Episode 9 - Gareth Cuddy Bizmark.ie

Gareth is a serial entrepreneur and after running and selling the hugely successful E-pub business, after spotting a gap in the market for owners looking to sell their business, he has now set up Bizmark AI. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

So I'd like to welcome along Garrett Cuddy to the latest episode of the 8020 Accountant Podcast. Garrett, thanks very much for joining me today. No problem. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I think I've known you quite I've known you probably online quite a few years anyway, because you had ePUB, I remember eBooks, um, and then you started Bismarck.ie, Bismarck AI, which again is an area I'd be very, very interested in. So listen, thanks very much for joining us. And maybe, maybe just to kick us off, would you like to tell us a bit about your entrepreneurial journey from EPUB now on to Bismarck?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, sure. So so um I hate the phrase, but serial entrepreneur, I suppose, is the best description.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I like it. Um been knocking around uh in this space for quite a bit of time, particularly in the technology space. So back in 2009, I started a company out of Cork, um, which became first the kind of biggest ebook distribution company in Europe, um, scaled that into the states where you know we had a lot of large customers, um, and that actually ended up kind of changing into more of an analytics company, right? So dealing with large volumes of data and looking at various different kinds of markets around the world. Okay, um, so that was a good journey. Then went into the corporate life in America for a while, spent about 10 years in the States and moved back to Ireland in 2023.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Okay, pretty good. And were you acquired? Is this that way you ended up in the US or was it um a different?

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yes, so I end up in the US because you know, like most Irish companies, the Irish market is quite small for any industry. Um, so first of all, went to the UK, got most of the biggest customers there, and then ultimately end up in the US because their parent companies were there. Yeah so one thing I've learned over uh I suppose this journey is particularly with large enterprise clients, that they want to see you in person, they want to see you real. Um, especially in the States, they want to see that you have a US presence. Both I guess it gives them some comfort from you know, even a gap perspective, but also um, you know, knowing that you're invested uh in the market, I think is really important. So that's why I went over there as kind of you know, I suppose the lead commercial person as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Brilliant, yeah. And the Bismarck. So just tell us a bit about Bismarck in terms of um how you came along and saw the opportunity and started Bismarck.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, I suppose um when I came back. So what actually, while I was in the States, every 18 months or so I'd buy a small company, um, typically in the technology space. Um, you know, developers are brilliant at creating tools and software, but often aren't great at the sales and marketing or the brand.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

So um, you know, tip typically small five-figure deals, um, there's marketplaces in the US for this, and I could see the rise of, you know, with AI as well, but also um, you know, what they call microsat, which are you know small teams building products. So I would buy one of those, kind of you know, put lipstick on it, so to speak, you know, fix it so that it's it's suited customers better, and then set then typically sell it on again. So I'd done that a few times in the US and I was planning on doing it here in Ireland when I came back as well. Yeah, and I realized there was kind of no form for that. So the idea behind Bismarck really is think about a kind of daft.ie for businesses, right? So if you're thinking of selling side product project or side hustle, or maybe it's a family business, typically what you do is you go to your local accountant and you know they may know somebody, but that's not really giving you much exposure. So the idea behind Bismarck is a marketplace where you can list your business for sale, engage with vetted buyers, and then you know, hopefully conclude the transaction through that. Okay. You said vetted buyers, is it? Yeah, so so so yeah, there's there's a general kind of populace out there, obviously, but we also have registered buyers who have gone through a process um of vetting, both in terms of you know, they are who they say they are, they're not spoofers, some may provide a proof of funds. So there is a vetting process there as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Okay. Um, and maybe tell me a bit about that. Are they are they people who buy businesses? Uh would it be in a certain certain sector? Would they buy across different sectors? Yeah, it's a real mix.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

They're um but what's interesting is is when you look at the market itself, right? That there's about a million and a half business owners will retire in Ireland and the UK in the next five or six years. Yeah. The majority of those, about 65%, are family businesses. They often pass them on. Usually most family businesses, unfortunately, are kind of dead by the third generation. Um or these days, increasingly the kids don't want to take over the businesses, right? That that's yeah, that's their mom's thing, and so they want to leave that go. So there's there's kind of a large number of businesses coming on the market, and then from a buyer's perspective, you have everything from private equity funds who are looking to roll up an industry. Like I'm sure you're aware, there's been a lot of uh accounting practices rolled up over, right? Yes. Um, so there's some of those players, but a lot of them are individuals who maybe are executives at companies that have a bit of spare cash that are looking for other income streams. Um, and also, you know, the country we live in, unfortunately, a lot of young people don't see much opportunity for themselves. But one of those ways of getting opportunity is by rather than starting a business with a 95% failure rate, is acquiring an existing business and maybe putting some of yourself or some efficiencies into that. So there's quite a large market of businesses out there. There's quite a big appetite amongst buyers, but there's no kind of real introductory service or marketplace to connect them.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah. Um, yeah, and look, it's a space I'd be I'd have a keen interest in, I follow because like I've worked with my own background as management accounting and then on the consulting. So like I've worked with I know about 700 SMEs in Ireland, mostly Ireland, UK over the years. And you can see it like it's if it's not front of mine or middle, it's somewhere in the mind is at some stage you're gonna have to step back from the business. So, like, what's gonna happen with my income? Is my business sellable? And most of them, of course, totally overestimate the value of the business. They might think it's worth a million, but it's worth about it might be worth about 200 grand because most of them are way too involved in the business, okay? And they step away and you know, the client relationships and the processes, they don't have the processes or the people, they probably deal with all the clients and so on. So it's an area I'd be you know familiar with from that perspective. Um, you've business brokers um who you know have uh mixed reputations, let's say, you heard all kinds of stories about some some of them anyway. Um, so just tell me a bit about uh the you looked at this space and thought, um, I can offer, I can add something to this. So just tell me a bit about that, please, in terms of what do you feel you do differently from what's there at the moment? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

So um, you know, it's it's funny you kind of mentioned accountants there as well, is yeah, if you if you went to your accountant and you said, you know, 80% of my net worth is tied up in Bitcoin, they go, Are you mad? You have to diversify, there's different things you put your money into. But for business owners, that's typically the case, right? 80% of their of their net worth is tied up in their business and they don't really have kind of an exit strategy. Yes. Um, so that's that's part of the challenge as well, I think. Um, the way I look at this is just like daft.ae, right? You can go to your local estate agent, put your house up for sale in the town, but that limits your market.

unknown 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

This mark allows you to appear to you know the whole country and beyond. We we've registered buyers in the UK, the US, um a lot of expats, actually, which is interesting. So it broadens your exposure. The other thing that we were careful to build as well is you can actually conduct the entire transaction through the website as well. So by that I mean create your listing. Um, obviously, buyers can come and look at that. They have to be registered if they want to look at the details of it. We can keep everything anonymous, that's not an issue. But then, you know, if somebody wants to reach out to you, there's a chat function there, but they also have to sign an NDA before they do that. Okay. Then we also have a data room for your due diligence where you can interact both with your, you know, with the buyer, with your accountants, with your lawyers. Everything can be managed through the platform, so everything's kept in one place and simplified. Okay. So, like I said, that there's the introduction piece, which I think is important, getting you the maximum market exposure, and then there's also the ability to manage everything in one place.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, it sounds brilliant. I mean, I love what you're saying about the expats. I mean, that it sounds like the market, you know, you're you're expanding the market probably from maybe a local one, which was traditionally, to it could be buyers in the UK, it could be Irish people living in the States, living anywhere, who could be buying the business for themselves, or maybe like you touched on earlier on, it could be a son or daughter who um, you know, maybe sees uh there's a better opportunity to maybe go and acquire a business, um beyond line often different types of businesses.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

So valuations are obviously often the tricky part, like you mentioned. But often, yeah, if you can put together one or two different types of businesses, there's actually a lot more inherent value in that whole rather than in individual components, right? Yeah, and I've I've seen that a couple of times where people are um you know acquiring a business that looks like has nothing to do with theirs, but actually provides a lot of efficiency to their business, so it kind of has that double impact of new revenue, new customers, but also better margins on your own business side.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Okay, yeah. Um, and even the online part of it is very interesting. The NDAs that are right have it. So let's just maybe slight devil's advocate here now, uh, Garrett. Okay. So you've somebody which, you know, let's say you have a guy who's 50, has a business, he wants to get out in two years' time, he thinks it's worth a million. Okay, so he signs on with Bismarck, puts it up there, and realizes the business might not be worth 200 grand for all the reasons I touched on before. So this guy now it's a bit of a bit of a wake-up call for him. Um, he needs to get his ducks in a row, he needs to put in the processes and the people and so on, right? Get contracts someplace with his main clients and so on. So you know yourself, there's a lot of ducks that have to get in a row there. So, how does how does that work with Bismarck? Because it sounds like Bismarck is a great concept. It's kind of like I'm my impression is if all the ducks are in a row, this works brilliantly. But what happens if those ducks aren't in a row and this business owner has to do 10 different things before they can get the the value they want? How does that work?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah, no, great question. I I think one thing I would say is you're always learning in any business. One thing I learned pretty quickly is yeah that almost nobody has all their ducks in a row, right? Yeah, I know. So, you know, in ideal world, people would come sign up, do everything themselves, but really there's a lot of hand holding from my side. Um, so a lot of the work I'm doing now with business owners is very hands-on, right? It's helping them coordinate their accounts. You need three years good accounts for any business, really, to be able to sell. Yes. Um, you also need to, you know, have some key documents ready. So we're helping with that. In terms of valuation, there's one a couple of things we've done. One is we we have a free valuation calculator on the site, which gives you an indication, and again, a rough indication of what your business is worth, which are based on thousands and thousands of previous transactions. Okay. So that does help some people with the sticker shock, so to speak, right? They say, Oh, maybe you know, I give them a range, but but maybe I need to think about this. Yeah, the other thing with valuations that's important as well is um there are a couple of factors, right? So if you're you touched on it earlier, if you're very heavily involved in your business, that's a bit of a red flag for an acquirer, right? Because they can't easily replace you. Yes, Neil knows everybody in the business, he's best buddies with most of his major customers. That's a challenge, right? That that decreases your valuation. So having that kind of either a succession plan or way of removing yourself from the day-to-day of the business, I think is important. You also have from a valuation perspective, AI is really interesting because it's a big buzzword. Let's be honest, most of us have our heads in the sand over it, don't deal with it. Um, but it has both kind of neg negatives and positives. So a lot of kind of white-collar businesses, accounting practices, law firms, etc., their valuations are being hit pretty hard by AI because people can see that particularly at the entry level or the standardized level, that that's going to replace things pretty quickly. But actually, for more traditional businesses, blue-collar businesses, their valuations are going up because people can say, actually, you know, you could bring a bit of AI into that plumbing business now, uh, around the scheduling or whatever, and add a good bit of business to that. Or a good example is one of my clients has bought five coffee shops in the last seven, eight months. Yeah. And just by automating his payroll, he's added an extra seven, eight percent to the bottom line. Wow. Which is significant across portfolio.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah. That's funny, isn't it? Yeah, it is, yeah. Blue collar being kind of being more of a sure bet, like than the accountant or solicitor, you know. It's kind of a funny one.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

So just more levers to pull, right? In terms of either increasing your sales or margin or reducing your cost.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, because look, I was only reading last week and last week or two about legal firms. I was I actually had a chat with an accountant earlier on, and I was only saying to him about, look, I was reading recently, only last weekend, it was on the paper there about legal firms, their clients are not coming along, kind of going because they're reading, they're using AI, okay? So now their clients are coming along for discounts, you know, because they're saying, hey, you're using AI to do my work, you know. I I'm not gonna pay the same price for that. So I mean, it's gonna come that's everything's gonna hit accountants very soon, kind of like you were saying. Um, and Gareth, you mentioned AI there, so just tell me a bit more about AI, Willie, in terms of say your own business and and how you think even other sectors, how that's gonna indirectly uh maybe impact your Bismarck.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yes, so I've been knocking around with AI for a good six, seven years in different capacities. Um, okay, but really obviously the last couple of years has seen it take off mainstream. Um, you know, a lot of buzz about it, but like most things, it's probably not as simple or or the there's no silver bullet in business generally, right? And AI, yeah. So you mentioned as well that you know, one of the things that does affect valuation and also it's really important AI is do you have standard operating procedures? Do you have how you do business written down? Because people will often say, Oh, I want to bring AI into the business, and I'll talk to them because I do a bit of consulting on that side as well, and they'll say, Oh, I want to bring in AI. I was like, in what way? Oh, we just want to kind of AI everything. You're like, No, no, you have to have a specific problem or a specific need. I'll give you a good example, an accountant client of mine, they have um, you know, like many, they get uh commission on a regular basis from pension funds, but they have a a pain a pain point where they get these bulk deposits into their account from these businesses. It's really tricky to reconcile it with the policy that that's for. So it takes two, three days a month for a bookkeeper to do that, whereas mapped out properly, AI can do it in a couple of minutes, right? It's those little wins on the fringes that will compound is where AI I think is most useful for your your everyday business. Yeah, yeah. Um for me, I use it probably three hours a day. Um, and I use it primarily as a thought partner in terms of hey, I'm thinking about this. Yes, how would I do that? Yes. Um, I I use it also for um for prototyping a lot, by which I mean, hey, I want to create a dashboard so I can keep track of let's say my stripe payments, my Google traffic, um, my you know, uh the payments I'm behind on, etc. And bring it all into one dashboard. It's very good at doing that kind of thing. Yeah, and then also where I find it most useful in some ways is hey, I want to set up um an account on a new tech like on in a software platform. How do I do that? And its ability to guide you step by step through is is really important. Yeah, sorry, really impressive. Um I think listen, there's a million uses for it, but you have to be intentional. I think intentional is the right word. You have to try and solve a particular problem. I think you can do that very effectively.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah. I do the thought leadership as well as uh or the thought partnership is fabulous as well. Yeah. Um, and you're right, but the intentional, I think, is a bit like you know, Googling or something, or YouTube. You could go on there and or Instagram or something, you could go on there, and next thing is an hour later, you know. It could go that way. So the intention is you're going on there for a specific purpose and almost stay a bit disciplined with it.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Um so the and and one thing that's good with it as well is some of the changes recently. So uh typically, you know, with Chat GPT, you're you're talking to it like you're talking to a chatbot, right? Um, with Claude that I use, they have they have a part of it called co-work where there's a folder that sits on your computer, and that's you you have it for each kind of let's say initiative you're doing. So maybe you have one for your business, you have one for your personal or for your sports part. Yeah, yeah. And it remembers all the conversations you had and saves everything. That's that's where it becomes kind of doubly powerful in terms of you don't have to explain everything every time, it understands the context what you're trying to do. So I think that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

That's only gonna get there. Yeah, Claude is amazing. So some of my um my thought partners or my strategic partners are um Steve Jobs and uh Tony Robbins and Jay Abraham and Perry Marshall and all these people, seven or eight of them. That's fabulous, yeah. Um the you touch there's a couple of things you touched on earlier on, and I wouldn't mind just come back to uh Gareth. The you know, we're talking about the the sticker sticker shock, is it, and the business owner coming along um thinking their business is worth uh a million, it's worth 200 grand, or it's worth nothing because they're too involved in it. So imagine the the challenge of that um with them with the model, which is probably designed really for the ducks being in a row, is my impression anyway, is Bismarck is designed that way. So, how has it been for you in terms of maybe since you started the business to know how has it gone? Is it three years, you say, or or no? So really only launched it this time last year.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

So far, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it hasn't hasn't been my main focus, if I'm honest, until um this year. So spend a lot of last year talking to two sellers in particular, because okay, what we found out pretty quickly is we probably 20 times more buyers than sellers on the platform. Okay, yeah, so there's a real appetite out there, but for many reasons, including getting your ducks in a row, uh sellers are a bit more a bit slower to come forward. Yeah, so we have some bit we have some businesses listed on the site, but most of the businesses that we're dealing with now are not on the site for a lot of reasons. But typically, Irish business owners want to keep things confidential for again a number of reasons. So most of them are dealing kind of off book, um, and you know, dealing with our our buyers, and you have to be registered to be a buyer, but dealing with the buyers directly and working with them on deals. So I think that's kind of um okay, that's been a real learning curve that most people want that really hands-on kind of um you know, okay, attention to the from a seller's perspective.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

That's interesting. That's what's good for you to know as well. Um, good for you to know. So um, yeah, it's it's kind of um uh it's not up there publicly, but they can still be interacting with your registered buyers, uh, your verified buyers.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Um and to on that as well, so sorry, just two other points I want to make as well. And that is a lot of the the sellers I'll go and meet personally because they I think still think that's very important, right? Is to sit down with them. Yeah, to your point about valuation is it's one thing you know, filling out a calculator online, it's another sitting down with somebody and breaking down why you think the valuation looks like this. And there's also a way to say, look, um, you know, let's say you have a business doing 200 grand a year, but you're also doing 40 grand kind of cash on the side, right? Which is which is great, don't tell the tax man. Yeah, but unfortunately, you can't put that into evaluation, even though in your mind that's right. Yes. So so you might have stripped that out, but then you also say, But actually, the business doesn't depend on you. So if we took out your salary, that's an extra 80 grand you're putting back in, seller discretionary earnings. So that does increase the value. So it it really is there's a bit of art to it as well as the science of math. And the other thing that actually I found out more so, um, which you'll be surprised at, is particularly under half a million kind of exits, people undervalue their businesses in some ways. Um, in the in the early months when I was thinking about doing this, I spoke to a couple of people, and the first two people I spoke to actually ended up helping them sell their business. So one was my aunt who had a food business down in the southeast. Okay. Um and her, and I think this is common, and you might be able to talk to this as an accountant, is um herself and her husband have been running a food business for 30 years. Um, not a massive business, you know, very low six figures, but um had been consistent and they were going to retire and just close it down. And I was saying to them, well, look, there's value there, right? You've built up all this equity, both in terms of customers, and don't underestimate how hard it is to get shelf space, by the way, in a supermarket. You have you have everything here, you have a good name, you have a good product. I'm sure somebody'd be interested. And sure enough, we found somebody in that space who you know was able to top up their pension fund nicely, whereas previously they were just going to shut it down and not realize any benefit from it.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, yeah. Very good. Um, and it's interesting. Um, just listening to you there, it sounds like you've been on a learning curve because like you've set up this business which is kind of designed to be online, really, isn't it? Like you were saying earlier on, everything could be done online, and yet you still felt it was important to go meet those two sellers, right? Um like is is that kind of an Irish thing, would you think? Or you know, how much of it is an Irish thing that they wanted to meet you versus if they were in the US or whatever, would it be is is there a cultural thing there or or yeah, how much of it is cultural do you think?

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Yeah, I think there's there is a good degree of of culture in that, right? People in the states are much more inclined to be uh you know, free with the wallet, but also free with their information. They they're less concerned about people finding out, right? Bear in mind, it's a much bigger market, it's not yeah. Um, and I I think that's it's certainly um, like I said, a cultural part, but I also wanted to do that because any business that you're starting, whether it's online or offline, you've got to get to know your customers well. And that's really important, right? Because it influences kind of everything you do. So the more people I meet and and shake hands with and sit down and have a coffee with, the more value I'm actually adding back into the business because I know now what they're looking for, what they need, what's important to them. And we can reflect that in you know the digital part of the business.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah, yeah. Very interesting. The um so what happens if you meet, you know, the the person who's you know wants to sell the business and the ducks aren't in a row because they need the processes and the people, and there's probably two years' work for them to start. Two or three years' work for them to get the ducks in a row, they come along and they meet Garrett. Okay, what happens with them? Can you advise them or guide them? Or do they just have to go in and find their own way and come back to you when they're ready? Or how does that work?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah, so one thing that's attracted me to this business actually is I love, like you mentioned, or I love kind of selling and acquiring companies and you know the deal-making aspect of that. And the fact that it can, you know, without sounding too grandiose, it can change lives on both sides, right? A founder can have a really great exit and be really important to their family. Equally, an acquirer can really be setting up their family for success as well. That's very attractive to me. And that's a long-term thing. AI is not going to kill that, right? These things are still going to happen. So I'm patient in terms of there's some people who want to sell their business yesterday, they have their dots more or less in a row. That's great. There's others where they're only they're only starting to think about it. Um, and so I will give them a framework. I have a one-pager and say, look, here's a minimum we need to start talking to people. Um, here are the other items that we're gonna need to you know push through a deal, and they can go away and start uh you know putting that together. I'm not putting any pressure on them. I was charging um you know a small monthly fee as low as 29 euros to list their business a month. Most of them actually come to me and say, Look, we'd actually like to pay you a uh success fee rather than that, because we need somebody to actually help us get those ducks in a row. So in many ways, even though I wasn't intending to, is I become somewhat of a business broker, right? Just advising.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, yeah. I understand, yeah, yeah. Um yeah, yeah, no, that's great. So that's that's very interesting, Garrett. So you've you've kind of um because of the need, because of what these sellers are looking for, um, you've kind of you you you see this maybe consulting as being um uh almost uh uh an add-on. Well, not add-on, but it's something that's necessary for for the model to work. Is that fair to say, or or how would you describe that?

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, and look, I like to give people choices, right? If you have you know your information together, you can come to the site, you can sign up, it's free, list your business in probably 10-15 minutes. It's it's a step-by-step kind of form process, right? So 10 to 15 minutes, you can have your your business live up there. If you need something a bit more hands-on, obviously we can provide that as well. And like I said, I I'm happy to be patient because some of the people we're taunting now won't go to sell their business for for two years, and I understand that, but yeah, I think this is new for the Irish market. Like most things that are new, there's an education piece required, yeah. Is if you and I'll have to spend time doing it, not educating people is the wrong word, that sounds a bit patronizing, but kind of just explaining the process and making it more usual to do these kind of things, I think, is one of our key challenges, and that's why we're producing quite a lot of content and quite a lot of information around this, so that people can, you know, start brushing up with it themselves before they make that leap to sell.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah. I suppose there's a whole education part in a way, isn't there? And it's interesting when you know this gap, I suppose what I did a few years ago, because I was seeing it with my own clients, okay. So I'd I'd kind of a lot of what I did with my own clients would be around pricing and 80-20 analysis. All around a lot of what I did over the years is profitability. I'd look and see the whale in the background there, whales and sardines, right? Get them to identify their whale profitable clients, so you want to focus on them and filter out the sardines and tweak their pricing. So I used to focus on profitability. So I put together this smallish network group, but it was kind of hand-picked sectors and people. So I got um, I got an accountant in there, I got a tax specialist, um, got a solicitor who specializes in businesses selling, got a business broker, um, there was kind of six or seven of us. And the idea is that, you know, on different stages of getting those ducks in a row, that these people could come in at different stages, because it could take, you know, yourself, it could take a couple of years to get everything set up the way it needs to be. Um that worked quite well. Um, so like it is um uh it is it fair to say it probably is the norm that most people go to sell their business haven't really planned it or thought about it. So they realize that there's a gap in the valuation, and if they want to maximize the valuation, they probably need to spend maybe let's call it two years. They certainly need to send as a period of time for the processes and the people and the contracts and maybe boost the profitability a bit. I suppose is it fair to say that's the norm? Is that there's a gap?

SPEAKER_02 26:18

And there's a bit of a I think there's a I think there's a mix, right? I think you know, low six-figure businesses can be a good bit faster than that. Often they're kind of online businesses or they're they're more they tend to be more tech savvy, so you can pull accounts together quicker, for example, right? Yes, for for certain certainly your medium and large businesses, yes, there is that period of time. It kind of amazes me really in some ways that that accountants aren't more proactive on these, right? So you have a client you've been dealing with for 20 years, you know them inside out, you know their business, they're now 62. Are you not talking to them already about what they're doing when they're 65, 66? Right. Yeah. Because there's some really important tax issues, um, uh and some redemption issues if you're not planning out that two or three years, particularly as you come up to retirement, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Yes. Um, and that leads me nice on to the question because I was gonna ask you about the accountant anyway, and just what you touched on there. So maybe as this as this thing from asking you a question about your own accountant, let's keep it broader, okay? Um what do you think? Um uh you you probably touched on it there. So are there things that accountants should be doing with business owners? Or you know, are there advice, is there things they should be doing with business owners that isn't happening as much as it should that would help when they knock on Garrett's door? Or what could accountants be doing, do you think, to help business owners plan for the end game and maybe selling their business?

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah, I think like I mentioned, the proactive side of it is really important, right? Because the the the tidier and cleaner you can make a business, the more attractive it is, of course. Um, I think also helping um what's gonna be interesting with AI, I think, is if you think about developers who are writing code for software, already most developers aren't writing code anymore, they're actually managing the AI writing code. So they become the manager rather than the worker. I think you'll see that with accountants as well, is a lot of the fairly basic bookkeeping PL kind of stuff is gonna come more and more automated. Yeah. So hopefully, accountants are gonna have more headspace to be more involved with their customers, like I mentioned, getting them ready for exit, looking at options, etc. I think that's important. And I think what one of the things I see with Bismarck as well is that opportunity to create a bit of a network amongst, you know, I suppose brokers, accountants, um, you know, advisors, different consultants in that space. Because, like you mentioned, you really need to get a team together to do a lot of this, particularly if you're an artist, right? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think being more proactive is one thing I could definitely see. And also not being afraid of that AI or automation push, embracing it to a certain extent, it's gonna free you up to you know the average accountant has however many years experience, knows their space really well. You're gonna get more of a chance to show that instead of being involved in the paperwork over the next few years, I think.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, and maybe your own experience from the past business and the current business, whatever you want to talk into, just your own experience with accountants. Um what you know, was there something you felt your accountant could have been doing, your your accountants will say in your businesses. Is there extra services you think are things they could have been doing for you or offering to you that maybe they weren't?

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, I I think um so for uh entrepreneurs like myself, typically doing about 10 things at once. So keeping on top of filings or or even being given kind of advanced notice, I think is important because I just don't pay attention to those things. Yeah, yeah. So again, that can be automated too, right? Just have regular emails or notifications going out. Um I think the value add, like you mentioned earlier as well, is not just doing the basics, but providing extra value. And there's already tools out there you can plug QuickBooks into or Big Red Book or whatever that, like I said, can give you some perhaps more detailed advice on profit margins, customer mix, all that kind of stuff. I think that could be really useful for an entrepreneur and to give it to them in a really digestible way as well, not a big spreadsheet, right? Yeah, here's four or five things I think you should be doing in the business. Do you want to talk? Or here's four or five things that I could do right now that would improve X, Y, Z. Do you want me to go ahead and do that? That kind of approach would be brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah. Um, as you said, the better information, but also present to maybe in graph format or whatever. That's just easy for people to understand. Then here's what you can do, and here's what it can do. Um, yeah, certainly, hopefully that will uh that'll become more of the norm going forward. I mean, um, accountants will certainly be freed up in time. I mean, they're gonna have time freed up. There's gonna be pressure on their on their fee notes and bills the same way solicitors are facing at the moment. I suppose from my experience of dealing with them, there's the challenges do they have the will or the confidence and the knowledge to be um going having these conversations with clients? But I mean, technology certainly AI can be a huge help to them. AI can probably do a lot of the you know, the analysis and the suggestions and whatever, even if they're maybe not don't necessarily have the experience themselves.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Um AI can be thinking that as well, there's a tendency not just in accounting, but it's a demographic thing too, right? People who let's let's say 55 plus who you know can see the finish line to a certain extent, are kind of I suppose I speak to quite a few of them, and there's a bit of a barrier head in the sand, let me get to the finish line kind of thing. Whereas actually, if you embrace it a little bit, and there's plenty of people out there to help, if you embrace it, it could really help you on your exit as well. If you're gonna sell your firm down the line or sell your book, there's a lot of um there's a lot of advantages to you know being a bit more savvy on the AI side.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, pretty good. Um Gareth, I think that's most of the questions I was gonna plan to ask you about. Um is there anything else that we haven't touched on that you'd like to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Uh no, I I think like I mentioned, my motivation for starting this was just seeing a bit of a you know gap in the market. Like I mentioned, you know, million and a half people are gonna retire are in the UK over the next few years. You know, what is it, 99. 99.8% of businesses in Ireland are are SMEs, right? So there's a huge market there, there's big appetite from buyers out there, and I'm just trying to connect the dots. So, you know, interested in speaking to anybody and everybody who thinks they can help or is interested in the space. Um, I love that collaborative atmosphere. So if we can uh you know get a network going, that'd be super.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Absolutely, yeah. And you know, I keep hearing stats. Is it like half of all business owners have to just walk away from the business or cancel it or something? You may you may be more privy to some of those stats or whatever. When you see, you know, I've certainly seen that before. That and you could easily believe it because maybe they get sick, or maybe something happens, or maybe the business isn't worth what they thought it was, and they don't have the time to get the ducks in a row or whatever. So, would that how would that start a 50%? Um, how does that sound to you, or what's your own yeah, it it's it's probably not far off.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Um, you have some interesting ones where I think you know 65% of businesses are family owned, about 15% of them have a succession or an exit plan, right? It's a tiny amount 1550. Yeah, so so it's it's even smaller, I think. But there is hidden value in businesses. There's also um, you know, there's a huge appetite from buyers out there. It's for various different reasons. The average age of a business acquisition, sorry, business acquirer is about 34 now. So there's a real appetite, yeah, real 31 to 34. There's a real appetite of people out there to acquire businesses. There's a huge trend online of um what they call either income stacking or diversified income, where you need to have three or four things bringing in income to protect yourselves. And people are all about that in that age group.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

So it's really interesting. It is very interesting, yeah. That's certainly new to me. So Garrett, thanks very much for your time. It was um it was great chatting to you and very interesting uh just hearing about your experience about setting up the online business, which is brilliant, but also realizing that there's that that live element and actually meeting people face to face, which is kind of nice, uh, certainly in the early days, and I'm sure as it grows and whatever, uh it might move towards more and more people being able to do it on, you know, conduct the whole transaction online, which is the way it was set up. So, Garrett, thanks very much for your time. No problem. Absolute pleasure. Good luck, thank you. Thank you.