Ep. 016 | Turning Grief into Community-Powered Creativity

In this heartfelt and transformative episode of Stories of Survivors, host Serina Dansker welcomes the courageous and creative Jessie Spellman, co-creator of Recess Grove. Together, they explore how deep personal grief can become a catalyst for healing not only the self—but an entire community. Jessie opens up about her journey through loss, and how it inspired her to co-create a space where art, remembrance, and connection intertwine. This episode is a moving tribute to the human capacity to turn pain into purpose and sorrow into shared strength. Tune in and be inspired by the power of community-driven creativity and the light that can emerge from even the darkest chapters.

To learn more about Serina Dansker, purchase her book S.O.S.: A Lesson on Love, Loss, & Survival, book her for a public speaking engagement, and discover more stories of hope, healing, and resilience, visit www.serinadansker.com.

S.O.S. Stories of Survivors — Where Survival Sparks the Soul.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Hi there and welcome back to SOS Stories of Survivors, where survival sparks the soul. I'm Serena Dansker, your host, and joining me today is Jesse Spelman. She's the force behind Recess Grove. It's a sanctuary in Brooklyn that has given people an opportunity to find healing through play. I'm so excited for her to share her story today. Welcome, Jesse.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Thank you, Serena. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

And I'm feeling like we really need to get your story out there. So why don't we start way back from the beginning and talk about you a little bit, what your background is, where you grew up.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Sure. I spent most of my childhood right outside of New York City. Although I was born in New York City and identify strongly as a New Yorker. And pretty much as far back as I can remember, I've been passionate about race and social justice. I don't know why, but it's always been my special interest. And it wasn't until I really got to college that I really began to investigate and get curious about why the world was set up the way it is. So I studied something called urban studies, which was a sociological and economic approach to looking at American cities and the built environment. And I parlayed that into uh my first career, which was as a middle school math teacher. And during that time, I always say that uh I learned two big things. Number one, it wasn't the best use of the unearned advantages of my identity because I was teaching in West Philly. I wasn't from that neighborhood, I didn't grow up in that neighborhood, and 100% of my students were black, and 90% were white women, 90% of the teachers were white women like me. And it didn't feel like I was really in a place where I could enact change at the scale that I believed possible. Um, which brings me to the second thing I really learned during that experience, which is I felt that there were other ways to attack these seemingly intractable problems in a space like public education. And so I spent a while in management consulting, working for the world's largest organizations on different transformations, including operating model, organizational redesign. And throughout that time, I still really felt called to doing work that centered people's humanity and that enabled people to live their best lives. And honestly, uh after a decade of doing that work, I felt really disempowered and um disillusioned with an environment where humans were not the center of the work that we did. Um, human well-being and things that make people thrive were not the main focus of the work that I was doing. And I felt really disillusioned by that. Um, I mentioned that I've always been really passionate about uh equality and justice. And unfortunately, uh the business world does not prioritize those things. Um, and so uh it's it's if if I if I were to sort of skip ahead to today, I now have two incredible business partners, one of whom I'm married to, and the other one is my husband's best friend from college. Um, but we all three of us have uh backgrounds in more traditional corporate roles, and we all sort of individually rediscovered ourselves and became really passionate and sort of came alive again once we started creating.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I wanna hold that because I want to get, I want to build up to that because you've got such an interesting life, Jesse. I mean, you you grew up in you know New York in the outskirts on the outs, you know, outskirts of New York City. You are passionate. And it's it shows it you can feel the energy off you with people, and somehow you ended up in corporate America where the most important thing is the almighty dollar. And I get that, you know, and that's that's good. I I understand that. But what I what I really would love to to know too is what role models did you have as a child growing up? I know you were really close with your mom, and I know your mom was a powerhouse all on her own. Can you talk about a little bit about the warrior and her and and the role model that she was to you?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, my mother was a person filled with joy and and radiance and light. She was a gatherer of people and an artist in in her own right, in the way that she designed the spaces that we spent time in our whole lives, and the the really the way that she brought people together. And those are two things that I carry with me um every single day in the work that we're doing at Recess Grove, bringing people together around the act of making. Um, and I've always looked up to her.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

She was she was really creative and also brilliant, you know, and a brilliant businesswoman and a great mindset. But can you tell me a little bit about um take me back to the time when you first found out that she was diagnosed with cancer? I I think there's a story behind that, even that one that was published, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, I a long time ago, I was thinking. Yeah, my mother's uh my mother's illness was uh definitely an unusual journey to how we ultimately lost her. But the first time my mother got sick, she was only 38, so only two years older than I am now. Um, I was turning uh I was 10, turning 11, my sister was seven, turning eight. And uh, you know, our our bodies do a lot to disassociate and block out trauma. And I don't remember a lot of things from that time, but the essay that I wrote that was published um when I was still a teenager was about how after my mother was first diagnosed, instead of having the nurses um shave her head in the hospital, she made it like a fun salon spa day with me and my sister. And we came home from school and she asked us to give her a haircut, and she made something as uh miserable and terrifying as chemo kind of fun for her two young girls. Um, and then you know, we had almost 20 years of relative health before she got sick again, and um that second time everything was unfortunately very vivid. I was a grown, I was a grown-up and um she got sick on Christmas Day 2018, and then she passed on February 1st, 2019.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

I'm so sorry, Jess. I mean, I I I know firsthand how grief can take a toll on on Europe mentally, physically, and um, you know, I know that, you know, we all process it differently. And um, you know, during the days, the weeks, the months after someone passes, you know, sometimes you you do things that surprise you. Was there anything that surprised you that that happened after she passed?

SPEAKER_00 8:16

I think it's more recognizing the universality of the experience of grief and realizing feeling that emotion for the first time. I I couldn't help but think of people who lose loved ones more than one loved one. Or when you think about the displacement that's going on right now in our country and the violence and the war. I think about how losing my mother at 29 tore me up, completely derailed me. I had to take time off work. I I really didn't know how how time would go on. And yet that is part of the human experience. It's something that people experience every single day and always have and always will. And um I remember uh I did a lot, I love to read. And so I did a lot of reading during that time. I read The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Didion. I read Um Unwinding of the Miracle by Julie Yep Williams. And one of the books that I read was Wild by Sheryl Strade. She's I love, I love her work. And I remember the first time I read that book was before I lost my mom. And I thought, oh, well, the the author, it's a memoir. She starts um using heroin, and she um leaves her husband, um, even though she loves him and she's in a good relationship. And you read it without understanding grief, and you think, oh, well, this person must have some other things going on. And then you experience grief and you realize how completely reasonable those things, those things seem. Um you the the power of this emotion is really well documented and has been studied. Um, and yet, like menopause, like childbirth, it's one of those things that even though it happens to almost everybody, we don't we don't really talk about the details. Um and so I would say that I didn't, I didn't, I don't, it's not so much that I remember any specific action. It's more that all of the other things that I had heard or read about grief all of a sudden came into much sharper focus and made a lot more sense. And I had so much um just honestly gratitude that I had a had a job and a support system that allowed me to take that time away and just grieve and be with my feelings because I know that so many people don't have a choice. Um, they don't have a choice, they have to get up and go back to work and keep going. And um, I am so grateful that I had the support system that I was able to take that to take that time. Um, to take that time. And as you know, it's it's also not something that ever really goes away. It's just something you learn to live with.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

That's that's bingo right on the head. I mean, some people, you know, they're just like, oh, you know, I see you out smiling, you must be recovered, you know. And I'm like, don't mistake my laughter and my smiles and my joy for me forgetting what I've been through. I'm just I'm living my life because I'm still here and we're still with the present, you know. And I know that you've, you know, realized that, you know, grief is like a tidal wave, you know. And sometimes the next wave hits you and you feel like you're drowning, but then suddenly you realize that you're actually treading water and you're you're you're doing the best you can to keep your head afloat. And and and you do have a community and a support staff and uh not a support staff, but a support group, your your your friends, your family, um, who were there to to hold you up when you're when you are drowning. And um exactly. I um I I I when did you realize that that you, you know, when did I guess the spark happened where where you know the grief was there surrounding you, but you also realized that that there was more. There was there was something else out there, there was something for you to do.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Uh the in the immediate fog of fog of my grief, um, it it was really the strength of uh my community and my support system that helped me. I had friends show up with food. Um, I had friends show up and just do my laundry. Um, I had I had people constantly checking in on me, sending me cards and notes and flowers, and really just like reminding me that um with time things would get easier. And I think when you're in the midst of it, uh that's not really helpful to hear. And it's and it's true. Um, there's uh an analogy that someone shared with me that stays with me, and I like to share with people about grief, which is um grief is like a ball inside of a box. And when you first lose somebody, the ball is almost the entire size of the box that it's inside, and there's a pain button, and the ball is just right up against that pain button the whole time because the ball is so big and you're always in pain. And over time the ball gets smaller, and so it's not always hitting the pain button, and the ball shrinks and shrinks, but it never goes away. And sometimes the ball hits the pain button again and it feels like it happened yesterday. Um, and so that's what we mean when we say you learn how to live with it, um, and time makes it better because your life is able to continue on and grow around it, but this fact of what happened and that pain is always with you. Um, and you, you know, we we don't do anything by ourselves, we do nothing alone. And um I I got through that experience because of the the people in my life who love and support me. Um, and that is that's really like that's what we owe each other. Um and I'm so grateful for my for my community and how uh I never, you know, they say grief is love with nowhere to go. And um you that person that you that that you love is is is no longer there. And so you you you have to lean on the other people in your life to um help you go on and survive the next day, even if it feels uh impossible at the time.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

But then you have to take that love and do something with it to keep that person's memory alive, right? Yeah, you know, and that and that love is almost like fuel, you know, for for for the things that are within you, that energy, that that spark. And you know, it doesn't happen right away, but along with your healing comes growth. And and and let's talk a little bit about that origin spark. Was there a single interaction that lit the fuse for creating recess grove?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

I think my journey to creating recess grove, um, my mother, my mother's life and the person that she was and is has been an inspiration for so many things that I've done in my life. And this I I would say that losing my mother allowed me to be brave enough to define a life that I wanted to live and to go off and do things that I really believed in, and that felt uh more in line with the life that I wanted to live. Um, and so it was it really the way that she lived her life that was a constant inspiration to me. But I was able to make I was since since losing her, I've been able to do so many things that I know she'd be so proud of. Um, but I also see sort of echoes of the way that she lived her life. She was in business with her best friend. Um, I'm in business with my husband and his best friend. She um had a business in New York City, my business is in New York City, and she really led with her heart, and she was known for being a person that people wanted to spend time around. And we have built a place together that people really want to spend time in and be around, and especially in an era of unprecedented loneliness where people don't even know how to spend time and be and be together. Um, I really take the lessons that my mom taught me implicitly about what it means to bring people together, what it means to entertain, what it means to encourage people to be authentic with each other and have real, meaningful and memorable experiences. Um, that was just the way my mom, my mom lived. And I think uh as most children do, I definitely took it for granted uh when she was just my mom, because she was just my mom. Um but uh I I now I now realize um the the magic that she brought to um all of the of the people that she always hosted. And um that's something that I that I think we're definitely carrying um at Recess Grove. And it's really it's uh we we we say that we're a sanctuary for creativity and play.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

And that really means that we are a place to to make things, to, to, to, to move through our feelings and our emotions through the act of creating. And um that's something that I always did with my mother. I just didn't have the language for it. Um, the way that we would play dress up, the way that we would always redecorate bedrooms and living rooms and all the rooms in the house. Um, those were always acts of of creating and bringing new worlds to life. And um I'm grateful that I can now share those experiences uh with other people. And I've I've had depression and anxiety since I was 14 or 15. And um I always had uh therapists encourage me to journal or encourage me to meditate, and that always felt inaccessible to me because it felt like another thing on my to-do list. It felt like, oh, this is more work. This how is this gonna help? And what I've realized now is that journaling really just means putting pen to paper and expressing yourself. And sometimes expressing myself means drawing scribbles, sometimes it means filling the page with circles, sometimes it means coloring the entire page in black. Um, and this experience has helped me understand that that um you have to actually move through your feelings. I say that making art helps me compost them. And I I I I bring up the journaling, I bring up the journaling element as well because I now keep this journal, and it's not, you know, today is Saturday, July 5th, and I woke up and went there. That that didn't work for me. It might work for others, but what worked was okay, I I am feeling things, and so I need to figure out a way to move through them because I don't have words right now. And um I'm very grateful for this practice, and it's something that I know is accessible to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

You know, that's I love that. And I just I the whole thing with the loneliness and and talking about that, it hits me hard because I know that my own son, you know, who passed from suicide, he was surrounded by people, but yet he was lonely, you know, and and you're right, it's a it's an epidemic in in our in our society. And you know, people don't know how to do that connection. And here you are, you're building a community space, Jess, and in Brooklyn. And this is no easy feat. I mean, you needed permits, rent. I'm sure there were skeptics that said, oh, you can't do that. And um talk to me about the biggest, are we really doing this hurdle and you know, and and how you vaulted it and and and and started this?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah, it it the real honestly, my husband and his best friend from college hit the ground running with this at the end of 2022. Um, they had always been thinking about starting their own business. And there's a there's a concept in um for people who are who practice their creativity regularly, and the concept is called synchronicity. And synchronicity is I'm sure you've experienced it. You're thinking about somebody and then they call you, or you are really you're really craving something, and then all of a sudden it's a special at the restaurant that you're having dinner at. Um, and these little moments where it seems like it's almost too, it's it's too perfect to just be a coincidence. Um, that's sometimes called synchronicity. And there was a lot of synchronicity with the the birth of this idea because while Corey and Justin, my partners, were meditating on this idea of doing something that was creative, doing something that was a space where people could come and make things with their hands. I at the same time, on my own, was rediscovering how good it felt to watercolor, um, teaching myself how to crochet and making things for. My nephew and for my family. And at the beginning of 2023, we all sort of sat down and it sort of simple, but in hindsight, that's a little bit how it felt. We all sort of had these ideas. And then honestly, I wasn't sure whether I was going to stay in my um, I had a I led a human resources team at the largest company in the the largest employer in the country. And I was also feeling really disillusioned. And I decided, you know what? I think it's time to just like bet on myself. I don't, I don't have to do things the way that there's more, there's more, I can actually do anything. I think you realize um when your life is shaken up like that, that you you don't have to always follow this pre this pre-set out path. And so we we we we all I've been doing this now full-time for a little over a year, and um it's really rewarding and really challenging. And I am really grateful to be able to be my full self and um do something day in, day out that I really, really believe in. Um, and I don't I uh so for so much of my corporate life, I felt like I had to sort of look the other way or hold my nose um in some in a lot of the meetings that I were in because they didn't center, um, I didn't I didn't experience um I haven't experienced organizations that centered humanity and human rights and human dignity. And um that's baked into everything that we do at Recess Grove, and I'm I'm really grateful.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

That's that's so you know, it's so enlightening and it's so wonderful to hear that you realize that you can pivot, that you you can change, you have free will. Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah, and we lose sight of that, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

We do, yeah. And I find myself telling that to people all the time. Um, people from who I went to graduate school with, uh, just people who come in and and and they look at us and they're like, Whoa, like what is this place? What are wow? I mean, every single day, I I'm not really exaggerating. Every single day, someone um cries because of the like how moved and overwhelmed they are by by the space. And um people look sometimes and like, oh, isn't this like your dream job? And I say, number one, I don't dream of labor. I I I don't I I I dream of being with people I love eating strawberries in a field. And as long as I have to to to to do something, I am so grateful that um I get to dedicate uh myself to this in a way that where my time really feels like it's mine, and I feel like I'm able to be my full self. I think so much of my corporate life was felt like an acting job. I felt like I deserved an Oscar, um not a not a promotion.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Oh, I you know, and it's it's crazy that you say that because so many of us, you know, we put on that face, that mask, you know, that persona that, you know, to get through the day and you know, fake it till you make it, right? Exactly. Yeah, and uh I think that you know what you've built here, recess grove, you know, it's mission, it centers on play for all ages, but it's it also centers on healing, right? Yeah and and and and how that's connected. Could you talk a little bit about that? I mean, I know you've talked about your own how it's helped you healing, but just go into a little more detail about how playing creativity is is healing for for those that are experiencing trauma or loss and and how it's freeing.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

There are there have been tons of books, essays, articles, podcasts, um, detailing from a like empirical, evidence-based research perspective, all the different ways that creativity um helps us. It helps spark new connections in our brain. It helps us um, I I use the term compost our feelings. Um, and we're seeing a huge increase in um art therapy. And there were some of our favorite, some of my favorite books on the topic. Um, This is your brain on art, uh, the creative act, uh, find your unicorn space, um, Beyond Anxiety. Um these are just a few titles that go into some of the details around um how any act of creativity really is shown to in an evidence-based way to help improve your overall health and well-being. And even beyond all the research and the data, um, something that we like to say at Recess Grove too is that you're allowed to do something fun because it feels good. I think a lot of times we don't give ourselves permission to just enjoy. I have to remind people, um, I have to remind adults all the time, I'm not gonna grade you on whatever it is you're making here. You're not gonna get a performance review. Um, if you end up in MoMA, I'll come visit, but that's not the goal. You're not here to be in a museum. And so much of how we're we live, we're we're asked to constantly sort of prove or justify our existence. Um, even our hobbies we're asked to monetize or make into a side hustle. And um, when we say that we're a sanctuary for creativity and play, that's an invitation to just be.

unknown 27:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Just showing up and just being is is enough. And so when it comes to art and creativity, I talked about the scribbles in in a journal. Um when little kids take out crayons and markers and pens and they talk to you about what they're drawing, and it doesn't look like anything to you, but you can tell they're really engrossed. That's because, as you know, kids, kids know things. Um, and they they they know and they understand inherently that human beings we're all artists, we all have that in us. Um, whether it's through the the breakfast that we decide to make for ourselves or our family, that might be your way of creativity. Um maybe, maybe you like to uh crochet or knit like I do. Maybe you like to make music. Um, and maybe you make music for yourself. Singing in the shower, a song that you made up counts. Um, give yourself credit for that. Um and I think it's it's it's really, really hard in a in a in a world that uh is so relentless and expects so much of us. But um allowing yourself even five minutes a day to just create something for no reason, for no reason other than you're enjoying it and it's fun. Um, I have found to be one of the most revolutionary and transformational things um that I've ever done in my life. And uh I I know that it's accessible and available to everybody. And something that's beautiful about it too is you you really this element of making things, but also the element of community and doing things next to other people. Because a lot of times um it's it's it's so hard to give ourselves permission. Well, it's even harder if you're not surrounded by people that are sort of encouraging you, yeah, and whatever it is, and I keep talking about creativity and and and and I I mentioned the example of cooking or the example of soft fiber crafts, but recess grove is really we're we're talking about being a sanctuary for creativity and play, and we're not emphasizing all of the paint supplies and collage supplies, and I'm not even talking about our entire woodworking studio because we know that those are just ways to bring this philosophy that art makes us whole to life. And um, you might love something that I don't love, but I love that you love it. And I I'm thinking of we had this person come in and he really didn't feel that he could do anything. He's like, I have no creativity. We put all of clay in front of him, and he made the most detailed, incredible golf course with all of these different traps, and it was so intricate. And I really don't like golf at all. I don't have anything nice to say about golf, and it was so incredible and beautiful to see somebody light up about what they loved and to see somebody find that spark for themselves, and that's really what we are doing is helping everybody find their own path and recognizing the path that makes Jesse light up is different than the path that makes Serena light up. And that is great. And also, by the way, we can still do that together. We can still sit around the table while you're working on your beat of jewelry and you're doodling. And we also have a cafe, so we can have a glass of wine too if you want.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

But we're coming to the table, um, really connecting over real physical things and moving through those feelings. And um it's it's it's really it's a really cool thing to forget to look at your phone for a few hours. It's definitely rare in this thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Oh, you're not kidding. That's it, it's so it's so I see you light up when you talk about it, and I just I love it. I can feel the energy, I can feel the enthusiasm. And I was gonna ask you, you know, about stories about people coming in because I know like sometimes I'll do those wine and painting classes, and I'm so critical of myself because I'm not a painter by training. And then after a while, I'm just like, you know what? I'm just gonna have fun and I'll put a little paint on my nose and on my friend's nose and just have fun with it and just just remember why you're doing it and give yourself grace, you know. And I think it's so important, you know. Yeah. I love it. I do, I really love it. And I guess, you know, um I know community can be messy, you know. You're you're in the midst of Brooklyn. And can can you talk about a moment when things almost maybe fell apart and the decisions you've made to that, you know, recess growth's heartbeat is gotta keep beating, you're gonna hold it steady, and and what was the push to do that?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, the uh running opening a brick and mortar uh business with your spouse and their best friend is really challenging. Um, and so it's and we are doing so much, and it's really just the three of us. Um, we have a couple of incredible young artists who support us. Um, but the the the decision making, the the strategy, the planning, our entire calendar of events, that's all just the three of us. And so it's really, really, really hard. We're exhausted, we've never worked so much in our lives. And what keeps it going is our belief in the place. We we know that it's necessary. We we know that it is already impacting the the people who have stepped through the space. And I mentioned that people cry almost every day when they come in. People also come in almost every day and thank us for existing. Um, it's it's it still feels a little surreal. We we look at ourselves sometimes and you know, we're so tired, we're so cranky, we don't know how we're gonna keep going. And then somebody comes in and says, Wow, thank you so much for existing. Um, what can I do to help? How who can I tell? How can I how can I continue to get the word out? And so um seeing how moved people are from just being in this space is is really like all the motivation we need to to keep going. Um and we've been told we're the most wholesome place in New York City, we've been told we're the most calm and soothing place in New York City. And uh, you know, we don't we don't take that lightly. Uh New York is uh a really unique and uh cuckoo place. And um we're really, we're really grateful for the the community that we're building. Um even though it's messy, even though it's really hard, um, it's you know, nothing nothing uh nothing worth having comes easy. And um we we we are we're we're grateful. Uh especially the you know, I I I started off this conversation by talking about how passionate I am about um human rights, and and I always have been. And in a time as uncertain and as heart-wrenching as this time is, it is it is so heartening to be able to work towards and build something that I believe in so strongly and that I believe is so um human-centered.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Um the impact, the impact that you're having on people. Can you talk a little bit about like some of the classes and some of the like let's let's maybe go through one week of of at Recess Grove, what you what you offer people? I I think it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so um we hopefully um it's come across clearly that we believe that the creative act is something that anyone can do and that it can be part of your regular daily lives in whatever way works for you. And that is how we've designed Recess Grove to meet you wherever you are in your creative journey so that you can find your own creative path. And so the front part of our physical space that we're in, we call it our counter. And it's this beautiful curved countertop. Uh, it's made entirely from one single ash tree that we uh kiln dried and cut into slabs. Yourself? You did all the work? We did, we did all the work ourselves in the space. Yes. We're we're totally, yes, it was totally crazy. Um, and we hand planed the entire surface and then we tiled the entire front of the bar. And so you walk into this, you know, really unique bar. I haven't seen a bar like it. Um, that's really sort of sculpted out of this piece of of you know 300-year-old wood. And the bar is designed with these curves to really invite you to slow down the second you walk in. And we have a cafe right up front at the counter. So you can think of it like coffee shop by day, wine bar by night, and it's filled with all of these um creative prompts and games, coloring books, activity books, colored pencils, and paper. So you're really encouraged as soon as you sit down to grab um something and start playing. We also have friendship bracelets and origami, so there's a lot of nostalgia as well. People are always grabbing things and saying, Oh, I haven't seen this since I was a kid. And it immediately encourages you to play. Um, not only to play, but I mentioned that the bar has these curves. So you're also sitting next to people and in a way that encourages conversation as opposed to a traditional bar that's just straight up and down, and you don't really know who's at the other end. And so that's just the front part. So always walk in, grab a grab a cup of coffee, grab a glass of wine, grab a snack, and hang out at the front. All those art supplies are just part of the experience up front at the counter. We also do classes and events. So um most of our classes and events take place in the studio, which is just beyond the sort of the curtains in the physical space. And then we have a whole art studio with um tables that we made by hand and art supplies ranging from I talked about them already a little bit, but tons of drawing supplies, sculpting supplies, collage supplies, fiber, mixed media. And you can also walk in and use the studio. You can get a studio session. Um, or I talked a little bit about the classes and events, you could attend one of those. And so mostly on so so tons of chances for you to just casually walk in and start creating, or you can sign up for classes. We usually do learn to classes on Mondays and Tuesdays, and then we have different events that happen every single week. So every Wednesday we have a soft craft circle called knit, hook, and stitch. So if you crochet, you knit, you embroider, you come, you hang out, you work on your project. And then we also will do clinics during those um meetups where we teach the basic skills like mending, how to fix um holes in your clothes, how to sew on buttons, um, how to darn socks, things like that. And that's every Wednesday. And then every Thursday we do sort of like a creative happy hour. Um, it's called, they're called Studio Socials. And so from four to seven, we pick one media to focus on during that week and we set up a couple stations, and everyone's just sort of hanging out after work over arts and crafts. Um, and then Friday we host an event every Friday that actually happens in that front part of the space, that counter I talked about, and that's called mural and mingle. And every Friday we paint the entire wall in the front of the space white. We pick out a color palette, we pick out a theme, and everyone just sort of contributes to that wall. And then we have this piece of public art that's up for a week, and then on Fridays we paint the wall white and we start all over again. I love that. Um, and then Saturdays are usually lots of people are coming in for those studio sessions that I talked about. People love to have birthday parties, baby showers, bridal showers, um, tons of parties in the space. Um, and if there isn't a party going on, um, sometimes we also do classes on Saturday afternoons. And then Sundays are for the garden. So Sundays we have our gardening series, we have a garden in the back, we teach propagation, we teach seed starting. Um, we also teach a class called cyanotype, which is a special type of um screen printing using the power of the sun. And so that's why it happens in the garden because we use sunlight to expose the film. Um, and then Mondays, Tuesdays, we go back to those learn to classes. So learn how to watercolor, learn how to leathercraft. Um, and then the rest of the week is sort of set up with these regularly occurring social events that give you a chance to play, but also to practice what you've learned.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Wow, that is just awesome! And it's adults, it's adults only. I just want to clarify. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

You know, it's it's it's for years. It's exactly. It's the way that we've been saying it is like we to be a sanctuary, we love we love young people, but as any parent of young people knows, sanctuary doesn't usually go with young people. Um, and so when we if we're trying to be a sanctuary for creativity and play, um, we are focused on people who are older. Um, and we want to open up to younger people. We really, really know that there's a ton of opportunity there too. And we thought it was really important to start with um grown-ups because we we deserve recess too. We deserve a break, and we really want to center that experience before we say, okay, bring over the kids too, because there are so few places that are really geared towards um giving adults a chance to play.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yes, especially with all of us having the anxiety and depression and loneliness. It's such a great way. Okay, question for you letter to your past self. Yeah. If you could whisper one sentence to Jesse, maybe on the day of your mom's funeral, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 42:40

And you will get through this. Um I remember I I had a there was a friend who really was there for me during that immediate time, and she had lost her mother when she was in her early 20s. And she she kept telling me that. She's like, I I promise, like it will get easier. And you don't, when someone tells you that, you don't believe them, understandably. And it isn't it isn't helpful at the time necessarily, but there's also something universal in having to sit with pain and having to experience the pain and you know remind yourself that it it will pass, and it doesn't mean that there isn't going to be more challenges ahead, but um there's definitely I think something universal in that reminder of breathe breathe through it and give yourself time, and um it will get better because uh I I definitely I it was hard for me to see how that would get better, how it would get easier. Um, and I have to I have to say as well, um, for me personally, the fact that my um mother died in 2019 and then we entered the global pandemic. In in a sense, that actually I think accelerated my grieving process because all of a sudden the whole world was grieving too.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

And so I actually I almost felt I was like, oh, I'm not, I'm not alone. Like every everybody, everybody's going through this now too. Um and so that definitely um gave me perspective and and and helped me in my healing process.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

I I totally can feel that and I get that with you because in my grief too, I it's hard, you know, you're you're going through so much. And and um, but then I've I learned, I realized, you know, we all have things in our lives, burdens or or things that we're getting through, and everybody is different. But you know, it's we all share that that thought, that trauma, you know, to try and heal, and we all help each other. And and I I I I totally get what you're saying about, you know, just uh you got to give yourself grace, you gotta give yourself time and sit with it, and and it'll never you know go away. You don't get over it. Um but you learn to live with it. You do, you do, you know. And if you could look forward, let's say 10 years to your future self, what do you hope that future Jesse is thanking you for today?

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Doing the doing the doing the hard things that you don't always want to do. Um it's it's especially going from such a corporate lifestyle to then working for myself and and working with my spouse. Um you you're like and and the first feeling I have is oh my god, I'm free. I'm I'm free. I don't, I don't, no one owns my time. I own my time, um, which is so empowering and so incredible. And I in many ways, it's a lot, there's a lot more to do. Um, and that is that is uh I'm doing it every single day for the the way that I know I'm going to feel in 10 years. Um, and I know that I will be so appreciative for the fact that I am hosting uh four back-to-back parties with over a hundred people on a single day. And oh, by the way, that's just Saturday, and then I do the same thing Sunday, and then on and on and on. So much fun, yeah, so much fun. And then I'm teaching leathercraft, and then I'm teaching crochet, and and then I'm teaching watercraft, and then and everywhere. And um, but uh I I know that we are I know it's just the just the beginning, and um we're just we're just getting the flywheel going. And um I I I know I will be I will be grateful, even though sometimes it it feels like what the heck am I doing? And I'm I'm uh all I can do is wake up every day and do it and uh do the best I can.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

And that's that's so true. That that's all you can do. Yeah. And I gotta ask, what's your wildest, pie-in-the-sky vision for spreading the Groves model beyond Brooklyn?

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Oh, I think Recess Grove is would do wonderfully anywhere that people want it. And we've we've we've met people from all over the country and all over the world who are asking um us how can we do something similar in our neighborhood, or when can you come to our neighborhood and um bring this this space and this and this experience. And so we want to be wherever people want us. Um that's my my you know pie in the sky vision is that uh not only is recess grove in in every neighborhood and community where there's a demand for it, but that the the spirit of um creativity helps us build a better world for for everybody. Um the secret to change isn't fixing the old, it's building the new. And that's what creativity allows us to do. It allows us to bring new worlds to life and um imagine new and different and better ways of doing things. That's the spirit of creativity. And um, I think the the world needs a lot more healing and a lot more creativity right now.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Oh my god, if your mom could walk through the doors tomorrow, what's the first activity you'd insist on doing together in that space that she inspired?

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I would love to watercolor with her. Um, I think she'd really love it, and I think she'd be amazing at it. Um, I love watercolor, I find it a really soothing and relaxing thing. Um, and I don't I don't like to draw or paint things in a photorealistic way. That's not my style of creating. I like to do more with what feels good, and so I end up creating these really intricate like shapes and lines and dots and circles.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

And I can feel that.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

I could see I could see my mom loving that too. Um, and I could see her teasing me for you know, some of the other like habits and things that I think are fun that she's, you know, like uh I love to crochet, and I could see her teasing me that it's like a grandma activity. Um, but I think she'd like it too. So I would love to play with her.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Oh my gosh. All right, well, I'm gonna lighten it up a little bit. Uh I'm gonna ask you some rapid fire questions.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Sure. What was your favorite playground game as a kid? Uh, probably the swings. I love the swings. I could see that. Uh, a song that instantly lifts your mood.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Hmm, Freedom by John Batiste.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

How about your Brooklyn comfort food go uh food go to your the go-to food you go to?

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Oh, yeah, there's this place near Recess Grove called the Commodore. It's a dive bar that's been around forever, and they have amazing fried chicken sandwiches, uh, which we get at least once a week.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

And one word that your mom used that you still hear in your head.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Oh, I have way more than one. Um she would always say that she wants like she would always make us uh a snickel, which was her word for snack, um, and noopy, which was her word for nap. And um, you know, sometimes when you do something that's kind of a little bit uh haphazard or thrown together, but it works, it's called a shmey. And uh I also have that in my head too. She had all these words that she made up.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Oh my god, and finish the sentence. Grief taught me resilience. That is so beautiful, and if listeners remember only one thing from your story, Jess, what do you want that to be? And and then will I also how they can reach you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

You're you're more powerful than you've ever even thought you could imagine, and that this one's really important that we do nothing alone. Um, I think part of the loneliness that we see comes from this false narrative of independence, that uh you have to be independent and do your do things on your own. And I don't that isn't true. We don't do anything by ourselves. Um we need each other, and um, that's part of the beauty of life that makes it worth living. So you remember your power and remember to lean on your loved ones to help you realize that power.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

I love that. And how do they reach you? Oh, you can reach me.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Please come to Recess Grove to hang out. Um, we're in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, 10 minutes from the Bedford L, the Metropolitan G or the Marcy Avenue JM trains. Uh, we you can find us online at recessgrove.com or on Instagram at recess and TikTok at recessgrove at recessgrove. And please follow along. And uh we say we encourage people to move slow and make things. Um and so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

I love that. And I usually I close out every show with a poem from my son, and he wrote one that I think is so fitting for Recess Grove, and it's it's called Camp. I gotta put my glasses on, I gotta read it, but I I think you'll feel it.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

I'm sure I will.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

It's he wrote, as I look around myself, I feel so compelled to smile and hug the vibrations and energy coming off others, causing a chain reaction that fractions the results of happiness. Happiness is different for everyone and anyone. But all people conjugate you, the source of power that people associate with love, kindness, smiles, and hugs. Even though there are so many bugs. Camp is a place where anyone can be anything, but most are true to themselves. Camp is a place where people's true colors are shown, where people accept others for who they are, not who they know. Camp is a place to learn from others and not just stick to yourself. The concept of acceptance is easy to grasp, but not to execute. Most people just reboot, go back to the lines that society draws for them. Most people can't comprehend how a few nice words commend a broken soul that almost feel off the deep end. Can't people know this? And now you do. Spread the word to stop the impending doom that so many souls see so soon. Crazy, right? Very beautiful. It's that feeling that you get. And I can't thank enough, Jesse. Thank you for joining us and sharing Recess Grove with us. I mean, I can't wait to take a class there. And I'm to our listeners, please stop by Rhessess Grove in Brooklyn or go to their website, recessgrove.com. And uh please feel free to share my episodes uh or like them, and donations are always welcome. And remember, SOS stories of survivors, where survival sparks the soul. Thank you and God bless. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.