Episode 1 Tax Assessor Brad Fowler

Alamance County Tax Assessor Brad Fowler talks property taxes and what a tax assessor does at the county level. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Alright, today we've got Mr. Brad Fowler, Alamance County Tax Assessor, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

And uh do they they call you Brad, not Bradley, right? That's right. I'm gonna let everybody know that your real name is Bradley Dean, right? That's right. So you can be looked up. Everybody's mad at you. They can find you. Right. Uh what are we uh we're talking about taxes, we're talking about um tax assessment and what you do as far as your position, but mainly to get kind of people um familiar with what's going on with tax valuations, kind of the increases, and kind of get some, you know, some heads up of what's going on. So what do you do? First off, when you Google Brad Fowler, I I'm totally ticked off at one thing. What's that? Uh you do not mention there's nowhere on Google that says you worked here in 2007. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I was a top performing salesman at that. He's your only salesman.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I don't I don't quite understand why like help of reality is not number one as far as when you Google Rad Fowler, like it should say. Help of Realty uh 2007 to 200, 12 or whatever it was, 11, 10. Uh before it says all that the accomplishments that you've done and all the speeches that you've done. I was trying to distance myself from you asked. Well, tell us what you do uh as far as tax assessment and your position.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, sure. And first of all, thanks for having me. I think this is uh it's something that you and I talk about quite often. Um as as crazy as that seems, you're in the real estate business, I'm in the tax business, and so you call with questions. And this gives us a time not only for us to connect more on that, but also to connect uh your clientele and the public with what tax assessors do and kind of uh terms of revaluation, what does that mean, the appeals process, uh exemption programs. We can kind of go through all that uh as we talk today. But my primary job is to assess all uh property in the county. I currently am the tax administrator in Alamance County. Uh we have about 80,000 parcels in that county that I'm responsible for making sure that the assessments for property tax purposes occur, as well as all our business personal property, registered motor vehicles, and that sort of thing. Um but primarily, and the one that folks most key in on is that revaluation and that uh property tax for real estate.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

As far as real estate. Yeah. So what are you seeing as far as you don't have to tell me everything, but what what are you seeing as far as the actual general public coming in? Now, first of all, have y'all in Alamance, have y'all done your increase like some of the surrounding areas?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

So we have a uh 2027 scheduled revaluation. So we'll have our January 1, 2027, it'll be our first uh first time since in the last four years that we've done that. Um, you know, Guilford and and Davidson here in Davidson, uh, they've done theirs uh this past year. Right. And so uh I'm sure you've gotten a lot of calls about that and talking with some of your clients and stuff about that process.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yeah, I've done well, I've helped with 22 appeals here uh around the office in mainly Thomasfield, Lexington area. But um, you know, and a couple other agents here have done, you know, five, six, seven um comparable sales, you know, kind of given to the client to to maybe do an appeal with. And I've already actually heard some of them got results back, which I was super kind of surprised that they got an answer that quick. That was for Davison County. So so y'all, your county, Alamance, is for 2027 scheduled. Is that already pretty much appraised as far as for the 27?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, so what we what we did there in in Alamance is we have an outside firm uh that's conducting the revaluation for us. Um a lot of counties will do that just because they don't have the capacity. Sure. Uh so we have uh an outside firm. They started their work about a year and a half, two years ago, in which they will go out and review all the properties in the county, making sure that the listings are correct or as accurate as possible. And then subsequent to that, they start in on the valuation process. So they in the last actually in the last week or two, uh, they have finalized the review process and now they're starting into the valuation phase. Because the effective date of a revaluation is January 1st of in this case 2027, uh, we have they they're just now analyzing the sales data that will be utilized and we'll do so all the way through the end of the year. I gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

So it's a how long from start to finish you think that process is to let people know. It's it's it's not like, oh, you know, I think a lot of people around here they're thinking that you guys are just like clicking a button. It's like, oh, your house is doubled, and and that's what they think, but that's not what happens.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

It's not, not at all. It takes it takes a good two, two and a half years uh to conduct the reevaluation. That's longer than I thought. Um and so and then you and then on the back end you factor in the appeals process and that sort of thing. Yeah, it's even uh soup to nuts, you've probably got three years invested in a reevaluation.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

And then it's every you might have said this, it's every how many years far as Alamance County goes.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, so North Carolina General Statute 105-286 says that all counties in North Carolina must conduct a revaluation at least once every eight years. Eight years, okay. Alamance County is is much like the rest of the state now, in which they have elected to advance that cycle to a four-year cycle. And that just allows us or the county uh to keep values and assessments very close to one another. So, folks, those eight-year spans, if you can imagine, uh that's uh violent swings that folks would take in their property values. Yeah. Uh so four four is bad enough, I guess you would say, and then then you have the eight-year.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

And you got the eight-year. Yeah. I I mean, I've heard a lot of different things, and I'm gonna be completely honest. Like the ones that I've ran are, you know, of course, are different county, but I'm sure you see the same thing. A lot of the complaints, I'm being honest, is usually they've got the value pretty close. I mean, some of them obviously could be, you know, looked at as as being a little high, but you know, the ones that I've looked at, I'm like, well, really, it's kind of close to where it used, you know, it really needs to be. And they're like, oh no, you know, it can't be that high. I bought it for this. And it's like, yeah, but you bought it 15, 20 years ago, you know. Yeah. So it's it's an argument.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

And I think that's important for, you know, you're in the business, and so you see sales, you see transactions, you know what these things are doing day in and day out. The the general public, unfortunately, you know, that's they they they do other jobs, they've got other careers, and so they don't see that interaction. So you kind of have a a different perspective and you know, and so it's uh it is eye-opening, uh, especially in the last few years since the COVID time frame. We've saw incredible changes in the real estate market and increases, and and so um that's captured during the revaluation as we're trying to to re-establish the tax base there and um support fairness and equity by by reallocating values as they need to be. So uh yeah, it it's uh it's good that you're able to talk to them about that.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, I you know, I think really the problem that I see, you know, in this office at least, is 2022 roughly, maybe coming out of 2021, this was you know, past COVID, we had just a crazy increase in sale uh not just volume, but prices, you know, as far as value on actual sales. So for instance, for the general public, if you've got 10 houses on one street and eight of them sell in about a two-year period, you know, 22 to 23, and they all go above uh appraisal. That is completely what happened. Um some people were given, you know, five, ten, fifteen thousand dollars over uh list price. Well, what what do you think that happens to the next house? You know, that house sold for ten thousand dollars more than you know, than their list price. Now that's a comparable, you know. So that's kind of what happened in the uh general area here, and it created just a problem of it sounds crazy to say it's a problem of higher value, but people just didn't understand. Well, why, you know, why is my house tax value now? It's a hundred thousand dollars more than I paid for it, and I bought it in two thousand. Well, in 2009, different market, lower values, and then of course we hit 2022. So that's what we see here. Um how did you start, like what was your first position? We'll we'll kind of ask that, uh, besides the main, you know, the main position at Help A Reality here in 2007. Uh, then this is why I did the first episode with Brad Fowler, is because he's the first one that came here to Help A Reality. I was a one-man show in 2006. Brad comes in 07. Um, I don't have I should have your sales here, but you did pretty good in the first year or two, you know. You did you did good in a kind of a weird, wonky uh market. Of course, everybody knows, you know, 08, 09 was pretty rough. Um and that's when Mr. Brad Fowler was selling. So uh what is your first position after that?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, so I started in Davidson County back in 2005. Um I actually started out in land records, which is the deed transfer process and and putting those things on the books. Okay. So that was my first role there. Um, and then very shortly thereafter moved into the appraisal side and worked as a real estate uh appraiser for the county uh and then moved on to Mecklenburg County, um, where I was uh into commercial appraisal there, ended up being the commercial property manager.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So you've done residential and commercial. I didn't I don't even know if I realized the commercial in those. So you did residential and commercial.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yep, residential and commercial. Okay. And um uh long story short, and I've been the tax administrator in a couple different counties, uh, Catawba County and now Alamance County, uh, but also was the deputy uh in uh Mecklenburg County just before I took this job. I've been there for about a year, a little over a year, uh as the tax administrator over both assessment and collections. So um it's quite a quite a task sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

How many people are in your departments?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Uh right now we have yeah, we have 31 people uh over both. Um it's uh it's a much smaller shop than what I was accustomed to in Mecklenburg where we had 125 people in the office.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Um but uh yeah, it's still it's it's a challenge because you know sometimes the smaller jurisdictions are actually a little bit more difficult because folks are having to kind of juggle many different things, where in in like a larger jurisdiction, a Mecklenburg County or a Wake County, they're able to specialize more and focus more just on one particular piece. Yeah. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Well, that's that's a lot of people. That's actually probably more than I realized that you had kind of to look over. You know, that's that's a job in itself, you know, just managing and people don't realize that. I mean, if you look up Brad again on Google, um it basically says he's like the tax wizard. So like he's done all these different things. Y'all've y'all have heard, you know, kind of where you started, you know, he's measured houses, right? I mean, you've done, you know, the um walking around properties, your residential, you've done commercial, you've been a tax assessor, different counties. Like, I don't know anybody else that would have more knowledge uh over this subject than you. So that's why you're here, not just because you were the first person that worked for HEPA Realty, but you are the tax wizard. So um what do you think uh is the biz biggest misconception when somebody, as far as just Elements County or or really taxes uh, you know, in general, what do you think the most hard thing that you hear people, the public say that's really not right?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah, I think that the biggest thing is is everyone waits for a revaluation. And the idea behind that is the revaluation is going to make my taxes go up. Uh and unfortunately, that's not the case. The revaluation level sets values uh and promotes fairness across the different property segments across the counties that that that is occurring in. Uh it is the county commissioners' jobs and the municipalities, uh, their leadership, the city councils, to put a tax rate that will suffice for the budgetary needs of that county or that municipality. And so um it's really that that rate adjustment is where you will find if there's going to be a tax increase. Every year that a revaluation occurs, a county and or the municipality has to uh put together a what's called a revenue neutral tax rate and advertise that to uh the the public so they're aware of what revenue neutral would look like. Uh so I think the biggest misconception, once again, is that a revaluation makes your taxes go up. Uh that on its face doesn't accomplish that. It simply redistributes the tax base uh fairly across the different properties. And I'd always try to explain it to people as uh if you and I have houses in two different areas of the county, and the area of the county that your house is in is growing much faster, and mine's you know not growing as much, my value's probably going to be diminished a little bit. And so the revaluation is a chance for us to capture those differences. And so you're paying on what your property value is, and I'm paying the fair value on mine because it's a little bit less in that less desirable location.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Right. Yeah, I I think that makes sense. I think a lot of people will understand that once they, you know, kind of take a take a minute to think about it. Um what about what would you tell the average, you know, uh person paying taxes in your county about any kind of and y'all might not even deal with this at all, but like the neutral, we we hear a lot in Davison County a lot about the neutral tax rate as far as the tax rate changing to make it kind of a neutralized, you know, all your tax value is going up, but your tax rate possibly, possibly could go down. I think they're voting on it actually in like two or three weeks here in this county. But do y'all deal with that as far as the tax rate, as far as, you know, like moving the tax rate at all?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

The the tax office proper does not. That's really a budgetary decision made by uh the county's budget office as well as the county management, and then subsequent the county commissioners would vote on it. Um but yeah, they do have to once again they have to advertise that revenue neutral rate, and all that revenue neutral really means is that the county is going to bring in the same revenue and only account for natural growth. There is no there is no growth considered for the revaluation. Once again, that's not a means to raise property tax revenue. It is literally just a means to redistribute the tax base across the respective properties.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I gotcha. I gotcha. I think I you know, it's one thing that we have uh heard in this office, you know, is like, well, if our tax rate goes down, you know, I I'm in the city and this and that, and that's what we have to kind of not really answer. It's not really on us to answer, but at the same time get enough information, you know, so we can have an educated at least guess. You know, it's like, well, yeah, the city taxes here are probably not. Now, what what city taxes do you guys have uh in Alamance County that you're um that they're also going to have?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, so we have, I mean, all of our our municipalities there, they charge their own uh tax rate. They vote on that independent of the county. It's completely independent, nothing to do with the county. We we collect for a few of them, but as far as having anything to do with their tax rate, the county doesn't at all. And and same thing here. I mean, you have you know Thomasville, Lexington, right? Um they're voting on their own tax rates. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Okay. I gotcha. Well, what do you think the the most favorite, if there is, uh putting a positive light on what you do and all that? Of course, it's an important, huge responsibility. You know that because you've been doing it. And I've been kind of in the, you know, I've talked to you quite a bit over the last, you know, decade or so or more, I guess. Let's say 2007 to yeah, oh yeah. 20 years. 20 years almost. Yeah. It is 20 years, yeah. Uh you're getting old. I'm not getting old. Um, what do you think the most favorite thing uh of your position? You've, you know, you've got some positions that in, you know, me looking in is I think you've done very well. I think you've, you know, hit some very um high responsibility, high reward probably positions, but what's your favorite where you're at now?

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I think it's being able just to help the folks. Uh the the the people that come into our office, especially when we talk about some of our um elderly population. Um, you know, we have the state offers uh some some exemption programs, and one of those is around some of our elderly folks who need assistance. And when they walk into the office and are having trouble um paying their taxes because housing affordability is is obviously a nationwide issue. Sure. Um, it is really nice to be able to actually do something to assist them when we're able to. Um and and to see them, you know, just kind of take a breath because they've been stressing out over paying these property tax bills. Yeah. So I think for me that's the biggest thing. That's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

That's good. I mean that's that's great. Um on the other side, what do you think the hardest thing is? And and a lot of people would imagine it would be the general public complaining, but what what is the and it may not be that, what is the hardest thing uh in your position now where you're at um that is the biggest challenge?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I you I I think I don't know if it's uh so much that that uh as you know folks complaining. I think it's more that folks don't understand and and and immediately assume the the worst because the word tax is involved. And it's uh it's it's something that that the folks that are the professionals that are in the business, we devote a lot of time to not only trying to do the job and and and do it fairly, uh, but also to to make changes. Uh I serve as the chair for the legislative committee here in North Carolina. And one of the things that we do annually is we push for legislation that will help folks in property tax. Um we're pushing for higher limits on our elderly exemption program. Uh we're pushing right now and and have a bill uh out there uh that is going to close some loopholes for some affordable housing that that is is kind of passing through. Um and it's uh you know, to to kind of help folks. So right now we once again we have programs that that help folks, but there we could do a lot more. And so it's it's sometimes it's a little bit challenging because you hear nothing but negative. Right. Uh and you want folks to know too that hey, we're we're trying to help. Sure. You know, we're trying to help out.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Well, I think the main thing is, you know, you guys have a obviously you got a job to do. It's important that county uh budgets and stuff, you know, have the correct, not just enough, but uh the correct amount of funding, you know, to come in to do the things that counties I don't think the general public in in my view, this is completely me talking, but I don't think they realize how expensive it is to run, you know, an entire entire county off of, you know, what comes in. Everybody has the argument, oh, they got plenty of money coming in. It's like, well, if you see what stuff's cost to do these things that these counties are doing, I mean, I can't imagine what, you know, the budgets um have increased in all the counties around us, you know, because everything, you know, the general public knows this, everything's gone up. It doesn't mean that stuff that the county spends on have has not. You know, that's what they don't understand. It's like if you're, you know, if your uh gas bills went up, well, guess what the county gas bills been? You know, it's it's not gone down. You know, so there they're I think the increase is uh probably the biggest thing that I see. It's like you, you know, you guys don't realize how expensive it is to run all this, you know. And they're they might be in here complaining about you know their tax pay going up 25 grand. And I'm not saying that I'm not you know minimizing that at all, but at the same time, it's like, you know, it's probably accurate, if not still low here. And then you don't realize what the county budget, you know, has had to absorb and expenses have gone up. So that's what I see a lot of. So so you, you know, your um your career has probably you're probably uh right at 20 years in county. A little over 20 years. A little over 20 years. Okay, okay. That's awesome. Um what does it take? Let's just say somebody was interested and they and they see or watch this or listen to this and they say, hey, that's you know, that's a pretty good career. Um we're not going to talk about, you know, what what you make or nothing like that. That is actually probably public somewhere. Um but let's just say somebody, you know, sees this on YouTube or listens to it and says, Hey, I'd be interested in that. What would what do you think they would need education-wise and to start to get to your position now?

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah, really there's no um there's no real education requirements other than you know you do have to be a high school graduate to ultimately to be an assessor. Um and and most of the time folks are obviously looking for four-year degrees and that sort of thing. But to come into the business and to start out as an appraiser, um, you really don't need uh a whole lot of of um anything outside of maybe that formal education. Um it's only job training. Uh there's a lot of classes that are offered because it's it's like I tell everyone, this is an unchosen profession. No one wakes up at, you know, at 11 years old and said, I want to be a tax assessor. So uh we we definitely uh, you know, we and we need folks. Uh we need new folks to the industry. Okay. That's interesting. Yep. And so I'm partnering right now or attempting to partner right now with uh uh Alamance Community College and do some some instructing there and try to bring some some folks into a coursework there to hopefully entice them to come over and start working uh in in our shop. Uh and a lot of counties have those same issues right now. They cannot find folks to come in and want a career in the business. And it is a good career. It's uh it's a rewarding career career in its own way. Um it's just a matter of getting folks to to kind of commit to it and um and learn and understand what the process is.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah, their process because it is a process and it's um, you know, I don't I I I look into it and I think it's more complicated. But you know, I'm sure you know on job training would probably alleviate a lot of the stuff that I don't quite understand. Some of the stuff that you've you know told me years ago, and I'm like, I have no idea what he's talking about. I'm not gonna tell Brad that, but uh you know, it's kind of over my head even. Uh been in real estate games. So um, all right. So that's interesting that they need people. That I did not know that. That was not in my research there at all. Uh I missed that for sure. What can they do like right now for your county? What is I'm sure it's probably online posted or is it yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

We we're right, I think right now in Alamance County we've got uh two open positions uh in our appraisal department. Um and so, you know, and then you look at other counties, bigger counties like a Mecklenburg or a Wake, they come constantly have openings. Um because it is a lot of times, you know, folks folks kind of fail to realize it it it it can be a thankless job because it is taxes and and so um you you don't get the the pat on the back like maybe a a an EMS or a or a police uh person would but uh but still there is very much um value no pun intended to those to those roles. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Um what do you think and and this is getting in the weeds a little bit but what do you think and you may not know this because I don't know when I looked it up either and I'm sure it's probably found online but what do you think the average, let's just say entry level, not your position, but the entry level what do you think the average salary is if somebody listens to this and is really like legitimately serious?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah I think uh in Alamance County our our starting rate is somewhere between 50 and $55,000 a year.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Okay. So I mean I think that's good. I think that's great.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah it's it's a good place to start and every county's different um you know most of your and then obviously the larger county typically is is going to be a little bit higher pay scale but that's also comes with the higher cost of living in those areas and that sort of thing. Right. So you would expect that.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Sure, sure. That's interesting. I mean I think that's you know I'll get some people to disagree but I think that's above average. Um that's above the average people that I deal with as far as you know doing property management and that kind of thing as far as their you know application and income and that kind of thing. So you know when I hear people oh I can't find a job you know and here you are saying you know that they're hiring you know for actually a pretty good career there that's pretty interesting. What do you think um as far as what you would do would you this is going to put you on the seat here hot seat what would you do different as far as your career as far as you know you've you've moved up you've got the actual tax assessor you know you're you're literally the wizard uh of taxes right now including in you know according to me anyway um what would you do different in your career?

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Um you know I really don't think anything you just yeah I think I've been I've been very blessed with uh with uh my career uh I've been even more blessed with the folks that have worked um for me but the folks that I have worked for. Um they've put me in positions and given me opportunities and so I think that you know sometimes life and and careers and things like that it's all about timing and I've been very fortunate. The timing's been good. The folks that that uh I've uh ran into along the way has certainly helped me and then the staff just like now the staff that I have um you know I'm I'm one person and while I may have some of the answers uh that the day-to-day work would not get done without all of everybody else that's good so yeah I don't have anything I would try to that's good that's good that you give your staff you know you're giving your staff you know kudos there a lot of people don't in your position so that's that's actually good and refreshing to see there.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

I think well I think I would have probably one thing I would have changed that I would have never come to help the real team y'all hear this come on y'all know he's lying right now he's lying nah um yeah that I that might have uh that might have uh halted your career where you're at the middle of the growth for sure stunned your career stunned your career problems area increased your problems nah um you know in in 0708 probably nine we were selling uh you carried a real estate license obviously broker license I'm sure after two years or whatever um what do you think let's just let's just think back there um would do you think I guess really not just HIPAA reality do you think uh carrying an active real estate license uh helped you at all as far as some people that are looking at or hearing this or watching it and saying do I need a real estate license to you know get some of the education for some of it I think it would help but what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah I think it absolutely helps um understanding you know the the concepts behind valuation the sales comparison approach and just kind of understanding that as you go through that training for your real estate license um understanding things like measuring a house uh that sounds simple and it's and it's not that you know it's it's not as easy as one would think right um so you know there's there's these little nuggets that you can pull out of that real estate training that certainly helps you um you know some of and and just knowing some of the things related to um contracts and deeds and that sort of thing what they mean the general definitions and things that stuff matters um and was super helpful coming out of the gate.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah yeah that's true um I think it's definitely at least gave me uh an understanding better for sure of most people because like I said I I've dealt with a bunch this time for this county uh Davidson County as far as valuations and they've all pretty much got um the same belief you know that they are being treated wrong and you know their values jumped up and it's like well you know like I said you you know before you look at it and you really look at the history of what their values have gone and you look at comparables um it kind of makes sense of what the counties are doing to get them uh equal. I you know I always thought you might have the same or a different opinion but I always thought for years until really this year it's like why is the tax value, you know, this is a realtor talking here, but why is the tax value so much lower you know than what it's going to sell for? It was just off, you know, very, very low. And of course you know you can't publicize well I think your tax value is low because they want their tax value low. You know they would they don't want to pay taxes on what it's actually worth. But my point was it's like I've always looked at it and it's like well why is it not accurate? You know so I think it's been off I I'm sure that you know I I'll have a lot of people in the public that that disagree with that. You know it's like well you know he thinks my value's always been low it's like it's been low for a while from from what we've seen uh even on my own stuff. You know it's like you know I buy it for this for X amount of dollars and the tax value's always been lower. You know now it's kind of kind of equaled out on some of them a little high some of them about at you know about equal about right. So I feel like it's it's actually getting it more accurate.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

The accuracy I think is what people don't realize that they're trying to get to yeah and I think it's important to keep in mind the farther the farther away you get just like now where we're at now Davidson County has just gone through revaluation. You mentioned your houses are kind of let's just say they're where they need to be and now subsequent to that the market we hope anyway will continue to go up as it typically does but we don't revalue every year. As I said it's once every four years. So you as you see those increases you get farther and farther away from that assessed value with the trip with the market value. Yeah. And then we go back to revaluation and equalize again. So um yeah that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

I think um some stuff on social media literally recently as yesterday I I've seen that uh um the majority of market you know is going plummeting. The word was plummeting and I sort of look into it and it's from a um kind of a title from Zillow. Well Zillow if you look up Zillow um you know basically the public place that you can see you know what houses they think is worth Zillow's never been to your house by the way um but it's the actual article said 300 out of 900 that they actually looked into was going to drop possibly 2%. And I was like that's not plummeting. If they think that's plummeting they didn't you know that they weren't around in 08. So um you know some of the public stuff that people see is not actually accurate. So you got to, you know, if you're if you're listening to this, watching this, you got to really, you know, kind of pay attention to you know not just one thing on social media that pops up and says you know the exact opposite of what your tax value might say or state or a realtor tells you your house is worth because not all of it. You know you can't believe everything online. So um what do you think as far as the next let's say let's say a shorter span, I was going to say 10, but let's say five years what do you think values are going to do let's just say from now until your next uh reevaluation, what do you think they're gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

I mean I you don't have a crystal ball but yeah I think that's super loaded. I I really don't know. I think that uh I and I tell people this as I'm when I I'm doing some teaching I I tell them this if you had asked me when COVID when the onset of COVID a few years back what the real estate market was going to do, I would have said it's gonna it's gonna tank. And and we both know that that was completely opposite. And so but but at the time we you know you just couldn't tell so I think that that's the that's the takeaway is we just don't know I think as as you know uh as things change in our overall economy um you know that that'll be the test. But right now I would I'd be reluctant to say either way.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

So you don't want to put online everywhere what it's exactly going to do. Come on now. Absolutely not uh neither will help a reality by the way we were trying to get him to you know say something out of the way there so we could get him but we can't we can't um you know that's kind of one of my biggest questions that I get asked you know and it's like I always like to ask that question because I say the exact same thing. I'm like there's no way I can tell you know in three to six years, seven years what your property's going to be worth. Do I think it's gonna go up like it did 21, 22, 23? No, I do not so that's kind of you know that's that's the realistic um answer usually I've seen a couple we've had um here in this office we've had a few not to appraise so when you start getting appraisals that don't come in then you're kind of like you know if you if you are in the business you know like we were in 08 and you start seeing appraisals in 2026 that don't come in you're like whoa you know like hold up you know let's let's you know back up and see what's going on here but and when I say don't coming in that you know you look at the appraisals and yeah some of them are a little come you know they're a little bit probably low um as far as what they should have come in. But at the same time I'm actually started um this year to kind of strong arm a little bit nicely to get pre-listings appraised. So that's something that I've started with um you know got a license appraiser like I'll tell a client here's my number here's what I think your property is is worth if you don't like that number uh I would love to get it appraised. This is what it's going to cost you roughly and then we agree and get it appraised and it comes in almost on the penny. So and that helps with listing um you know listing prices it definitely helps with you know a buyer coming in when I've got one listed and I've got a a written appraisal you know that I know the value it does help. What doesn't help is it is an opinion. So you know you might get it appraised and you got a license appraisal you know sitting on the counter and the next buyer that comes in and makes an offer their appraiser from their bank might be different. So that's I want everybody to realize too just because you have it appraised not I'm not discounting getting it appraised but um doesn't mean that that's going to be the appraisal that the lender uses. Usually it's going to not gonna be the appraisal that's going to be used. It's got to be from their appraisal you know from their appraiser um even if I have one in writing they're not going to use it most times. FHA you can kind of argue and maybe get one that's you know if it's not six months old but so keep that in mind um if you've got property that you really want an accurate value for um and we're talking you know tax value today and tax assessing and and I do know that you do a whole lot of talking and speeches and where's the last let's just say three or four to kind of get an idea of the range of places and people that you talk to who where do you go?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah so we spend especially reevaluation stuff we spend a lot of time doing public outreach. I spoke um twice two nights this week at at our public libraries in Alamance County trying to get the word out I do uh speak also at a lot of our conferences and things to other tax professionals. Um once again as the chair of the legislative committee for North Carolina I will uh go out and talk to folks about the pending legislation sets out there things that that we're having to kind of wrestle with internally uh with with those pieces of legislation and that sort of thing. And then I also do some instruction. I teach uh I teach uh for the International Association uh and teach across the the country uh usually about four or five times a year um to to different folks in different states about property tax because assessment and and as far as the uh kind of the the nuts and bolts of it it's the same no matter where you go. Right. So I'm able to teach those classes to folks across the country which is nice. Get out of the office for a little bit and and still uh still serving a purpose hopefully somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

No that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Like I told you guys tax wizard is this guy right here but I'm 100% the most knowledgeable that I know of for sure without a shadow.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

And I guess we'll come up to a closing here shortly but what what do you think um countywise what what do you think that they could do uh and you're doing it don't get me wrong you're you know you're speeching you're you're doing speeches you're speaking out you're doing training what do you think the county could do best case scenario to get uh public awareness uh higher from tax values yeah it's really hard you know we we have had so many I have done so many public speaking engagements and when you do those public speaking engagements you don't get the reception that you would think uh folks don't come out to talk about it preemptively right um but I do think that it's important that everyone understands and and so just trying to continue to do what we do as far as going out doing speeches getting stuff online social media that sort of thing and I think it's also important that for the general public to get involved and engaged in the process. And that doesn't necessarily folks immediately think that's a tax appeal. That's not necessarily the case it can also be as simple as going online looking at your property record before a revaluation ever occurs and ensure that that house is three bedrooms two baths that you you know it is your house is a brick in nature whatever um just to make sure that the property record is accurate because inevitably we are doing mass appraisal uh in our offices whether it's Davidson County Alamance County or Mecklenburg County they're all the same and and in doing that there is no way zero way that all assessments in that county will be exactly accurate so that's what the appeals process is there for but the the public can certainly help and assist by going online and checking their property record. And and once again most well all offices across the state that I know of if you give them a call even if you're struggling to look that up online they will walk you through that just verify it.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Because I think most most information they can maybe you know 10 10 or 12 clicks can get into their property after you know as far as most of the counties around us there's a few that are a little harder to get into but I think Alamance's is fine as far as you know fairly easy um to find information on. And of course you know here at HEPA Reality if if you uh either county uh really any surrounding counties if you have issues and you you know you got questions of course you know reach out to us we you know we've got we don't have the knowledge of this guy but we've got enough knowledge um to point you in the right direction pull you some tax cards pull you some sales come you know sold comparables and really get you some information of what your actual value is we're not gonna sugarcoat it you know we're not gonna tell you that it's worth you know $100,000 less if you're trying to do an appeal. We're gonna give you the right numbers um because there is no skewing it you know if you run six month sales they are what they are so uh we can we've definitely I've done probably 22 or 23 um different clients you know to try to do at least look at the appeal process a few did go through the appeal process and like I said already got answers so that's that's one thing. What are your thoughts on as far as the real estate industry and a whole you know agents we're talking licensed people working together with appraisers um and you know I I know that that's kind of a really wide question but I see a lot of kind of issues with agents having the a different information. They have got a different opinion like I said it's it's an opinionated appraiser anyway appraisal anyway so what do you think the right way um getting a true value let's just say general public walks up and says I want to get a value on this property um do you think in in 2026 it's still probably the answer is getting an appraise you know like a license appraisal I think if you I think if you want the you know uh something that will hold up as far as you know across the board I think uh having a competent uh fee appraisal done is always going to be the best answer.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

That's the best answer. Most folks are trained for it. I you know I do think that that real estate agents uh especially you know maybe some of the newer real estate agents or something like that it might be a little different. But for somebody like yourself you've been doing this for a long time now and and you said a big point a minute ago is that when people come to you you're giving them the honest answer. I think that's the biggest thing. Some folks in in the industry unfortunately to try to maybe garner some business or something like that will skew those results for folks. But you give folks the the the realistic answer and still you know are still filing appeals based on those real real answers right um it you know but it's fair that way and I think that that way they they're not set up to go into the tax office potentially with an appeal in hand that's not really it's that's not going to pass the test.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

They don't have accurate accurate information. That's right. I think that's important. You know that's what I see is you know they they come to my office with a few things that uh are inaccurate and it's like you know you can't really do uh you can't do an appeal by the way um if you've got completely let's just say two three years they're not just going to lower your tax value by the way uh if you've got inaccurate information so definitely you got to go to them with the right stuff the right accurate you know accurate comparables and we're talking what do y'all usually let's let's let's get that question real quick um you know an appraiser and a realtor usually pulls from the same bucket of uh sole comparables and I'm talking six months six months back we try two three miles you know if it's real maybe be you know maybe going out more but what do you what is your guidelines as a tax assessor of what really should be a sole comparable?

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah and and so taxes are a little bit different in the sense that we still are pulling those comparable properties um and and we're looking at those same parameters six months maybe up to a year uh in certain cases where we don't have enough data um and can go beyond that like you said in 0809 we're trying to find qualified transactions that are occurring so willing buyer willing seller we all know that definition and so uh that's what we're looking for to set our rates within our system once again we're utilizing or performing mass appraisal and so subsequent to bringing in all that sales data into our system uh we're then able to look at statistical data across all the different neighborhoods throughout a county to make sure that the valuations are where they should be because we are doing such a large scale. So um there's some statistical measures that we use uh certain things like our sales ratio uh our coefficient of dispersion our price related differential all mean nothing to the general public but in our office in our world they all have uh very much meaning that we utilize to make sure that our numbers are accurate.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

That's yeah that's important. That's good to hear you know as far as how they I don't think nobody in the public really quite understands how you guys you know actually find the value. So that's good to hear. I mean that's that's good for public knowledge for sure. You know we're pulling in other words I don't want to be pulling that's good for me to hear too I don't want to be pulling different information you know and sending somebody along their way and y'all be pulling it from a different you know uh variations of value. So that's that's very interesting and very good to hear. All right well if you've got anything for us in the HIPAA Realty land let it you know you ask any question you've got but uh I think we've asked the tax wizard enough questions here and um we will close this one out episode one and we appreciate you coming today and appreciate you taking your time out of your busy schedule and uh hope to have you back. Thanks for having Nate appreciate it. You got it. Thank you sir y'all have a great day see you later