Ninth Key Talks New Music, Authenticity & The Grind | Loyal to the Craft

On this episode of Loyal to the Craft, Mike Ciprari talks with Echo and Low Spirit about forming Ninth Key, collaborating for years before launching the project, and the reality of pursuing music in today’s world.
From mental health to creativity and staying authentic, this is a raw conversation about what it means to keep pushing forward as artists.
Who’s ready for the new Ninth Key music drop?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Alright, what's up, Idobe Radio? This is Mike Traprari and loyal to the Craft coming at you from the Loyal Lounge here in the Crystal Coast of North Carolina. We're stoked to be on Adobe Radio, where we're going to be bringing artists and creators to talk about the passion and the grind behind chasing the dream and making it happen. Today's episode, we've got two artists who have been pushing the envelope with their style and authenticity and have been collaborating together for years. We're talking music, mental health, and what it really takes to build something real in a world full of noise. We've got Echo and Low Spirit, who over the last few weeks have been teasing new music that absolutely crushes and are days away from dropping new music together as ninth key. Let's get into it. Thank you guys so much for joining here, Float of the Craft. Let's go. Heck yeah. Talk to me about the new band, guys. I mean, you've been collaborating together for years, as I mentioned, doing your own thing under Echo and Low Spirit. How and when did the idea of ninth key come into the picture? And how does it feel to be literally days away from dropping your new song?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Alright, who goes first? Me or you? You can go first. This started when I found Goodbye Happiness on his record, Look What You Made. Um, and I loved the chorus at the end so much. So I did a cover of it on TikTok and Instagram, and then that was received pretty well, and so I just hit him up and was like, yo, do you care if I like remix this song at all? And he was like, No, go for it. So I ended up doing it, and then when it came time to like doing verses, I actually like hit him up and was like, yo, are you like down to like feature on this? Which is hilarious because it's like I basically stole your song and then asked you to feature on your own song, but just a different version of it. So that turned into a song called Hello Loneliness, and um we had never met, and the first time we met was to make content for that song to like post on Instagram and TikTok. Um, and we ended up just like having a good time. And later on, um, I remember he came to write with me and my friend Austin Coop, uh, who we now work with all the time, and he's like a close friend of mine who works on a ton of low spirit stuff. And uh, we were writing what became good things, and it was supposed to be another singer. Um, but when we were writing it, I loved the chorus so much, so I was just like, let me cut it. Um and we were still talking about another singer on that song um at the time, and then it was like after I cut it, we kind of both just decided we were like, ah, let's just do another collab and just put it out and see what happens. Um, and that song did really well, and we just had so much fun making music together that we just kind of kept doing it. Um, and at first, I don't think we really had a concept of making it like a project. I think we were thinking more along the lines of doing like a split kind of EP thing, like Echo and Low Spirit, like here's like five songs. Um but we just had such a good time that we just kept writing, and to be honest, we're still writing, even though we should stop because we have so many songs. Um, but we just have so much fun together, like making music, and eventually it just became natural. Every time he was in LA, we would just like make stuff and like do something. And to be honest, it felt good to get back to the epicenter of like just loving creating music again with no pressure, no expectation, no like I hope this does well on TikTok or the internet. It was just because we want it to. Um, and so that's how it like came about. Um, I'll let Echo like kind of gime in here as well, so I don't talk your heads off.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

But oh, I mean that's yeah, he's pretty much spot on. I mean, the only thing is like when we made good things, I had no intention of any other person being on it. I might have pretended that I did, but I was like, I I was just like, there's no there's no better version of this song, and that's kind of like the best thing about making stuff with uh Josh is like everything he's always been one of my favorite songwriters ever since I've heard anything that he's made. So when he redid my song and just made it better, I was like, this is incredible. And then every time we get in the studio and we write together, it just would come so easily and it would be so good, and I would be so inspired by it, and it would just like give me such energy that was like anything that we're doing to me sounds so special, and anything Josh does uh to me is like the best. Like, I'm such a fan of what he does that it makes every song just I don't want to say easy, but uh every it makes it uh easier to be inspired when everything sounds so fucking great that this guy does. So it just I I was so excited every time we got into a room together and making songs. And at a point, I think we maybe had like seven or eight songs, and we kept saying, yeah, maybe this is just a collab thing, but it was like, dude, this needs to have its own, it needs to have its own thing. It deserves more than just echo and low spirit. It deserves to have its its own identity, and I think that was kind of the idea behind putting the band together.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah, we like we felt like it deserved its own project, its own name, and like we felt like it was its own thing that had a separate identity to what both of us were doing individually. Um which by the way, thank you for all the nice words, Jeff. I I think we're like in love or something, but I'll let Mike uh in the chat here.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

It's important, you know, finding collaborative partners and that creative energy that you need to get your passion out and your ideas out. You know, Echo, you posted something just the other day about the new band and talking about starting it. This is it's a lot of work. Any creative endeavor you go on, you know, you have a preconceived notion of what it can or should be. And like you guys talked about, there's a lot of performative stuff out there that you're making it for a strategic reason for TikTok or whatever. From what you guys are saying and from the vibe that I'm getting from some of the stuff you've been teasing, it seems like it's just very organic and genuine, which is refreshing, but it's also not easy. Finding the right people to collaborate with is a huge win and not easy in of itself. So the fact that you guys found each other and developed this kind of synergy like you have is really special and really important. Talk to me about some of the ideas and goals and dreams and visions you guys have for the band. I know in that post echo, you talked about some folks from the industry reaching out. This is just the beginning, but you know, what do you guys, what do you hope happens from here? And talk to me about doing things independently because I think also part of it for a lot of young musicians, you dream of getting signed and going on tour and getting an agent, and it's a lot different now than it was even a few years ago, and it muddies the water to the point of not even not even wanting to do it anymore. Talk to me about maybe the refreshing feeling of working together and being so independent.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Oh and Josh, are you like what the what the fuck post are you talking about? What are you telling people?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

No, I'm I'm not, to be honest. I'm more so just like it feels like you're speaking to everything that I'm personally going through right now. Um, and it's sort of like the divine timing of like this project starting to kind of roll out. Um, and I I kind of want to speak to like younger musicians and people that are on the path, as you said, of like wanting to get a record deal, go tour, do the thing. And uh it almost feels like there are these certain uh landmarks that you need to reach in order to obtain those goals. Um and I just want to say that that's not true in this day and age anymore. You do not need a label, you do not need a manager. Um, you could certainly benefit from having people on your side helping you keep things organized. Um, but if anything, having too many people in your ear about like how you should do things or what you should do is absolute poison to your career. Um and uh it's funny because you used to be like, oh, well, we have to sign a deal and we have to get a management company to go out and tour and like live our dream. But it's like at the end of the day, um, I think the worst thing you can do is listen to other people. Um and the best thing you can do is almost operate entirely on your creativity and impulse and trust your intuition. Um one thing I wish I I did not do uh for the low spirit stuff over the past couple of years was uh take distribution deals um where I thought I needed um uh a good lump sum of money up front to create these these records uh or singles, if you will, and put them out and deliver them in a way that would be respected and and everyone would enjoy in a certain format that was elevated. And I thought I had to do so many things just to deliver music to people and and have it heard and have it matter. Um and on the back end of that, it's like you end up giving a percentage of your royalties away. It becomes harder to operate because you don't have enough like liquid up front to do things. And I'm in a position now where it's like, you know, I'm in a bunch of debt and it's like very difficult for me to like go out and tour. So I haven't in two years, you know. Um, but had I not signed those deals, had I just been patient and believed in myself and did the work that I did regardless, um, I would have been much better off and would have had like way, way, way much of an easier time. Sorry, I'm having trouble with words, um, going out and touring and and doing my thing. And right now, all you need is work ethic, social media, and just create music that really matters to you. I genuinely believe that everyone has a tribe and you don't need gatekeepers anymore. So um the refreshing thing about this band, like Ninth Key for me is that it's like him and I have kind of already learned so many lessons over the years with like our own respective projects. Um, and while at least on my side of the fence, like there's a chunk of my career or my catalog that's owned by other people, um, him and I created this. We didn't use any co-writers at all for this record. It was just us, and then it was three of our friends uh that are all producers, Aaron Pace, Maddie Beats, and uh Austin Coop, who we all just like worked with and they're our best friends. Um and we all made music together. And it's funny because I think it's one of the best records that I've ever like created. And it was just we didn't source anything, we didn't listen to anyone tell us that we needed this person in the room or this person in the room. Um, there was no one there to sort of like muddy up uh the water. So I think that this project is like the most genuine, authentic, and it was the most fun to create, and it's going to have the most opportunity because it was so natural, and there wasn't anyone directing us to kind of systematically approach this project. So I'm just saying as a message to other people, just have fun with playing music and don't lose the plot on that because that's the most valuable tool in your in your chest. You know what I mean? Um and it will take you the furthest, whether you believe it or not.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

So you didn't see the post that Echo made then?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Probably not. Well, I was just talking about I was just talking about how difficult, or not difficult, but how much it is just to start a whole new project and a whole band. I think I've been operating independently my entire career. I've was I think I was turned down so much in my early career, and it was like every time I got turned down, I just learned how to do it myself and kept going. And that kind of benefited me in the long run because then I was like, oh, I don't have to sign the deal. Oh, I don't, I don't need this from you. I can figure out my own music videos, I know how to do my own artwork, I know how to do blah blah blah blah blah. All these different things, which as an artist these days, if you don't know how to how to do all these things, you're either going to end up spending a lot more money because people are gonna take advantage of you, or you're gonna get subpar work because you're not finding the right people. And it it really benefits to take the time to learn all these things. And I didn't know that going into it, I just was basing it off of necessity. Like I have to figure out how to do this because this video has to come out, so I need to learn how to edit a video type of stuff like that. So I've always operated kind of on the on the other side of the spectrum from what Josh was talking about. Like I always was like, I'm I'm going to own everything, I'm gonna have full control, and uh I'm gonna be kind of in control of my own destiny. And it's funny because when we stepped into making the band, I was like, well, with this, you know, I'm open to whatever. In my solo career, I'm like, fuck everybody get fucked. Um yeah, on the band, I was like, Yeah, I'm down for whatever. And then the more we started doing things, it was like, well, what can we just do on our own? Why what can we figure out on our own? Because especially in the rock world that I've noticed apart from the hip-hop world, is it is labels are way more of a factor uh with everything, with festivals, with touring, with uh playlisting, with a lot of stuff. Labels do have a lot more control in the rock world, but still being independent and the connections that I've been able to make by being independent are just incredibly beneficial to trying to do this on our own. And people have reached out, and that's been really great. But I think Josh and I are just still just like, okay, let's just see what we can do on our own. And and we know we have something special, and we know we like it, and we know that it's important, and like he said, no other writers in the room, nothing else. So let's if we did it on our own up to this point, let's just see how much further we can take it.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, so it's like the one thing I will say is that like even though there are uh there are more people that sort of have keys to a lot of doors in the rock world, uh, they do not have the keys to the biggest gateway that we have, which is social media. Um, and they don't have control over public demand.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

So and also a big point is that Josh is the key for a lot of people because they send their artists to Josh to write their songs that end up being like smashes, and I'm like, Well, Josh, you are a key. So the ninth key, bro. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Jesus Christ, dude. Yeah. Uh but I was gonna say, like, um, you don't need you don't need certain gatekeepers if the public demand is there. And I think that one thing that I I regret in my career on my own as low spirit is kind of allowing those people to surround me and for me to feel like I absolutely needed them because uh there was so much pressure put on me. Could be because they had expectations of me that I couldn't either they weren't practical for me and I couldn't meet them, so I felt like I was failing all the time, and that dilutes everything, your art, your creativity, because you're so stressed and afraid, and you're holding on to everything you're in survival mode. And I think the nicest prospect about doing this on my own is being like, I have 16 years of experience of songwriting and producing records. I'm doing some of the biggest co-writes and productions of my entire career now on my own. I have built and scaled my business, and regardless of who I had in my corner, every opportunity that I got for low spirit creatively that has come out down to the Elenium cut that I had just done was an opportunity I got on my own. Nobody delivered that to me. So now I'm in a place where I'm like, we can pursue this project, own 100% of it, and not have to listen to anybody. And we already have the experience almost 20 years of knowing what to do and what not to do. And if the music is received really well because we've built and scaled these platforms, like I don't really feel like there's anything we can't do at this point on our own, and that's really liberating for me. And so I just want to deliver that message to other people that are coming up in this business. All you have to do is just fulfill yourself creatively, act on your intuition and your impulsivity. It's a good thing, regardless of what anyone tells you. Um, and it's the most important to keep intact, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Wise words for sure. And it's really cool and interesting the different perspectives you both have, and how at this point you are in the same lane where, like you just talked about, Josh, you had, you know, managers and people that you had distribution deals with. Echo, you've done it independently pretty much since day one. And now you both have taken the you know experiences you've had and together collectively, there's probably 40 years between the two of you. You know, it's a it's a new page, and with everything that you've learned, uh, you know, it's super exciting times to see what this band can do. Uh, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, I want to dive into the impact your music has had on your fans around the world and where you dig from to create the music and the lyrics and the messages behind your songs. We'll be right back. Let me tell you, we have done so many things up to this point, and we are just getting started. All that is thanks to our partnership with DistroKit. DistroKit makes it super easy to get your music out onto all major streaming platforms so you can focus on creating. Sign up for DistroKit today and get your music out to the world. We'll see you out there.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Echo, you good. Dude, I forgot, uh, Mike, you're like single-handedly responsible. Well, not single-handedly, but you have a hand in one of these songs getting made. Really? Yeah, because when we did If I Wasn't Me, the song, our first single is coming out, there's scratches on this song that are so sick. And it was lo-file. And it was because I met him at fucking Woodward that I had his number in my phone, or yeah, that I had his number on my phone, and I was just like hit him up. I was like, what's up? That's what I'm talking about, man.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

The web, you know, the the web of the industry, I think, and and you know, Josh, you said it a couple times meeting people, and yes, there are gatekeepers, but when you do it on your own and when you're independent and you're the one that is in the room and on the email and text threads, you're meeting people and you're getting ideas and you're getting those little nuggets of inspiration and knowledge from people that you probably wouldn't otherwise. If you're like, oh, my manager will take care of it, they're not going to be the one that lets that nugget sink in that you wake up at 2 a.m., you know, thinking about that, then inspires and drives you to go do something else. And echo if you didn't come out to Woodward PA, you know, yes, it was a fun week skateboarding and hanging out with the kids, but if you didn't do that, you didn't have to do that. You could have done something else. If you didn't do that, you wouldn't have met lo file, which obviously led to some scratch tracks on this song, which is pretty amazing to hear.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Well then, dude, great, great uh segue back in. Welcome back to Loyal to the Craft on Adobe Radio here, talking with Low Spear and Echo about their new project, Ninth Key. Let's talk about the impact that you guys have had in your careers so far writing music, putting out music videos, touring, meeting fans on social media and in real life. I've seen the videos, I've seen the stories about how impactful your music and your messages are. And I've had the chance to talk with both of you, whether we were at dinner or at Camp Woodward, talking about music and where that comes from. You guys both write from deep places, whether it's anxiety, mental health, you know, autoimmune. Where are you guys pulling that inspiration from? And how have you found that merging together now writing for your project that's not your solo project, where it's actually something that you guys have under the same band name?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

I'll let you talk. I feel like I've been talking a bunch.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Oh, that's a that's a that's a really interesting question. Um, because I think a big piece of when when we started writing, I think I was in just a creative uh drought. You know, I felt like I'd said everything that I've said so many times, and I was kind of getting lost in my own story and not realizing what was important about my life and what I had been through and and the things that I've experienced that are important to me and that are unique to me. And I guess like the the personal is universal, and I always forget that, you know, especially when writing sometimes. And when when I sit down and we start writing with and and Josh and I write together, he's always big on pushing me to be more personal, to dig a little bit deeper, to get a little more human and whatever I'm making. And a lot of times it's not exactly this the exact route that I would go, but it's a different way for me to look at things so I can creatively kind of change things up, or I can kind of like bounce off of whatever he's talking about. And when we sit down and we're writing lines together, I I can bounce an idea off of him and and then he rides that wave and and we come into different ideas. Like we had a text thread that was for like what two days where we were trying to figure out the last line of a song and just going back and forth of like maybe this one, maybe this one, maybe this one. Um but it's just I've I've always written from a place of like being honest about where I'm at in my life. And I've I I know that that connects with people in a certain way, and and I've heard that from people, and I try not to let that influence what I'm making. You know, I try and just try to like keep it true to myself as much as I can. And you obviously want to be able to make an impact on people and and help somebody, and if that's the byproduct, then that's incredible. I try not to set out with that intention. I try to set out with the intention of being as like honest as as possible. Um, but it's always been important to me just to be genuine. If it is mental health or even on the opposite side, if it's about like things that you like, like when I would talk about some. Nerdy stuff or movies or whatever it is, like just being genuinely yourself, not only your your your issues, but the things that you enjoy. And I think we dove into that part in this record as well. And we're kind of able to just like be a little bit unhinged and just have fun, which for us is a side I think people don't get to see a lot, where it's like, okay, yeah, we are, you know, I have these problems. Uh, there's all this part, but also let's just like let loose and go fucking crazy on a couple of these songs. And to me, that's really something special on the record.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Yeah, I have I have quite a bit of philosophy on on songwriting. Something that I really love to do with anyone that I'm writing with, whether it's for my own art or for anyone else's that I co-write with. Um, I just love to sit and like talk and and kind of bullshit for like an hour or two hours so that I can kind of get a peek at who they are, where they've been, what they're going through, what matters to them. And usually they'll tell the story and then I'll hear something out of it that kind of gets highlighted to me, and I'm like, wow, that like really hit me in a way. And I'll like kind of give it back to them. And it's almost like taking a highlighter to their own thoughts, where it's like, I don't think a lot of people are conscious of what really matters to them and what really like weighs heavy on them because a lot of people write off things that are are either difficult or like big achievements, even like big things you're supposed to celebrate, like anything. I I think uh a lot of people like tend to kind of like mute their emotions, and so when you're able to deliver their own story like back to them and the part that resonated with you the most, the song always falls out of that conversation. And so, like within like an hour or two hours, it's always right there, and it's so easy to write the song. Um, and I think at the end of the day, something I've I've told literally every artist I've ever worked with, um, or any writer, I think anyone who listens to music and loves music listens to music and looks for a song where they can see just a little bit of themselves in that song. You know, I think music is a place where I personally go to relate to something, and whether it's even just like a vibe or a feeling or an emotion, like it doesn't have to be literal. Um, that's what I I use it for, and so many of my friends that are also like very similar to me or or work in music, like also go there for the same purpose. And I think everybody wants to see a little bit of themselves in a song, and so the best thing you can do in service, in stewardship to anyone in songwriting is to write what's actually honest and real and going on with you because everyone is living life, it just may look slightly different, everyone's chapters look different, but everyone's living the same book, you know. Um, and so I think here it was cool because I got to push him to be a little bit more honest and and get in touch with things that maybe he didn't feel comfortable like digging up and bringing to the surface musically, you know, his whole career yet. And then he also pushed me to kind of have fun and take myself less serious at moments and like just kind of be a crazy person, which was a a lot of fun because I feel like I don't I didn't allow myself to do that in a lot of stuff in the in the low spirit chapter. Um and so it's just exciting because it feels fresh and different and new, and we explored so many things, and we didn't give a shit about uh about the rules or what would or wouldn't do well on TikTok. We just made stuff that was inspiring to us, and even the fun songs are still built off of substance and honesty that we felt, um, even if it was silly, you know? And so I just think it's the most important thing ever to just be honest with yourself and your audience and not try to follow the pack and do something that you heard from somebody else because you think it's cool. Um, you know, I think social media has kind of driven us into that avenue, and I think we've got to be the ones to take a left out of it and get back to music being music culture and really delivering things that matter um and kind of setting the bar an example again, you know?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, dude, I got Josh to rap on the on the album. It's true, he did.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Sick. Is that your first time rapping actually under the record button?

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Ever. Yeah, ever. It's so sick.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

I can't wait. I can't wait, man.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I'm like, I'm still like, yeah, I don't know. But well, I'll have to own it either way. That's the scary part.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Well, talk to me about, you know, not everybody out there is is a musician, right? There's a lot of young, up-and-coming creators that want to do what you guys are doing and might be afraid to put their first demo out or have that conversation with friends at high school or whatever. You know, talk to me about belonging and finding your tribe. You talked about it a little bit ago, Josh. You know, having that social media platform where you can do it yourself. It doesn't start just overnight. You have to build it and you have to find your tribe. You have to feed the tribe, you have to be a part of that community. Talk to me about, you know, the industry as a whole and creatives out there that might not have put music out yet, that may be trying to sort through different emotions and might not know how, or looking at a musician that might have those be in that toxic cycle that music culture in this industry kind of inherently just drives because of all social media, TikTok, and all the things that you try to play the game in the system to quote unquote make it. What are some healthy coping mechanisms that you guys have developed over the years that have worked for you? You know, Josh, your journeys always inspired me talking about your mental health struggles or your autoimmune condition that not many people actually talk about. And I remember first finding you on social media, not just liking your music, but I started following you because I was like, the things you talk about resonate with me. I have, you know, my son has autoimmune things, and I was like, this dude talks about it. Nobody talks about stuff because either they're afraid to, they might get shamed or they're gonna try, you know, whatever it may be. What messages have you told yourself that you to get you to this point of actually talking about it, writing music and putting it out there that you think a young musician or creative should hear so that they can develop the confidence to do those reps to get to where you guys are today?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Totally. I think um, one, thank you about the autoimmune thing. I still get really self-conscious about that, like talking about it online all the time because I'm thinking about how people like either judge me or roll their eyes or feel like I'm complaining all the time. But one thing I will say is like failure is your is your greatest teacher. I think uh you're you're gonna create bad songs, you're gonna have bad moments, you're gonna have embarrassing moments, you're gonna have people talk shit about you, you're gonna have people tell you that you'll never be able to do it, that you're not good enough, you're gonna have all these things happen. But here's the thing is that like I remember writing songs in high school and thinking they were so sick, and then I would I would show them to people and like people like wouldn't get gassed on them, and I'd get so like offended and upset, but then I would like listen to them like two years later and be like, yeah, it was terrible. You know what I mean? Um, it's kind of one of those things where like sometimes it creeps up on you because as your tastes change and your life experience changes, the way you create music also changes. I think everything occurs very naturally. And one thing I'm gonna say is trust the process. Um and no, you're not gonna be perfect at it at first. Um, you know, you're gonna fall on your ass, you're gonna create bad shit, but it it is what it is, and I think life works in the way where it closes doors you're not meant to walk through, and it opens the doors that you are. Um and I'll say that with uh with the context of being like, you know, um, it happens in life and it happens in music if this is what you choose as your path. But like for me, it's like my I was chasing being a producer. Uh I got really sick, I lost everything, and it forced me to start kind of posting these tiny covers um so that I could relearn to sit with my anxiety um and reteach myself to sit down and work and be able to get my life back together. And ultimately that led to the TikToks that started sad songs only and then became low spirit, and it like completely changed my life. And it was like the worst, the worst moment of worst moments of my life like gave me the opportunity to walk through the door of my best life I could have imagined. Um, and it's not only that, but it's like maybe I wasn't meant to make records forever for other people. Maybe I was meant to make records for myself. Um, and so when one door closes, another opens. When you write a bad song, it teaches you what about that song wasn't great to you or other people or things that you can do better, and then you walk through the right door and you write a better song next time. Um, so I think it's more so like be open to failure, be open to uh things changing around you, be open to rejection, um, and don't let it completely destroy you and and make you feel like less of a person. Um and you know, I mean just being totally open and candid, like um I I was with uh my management company since the beginning of my career um in 2022, and I literally got dropped by them two weeks ago, you know, after my album came out. And um and yeah, it was like kind of strange because it felt like, well, we did all this planning and um you know I spent three years developing and creating this record and um and everybody disappeared after the first week because it it didn't, you know, didn't perform as well as I guess everybody was like hoping it would. Um and there was a part of me that was really upset about it and was like kind of angry, you know. Um and there was a part of me that felt like I failed. But then we kind of also had this stuff brewing in the background that was ours, that was a passion project that we were just making over the past like year or two years, and I was like, maybe maybe this was meant to kind of fall apart for a minute so that I could go chase this other thing and walk through this door that I didn't expect to. Um, neither one of us really did, like a year ago, you know. Um and so what's meant for you will never pass you. Failure is your greatest teacher. Rejection can also be your second greatest teacher. And um what might feel offensive and might feel terrible and world-ending might actually be life-giving, you know? Um, and so I guess that's my my point in all of this is just like be open to whatever wills itself into existence into your path, because it's always going to be a teacher, whether it's good or bad. And as long as you just never stop, it'll be fine. It will be.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

That's great advice. Echo, what about you? Where do you pull from when you're writing and what what kind of you know struggles and things are you going through to kind of overcome those hurdles that music is helping, you know, break through for you.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

I mean Yeah, follow that up, dude.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Well, it's just like there's always something to pull from. It's whether or not you want to go there for me a lot of times. And when things are good, it's really difficult for me to write about like things when I'm in the moment. I usually have to come out the other side and look back and kind of write and then like kind of go off of it. But I mean I think just in the last year, like my my brother took his own life and went through a breakup. Uh a lot of other stuff, just you know, life doesn't stop happening. And if you can pull from what's going on, and a lot of times it's not even maybe from the exact thing that I'm going through, but the idea or the feeling that I'm in. A lot of, you know, especially with with men, I think it's difficult for for men to talk about deep subjects sometimes and and things that that we're going through. And to have somebody to listen to that is able to speak about those things. I think for everyone is important, for young men is incredibly important to me. Um because there's the you know the the loneliness that a lot of people can feel, especially with internet and and all that kind of stuff, you know, being more connected but more disconnected than we've ever been in our entire lives, and feeling insecure and not wanting to talk about it, or feeling angry and not knowing who to tell about it, and not knowing who to speak about, and feeling like nobody gives a fuck. And that's kind of where I've always operated from is like nobody gives a fuck, I need to do it on my own. And that sunk its way into my career, and I've been like, nobody gives a fuck, I have to do it on my own. When I was a kid, it was like nobody gives a fuck, I gotta do this on my own. So if you want to be a musician, you have to have thick skin, man. That's for sure. And and if you don't have it, you'll grow it eventually, or you'll quit. And that's just kind of what it is. And I think Josh was spot on with a lot of it is just how much can you withstand? And how much can you take and stick around and still be here tomorrow? Because a lot of this is just I just am still here. You know what I mean? And which is great because we have that song, we have a song kind of that is about a lot of the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Um it's literally called I'm still here, I'll say it.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh but you know how difficult it is to be a meme? You know, being a local rapper is like a meme. It's a it's it's an embarrassing, it's not like I wouldn't tell people I wouldn't tell girlfriends' parents that that's what I did. I would kind of just do it almost not shamefully, but it was just like I don't want to fucking talk about this to anybody. You know, it's kind of like people make fun of it until you make it, and then nobody's really laughing anymore. So you just have to believe in yourself almost to a point where it's it's a little bit delusional. You know, and if you do show a song to somebody like this is me, if I showed a song to somebody that was a friend and they like didn't like it, I just be like, Yeah, you're fucking stupid. Or you just don't get it, you're too close to me. You you you know what I mean? And I still feel that way with a lot of things. I think if somebody's too close to I don't show music to friends a lot of the time because they're just a little too close, and it's not the same sort of reaction or what I'm really looking for. I'm looking for the person who needs this song. That's that's the reaction I want, you know? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah, well, perseverance is huge, and you you have to have that DIY spirit. And I mean, even if you do get lucky and you get the labels and the management, you got to be able to understand what you're dealing with, and that DIY work ethic has to be there, unless you're gonna get taken advantage of or you're just not gonna know what's coming, and you're not gonna be able to help stack the vision and turn it into a strategy to actually persevere through the hurdles that are inevitably gonna happen in life. So we're gonna take one more quick break, and when we come back, I want to talk about a little bit more of the writing process with you guys, weird rituals, how you deal with creative differences now that you're writing for the same project together. We'll be right back. Yo, what's up? I'm Mike, and for the past 25 years, I've been building a career in music. So I know for a fact it is possible to chase your dreams in the music industry. And we're not gatekeeping any knowledge, we're sharing everything that we know, and we're bringing artists together to create a community so that you can learn from their mistakes and their triumphs. Loves of the craft brings it all to you. Make sure you're following along. You're not gonna want to miss it. And if we're in your city, I can't wait to meet it for you guys out there. All right, what's up, Adobe? We're here, back of Love to the Craft with Echo and Low Spirit talking about ninth key. We're days away from their first song coming out, and we've had a great conversation so far about chasing the dream, persevering through all the struggles and hurdles of life, the music business, and getting to the point that you guys are at now, collaborating on your new project. Talk to me about the writing process together. Do you have any weird rituals? We talked about hyping each other up to get deep with lyrics. How do you deal with creative differences? Have you ever kind of come up to something where you guys totally disagreed? And how have you overcome that? Has it been smooth? Talk to me about the process so far.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

I think it's been pretty smooth, honestly. We don't really have creative differences because we're both just like after the same thing. We're just like, how cool can we make this part? Like when it comes to like we'll we'll focus on it in two parts. Like, one is just the songwriting aspect. Um, and then the second one is we kind of put everything under the microscope for like production when we just try to make choices on on how to make something as cool as fucking possible to us. Um and we'll get like really into the nuances and details of things. As far as songwriting goes, like we have like literally never butted heads. It's always we'll always be like, I think we can I think we can beat that. But like it's never like no dude, like I don't. I think that this is it. Like we've we've never had that happen.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

So I think we butted heads on one word. Did we? I remember it. I will never forget it because I was wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

But was it was it figure eight?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah, it was figure eight.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Uh great line, by the way. Um but yeah, I mean, I think it really comes down to trusting the person that you're writing with. Like, I trust Josh and I trust his taste. And I know that like, even if at first glance, I'm kind of like, uh I don't know about that. I know like just trust him because he's an incredible writer and just see it all the way through. And every time it it ends up being for for the best, you know. But we're able to really bounce things off of each other and like hear each other out on different ideas. And it's to me, it's it's been incredibly easy. And I'm not I've been an independent artist my entire life. I don't I don't like writing with people. You know, I I don't like anybody telling me what to do. And I've never even recorded I've recorded with like one other person, but even like when I was with Maddie, I remember one of the first sessions that we had when Maddie was in the room and we left. I was like, um, I was like, have you ever seen me like listen to somebody like that? And he was like, No. And I was like, because I do, I trust, I trust you, even when I'm recording, you're like, do it this way. I'm like, all right, I wouldn't have normally, but let's try it. And it ends up being good. So, you know, developing a trust with the person that you're working with and really respecting them as a songwriter and as an artist and as a creative, if if that's there, then it makes it makes it much easier to me.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

What do you think it was about Josh that made you trust him? Was it things that he had done previously? Was it how he made you feel? You know, we talked about almost being a therapist with artists when they're in the room with him, kind of going deep of what's bothering them or what they like. What made you trust Josh? And how can a how can a young artist that wants to produce develop those skills like Josh has to make somebody like you trust them?

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Well, I I think the biggest thing is is the the proof. If you don't like what the person has made before, chances are you're probably not gonna like whatever they do with you. So that's the first thing is like I'm just a fan of of all of the songwriting. But even when it comes down to the recording process, if I know like I think Josh on a on a daily basis is not as confident as he is when you step into the room. And when you step into the room, he's very confident with his decision making, which is a really difficult thing for most artists and some producers. You want somebody who's confident is like, no, do it this way because it's gonna be really just trust me, it's gonna be sick. Just try it this way and give me a second, I will prove it to you. And you do it, and then they they prove it to you, and you're like, okay, yeah, you were right. That was a really cool idea. Let's let's do more of that. And it's like, when you know that they're really taking an interest in you and want you to sound as best as you can sound. And I knew it, you know, especially I'm like, well, he's on the song, he's of course gonna make it, want it to be as best as possible. So that was like one thing that was always in the back of my head. Uh but even if not, like I trust that he uh would have done that anyways, but it's like uh do it this way, it's gonna be sick, and your voice would sound cool doing this, and it's really somebody taking an interest in you and the skills that you have and pulling out the best things that you have to offer, even things that you might not notice because you've been doing it for so long, and you're like, Oh, I didn't even know that was cool, and somebody that can pull it out. So it's taking interest, being skilled in what you're doing, being confident in your decision making, and really caring.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

How did you get there, Josh? Did you have mentors or did somebody make you feel that way that you kind of took a page from their book, or what how did you develop that skill set?

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Um, just years and years and years of doing it and working with other artists. Um, it's kind of funny because it's sort of the same way that I became a singer in the first place. Um, because I only started really singing in about 2021, so about five years ago. Um and how crazy is that, by the way? What the fur? Um well, before that, I was working with singers, uh specifically doing vocal production mostly in in the studio. Um, so tuning, editing, comping, uh, tracking, directing takes. Um, and so it wasn't that I was like singing to communicate with other singers on On what I wanted to hear on the record. It was more so just trying to communicate the nuances and things that would deliver the certain feeling or emotion of a line, lyric, or mood of a song. And so years just kind of like doing that and giving myself the chance and opportunity to work with other people and other minds, especially other singers, really gave me a fundamental understanding on how they operate, what makes them feel comfortable and safe, what makes them feel confident, because if I can make them feel those things, then I'm gonna get the best out of them. And I know that all of those things are the recipe to a great song. You can have a great drummer, you can have a great bassist, you can have a great guitar player. Um, but I mean the the reality is that the singer is the most important part of a band or a song because it's the most human element. It's the thing that everyone identifies with. And I feel like it needs the most love, attention, and care. Um, and so I've just spent, I mean, it literally has been 15 years at this point doing it. Um and I did have a mentor, uh, more or less, I wouldn't call him the mentor, uh, more so like a best friend that I grew up learning how to produce with. His name was Lee Rouse. Um him and I ran a studio together in Atlanta um for about like nine years. Um, he worked on a lot of the Teddy Swim stuff. We worked on a lot of like rock stuff and metalcore stuff over the years together. Then we went our separate ways, came back, and then uh we've always had a really good working relationship. And we used to just sit in the room and watch, I don't know if you remember those creative live videos. Um, this was like before Nail the Mix and all that. So I remember like Chris Crummet was like a big, a big one, like Sam Pira, um Joel Wanasek, uh Joey Sturgis, all those dudes would like kind of sit down and create videos, and we would just sort of nerd out and watch those. And we would just make terrible sounding records together until we figured it out. Um, and really that's just what it is. It's just a matter of putting in the hours. Um, so it's the same thing as being an artist. Just keep going, and eventually you'll develop the skills and tools you need to make the art on the level that you want to make it. It's just going to take time, it's going to take failure, and it's going to take rejection, you know, to like shape um how you identify like issues and specialties um in people and you know, recording and like delivery. Um so I'm I'm super blessed to just have that many, I I guess like that 15 years under my belt of working with other singers to be in a point where you know Jeff can walk in the booth and like trust me. And also I do have the advantage of like being involved in the project. So obviously, as he said, like I'm not gonna let anything suck, you know. Um, it's it's all gonna be great. So if I have an idea, I'm like, let's just try it. And also, we're not running out of tape. So if it does suck, we can delete it and do it another way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Putting in the reps. Yeah, we got we got your new track, If I wasn't me, coming out any day now. Adobe listeners, head over to ninth key, give them a follow. What can we expect? What's the rollout look like? Is it this song, and then you got stacks behind it? What do you how's the rollout looking over the next few weeks?

SPEAKER_00 47:18

It's so crazy that the song is finally coming out. This is the first song we made for the record.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, it is. It's like it's going after good things, right? Yeah, that would be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

How does it feel? I mean, you guys have been you guys have been putting in the reps, obviously, decades of individual and collaborative work together and individually, but your days away from this track coming out. How does it actually feel? I mean, you just you just kind of said it. Uh Echo, what what what are what's the feelings right now?

SPEAKER_00 47:47

I've never been more excited about any about anything in my career ever. I think this I like I said it in this post. I didn't tell you, John. I was like, this is gonna be the biggest, one of the biggest bands in the genre. I'm I've I fucking know it, dude. It's so Mike, it's so good, dude. It's it's it's like it's it's a sound that everybody is like been like waiting for. Like we're like we like yearning for to hear it again, and but it's got this modern like infusion of it, and it's just it's so like nostalgic and modern at the same time. It has a foot in the past and a foot in the future, and it's like he absolutely crushed it, I absolutely crushed it, the production is amazing. It's like I think people don't even know what they're gonna get. And we like every song is a single. So I think that's our difficult part with like even doing this rollout is like how many singles do we do? Because everyone deserves its time. And I know people talk like this to like market something, but I'm I'm uh I'm so fucking honest when I'm like this is the best shit. It is so good, and I know like it's hard for I don't gas up my stuff, my solo stuff this much because it's it's difficult because I I can't really listen to my stuff objectively, but I'm able to kind of because Josh is on a lot of it to listen more objectively, and I'm just like, yeah, this is this is it, man. This is my favorite stuff.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

I think that's the coolest part about all of this is that it is like both of us, and you're kind of the yin to my yang because I'm like I've fallen on my face so many times that I'm like, I have no idea what to expect with anything anymore, you know? Um, so it's like really nice to have like Jeff on the other side kind of balancing it out and being like, no, this shit's fucking awesome. I'm like, all right, sick, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Hell yeah. So the song comes out this week. What is the plan after that? Are you gonna you'll be pushing that song for a little bit? You got songs coming out after that? Like, what can what can people expect and what should we be uh what what what can we tease right now?

SPEAKER_00 49:56

I don't think we're gonna make people wait that long between songs, right?

unknown 50:00

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

There's too much. Like it's not like we have an eight-song record, we have like a 13-song record. Like it's a full album.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Will you will you just drop singles or will you drop a chunk at a time, or how how will that look? Have you guys planned that out yet?

SPEAKER_00 50:16

I believe, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the idea is to release an amount of singles just all leading towards the album. We have the full album finished, and so it's songs kind of just getting us towards the release of the album.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

So I don't know how many, but we're doing this on our own with no team really, and uh no idea of rollout. We're just kind of putting music out into the ether and seeing what happens, and I think that that's exciting for both of us because we're like, fuck it, let's just operate on our impulses and like whatever we feel like compelled to do in a moment. And I think that that feels so freeing after feeling so regimented for so many years, you know?

SPEAKER_01 50:57

That's really cool, and I'm so excited for you guys. Congratulations on being at this point. I'm so stoked to see the rollout, hear the song in full, hear the rest of the songs. Everyone go give Ninth Key a follow. Josh, Jeff, thank you guys so much for hanging on Loyal to the Craft here on Adobe Radio. Go check out what yeah, dude. Appreciate you guys so much. Everybody out there, go check out loyalthecraft.com, give us a follow. Again, make sure you're following the band. And man, I mean, doing it independently, and like you said, you don't know what the future holds. Uh, Josh, you and I have talked privately about this, you know, the struggles of touring, and everybody talks about it right now, how much how much it costs just to go on the road right now. But obviously, with some of the autoimmune health conditions that you have, it makes it incredibly difficult to go on the road. Do you guys see doing pop-ups in LA and the West Coast? Like, if the right thing came up, would you take a tour? Like, what are your some of your ambitions on hitting the road?

SPEAKER_02 51:52

I th I think so. Um, I mean, we definitely have plans to to play for sure. But I think like, as I said earlier, like when you have a bunch of people on your team that are expecting you to do a certain amount of shows or do things this way or do things that way, it feels it feels like I'm being pressured to perform at a level that might not actually be practical for somebody like me. Um, and so I think with this, we've been kind of talking to some like um some managers like about the prospect of working together, and that's the thing they ask the most is like, well, what about touring? And it's like, well, here's the reality, you know, like and here's what's happening. So I think the cool thing about this is that right now we have no one to answer to, and so we can play wherever we want when we want. Um, and I think our our plan as of right now is just to like put out the music and see if people are digging it and if people like it and if we're like creating a demand. And I think we definitely want to play, and if the right opportunities present themselves, like I certainly don't see us saying no, you know. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Well, everybody again go go follow the guys, make sure you comment, engage with everything, let them know. Uh, keep keep keep pushing it, make this the biggest thing ever. I want to see you guys on tour, I want to see you putting out tons of music. I'm sure you will uh fuel the habit, support emerging artists, support independent artists doing exactly what these guys are doing. Shout out Adobe for having loyalty to the craft on here. Shout out to our great friends over at DistroKid who also support independent artists and keep chasing your dreams, guys. Thanks so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Okay, thanks, Mike.