Mental Health Expert: Why So Many Relationships Are Failing Today ||EP 82

What’s good No Trollers
We’re back in the studio with a different kind of energy today.
We’ve got Nadia Ahmed Clinical Psychologist, Mental Health Expert, Couples Therapist, Founder of Mind Matters, co-host of Men Men Men… and yes, she prefers NOT to be called doctor 😌

From model to psychologist, we unpack her journey, confidence, what it truly means to be a woman beyond society’s expectations and we get real
From love, marriage, and therapy myths… to the uncomfortable truths most couples avoid.

We get into why some people don’t like therapy, whether love in long marriages dies and returns, rising divorce rates, religion through a psychologist’s lens, manifestation, childhood trauma, and the inferiority complex in Tanzania.

🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & everywhere you get your podcasts.
📲 Want BTS, guest drops & exclusive chaos? Join the IG VIP Chat—$3/month (Tsh 9,900)\So yeah we back with another Episode of No trolling podcast hope you guys will enjoy it!!

(Nadia's Socials)
Instagram - @nadiaahmedtz & @mindmatterstz

SHOUT OUT to pentagon rentals for the SPACE , if you a podcaster or you just enjoy making content, Pentagon rentals is where you're supposed to be

Filmed by: Rocky the mutator & jordan
Edited by : sean81jax

Chapters;
00:00 Trailer
02:04 fasting as a muslim
03:26 What nadia doesnt like about therapy
09:12 intro
10:44 Not taking life too Seriously
12:25 Nadia's modelling journey before her career
14:21 Building confidence in yourself
17:53 How to Deal with nervousness 
19:05 Practicing Therapy for over a Decade
19:58 Uncomfortable Truth couples like to avoid
24:00 Things wie do in the early stages of dating
27:48 What it means to truly be a woman Today
32:21 Gender roles when in a relationship
35:17 Common misconception in marriage
37:56 Adult are just big kids
39:43 Having boundaries instead of compromising in a marriage
42:17 When a couple is married for a long time
44:38 Being a Bonus mom
46:04 The power of the words with speak
48:23 Professionals in the country fear getting challenged 
50:47 Podcasting works like therapy
52:21 the common Age group as clients at mind matters
54:41 Nadia's hobbies
55:34 Nadia not liking statistics
59:48 The rise of Divorce rates in the country
01:05:16 Can a Couple recover after cheating?
01:12:17 Women are attachment beings
01:13:28 Tzee or Not Tzee (NT game)
01:15:55 Religion and Psychology
01:19:58 After the break  
01:22:47 The Birth of mind matters
01:28:52 What it means to be a Therapist
01:30:07 The No trolling Questions
01:44:15 Nadia's Dream
01:45:34 Outro & Shout outs

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Infidelity is very traumatic for the person on the receiving end. Literally, what happens in their minds, their bodies, is a trauma reaction because it is a it is an immediate, very real threat. But I believe you can rebuild and actually build an even stronger bridge after infidelity. There is not a lot of mental health professionals in the country. There's like a handful of psychiatrists, a handful of psychologists in the country. We have a ton of stigma. But people are suffering. One thing I don't like about them is that you can easily just go down that rabbit hole and never come out. And now everyone is a narcissist and everyone is toxic and everyone needs to be cut off. Because everyone's a horrible person. This game is not just about men chasing women. Yes, men do the chasing, but then the zebra needs to be there be like, bite me, and then run. Fix yourselves.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

You're traumatized. And spend a bag.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Nope. No troll. We ain't trolling, y'all. So sweet.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

What's up, No Trollers? Guess what? No trolling podcast is just partnered with T Z to bring you guys the coolest drink for all of y'all that are young at heart. I genuinely love the taste of the drink, and I'm pretty sure you guys are gonna love the taste of it as well. So make sure you grab yourself a TZ drink. Let's look good this season. Come on, you know what I'm saying? And also, 61% of you guys don't realize you haven't subscribed yet. So can I ask you for a favor before you dive into the episode? If you like and enjoy the conversations with having here every after two weeks, and you feel like you want to support us, hit the subscribe button. It's completely free. It's the easiest way to support the pod. And I'll genuinely appreciate that. And when you do that, I promise you, every time we upload, the episode is gonna be better for you. Me and my team are gonna be working tooth and nail to make that happen for you guys. Thank you. All thoughts, views, and opinions expressed on this podcast are entirely our own. They are for entertainment purposes only. I repeat, entertainment purposes only. We're not exposing, condoning, indicting, or telling you how to live your life. Now, enjoy the show. Is it uh fasting is something you usually do all the time?

SPEAKER_06 2:08

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Since like as a kid?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah.

unknown 2:12

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

It's it's mandatory.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Really?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

What happens if you don't fast though?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Sin upon sin. You think so? Yes. You have literally, if you can't fast for any reason, let's say you have health reasons, you would have to feed people who fast.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Feed people who fast.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, so basically either give equivalent amount of money for a meal to a fa to a person for the whole 30 days or all the days that you're not fasting. Or you make it up. So you you're allowed. If you're sick, don't fast. But it's like a debt.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Okay.

unknown 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

That you have to repair.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Intriguing. Have you ever not fasted and like started like feeding other people? Ever done that before?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I've never had a reason. Also, you have to have valid reasons of not fasting. Either you're like sick or you physically literally cannot fast.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

You can't do it. Like like also and stuff. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Like you're old and stuff, like old age.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Old age?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yes. Some old people cannot go.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Like a day without food? Quick question. What don't you like about therapy?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Hmm. That's a good question. I don't like the fact that sometimes we overindulge in our own pain and suffering in therapy. And even as a therapist, because that's part of the healing process, right? That we address what you're bringing onto the table. And we obviously don't know anyone else in your life. So everything is about you. So it gets so easy, because I'm in therapy as well. And I notice that I overindulge in my nonsense sometimes. And call my problems nonsense because I don't want to give them too much power. That's actually your bar right there. So I overindulge at times. And then it becomes this feeding loop of just like it's it becomes a cesspool of crap. I think that's yeah, that's the only thing. I think that's the one thing I don't like about therapy. Is that you can easily just go down that rabbit hole and never come out, and now everyone is a narcissist and everyone is toxic and everyone needs to be cut off because everyone's the horrible person. And I'm speaking from like not the therapist, but as a client.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Wow. Yeah. I've done that as a client.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Yeah, because like I've I've noticed like therapy isn't like a thing down here. You know, people usually don't make it's not normalized, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it's just like, oh, it's too white or it's too that. And I mean, bougie vibes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

It's changing. It's changing, huh? It's changing, but still the narrative is around, it's it's around. Around that, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's it it looks like a luxury, feels like a luxury. Um because it is expensive, it's not cheap. How much is it?

unknown 5:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Maybe we can say relatively, because you know you have listeners who are like on a different socioeconomic level and they're like, that's nothing. Um, that's something I spend when I go for lunch. Anyways, but I don't know. Most therapists, I think most clinicians, if I think around the peers that are in the same space as me. For around 150,000, 200,000 shillings per session. And then you have other spaces that charge you in dollars.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

How many hours is a session?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

An hour. Okay. 50 minutes to an hour. Okay. Some clinicians go for 45 minutes. Um, usually I don't find that enough. So at my practice, we go 50 minutes to one hour, and sometimes we kind of spill over the hour. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because it's not enough.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

One hour is never enough, huh?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yes. I think once people decide I will go to therapy and I'll like share my stuff, it's hard to kind of switch that off. And so you find someone, you know, it's like the first time for them actually having someone validate that your experience is actually valid, it's true, it's real, and it's it's, you know, it matters.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Yeah, validation of feel of feelings.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yes. Feelings of experiences, because you find someone coming and saying, you know, I've gone through all this, but everyone's just saying, you know, that's life. Well, yes, it's life, but it's shitty. And yeah, it would be nice if people said, Yo, that that was horrible that you had to go through that. And then later say, It's life. Because we all know it's life. We all know it's life.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Crazy. I I never thought I've never taken myself for a person to go for therapy, honestly. Yeah, have you ever? I've never, never tried it. I feel like I've never needed it, maybe. And the things I've experienced so far is just like, you know, man up. I like saying that. Just man up and just like, I don't know for other people, like for me and how I look at it. Whenever I'm going through something that's bad and sad, it's either I talk to my close people, or it's just I say I tell myself to like man up because there's this it doesn't look as bad as how I'm going through it right now.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

That's a good mindset.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah. Um, yeah. You don't have we don't have to go to therapy. You can like live your life without therapy. Yes. Don't put me out of your of a job, people. Like um, but we don't need to because everyone has their own level of resilience. Yeah. And ultimately what we build in therapy is resilience. Like you've gone through crap, but you can survive crap. Yes. Because we can't change crap. Like it it remains to stay, it stays the same. Your traumatic experiences, the pain you've gone through, the heartbreaks, no amount of talking about them, crying about them, um, cursing them is going to change them.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

True.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

But what therapy helps us with is like looking at it, okay, and seeing what are the lessons that I can extract from that, so that the next time I find myself in similar circumstances, I have better tools to navigate.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Ultimately, that's what therapy is. It's to help people gain tools, build their toolbox so that when they go and experience life, and life is part and parcel, you know, stressor is a part and parcel of life. Yeah, for sure. We will never avoid that.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

I mean, I feel like stress builds a man. It does. It does, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

And it can break them as a true, true, true.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Everything has a good side and a bad side.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

You know? You have some people, because resilience is what? It's like you're bouncing back from adversity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one who's never gone through anything that is like hard and difficult can claim to be resilient. Because the only way you become resilient is through going through stress. Through stress, through hardship, through pain. Yeah. Through all the icky stuff that we don't want.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

True. Guys, guys, ladies and gentlemen, what's Sat No Trollers? And today we got the in the studio today, we got the beautiful Nadia Ahmed. She doesn't like being called a doctor, so we're not gonna call her that. But Nadia right here is a clinical psychologist. Have you ever heard of that? I doubt that. She's a mental health expert. Uh, she also does therapy for kids and individuals. Founder of Mind Matters. I like to talk about that though. And also co-host of the Men Men Men, the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Where we tell men to not man up all the time. I'm joking. I'm joking. You must always be a man, people. Always be a man.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

What?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Come on.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

What do you mean? We don't always have to man up. What do you mean you don't have to always man up?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Sometimes you just have to be a softball of fluff and let people hold space for you.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

I mean, okay. You know, yeah, yeah. I definitely think if you always be like a man up like that, it's gonna be toxic. Yeah, you're gonna have like a toxic mindset of things. Ideologies, yeah, it's gonna train me, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Welcome to the Not Trolling Podcast. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

How you feel? I'm happy to be here. Oh yeah? Yeah. I I've I've seen I've seen your your um recordings, the sessions, I don't know what to call them. Episodes. Episodes! Oh my god, aren't you a podcaster? I know. What? I know, wow. I'm one of those people that doesn't take life too seriously.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Wow. You think people should live by that?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yes. And no, it needs balance. Some people kind of lose the plot and they don't literally take anything seriously. But you know, I think it's a nice balance because I do what I need to do, but I also don't take it too seriously. If someone says, Oh, you are funny and you sound funny, cool, that's my voice. I don't take myself too seriously, but I respect myself. So it's it's like a fine balance. It it it's it's a buffer. So that it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Balancing. How do you find that balance though? Is that a way of practice or how to it's through practice. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Um sometimes it's difficult, but I used to do a lot of yoga meditation at the beginning of my life. Um, not when I was born or anything, like beginning of my adult life. Okay. Um, and then transitioned into more spirituality, and it also speaks of balance and not taking yourself too seriously that do your part, and then the rest is really not yours to deal with. So it's it's it's helped. It's made life easier, to be honest. I don't I don't get offended easily, you know. Uh hardships just come and you're like, well.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Well, uh guys, I finally remembered to announce the episode earlier before. I usually forget to announce episodes until the end of the show. But yeah, this is episode 82, guys. 82. This is Nadia Ame, guys. She's a clinical therapist, uh, psychologist as well. And okay, she also does uh couples therapy, actually. Yeah, and uh we're gonna talk about that. But before we dive into therapy and stuff like that, she was a model. Yes, before please, what happened? Tell me, tell me the story.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Well, it's a funny story, but I think it's a nice story.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Yeah, you think so?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I I at some point thought I was Hannah Montana. I'm probably revealing my age.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Every girl thought they were Hannah Montana at some point.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

And when I was modeling, I would have to remove my glasses. I'm like, literally Hannah Montana. You know, she changes her hair, changes everything. Yeah, yeah. And I can't see anyone. Okay. So it was it was more so a journey to help me build um my self-confidence, my self-esteem. Um I was very, I think, shy around people I don't know. I was very, you know, extroverted with my friends, but people I didn't know, I didn't, I was very reserved. So it was an intentional thing for me to say, I need to put myself out there so that I can gain this confidence to be able to stand and be scrutinized by people. Okay. Um, because that's what life is. Of course. Um but also I used to be, I I think I still am. I think maybe that's what helps with the not taking myself too seriously. I used to be a tomboy in a way, I don't know if that's what we can call it. Very sporty. Tomboy. Um, majority of my friends were dudes, and I think my family is to blame because you know there's this narrative of women don't want the best for you. Girls are your enemy. Da-da-da-da. Boys will treat you like their sister.

unknown 13:53

I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

We went with that. Okay. Um so I I wanted to explore the feminine side as well. Because I felt like I was too much into my masculine energy. A very very tough, rough and tumble. I used to climb trees and things like that. That's too much. Okay. Um, so the modeling was also to explore that feminine side.

unknown 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

But um, yeah, it will it was fun days, fun times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Wait, speaking of confidence, do you feel like you're a confident person right now?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Um, that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

I think I want to say I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

You don't care.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

At this point in life, I'm like, you know what, this is it. This is this is me. Okay. Take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Um, I guess that's what confidence is, if we are to describe it. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

I feel like that's the proper definition of confidence. Just accepting who you are and dealing with it.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah. But in moments like if you're to describe it in action, I still have moments where I'm sitting there and my heart is like and I'm not feeling very comfortable in spaces. Um, but then you just push through.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

You know what has helped me um pass through uncomfortable places? It's just like uh since I know whenever I'm doing a show like this podcast or I'm doing I'm going out in public, I get super nervous. Like I'm sweating, I'm feeling heat. But I I just tell myself that you're gonna be alright, bro. Chill. Everything, just trust the process.

SPEAKER_06 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

I like telling myself that because I am an overthinker to some degree, and I tend to overreact, you get me, uh, when whenever it's something that's really close to me or important. Yeah, I tend to like hope everything goes perfectly. And for some reason, sometimes it might be a toxic, I'm admitting toxicity around the team or or around the people I'm with at the time. But I feel like it's more so just me trying to adjust as much as possible to make myself comfortable.

SPEAKER_06 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Because when I plan something and it doesn't go the way I want it to go, which is production life, literally nothing ever goes as planned. But it it tends to somehow trigger me in a way that's like I start getting nervous. But if one thing goes and the rest doesn't, I'm I'm at least go, oh, at least this one will. I'm hopeful. But if nothing did go as bad, I'm I'm gonna be nervous unless everything starts and now I'm calm, now I'm like winging it and stuff like that. You start to flow. So I feel like for me, confidence. I don't think I'm a confident guy these days. Yeah, ever since this year started, I've been more confident in myself and oh and in my craft. So I feel like it my confidence was built by um finally understanding what I'm meant to do. Yeah, so having a career path, I can see my career going a certain way. That gave me confidence. Um I'm building a team that gave me confidence. I have an income coming in, that's building confidence. I'm helping the people I love. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's building confidence. So all this stacking up and uh on one on one uh one on each other has made made me even more confident in myself as a man.

unknown 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

So yeah. That makes sense. Living in line with your purpose, because then you you you're you're doing the things that you were created to do, and so they flow naturally, and so there's less resistance and there's less energy that needs to kind of figure things out.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

How do you calm yourself down when you're like a little bit nervous or like so?

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I try to exaggerate the distress.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Delusion.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yes, okay. Like I make it worse. Whoa! Yeah, and then I'm like, did I die?

unknown 18:10

No.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Oh shit, that's actually Whoa, I don't think I can handle that. Honestly, if I think about it right now, making the situation even worse in my head. Yeah, whoa, that's gonna get me like high in my feet, and then I think it it might work or not.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Yeah, it might work. Because then you're like building the worst case. And then you're there and you're like, this is not even close to what I've conjured. Damn. Because the good thing is with our brains is it conjures issues and then it tries to problem solve or if you've trained it enough.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

You know? And so you find that you're thinking of the worst case scenario, but then you're also thinking of a put possible solution at the same time. Okay. So when when reality comes in your life, well how long you've been.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

What? Nah, it's all good. Three people? Ah long have you been um a couples therapist?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

So I would say over some seven years. Oh yeah? Yes, I've been practicing for over a decade. Okay. But initially I was not seeing couples. Um and then I did additional training. The more comfortable I felt with working with individuals, I think it became it also became evident that individual problems often in our society are couple problems too. You know, most people come in and their complaint is a spouse or a partner or a family member. So like, well, naturally we would want both people here working on their nonsense.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Okay. What do you think um is an uncomfortable truth couples like to avoid?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Oh, that's a tough one. There's many things. But um I think ultimately is the fear of being rejected by your partner. Not rejected in the sense that I don't want this and it's over, but rejecting your innermost like desires, wishes, your flaws. Okay. Because most people come into therapy and you either you'd have one partner saying, you know, they're messing up in one, two, three ways, fix them. Okay. Um or this isn't working out because they acting in this way. So we're constantly trying to fix each other, yeah, but we're not accepting each other. And so the issue is actually both ways. So what I'm noticing, like subtly, it's this sense of they're not going to accept me for who I am. And so you find a lot of couples become more performative. Um, and I think at some point it breaks and they end up in therapy. But even you find some in therapy are performative. So there's this deep sense of wanting to be accepted. Um but in reality we're different people. And so my flaws are probably your strengths, and so you probably don't understand why is this a flaw. Yeah, you know, and vice versa. So it sounds very simple when you say it. It sounds so simple. It's like cracked couples' problems, but human condition.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yes, you know, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

You know, we're not. We're not, and there's obviously so many factors coming in. Your own childhood, your own parents, what you've seen and observed, and what you the narratives around relationships.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Do you feel like there's standards for healthy relationships?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

There are. So they've been well researched. Oh. Right? Um, but ultimately, I think being able Just uh show compassion.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Be nice.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yes. Okay. Do you know why relationships with like people who are not your primary person sometimes work? Like people are very nice to like, I don't know, their receptionist or you know, the co-worker. It's because you're like, ah, they had a bad day today. You're able to kind of give them the benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

But we don't do that for our partners. It's like I think, and it's both ways. So that so over time, I think initially you start when you're dating, you give each other benefits of the doubt, and then you get comfortable. But then with that comfort comes the sense of, well, then now you should know better. Right? You should know me better. Um and that benefit of the doubt becomes more um like an expectation rather than a gesture. Right? Um, no one is entitled to just have people be kind to them. And I think that's why we reciprocated, because we feel like you've done me something good.

SPEAKER_05 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Right? But in relationships we expect it. It becomes like an expectation. You have to consider me. And then the other person is thinking the same thing. And so now we are both in this corner thinking you have to consider me, and you are thinking I have to consider you, and now we have all this gridlock. And none is happening, but we're here. Everyone's in their corner. Wow. You know, and some some people pretend they wear masks and they go about their lives with the resentment, and it festers like some disgusting thing. And others can't, because you have some people who really wear their emotions on their not even their sleeve, just on their face. And so there's so many arguments and fights and turmoil.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Um I had a I had a like a on my last episode, I was talking to a girl and I was telling her that usually when when a guy is trying to get a woman, right? They usually um do much, you know? So I can get this woman. And sh and she's saying, if you start doing too much, you better maintain that too much as the relationship goes on. I'm like, that's unrealistic. Like you can't, I can't give you the same like the the things I I was doing just to get you across the whole relationship.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

24 7, 365 days.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

And and she's like, well, well, some people can. I'm like, that's unrealistic, though. Yeah, we didn't end up having a conclusion, we just agree to disagree. But I wanted to pick your mind on that. What do you think? Like, should girls or women expect the same things the guy was doing, or is there a compromise?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Okay. So we have to first start with women also do a lot of things when they're trying to get the attention of a dude.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

Okay, attention of a dude, okay? Right? Good phrase.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Because ultimately, biologically, what's happening is your entire system is come conspiring to build a bond.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

And that's why it's easy for the man to do all these gestures and things, and it's easy for the woman to do all the nice things that we also do. Yes, I agree. Right? Um, and to be polite and kind and respectful, you know. I think many men complain, you don't respect me once the relationship is like solid. Because at the beginning, we're trying to also put our best feet, you know, in front.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

So we are all trying to do better in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

We're all trying it this game is not just about men chasing women. Yes, men do the chasing, but then the zebra needs to be there being like me, and then run, but not too fast. Okay. So we can't just say, because then we're creating an imbalance. Then we're saying men do all the work, and that's not fair. What are you doing? Okay. Right? Because a relationship is bi-directional. Relationships are not one way, it won't be a relationship. Can't just be giving.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Right? And so to start, if we can both agree that we can both maintain that, then yes, but in reality, you're not doing it alone. Your biology is helping you. And then once the bond is created, now we're familiar and we know each other, the chemicals go back to normal. Okay. Because we b we we function in homeostasis. Okay. Balance. We function, our bodies function in balance. Right? And so once we go to that balance, our normal habits and tendencies start to emerge. Okay. And so that's why you see he's not calling me 24-7. He's not waking up at 6 a.m. to say, baby, wake up. Because he's now going back to people. Yeah. He is.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Yes. So they shouldn't expect nobody should expect the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

No. Okay. Right? You just expect someone to be kind. I think. I'm just obsessed with kindness because I think it's the solution for all problems. Yeah. Yeah. And compassion. But some some people take it for granted though. Yes. And that's where you draw the boundaries. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Because I've been a victim of being a people pleaser because uh I was just trying to be kind, thinking, oh, kindness is the way. I mean, it is. It is, but it has limits. It has limits to how you can you can go.

unknown 27:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

But I feel like I that's how I I like to say I'm not a nice person, I'm a good person.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Because good is it is not, you know, it it it's consistent.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah, it's it's not forcing yourself exactly. Yeah, technically.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Speaking of of you know, women, I do I want you know I want to know in your perspective, what do you think uh it means to truly be a woman?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

These are very existential questions. Um I I feel like probably every woman might have a different response. Maybe we might have a uh common theme, but what it truly means to be a woman is In today's world. In today's world, yeah, oh it means many things in today's world. But ultimately I think it's just feel safe.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah. And I think that's where the noise comes with keep up with what you were doing at the beginning of the relationship because it made me feel safe. It made me feel wanted, it made me feel pursued, it made me feel like I am the center of your universe, and that ensures my safety and my survival because then that eliminates all the other women who are my competition. Okay. So ultimately, as women, I feel we just want to feel safe. Nowadays, we chase the bag because it gives us safety. Financial freedom gives you choices. Yeah. I can choose to exit a toxic relationship or marriage, you know, because I can actually afford my entire life. Whereas, let's say back in the day where women weren't working, you your livelihood depended on the man that was you know providing for you. Right? But today, in today's world, we also work and we start businesses and build the damn thing because it also gives us safety. Our partners gives us give us safety because there's a sense of I'm woman enough because obviously this man is attracted to me. That must mean I am a woman and uh an unattractive one. Um I'm safe in the ecosystem in society. Okay, right? Um, I have someone who will we men are protectors and providers and maintainers of women. Yes. And so look at all those words. They all allude to this one needs to be cared for, secured.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Yeah, yeah. I feel like, yeah, women are definitely meant to be taken care of.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

I think most of the time women lose their shit when they don't feel safe. Some many of us, I don't know if all of us can identify it that I am actually right now in this relationship not feeling safe. We just look at all the things you're not doing or you're doing that are making me not feel safe, but we don't point out or speak of, you know what, I actually don't feel like don't feel safe.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

And do you think women should point that out more?

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I believe so. Because I think naturally men want to protect.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

So if I say I don't feel safe, I don't feel, you know, secure in our relationship or in our marriage, then I'm not attacking you.

unknown 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

I'm actually just pointing out how you feel how I'm feeling. And so it gives you an opportunity to look at yourself and say, okay, what am I not doing?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

You know, that I can start doing to make my woman feel safe and feel self-refecting basically. Yes. Because even I know men naturally know when their woman feels safe, she's more feminine. And the more feminine she is, the more she gives and she caters and she cares and nurtures. Exactly. Yeah. So it's actually a bonus for men to like decide and protect.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Absolutely. Like, I feel like for me, I always believe that uh a man is completed by a woman in their life. And you you you'd come to discover that um a woman tends to give a man peace.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Uh this sense of clear-minded brand, because like it's so it's so good coming back home to a beautiful woman, or like it's just it's some sense of some sort of comfort you get, you know. And and I feel like that also makes sense for kids. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

I mean it is because this thing people I don't know if it's people, it's a statement or something people say that you give woman something and she multiplies it. Yes. Right? Um that applies within the home, right? Like what you just said right now, a man can come and have the most horrible day, get home, and meet her, his, you know, his woman who is stable, grounded, automatically the weights fall off the minute he he enters the home, right? Yeah. Kids are nurtured by the woman in the home. True. Right? Um we're just, I think it's our divine, we were we were given a divine superpower to be able to care and nurture and you know take care of people. Yeah. You know, um, and I know most most women will probably be like, but he comes and he is the chaos, and that's why da-da-da-da, and now I multiply the chaos. Do you know which is true, but I think that's where becoming more self-aware and saying, okay, okay, I'm not feeling safe. You're not, you know, you're not making me feel safe in the home rather than just going with the chaos. Because it's easy to get sucked into the into a man's chaos. Yeah, you guys have very strong energy.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Right? Equally, women, we have very strong energy, but I think men's energy tends to overpower. Okay. I think that's why we say feed in men feed into the woman. And that's why when you take care of her, you're doing things to create an you know, the environment. Wait.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

And you're self-low key?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yes. Okay. Right? Um, you're protecting to create safety. When she feels safe, she gives you good energy. So it's ultimately the man, and that's why the man is the leader naturally. Yes, we are leaders as women. Um do you want to? Good question. Do you want to be the leader though? Or is it just, you know, this toxic culture that we're now like sometimes because it's not our natural. I don't know how women feel, but I feel like it's not our natural. Like, I run a business and I have a team that looks up to me, but I at some point get to my husband, I'm like, how do I fix this? I don't want to do this. And he's like, no, you can't do it. Okay, how do you want us to do it? And he will help me problem solve. Yeah. That's men are great at that.

unknown 34:02

True.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Right? Because you're natural leaders. You act from logic, we act from emotions naturally, like anatomically. Okay. Right? Not that men don't have emotions, but we're just wired different in that. Absolutely. We're definitely. You know, we're driven more by our emotions. We make sense of, we lead with our emotions. Okay. That's why female leaders are a lot more empathetic. And if you get a female leader who wants to like be more masculine, she's not very successful. People don't like her. She's a toxic one in the office.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Because she stepped out of herself. And now she's not herself. And she doesn't like herself. And she even doesn't like what she's doing. Wow. And she's probably not feeling very well physically or psychologically because she stepped out of herself. So even in leadership, there is space for nurturing. Because people need to be heard. Why aren't you able to do your job? Or you know, I've not been feeling well. How about we sit down, tell me what's what's happening? And then boom, they're able to do their job because you gave them two seconds of your time.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Yeah. Um, have you ever sat with a married couple on a session?

SPEAKER_00 35:14

A few, a couple many.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Oh, what's the common misconceptions of marriage, you think? Uh there.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

That you have to compromise.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Whoa, what? Yes. So you shouldn't compromise? No. Whoa. No. Please elaborate.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Compromise leads to resentment.

unknown 35:36

What?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Because ultimately what's happening is naturally life, life is all about like yin and yang, like polarity.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Right? Night and day. Balance is important, yes. But why do we say balance? Because there is polarity. So we need to bring things together. But what happens when in marriage, usually one person takes the baton of compromising.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

So for most couples that I've seen, is one feels. And again, sometimes it's not true. Sometimes it's they're both compromising, but in our heads, we're like, I am compromising the most. And so this is unfair. And so this is pointless. And then you get to couples therapy, and one is like, I don't want to do this, but he's dragging me or she's dragging me. Or they don't overtly say it, but their actions say it. And so couples therapy becomes like complicated and becomes about breaking and unraveling their own stuff. Usually when I work with couples, I get them to do their own individual therapy so they can figure themselves out. You can't come and work on two heads if you don't understand even one. How are you gonna do that? Most people don't know what they want. I'm just getting into this couple's therapy. Yes, I want to fix this marriage because that's socially acceptable. We don't break marriages. Our even our our our government, our law system doesn't want to break marriages. You go through like several court cases until the judge decides that, okay, I think this marriage is done. Right? Um, most religions like Catholics cannot until the Pope approves, right? Something like that.

unknown 37:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Muslims, we're lucky. We're lucky. The guy can just say, I don't want you. And you're good.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Yeah, Muslims can even uh marry more than one wife, no? Yeah. If you have the money for it, though.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yes, and if you have the heart for it, if you can love them both equally. It's impossible. It's it's it's there for a reason. God, God, God is intelligent, like is the most the most intelligent being. But that clause was put there on purpose. Because the creator knows your heart is not capable of handling of loving people equally. Even parents don't love their children equally. They lie if they tell you they do, they have favorites.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Um my parents' favorite is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I have come to accept that I am not. It's okay. Is it okay to ask them? Like it's not okay. You're putting them in a spot. It's very hard. Because they also don't want to break your feelings, you know, hurt your feelings, break your heart. And so they probably won't tell you. How do you know? Like if you're an observant person, you will know. Just observe your parents, observe their face when you walk in and your other siblings. Observe them when they're speaking about you. You know, observe what they say to you. And you but but don't do it. It's just it's too much pressure. It's too much pressure on your you know, on your own self. Um, if you can handle it, great. You know. Is that the fear of being neglected? It is, and survival.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

We're all, you know, adults are just big kids.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

We we adults are just big kids.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

We're just big kids. Okay. We want the same things kids want, you know, to feel safe, to be taken care of, to get attention, to feel love, you know. So we want the same things. Um, and even as we grow up with our parents who still want the same things. Because they were our primary template for survival, that they they you know, they ensured our survival.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

So uh as we were talking about the misconception in marriage, yeah. Uh so uh if people shouldn't compromise, what should they do instead?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

They should speak and they should have boundaries, but not too harsh.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Boundaries in a marriage.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

In a marriage. Explain. Because ultimately we're still two separate people.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

True.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

With two separate histories, yes, two separate separate narratives, stories, belief systems. It's a lot of differences. Yes. And coming together and just expecting that the two of you will jolly and you're now one. You're one in the eyes of God. And maybe when you're in bed, you become one. One, yeah. But you are not one.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

You know, you want different things. You might have similar values, and that's that that becomes very important. Marry someone who you share values with because it makes it easier to deal with now the difference.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

Differences, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Um, but ultimately, I believe in marriage, what you should do, yes, have those boundaries, meaning know what you know. Know your your your heart knows, know your lines where you're like, you know, this I can tweak. Um what you want. Respect the other person. Because boundaries are I respect myself and I respect you. And if you're unable to respect me, I will, you know, lift the boundary. Boundaries are not don't speak to me like that. If you speak to me like that, I'm going to walk. That's a boundary. Okay. It's something you do, not the other person. Um, but in marriage, not just boundaries alone, because then it it can easily become hostile. Okay. Right? We need to learn how to navigate through when your partner, because we're not always at 100% when it comes to mental energy, physical, emotional, um, psychological. Yeah. And so when your partner is at 90% and the other is at 20, then the 90% kind of does the heavy pulling. And vice versa. Right? So when your partner is not acting right, then you step up and try to help them navigate. And once they're back up, speak about it.

unknown 42:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Uh sounds easy. It does. This is why you come to couples therapy. Call me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

That's a good promo for yourself. Oh, so question. Um, I've come to notice that sometimes when a couple is married for a really long time, right? They tend to have this tendency of maybe not loving each other for like six months or three months, and then suddenly the love comes back again. Like exciting dates, kissing, public, and it just goes away again after some time, comes back. What's that? What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Um, I have no clue. Whoa. Okay. It's probably they found a rhythm. Because also the thing with balance is knowing, like, okay, maybe this is a busy season. Right? And if you find a system that works for you, good on you. Because these fights are not ending until you die. Or you divorce or something, or break up and make sure you don't have kids. Because if you break up and you have kids, then those fights will continue until you die. Facts. It's just in a different in a different way, but you're not gonna fight about oh, you said you're gonna pick them up at twelve, it's now four. You're still fighting. You know. Um, but I think I think it's it's it's a rhythm, it's a system. I if it works, it works. Um but I from my experience and from the training and the work and the research, it's not healthy. Because it's kind of like you're love bombing each other, and then there's a crash. You're love bombing and you're devaluing and you're love. Bombing and you're devaluing, and you're love bombing and you're devaluing. And so now at some point, the value of that love is depleted. And so we're just going through these motions, but I genuinely like something here is changing. And when that happens, it makes it easier to continue with this nonsense rhythm. And I call it nonsense because it is. You know, love is not seasonal. You don't choose that I love my partner now and then I don't love them the next day, even when they're being shitty assholes.

unknown 44:36

Right?

SPEAKER_03 44:36

So that makes sense. Do you like kids?

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I love kids. I don't have okay, I I have bonus kids, but I don't have any from my womb yet.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Bonus kids. Yes. Please explain.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

So um my husband had kids prior to meeting me. Okay. Yeah. So his kids are my kids.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

Okay, bonus kids. Bonus kids.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

I don't like the term, even my kids don't like the term stepmother. Because one of one of my daughters said to me that you're not like, you know, Cinderella's stepmom. I'm like, hell yes, I'm not. That was a witch. She was horrible. Yeah. Um, so bonus mom works because they get an extra mom. They have their mother, right? And that's like an amazing bond. Right? That you never want to go away. But then they have an extra mom. It's like when you go to the supermarket and then they tell you, oh, you've purchased X amount. You get this. And you're like, I didn't expect it, but you get another one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why the bonus mom that, you know, they get extra.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

I I like how you you you you're like kind of like situated in yourself in a ways you don't want to be called in certain ways to just maintain that vibe. Like, like how you don't like to being called a doctor. Now you don't want to be called a stepmom, you want to be a uh what's it what's it bonus mom? Bonus mom. Like, what's up with this way of language carries a lot of meaning.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Okay. How we speak is very important. The words we choose to use are very important. They invoke different, you know, sensations, different emotions, and they carry a lot of different meanings. So the minute I say I'm a stepmom, automatically, someone, even my daughter, in her head, some her friend told her, Oh, you have a stepmom. And automatically in her head, Cinderella's mom popped up. And she's like, No, that's not my bonus mom. Like, she's not like that. And it was random. She just came, she's like, You're not a stepmom. I'm like, No, I'm not your stepmom, I'm your bonus mom. Yeah. You know, and she explained to me. But that's the power of words, right? That it invokes sensations and feelings and memories, and there's so many things associated with it. Right? When you say doctor, there's already this distance that's created, like you're superior, and that's in our culture. Usually the doctor's just like, I know, and you don't.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

But in essence, I know fuck all. When you come into my office, you are the expert of your life, and I am learning. I'm the expert in psychology and clinical psychology and therapeutic treatments, yes. But ultimately, those mean nothing if I don't understand your life. And you are the expert.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Of your own life.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yeah. Right? Because if that was the case, then everyone else would have the same story. But each person I need to tailor, tweak, adjust. You know, I need to pick the right tool, the right techniques, the right therapeutic approach. Because we're not the same. We all have different stories. So even the word doctor for me creates a divide. And so people are already thinking, oh, you know. You know more. No, I don't know. I don't know anything.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

I'm just here. I'm a listener.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

I'm just listening. I'm like your co-pilot, and I'm like, whoa, do you see that elephant crossing the road? You see that plane coming up. Oh you know?

SPEAKER_05 47:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Oh, that there's a left turn there. Do you see it? You can choose to go, you choose not to.

SPEAKER_05 48:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

We're going. Oh, you're driving towards a cliff. Yeah. Wow. Do you see it? You're falling. Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

I'm jumping ship by. But you that's actually a funny way of looking at things, you know. It makes it takes attention out of the people who you attend or your clients.

unknown 48:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

And I've come to notice a lot of professionals in the country tend to not like speaking for some reason. They they they they just like they're very conserved. They're like they feel like speaking is like, oh, what would my peers think? They're always feeling like they're they're being watched by their peers and they'll get criticized and they'll lose their jobs. Why is that so?

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Um people don't like to be challenged. Okay. Especially experts. Experts who are not like expert experts. Oh, okay. Plot to it. Your artistry, your your your your craft, then you get more comfortable. And anyone can throw anything at you and you like easily you can swerve that purple or you can break it apart or you can mold it. Wow. But when you don't feel very confident in your own craft, then we avoid spaces where I can be challenged. And when I'm challenged, then I'm gonna get exposed. And if I get exposed, then I'm losing my shit.

unknown 49:38

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

I guess we just need to be more confident ourselves, man.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yes. And also, people don't know. I could be lying to you about all things therapy. And you don't know. People don't like to read. And and there's therapists out there who you can judge me, you probably don't know. Right? And that's fine, because you can't like know everything. Yeah. Right? And also, people who don't like to be challenged, you you're setting yourself up to just wilt and deteriorate and just your knowledge dies. Yes. Yeah. You're not improving. Like, I would rather someone comments and says, oh, Nadia, that's a lie. And I'm like, oh, let me figure this out. Now you've given me a clue. Maybe I didn't think it was a lie. Maybe that's what I believed. And from my little work or research, I thought it's the truth. But someone coming in and challenging it makes me research more, dive deeper, become more expert, you know, in that space. So we grow from being challenged.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

I'm a sole believer in getting challenged. And this is why I love podcasting. It challenged my mind, you know. You're speaking to like many, many different people. Yes. From different fields. Exactly. It builds this open mind, you know. I mean I've grown smarter, like more attentive, a better listener. Like I can reason my thoughts even more better compared to how I was before the podcast. This podcast is literally building me, guys. Honestly.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

You're expanding your perspective on like life. Because like imagine I come here and I say women and men, you know, both have to do the hard work. And then someone comes here and says, men must do the hard work. So it's like you you're you're absorbing all these perspectives. Yeah. Um kind of like what we do in therapy. Like I absorb so many people's life experiences. I'm a therapist. You know? You're talking about because you literally Okay, you don't have the properties of therapeutic techniques. Yeah, yeah. So if he's not a therapist, don't come and tell him your problems. You can if you want to, if you are gonna gain problems. You know, exactly. Um but what you're doing, all the skills that you're using, yeah, are used in therapy. We need to listen, we need to be open to hearing people out. Yeah, um, you gain so many perspectives. I think I have there's so many mistakes I'm avoiding in life because my clients have made those mistakes in their lives. Or now, if I make them, I make them consciously. I'm like, I know this is going to lead to this. And my horns come out, I'm like, Yeah, we do it.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

Um, speaking of age group, uh, which is the most popular age group that comes in your office as a client?

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Millennials.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Millennials. Is it necessarily nine to five warriors? No, no, just millennials.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Millennials are like cool.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Really? We're so cool. Okay, why are millennials cool?

SPEAKER_00 52:41

We're so, how do I put this? Like multifaceted.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

I think like if you look now at millennials are parenting differently, millennials are trying things differently. Yes, the Gen Z's are like more creative and stuff, and you're bolder, but we're like cautious and bold, and we we try to wear different hats, you know, and we're I think we're that generation who the traditional people that come before us, I don't know what they're called. I forget. The Gen X's are like, no, I know better. Yeah. And then we have the Gen Z's who are like, we're the most creative and we know how to do it. And we're like in between, and we're like, oh shit, okay. We just we just forget We're not taking that too seriously. We take some from the Gen Z's, the Gen X's, and we're like, okay, this feels like it works, you know, and now we're like some of us are in our 40s, but we're still at Wavovie and the tables, you know, and not letting age us. Most of us think we're 21.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

That's actually really funny, man. Wow, millennials are cool. I guess so. They are like uh my brother's uh my brother's uh yeah, my brother's a millennial, but he just got married, has one kid. Yeah, yeah, he's winging it, you know. I remember I used to see him do trends back in the day. Like, you remember the Dougie? Yeah. Uh should do the Dougie, you know, like ah, what is this guy doing? But yeah, at the time he was really into like like trends and stuff like that. Millennials really like the trends back in the day. You remember Vines? Yes, and no.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

I've heard of them, never been, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

They're like these kits people make just as for comedy.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

You're not into comedy?

SPEAKER_00 54:38

I am. I I I like to laugh.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

What what what what are your hobbies you that you've built on your for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Eating.

unknown 54:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Sleep. Wow. Um my husband. Wow. Um I like to do yoga. I read. Okay. Um but ultimately I just do anything that feels fun.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Okay. You know you like being fun.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

I like being playful. I think playfulness makes you youthful.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

Um tapped into your inner child things. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

We're all big kids.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

Just big kids. Big kids. You know?

SPEAKER_00 55:23

I I see people taking themselves too seriously, and I'm like, I know you're not like loving the fact that you're wearing that suit right now. But it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

Do you believe in the statistics?

SPEAKER_00 55:37

I do. I yeah, I do. I don't love them, but I do. Because they don't always they don't always paint the reality, but they at least point us towards the right direction.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Okay, so okay, okay. Um so when it comes to statistics, right? Should they pay fully to a statistics or there's something else they should be keen about?

SPEAKER_00 56:08

So we should also look at the subjective experiences. Right? Because most of the time statistics are numbers.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

Okay. They are numbers.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

They quantify, they even quantify the subjective experiences. Okay. Right? So you can have quantitative um qualitative research studies that take people's experiences, subjective experiences, and you have those that just focus on numbers. Okay. When you pair the two, usually this the research is more superior when both are considered numbers and people's actual feelings and experiences. Um but ultimately, even then, we still need to look at it from a broader context of you know the current reality. Because it's just research or stats are just a snapshot of the situation. They are not the entirety.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Because even the re let's say the statistics on loneliness. I think the World Health Organization published that Africa is the loneliest continent. Like has the most loneliest people. Whoa. Africa. And we we we are the ones who have a collectivistic culture, right? Um and I'm not disagreeing, right? But because you can be lonely sitting amongst a hundred people. You know, you just don't feel you don't fit in or you don't feel included, but uh but you're here sitting with everyone. But also that research didn't really consider all parts of Africa, all groups in the different countries, right? It was a snapshot. It was the people that did participate. So it can easily be skewed. What if I took a population from, I don't know, trying to think of Tanzania. Let's say you you go to the Puani region, the coastal region, and then go up, right? As well. They have different cultures, different dynamics, different ways to relate. Maybe it's let's say I forget the name. The region where there's a lot of mines and stuff, right? Everyone's like busy in their own corners, or even we're scattered because everyone's working somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

Busy on some state.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Or their children have left, come to Puani region, the coastal. And so you can't say that if people in the coastal region, their stats report that they're more social, more outgoing, more you know, compassionate, that means everyone in Tanzania is. Because then if you take a snapshot of there, you might find a different picture. Right? So yes, research is important, stats are important, but they are a snapshot.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

So take it with a pinch of salt. Take it and factor in your own perspectives.

SPEAKER_03 59:17

Factor your own experience. Because you as you said earlier, you're the you're the master of your own life. Exactly. Expert, actually. We're all experts in our own lives.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

This is what you guys do.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

I learned. Is it this or is it this? I don't know. Is this? Is this I I don't know. They must teach. I think it's this. Is this? I I I believe it's this. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 59:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Okay. We're all experts. Um, have you noticed that the divorce rates are increasing in Tanzania?

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 59:52

What do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I think the reason is the world is changing, but we're sticking to beliefs of the past, especially in marriage. The minute you get married, there is these expectations that are like Stone Age.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

You know, I think that's where the lady came with the whole you must continue with the same energy. Um, because all of a sudden we're equals, we're asking for each other's opinions, and then we get married, and suddenly, Neil, go bring me the food. You know, I'm the one who knows best. You can't like transition like that, friends. Bring me the food is crazy. You know, like go bring me food. No, like we're both working. Hello, right? Um that's where the boundaries were supposed to be coming in. But I think the divorce rates are higher now because of that. It's there's a lot of expectations, and a lot of these expectations, they're not completely unrealistic, but they're askewed. They're not factoring in the reality. I don't want to blame men.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:12

Please don't, please don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

But we can blame men too. Um, and women, but because then you have other women who are like very in their feminine energy, and they're really not budging with nothing, right? And that's meeting the man who is already in his masculine energy, and now we have two men in the relationship. Not gonna work.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Um and then other times you find that the woman then loses herself because she has to deny her actual current context to take the pre you know, you know, prehistoric or whatever primordial. I I I don't know why today the English is like running away from me, but anyway, prehistoric, you know, traditions of what marriage is, and she loses herself. And so she remains submissive and da-da-da-da. But she's slowly dying. And then when we die, obviously, what happens to a corpse? Does it remain fresh? Do you like it? No, yeah, it starts to like fester and smell bad and you know, bubble up and stuff. Oh no disrespect to corpse. Like, we're gonna be No disrespect to corpse? What? Corpse are dead, Nadia. What are you talking about? No disrespect. I still have soul. Okay, the corpse, the body decomposes, the soul has left the left the building. But um that's what happens. Okay, other times you find that the woman sits in such masculine energy, forces the man to try and tap into his feminine energy, which is not his natural state.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

And so he also starts to lose himself, and then she doesn't like it because we don't marry a woman. If I marry a man, I actually want a man.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:11

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

Right? And for men, when they marry a woman, they actually want a woman. Absolutely. So when I come in so masculine and I'm the one who's like putting all the rules and I have I'm very harsh and da-da-da-da. And I'm, you know, coming in with all these demands, he's starting to not identify who I am. Yeah. Right? And then he goes outside and finds the nice girl who is sweet and you know, young and feminine and and wants to be taken care of and wants to be made feel safe, but you are here saying, I make my own money. You can't tell me shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:46

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:46

Hey, so you can give yourself safety. Okay. You can't give yourself safety. And then he goes and finds the one that needs safety. And I'm not trying to say we, you know, normalize it or um I'm not trying to justify it. Cheating. The cheating or the, you know, and the common culture in this country which needs to change before it does. Um but talk about that. But you can't blame, right? We need uh, I think most of us we're so used to like doing this, but we don't realize that all these other fingers are pointing back at me.

unknown 1:04:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

So yes, Sean's the problem. But what are you doing? Okay. What are you doing to drive Sean out of this house? Because Sean did not decide to marry you and give you a home and you know, give you the safety.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

Yeah, so he can just leave.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

So he can go and find it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

It's I mean, it's like drugs. Men do it. Do you like doing drugs? No. Do you like being an addict? No, but it makes you feel good. And so the crack cocaine makes me feel good. I know it depletes my finances. I know it's like fucking my system, like health-wise. I know everyone around me is talking shit about me and is unhappy with me. Yeah, but my system, my reward pathways are already hooked. And now I have no control. And so I go for the damn drug. The women are there.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

They're the drugs. I mean, can Chili, okay. Can Chili me forgiven? Can he be forgiven? Yes. How many times can he be forgiven?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:24

As many times as you want. Whoa. Explain. Um, it's all about this decisions, right? At some point, you need to respect yourself and say, okay, this is enough. This is enough. That's where the boundaries come in. But I believe you can rebuild and actually build an even stronger bearage after infidelity.

unknown 1:05:46

Whoa. Okay. Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:48

Young girls. Don't go be, you know, a cheater. Young girls will disagree with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

I can see them. I can see them. It's okay. You challenge me. I like challenges. Right? But Through the research, through therapy work, it's you can really skyrocket. After infidelity. Yes. It's just coming to terms, taking ownership, showing the remorse and actually meaning it, right? And being willing to do the work. Because and it's a lot of work. Because what happens when one cheats is you shatter one of the pillars that holds marriage. Trust. Right? Um, and so the person that has been cheated on.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

It's you know, cheat being infidelity is very traumatic for the person on the receiving end. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Literally what happens in their minds, their bodies, is a trauma reaction. Because it is a it is an immediate, very real threat. Because in marriage, our survival survival is ensured by the unit. Right? Because now, when I get into a car accident, the first person I call is my husband.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

Right? Before I was married, I call my dad and my brother-in-law. Right? And so if today my husband cheats on me, then that breaks, like it it destabilizes my my sense of safety, my survival on a psychological point of view. You know, point of view. And so it's very traumatic. Because trauma is threat to life. Right? Threat to my survival is threat to my life. That's how the brain interprets. The brain doesn't know the nitty-gritties of anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:37

So in that context, it does, it can work if the person that's done the cheating does not sit there try to justify their bullshit, takes accountability and ownership that I fucked up, shows remorse that I'm really genuinely sorry for doing this. What do you need to feel safe again with me?

unknown 1:08:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

And we build. Most couples fail because I've worked with couples who've not been able to.

unknown 1:08:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

Because it is a lot of work. And it all it is also very one-sided work. Wow. The one who was cheated on is just there to tell you that yes, you are hitting the right milestones. But you're doing all the heavy lifting. Because you cheated. You cheated. I mean, you are the one who went out and had the fun, you had the drugs. I mean, if we're gonna go to rehab, you're the one that's gonna have the withdrawal symptoms. How about that? Yeah, you know, so but but once you do that, because when you think of it, we meet, it's our biology that bonds us. It's nothing else. You think you're in love, but it's actually your system saying you need him to feel safe, you need him to survive. It's a primitive, right? Um women have limited number of eggs, men are stronger than us, and so in the old age, men would go and hunt and gather and bring the food, right? And take care of their family. Same, same happening today, but in different it's a different um surrounding.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

So when someone who cheats does all that work, that's purely their effort. There is no biology because you already built a bond. Now there's actually just fighting your brain's like resistance and your brain's uh template that this I I you know, this is how we used to live. This is what my wife used to do for me, but now she's not. Now you're having to fight your own self to say, okay, I cannot expect that I can just come home. And she comes and removes my socks and starts to massage my feet because I fucked up. Yeah. So it's not easy. But you, you know, doing all of those things, fighting your own demons, like fighting your wiring. Yeah, it proves that, okay, this is actually very important. It also goes back to prove that he really is remorseful. It goes back to prove that really he's taken ownership and he has integrity. And I can actually trust this man.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

You know, because he's done the work. Yeah. But yeah, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

Oh, cheating.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

Yeah. And it's usually easier easier for women to forgive.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Forgive than men.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

Than men.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

Do you think it's way deeper when a woman cheats?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

Yes.

unknown 1:10:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Women, like a man, I think men can cheat on a physical level.

unknown 1:10:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

And and that's all it is. Right. Um, that's what we believe. Um usually there's a lot more. Men just reason everything. And so they don't you don't tap into the emotions very much. Usually when when I sit with a man and he's he has cheated and you force him to dive into the emotions, you can see that there are emotional drives to the physical. But the fact that they stick to just the physical, it's easier for them to rebuild and just cut off. But women, when a woman ends up cheating, they have first left the relationship emotionally. Right? Long before they physically do anything. Right? Women today, we are adopting the male lifestyle.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Of what?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

Of counting the dead bodies. Wow. We're wanting to be more male, which doesn't feel authentic. When a woman says they like that lifestyle, they just like it from a logical space. That makes me look more you you can't hurt me. You can't how are you gonna hurt me if I say I don't really care? I can run through you and him and him and him.

unknown 1:12:08

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

And body can't have uh you all don't mean nothing to me. That's that's a defense mechanism.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:17

So so you're telling me women can't just decide uh I'm I can sleep with this, this, this, and no.

unknown 1:12:22

No. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

It's usually a defense mechanism. It's usually self-protective. It's usually to avoid the emotional pain that comes with connection. That is a woman's default. Wow. There's a reason why women are the ones that carry a baby. We're very like attached creatures. We attach to things, right? Um, and when there's attachment, it's not just easy to say, shut off, attach to something else. It's time to deal with the attachment.

unknown 1:12:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:56

Friends with benefit is a no-go for women.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

No. You can look at the trends.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:00

At some point, feelings are so it's it's it's just it's either um you when you do it often, I feel like it will feelings will definitely gonna be attached. But if you do it like on a once in a while, it might not be as bad as uh how you if you do it like every week or every time. Exposure. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

The more exposed you are to someone, the more feelings grow. Yeah, the stronger the bond.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

I want to play a game with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:29

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:30

So I'm I'm basically gonna be giving you statements, and you're telling me if that's Tanzanian vibe for you. So you say teasy or not teasy.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:38

You know what I mean? You ready? I'm ready. Okay, okay. Judge someone playlist uh silently.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:47

TZ.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

TZ? Okay, pretended to not notice someone.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:54

Very teasy. Sorry, I didn't let you finish.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

Pretended to not notice someone, even though they clearly notice them. Very teasy. Yeah, very teasy. Have you ever done that? Yes. Do you like that? Or it's just that they're like, I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. Uh acting nonchalant while spiraling inside. T or not teasy?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

T.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:21

T., yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

We we pretend to be calm. I think it's it's wired in our DNA, like our cultural DNA.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

Yeah, yeah. You know? You feel like that the inferiority complex?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:34

Hmm. Yeah. It was hardwired within us. We love Nirere, but it was him. Wow. And obviously colonialism and you know everything else, but yeah. Wow, okay. It's a good way to control us.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:53

You think so?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

Yeah. Make people feel inferior. Then you're not gonna challenge. That's why we don't like being challenged.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:01

Wow, okay. Last one. Imagine a whole future with somebody from a good conversation, from one good conversation, that easy or not easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:12

I'm in between.

unknown 1:15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

But I I I'm leaning towards it being very teasy as well. Oh yeah. Yeah. Especially, I don't know, maybe the millennials. I need to hang out with more Gen Z people.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:29

Oh well, I actually do. Well, I don't. I teach, I teach.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:33

You teach, can't see?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:34

Yeah. I teach Gen Z. But I'm always thinking I'm one of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

Because I'm like, I'm trying to get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:38

Camouflage.

unknown 1:15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

Oh, that was a game. Did you like it?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

I liked it. Yeah. Did I get any of them right? No, no. Is it all very TZ? But it feels like they're all very TZ. Yeah, yeah, it is. Because it's just vibes. Perspective. Yeah, perspective.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

Um other therapists, right? Clinical psychologists. Uh what's your view on religion these days? And how do you like you're clearly a religious person. How do you like separate that with work and how do you navigate that?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

I actually don't. I used to. So when I you when I started uh practicing, I was very, very rigid with like the ethics and the code that I was taught. And then gaining more experience and working with more people and more exposure, and I'm like, you know what? Clients actually come to me because of who I am as a person. As a person. So yes, they don't know me and they will not get to know my nitty-gritty. But it's my energy that is healing, not the therapeutic modality. Because you can see another therapist and she knows the exact, she got the same training, but you might not find her or him beneficial, and you might find me.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

And that does not speak to the, you know, the degree or the training. Okay. It speaks to the person. Okay. So these days, I incorporate, I allow parts of myself to come into the space, into the room. Okay. Right? Um, again, following the lead of my client. If my client is religious, then I incorporate religion into it. Um I I've done Islamic psychology, I've done training, not very deeply, and I, you know, it's something I want to go deeper into. Um, but I incorporate it. Because I see it has value. Um and I'm very eclectic in my approach. So what that means is I don't just stick to one specific technique. I believe we're multifaceted. Like there's so many parts of us. And saying, Just C BT, no, I'm, you know, I'm pink and I'm blue and I'm yellow. I even have look, there's different shades of me just like here. So I try to borrow and bring things from different parts and marry them together to fit my unique person. Okay. Yeah. Because I believe we're all unique. True. Um, and so we can't just slap the same thing for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

But yeah, I don't overly self-disclose, but I sometimes when a client says, you know, I've gone through this shitty marriage, I'm like, yes. Um if I can relate, I'll be like yeah, I can relate. Um if if it helps them. So rule of thumb is your disclosure. Is it helpful for the client? You're not just saying, Oh, I had a shitty night. What does that have to do with them sitting on your chair? Nothing. Right? But if they come in and say, you know, I lost my child and this experience, I felt like no one understood me, and you can tap into that and say, you know what, I've actually gone through a similar loss. And this is what we call disenfranchised grief that society doesn't understand, but you're still going through pain. You know, it just humanizes you and makes them lower their guards because often therapy is very vulnerable. Yeah. You come in and you're now divulging all the things from the flaws to the good, the bad, the ugly. Usually it's the bad and the ugly because we don't come in there when we're happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:19

So people shouldn't do therapy when they're happy?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:21

They should. They can, but they don't need to. Okay. Right? If things are going great in life, just do more of those things.

unknown 1:19:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

Right? But if things are falling apart, then come to therapy. Um, if the people around you are saying the things you're doing, you might feel good, but everyone around you is like, you know, offended or is feeling bad, then you need to dive deeper.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:46

Hey gang, don't go anywhere just yet. We still got more of the No Calling podcasts coming out.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:59

Yeah. What type of music do you listen to?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

It's random. Yeah?

unknown 1:20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:05

I listen to anything that has a nice beat.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:08

Hip hop?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

You don't like hip-hop?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:14

I don't think I've been like I'll probably if it's playing, I'll move. Yeah. But I will not go look for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

Wow. Damn. Are you tanzen? Yes. Okay. I am I'm a cocktail. Cocktail?

unknown 1:20:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:32

Okay, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:33

Well, both my parents are very mixed. So usually I get people say, Oh, but you're not. I'm like, no, but I am, but I'm just very mixed. They call them cappuccino, actually. Ah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:44

That is the halal version of who we are. Cappuccino. Oh my god. They're both very intoxicating in different ways.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:58

Oh my god. Guys, uh, this is the second half of the show. You know what I mean? We're back from the show break. Ah, we're loving the vibe. Hopefully, you're loving the vibe as well. And hopefully, you haven't forgot to subscribe. A lot of people who listen to the show actually forget to subscribe because either they're just using it or they're uh playing on their on our guest account on YouTube on their TV on their hotel somewhere. They usually don't have their account in. So please put your account just a little bit, a few minutes of your time, just subscribe to the podcast. Because we need we need to get out there. Yeah. So subscribe is the subscriber isn't matters. So I'd appreciate everybody who subscribes. And yeah, you'll support the podcast. And with that said, guys, we had content. Oh, Pentagon Rentals. And uh it's the studio that keeps this podcast alive, keeps it going. If you're a creator like myself, a podcaster, you can always reach out to Pentagon Rentals in their Instagram DMs, and you can get a space that has everything you need as a creator. Literally everything you need. And the studio is expanding, it's growing, and the more, the merrier, I guess. Podcasters out there come through. Even if you're a content creator, influencer, we have spaces, setups you can use for your own craft. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:20

Back to it an amazing space.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:22

Yeah, it is. Oh, thank you. How did you feel walking in though?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

I like the vibe. It felt welcoming. I like the jazz. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like relaxing. Like not relaxing that you're gonna fall asleep, but just the right tempo.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:40

Tempo for a podcast. Yeah. Can spill the beans. Um Mind Matters. How did that come about? Hmm. The name or the from the name to the whole space. Because I've been to Mind Matters actually. They told me to take my feet out, up my shoes out, because apparently they want me to feel at home.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

But I had a good fit on and having flip-flops for shoes with the whole fit I had. It was weird, but I adjust because I was a guest. And usually, guests, you follow rules. Yeah. Yeah, so keep going.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:19

It's we our our tagline is where every mind finds a home. Right? So when you come there, we want you to feel like you're at home. Okay. Um, and I'm not really sure how the name came about.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

But yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:36

It was just because I I didn't want, I wanted something that would speak to what we do. Okay. And we work with people's psyche and the mind. And I didn't want to say psyche because then some people will be like, no, this is not for me. And then landed on mind, because the mind is, you know, the rational person will understand the mind is a structure, it's it's it's logic, it's where logic sits, and emotions sit there too. But you know, um, and the matters plays, it's like a word play. Like matters of the mind, mind matters, but also the mind matters.

unknown 1:24:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

So it's important we prioritize our mind, this supercomputer that helps us do everything that we're doing. Um the space. So I've yeah. I I have a history of mental illness in my family. Okay. Um, and one of the reasons that I chose to go into mental health is because I know I have biological genetic predispositions to mental illness.

unknown 1:24:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:43

And so because I do not want to end up on that end of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:48

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:49

I it was very selfish. I wanted to learn more. We are. And it's it's it's important. It's good. Right, right? Yeah. With moderation. Like as long as we're selfish without infringing on other people.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:01

Yes, of course. Don't hurt people.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:02

Yeah.

unknown 1:25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

Right? Um, so it was more so a journey to get to know myself better. And in that process, help because um there's not a lot of mental health professionals in the country. There's like a handful of psychiatrists, a handful of psychologists in the country. We have a, you know, ton of stigma, you know, tons of stigma, like oceans um worth of stigma. Um, but people are suffering, right? Um, usually we label it as a merogwa, um, you know, ame mungwa memlani. Right? That's how we speak of mental illness in our community.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:47

Yeah, witchcraft and religion. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

Yes, right? Your ancestors wame lani. Yeah. Which is very stigmatizing in the sense it says you've done something wrong and now you're being punished. Which is not the case. Yeah. Right? We've not done anything wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:08

We're just living life.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:10

Life is is tough. Kabisa. And you know, we're not all resilient in that way. Yeah. We don't all we don't all have the right the same tools or the right tools.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:25

To navigate.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

Yes. So that that was why um I created this, or I got into mental health. But to create mind matters was seeing the struggle I went through. Like coming back, because I studied in South Africa and I also did some studies here. But coming back, I've done my training, I'm excited. The scene there with mental health is much better than here. You know, it's must it's formalized, it's recognized, it's respected. I come back here and I go all these places and everyone's like, what? What is that? What do you do? You know what? We don't need that. We don't do that here. Um, or no, we're not hiring, you know, we already have this expat who's here doing this. Yeah. And I really struggled. No one was hiring me. And I'm, you know, coming from school, we want to get hired. So we can have our own money and stop asking dad for pocket money. Like, what?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:22

Um, but then there wasn't any. And so I initially started as a private practice and it was just a solo practice, just myself. But eventually I'm like, okay, there's so many people like me who went through years of study and are really passionate about taking care of people's mind and helping people, um, and also want to make a living. Because ultimately, we're not just doing we're not just doing this because we like you. We like we like you because we like humans, but I need the money. Of course. A girl's gotta eat. Of course. A girl's gotta buy stuff. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna spoil my man. You know, and so I need money. That's how the world works.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:13

You could not say it any better, man. You could not say it any better.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:16

So that's where Mind Matters came from. It's like, okay, there's we don't all have to be in isolation because this work is very lonely. Just by the way. Like people come to us and we make them feel less lonely because now they have a person they can share their entire world and problems and everything to. But we don't have that space, right? We have to go pay a therapist to create that space. But as professionals, we can actually be each other's ecosystem because we're bound to the same ethics. We're bound to the same secrecy. Yeah. We're bound to this. Um and so part of it was to create a space where we don't feel lonely, that we have people who actually understand. Because I get people like, what do you do? You just sit there and listen to people. I'm like, bitch, no. What? You're talking, but I'm sifting through files and files, and I'm connecting so many dots to solve your problem. Exactly. Like you're giving me, imagine for those who do puzzles, like a thousand-piece or 20,000-piece puzzle, like you know, and they're all scattered, and I have to put that shit together in an hour to at least make sense of it, and then every day put the pieces together until you make the puzzle. Until you complete the puzzle. Because your therapist is the person saying, Oh, have you seen that piece?

unknown 1:29:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:35

Would it fit there? And then you pick it up and put it there. Right? So I need to scan for that damn piece to point it out to you in the right way. So you think that it's your own intellect doing it. I'm spelling the secrets of therapy. But we just ask you very intelligent questions to guide you to an answer we're already seeing. Wow. Okay. We don't know everything. Yeah. But we come close.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:06

So we're going to dive into the last segment of the show. Um, it's called No Trolling Questions. So in the show, we have a catchphrase saying, uh, no trolling, don't sweat it.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:17

So we're no trolling, don't sweat it. So usually um before you answer any questions from now, you say don't sweat it, then you answer.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:27

And I'm gonna ask the question and say, Okay, Nadia, uh when when was the last time you took a shower? Don't sweat it. Yes. And you respond, yesterday night. And then okay. Something in that that's the scenario. Okay. Got it? Got it. Uh these questions are from the no trollers. Uh-huh. The no trollers are the audience.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:48

No trollers.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:49

Uh-huh. Hi, no trollers.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:52

So basically we're not gonna sweat it.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:54

We're not sweating it today. And so these are also some of the questions I find interesting because um, yeah, I'm the producer of the show as well. So the questions I find interesting, I'm assuming the no trollers find interesting as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:09

We're in Sean's universe.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:11

Absolutely. It's all about me now. Okay, but yeah, but the first the trolling question is being delusional actually necessary to survive today's world? No trolling.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:22

Don't sweat it.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:23

It is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:25

I think the most delusional people are the most successful, they have the wildest dreams. Look at Elon Musk.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:31

Yeah, true. I don't even disagree with that because I feel like if I used to, if I was to go through life and just be realistic with everything, come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:43

So boring, yeah, and so limiting. Yeah, be delusional everywhere, even in your marriage. Oh shit! Facts!

SPEAKER_03 1:31:52

What is he talking about? You know, do all the damn things. Yo, be delusional, game. Be damn delusional because at the end of the day, it won't make sense until it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

Yeah, and you only live once. So it doesn't matter. Just do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:14

Just do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:14

Just do it. Respect everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:16

Yeah, be nice though. Be kind. Be kind. No nice. Good. Good kind. Yeah. Okay. Uh does kneeling during an engagement symbolize love or submission? No trolling.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:32

Don't sweat it. I'm not sweating it, but I it does. It's like a unconscious or symbolic way of saying I am submitting. Um we know we like it when men do it. Because there's already a power imbalance. So when he does it, it it speaks something different. Like I'm I'm willing to come to your level and see you.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:01

Oh, so when we kneel down, we're coming to your level getting it. And you see us.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:05

But when women kneel, that's just trash. Yeah, Tanzania. In Tanzania, women kneel. That's just trash. That's just patriarchy. Um patriarchy. And just it's just toxic, I believe. Because already women are naturally submissive. Like a woman who's in her feminine space is automatically submissive. You don't even have to ask. So that it feels very forced. Like you see this lady who's a CEO working at some bank, kneeling. What? Why? You're wearing heels. Your knees, shame, they're soft. Imagine you just went for a hamam and now you're here. Your dress that is expensive. You're kneeling. You're kneeling.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:52

Yeah, some tradition, some traditions heavily believe on that, and they're saying that um a woman, a woman is lucky to marry, to be married by me, so you should submit. And I'm like, whoa. You guys think you're lucky?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:06

Well, we're both lucky.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:10

Okay, okay. Can a narcissist upbringing um create people who think trauma is love? No trolling.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:18

Oh yes. Okay. Yes. They that environment teaches you all the wrong things about love and attachment.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:27

Narcissistic upbringing.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:29

Yes. It's either you expect so much and you you basically become a narcissist, or you're attracted to narcissists who you know there's already an imbalance. So you either will crave what you've learned as a child, the love that you've received, or you become it. There is no other way. You're either here or you're either the victim and you become a victim for the rest of your life, right? Until you become a survivor, or you are the abuser. The narcissist is the abuser.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:14

How do you deal with it though?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:18

Narcissists are kind of they're an abomination. Don't sweat it. They are an abomination. I think spiritually, I believe they've been given a golden ticket to heaven, but shame, they fail the test. So they're gonna be fire, um, they're gonna be wood for you know hell. But um what was your question? I talk too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:47

Now I was saying how do you how do you um navigate like having a narcissistic upbringing and how do you deal with it?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:54

Oh so if you're lucky enough to be then attracted to narcissists, so you're you grow up into believing this is how I should be loved. You don't grow up into becoming a narcissist. Because when people become grow into the narcissist, yeah, any research so far this decade says that whoever, any narcissist that is actually goes successfully into therapy and is cured is a unicorn. Have you ever seen a unicorn? They don't exist, they exist in our delusional world. Damn. You know, and that's why narcissists still get into marriages, relationships, because we're delusional, and I'm like, I can fix him. I can fix him. You can't fix shit. You can't. Um but for those that are become victims, I think listening, because your nervous system is fucked. Okay. Like your wiring is is you're constantly from an early age operating from survival. Because your parents did not ever teach you what peace meant because everything is performative. A narcissist, you're a supply.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:06

If you're good and you feed into what they need, you're good. The minute you don't, you're horrible. So you're constantly on your toes. Trying to juggle there. Yes. So imagine from an early age, you're just operating from your nervous like fight or flight. Your nervous system is like burnt out. So you find most people get like inklings, find be depressive episodes, anxiety, attachment issues, many, many heartbreaks.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:34

Daddy issues.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:35

Yes. Take those as invitations to dive deeper. Come to therapy.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:43

I love what you're doing, guys. Okay, um, how does this why we're here? Exactly. Exactly. How does one go about dealing with child trauma, you know, trolling?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:58

Don't sweat it. Um, I think that the best way is to just accept that you went through shitty circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:09

Growing up. Yeah. And don't justify it.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:12

Don't justify it. Don't try to run away from it. Okay. Um just accept. Don't even try to change it. Because sometimes people get stuck in trying to change why did that happen to me, and now they're stuck in wanting to change. But you can't change you can't change history.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:27

It's already happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:28

It's already happened. Right. Um so the biggest thing is to just come to terms with the magnitude of what you went through and to be willing to do the hard work of like bringing back that all those traumatic experiences so that you can reprocess them. Because what happens with trauma is they the trauma becomes like the glasses we wear, right? If these were pink, everything is pink. So we see the world through our trauma. We make meaning through our trauma. We understand relationships through our traumas. And that is not a fair or accurate assessment of the world. So a lot of the work is starting to clean these glasses, bringing back the trauma, making sense of it, seeing how it has influenced how you've made sense of the world, how it's fed into your decisions, into your choices, and changing that narrative. Okay. Like deliberately. It's a lot of work. Does it come to therapy? Come to therapy.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:39

Does that mean you have to relieve all that?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:42

Yes. Part of it is through and you can either relieve it somatically, because I have we work with clients who are not ready yet to tap into those memories. Okay. And so we do somatic therapy. That somatic therapy. Somatic, which is more so focusing on the sensations within the body. How do you go about that? So there's different techniques. So we can basically let's say teach the nervous system to feel safe through breath work. Because when we do specific types of breath work, we activate the parasympathetic nervous system that tells your brain that you're safe. So you find that because they're they've been constantly on flights, fight, flight survival mode, they're constantly on this alert that danger, danger, danger. So breathing teaches them that actually no, there's no danger. We can relax. So there's training someone to breathe just to soothe themselves. But also it can be through scanning, scanning through different parts of the bodies to see what you are feeling. That helps us to navigate through where the pain has been stored. Because trauma often is remembered. Your body remembers. Right? If you were abused as a child, those beatings they're somewhere. You will feel that pain in your body. That's how the trauma is stored. So even if you cannot access it via memory, your body will help you access it physically.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:10

Speaking of getting whooped as a kid, does corporate punishment discipline children or teach them fear? No trolling?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:20

Don't sweat it. It teaches them fear and it teaches them to it. It actually teaches them to be fearless in doing whatever it is that you were trying to teach them not to do. You just create a rebel. Oh yeah? Yeah. Tsugu. Sugu. And I was finding out I'm bigger than a kwanga.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:41

So people shouldn't practice corporate punishment.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:45

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:46

What? You shouldn't. Listen, when I I'm not saying people sh kids should be whooped or anything. But those whoopings like made me who I am today.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:57

No, they they're just fear-based. Really? Yes. And kids are different. Some kids you break them, and you are the one creating these uh antisocial creatures that we encounter in the streets. Right? Um, but kids are quite intelligent. Okay. They understand consequence. But also behaviors from kids are just they are basically a cry for your attention. So if you beat me, I succeeded in gaining your attention. And so I will do it again. Why? Because a child's brain doesn't know it's positive attention or it's negative. Attention is attention.

unknown 1:42:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:41

We do that too, even in relationships, because the woman will be there throwing a tantrum, and the man's like, I'm done with this. But she's getting the attention. She's getting the anger.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:50

Oh, he's angry. Yeah. That's toxic as hell. Toxic. Whoa. So how do you discipline a child then? Like, what's because like Africans' default is whooping a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:02

It's very unintelligent. It's like we're using zero brain. It's easy. It's easy to just raise your hand. It's very primitive. Beat them and move on. But imagine sitting there and saying, okay, okay, what is this kid like? What would be an effective way of what would be an effective consequence? Damn, that's a lot of time right there. Exactly. But the more you do it, it's like automated. Automatically. You know, because you could easily, kids like technology nowadays. You could easily, they didn't do something, you'd be like, okay, I take your device until you finish your homework. And then after, you get the reward. That's what you want, right? You know, but you've taught them that to get what you want, you have to follow specific rules because at the end of the day, they live in your house. Yeah. They have to abide to your rules. Yeah. They have no choice.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:56

And you can co-create the rules, but ultimately the parents are the leaders. Yeah. You know, this the the janitor cannot tell the CEO how to run his company. True. Kids are not janitors.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:09

But it's uh perspective. Um before I let you go, Nadia, uh, I want to know what is your dream? Hmm.

unknown 1:44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:22

To be a stay-at-home wife. My dream is to be a soccer mom. You know, the very traditional soccer mom who goes for like pickleball.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:32

Such a girl's answer. I go laugh. Such a girl's answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:35

I bake. And, you know, I go to my to Mind Matters and offer therapy because, you know, it just makes me feel nice. And I don't need your money. Um because I'm sorted. You know, I'm married to that provider who's like got me sorted. Um, but that's like my dream job. My dream, like, I don't know if it's a dream job, my but my dream is to just be a stay at home. Just fester in my femininity and just nurture the generation that you know I've been entrusted to nurture.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:07

Wow. You know? It's a solid dream right there. Hey, hey, hopefully, hopefully you achieve that.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:14

Amen. Everyone, say amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:17

Amin.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:18

I mean, alhamdulillah, they say Alhamdulillah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:21

It's like I've already received it. Thank you. Usually they say God doesn't make you dream of something that He's not already planned for you. So I got it.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:37

Ladies and gentlemen, no showless friends at the show. This today was episode 82. Uh, if you have learned anything, uh please share what you've learned. Uh, we've talked about a couple stuff that leads to mental health. Because this year, I promised you guys, we're gonna be talking more about um mental health, human body, business, entrepreneurship. We're gonna be trying to make ourselves better. Yes, you know, make more money, you know, have mindsets that are required to be a successful person because everybody at the end of the day, we're here and we want to be successful, no?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:12

Yes, we all have gifts, yeah, that is our it's our responsibility to share with the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:17

Yeah, so if you're liking how this vibe is going, subscribe, comment, shoot her DM. I'm gonna have her details.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:26

Come to therapy, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:28

Come to therapy. Fix yourselves, you're not and spend them a bag. Ladies and gentlemen, until next time. Peace.