Annette's Story: She Already Has a Plan.

Annette Smith of Lip Service Beauty has been through a winery fire, a year-long insurance battle, COVID, two Canada Post strikes, a tariff war — and this week, hackers wiped out eight years of her Instagram and Facebook in a single afternoon. 

Annette is a certified aromatherapist and cosmetic formulator who left a corporate district manager career to build Lip Service Beauty from scratch — starting on Etsy, growing to 30–40 products, wholesale, and in-person markets across Niagara and beyond.

In this conversation: the 2022 winery fire and the insurance battle she had to fight alone. The playbook she’s built for surviving external chaos. What the hack actually felt like — and what she’s building instead. Why she’s not reinstating her personal accounts. And how she thinks about community over competition in a way most people talk about but don’t actually do.

We close with the question we ask every guest: what do you want to be recognized for in your community?

Find Annette at lipservicebeauty.ca and @lip.service.beauty on Instagram. 
Because your story matters. 

Transcript

0:02

You're listening to The Lowdown. I'm Cassidy Lowen. Real conversations with small business owners in Hamilton. The version they tell their best friends, not the one they post. Because your story matters. So let's get into it. Hi, and welcome back to The Lowdown. I'm your host, Cassidy, and today we have Annette, Creator of Lip Service Beauty. Welcome, Annette. Thank you so much for having me, Cassidy, and thank you so much for reaching out, wanting to have me on, given what happened last week. I really appreciate it. No, I am I'm happy to help you out, and I'm grateful that we were able to come up with the time that worked. Yeah, it worked out perfect. Perfect. So, for someone hearing your name for the very first time, who is Annette Smith? Great question. I am a cosmetic formulator and a certified aromatherapist, and I am the chief beauty officer at Lip Service Beauty. I'm a stepmom. I'm a dog mom. I'm very much into wellness. So, but wellness for me has changed over the years. Like, yes to the gym, yes to you know, sauna, yes to supplements, but I also think wellness means balance. So yes to trashy television and couch rotting for a few hours, yes to a crispy Diet Coke for McDonald's, yes to a tequila with my friends. Like I'm into the balance of it all. I also really love to cook, and gardening is a new little hobby of mine, and that's how I have a creative outlet outside of my work. And I also am very into astrology. So I am a Libra Sun, Capricorn Moon, and Aquarius Rising. And if you know anything about astrology, I feel like that really describes me quite clearly. Oh, that's awesome. That's great. I love it. I didn't know that about the gardening. That's cool. Yeah, uh it's a newer hobby. Like I'm only like a year in. So I got a click and grow garden, and so it starts all the little seeds in there, and then I transfer them over to gardens or pots around my house throughout the year, and yeah, it's fun. Okay, so you started from seed too. Yes. Amazing. And I've always grown, like, so I've always grown my own lavender, I've grown my own roses, and we actually use some of those dried botanicals in our body care as well. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, but the fruit and veg is a new, a newer. I'm not a pro. Don't ask me how to help you. I cannot. But we're gonna come back at the end of August and be like, show us what you've grown and tell us what to do next year. Yeah, I'll tell you what survived and what died. There we go. There we go. Oh, I love it. Okay, so you went from corporate district manager to making lip balm from scratch. When did you realize you'd make the full leap? Yeah, so lip balm has always been a staple in my life. I collected lip smackers as a kid. And when I was with my prior company, that's when I went through training to be a certified aromatherapist. And they talk a lot about product development in that course. So I started making lip balms and lip scrubs just as like a fun little hobby. And I gave them out to friends and family. And one night a really good friend of mine was like, yo, why don't you set up an Etsy shop and like start selling some of these? They're amazing. I'm like, okay, I guess. So I was doing that alongside while I was still working at that role, and it became very clear quite quickly that I was gonna have to choose one way or the other. And I had an incredible boss who we had some really lovely and really painful conversations about what that looks like. But I'm really happy that I was able to leave in a really beautiful way because it wasn't like a, hey, here's my two weeks no to see ya. It was I stayed on for another month. I helped to train my successor, I helped to hide hire and fill gaps that were still within our region. And I kind of feel like I left the place in a better state than when I came on, kind of thing. And that felt really good for me. That's awesome. And then you would have also got closure and to hear that you had a so it sounds like the boss that you had was supportive too. Yeah, it was really kind of amazing. But I'll also say, I don't think I really realized until I left how I was starting to slip back into some of like my own toxic habits, like the workaholism and the people pleasing and the long hours and just like totally killing myself, working way too much until I left, and I was like, oh, okay, that was getting to be a little wild again. Yeah, and and that's my history with my corporate life is that it's very toxic. I had really high demand jobs where I was traveling a lot and overseeing, you know, multiple store locations or multiple people, and so it was high pressure and long hours and just crazy, crazy. And I experienced a lot of health issues across the board because of it all. So yeah. So then using your same word balance, because often there's like that quote it's like, I didn't realize I went from working a nine to five job to working 24-7. So, how do you balance lip service beauty, keeping a good bat, like keeping that balance, really? So, really, like the whole company, Lip Service Beauty, was founded on wellness because that was part of my wellness journey when I was starting to try to better myself and better my routines and stuff like that. So, what I became very curious about was ingredients on like food packaging and beauty packaging, and that's what really spiked my interest in wanting to make beauty products. And um it's remembering that wellness was the foundation of what started this all in the first place. And I've slipped away from it a few times, like especially during the pandemic when you're pivoting every five minutes, but I always go back to hey, the roots of this are wellness. I have to put on my own oxygen mask first before I can put one on someone else. So serve myself first before I can serve others. And that's like I like beat myself over the head with it truly. Like I it's like my mantra that gets me through. And so do you set aside specific days as well that you're not gonna be working? Sometimes it's hard because obviously a lot of these events and pop-ups are always on a weekend. Uh, but when I actually do have a weekend to myself, I really love to uh instate screen-free Sundays where I don't look at my phone because I feel like that can be a rabbit hole. And I just have like a bunch of little best practices that I've built up routines with over the over the years. I tend to work out better first thing in the morning. If I leave it till the afternoon or the evening, it's not gonna happen. So I get that done and dusted first thing in the morning, and I just feel better. When I don't do these things, I can feel it. Like I feel like I just I can't do it. Yeah. Okay. And what is your when you start to feel that way, what is usually your go-to thing? Is it going into a workout? Is it getting that crispy Diet Coke? Crispy Cokes are definitely. I mean, you've seen in my stories, there's I bust one out at least once a week from McDonald's. I'll I have my Diet Coke supply at the house, obviously. So silly. I do like to get outside because I work out of my own house. I mean, it isn't a completely separate quarters. Sometimes I feel like, oh my god, like I just feel trapped. I need to get out. So I'll go for a walk, I'll take my dog, go to a coffee shop, you know, that that that's a go-to for sure. Sometimes it's a voice note to one of my besties, just letting it out. I'm a person that it just takes like five minutes for me to get it off my chest and out of my system, and then I'm great. Yeah, and then you can bounce back, come back, refresh, voice note to a friend, go for a walk. Yeah, I would say those are like my go-to's, but I mean there's lots of others too. Like if I'm feeling sore, I'll take a cahot bath or I'll sit in my sauna blanket. Like it depends on my mood, really. Go with my own. And that's the beautiful thing about self-care. Like, I know that's a phrase that's thrown around a lot, but self-care really is whatever it's gonna take to lower and regulate your nervous system. So, whatever that looks like for you, oh yeah, anything, right? Yeah, it's different for everyone. Yeah, sometimes it is just sitting and scrolling TikTok for 30 minutes and having a good laugh. Like that's okay, or looking at pets. Yeah. No, exactly. Okay, so when we come back to your business, so you started on Etsy then, correct? Yeah. Okay. And we're still there. And you're still on Etsy. Oh, that's cool. Yep. Okay, love it. And so, what did your business look like after the first year? Yeah, so I just in my head, I was like, we're just gonna make lip balms. It's gonna be like five products, we're gonna sell them online, and that's it. But then I started discovering like little pop-up markets, and I was like, well, that's fine, let's do a couple of those. And then I was like, well, now that I know how to make lip balm, I want to learn how to make lip gloss. And and it just kind of kept snowballing and snowballing into like a bigger and bigger and bigger thing. I think it was like eight or nine months into the business, and I had someone ask me about wholesale, and I was like, oh whoa, I'm not, but I was like, but do I want to? Yeah, like it's just it festered. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and how many products do you have now? I don't even know, honestly. I would say like it's hard because I have different colors and flavors of like so excluding that, probably I only have like maybe 40 products, 30 to 40, but there's various scents or flavors or colors or whatever. So there's a lot of skews. Okay, yeah, understandably. What is your new your newest product? Would that be the shampoo? Yeah, that's probably my newest formulation. That took about three years to perfect because I really wanted a sudsing shampoo, which is very hard to pull off naturally. So it took it took a lot, like a lot. Uh the conditioner was very easy. Okay, easier than I thought, yeah. And then it was tri, I guess, trial and error, trial and error. Yeah, like we don't test on any animals. We are cruelty free, but the only animals I do test on is myself. Yeah. Yeah. We love to test. Yes. And because they're all natural, you don't have to like stress. Like, there's nothing, I'm not using any wild chemicals in there or anything, so it's okay. Exactly. Yeah, which is it's great. Okay, no, we can't. I mean, I think we're gonna have a guess of what you're gonna say to this, given what you said already. But you say ingredients matter and you apply it to products, people, and decisions. Where did that philosophy come from? It's something that built up over time, and I think was part of my wellness journey because Rome wasn't built in a day. I didn't, I didn't overhaul my life all at once. It was like step by step. And I just started to recognize and realize that, like, okay, like all these little ingredients, all these little bits of your life really do tie together and are a part of like who you are and what makes you like you. And so it just tied in so beautifully with all of the ingredients that we were sourcing and using for lip service. And it's just yeah, it just kind of all naturally came together. It wasn't like planned or anything. Yeah, back to the wellness journey. That's great. Yeah, it all goes back to the world. It all goes, yeah. I'm sure we'll hear a few more times as we talk. One of your sayings is if it's not a heck yes, it's a hard no. Mm-hmm. In life and in business. Like I've said it so many times to even my own family that they're like, and I seriously, but it's true. Anytime I've ever been on the fence about something and I've flip-flopped or wavered, I've always regretted it if I said yes when I didn't really want to. And I think you wavering on it is your gut's way of seeing, like, this isn't for you. Listen, there's been a lot of times that I've regrettably said yes when I wanted to say no, but what sticks out for me is events, like pop-ups. Because nothing irritates me more than sitting there with no transactions or no people, and I just feel like I'm wasting my time and my energy or my team's time and energy. So that really bothers me. It's not even about the money, it's just about like what a time suck, what an energy suck. We could be doing something else. So now I have like a list of questions that I ask event organizers if I've never worked with them before, just to get a feel. And if I don't like their answers, then it's a nope. That's it. Yep. You know what? It's interesting that you say that because oftentimes I find when someone's asking me a question, again, whether business or personal, and I am wavering back and forth and I say yes, and then I end up regretting it, and then I almost end up having a grudge against the person. Like, and not actually, but in my head. And then by the end of it, I'm like, oh, it was the people pleaser in me that made me say yes. And as a former people pleaser, I understand that. Yeah. But anytime you find yourself groaning when you see someone's name pop up or like an email come through, like that's when you need to stop and ask yourself, like, is this a person I want to work with? Like, yeah. No, it's true. Because even a few times I've kind of learned, you know, if I do this, do this transaction, if I say yes, is it money for me? Yes, but is it worth the drainage and the mental energy? No. And those are all things we have to consider when you're saying yes to something. Like, it's not just about the money. Sometimes it's about you know, the emotional or mental things are gonna go with it. Or like, is this person extremely difficult to work with? Or, you know, do they always have like an issue, or do they want extras? And like, you know, all those things you have to consider. And it's like, is that worth your time? Is that worth your energy? No. Well, and it goes back to the wellness, right? Wellness, self-care. Because saying no is a form of self-care, it really is. It is, and I I someone told, I mean, it's probably an actual code, but someone told me the more the more you say no, the easier it gets. And I definitely find that for myself that that has helped. Saying, okay, no, I can't do it, I can't do it. It be it does become easier over time. It becomes easier over time because your tolerance for BS is minimal. Also, as you get older, your tolerance for BS gets minimal. Like I'm 44 years young, but I am, I feel a little older than most of my maker friends and like entrepreneur friends. They're they all tend to be a little younger than me. So I just I'm at a point now where it's like I've seen it all, I've heard it all, and I just like have zero tolerance. So yeah. No, that's amazing. Okay, one of the topics I wanted us to talk about today is the fire. Yeah. Are you able to tell the listeners about the fire? Yeah. So back in 2022, we were at a pop-up at a winery and it was a two-day-long event. There were about 30 other makers, uh, small businesses with us. And so, because the winery is going to be closed overnight, we left all of our stuff there, and as did everyone. And we woke up in the morning to find out that the building that we were in had burnt to the ground. So we all lost absolutely everything. It was obviously a huge shock. Lost all my stock, my iPad, my square, all the decor that I had bought for our setup. Like, and some of it was like stuff that was made by like my maker friends and like, you know, sentimental stuff. Like it was, it was really sad. Oh, that's awful. There was other people in it with me, so that was helpful. We all kind of trauma bonded and talked to each other and helped each other through it, but it was it was definitely really wild. And tell us about the insurance company. So at first, you know, they sort of make an inventory of what you lost. And for my product, their standard best practice is to refund you the cost of the product. But because I make everything myself, my time is also part of the cost of that product. And so my initial payout was a reflection of the cost of my product, and I had to kind of fight a little bit to be like, well, listen, like I make all this by hand and I have to rebuy all these supplies because now I have to remake all this. And it's hours and hours, like weeks of my time. So this isn't gonna work for me. And about a year later, I got a new agent on my file, and he's like, Okay, submit the last three months of supplier receipts like after the fire, and we'll take a look at it. And he was like, Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I got a top-up a year later. A whole year later, too. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I'm just thinking about it too. Like you're you're going and you're trying to order from the wholesaler, but because everything that just happened, you might not be even buying in the like the huge quantity that you initially would in the first place. Yeah, you're not getting, yeah, you're not getting that discount for buying bulk. Yeah. Oh my god, that is awful. Yeah. But in saying that, insurance is so important. If there's any message you take from this, please, please, please get insurance. Don't ever go do an event or a show without it because you just don't know what's gonna happen. And the other thing I learned from all of that is that I'm so grateful that my insurance broker talked to me and got a clear understanding of what my business was, because some of my friends who were insured only had liability and it didn't cover products. Oh, okay. So if I can hammer home a message to any of your listeners today, please, please, please, if you make your own product, make sure that is part of your policy because it's not always. Well, thank you for the thank you for those tips. Yeah, of course. That's helpful. Now, aside from the fire, yeah, you've been through COVID. Sure have with New Canada post those strikes and terraform. Yeah. What do those external hits feel like when they land now? Do you go into a panic or are you kind of just numb to it? Or that's a great question. I feel like I kind of always lean on like the same things. So I guess if I had to give you advice of like how to bounce back from like a setback, self-care comes top of mind because you can't pour into your business, you can't give to others, you can't sometimes even function until you like we're like little houseplants, like you have to water and feed and like you know, all the stuff. And you gotta make yourself happy first, like you know what I mean. So, self-self-care, here we are again on the wellness. Ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help. And I know it's hard. Listen, I'm saying this, and it's hard for me too, but you have to ask for help and lean on your people and lean on your support people, support pets, support podcasts, whatever that looks like for you. And also always remember that Rome was not built in a day. You're not gonna fix everything like that. You have to slowly take step by step and build back up, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I think sometimes social media makes things look like everything's so easy and everyone's got it so good because it's a highlight reel, right? But we all struggle and go through things and have setbacks and all the things. That's an another reason I try to be super transparent on social media because I think it's important to share our successes and celebrations, but it's also important to share our setbacks and things that have happened to us because it's part of who we are. Yes, it is important for sure, especially as a small business to be transparent. Yeah, I think so too. Speaking of social media, this week your Instagram got hacked. Yeah. Can you tell us what happened from the moment you realized something was wrong? Mm-hmm. So I got an email alert from Instagram and Facebook because Meta's all attached, that someone was trying to log into my account. So it says, you know, was this you? And I said, No. And so they're like, change your password, which is a standard practice. And I checked to make sure they were actually coming from security, Instagram, security, Facebook, not some random. So I was like, okay. So I go in and I change my password on both. And when I logged back into my Facebook, I noticed under my notifications that I had a oh, so and so accepted your friend request, but I don't know who this person was, and it was someone in the states. And also, whoever was trying to log in was from the states. So I tried to block that person really quick because I was like, maybe I can get ahead of this. And then five minutes later, I had been talking with one of my girlfriends on Messenger and She's like, dude, what happened to your account? Like, did it disappear? Did you want, like, did you delete your account? Like, what's going on? And I'm like, oh no. I got hacked. So my whole meta account got wiped out. My personal Instagram and Facebook, and then Lip Service Beauty's Instagram and Facebook. Gone. Oh, I'm getting shivers right now hearing you say that. It's just awful. Awful. I'm so sorry, Annette. Well, and it's just like years of pictures of like, you know, my kids, the family, and like that. And then there's also like eight years of hard work and dedication of building up 13,000 followers and you know, building and making all this content. It's just, it's crazy. It can all just be gone like that. Do you feel that you're still in shock over it? Or have you kind of had the weekend to get over it? I think the beautiful thing of all this is I'm seeing how the community is showing up for me, and they've been wonderful. Everyone's been sharing and commenting and engaging on my social media. So I'm I'm feeling the love similarly to the fire as well. I felt I really felt the love from the community after that happens, which is why it's important to build up a good community and lean on your support people. So I do see a lot of positives out of it. I've also officially decided to not reinstate my personal Instagram and Facebook, and I have to say I feel very grounded in that choice, and it's pretty freeing. I still have my TikTok, my personal TikTok. I didn't completely go off the grid yet, but it is pretty liberating. It feels really nice. And then for Lip Service Beauty, we have a new Instagram account now, and I'm not gonna reinstate Facebook. I just don't feel like Facebook is our our main demographic, and I'd rather pour all of my energy into one or two plat platforms versus like you know six, seven, eight, right? So yeah, yeah. And so do you have a lip service TikTok as well? Yes. Okay, okay, so you'll have that and you'll still have Instagram. Yes. As well, and then of course you have your website. Yes. So we have our website, we are still on Etsy, and we also are on Fair Wholesale as well. Yeah, so we have a good online presence, I feel like. Yes. I mean, watching from afar, obviously, I'm not in your spot. Of all the stories I have come across of everyone sharing your new page is incredible. So I hope we can get that back up for you. It's been well, I think. So how many days has it been now? Four. And I think I'm just over 500 followers. That's pretty amazing for a couple of days. That's incredible. Yes, that's incredible. So you'll get back up to that 13,000 sooner than later. I mean, it took eight years to build up, so I really don't have the expectation that it's gonna happen quickly. And I would so much rather have fewer followers, but followers that are really passionate about the brand and want to be here. Quality followers. Yeah, and I've always believed in that. Okay, amazing. What are some of the tips that you've received or that you now know about that you could share with our listeners to prevent hacks from having you? Tell us all. Always check the legitimacy of everything, like where emails are coming from. Don't click unknown links. So that would be a big one. Like just double triple check like where things are coming from. Like Shopify is the worst. So my website set up on Shopify. I would say like once a week, I get like some sort of spam email that's coming from like a Gmail pretending to be Shopify. So at a first glance, it looks real. But then when you look on the sender, you're like, nope. So that's a big one. Passwords should be super random. Don't ever make a password your pet's name or your street name or your mom's maiden name, like anything that can be traced back to you. These bots are getting so smart now. Like you have to make it like pickle cucumber grass, like it has to be something weird. Yeah. It really is pickle and a cucumber is kind of the same thing, but you know. It's fine, it's fine. It will it all works. Yeah, I digress. And I feel like I feel like we're moving into this movement now where, you know, 90s fashion's back, 90s music's back. And I feel like analog is making a comeback too. So I'm really thinking about how can we maximize our in-person events? I'm really thinking about our email subscriber list and how can we really like blow that up? Because what if we lose this again? What would we do? And I'm also really thinking about our online experience too. If you visit our website, I want it to feel the same way as it would feel if you met us in person. So I see more video content on there with education. I see uh us really rethinking about our packages and what it looks like when you open the box and what that feeling feels like. So all of these things are on my mind right now about growing analog. So you've what has happened is is awful with the Instagram. And instead of dwelling on it, it sounds like you have a whole new business plan now. I mean, that's why I kind of roll. Always thinking, I'm a very futuristic thinker to a fault. I never dwell on the past, and sometimes I actually have a really hard time staying present. I'm a very futuristic thinker always. Well, and that's how your brand has been able to grow and continue growing, is by thinking that way. I guess it is, it is still here, so uh oh, that's awesome. Well, thanks for sharing with us about the Instagram. I know it's still really fresh. No, and thank you. I so meta, not Instagram meta. Yeah, I mean, but now we just have Instagram, so we're like, I get it. I appreciate you so much, Cassidy, for reaching out. It was so sweet and kind, and you do a lot in the community as well. And so I just want to say a huge thank you to you because you're giving me the space and a platform to share this more. If I can help educate in any way, great. Love that. Thank you, Annette. No, I appreciate you coming on. And my heart, like my heart sunk. I think I had told you when we when we had a quick call the other day, I had about five friends message me saying, Did you see what happened? Like this is awful. And again, it's just like anyone in the small business community feels that pain for you of what happened. Like it is, it's just devastating. And uh we're like a f like one big family. And if you've ever run your own business, you know and understand like how many hats you're wearing and all the things you have to think about all the time. So you empathize so deeply with another small business when something bad happens to them. And truth be told, like I would hop in and help and do whatever I could to help someone else too. So I get it. Yeah, no, I believe it 100%. And I have many times. Someone's tent's blown over, we're gonna help you set it back up, babe. You know, if someone loses their Instagram, I'll gladly spam and sing from the rooftops about it. Like, yeah. We're all in it together, exactly. And now, what are your next markets that you have coming up? So the next big one is Hello Handmade Market. It's um run by a couple in Niagara, and every year it's at 13th Street Winery, and it's two weekends long. So I will only be there the second weekend, June 12th and 13th, but it does start this weekend. So that's my next big, big one. And then I've got a couple little pop-ups in July at some wineries, and we're also doing our very first DIY lip balm making class at Sue Ann Estate Winery. Oh, amazing! Yeah, oh that's awesome! That's coming up in July. We haven't even announced it on Instagram yet, so it'll be coming this week. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing. Oh, amazing, amazing. And what's your new Instagram handle so we can all follow you? It is at lip.service.beauty. So basically a dot in between lip service beauty. Yeah. Okay. And then for your what's your TikTok handle, so we can follow you on there. At Lip Service Beauty. Okay, perfect. That was unfortunately taken by the time I and the and then for your website. LipserviceBeauty.ca. Amazing. And I have one last question for you before we sign off, Annette. What do you want to be recognized for in our community? So you told me in advance you were gonna ask me this. So I did do a small poll with my friends because I had an idea in my mind what this answer would be, but I was curious to know if that's how other people felt. And I'm pleased to share that we were all on the same page. Oh great, great. So from a personal perspective, I like to think that I'm like a girl's girl. I have absolutely like no patience or tolerance for drama, negativity, mean girl energy. Like, I'm not about that. But from a business perspective, where I see that come into play is community over competition. And it's really something I've carried from the very beginning. And I see a lot of women and women businesses talk about this concept, but I don't actually see like a lot of execution on it. And a couple things like to share, share how that looks to me or for lip service is I think we've worked with 75 to 80 other women-led beauty brands, or like some other ones as well, over the eight years we've been in business, which is pretty incredible. It's a win-win for both parties. It's promoting both of our brands, but it's also allowing our customers to have a bigger assortment. Any chance I can, I'm celebrating and cheerleading for like all of my friends' businesses. Like, I'm all about that. But I'm also about helping out people too. And then we've done lots of collabs with local charities that make sense and really align with who we are as a brand as well. And a lot of like girl power ones. Like last year, we collected period products for some women's shelters with a group here in Niagara, and like that doesn't get more girl power than that. And like we've donated to the shoebox project before, so we really try to be thoughtful about who we're working with, even from that capacity. Anyways, I just I wasn't really surprised to see this community that we've built show up for me because I do the same for them. Amazing, amazing, Annette. Well, thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. This is a fun little chat. This has been great. This has been wonderful. I'm excited to release it. I'm excited to hear it. That's the lowdown for this week. If something in this conversation landed for you, send it to one person who needs to hear it. That's how we build this. One story at a time. I'm Kasty Loewen, and we'll see you in the next episode.