Addressing the Anti-Natal Culture in Restaurants...And The Solution

Why are restaurants popping up that are banning kids? Why does it seem like whenever you go out to a restaurant (if you do at all) kids aren't welcomed?

Yes...it's the culture. We go into several reasons why society is anti-natal, but more importantly...we talk about solutions that parents can do right this second to fix the situation.

And some of those solutions are going to touch third rail parenting issues that need to be addressed.

Join us for today's episode of Outside The System!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, public tools terrible.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Of course, public tools terrible. Is that that like what's this what's the solution? I think it goes back to that individual, very selfish state.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

And which is kind of rare because not as many people have their kids playing outside anymore.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to Outside the System. I'm your host, Fred Stafford, with my wife Aubrey.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Sponsored by anyone can homeschool. Today, and and I mentioned it to you briefly, I read an article that I thought was really interesting. And it there's a couple of like cultural implications, but it's also from uh, especially from a Christian worldview, what are some solutions to that to that problem? And the article was essentially it was saying more and more restaurants are becoming kid free. Okay, so we're seeing like a resurgence. Is it a resurgence or just like a pivot maybe?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Yeah, into kid-free dining.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Into kid-free dining. And so, you know, what I guess some of the questions are number one, culturally, why is that happening? Like, so there's there's culturally, um, why is that happening? And then what can be some of the solutions? Yeah. So culturally, my first cultural thought is we live in an anti-natal society right now. Right. Very individualistic, um, very anti anti-kid, very selfish. Yeah, you know, obviously pro-abortion, that's like the biggest cultural phenomenon that's happening right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, I think I mean there's lots of different reasons I think why people aren't having kids as much anymore. But obviously, it's a whole individual thing. So I think people think that having kids is more of a sacrifice than it is um, you know, a blessing. But like from a non-Christian point of view, it's not even, it's like I think people don't think they get enough out of having kids to worth the sacrifice for them. So it's always I think it's interesting because I don't think ever I don't think many people that don't have kids go into it. Obviously, you have some people that are like, I just don't want any kids. I think a lot of people just wait too long.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Right. And they and they kind of they think, well, I have all this time. And I think that goes back to the thing we were talking about before where people in the world now, it's like we just live in the present moment all the time. And so we don't ever think that there is like a time constraint on something. So a lot of women, I think, don't necessarily not want to have kids. It's just that they they get tricked into thinking that building a career is more important. And then the interesting part too is like, so is it gonna be easier to walk away from your career at 35?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yes, and it's not because at that point you've you've one of two things has happened. Number one, you've started to make good money, so your lifestyle has changed. Or number two, you are on the verge of making good money, and so you don't want to change because you've already invested all this education and the work in that career path.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So I think a lot of the women kind of get tricked into thinking they have all this time. And then when it comes to the time that they do want children, it just takes a lot longer for them to have children.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Um, but I think for a lot of the, if you think about like, I mean, we live in Florida where there's all the 55 and over communities where a lot of people don't actually want to have kids around. And it's interesting for us because obviously we have a lot of kids and we live in a place where there's not a lot of kids.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

There's more people in our neighborhood that are retirees. And we've noticed you kind of you either have people who love having kids around. Like our kids play out in the neighborhood, and we have some neighbors that are like, oh, I love it when your kids are outside. It reminds me of when I was young, or when they had kids. Or many people have their kids playing outside anymore. Or you have the people who literally see kids as like an everyday annoyance.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Nuisance, bothersome, loud, interrupting my television watching.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

I don't know. But we've definitely seen that because I think Florida is like sort of like a like um very saturated place of people who who are in the retirement age.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

So there it's not like a real like snapshot of like normal life, I think. No, I don't think so. So you get like a lot of, you know, a lot of um, I mean, there's like the villages, you know, those places where they really are just people that don't do not have kids around. And when you think about that, you're like, so what are you saying are so terri was so terrible about a child? Yeah. Like, and the funny part too is that we were all kids. Everyone was a kid at some point. It's so weird.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Just like everyone has two parents, everyone was a kid at some point.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Right, but so it's like basically um they they find it just annoying to have kids. So they don't like the noise, or maybe they don't like just the inconvenience of having to de having to manage that.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

I think it's I think it goes back to that individual, very selfish state that says, I've already raised my kids. It goes back to what we've talked about and a lot of other people have talked about as okay, they're 18, not my problem anymore. Right. It's over. Yeah. And I feel like that, especially with with our age and our friend group anyway, it seems like we're aware that that's actually bad for society. It's bad for our kids. It doesn't work out other than feeding what will be a very lonely end of life for a lot of these older people because we have neighbors where nobody visits them. No kids visit them. Their kids either don't want anything to do with them or they just are saying, I'm you've you dropped me when I was 18. Why am I gonna come back when you're in your 70s and have to take care of you or have to even consider you? Like, let me just stuff you in home.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

And both of us, like, you know, we have really we have great parents.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Um, but a lot of people's parents that we've heard, the parents actually don't really want to be inconvenienced to even babysit their grandkids. Yeah. Which to me is just wild when you think just goes to the anti- And not that we're just like hating on not hating on the boomers, but it does seem like there they're ten there there is right now a maybe not a tendency, but it does happen regularly that grandparents really don't want to be burdened with the responsibility. And obviously, we live in such a different time where you know where people don't live around family often. So you have people have to do a lot on their own. Yeah. And I think that goes back to, you know, people don't. I think another reason you're talking about like why are people so anti-child, because m not everyone's anti-child, but you know what I mean. Um people don't grow up around kids.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

So we so if you look at our just our family, so both of our parents come from at least four kids in the family. That's the least.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Right? And so they grew up around kids more. And then, but both of our parents had only two kids. And so with if with us, if I hadn't had a lot of cousins, I wouldn't have had kids around. But you, I think, I think Michael was the first baby you ever held.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

He was he was in the top one. Right. He was pretty much the only one.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

You had never taken care, like held a baby, taking care of a baby. And you know, I had my aunt and uncle who live right next to us. So when I was a teenager, I had their three boys that I got to spend a lot of time with. So I was definitely more comfortable. But I think I've heard that as like a reason, you know, you if you think about it, you don't know. So it's kind of like children, weirdly, since we've all been kids, but still it's like children are like the the other. Like you don't really know them, you don't know how to take care of them. What do you do with them? And so I think that's a big reason too. Instead of like our kids, they want, they can't wait to have their own kids.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

But I think the other the other thing too is consider this is always something that we point out as like a trap for people, and I think we mentioned it on the last podcast was you're overscheduling and keeping your kids so busy, because that's really what the the our generational parents did to us. It was outsourcing of school, outsourcing of sports, outsourcing of this. It was a it was a major outsourced, and I think I I feel bad for them because I don't think they had good discipleship to say, let's just pause before you get your kids into all these activities and say, is this a good idea? Yeah. Or are these uh uh activities appropriate for your kids to be separating the family time in order to accomplish.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

But don't you I think they were doing it a lot because they didn't get to do those things in a way. And so then they wanted their kids to have this amazing experience.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

So I think it's kind of like that weird pendulum swinging where you have like a big family and also they're getting all the propaganda of consumerism coming at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

So they were at they were in the time where like I can remember my mom saying when she was allowed to wear jeans, and it became like jeans were like a big thing. So they're just starting all that consumer stuff. So then they have kids and they want to give their kids all these things. And I think that's another, you know, big reason people aren't having kids is because it's expensive.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And it is expensive. I mean, we I think this is having like adults eating now is a whole nother thing. Like I feel like when our kids were younger, I really obviously it's a mouth to feed, but it's not the same as an adult mouth to feed.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

And we've really have we our kids that are, you know, our oldest is 18. The eight-year-old still wears his clothes. Like, so we've passed on all their clothes. We don't often buy clothes.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Hold on, Julia was in a Eliza dress. That was so cute.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah. Well, I mean, we have to buy things like bathing suits. My one like fail as a mom is socks. Like, I cannot manage to keep socks the worst in the house. Like, I'm in the house.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

I have to manage my own socks.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

It's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

I roll them up and I'm like, I don't even care if they get fully clean, I'm not losing a pair.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

But yet somehow we just well, and I think because the kids didn't, our kids don't wear shoes that much, to be fair. Right. And they didn't in South Africa at all, like rarely. And so there weren't that many socks. And then here in in Florida, they pretty much just wear socks when we go to church. But they will show up like Isaac has no, not I mean Isaac wore those socks that look like knee highs the other day, and the heels were like up by his like back of his calf.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

So that's my mothering fail.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

But um but from a consumer like a consumption standpoint, we try to keep it really, really low. I mean kind of like wherever we can, we're kind of like tightening our belts.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Right. Certain you have to bait buy like bathing suits for each kid, and obviously underwear.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah. Um but I think and it's in the and it's a talk about the pendulum swing. The anti-natal is part of partially because it was so expensive, but back then you could there was no limit to toys and clothes, and so it was like the boot.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Well, if you only have two, yeah, it's a lot easier to give those two kids everything you think that they would want.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Right? And so you let them play all the sports that they would want. You give them, you know, as many dresses and shoes and as you want, because I really do think that they they were trying to intentionally give, I say like they, like not just our parents, but I think that generation, because we were not the only ones. When we were growing up, there were so many kids that we knew that we went to school with and played sports with that had um just two siblings and they were nearly the same ages, too, like three and a half to four years apart.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yep, yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

So I think though the that age group, they really planned things out. So I think that they wanted to give their kids the best they could.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

The atten the intention was good, but I think it it led to a lot of narcissistic people, a lot of individuals.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

They just cut their families off now. Or they just cut their families off. Okay, now so now so they have these. We I mean there's lots of people that we know that don't have any relationship really with the parent or the child. And I think it bec it's right, it's like it goes back to, you know, we talked about the fact that we all are so focused. We live in a like expressive individual culture where we all think that we are the main character.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, main characters, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, but it's like we all think for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, and with which makes it and very anti-natal because you're sacrificing for your child, which to go back to the to the restaurants, nobody wants to have kids around when I've already made the sacrifices to that I want to have the nicest meal possible. I don't want to have sort of like when you're flying on a plane and someone you have a kid and they're crying, and someone gives you the look and you go, Let's fight.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Wait, or do you think that I want the kid crying right now? Do you think I'm having fun?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Like how many times I have to give that look? Like, do you think I'm having fun right now?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

You think I'm pinching the baby? We are on an 18-hour flight. Do you think I want them to be crying right now?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Our kids did really well still.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, it was still difficult.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

But I also I listened to a podcast the other day, and um the person said, just imagine, like, every child born now is desired in such a different way than like our parents' generation.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

You know, where a lot of people had like, you know, their surprise baby, or they they they just had children. It was a it was a part of the normal life was having children. Now every single child is maybe not every single child, but the majority of children are desired. Where like the parents want a child, it's like a project.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, it's because it sort of goes into the planning, it goes into the this is my trajectory. Well, we're gonna be married for this many years, and then we're gonna decide to start to have kids, and then we're gonna do it. I want to do it this day, this year is when I'm gonna start having a hype the hyper planning is a is a I think a definitely an antenatal because when you're not planning, when you I mean you have to be wise in the things that you're doing, but when you're trying to plan everything out so aggressively, it just doesn't leave room for spontaneity, it doesn't leave room as a few.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Or just to see a child as like a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

And to see a child as a blessing.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

I think we all have a story of a person we know, you know, that couldn't conceive, and then something happens and they, you know, stop like trying so hard, yeah, and they they fall pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Um so I think if you if you're if you're like parenting a child, that is your life project, obviously you're gonna be a potential victim for gentle parenting.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Because you this is like your like your your king or your queen almost, right? Where this is the thing that you've wanted more than anything in your life.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

And then you want to, you it's happiness, his or her happiness is the most important thing for you. And as we know, I mean your kids are gonna be mad at you sometimes. Like, especially with Julia's one, and she started picking bites and just screaming, like a like a real like ring wraith, kind of high-pitched scream. Like you get some kids that are really capable of that, like where your ears are actually ringing.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

So so she started doing this, and we've noticed with our kids, they give in so easily. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Whenever she wants, they're like, here, just give her the thing, you know, she can't have that piece of glass. No, she can't have that thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Or she can't like drown herself in the ocean right now.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Like she, like, that's always the funny thing that we say to each other when you hear people like talk about gentle parenting. When you're when you're or child-led anything, child-led anything when you're when you're like, she would just drown right now. If you let her, she would walk into the ocean and just drown.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Just child-led drowning.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

She would just go and, or so many different things. She would fall right off the bed. Like, there's so there's a lot of real life examples that we all see as parents that the child cannot be determining his or her own boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Well, I think that's that sort of, and and that kind of leads into really where I think it's easy to point out and like discuss all these things to a certain extent and say, well, how do how do we get here? But then it's well, what are the solutions? Because there's a lot of online, you know, public schools terrible. Of course, public schools terrible. That like, what's this what's the solution? Like, what do you do about it? So homeschool. Um, but with let's just use like restaurants as kind of the topic because we used to go out to eat quite a bit in Cape Town, and it was very nice. Right. We enjoyed going out with our kids. Our family was a joy to go out with.

unknown 16:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Um, so the so how do you how do we sort of combat the anti-natal, you know, no kid, no kid restaurants? Well, so number one, start your own restaurant and just make it a kid restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Okay, like start your own business, make your own restaurant, say, we want all the kids, we want all the kids to be around here. Step two is start, is to actually sort of like with with Cape Town, not so much now, but I think early, it was a very kid-friendly place.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

So if you're in an unkid-friendly place, your options are start a kid-friendly restaurant or um move to a place where there are kid-friendly areas. So, like Florida, because it's older, you're not getting as many kid-friendly areas. But if you go to I don't know, you know, Greenville or some I don't I don't know where.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I don't know either. You know, we haven't really found it.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Tell us where there's like high, high kid.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Because when we went to in in Cape Town, there's your restaurant outside often, and there's like an outside area, and then they have places for the kids to play.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

So it's much more of a it's not like a high turnover. You're not trying to just turn over the tables all the time. Yeah. You're sitting there, you're chatting with your friends, the kids are playing together. Um, so it's a different ambiance completely than going into just a restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah. And sitting there in the like at a chili, sitting in the booth with your kids.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

And I mean that like that directly plays into it. Like we were saying, if your kids are not well behaved, no one's gonna want them at a restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

That's like that, that's the the third solution is manage your kids.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Manage them. Like you have to, from a from a biblical standpoint, we are given the duty to raise our kids. You're given the duty to set those boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

And educate them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

To educate them, raise raise them in fear and admonition of the Lord. All of the the Bible is loaded with all these things that point the opposite direction of gentle parenting, right? Towards having like r not strict, but like a framework. Firm framework and boundaries in which you have to raise your kids. So a lot of these antinatal restaurants, I don't blame them because you go out to dinner, you go out to eat, every single it's it is a to be fair, we have not been out to eat. Yes. But when you go out, even just to go out to the grocery store, yeah, you're seeing parents instead of managing the kid's behavior, which starts at home, starts when they're one, they're giving them a phone to sit in to sit still in a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Or like in a grocery cart.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Walking around the grocery store, doing anything. I saw a video of a little girl who was basically carrying her iPad in like one hand, chasing after her mom, excuse me, ended up grabbing onto the dress of a different lady and walking around, didn't take her eyes off the iPad. Yeah, and the lady is like walking and she sees that she's pulling her dress and she goes, What are you what are you doing? That is a problem. That is the exact opposite, especially from a Christian standpoint. We want to say, how can we make an impact in the culture in our in the world? Get your kids under control. They shouldn't be running around like crazy people, yeah, they shouldn't be throwing temper tantrums in restaurants. If they're throwing temper tantrums at restaurants, you're not figuring that out at home. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Well, I think that's why to prevent them from throwing the temper tantrum, people just give them the tablets. The tablets or the phones. Right. And I and I feel like as a mom, I think what happens for a lot of the women that, because obviously it's all over like social media, um, but it's not new. No. I mean, think about like the hippie generation. You think gentle parenting was new? Like the hippie people, like they completely there's lots and lots of boomers who raise their kids. We're living in a society of people who didn't get spanked. Right. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Um, and yeah, so I think the idea that you're being more loving, because I think a lot of it comes from people, you know, we know we've known a lot of people who maybe were not spanked appropriately. And so then they decide to over Yeah, they were not spanked.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

They were they were beaten. It was an abuse.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

It was like a parent spanking out of anger.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Right. So then they decide they're not going to spank their children at all. Right. And the difficult part is that children have to have a consequence. And so if you're not gonna spank, time out is not a consequence. Like putting a kid in the corner, I'm like you can't like you put a two-year-old in the corner, it doesn't, they don't learn anything.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

They don't, it doesn't, it doesn't register.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

It doesn't register, not only not necessarily quickly, but effectively.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

And I think the hard part too is for a lot of moms, they really haven't had a situation where they really realize that the consequences of not disciplining your children are really, really like severe consequences. Like we we've known situations where you have a child that is like full on being gentle parented, where you talk to the parents, you know that you know what their parenting philosophy is, and you see what happens when the child isn't disciplined. So we've seen like horrible biting. Yes. Like biting to the point that the the child, the victim, has bruising and teeth marks like repeatedly.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

And I think when most parents see that, you're like, okay, like Okay, something's not working here. And then when it's your child that's the victim, yeah, I think that does give people sort of the shake they need sometimes to just say, okay, you can't just let a child work it out for themselves without any type of guidance of what's acceptable and what's not. And so you can see these parents that I think they do mean well, but they're trying to rationalize with a two-year-old or a three-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

And you can see that the it's not making any type of impact on the child. The child looking at anything else, not listening, the mom It doesn't, it doesn't register. And often I think the poor mom doesn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Well, that's I think that's the biggest thing. It's like you don't in in that situation that you're talking about. I know we know those people, obviously. We they're they're nice people, come from some terrible family situations where they went the opposite end of the extreme, and they're now producing the opposite end of the extreme from them, which was also an extreme. But they didn't have anybody to say, okay, how do I? Like, even for me, I never had the the like anybody because I didn't get spanked nearly enough. I told I I always tell my parents, you should just whoop my butt. You should have broke a belt over me. Um, but I didn't have anybody to say, hey, this is actually how you how you need to discipline. And especially if you're homeschooling, it's not just the dad's responsibility to discipline, because then what happens is the homeschool is just like this because they know mom's not gonna actually deal with the discipline that needs to be dealt with. And then from a from a dad's perspective, how do you discipline? How do you your yourself needs to be under control? Right. There needs to be like a clear, a clear path of especially like a biblical righteous discipline that ends in I love you and I and I'm giving you a hog. It's not punishment.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

But I think that's the thing people get confused on. Like, so when you have the gentle parenting like philosophy, they compare that to like punishment. So they they see they it's they see that anything other than then just like pure kindness and trying to reason and talk your child through things is punishment. Yes, but it's really not because what you're trying to do is you're trying to teach the child self-control. That is really what you're trying to teach at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah. It's just self-control.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

And the consequence has to be something that when the next time the opportunity to do that behavior rolls around, the child has a little bit of a pause and says, Oh, if I do this, if I bite my sister, I'm gonna get a spank.

unknown 24:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And so I think the um the idea that it's more loving to not discipline to me is actually the antithesis of love. Well, because what you're doing is you're basically basically making it seem like the child has to figure that out on their own when they're an adult. So it's not like all of a sudden one day your child turns 10 and they're like, I figured it out. I figured out self-control on my own. You know what happens when you have a teenager who has no self-control.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Right?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

It's I can tell you. I have a history of that.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

I have a history of- It's me.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

I know that guy. I'm him. He's me. We're the same guy.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

And you can say it's much harder.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

It is much harder. And it is it and it in a and what it's way older to have self-control, yeah. I mean, because you you really like those those early years are foundational to help to develop that self-control. Like it is a is a fruit of the spirit, certainly. However, especially as a parent, you're teaching that to them, and this is the way that the Bible gives us that framework of actually how to do that. Because if you don't discipline them, then the state will discipline them. Right. So either you set found found you set boundaries to help them understand how to control themselves, or the state will. Or the consequences of drinking and driving will, or the consequences of drugs will, or the consequence, whatever, like all of these different consequences. So it really is the the idea behind gentle parenting, I understand. Yeah, but it's just not, and it's definitely not biblical.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

And it's also not fruitful, like because the fruit that you get from it is not, you can see it goes hand in hand with the fact that no one wants to have kids anymore, and no one wants kids around anymore.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

And that happens to coincide with the huge rise in gentle parenting, right? Like a huge increase in people believing that that is the best way to raise your children and discipline your children. And I think, you know, for us, because from a biblical worldview, we're we're definitely we're operating from the sense that you must teach children what to love. Yeah. You have to teach them what is good, you have to teach them what is valuable, you have to teach them virtues. It doesn't happen on its own, you know. So I feel like we we've had a lot of interactions with people who definitely aren't Christians, and that's one of the things I think you can have a lot of things in common with someone, but then what you what you actually think about a child, and we obviously we love children. Yeah, we've had a lot of them, and I and we love them, and I we're children fans. Yeah, we I enjoy being around children all the time, like I really, really do. But the idea that they are inherently good is just insane.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Like you just they're going to choose good, no, they're gonna choose candy, they're gonna choose walking into the ocean, yeah, they're gonna choose walking around a fork in their mouth when they're learning to walk.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

That's what they're going to choose to do. That's what they're gonna do, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:42

And that those things aren't necessarily evil bad or evil, but it's just that they need to be able to do that. The consequence of those things are bad.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

And they just have to be taught how to do that. And so I think people have a like a it's a ch obviously it's a challenge to to raise a child. Um, but it's it's one of those things where, and I say this to ladies all the time, you're you're not going to regret having a child. You know, th those the rare times you see those wild things where those women say that, yeah. It's absurd. Um I think you're gonna have a lot more people who regret not having children.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah, yeah, I've seen that much more.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yes. Um, and I think for us, the idea that you would say that children are not allowed someplace is wild, just in itself. Like that you could say that any people are like this person, you're not allowed to be able to do something.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

So for society to continue, we have to ostracize how society will continue.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Or like that's a kind of what it is. Like the natural, like a society is like humans in all their forms. Generationally generationally babies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah. No, I think it's a it it's definitely an issue, and I again it's I sort of look at at myself and I give myself and a lot of people grace because they didn't, there's there's no that that generational wisdom of from a from a father's perspective of how to discipline their kid well, that is rarely passed down well, generationally speaking. So a lot of people, you know, you might be watching this and say, well, my dad beat me or my parents didn't spank me. Okay, well, what are the consequences of both of those things? Right. And then look to the Bible specifically for instructions on how to do it well and how to do it right, that produces generational kids who understand they have to discipline their kids. Because I think that's the other thing is with um a lot of the grandparents, they're dealing with the consequences with their own grandkids. Right. Where they're like, I don't want to be around this little rat. This little brat kid doesn't listen. Right. The parents don't hold them accountable. It's not fun for anyone for it's not fun for a grandparent to spend time with little Timmy when Timmy is a j is a jerk.

unknown 30:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

And and just eats whatever he wants and doesn't respect anybody and doesn't listen. So, in in that sense, it's actually not only loving your your own family, but it's your own kids. It's actually like fifth commandment loving and honoring and obeying and respecting your parents by raising kids who love and honor and respect.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Maybe we should do the next next podcast on the books that may be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I was even thinking for Or you can just shoot us an email.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Send us an email, Brad at anyonecanhomeschool.com or Aubrey at anyonecanhomeschool.com.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

I even think for me, when when I was we were first having Micah and I read Babywise. Yeah, that was like you know, it's kind of like a polemic kind of book. Because it's sort of the same thing, like the same thing with babies. So people read a book like Baby Wise and they're like, oh, how dare you let your baby cry.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

And so you have the other the other end of the spectrum, which is basically baby-led everything.

unknown 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Right? Which I've kind of done a mix. I mean, I feel like when you have a newborn, you're definitely not gonna leave it.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Baby led sawzawing is what I'm a big fan of.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

But the thing is with baby guys, I can remember it just being like, okay, this makes sense. The parent has to set the tone for the home, but the parent has to direct things. So the parent has to say, this is when the baby will sleep. Like you cannot make the baby fall asleep, but you can decide that this is when the baby's going to sleep. You can put all of the things into position that facilitate the baby falling asleep.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

And when you do that, I can tell you from experience, everyone's happier. The baby's happier, the parents are happier, the siblings are happier, you're sleeping more, the home runs smoothly. You're not owned by a little person. We know we've had a lot of friends too that it's sleep is a hard thing for the parents to even the baby, like a baby or child trying to direct how much sleep they need, right? If the if you have a child that's two years old and the child thinks it doesn't need a nap anymore.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

As a parent, you have to say, well, you need a nap still. You you actually need a nap.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I know why you need a nap.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Six o'clock is telling me the way that you're melting down. Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

I feel like that's honestly one of the things that if people are listening with kids, one of the things that you can start doing if you do feel like you're in over your head with your kids right now, is to get them sleeping more. Just to start making them take naps.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Right? To go to bed earlier. Quiet times. For us if they're old.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Quiet times.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yes. But even just your kids need more sleep than you're thinking.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

And you can't expect a child to have self-control and to actually um like calibrate their own mood if they're sleep deprived.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

So I would say for me, like that is my number one tip. Give give me a few more. Work on getting work on like your children sleeping more, you sleeping more. And that will be like the first step to trying to um to like overcome any like discipline issues that you have. Oh, for sure. Because then you can start, once you know everyone's sleeping well and the child sleeping adequately, then you can start dealing with you know disobedience or attitude issues. But if you're not, if they're not well rested, I feel like it's not even worth it starting.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

It's it's like that um the Snickers commercial where somebody's like a completely different person, and then you're just like, here, you're hungry. That's kind of a lot of women, like you just have to feed them. But children, 90 from literally almost every example for from our 18 years and multiple countries and people and all this stuff, 99% of the time this kid's tired. Yes, you woke them up too early, they didn't take a nap, they go to bed too late, they miss their sleep windows, then that cycle just continues and it sort of compounds. And I think that the difficult thing is it's almost like it's almost like the withdrawals of having to deal with fixing all of that is just too much. So people say, Oh, that's just how they are, that's just how we are. And that's just not true.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

No, and it means that you probably you you're gonna have to probably stay home more than you want to stay.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

It's gonna change your schedule, right? But it's gonna change your going out.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

It's so worth it having well-rested children.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

100%.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

I think, yeah, it's a hard one if you think, okay, people are gonna take their kid out to a restaurant and it's like six o'clock, and the kid didn't take a nap, and you're wanting to sit still at like a at a table.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Of course everybody's gonna be mad at your kid. I'm mad at your kid. Get him out of here. Put that kid down for a nap. Like that's ultimately what it is.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

It would be cool if people wanted to start more family-friendly restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Outdoor people. Probably in America, they probably everyone would have to sign over like waivers to get on like the play equipment, or like they it'd have to be like, I don't know, something with like like a bounce house with like walls all around it, but they probably could only get one at a time. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

The only way to enter is by saying I forfeit all right all Karen rights of of lawsuit for my kids having fun. That that's how it would be like when you enter the premises of the Stafford restaurant, yeah, you forfeit all opportunity to sue. I hope someone will kids will be kids in here, however, they will be well-disciplined kids. Yeah. But they will be able to go out and have fun.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Very good. Well, thanks for chatting. You also and thanks for thanks for joining us at anyone can homeschool. The outside the system, please share this podcast with friends and family. And if you have any questions really about sort of like resetting the the behavioral stuff, resetting the sleep stuff, just reach out. Like, we want to help people. Like, that's kind of what what we're doing this for is to kind of feel that. Well, nobody told me how to do that. Now you don't have an excuse. If you're watching this, you don't have an excuse that, well, nobody told me how to do that. We're telling you we'll help you do that. But you do have to reach out and we'll help you. So until next time, thank you for joining us, and we'll talk to you soon.