Pride: Past, Present, and the People We Don't Get to Lose

Pride didn't start with a parade. It started with a stand. In the Pride Month launch episode of Ty in Progress, queer storyteller Ty Pollock walks through the past, present, and future of Pride — from Sappho to Stonewall to the Pride flag flying year-round on his Salt Lake City house through every threat. A celebration of where we've been, where we are, and where we're going. Don't dim your light. Be true. Be you.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Welcome and a warning
(01:36) The Past: queer people have always been here
(03:28) America 1953 and the federal firings
(04:09) Frank Kameny: the man history forgot
(06:40) Stonewall opens: the Mafia bar that became a movement
(07:24) Stonewall wasn't a drag queen bar (in Sylvia's words)
(08:38) Meet Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson
(09:25) June 28, 1969: the night Stonewall fought back
(10:30) Sylvia: "I have to go off"
(11:44) 1973: Sylvia booed off the Pride stage
(12:43) Ty visits the Stonewall Monument
(14:05) AIDS, marriage equality, and Ty's 2019 wedding toast
(15:25) The Joy of Pride
(16:42) Why we still need Pride: GLAAD, suicide stats, 62 countries
(17:55) "Take your husband off your profile"
(19:35) "That's the past" — the line that broke me
(21:11) Five things you can do for Pride
(23:32) In the Group Chat: Rachel's first Pride
(26:11) Crisis resources
(27:23) Be true. Be you.

ABOUT TY:
Ty Pollock is a queer storyteller from Salt Lake City. He hosts Ty in Progress, a 30-minute couch conversation that drops every Tuesday. Some weeks it's just Ty. Other weeks, he pulls up a chair for a guest you'll be glad you met. Don't dim your light. Be true. Be you.

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Don't dim your light and share it! Be true. Be you.

Transcript

Welcome and a warning

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Oh hey, welcome back to Time Progress. We are back at it again. We are outside. We are just grounding ourselves. It is beautiful weather, and I am very excited to be here today. You will see if you're watching on YouTube that I have my dog surrounding around me. I have my gus gus pug, and I have my lab indie. They'll be coming in and out through the entire episode. So I'm excited if it is a family affair. Today we are talking all about pride. No, it's not your personality pride or whatever that is. We are talking about queer pride. We are at the start of June, which is the holy days for queers. Have you seen those TikToks of everything you can't say to a gay person in June? Like those absolutely kill me. Like I saw one that said cargo shorts were banned during June, and it had me rolling. Like I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Mainly because I was one of those that used to wear cargo shorts. My sister still makes fun of me to this day. Before we get started, I just wanted to give a little bit of warning. So some of the topics that we're talking about are a little heavy. As I was researching and writing this, so much more of pride came into my life. The history, the present, where we're going, and the happiness along with it. But also it came tears rolling down my cheeks. Some parts are filled with so much joy, and some parts are filled with so much sadness. But you know what? That's what pride is all about. And we need to learn from it so we can fight to fix it. So stay with me here, friends, because we are going to learn about the past, present, and future of pride, why we have it, why it's still under attack, and why we keep going. Okay, so we're gonna talk about the past first. I gotta back up just a little bit, like way

The Past: queer people have always been here

SPEAKER_00 1:36

back. Because here's the thing the queer rights movement is modern, but queer people aren't. Queer people have been here since the very beginning of time, and to the dismay of some other people who were trying to erase us, we aren't going away either. In ancient Greece, around 600 BCE, there was a poet named Sappho. She lived on an island called Lesbos. She wrote love poetry for other women. The word lesbian literally comes from where she lived. Then let's go back further. Egypt, 2400 BCE. There's a tomb at Sakara. Before we start, I just want to say I'm so sorry about the pronunciation. I have practiced many, many times, and I know I'm going to butcher it here, but I'm trying, and here we go. So there were two men, Kanum Hatep and Eniaknum. They were buried together, and the art in their tomb shows them embracing and holding hands. Historians have been arguing for decades about whether they were lovers or brothers. But the question itself is still 4,000 years old. Now we come closer to home. Two spirit traditions existed in over 130 Native American nations, sacred roles for people whose gender or sexuality didn't fit the binary, recognized in cultures across the continent before European contact. Then of course, fucking colonization happened and a lot of it got erased. The term two spirit actually itself wasn't coined until 1990, but the traditions and everything with it goes back for centuries. We've been everywhere since the beginning of time. So when somebody tells you queer is a modern trend or a new lifestyle, or wow, it sure seems like there are a lot more gay people around these days.

America 1953 and the federal firings

SPEAKER_00 3:28

With that said, I want to start in America in 1953. President Eisenhower banned all gay people from federal jobs. But before that, in 1950, the State Department had already been firing people for moral turpitude. During that time, 91 employees in one year, all gay, fired. Their careers were over. Done. And it wasn't just the feds. In 1951, at a local level, the cops raided a bar called Hazel's Inn in California. In one night, almost a hundred people were arrested for being gay with just sitting in a bar. This is the crazy part that that was the world less than 75 years ago. During that time, there's one person I want to

Frank Kameny: the man history forgot

SPEAKER_00 4:09

mention. He was a federal employee who got fired because most of the queer history skips him, and he doesn't deserve that. His name was Frank Kemene, PhD from Harvard, astronomer. He worked for the Army Map Service. In 1957, he got fired for being gay under the exact executive order that I just told you about. In 1961, he became the first openly gay person to bring a civil rights case to the United States Supreme Court. He lost the case. Then he founded the Mattachine Society of Washington and wrote the playbook for modern queer organizing. In 1968, he coined the slogan, gay is good. What's funny is he doesn't get a chapter in most queer history books. So now we fast forward to New York. And this is where it gets dumb in a really almost funny kind of way. The State Liquor Authority had this rule going back to 1934 after Prohibition. Now bars couldn't serve disorderly people, and they had decided that being gay made you disorderly. Just existing in a bar, that was a disorder. It wasn't as if you were drunk and walking out of the street and publicly whatever it is, that wasn't disorderly. It was just because you were gay sitting in a bar. If you were a gay bar, you had two choices. You could get raided constantly until they shut you down, or you could find someone willing to break the law. That someone was the mafia. Yes, honey, the mafia ran our gay bars, specifically the Genovese family, a guy called Fat Tony Lauria. They didn't care that the clientele was queer. They could care less. They cared that the clientele paid cash. They were the only ones who would have us. Now, quick tangent because I think that this matters. So in April of 1966, three years before Stonewall, the Matishine Society, the same Frank Kemney one I just mentioned, they organized a protest called the Sip In. Modeled on the civil rights sit-ins, three gay guys walked into a bar in the village, declared they were gay, ordered drinks, and waited to get refused so they could sue. It worked because one year after that, in 1967, a New York court ruled bars couldn't lose their license just for serving us. So technically, yeah, gay bars became legal in 1967. But here's the shady part that no one fucking tells you about. The 1967 ruling did not stop the raids because the cops still had cover under disorderly conduct. Same-sex dancing? Disorderly. Kissing? Disorderly. Wearing the wrong clothes? Disorderly. Hell, this sounds like a typical Friday night for me. The law changed, the harassment did not.

Stonewall opens: the Mafia bar that became a movement

SPEAKER_00 6:40

The Stonewall opens March 18th, 1967. Now, technically, on paper, it was a private bottle club. Members signed in most of them with fake names like Judy Garland or Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse and paid a dollar at the door. But everyone in the community called it a gay bar. The private club status was a mafia workaround that let them skip the regulations a real bar would have to meet. Inside, from what I hear, is it was a shithole. Like no working bathrooms, it was kind of gross. There were two rooms, a dance floor, a jukebox, mostly dark. The mafia also paid off the cops monthly. The raids were scripted. Cops would walk in, do their paperwork, arrest the people in drag, the bar reopened the next night. It was all a ploy

Stonewall wasn't a drag queen bar (in Sylvia's words)

SPEAKER_00 7:24

just for money. Now you've probably heard that Stonewall was a black gay bar or a drag queen bar, and I heard that very same thing. Pretty much everybody who's done a TikTok about Stonewall has said some version of that. It's not actually true. I'm gonna read you what Sylvia Rivia said about this in 1989. She said the Stonewall bar wasn't for drag queens. Everybody keeps saying it was. Stonewall was not a bar for drag queens. If you were a drag queen, you could get into the stonewall if they knew you. And there were only a certain number of drag queens that were allowed. She said the actual drag queen bar was the Washington Square Bar on the 3rd Street and Broadway. That's where Sylvia used to go. The Stonewall was mostly white gay men in their late teens to early 30s. Some black men and Latino patrons, a few lesbians, and a strictly limited number of drag queens and trans women who were known enough to get past the door. And this is the part that breaks me. The people who fought back at Stonewall fought back from a place that didn't fully include them. It wasn't their safe space, but they were sick and tired of the police raids and having to pay them off. Now, before we get to the actual riot there, there are two people I gotta introduce. You heard me talk about Sylvia Rivera. She was 17 years old that night, homeless since 11,

Meet Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson

SPEAKER_00 8:38

doing sex work since she was a kid, Latina already organizing for the Black Liberation Movement, the peace movement, civil rights marches, at 17. Then on the other hand, we have Marcia P. Johnson, black, self-identified drag queen, 23 years old at the time, originally from Elizabeth, New Jersey, moved to New York at 17 with $15 and a bag of clothes. By 1969, she was a fixture in the village. People called her the Saint of Christopher Street because she'd give you her last dollar. And this is my favorite part. The P in her name is stood for Pay It No Mind. That was her answer when anyone asked questions about her gender. I mean, such an icon. Now imagine it's June 28th, 1969, about 1.20 in the morning.

June 28, 1969: the night Stonewall fought back

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Eight officers from the NYPD's public morale squad raided the stonewall. No advance warning this time. The bartenders didn't have time to hide their cash. Inspector Seymour Pine was in charge. That night he had no backup. The cops pushed everybody out the door and started loading people into paddy wagons. The crowd outside grew fast. Historians point to a butch lesbian named Stormy Del Arrui. Didn't pronounce that very well. That's one I have a little bit of trouble with. She fought back as they tried to put her in a wagon. She turned to the crowd and yelled, Why don't you guys do something? And then the coins started flying. And here's what made the coins matter. They were symbolic. Sylvia explained it later. The coins were the police bribe money. The crowd was throwing the cops' payoff back at them. Can you visualize just being there and feeling that emotion at the time? Bricks came in from the back of the crowd, bottles, Molotov cocktails. The cops barricaded themselves inside the bar. Somebody ripped a parking meter out of the sidewalk

Sylvia: "I have to go off"

SPEAKER_00 10:30

and used it as a battering ram on the door. The fighting went on for the rest of the night. And in addition, the next five nights. Sylvia was in it. She was with a friend who told her, Don't go off. And she said, I have to go off. I have to be a part of this. I have to. The feeling is here. Marcia was in it too. Multiple accounts have her in the crowd fighting back. One story has her climbing a lamppost outside the bar and dropping something heavy on a police car. She was part of the resistance. Stonewall wasn't the first uprising. There was Compton's cafeteria in San Francisco in 1966. There was Cooper Donuts Los Angeles 1959. The Black Cat Tavern, also in Los Angeles in 1967. But what made Stonewall significant is it was the first one that was caught. Because the underground press was watching, photographers showed up. The story got out. And once it was all out, the city couldn't put it back in. One year later, June 28th, 1970, the first Pride March started in Chicago. It also happened in New York, LA, and San Francisco. They called it Christopher Street Liberation Day. And it wasn't a parade, it was a protest.

1973: Sylvia booed off the Pride stage

SPEAKER_00 11:44

By 1972, though, Pride was in London, Paris, and in Sydney by 1978. Then the part that hurts the most. In 1973, four years after Stonewall, Pride had become a big thing. Bigger every single year, a lot more mainstream. However, the people who started it were getting pushed out. That same summer, Sylvia got on the stage at Pride in Washington Square Park. She wanted to talk about trans people who were in jail, trans people getting beat up, trans people being forgotten. And what happened? The crowd booed her. I still can't fucking believe this, friends. Like I can't believe that people would boo this type of reaction. Her own community, lesbians and gay men telling a 21-year-old trans woman who helped start the riot four years before that she didn't belong at Pride? So she walked off the stage. I don't fucking blame her. And she never spoke at Pride again for almost 30 years. It makes me terribly sad that that happened.

Ty visits the Stonewall Monument

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Last year I had quite the experience. I went to New York by myself and I went to the Stonewall Monument. Right there in the middle of the street, they made it a national monument in 2016. And fun fact, it was the first national monument in this country dedicated to LGBTQ history. It's a small park across the street from the bar, and there are two bronze statues there: a lesbian couple and a gay couple just standing with pride flags surrounded. I sat on the bench in that park for a long time, and I just felt the energy that was there. Feeling the peacefulness, but also the anger and the sadness that still resonates on that corner. Then I walked across the street into the Stonewall Inn. The bar is actually still there. I think it's a lot cleaner than it was. It still had the same address of 53 Christopher Street. They still served drinks, and I just sat there. When I say I needed it to be physical, I needed to be in the room where Sylvia walked in for the first time at 17. I needed to stand on the cobblestones that exist that the same people decades before me stood there and fought. It was a core memory of mine. That's what I want to give to all of you with this episode. I want this history to become a place, not facts on a page, a room you could walk into, a bar where you can sit down and order a drink, because all of that still exists. As we know, many of the original fighters are gone, but the building, the feeling, the story

AIDS, marriage equality, and Ty's 2019 wedding toast

SPEAKER_00 14:05

isn't. And once you've stood there, you can't forget that feeling. Now there are many historical events that happened that prove on why we still need pride. The AIDS epidemic, where it was called the gay plague, where we got the slogan silence equals death. And in the 90s and early 2000s, where we were fighting for marriage equality and workplace protections. It's absolutely wild to me that queer people couldn't get married until 2015. That's why I grew up feeling less than the straight people I went to school with. We feel less than. Well, in some states. We have rainbow logos on every brand in June. Well, we used to. That doesn't happen anymore. Fuck them. We don't need them. We have more pride parades than ever. Five million people went to World Pride in New York last summer. Oh, I wish I could have gone. It looked so much fun. Sao Paulo drives three to four million every single year. Pride happens is over a hundred countries. Pride is fucking fun. It is like so much fun. Like the actual version, like the real one, the real pride is something else

The Joy of Pride

SPEAKER_00 15:25

entirely. It's the first time you see two old gay men sitting on a curb and matching mesh tank tops, eating hot dogs, and you realize they've been together longer than you've been alive. It's the trans kid in the first dress in public being authentically who they were born to be, walking past the parade, just watching with their parent holding their hand. It's the drag queens in the back of a pickup truck throwing candy and yelling at the crowd like they own the fucking city. Because for that weekend they do. It's the dance floor at 1 a.m. where every person around you is queer or doesn't care and your body is just allowed to be in that space without explanation. I know I'm that person. I'm always dancing about. It's the moment you see another couple holding hands in public and you do that thing, you know, that like kind of like head thing where you're like almost checking them out, but not, and you kind of go, us, and then they catch your eye, and you kind of both laugh because you can't help it. It's also the strangers who become your family because they understood you the second they saw you. It's the makeup, the bandanas, the flags, the bodies, the art, the leather, the chaps, the sex positivity, the body paint, the grandmothers with P flags, the dykes on bikes who lead every parade in San Francisco because they earn that position. The drag brunches, the kiki balls, the tiny moments of being known. It's crying because you didn't know how badly you needed to be in a room full of you

Why we still need Pride: GLAAD, suicide stats, 62 countries

SPEAKER_00 16:42

until you walked in. That's pride. Pride is still a protest. For all those people that say, Why do you need pride? Why do you shove it down our throats? I'm like, girl, shut the fuck up. First of all, let me give you some stats on why we need pride. So last year alone, GLADS Alert Deaths tracked 932 anti-LGBTQ incidents in the United States. That's an average of 2.5 every single day. 84 injuries and 10 deaths. One in 10 LGBTQ plus young people attempted suicide in the past year. Hold on that for a second. One in 10 queer young people attempted suicide. And there are so many more that has thought of it. Suicide risk is three to six times greater for queer adults than for heterosexual adults across every age group and race. I know I was one of them at one point. Yeah, suicide risk is real in the queer community. And by the way, this isn't just an American fight. In 62 countries around the world, it is still illegal to be fucking gay. And at least seven of them, you can get the death penalty. I haven't seen any heterosexuals have that at all. And that just makes me so

"Take your husband off your profile"

SPEAKER_00 17:55

angry when I get that question. One in four LGBTQIA plus adults still face workplace discrimination. And let me tell you what that actually looks like. So I had a boss. It wasn't in the 80s, it wasn't even the 2010s. It's been within the last few years, so 2020 and above. And they told me to put my social media on private and take my husband off my profile picture. They told me to hide who I love so the company would be more comfortable, they said, and that it went against their ideology that they were trying to pretend to uphold. And when I say they were pretending, they were fucking pretending. That's the polite version. The professional one, the one you can't sue over because it's quote, just a suggestion. And I'll be honest, people don't listen. HR didn't listen. I ended up having to do it, which sucks. I got justice. That same year at Pride, a local news station interviewed me about Pride and how important it was. And here I was with my Pride flag, big gay tank top on. I'm a big old bear, so I'm like, yes, I get it. I had, and at the time I had a giant nose ring right there for thousands of people to see. Every corpus I know who's been in corporate has gotten some version of that. And the only way this stops is when we stop hiding. So that's why I've chosen to show up. We need to show up. Every year the fight is real and the joy is real and the people are real, all of it all at once. So you're probably asking, Ty, what comes next? The way I think about it, we celebrate pride forward. We celebrate to teach the people who haven't even been born yet what was earned and what we still need to earn. I actually hate saying that of what we need to earn because the fact that we have to earn

The line that broke me: "That's the past"

SPEAKER_00 19:35

it is all the more reasons why we need pride. We celebrate to teach the 14-year-old listening to this in their car right now that they're allowed to exist. We're allowed to exist. We celebrate to heal the 12-year-old us that was struggling with their sexuality in a world that told us we needed to be erased. We cannot forget the people who came before us and fought so hard for the things we have today. I received a message recently. They were telling me they were having a conversation about queer history with another younger generation queer person, and the person they were talking to said this. And I want you to sit with this because I was flabbergasted. And they said, We don't care. That's the past, leave it in the past. We don't care. That's the past. That sentence, that's the whole fucking problem. Because when you say you don't care about the past, you're saying you don't care about Marcia. You're saying you don't care about Sylvia, you don't care about the 12,000 Americans who died of AIDS before the president would say a word. You don't care about the people who got beaten, fired, killed, erased so we could exist out loud. The past isn't just the past. The past is the reason we have a present. And one day, sooner than we all think, the younger generation is going to look back at our fight, the 2020s, the trans bills, the book bans, the court cases that might come from marriage equality. Again, they're going to look back at us, and whatever they have, they'll have because we did not

Five things you can do for Pride

SPEAKER_00 21:11

forget. So when somebody tells you that's the past, you tell them the past is what built the present, the present is what builds the future, and we are not letting any of it get erased on our watch. We don't celebrate pride just to throw a party. We celebrate to keep a chain going. Here are five things that you can do to celebrate pride throughout the year. Whether you're a queer person or you're an ally or you're somewhere in between figuring it out. Five things. Number one, show up. Go to your local pride. Even if you don't dance, even if you just stand on a curb, or better yet, stand on a curb with a sign, your body in that space matters. Numbers in the street are how we tell the world we're not going anywhere. We're here, we're queer. Get used to it, baby. Number two, donate where the money. Goes to people, not branding. The Trevor Project for Queer Youth, Trans Lifeline, Sage for Queer Elders, your local LGBTQ plus center. Skip the corporate gallas. Find the orgs run by the people who get hit the hardest. Number three, vote and call. Federal matters, but state matters most. Local elections matter way more than you realize. Look up who represents you and your state legislature. Most of us don't know. Find out. Call them. Show up at the hearings. Is it boring? Yes. Is it necessary? Also extremely, yes. Number four, be loud in your own life. Don't make yourself smaller for a room. Don't hide who you will love. Don't take your husband off your profile picture. And number five, fly the flag year round, not just June. I fly my pride flag on my house year round. I don't take it down, not in October, not in February, not when the weather wrecks it, not when somebody knocks on my door looking for trouble. And yes, that has happened. Whatever your version of the flag is, the bumper sticker, the button on your bag, the wedding photo on your desk, the pin on your jacket, the hand you hold in public, don't take it down because representation matters. You're showing that you are a safe space to other people that might be scared. And letting them know that gives them an opportunity to come up to you and be in a safe spot. This is how we're celebrating Pride Forward. That's how we honor what came before and fight for the change needed to secure a better and brighter future.

In the Group Chat: Rachel's first Pride

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Representation matters and it continues with us. Okay. I feel really, really strongly as this as you couldn't tell. Okay, so before we wrap up, it's time for the group chat. It's where we take your questions and we answer them right here. Today's came from we are going to call them Rachel. They are a 22-year-old female from Midwest United States. Here is their question. Ty, I haven't come out yet, and that stresses me out. But I'm just not ready. Okay, first of all, let's pause. It's okay. You are the only person that decides your timeline. So don't stress out about it. You will know when it's the right time. I think that's the biggest bunch of bullshit that everybody is forced to be on a timeline. No, it's your journey and it's whatever you need to do to heal and be yourself. Okay, Tangent, let's get back. They are having a pride festival in town, and I want to go, but I am scared that people will start talking. What should I do? Great question. Well, Rachel, here's the thing: you don't own anyone a fucking explanation. If you want to go, go. People don't have to know that you are gay because you are going to a pride festival. You could be an ally. And at the end of the day, do you really care what those people think, anyways? Those people should not be in your circle. But I do understand where you're coming from because I've had a very similar situation. So back in 2015, I hadn't come out yet, and I had the same thought. My cousin, who is a gay man, invited me with his boyfriend at the time. I was 25. I wanted to check it out. Yes, I was scared as hell, but also I was excited. I went out and bought a new outfit just for that day. I went, I didn't tell anybody. And I had an absolute blast. That year I just observed and it brought me so much positive energy. And it really helped my coming out process. Also, you don't have to tell your parents. You don't have to tell your friends if you don't want to. You don't own anyone an explanation. This is for you. Yes, it will be scary, but what's the alternative? You don't go, you miss out. I'm telling you, don't do that. Go experience your first pride. Be around like-minded individuals because I guarantee you that fear will turn into happiness really quickly. Also, I say when you do come out and you attend your first pride after that, you will look back and cherish that moment because it's so totally different and so wonderful. So please let us know if you decide to go. I really hope you do because I have a feeling it will be a very positive experience for you. Ah, I am so excited for you. I wish I could have my first pride experience again. It was magical.

Crisis resources

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Anyway, thank you for sending a question into the group chat, Rachel. We really appreciate it. And if you have a group chat message that you'd like to send, please let us know on our on all of our social media platforms. So, anyways, before we wrap up, if anything in this episode hit you hard, I want you to know that you're not alone. There are resources for you, like the LGBT National Hauntline. The Trevor Project is available 24-7 for queer young people. Trans Lifeline is there for trans community. You can find their information in the description below. You are not alone. If you are struggling, reach out. Because I guarantee you someone has gone through the exact same thing you are going through now and can help. Don't suffer in silence and don't suffer alone. These are great resources, and please reach out. Okay, my in progress friends, thank you so much for going on this journey of pride with us. As always, I want to thank you for listening. And if you would like more, follow us on all the socials for behind the scenes trying new things and for the What They Don't Teach You series, where we go more in depth about people like Marsha, Sylvia, Frank, and so many thousands of more. We will see you next week and always remember to share your light with the world because that is all that matters, and the world deserves your light. Be

Be true. Be you.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

true, be you, and love you all. We'll see you next week.