The Imperfect Podcast

11. Hey Melbourne! This is for You! A chat with Jenn Donovan

• Wendy Lloyd Curley

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Recorded in July 2025, this interview is with my friend, Jenn Donovan. Jen has curated an incredible line-up of speakers for the inaugural Social Media & Marketing Conference in Melbourne in August 2025. With incredible speakers and a run sheet of topics that all small businesses need to handle, this is an event that you simply must got to! If you missed it in 2025, then look for it every year as it is sure to be an event that will inspire and inform you towards more success in your business.

Here's the link for more information and to register: https://socialmediaandmarketing.com.au/conference/

SPEAKER_01

Jen Donovan, it's wonderful to have you here on the Imperfect Podcast. Did you know that that's the name of my podcast?

SPEAKER_00

I did know that that is the name of your podcast. Thank you, Wendy, for having me. I'm excited to be on your podcast.

SPEAKER_02

I met Jen through the She's the Boss Networking. And She's the Boss was started by a mutual friend of ours. Jen. Yeah. Jules Brooke. And um, you know, for the listener, I love to connect the dots on how I actually met people. So I met Jules Brooke through a friend of mine named Stella Giannato. Stella thought that me when uh when I was in my candlelady business in a multi-level marketing world, Stella helped me with my brand. And she's a branding expert. And she met Jules, and Jules was doing how to handle your own PR. And so Stella said, Wendy, you could do your own PR around this and you could grow your business nationally. You need to meet Jules. So I took this session, this one hour how to handle your own PR with Jules, and we've stuck together ever since. It was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Jules is hard. Once you meet Jules, it's hard to uh you know not be great friends with Jules. She's a powerhouse for sure.

SPEAKER_01

How did you meet Jules?

SPEAKER_00

Jules and I did a program together probably going back 10, 12 years, I think, and it was called Speak Your Way to Success. So it was my journey to becoming a keynote speaker. I'd never been the sort of um, I grew up in a you know a strong Catholic family, but I was never that person who wanted to read the Bible uh, you know, at church or do the prayers of the faithful or anything. I was kind of like, Don't pick me, don't pick me. I was never on the debate team. Speaking was not my thing. And I think as I headed towards 40, I was kind of like, that's ridiculous. Get over yourself, go and learn how to speak in public. And yeah, we did this program together through a mutual colleague. Um, and yeah, that's where we met. And we've kind of been colleagues and friends ever since, and followed each other's journeys and supported each other's journeys ever since. So that's originally how we met.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. Another thing that uh the people who are listening to this podcast might not know is that you have your own podcast, and it makes me laugh every time I hear you speak because I feel like we're uh we speak all the time because of your podcast. Uh, would you like to tell people about it?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Thank you. And so my podcast is called Small Business Made Simple. I like to name things, you know, what it says on the box is what it is. That's the type of uh marketing I love. And actually, Wendy Leg Curly was on episode 260 of that podcast talking about strategic marketing. So um, unfortunately or fortunately, it's a little while ago now. I've just about to release episode 350. So if you do want to go to listen to Wendy's, it's a little bit of a scroll back, or you know, just go to my website and type in 260 and it'll pop up. But um, yeah, I've been doing that podcast for I think this is year seven. And um look, I I still love it, um, but I do have weeks, like it's a weekly podcast, and I have, admittedly, in 2025, found it a little bit more of a struggle to find um content and to, you know, do all the things around my podcast. But I have a spreadsheet that has all my podcasts, you know, 300 ep 350 episodes on it. And I threw it into Chat GPT a couple of weeks ago and went, I'm tired. These are all the episodes I'm doing. Can you inspire me? And he came up with some really good suggestions of topics, so it kind of reignited my um my passion again because I was starting to think, what else can I talk about? Um, but I get to have great guests on, just like you.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I love it. And for those of you who didn't catch all of the benefits just then, first of all, chat GPT, uh use it to inspire yourself to keep going. But I'm gonna give you human inspiration, Jen. Um, because for all of our listeners, uh that podcast covers so many things. And not only do you get good speakers on, Jen, but you also have little snippets where you will share with us planning ideas or AI ideas or social media ideas or just all of the elements of marketing that that some of them are below the line, some of them are above the line, but they help us to grow our businesses. And I really have valued all of the content that you provide. And the the short ones you do um are great because I never know what I'm gonna get. Is it gonna be a short one where it's just Jen giving me some great advice, or is it gonna be a long one where I'm listening to someone who has uh one one that really stuck with me was on virtual assistance. You uh interviewed a woman who owns a virtual assistant placement company.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, Amy Doah.

SPEAKER_02

That was uh you can let her know that I mentioned her on my podcast.

SPEAKER_00

I can, yes. She I'm not sure whether she still has a podcast. She did have one um type of thing, but that was a little while ago. That was 137. So that was quite some time ago. But yes, so I love to have guests on because I'm not an expert at everything. Um, and you know, I I want to make small business simple. I feel like, you know, I I'm the co-author of the big small business survey that we do every year. And the statistic that's continually grows, unfortunately, is the question do you find marketing overwhelming? And so, you know, statistically it's always around that 60, 70, mid-70s percent of people going, yeah, I do. So it's kind of like, I know it's overwhelming, but you know, if I can make it a little bit simpler with one or two tips, then that is my job done.

SPEAKER_02

All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, the reason that I invited Jen to come to this podcast today is because we had a meeting last uh Monday. We were talking about an event that she has coming up here in Melbourne in August. And what I want to do is I know that not all of my listeners are in Melbourne, nor may you travel to Melbourne for this event, but I do have quite a large and robust network in Melbourne that I would like to support uh in attending this, but let me explain why. Jen is a collector of very smart people. What she has put together is a uh a group of people that will help you to do exactly what she just said, make marketing simple, put it into bite-sized chunks, and also inspire you to grow your business in a way that you might not be inspired to today. Jim, uh, would you like to please tell tell us what this what this event's gonna be, how long is it, and when is it first?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, perfect. Thank you. So it's called um the social media and marketing conference, the 2025 Social Media Marketing Conference. It's on the 29th of August and it's at 700 Burke Street in Melbourne, which is right next to Eddie Had Stadium. So people might know where 700 Burke Street is, but most people have some idea of where Eddie Had is. So it's right next to there. I do um, I'm if I if I'm not proud of anything else, I am really proud of my network. I've really managed to pull together some of the most amazing speakers that I know I would like to go to a conference to listen to. A because I've heard them speak so many times, B, because they just have so much wisdom that always inspires me. And C, they're my friends. Um, you know, and I'm lucky to call them my friends. Unfortunately, Wendy Lloyd Curly has chosen to go overseas rather than come and speak. But maybe next year in the 2026 one, I can uh organise that timing even better. But it is, I I feel I felt like there just wasn't a conference that I really wanted to go to. Like there's a lot of digital marketing conferences out there, and and I and I don't want to put anyone else's conference down because running conferences are really hard. But you know, I went to a digital marketing conference last year, and um I was really keen to listen to the um gentleman talk about Google. Well, I think he lost me in the first three seconds because he was speaking to people much more advanced than what I was, so it was kind of like okay, so I'm not his target audience. I really have no idea what he's talking about. It was really high level. And then I go to other conferences that just to social media, um, as opposed to you know marketing and social media. So I was like, you know what? I think I'll put one together and uh see how that goes. And um, I I used to run conferences um in once a year, probably 12 years ago, maybe 10 years ago, in a previous partnership. We did run some. So I do have some experience. But um, yes, this is a bit new to be doing it all by myself.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I absolutely love it, and I love that it is uh agnostic to the type of social media because every every business has a different target market. Some people might be TikTokers, some people might be Instagrammers, some people might be Facebookers, but really I imagine that a lot of the focus is going to be on the content that's delivered and not necessarily the vehicle that it's delivered on. Um storytelling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was a really interesting um lesson for me because I I I really wanted someone to come and speak about TikTok because I feel like TikTok has such a great algorithm at the moment that it's easier to be found and go viral, or viral isn't really necessarily the whole point anyway, but it's easier to be found with the TikTok algorithm. So I put my feelers out there wanting someone to come and you know teach TikTok. But what I discovered, what I really wanted was someone to come and teach us about short form video, how to create short form video that could either be a real TikTok or a YouTube short. And that was a real lesson for me. I thought I wanted this, but when I read the application, I'm like, no, I don't want someone to show me, you know, you know, how to upload a video onto TikTok. YouTube can show me that, um, or I can learn that. I need someone to teach me, you know, how to do short form video really well and really quickly and really succinctly, so it's not overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. You know, I did take a wonderful course by a gentleman named Craig Rispin. I don't know if you've met Craig in your in your travel.

SPEAKER_00

No, but I've heard you speak of him before.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so he he calls himself a futurist, and I've seen him speak at several conferences over the last 15 years or so. And uh he he is uh a person thinking about what people aren't thinking about yet. Um and he did a presentation on artificial intelligence, AI, and intrigued me enough to get me to sign up to go to a course that he did, a four-hour course on AI. And he introduced me to uh a website, there's an AI for that. You know how there used to be there's an app for that?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Now there's there's an AI for that. And of course, AI tools are growing exponentially. And you have already spoken about one on this podcast. So just chat GPT, just the basic of basics, chat. I call her Chatty. Um, so Chatty and I uh talk very regularly, and and I do the kinds of things that you just did. Put in a list and say, Inspire me. Uh, give me the next 10 topics that I haven't thought of yet, and and Chatty will just do it for you. Uh the neat thing about AI, though, is it's also helping with us form that inspirational content that then can come from our hearts and our heads. Yeah. Will AI be a part of the conversation as well at the social media and marketing conference?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't think you could have a conference in 2025 without AI. So the amazing Tracy Sheen is coming to speak about AI. She's just about to launch her um first AI book called AI and U. So I can't wait to read that. Um, yeah, that's really spelled you. Just the letter U.

unknown

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, AI and U. Yes. So um, yeah, I know. I'm really looking forward to that. And Andrew Griffith is coming along, who um, you know, is I'm a bit of a fangirl of Andrew, so I'm so pleased he's accepted my invitation to come along. Um, but he's coming to talk about his book is um someone needs to be the most expensive, why isn't it you? So he's coming, you know, to close with, are you charging enough? You know, are you, do you realize your power? Do you realize your knowledge? And, you know, are you charging what you're worth? And I feel like that is going to be a beautiful way to wrap up everything they've learned to kind of look at their, oh wow, you know, am I charging what I worth I am worth? I feel like that is something a lot of business owners struggle with. Um, not everyone, but certainly, you know, um, I think it's going to be a beautiful way to wrap up the conference to talk about that.

SPEAKER_02

I actually read that book uh and it's on my bedside table because I've now decided to to reread it because it is so influential. It's such a good, good book to have. And I also bought a copy for a friend of mine who is eternally busy, works for himself, by himself, in a in a room, fixing and repairing and creating guitars. He's a luthier, uh he is world famous for what he does, and he's always got a waiting list, always busy, and and so much so that he had to leave my band. And I said to him, Are you leaving the band because you just you know you're always busy? He said, Yes. I said, You're not charging it. You know, I bought the book for him, and uh, I gave him the book, and he he's read it and given me feedback, and it's just amazing. Just amazing. All right, what else do we need to know about this conference? Because I really want people to go to it, and I am I'm devastated that I'm gonna be speaking in London um that week that you happen to be there, but I'm really delighted that uh the the people you've curated into this are are great. What can people expect to leave doing?

SPEAKER_00

That's a really interesting question. In fact, I had a phone call. I had someone reach out to email from email uh to me and said, you know, can I have a chat with you before I buy my ticket? Tickets are $199. And and you know, I know we are living in a you know a tough economic um, you know, situation at the moment. And and I, you know, really respect anyone who is going to come along and pay that to come for the day. But this lady was kind of like, you know, I'm just starting out, that's a lot of money for a startup. Um, can I have a bit of a chat to you? And one of the things that she mentioned, which, you know, again, I'm I'm a marketer by trade, so I'm always looking at the way people are talking and the words that they use. So she had been to a conference where she paid a little bit of money, I think it might have been $40 or $50, but it was a Sunday afternoon. So for her, she gave up her Sunday afternoon. That was worse than the $50. But she said, I sat there for three hours and people sold to me from stage. And she said, I walked away with lots of offers, but not much knowledge. And she said, I just want to know, you know, what can I expect from your conference? And I'm like, Well, I'm paying all my speakers to come. So, you know, there may be a small offer, but the goal that they have and the contract they have been given is that people walk away with some knowledge. Like, obviously, there'll be a lot of knowledge, and I'm very much, you know, you can't do everything. So it's kind of like I always have a thing at the end of my presentations, the 72-hour rule. Uh, you know, do one thing, do two things within 72 hours. Um, you know, after you attend a webinar or a conference or a call, whatever that looks like. So I understand that, you know, people will walk away with what they want, but you know, we're covering topics like um, you know, LinkedIn and Facebook and email marketing and AI and Google and SEO. Um, where I've got a lovely lady coming, Zoe Simmons, who I'm really excited to hear from. She's um, you know, a lady in a wheelchair, and she's coming to talk to us about how to be more inclusive in our marketing. And I feel like in 2025 there are so many small little things we could be doing to be more inclusive in our marketing. And I'm really excited to see the gems that she will give us or the gold she will talk about, because I feel like it's I I guess that's not allowed enough noise. There's, you know, it it hashtags allowed, um, you know, keynote keywords allowed, but you know, how to be more inclusive in your marketing from the little things from using you know alt tags, you know, to some really big things that I'm sure she'll share with us. So, you know, I'm excited to hear from her. And then we've got a couple of panels just to kind of break it up and do some QA so that the um you know the attendees the chance to put their questions to the people that are sitting on the panel and get you know answers for them. So um, yeah, I'm really excited. There's a marketing doing marketing differently um panel and also a social media panel.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Jen, I am excited. I'm excited for what that people are going to get out of it. I'm excited that it isn't an opportunity for people to sell from stage, it's an opportunity for people to learn from the people on stage. And it's an opportunity for people to network as well. How many people will be able to come to this event?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so 200 is my capacity. So I'm definitely hoping that it will be at capacity. That is the goal. I'm very goal-oriented, and that's the goal. So, you know, there there's lots of opportunities. There'll be long breaks, um, you know, for morning tea and afternoon tea and lunch to give you time for that. As well as, you know, the speakers, all my speakers are professionals. There will be time to, you know, chat at your table about X, Y, or Z, whatever the speaker has kind of said to you, Radio, have a bit of a chat with the person next to you about this. Like there'll be lots of time for that. Um, and you know that, and I know that probably 50% of the wisdom is going to be on the stage. The other 50 is probably in the table, or the people you talk to at lunch or something like that. Like it's really the wisdom, a lot of the wisdom sits in the room on days like this.

SPEAKER_02

All right, I have one last question, and it's going to be uh a really important one. Uh, what are the kinds of people who will best benefit from this? Are they marketers already? Are they small business owners, solopreneurs? Are they uh people who have small teams? Would would it be best for the team to come together? Uh really just the target market. Who who will benefit from this? Oh, and what industries? What what sort of industries would benefit? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, look, I I hesitate to a first of all say if you're in business, you're in marketing. So you are a marketer, whether you realize you are or not. You may not call yourself one, but if you're in business, you definitely have marketing as one of the hats that you wear. Um, and I hesitate to say everyone, but I really do feel like I I feel like if you had a big team, if you are a team of, you know, 10 or 20 or something like that, um, sending specifically the marketing team would be probably more beneficial than the business owner. Although, you know, I think of Andrew's um, you know, closing keynote, and I think, you know, is that what the business owner needs to hear to grow their business is about their own, you know, are they charging what they're worth, their self-worth, and things like that. So I feel like um, and certainly, you know, like I I've seen a lot of startups come through with tickets already, like, you know, people that are coming through other programs that I run. Um, there are some startups there. But I feel like if you look through the list of topics and you're like, email marketing has been on my list to do for the last two years, I feel the investment of $200 is worth coming to see that and then all the other things that you might learn. Or you're like, you know what, I've wanted to do YouTube for so long, or SEO has me stumped every time I produce all this content, it doesn't really go anywhere because I don't understand SEO. I think if you've got a specific thing that's been on your list, then come along and listen to that speaker, but be really open to everything else that you might learn as well.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. So thank you for listening, everybody. Thank you, Jen, for being here. It's been amazing to talk to you. I'd like to let everybody know that uh you need to go to an event like that realizing that your cup is not full. Your knowledge cup has space in it to learn something. So if you are already good at marketing, that's great. And I'm sure that you're gonna learn from some of these speakers and some of the people in the audience something that is going to be a game changer for you. And it will much more than $199 add to your business. Uh, that is for sure. A lot of people as well, uh, just think about the time investment. Uh, we're talking about the end of August. It's currently the end of June, and I'm going to publish this podcast right away and get it out to my team, especially my team in Melbourne. Um, what I'd like you to know is in two months' time, taking that day is going to be an investment in your business, an investment in the marketing of your business and consider it part of your strategic planning for the year. And maybe you tend to do your strategic planning at in January or you tend to do it in July. But I believe spreading your strategic planning out throughout the year in when you have opportunities like the one that Jen is presenting to you now, uh really, really brilliant. Now, some of you might be listening to this call, and I can't believe you're still listening to it, um, uh, after the event. You you might have come to this podcast episode 11 after the event's already occurred. And I'm here to tell you right now, Wendy Lloyd Curly is going to be one of the keynote speakers at the 2026 social media and marketing conferences in Melbourne. And I'm I'm gonna put it in my diary now, Jen. So you need to make sure to get me that data as soon as possible. It would be a delight to bring strategic networking into that conversation too.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I think it is probably one of the elements that is missing from the amazing topics that we are covering. But you know what? This is something I really want to grow. So in 2026, that sounds like a beautiful uh thing to book in for sure. And I will get you that date. Um, as soon as I uh maybe finish with 2025, we'll see how that goes.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I tell you, always leave them wanting more.

SPEAKER_00

So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02

Any final words from you, Jen?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, thank you. Um, thank you for the opportunity and um thank you for your encouraging words. I really feel like as business owners, sometimes we don't take the time to work on our businesses. We are so interested in the daily grind or you know, so attached to working in it. And so spending that day working on it, I think, you know, there's some gold certainly at the conference to come along. Um, can I give the link?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I hope we will put it there and then I'll also pop it into the show notes as you said.

SPEAKER_00

In the show notes. So my website is socialmediaandmarketing.com.au. And if you put slash conference at the end of that, you will end up on the conference page to see all the amazing speakers, and um, all the information will be there.

SPEAKER_02

That is absolutely marvelous. Jen Noneman, the author of Small Town Big Impact with 107 simple marketing strategies for regional business success. You have been interviewed on the Imperfect Podcast. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_00

You too. Thank you.