Episode 8: My Mother's Birth Story

I'm in Perth at the moment visiting my family, and I thought it would be a good opportunity to sit down with my mum and talk to her about her birth story, so how I was born.

In the lead up to my son's birth late last year, my parents came over from Perth, and I remember asking my mum about her birth story. I found it a really empowering thing to listen to, and it gave me a lot of strength going into my own birth, because she went through something that was really hard and got through it. And I thought, that's in me. That birth story is in me.

Her mum had five kids, and my mum will tell you more about it, but she got through some really hard things as well. So that was a real sense of strength for me going into my own birth. And I thought, what a cool thing for women to talk to their mums about how they were born.

So I thought let's record my mum's birth story, and how I was born, and put it out there.

SHOW NOTES

• What my mum remembers about her own birth, and what she was told growing up
• The long road to falling pregnant with me, and the blood tracking that finally got us there
• Finding out at nine weeks there were two heartbeats, and what happened at the sixteen week scan
• A pregnancy with no internet, just thick library books, and not really knowing what was going to happen to her body
• What she didn't want, more than anything, going into labour
• Waters breaking at a wedding, in stockings, with no panic at all
• A long induced labour, and the moment she was told it was caesarean or epidural
• Meeting me for the first time, and the eye contact she still remembers
• Going up to the ward the next day in her grandmother's pearls to talk to the women who were about to give birth

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the Women Who Guided Me podcast. I've met some unbelievable women along the way, and I can't let them go. I don't want to let them go. Like, I want to keep talking to them and I want to put their voices out there. And that is something that's really beautiful about the journey is you actually get to grow your village of wise women before the babies here. And I think I think that's a really nice experience. So I'm in Perth at the moment visiting my family, and I thought it would be a good opportunity to sit down with my mum and talk to her about her birth story. So how I was born. And in the lead up to my son's birth late last year, my parents came over from Perth and I remember asking my mum about her birth story. And I found it a really empowering thing to listen to, and gave me a lot of strength going into my own birth because she went through something that was really hard and got through it. And I thought, oh, that's in me. That birth story is in me. And her mum had a really she had five, five kids, and uh my mum will tell you more about it, but she got through some really hard things as well. So that was a real sense of strength for me going into my own birth. And I thought, what a cool thing for women to talk to their mums about how they were born. Um, so let's let's record my mum's birth story and put it out there. So let's kick it off. Hi, love. Welcome, welcome to this show.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

I know I'm very excited. As soon as you asked me, I thought, I can't wait to talk about my birth story with you.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, it's um so you have you have three daughters, but we're just gonna focus on me. Of course, because we we haven't got consent from the once I start, I don't stop.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So if you start talking about that, the girls I'll I'll pull you back. But before we dive into the the story, what do you know and what do you remember about being told of your own birth and how you were born? Okay, so I was the youngest of five.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yep. Um, and my parents, they were migrants, so they didn't have a lot of family members here to support. In those days there was no phone and no car. So on the fifth birth, my mum was in bed during the night and she felt a pain of such. Um she had my brother there uh lying next to her and my dad on the other side. And it was very casual how my mum just told me it. Yeah. Um, but she said she just felt this little tinge in her stomach and everything, and she thought, oh, maybe the baby's coming. And as she got off the bed, she realised that it definitely was coming, and she hopped back into bed. And the first thing she said, as a mother would do, yeah, she said to my dad, quick, take the Peter out, my brother out to the bed so that that he wouldn't witness anything awful. Yeah. And uh when dad came back, I was between my mum's legs. I slithered out. Yeah. And I said to Mum, weren't you frightened? And she said, No, because she cried straight away. And then um dad helped mum put the baby on her chest, and then he ran across the road to the Stevensons and they had a phone and um rang the doctor and uh he said, I'll c I'll come out and came out and that was that.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Didn't I remember you telling me that um the doctor was kind of cross at them?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Was because they thought that my parents deliberately had the last birth at home because they couldn't afford the hospital fees. Okay or couldn't afford to really take that so that was a bit upsetting, and as a result of that, he was a little bit crossed at my father and made him very the placenta in the garden. Oh, okay, yeah, he didn't like that. Yeah, he he was a bit squirmish about that. But you know, typical uh larger family, you just sort of got on with it in that that generation. You didn't question things too much.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

So it was it was it was nice for my mum. She was a very relaxed woman with her children. Um, so it was came on to me the wa same as my mum's attitude that I felt as well during my pregnancies.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah. So can you remember when you first heard about that story? I was a bit older. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Oh my gosh, did I ask every question? This is when you were pregnant? Uh yes, yes, for my mum. But like that generation, they sort of semi-forget it or they don't attach any drama to anything like that. It was like, oh, everyone, you know, it was quite common that that could happen, that you gave birth at home. Yeah, yeah. Um mum loved being pregnant and she loved raising children. Um, and that's what she did the best. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that was a generational thing as well. Yeah. Um, but I was sort of quite felt quite special that I was born at home. And then I survived that. You know, there was no drama. It was like, you know, just lying there between my mum's legs and you know, and I asked things to her, but did you have your nighty on? You know, did it get caught in the nighty and things like that? Not nothing like that. It was just simple.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

So you felt a sense of like pride in how you were born and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, absolutely. Made you feel good. And I had easy time really, because I had my older brothers and sisters uh playing and looking after me straight from birth. So I had it a little bit easier in that way that I was never left alone and a lot of attention. So it was easier for mum to five, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

So then moving on to your first pregnancy, how did you feel when you were pregnant with me?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Well, I might just backtrack a little bit because it took a bit to fall pregnant with you, yeah. So um I was classified as a bit of an older pregnancy. I was 31 when I was had you, and I started trying about 20 when I was 29. And um but my specialist he had to wait 12 months, and it was all to do with um doing your temperature and your mucus check and writing it down in a diary. Well, it wasn't me because I kept forgetting, or you can't have tea or coffee at a certain time because it affects your temperature. So there's all these things. You can only imagine what my chart was like. It was not not very precise, even though I wanted it to be. I found that challenging to do, to remember to do it and everything, and checking your mucus and all that was quite hard to do. So after doing that for a year, he decided to do a blood tracking and found out that I had a very small window of ovulation, just a very small window. Yeah, okay. Um, so it doesn't matter when I had tried naturally, I might have missed that because it could have been, you know, during the day and or other times of the day that you you your high ovulation's there. Yeah. So through black blood tracking, I was able to do that. When I saw my specialist, um, he thought that he might do a a uh cleansing of the uterus um to to clean anything out or anything because I was still struggling to fall pregnant. And a result of that, uh within two cycles I was pregnant with twins, um, because it stimulates your ovaries, cleans your uterus out, cleans your flo flopin tubes. I don't know if they do that now, but that's what he did then. Yeah. So there was like a a cleansing of all that to to help the process. Yeah. And yeah, so when we had our first checkup of um pregnancy, there was two heartbeats.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yeah. Yeah. I actually remember um dad telling me about this. Um and in the like a panic of like hearing, oh, there's two heartbeats, he's like, our baby has two hearts. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, it was Yeah, it's because that's what can happen. You just can't believe it that you could that you could have uh that happening. And it was in two individual sacks, and I think that was at nine weeks that we had that checkup. Um and there was excitement but trepidation a little bit as well. Um and then when we went for our 16 checkup, one one continued, and that was Paris. Yeah. And the other one uh we called Chanel. And um you didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

No, no, we didn't know the thing. So okay, so you you you're about like 16 weeks pregnant with singleton now. Yes. And then did you have much nausea or no?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I was really fortunate. I all my pregnancies, I had a strong pregnancies, had strong heartbeats of my children. Um, never had nauseas, never, never felt anything, you know, like never I was really, really fortunate.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

I remember you telling me like the culture back in the day was women weren't to lift like lift a finger through. They had to just be immobile.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

So I wasn't we didn't have an automatic garage door. So I I would get in the car and have to wait for my husband to open up the garage door to to reverse out because he to reaching up, they said that wasn't good to stretch up. That's what they I was informed by other people maybe, um, just what you hear. And you have to remember that generation, we didn't have the internet. We only had books. And to get those books you have to um go to a shop or the library, there was no um book delivery. And the books were very thick and heavy books to read. There was no sort of s lighter book. So you're lying in bed, you're tired, and you're looking at these pictures and or trying to understand it, and it didn't really give you a sense of what was going to happen. Um and you didn't really get that through um the gynecologist or any midwives either. They didn't tell you what's going on with your body. No, no. I I didn't know a l much about my body. Remember also, um, we came from an area that you didn't talk about things like that um and wasn't really discussed. Um I remember when I got my period, I was about 15, and I still remember that. And um I came out to my mum in the bedroom who who was open-minded and everything, all rushing off to school. And I said, Oh mum, I've got blood on my pants. And she said, Oh, he well, you know where the pads are, put it on, come on, off we go. I thought, Oh, that was her. Yeah. And I remember thinking later, the amount of attention I gave my three daughters about periods and tampons and your body and everything like that. It was like, it was just so what would you expect for me to ask, you know, going through my first pregnancy, you know? It was a bit like that. Yeah. Considering what we have available now with all our questions and Yeah. And we're also Paris, we're in a generation that we respond we didn't question authority. So whatever um was told through your teaching, teachers, your parents, um uh the doctor, you you you didn't ask any questions. You didn't probe or at least I didn't. You said, Oh, well that's what they say to do, and that's what we did.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah.

unknown 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

And then you didn't have the resources besides from these big thick textbooks to go and fact check something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah. And it was a lot of here saying gossip. I was quite old compared to my friends having children. Most of them had them between 20 and say 27. I was classified as quite old in my friendship.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yeah, which is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I know. I know, I know. And I felt old too, in in the way, because everybody else. So I looked what everybody else was doing and saying and learned things from them. And I can tell you what I didn't want during childbirth. I can tell you, but I never really knew what I wanted through childbirth.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

But I I knew what I didn't want. From women's hearing women's stories. Yeah, like, okay, that's not for me. Yes. Very much so. Like can you give an example of that?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Like of what something that you didn't want. Well, one of the things I was very particular, I did uh they did like to give women epidurals to help them with the pain, and they like to give them the the laughing gas, they called it, um, uh to help with them. And I didn't want anything of that. I I wanted as natural as I could possibly um could be. And um the fear of having an epidural outrayed anything. The fear of having a needle inserted, that's how we viewed it, you know, inserted into your spine. That was whoa, you know, I wouldn't want that.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

And it's interesting because as we'll hear, that fear of the epidural you you went through a lot as a result. But we'll th we'll we'll keep tracking along with the pregnancy because we'll wait to the birth parts talk about that. So do you think you're ready to start talking about when the first signs of labour hit with me? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

So we I worked right up till you were born, so that was the first mistake, if you want to call it a mistake, because you came early. So I thought I had four weeks up my sleeve, but in actual fact you came two weeks early. And so I had two weeks at home before the birth. So leading up to that, I was really healthy. Um, I didn't have any um Braxton Hicks or any sort of pain like that. Yeah. Um I was uncomfortable, but I still felt good. That's why I worked right up to towards the end. My job was sitting down, so it wasn't like anything too strenuous. Um, I loved being pregnant. I r I can even feel that feeling now. I loved that's beautiful. Yeah, and um I remember driving to work and um I'd talk to you all the time, you know, sing you songs and talk to you because we didn't have CDs in our car. You had the radio, but you know, and I remember all those feelings. And so when you did come two weeks earlier, I wasn't ready to give you up. I yeah. That was hard because I don't know if you felt like that, Paris, but I had you to myself, and as soon as you you were born, I had to share you with everybody. Yeah and I I f I didn't want to let that bit go yet. And then stop when you have other children, you never have that experience again. If you have one more than one child, you never have that unique feeling of having that baby to yourself all by yourself before you give birth. Does that make sense? It makes total sense.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, I've never heard you say it like that. It's really beautiful actually.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Because I felt I because you can't sleep very much at night at times, you're tossing and turning and thing, and your dreams in your mind about what what your baby's gonna be like and how it's gonna be a sense of excitement, so you can't sleep and you you dream and things, and I loved that. I loved that. I loved all of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yeah. Ellen and I still talk about how we get phantom kicks. Oh, okay. Like you you feel like sometimes you feel like they're still inside of you. Yes, yes, yeah, that's you're right, it's such a precious time.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

So I because uh so I never really went full term with you where some pregnancy do and they can't wait to have their baby because they're exhausted and it's pushing on them and they're uncomfortable or some things like that. I never got to that stage. Yeah. Actually, I don't think I got to that stage with any of my pregnancies. They all sort of came right on time a little bit earlier.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

You weren't feeling like get this baby up.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

No, no, no, I loved it. And then And I like the attention too, because everyone would ask you how you're going, and you look great. Wow, you're first at 31. Wow, we're all great. So you like the attention. Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, and if you're not having the nausea and things like that, it can be a really nice time as well. See, all right, so tell us a story about how Labour started.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

So on the particular day um that I was out at the wedding, I think I left home at 11 o'clock in the morning, got ready, picked my in-laws up. It was a big, big family wedding. Yeah, I loved getting dressed up. I felt great. Everyone was coming out just saying, Oh, he looked wonderful. That's a nice outfit. I got up specially made for the wedding. I loved all of that feeling for a moment. Then I forgot I was even pregnant. I felt so good and everything. Um, it was a big day, had stockings on. I can't believe I wore stockings to the wedding. I remember all around the crutch area and everything. It was hot and everything. I'm getting to why getting too eye. End of the wedding, it was April wedding and actually and get to the car park, waving goodbye to the bride and groom, been on my feet all day, and I felt some moisture. And I thought, oh my God, what's this? So go to the toilet. I never knew. I thought I was losing control, you know, of of my bladder or I was sweating too much. I knew, and it just wouldn't stop. And I thought, I think I've I think my waters are broken, had no pain, no nothing like that. Came back, stood next to my husband in the car park, could feel it amongst my stockings and my knickers and whatnot. And I said, I think my waters are broken. And I just didn't have any sense of urgency or panic or anything. I think that's what I get from my mum. And we hopped in the car and could just feel it slowly tricking trickling from me into my knickers and on the tail of the seat and drove home. And when we got there, um my husband rang the hospital and they said, put a pad there to see if if there was any blood or anything major there. And that was about half past one in the morning by then. So I hopped in bed and just laid awake all night. Um then we got up about six o'clock in the morning and they said, Look, come in. You're you you've been, you know, it's your waters are broken, you must come in. By that time I started getting a few intra contractions, gave me to a room, put a monitor on my stomach for the heartbeat. And I thought, oh, this is great. I was really relaxed and everything, and the pain started really kicking in and everything. They go, Oh, this is good, this is good. And it was like about say one o'clock. So I'd been awake all night and um she just told me it was only three centimetres dilated. And you'd been at the wedding all day. All day, all day. Yeah. Oh, I can't believe I did that. Yeah. Uh she's three centimetres dilated. I thought I was having the baby. You know, I had no idea of pain. I'd never had period pain in my life.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

So this pain that I had, I thought, wow. And they said, Oh, look, you're you're pretty tired. I I I I think we need to get you on a drip. It'll speed things up. So then we went into a birthing room, which I'd never seen before. So we didn't have any idea what was involved. The lights were really, really bright. And so they they dimmed that down. Um, my husband had to come in back in at lunchtime, and um, they said it's a long process with a drip because you have to go into your labour quite slowly. Um, and so that was very, very long. And I didn't really see. I tried to get off the bed. They encouraged me to have a shower. I didn't couldn't stand that. I loved being on the bed. Didn't like the shower. Didn't like the shower, didn't want to walk around, didn't make any sound. I just wanted to stay close to the bed. I felt secure on the bed. Um, that made me feel good. Anyway, they checked again and I was about seven centimetres dilated, and they said, Oh, you'll have to have a cesarean or an epidural and pull we can't let you keep going. And that was enough to really kick me in to say, Well, I'm not having any of those. That was my greatest fear. And I also remember um that my uh gynecologist he said, you know, this is a positive fear, uh pain. Yeah, it's a positive one. It's you know, you were pushing out life, you know, and your body's doing what it should be doing. And I don't just simple things of like that he said to me, yeah. Um, gave me the encouragement to um not feel that I could quickly go to a Caesar or a epidural, no. And that sort of went on for a little bit longer. What did you say to them when they they said so they said cesarean or epidural? They were keeping keen on the epidural they were. What did you say to them? Yeah, that the the midwives were keen on the epidural more than the obstetrician. He doesn't come to write back and comes back and forward. And can I add something in there that the my obstetrician, I had a wonderful relationship with him. He was he didn't take many uh pregnancies on during the month. He specialised in just a low number of women attending to, so he was always available for his small group of women and he was known for that. And he had a respectful fear amongst the nurses. So if you were Tim Jeffery's patient, you sort of they did the right thing. You know, they were frightened if they didn't have the right something went wrong or they didn't didn't listen to me. So they had a respectful fear of him, which gave me comf comfort. Um and he was just a beautiful man anyway. He was um he delivered all my babies. He was very he made me feel really secure and confident in my abilities. So I think we've got about seven centimetres and it was really ramping up. They kept kept turning the machine up a little bit, and I was still glued to the bed. So you did no, you said no to this is a no ear. No to this is a no epidural. And I just want to ha try try and get it to to tend I hadn't even given birth yet, you know, to be fully dilated. Yeah. Try and get it to that. And that is challenging when it's induced. I don't know if you know anybody who had it induced, because like a false contraction, there's no break in between. Yeah. So it's it's like a traction upon a contraction. So there's no lull. And they're really pushing for the epidural. And a lot of my friends had it as well. Yeah. And so it was a natural sort of way that they gave birth in those days through pa the full pain relief. But I was frightened from for that. That was my fear more than the natural birth. So when it got to seven centimetres and they said that, I just sitting Increase it, just turn it off and increase it, you know, because I didn't want anything like that. And then the next thing they do said, Right, okay, great. And they shoved the the gas onto my face without really explaining anything. Didn't know what that was. It just went onto my face with a-stream to it at all. No, I didn't even know or anything. And um uh took about two sks of it and it just changed my my feelings, my body, everything. And I said, No, that's not feeling good for me, and they took it off. Some people suck on the gas and it helps their pain, but it didn't I I didn't like it at all. Um it did made me feel sick and actually. Yeah, I've heard so. And so when within the do that, I knew then I was in a stage that if I don't get my act together and get this baby in the birth canal, I hadn't even given birth yet, that they might really encourage me to have the epidurial and do you know things that I may be sure I'm not sure if I wanted to. And we mean but I didn't have any um they didn't ask me for a birth plan going in. There was no birth plan in those days. So you basically had no idea. No, you didn't, because we were accepting of things like um what the doctor said, you know, said before, you know. Um we didn't question anybody else's authority or what we were going to do. And even when they did the internal examination, they never said what they were going to do. And sometimes, you know, you're lying there in pain and you you don't have a a break and they're uh examining you internally. And that's also looking back now, um, that should have been a bit more gentle.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Oh yes. Yeah, there's a huge issue around consent and vaginal examinations like they're they're incredibly painful or they can be, they were saying well or also intrusive because your body is extremely on high alert, and then someone touches you in an area that's very uh protective because you're just about to give birth, that it can be a little bit upsetting.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

But in sort of we pushed through all of that, and then the next minute it just seemed like next minute they said uh you were crowning. Yeah. Uh they put a mirror there without my consent and told me to sit up and look at it, and got the shock of my life. I I never seen a vagina like that.

unknown 24:06

No, I hadn't.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, you're not looking at you know birth footage like. No, I never saw a birth footage.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

I just saw some, you know, black and white photos in a book, and I just closed it up and went to sleep. Yeah. At night time when pre pre uh pre pre-birth. And I said, Oh, I'll take that away. You know, that didn't that was nothing. I didn't want to know what was going down there. I just wanted you to come out. And you came out very easily. Um, I think about four pushes. By that time I'd done my 10 centimetres. I didn't want an epidural, I didn't want that laughing gas. They kept saying, you know, it's loud now by this time it's half past five on a um Sunday afternoon. I'd been up all day, all night, all day the next day, and I was getting very tired and I was shaking. I started shaking. Um, they said, Yes, you you really have to get this baby out, and that was the drive. And Jim, my my gynecologist remind me to how to breathe, because you forget about all those things. Yeah, how to breathe. We did do a little bit of a breathing course before we went there, but again, that was only very What was Dad doing in all of this? He was by my side and he was I I was holding his arm in his hand the whole time and he was putting he was resting like I would cuddle into his h face and head a bit, you know, like pull in, cuddle in, push in, having that body contact at the top of the bed. I didn't want him to go down. We didn't want anything to do with with at the other end of the bed. It was it was too confronting, yeah. You know. So he was there, but when I did, when they said your head had crowned and then it crowns, I didn't even know that how it goes back and forward in. And Tim said, Right, we need one big push, and that's when I I got hold of my husband and sat up. And the only words my gynecologist said, pretend you're pushing through your bottom and and try and have that down push. And I grabbed onto Alan and I really held him. He said, I think I nearly broke his hand holding onto him so tight. Um and you came out just simply like that. Um I just seemed I'm gonna cry. That when you came out, you gave me eye contact, and she just came out and your little squirreled up face because you were a little bit squashed in the birth canal, and it was just picked it up to me and we looked at each other and it was like, oh my gosh, you know, like, oh hi, how are you going, Tudor? It was just you weren't crying, you're wide eyed, wide-eyed staring at me. And um, I the only request I had made before that as soon as you were born, I want you to go straight to my chest, my nipple. Um I I think I read somewhere that's a good thing to do. And like a little miracle, you just got there and you just cuddled onto my nipple, and it was just as beautiful and um simple as that. And you came out very easily.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

And did the pain just go away straight away?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Y Yes. Um obviously you have to push your placenter out, and that was no problems or anything like that. I had no tearing, uh nothing, no um uh grazing. Um four weeks out before giving you. Um I I did um do some massaging of my perineum at the bottom of that that my doctor had suggested, but that was all, nothing really. Um I was I felt really calm during my birth. I felt really in control, felt calm and I just loved, you know, having that experience.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah. And we were just really lucky that I was a healthy pregnancy and I didn't carry much fear into it. Um and that I wanted the challenge of giving birth as as best as I could in those days. I have to say, to finish telling you this beautiful story, I was in such a high from giving birth to you and in such a different world that the next day when they came in and they saw me, and I'd got my grandmother's pearls on because I gave birth with them, and I I gave you my grandmother's pearls, and I had my full makeup on, and I had my curling one with me, and they came in, and in those days you wore your pajamas. So I had this beautiful flowing satin nightgown, and they said, Look great, would you like to come up to the auditorium and talk to all the the the mothers who are just about to give birth? You're such a good example of how you can look the next day. And so I said, Yeah, of course they would. And I remember going up there and all these big pregnant ladies looking at me and saying, So that's how you look the next day. I think, oh poor things, they would have got a false idea of what's going to happen, you know. But um, it was I was very, very blessed. And I think in some ways, you never leave that high Paris. You're on a high having family and children, and even uh, even now, my when I'm with you and your children, you're on that high of life and what can happen.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing that incredible story. I can hear my son crying, so who better? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

I can hear that too. Thanks, love.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Thank you so much for listening to the women who guided me. If you haven't already, make sure to follow the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts so you never miss an episode. You can also find us on Instagram and Facebook for updates and behind the scenes moments. For show notes and more information about today's guest, visit our website, you'll find all the details there. If today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with a woman you know who might need. And if there's something you'd like me to explore, a question you want answered, or a wise woman you think I should meet, I'd love to hear from you. You can connect with me anytime on Instagram or through our website. Until next time, thank you.