he's like, nah. I like women.

SPEAKER_05 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

That should be normal. Right. Is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 33:58

Yeah. No, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

So our beliefs evolve all the time. We probably believe different things three years ago than we do now. So, what do you believe today? Today. Today.

SPEAKER_05 34:13

Today is very similar to what I believed like three years ago, but it does evolve constantly as new information crosses my brain.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

And I think that's kind of the point is to stay open to, you know, uh what am I learning now that I didn't know before? What what resonates, what doesn't. There are things that I hear that I'm like, nah, you know. And I kind of write it off immediately. But, you know, for me, I do agree with you that there is a universal source. Um, one divine intelligence kind of underlying everything. And I do believe that the great prophets and teachers were all equal expressions of that source. So to me, I like to describe it as like rays of the same sun, right? Um the plants, the crystals, the gifts, the abilities, the energy, all of that was given to us intentionally because we are divine. Um we are not separate from God as much as everybody kind of tries to keep God and humans separate, right? Um, we are expressions of the divine. And I like to say divine better than God. I I'm kind of with you, it's a little bit of a trigger word to me. Divinity, yeah. Divinity is like my favorite way to explain it. Divinity, divine, love it. Um, but for me, there's no hierarchy at all, right? It's the human systems, it's the humans that enacted the rules, the dogmas, the institutions. Those things are what created separateness between divinity and humans. Yeah. Okay. Um apparently, in kind of doing a little bit of research, what I believe is perennial philosophy, I'd never heard of that before. Um, which is the idea that all major religious traditions share a single universal truth at their core. And I mean, I mean, I don't mean all, because I'm not like grouping like Scientologists in this, you know. Um, but you know, even Yogananda, which I almost said shout out like he's listening, but um, if you can ever read the autobiography of a yogi, it's not a book about yoga, it is an amazing book. I listened to all 20 hours of it or whatever. It's really good. And if you want to be this person, you can also watch the documentary about him. It's amazing. I loved it. Anyway, so Yogananda taught this explicitly, um, and it connects to like Vedic philosophy too. Um, as above, so below, essentially. And so the rays, you know, R-A-Y-S to the sun, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Yogananda. Jesus taught love at its core before the institution got involved. And I I saw a video the other day that was like Jesus was soft, he was feminine, he was kind, he was kind to women, he was kind to poor people, he was kind to sex workers, he was a feminine expression. He does things, he did things that people considered miraculous, and like, oh my gosh, how amazing. But women do this stuff all this time.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Yeah, like what okay, anyway. Um I'm sorry, can I pause you just a second? Absolutely. What you just said made me think of a new uh question for demonic or not or whatever. What as above, so below, what would it be to society?

SPEAKER_04 38:02

I always thought that it was like a demonic expression. I thought it was like a satanic thing. Great.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

What about as it is in heaven, so shall it be on earth. Right. I know, yeah, totally. Uh it's just funny, and then also I meant to say earlier, any pretty much anything that goes against church doctrine is satanic. So hala. For sure. That's why sometimes I'll call myself satanic, but I don't worship Satan.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Yeah, most Satanists don't. They don't. That's a whole other thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

I have an episode on that too, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:31

The most, you know, talking about finishing wrapping up, talking about Jesus, the most subversive thing that about Jesus was that he kept pointing people back to their own inner divinity, and the church, not Jesus, built the hierarchy on top of that message. Yep. Muhammad, um, what he actually taught was to surrender to the divine, radical equality, uh, direct personal relationship with God, requiring no like inter, like there was no intermediate in between. Like you didn't have to act, you didn't have to perform to get his love. Yeah. Like you didn't, you were not born incomplete and wrong and a sinner. Um Buddha, what he actually taught was that suffering comes from attachment and liberation. That's the big, that's the big thing in Buddhism is letting go of attachment and finding liberation. Yep. Right? Attachment to the outcome, attachment to your ideals, attachment to people, attachment to things.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

I was gonna say people probably think of it primarily in just things, but it's all ideas, yeah. Like just relinquishing that.

SPEAKER_05 39:40

A lot of people think that Buddhism is worshipping Buddha, but it's not, it's really not even a religion. It's just a way of theology. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

I wrote a paper on that in a college because I just I studied role religions and philosophy.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

But it points to the same truth that our fundamental nature is already whole, it's already free, and it's already luminous. That's why I I am not Buddhist, and I'm not gonna act like I know so much about it, but like I really respect Buddhism. Yeah, like I really do. Uh, one of my favorite places that I've been to was a massive Buddhist temple um in Dallas.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

You were so happy about that?

SPEAKER_05 40:16

It was it felt divine. Like you just walk in and it's just like wow, like you can't help but be in awe.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:23

You know what I mean? Um, Krishna, and what the Bhagavad Gita actually teaches is that the divine is within you and that you should act from that truth without attachment to outcomes. Um, it says that you have the right to perform your actions, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions, meaning ego dissolution and divine uh alignment. Krishna also explicitly said that he appears in every age in whatever form that people need. So he's essentially acknowledging that he is the one ray of the larger source.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

So he is Hekate. He is Hekate.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Sorry, it just made me appearing in every form. That was kind of cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:07

And Yogananda, um, you know, I I understand there's not an entire religion written around Yogananda's life. He did establish the church of um self-realization. Nice, which I would love to go to one day if I could. Um but this is why he matters in my personal belief, is because he came to the West to show that Christianity and Hinduism were essentially teaching the same thing. He came to to show unity, you know? Um, and his book, his autobiography, is essentially a manual for understanding that healing and energy work and expanded states of consciousness are the natural inheritance of every human being, not just gifts given to a specific few from the divine. Um, he taught that Kriya yoga is a scientific method for experiencing the divine directly. And while I can't say that I have ever done 26 frog pose uh and then felt God, I do believe that a mix of what I I just remember learning about is that what it's called, or am I thinking of something different?

SPEAKER_02 42:28

When you were first teaching for your certification, you were teaching online classes, and so I would attend. Uh-huh. Um, and all I could think of was like, I definitely didn't find God when my thighs were burning. I was just like.

SPEAKER_05 42:41

Well, it's kind of like that one time when somebody suggested to me that Kundalini Yoga was demonic. And I said, I'm pretty sure that if Lucifer is gonna show up for anything, it's not gonna be for Breath of Fire or Adi Shodana. Like, I just don't think that breath work inherently summons the devil. I just think he's got cooler shit to do.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah, I didn't know he was so generous with his time. Leave Korean Jesus alone because he got shit to do.

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Korean stuff. Um so, like, every single one of these examples that I'm giving, it's just a version of the same thing, you know, and like I love, I love, I love social media in this regard because it provides opportunity for people to see something that they wouldn't see outside of their front door.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:36

So there was one video that I saw of this man. Um, he was Islamic and he was having a conversation with a Christian, and he was like, who was, I think, maybe even protesting him. I don't know. It seemed a little heated at first from the Christian's standpoint, of course. And he said, Tell me what you believe. And he starts going through in the The other man is going, Yep, yep, yep. And starts saying, like, all of these things are also in the Quran. Like, we believe Islam and Christianity are the closest two religions. Like, and they have no e it's not that it's one of them has no idea. The other one is Christianity has no idea how close Islam is to it.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Well, not I'm sorry, because again, this was not supposed to be a bashing episode, but we were talking to Melissa about this. There's only one of you going around the world. Oh. You know what I mean? There's only one of these beliefs that is going around trying to change people's minds. Believing that their bumper stickers and billboards are saving someone.

SPEAKER_05 44:45

Right. I did love making that point. Not that I loved making that point, but I just, you know, we we pass by a very hateful billboard almost every single day. Yep. Um, what's one of the what's I can't remember what one of them said.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

I was only laughing about the one that was just like, um, it confused me. It sounded like they're against the idea of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Essentially the Holy Trinity. They were like, God is one, not three. I'm like, Yeah. What are you talking about? Three is a divine. Oh my god. I'm sorry, I could geek out for a minute. I want to talk about Jesus, I want to talk about Hecate. I want to like three is a special number.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

But I will not.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Um, but I just the fucking you can tell these are like on the extreme end of religious zealots.

SPEAKER_05 45:31

But I was just gonna say, like, no hateful billboard has ever saved somebody.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

No. Ever. You made me kind of crack up when you said, Who the fuck is driving along in traffic and sees a bumper sticker that says, Have you found Jesus? And they go, you know, I fucking forgot about him. Or like I never heard of him till today. Thank you, Joe Bob, for your sticker. Look this Jesus up. Never hate of him. And I'm and I'm gonna fall in love.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

I'm gonna look this Jesus up. This Jesus you speak of.

SPEAKER_05 46:06

But I'll just wrap mine up as like that. That is essentially my belief system is that the divine is within all of us. It's not separate from us. The kingdom is within, is what biblically was said. You are already Buddha nature. Atman is Brahmin. I mean, it's all the same message. Every institution is built on these teachings, but eventually inverted that message into you are separate, you are insufficient. You need us to get back to what you never left. And I just don't believe in that anymore. I do not need a pastor, a priest, anybody to give me any more hope or any more insight or any anything like that. I I know that it's within me. I know that I have the power.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yeah. Like I said, I've gone off about how harmful it is, but just I don't believe we start life six feet in a hole of wrongness. Yeah. You know, um.

SPEAKER_05 47:19

But I mean, it just you have children that you are telling that they are not whole without Jesus. And like that shit sticks with you. You learn that I am incomplete. I you learn that you are you were born into sin. Yeah. And some people carry that around with them at a cellular level. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

And I mean, this isn't we we talked about this in the other on the episode on the original show, that just it's this design and programming that everything is external. Everything from purity to wholeness to God, like that it's just all your happiness is external, your validity. That's what I was thinking of. It's all external, and it's quite the opposite.

SPEAKER_05 48:13

Yeah. Absolutely, it's a hundred percent internal.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

So I know that you were really dying to talk about deities.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Not so much dying. I don't know. I just have stuff. Go for it. I think one of the questions was like, how is it different working with divine energies versus this default religion, if you will. And so I just I think working with chosen divine energies rather than those inherited is liberating.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Um and especially after being taught that talking to anyone or anything but God or Jesus was blasphemous.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Um, that was just a grain of sand of my journey when I said I had to leave it all behind and maybe even delve into what I was taught to fear. Um and then to answer um I could get into it later. I don't know what we have time for, or even what some people, when that like say we say they're gonna shut off the episode. But uh some deities found me, some I found, I would like to think. Um I think it asked about like what's keeping an altar like. And I just wrote lol, I'm the laziest witch you'll ever meet. Um, but you know, I keep bringing up Hecate, or it's really in Greek it would be ekate, but um sometimes I'm lazy when I talk, so we're just gonna say Hecate. But if you don't know, um I her from what I understand, her negative connotation actually came up when Shakespeare wrote her in as a character of one of his stories, and I can't remember which one off the top of my head, but essentially there are so many different expressions of this three-sided energy, like the maiden, the mother, the crone, stuff like that. But, anyways, I that is one who I feel like I found accidentally, so that's the question. Did they find me? Did I find them? I don't know. In the age of the internet, it's hard to say, but I all I remember is that I wasn't looking, and I discovered that there is a being, an energy, if you will, who is all about loving and protecting and honoring dogs, all animals, especially dogs, and I thought, I've never like known that there was this the heavens parted.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

Yes. I was just like and then like angelic sounds.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Right, and so let me let me pause to backtrack a little bit and say the only way that it differs from prayer to me, like practice versus prayer, is that I was taught that prayer was sort of, or rather, my interpretation, I'll say, because of my conditioning, was that prayer was more like begging for something, hoping you were worthy of it.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Not doing the real work. Like I said, working with deities feels like business and a sense of a friend or family, depending.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Um, so I'm I'm gonna try not to get emotional, but I've had to put two dogs down in less than two years. Um, they nothing crazy happened, they just were old and aging, and um, so you know, that for me looked like lighting a candle on I created a space for Hecate. I've honored her in my home. It's not, it's not the same as like I and when I say a business, it's not even just a bargain. Like people might think, Oh, I met a crossroads demon, yeah, and I sold my soul for some. That's not what it is. But there is a way to honor energies the same way you would things on any other thing on earth, plants, animals, whatever. So, anyway, it's like I have honored her by giving her a space in my home, and on that same space sits things like wolf fur, bones, keys, um, and now a little pomegranate in it. And now some paw prints and nose prints from my puppers. And I was able to feel like I could say, Hey, could you could you just be there with my baby crosses? Yeah. And that gave me comfort. And even if, yeah, there's anyone out there could just be like, bitch, what? Like, and then I understand. It's like we said before, I understand it's fair for people to think that this is all insane, like astrology. Um, but that's so much more fulfilling to me than just like, oh, I pray that because you know, you don't hear about animals in heaven. Not really.

SPEAKER_05 52:32

I mean, then the When we they made a whole movie about it.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

I was about to say, when we were kids, we got to grow up with a movie called All Dogs Go to Heaven. I bet you loved that movie. I did, except for when it was sad, like the idea that they were dead, even though you're you're literally watching the ghosts of them on the movie. Anyway, but actually, yeah, I suddenly remembered that I think I don't know that I'm not saying it was my mom, but someone who was also Christian told me when I was young, no, there are no animals in heaven, they don't have a soul.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Yeah. That was damaging to me. Um, so all of that is just to wrap this up and say, yeah, me full-blown admitting, it's not like I've denied that I practice witchcraft, but sometimes that comes some people don't work with deities. That's the beauty of all this. You can choose to, you can choose not to. I'm not going to burn in a fiery pit of despair. Yeah. Because of it, plain and simple.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

Well, I think that leads it to a really good segue of the question that we were asked. Um, because you were just talking about one of your experiences that I think this question is perfect for you specifically to answer. Do you feel like doing that? Yeah. Are you ready to get into our question?

SPEAKER_04 53:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:34

Okay. Dear podcast. These are thoughts for your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Thoughts for your thoughts.

SPEAKER_05 53:41

I left the church three years ago, and I have done so much healing work since then, but my mom still prays for my soul every time that she sees me and tells me that she's worried that I'm going to help. I love her and I know that she means well, but it is exhausting, and I don't know how to set a boundary without blowing up our relationship. What do I do?

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Um I feel like I I want to be vulnerably honest in saying that I did not immediately walk the walk of the talk I'm about to talk. Essentially. Um so it it took a while, and I mean a while, like only up until recently have I said some really difficult things to my mom. Um and even those actually were not uh religion related, right? But but it helped me a lot. And no matter what the cost, you deserve those boundaries. Like there is no cost, that's priceless. Your space and your self-respect and your boundaries are priceless.

SPEAKER_05 54:52

And feeling of safety.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Yes. Um, so you have to draw them if you want to be happy. Sometimes drawing boundaries does lead to estrangement and no contact. And I won't deny that it's painful in some ways, but you can't spend your life prioritizing other people's comfort over yours. 100%. Um, you know, believing that I'm an expression of the divine does change the way I treat myself. And so if a person were to ask me, you know, uh, like they're or rather, they want to walk away from the church or from religion, and they're so fearful that they're going to walk away from God, I would say you can't walk away from divinity.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

As an expression of the divine, you will never be far from it. You can't. It flows within you.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

And going on your own journey to use discernment and critical thinking skills does not mean you are bad, wrong, a sinner, or will be struck down for having your own thoughts. Your thoughts.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

Having your thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Uh, but that's me. What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 55:53

I I agree with you a hundred percent. I feel like I feel like your mom has already kind of told you what she thinks. Like, she knows that you don't believe this same thing. Um, she continues to it's one thing to be like, well, I'm not gonna stop praying for my daughter. Yeah, like there's one thing for you to just be doing it, it's another to continue to like vocalize it, that like I am I'm praying for you. And pray what did she say, praying for your soul? Like that mother, yeah, like I no. Yeah, that's again. I think that even I just want you to be prepared that if and when you are able to set this boundary, it there's likely not gonna be this, like, okay, I'm so sorry, honey. I didn't know that I was overstepping and made you feel this way. I'll never do it again. I will absolutely respect this boundary. I think she's already seen that there is a line in the sand, and she is choosing to cross it because at this point her faith has become a little stronger than her morals as your mother. Yeah. And I know that sounds really strong, and I mean it that way as a mother myself. Yep. There is nothing that my children could do that would make me feel like my feelings and my beliefs are more important than their feeling of safety and security. Savior complex thing again.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:24

Oh my gosh, I can't. So I just I I've been surrounded by many of people who have cut off their parents, and I am not gonna sit here and act like I know what that feels like. Um, I have a very interesting relationship with one of my parents, but I've seen it, and it's hard, and it is so incredibly painful for the children that have to do this with their parents. And it's not something to be taken lightly, but it's also not something that you have to completely write off as impossible if you feel like that is something that you need to do. If if the rhetoric, if the conversation becomes harmful, and if you feel like you can't even have a conversation with your mom without this being brought up, then you might need to set an even harder boundary. Like if you can't, then we're not gonna talk. Yeah. And it's hard, and I'm really sorry, and I I hate this. Um, it's why people stay in the uh lovingly dubbed broom closet. You know, they stay in all sorts of different closets. And as a mom, I I never want my children to feel like they have to be in any form of a closet. It doesn't matter what kind it is. Yeah, you know. I mean, I have again, I gotta plug my little niece. I have a little baby niece, and like every time that I hold her, I just like that's divinity right there. That is divinity. That's purity, that is pure divinity. She knows no malice, no. And she is perfection, and all I want to do is hold her and contain that and build her up and show her all of the like I can't imagine at some point being like, oh, you know what? Actually, like this is what I believe, and I want to make you feel unsafe. Yeah, like I don't understand if you don't believe it too. Yeah, I don't understand how how the mindset goes from you're an infant, I want to protect you, protect you, protect you, to I see that you're hurting by my words, and I don't care because I believe that my words are right, and you need to be protecting you from eternal damage.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

Yeah, like get on board or you will burn.

SPEAKER_05 59:52

No, and and they try to make it sound like that's love. I'm saving, I'm teaching you. You were not required to be saved, you are not required to save other people. That's my spiel on that. So ah, look at our time is great on this episode. If we would have made this one, that would have been two hours long. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

So you're welcome. And this gave me not gonna be dishonest about this. It gives me a way of putting out an episode even when I'm on vacation.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

Yeah, how fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

I'm so excited for you. So I'm on the boat right now, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:27

She's on a boat, bitches. But I I understand that this episode was pretty heavy and it's a pretty heavy topic for being episode three. Um, our next episode is gonna be a little lighter. We're gonna be talking about our healing era. Like when we decided that enough was enough. I don't want to feel like this anymore. What are the things that we did that we wouldn't do again? What are the things that we did that we would absolutely stand on a mountaintop and tell people like, hey, this worked for me. And maybe, I don't want to say maybe it'll work for you, but I just I'm proud of kind of where we are, yeah, individually, you know, as human beings. Um I would like to invite any of our listeners, if you want to share your story, feel free to uh send us voice memos. Those are some of our favorite things to get. I want to hear your podcasts. Send us questions. You can find us, you mainly, on Instagram. One underscore October underscore midnight.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Yes, one October midnight.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:36

One October midnight. Um, like I said, feel free to write in, ask us any questions. We are brilliant. We can solve all of your problems. Like, I know we just got finished telling you that you can solve your own problem. No, it's us. We got it. So, anything else that you want to say before we close on our extremely deep hour long with our fans?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

I don't think so. Just I just can't stress enough. Um how do I say this? So I do tarot readings, as has been said before. Yeah. Um, and I always I describe them as spiritual therapy sessions. Um, because I'm not trying to tell you these cards have the answer, that these cards are the power, just like I said earlier. I believe that sometimes we need to, we need another perspective that's not our own, and it's not even my perspective this person's getting. I'd like to think that this is the way that we reach our higher consciousness, if you will. You are, you know, we're too much in our own head, so we you have a stranger pull some cards, and that's what I do for people. So anyway, I often see that there are messages in other people's readings for myself. I'm very careful not to put my own ego in things. I'm just saying I don't tell them about it, but I can see something for me in each and every one of them. And I'm like, okay, so all that is to say I feel like I attract many, many young people who are like struggling with their families, struggling with their identities, wanting to leave this town, you know, stuff like that. So I just I say the same thing to them. They I'm I'm at that middle age now where I'm like, what do the kids say? Unk. Yep, I'm unk now. Your unk status? I'm unk there. You go. That sounds like an honor. I'm unk status. Unk status. So it's like where people in their 20s are so much younger than me, and but I'm also not super old, so I'm still relatable. Sure. So I think it's impactful and I care what I say to them. Um and they I they do, I I kind of take on this like older sibling energy, and I just try and tell them that this is most of what we've been saying. Your whole, your journey is always gonna be your own. And sometimes when you draw boundaries, people don't like that. Yeah. People don't like when you change and it's no longer convenient for them, and they will say things like, you think you're too good, or um, you know, all the things you can imagine, and it's just it's it's gonna be hard sometimes, but nothing is worth your peace. And it's okay to put you first. Yeah, we're all conditioned to within martyrdom sometimes, and there's a difference between self-love and selfishness. There's such a big difference, and you've got to love yourself before anyone else can love you. And I know I tell me my clients I go, I know this sounds very fortune cookie, but it is kind of basic. Um, you have to know and love yourself, or no one else will.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:32

Oof. I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know if I agree with Miss RuPaul anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Miss RuPaul. No. I don't I shouldn't say or no one else will, but that you you knowing your own value.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:43

Sometimes I know from personal experience, I have loved many a people with my whole chest, truly, and I did not love myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

No, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:54

But I I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

I'm letting yeah, I'm letting them know. So I'll give an example. I don't ever try and get too sappy. This is just I I express a lot of love to you on the show, just as my one of my favorite humans, and so this goes into that same thing. I was thinking about this the other day. I can say with my whole chest, no one has seen as much of me as you have. No one's seen like all of me. And I I don't, you know, that probably sounds like there's like skeletons in the closet, and that's not even what I mean. I mean I can talk I can think about how in past relationships I usually I don't want them to know how much I listen to this music. I don't want them to know how weird I am about this or that. Like I've always been a pretty weird person, and I didn't really ever let anyone see me. I didn't think about it at the time. I just thought that's my business or whatever. Um, so yeah, no one has seen me like you, and but you like I you you helped, obviously, but I gave my spells myself the space to to just be who I am, and that's weird that it took me this long because you're giving. These messages all your life and they feel so empty, like be who you are. Who cares what people think? But they're usually by people who care very much what people think. Yeah. So you're like, you don't really believe it, or you think it's not real, or it's some unattainable thing, and so I mean it when I'm like, you you have to be like, I am XYZ, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Before anyone else can respect you in the same way, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

I think that if I can kind of add to that a little bit, what I was gonna say is that I think that once you can find a form of self-love, when you can find that admiration for yourself and appreciation and respect, then that makes receiving other people's love so much more powerful and impactful because it's not just blind love, like I love you, okay, cool, thanks. Like you know the impact of what that means a little bit better, a little bit more is what I should say.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

Well, and also when you have learned to love yourself, you believe people when they say they love you and they accept you. You've watched me struggle with like trust issues and thinking that someone has an ulterior motive. Like they say this, but yeah, and you know, I'm not trying to be like it's not my fault, but it just comes from a lifetime of wounds and scars of people saying one thing and doing another or doing one thing and saying another.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

Um, so you know, I what did I say? That definition of love that I read. It was like giving knowing someone has all the power in the world to absolutely crush you and trusting that they won't.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

That's what like that is.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:36

Well, and what I was gonna say also to anybody that's listening, anybody that's struggling, um find a community if you can. Like a community of lesbians. Uh find yeah. In the words of my mentor, find you a community of lesbians. But also in the words of my mentor, I don't think she actually said it. She was quoting it, but if you want to go deep, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. Find somebody. Yeah. Do you have your what is it? Oh, dang out. I'm finding Nemo.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

Do you have your something buddy?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

What is it? Um the buddy sister. Your b uh it's not like beach buddy. Daggum it. Is is it an alliteration though? Like, I don't even remember. Oh well. Anyway. I told Landon that the other day. Hold my fin. Hold my fin. Me and my coworker, Alyssa, shout out if you're listening, but we we do like give me something. Noggin.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:43

Alright. Well, have fun on the boat. We will see you. Hopefully, you come back. Yeah, I don't mean that in a morbid way. I meant that like in a running away from America and from your responsibility today.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

I'm just gonna call you from Belize and be like, I live here now. Yeah. Turns out I missed the boat. Can you send me my car? Your car? Can you send me my dog? Yeah, she would do well.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:09

She would do well to go to Belize. Anyway. Anyway, all right. Thanks for joining us. Oh, I'm gonna plug it since you're not going to. Oh, I am. Anybody that does want a tarot reading, um, this girl over here, I'm serious. I'm not even trying to be biased, gives amazing tarot readings. And if you're a little introvert like her, you don't have to come see her in person. She'll pour the cards for you and tell you in a voice memo. Or type it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

Yeah, my favorite thing in the world is to text people. Yeah. Before calling me. Ask yourself, is this textable? That's exactly what's happening. So if you would like a tarot reading, reach out to reach out to Lindsay over here. I do. I'll send you a picture of the cards and explain what they mean, and then you have the text or whatever to refer back to. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, for full moon, nope. Nope. Dark moon, full moon. What's that? For a full moon, no moon. You're just fucking this name up. What's our show called? Froth. Wait, no. Do the um I'm sorry. We're never gonna leave this. What? The Ziggy Marley's character on Shark Tales, or both of them, the jellyfish, the stone jellyfish.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:18

Oh, when they answer the phone, the prize is very calling werewash where the price is very, very low. Rhymes with gosh. I feel dumb right now like that. Like we're just stone. Like our dark moon, full moon. This is Lauren. I'm Lindsay. We'll catch you next time. Bye. Bye. Cool.