Elizabeth’s Story: Her Biggest Legacy

Elizabeth Den Hollander was six months into her career as a registered massage therapist when her mom was diagnosed with stage 3 cervical cancer. That same day, she took over the clinic. She kept it running for nine years, treating clients, building a practice, and navigating grief in the in-between, while her mom fought. A year after losing her, Elizabeth opened Painted Brick Wellness: a multidisciplinary wellness collective in downtown Hamilton, Ontario, where six independent practitioners each run their own business under one roof.

In this conversation, we get into what it looked like to hold a business together while saying goodbye to the person who built it. Elizabeth talks about the Coco framework of grief and what it means that her mom’s clients are still receiving care. We talk about the collective model, what she calls a path that was chosen, and why she built something bigger instead of carrying on alone. We close with the question we ask every guest: what do you want to be recognized for in your community?

Find the Painted Brick collective at @paintedbrickwellness and paintedbrickwellness.com. The practitioners: @rmtelizabeth, @rmtzoe, @inertia.pw, @msmith.osteo, @urbanholisitichamilton, @myocaresolutions. And Elizabeth co-runs @outdoorsypals — free community hikes and coffee around Hamilton, open to everyone.
Because your story matters.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You're listening to The Lowdown. I'm Cassidy Lowen. Real conversations with small business owners in Hamilton. The version they tell their best friend, not the one they post. Because your story matters. So let's get into it. Hey, welcome back to the Lowdown. I'm your host, Cassidy. Today we have with us Elizabeth Den Hollander, who took over her mom's massage therapy clinic the same week her mom was diagnosed with stage three cancer. She kept that clinic running for eight years. A little bit afterwards, she started painted brick wellness. So let's get into it. Elizabeth, welcome to the lowdown. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for coming on. Six months into your career, everything you thought that chapter would look like shifted in a single day. You kept that clinic running for almost a decade. And then a year after losing her, you opened something bigger. For anyone who doesn't know you yet, how would you describe yourself not just as an RMT but as a person?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

I feel like everyone would know me as someone who always says yes to things. Like I'm a very outgoing person. I play on lots of sports teams. I love going to networking events. I yeah, love my friends fiercely. And yeah, I think just very adventurous. The last, a good example would be I went to a networking event like last year, and I met this one girl named Kendra, and she was a um, she does uh documentaries, and so she posted about this documentary she was gonna be running, and it was in Tanzania for uh hiking Kilimanjaro. And I'd only met her once, but the organization that was doing the trek was like a female-led organization, and so I definitely try to live by my values, and so I it seemed like something that I'd really want to be involved with, and so I ended up signing up, and I wouldn't say that I'm like a crazy adventurer, like I'm a crazy adventurous, but like a nine-day trek is like a bit more than what I would normally do, but it just seemed like something I wanted to be involved with, and so yeah, I signed up and I did that in February, and we ended up summing, which was super cool, and yeah, it was like the hardest physical thing I've like literally ever done. But yeah, I would say definitely a yes person.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

That's awesome. And I mean, that sounds like an incredible journey as well. How many of you were there in the group?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

It was 10 of us. Okay. So there were four of us from Canada and then six from the States. So she's in Hamilton, but her documentaries have been out in the world kind of all over, and so she's met people kind of all over. And yeah, some people just joined because they um love her her documentaries and wanted to be involved in it. So yeah, it was really, it was like pretty special.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

That's a really cool experience.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, which it'll be ready, I guess, sometime this fall, which will be kind of cool to like re-relive, relive it through like, yeah, a different lens for sure. Cause yeah, it was definitely very, very hard.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Do you know what the documentary name will be yet?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

She did say it, but I can't remember. It was, it had like a it was a good title. I was like, oh, that's so good. It was something about because it's about like women in an industry that they're not normally in. So it was it was something to that regard. But yeah, I'll have to find out the the name. I think she's still like, yeah, sorting through exactly what it would be, but I think she had said something, but I forget.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

We will all be looking in the fall to listen to it and watch it. Yeah, that's awesome. Before we go anywhere, for anyone who's listening who doesn't know Painted Brick yet, can you give us the 30-second version of what it is?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, so we are a multidisciplinary wellness collective. And so what that means is that each person in the space actually pays a rent. And so we all run our own businesses within the building. So right now we have six practitioners, so six separate businesses that operate under painted brick wellness. And so painted brick wellness is more like the umbrella or like the rental space. And yeah, but we operate a little bit more than just rental. Like we kind of like, yeah, collaborate in lots of different ways. And we share clients and and yeah, I mean, we refer kind of throughout as well. And I've been in practice for this year, will be 12 years. So I do a bit of like mentoring as well. If anyone has like questions or things or yeah, that sort of thing, I I'm always like helpful in that way. But yeah, that's our space.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

That's great. I want to understand how you built that, and we will get into it, but first I want us to go back to the beginning. Can you take us back to when you first started working alongside your mom?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah. So I went to school at Georgian College in Barrie, and uh the program at Mohawk for Massage actually didn't exist yet. So I did my schooling there. I graduated in 2014, did my registering exams that summer, and then became registered as of September of 2014. So yeah, I started working with my mom. She she worked actually at a couple of spots, so three different places kind of in her career. But when I was gonna join her, she kind of she was a very powerful woman and was just, I mean, I'm an only child. So I feel like just very, I don't know, like just like would help me in every way possible. Like just everything in her being was like, how can I like make sure my kid is set up? So I remember when I was gonna start working with her, I remember I found a house because she's like, she had said she was paying rent for her space, and then I was gonna move back home to Hamilton. And so I was gonna look for a place and gonna be renting for living, as well as maybe renting for working, or because the place she was in didn't have enough treatment rooms for her and I to work. And she's like, we're gonna be paying a lot in rent. Like, this is gonna be like a good amount of rent. And so she's like, potentially we could maybe look at getting a like a house instead. Cause I, yeah, if we're paying that much in rent, maybe we could at least just pay a mortgage instead. And so I remember finding a place on Khajiji, and I remember sending it to my mom when I was in Barrie. And she's like, she's like, honestly, it looked pretty good. And so she went and checked it out. And I remember her calling me and be like, Do you think this is a good idea? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like 22. I'm like, I'm not sure, mom. Like, maybe, like, I don't know. And uh anyway, so yeah, they my parents ended up putting a down payment. 2014 was also a pretty good time to to buy. And so yeah, put down the down payment. And then yeah, I mean, I still live in this house now. Um, it's this year will be 12 years. So yeah, I mean, we've had I've had a few different lives here. So yeah, so when I first started working with her, she worked in one room on the main floor and I worked in another. And yeah, I had a roommate, and yeah, I've had so many roommates throughout the years, and yeah, it's kind of been a fun space that yeah, we've kind of evolved with over the last 12 years.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Wow. And what was the dynamic like between the two of you once you actually started working together?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Um, I mean, to be honest, when you work as a massage therapist, you're not really like working with your coworkers a ton. You're often with your clients the whole time. But I mean, I would ask my mom any questions or she'd tell me certain things about certain clients, or you know, kind of that sort of thing. But it was kind of I started when I started working with my mom, I actually worked at another clinic too on Lock Street, just because it was hard. Like my mom had built a client base for so long. And it's like it's kind of hard to give your clients away unless they're, you know, willing. Like it's like, oh, you could go with my daughter, and they're like, No, I'm okay. Yeah, we'll stick with the same person. Yeah. So I I really wasn't treating a ton of my mom's clients when it first when we first started. It's yeah, it's kind of a hard sell being like, oh, I've been an RMT for 15 years. Do you want to go with someone who's been an RMT for five days? Yeah. But um, it was good. Yeah, it was good. She definitely wanted me to also work at another clinic just to kind of see what that was like. Yeah, and to kind of see how helpful it is to actually run your own business. And she wasn't wrong. There was definitely things that working at the uh clinic showed me that I do not want to have as like a long-term job. So yeah, it was definitely helpful.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I love that she pushed you to work somewhere else as well. Because it's true, every single workplace, even if you're working for yourself, is different. And you got to see that.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Six months in, she was diagnosed. What happened for you the day that you found out?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, I mean, I feel like she maybe called me. I I can't remember perfectly, but I I remember that the next day, or it was the day of, I don't know if they maybe called her in the morning. I think they may have called her in the morning, and she was supposed to work that day because she'd been having a lot of pain for like months leading up and uh was taking like pain medication to kind of get through the day. And yeah, it was a pretty big miss on the doctor's part, to be honest. Like they were kind of fluffing her off, like, oh, it's just another kick of the can at um menopause and all of these things. But like she was in like severe pain. And so yeah, it was in it was May 15th, 2020, 2015, when she was diagnosed. And yeah, she, yeah, I think it was a call in the morning. And then I remember having to treat the clients that she was supposed to have that day. So it's kind of like I'm retiring, like in this moment, and yeah, you kind of have to like take over. And I remember that whole month just being like kind of like a blur, like trying to like navigate. And I think I would have had to have told the other clinic, like I still worked at the other clinic, so I just kind of like compressed my schedules. And so some days I'd be treating like seven, seven people, which is more than I would ever treat now. But yeah, just trying to like navigate doing both. Yeah, it was like a lot for sure. Like she just kind of had to yeah, immediately shut down with working. And then I also had to be the person to tell everyone that she was diagnosed, which was like so horrible. I actually remembered like, yeah, I mean, I would sleep on my lunches just because I was so like mentally, physically exhausted. And yeah, it was and it's tough because you're with the person for like a good amount of time. So you like tell them what's happening, and then they like it's hard because they would ask. And so they were hoping that she was gonna have a um, she had hoped that she would have a um hysterectomy. That's what like was she was maybe I could get a hysterectomy or there's something going on, but I'm not exactly sure. But then it was the diagnosis of stage three cervical cancer, and so that wasn't the option. So it was um radiation and chemo. And yeah, so it was tough. I would be getting a lot of cancer stories from a lot of people because like it's just an awkward, like it's a hard, like people have to like kind of like sit in that discomfort. And and so yeah, I remember I would I would sometimes cry. Like I got really good at crying silently. So I would like tell them the thing and they would tell me their story or they would talk about certain things and or say things that like weren't the right way to say it, but it's like it's not a time for me to tell them how to also exist. So it's a weird dynamic, but yeah, I would like cry, but like wiping my tears while they're face down. I was like, oh, that was really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Oh, Elizabeth. Yeah. I can't even imagine because you I'm just picturing you, you know, this is new information, and you're also trying to process the person that comes in for the massage, you tell them, and then you have to sit with them for an hour. Well, not sit with them, you're doing physical labor for an hour. Yeah, well, they ask these questions.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah. And it's it's interesting too, because it's like, so my cousin actually lives at my house now and she's 22. And so I was 22 when my mom was diagnosed. And so it's interesting, kind of just like even seeing what it is to be 22, because I realize how young I was. I'm like, oh, that was like a lot on a 22-year-old. I'm like, oh, right. Like that actually was very hard during that time. And and just yeah, my whole 20s, my mom was was sick. And so yeah, there's definitely something to like not just losing the person, but losing the all the time before of like the you know, the life we would have had.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, I mean, being forced to, I want to say grow up. I mean you're already an adult, but it's you are really you're pushed further than you would otherwise be doing many different things in your life. Yeah.

unknown 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah. And w did you and your mom ever have a conversation about you taking over? Or it just it was obviously. No, I think I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I think I kind of like the plan when I went to school would be that eventually I'd work with my mom. Like I had a few friends that weren't from Barrie but ended up like staying in Barry, Barrie and living. And like I always knew I'd be going back to Hamilton. So I kind of always knew I'd be working with her at some capacity for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

What did it mean to keep walking into work every single day after that?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

I think I just like it felt like that, like uh, yeah, the only option. In a in a good way, I think, in some ways. Like, but yeah, I mean, I sometimes describe it as like golden handcuffs. Like I've had this, like, I do, I I deeply love my career. But yeah, it was kind of like I remember being like, oh, I wish I could have lived in BC or I could have done this. And and yeah, it kind of felt like I was like, oh, like I have this like business now that I'm like running and I can't really just bail out on it. And yeah, I mean, I'm we all have our things that you know we're like bound to. And so yeah, it's not, it's not a bad thing to be bound to. But yeah, I definitely had some struggles with that, like wanting to live lots of different lives. But I mean, I've definitely I'm I'm grateful that I have stuck through it for for these years. And now that I, you know, I'm able to, you know, open a practice like I have now, with you know, it being like a multidisciplinary like collective. It's yeah, it feels like, oh, it was like I had a purpose for it. Like there's a reason why I was doing this for so long. Like working from home for nine years was like in lots of ways quite isolating. But I mean, I love my clients are incredible. I have like such incredible people that I have gotten to meet over the years. And I mean, I've traveled a ton in my 20s as well. So it's not like it's this like woe is me. But yeah, there still was definitely some like, uh, could have maybe done that or this, or it just kind of felt like I had a path that was chosen.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

I think it's always easy to think of these things in our head too. And it's I don't want to say like the grass is greener on the other side, but it's easy to think all these other things we could be doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

For sure. For sure. Yeah. And like I still treat some of my mom's clients like to this day. So it's like my mom treated them for like 15 years, and I've treated them for like 12. So it's like we have like 25 years of like care. And yeah, I don't know, it's it's special. It feels it's cool because they also just like know my mom. So that's like very special.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

That's very special. And I'm sure they have little anecdotes and stories too for you sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

For sure, yeah. I mean, I still have clients that are like, oh, you sound just like your mother. And it's like, yeah, it's it's like they're like family.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

When we had spoken on the phone a few weeks ago, you had mentioned the Disney movie movie Coco. Tell me what that movie means to you in the context of all of this.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, Coco is like one of my favorite movies. It's um so it's based around Mexican culture. And so in Mexican culture, there's three deaths. So the day that their heart stops, the day that they're laid to rest, and the day that their name is spoken for the last time. And so, yeah, I mean, getting to like talk about my mom is so special, and you know, that allows her to continue to live on. And yeah, I mean, I get to do that with with you know clients that know her and my family. Like, I have a quite small family. I'm an old and an only child, and so yeah, no siblings. And then my stepdad is uh my my parent, my lead parent. And so yeah, it's it's special to have more people in my circle that like know her. Cause yeah, it just like allows her to kind of continue and the legacy of of what she kind of like built, and yeah, and I'm I'm I'm her biggest legacy for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Elizabeth, you're doing incredible work.

unknown 16:19

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

And I was my next question I was gonna ask was what does it mean to you that her work is still happening? But I think you just you already answered that for us.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, I yeah, I think it's just like so special. Like it just feels cool that there's continued care. And I think the other thing that it's really neat is that I I feel like I don't have to do every part of it. Like I've been like, oh, maybe I should become an osteopath, oh, I should become an acupuncturist, ooh, I should do this. And it's like, I don't also have to be everything. So it's really cool to have a space that there's like all these other people that also have all these skills. And I've always been really good at collecting people. And my mom was always really good at collecting people. Like we, you know, at family dinners, we used to have, you know, this family friend and that family friend, and like, oh, they don't have somewhere to be on that day, or all of that. And so yeah, we've always been kind of like good collectors, and so definitely getting to like utilize my like collecting skill, yeah, to kind of create a uh wellness collective of like an osteopath, RMTs, a girl who does lymphatic facials, a girl who does myofunctional therapy, and then yeah, hopefully continue to grow into uh more wellness practices.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

That's awesome. I mean, you could have kept painted brick wellness just as your solo practice. What made you decide to not to?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

I mean, I think again, like I know that the demand for other types of care, and I I go to other people as well. Like, I don't think just one type of care can kind of provide everything for everyone. And so, yeah, I mean, I've definitely referred so many people to Osteo and explained what that is. Like a lot of people also didn't really know what it was, and so I think also being a trusted um care provider for them, they trust me. And so everyone in our space, like I also go to. So yeah, it's been so helpful, and people've had such deep success with her care and kind of everyone in our space. And so yeah, it's been really, really special. And then I also like, yeah, I can I don't feel like I have to. I used to be kind of like I would always say yes to my clients. And so now it's like, oh, there's other people available. Oh, I actually don't have to work every like I don't work Saturdays anymore, but it's like someone else does. And I'm like, oh, that's so nice that I don't have to like be there six days a week and you know, working super, super late every night. So yeah, it's it's nice to have like extra people working.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yes, you know what? And as a small business owner, I think there's a lot of weight that we carry. And from what I can hear you're saying, it's almost like that weight is shared.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah, for sure. Because I'm like, there's other people and they're so amazing too. And then it's like they also get to build up, you know, their business. And yeah, I mean, their success is like the success of the space. And I mean, that's I'm like, it's amazing. What is hard about running a collective that people on the outside don't see? I mean, there's definitely things when we go into the new space that I'm gonna kind of like it's easier when you go to a new space. I don't know if I even shared that we're getting a new space, but we are getting a new space, which is super exciting. But with that, it's gonna kind of come with even like explaining to everyone who even works there that it's a collective, because it's like when we first started, like both Eric and Michelle were brand new to practice. And so I want I wanted them to be successful, but I also like it was kind of a a hope on either end that we both that we all would work it, like it would work. So I'm grateful that they like took the opportunity and faith in me that the space and the clinic would or the collective would do well, and vice versa, that they were like, I've gone to them for care, but that you know, they would be good practitioners. But yeah, like it is a different way of operating. So I mean, when people call the clinic, like I would prefer that they call each practitioner. Like it again, it's like they're like, oh, it's the clinic. And I'm like, oh, I want it to be less of a like like a the clinic, but more of a again, a collective. So it's like you just are like, oh, I'm calling that person, my my therapist. I'm calling them versus calling the clinic because the clinic just goes straight to me, which then I have to just then give it on to the next person. And so yeah, I mean, still even in branding, we're gonna have to try to like figure that out a little bit better. Cause I yeah, I mean that when I started, I didn't really even know how to do all of that. And yeah, kind of pump, pump up their businesses a bit more. Like we all have um Google listings, but make it so that maybe on the website or in ways that they would reach out to their specific practitioners for sure. So I think, I mean, the hardest thing is that I'm like, I'm still figuring it out as I go, I guess. Like I, yeah, built it to be like a clinic, but I'm like, oh, actually, it is a clinic, but you kind of need to, I need to be more of like a collective, kind of like I mean, a very, very tiny version of um uh the cotton factory, right? Like if you're gonna go to a person in the cotton factory, you're not gonna call the cotton factory. You're gonna call that specific person that you're going to. And so kind of like that versus, you know, calling the over, overarching space. But yeah, we're still working out some of the the kinks in it for sure. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

And when an issue arises, do you have like, is there weekly meetings that happen with everyone?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Or like how do you we have a group chat? We have a group chat, honestly, that works really well. And there aren't really that many hiccups that happen. I mean, if we have any issues, like we have an online platform we worked with Jane, and we have all the same in the app or in Jane app, you can um create that everyone has the same like abilities within it. So anyone can call, anyone can change. Change anything, like anyone can kind of do anything within it, which is not typical, I think, for most clinics. Like, usually there's like parameters that some people aren't allowed to be doing, but we kind of all have access to everything. And so, I mean, if we have any issues within Jane app, it's like just call Jane, which is so helpful. Like they have like so much support because I also don't even know everything in it. I'm like, oh no, just call Jane and they do, and they can figure it out and work it out, and and then be like, oh, by the way, this is blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, perfect. So it's not like one person has to do kind of every duty, which is nice.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

That's awesome. And tell us more about your new space.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah. So we are gonna be moving around the corner to 126 Catherine Street South. So right now we're 118 Jackson Street East. So it's literally just around the corner, 250 meters away. It's double the size of our space now. So we right now have five treatment rooms, and the space has 10. So we are yeah, looking for some more people. We've actually already had a bunch of people asking, even before us saying that we are moving. It's just, I think people really want to have more autonomy. And the idea of like working with a group while still running your own business is is very appealing to a lot of people because typically when you work by your like like rent a space, you're working alone. And there's definitely a lot to gain from working within a like a collective or kind of like a clinic, but but still having that autonomy. So yeah, we've had a bunch of people looking, so that's really exciting. And then there's so there's um it's three floors. So first and second would be treatment rooms, and then there's a third floor, like loft space that I mean I'd be so eager to do like sound baths and and that sort of stuff in. So yeah, we'll see what we can do in the next little bit, but it could be a plan for the future, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Oh, Elizabeth, that's so exciting! Congratulations. Thank you so much. And also, you were a top 10 finalist at the one awards out of all of Hamilton, Halton, Brandt, and Niagara. Now, I know that you had mentioned that there were things you would you'd have focused on differently going in. What were they?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

I think like when I had did my pitch, I feel like it was really explaining like how we've been successful and that you know we're getting a bigger space and all of those things. But I think I would have maybe shared more of the struggles that we had. So we had a lot of issues actually with zoning. So we were supposed to get this building, the Catherine Street building in March, and we're not gonna get it now until mid-July. And so there's been a lot going on. So even when I was pitching for the One Awards, I was dealing with all this background stuff. And I realized at the uh One Awards breakfast, Alyssa from Darling Donuts had gone up and was speaking about how her experience went. And at the time she was actually working, she would been working from home and like wasn't really supposed to be operating her practice from home. And so I feel like I realized in that moment that it's like, oh, you could have been like in a different position of like things were more falling apart, maybe. Like, I'm like, ah, like we're maybe not getting this next space. And like when I explained it when I did the pitch, I was like, we're getting this new space, and like it was kind of felt like it was up in the air because we were having so many issues with zoning. But yeah, I think I would have, I should have maybe explained more about the struggles that we were going through. Yeah. But it's hard because it's like you feel like because you got to that high level of a grant, you know, this grant. And so it just felt like we needed to like explain that we're doing amazing and that their support would allow us to continue to be amazing and all of those things versus like help us for drowning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's okay. It was still helpful, and they gave us still some support. And so I've been utilizing that, which has been really good. Cause yeah, it's hard doing it all alone. Like I felt like I was like, oh, what have I done? Like, yeah, having to talk to like private planners and lawyers, and yeah, kind of trying to sort it all out and like the city. And yeah, I felt like I was like doing meetings all the time and like learning about zoning in ways that I never thought I would ever need to know.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

What a relief that you're finally on the other side now.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yeah, I'm so grateful that the hearing went well. Because yeah, we were supposed to have it on June 4th, but that was the day of the data center. And so that got postponed. And it just felt like there's always something that was like postponing us. And I'm like, ugh, we just need to know if we're if we're good. But yeah, thankfully we are set.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Amazing. Before we wrap up, what's one thing you want every listener to walk away with today?

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Um, I would say, I don't know, if you're if you're doing a thing, like deeply do it. Like I think I feel grateful that I I did stick to like my career as a massage therapist. And I mean, I think it's also like evolved into something different. Like as much as I still am a massage therapist, I get to be like the leader or like the owner of like this like collective. And I feel like it was like so valuable that I like held on. Cause yeah, for a long time it just felt like, oh, I'm just gonna work from home and that's gonna be kind of my world. And but I I really wanted to be a bit bigger and help more people and all of that. And so I don't know. Yeah, I think having some like grit in and holding on is is something that Hamilton is very good at. We're a very gritty city. Yeah. So I don't know. I think maybe something like that. And then also just saying yes to things. Like I feel like I just I always say yes. And it if you're there and you don't like it, you can always leave. Like, I I I feel like it, yeah, yes is always a word in my vocabulary because I'm just I don't know. I don't know how I could say no if I don't know the thing. I'm like, I have to know the thing to be able to say no to it. So I have to like attend to know that it's not right for me. So that's definitely another takeaway that I like always tell my cousin. I'm like, like it's so good to just like put yourself in all these spaces because you know, things will stick as they do. So yeah, I think probably that. Like definitely, yeah, being gritty and and saying yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

I love that. Well, and I mean it's probably through these networking events and through saying yes that led you to the people that you now hold this space with as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like posting on Instagram. Like sometimes I feel like I'm just posting it into the abyss. But yeah, I mean, our facial girl Susie found us online. And so, yeah, not only are you sometimes posting for clients, but you're also sometimes posting for people to work in your space and understand what you're offering. So yeah, no, it's been definitely very special. Where can our listeners find and support you? So we have an Instagram account, uh, Painted Brick Wellness, and then we have a website that we're gonna be updating to make it look a little bit more like a collective, which would be paintedbrickwellness.com. And then there's a book now button, and it would be Jane App slash Painted Brick Wellness. So yeah, we're kind of uh all over those faces.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Thank you, Elizabeth. And our last question: what do you want to be recognized for in your community?

SPEAKER_01 29:10

I think just being like a cheerleader for everyone. I just like I love everyone in our space. I love all small business. I'm like such a small business supporter. So I think just being everyone's cheerleader because I I I think everyone deserves it so much. And yeah, I just I love our city and I want to yeah, keep seeing it expand and bring, yeah, so many good things to all of the businesses that operate in it. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth, for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me. That's the lowdown for this week. If something in this conversation landed for you, send it to one person who needs to hear it. That's how we build this. One story at a time. I'm Kasty Lohan, and we'll see you in the next episode.