Bend Don't Break: Todd Dunkelberg, Director of the Deschutes County Libraries

In this episode of Bend Don’t Break, host Aaron Switzer sits down with Todd Dunkelberg, Director of the Deschutes Public Library and unexpected TikTok sensation. Todd shares his journey from graduating in library science at the University of Texas to leading one of Oregon’s most dynamic library systems. He reflects on the evolution of libraries from traditional book lending to makerspaces, 3D printing, and digital literacy and how these changes are shaping community life in Central Oregon.The conversation explores the ambitious new library projects, the role of meeting spaces in fostering connection, and why libraries remain vital in a digital age. Todd also gives a behind-the-scenes look at the viral video that made him a social media star. Tune in for an engaging discussion about innovation, accessibility, and the future of public libraries.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

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SPEAKER_00 0:22

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SPEAKER_01 0:45

I'm Aaron Sweitzer, publisher The Source and producer of this podcast. Today our guest is Todd Dunkelberg, social media star and TikTok celebrity. We'll get to that, but he is more prominently, and as most of you would know, the director of the Deschutes Public Library. He began his library career as a children's librarian after graduating from the University of Texas Library School in 1999. He moved to Centorgan to manage the Redmond Library and was promoted to library director in 2009. Small note, I have served on the library foundation. So I worked closely with Todd back in uh, I think it was probably 2009. It was right around when you first took over. So I'm I I will just say up front, I'm a huge fan. So this is going to be like a fan, fan interview. And for those who pay uh attention to the podcast, we have switched chairs today. So I'm using the other side of my brain when I talk to Todd. So if it helps you, we can switch. I'm intentionally pushing myself by sitting somewhere different. Uh Todd, there is a University of Texas Library School. There is. I learned I'm learning uh devoted in uh expressly to library. Yes, library and information science. Yeah. Yes. How um what year did you graduate? That's gonna date you too much.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yeah, I have to think back. Uh different century, uh 1993. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

And um how does one get from the University of Texas to Bend, Oregon?

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Uh well, I was working in uh California where I grew up, and my sister lived in Bend. Oh, wow. And at the time she was trying to recruit me to come up here.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

And a lot of people may not remember this, but that was 1998 was when the county said we're no longer funding the library.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

And so I came up and uh I stood in the bushes and peeked into the window of the downtown Bin Library because uh it was closed. Uh and I told her if they ever get money, I'll think about moving here. Uh, and they got a district measure passed, so we became a special district, and uh that opened a lot of hiring, and I was lucky enough to be able to come up here.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, I was one year, I we had just started publishing. I we had been maybe a year into publishing the paper, and uh I can remember not fully understanding what was happening because you know, for uh, you know, if if you're in any other place, a lot of times the funding of the library is tied into county or city budgets and they don't sit independently. And um that's a fascinating thing about our particular library, and probably one of the reasons it's so strong and it does so well is it's independently funded. You're a little bit outside of any of the city or county shenanigans.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah, that really showed up and hit home when I became director, is right in the middle of the Great Recession.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

And um while that impacted our budget as well, I remember saying it's it's bad, but it's stably bad.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Uh we're not in a situation where somebody is saying we need to fund uh the sheriff's department or or fire services. Yeah. Um all we can plan and uh adjust. So that it's been really nice. Yeah. It's it's you don't think about I've worked in libraries where you never knew if you had funding from one year to the next. Right. And it makes uh future planning impossible.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah. Well, and it's an interesting thing for um our community because again, uh one of the other things like it is is parks and rec here, not part of so all of our priorities, libraries, parks, they're they're individually funded and um therefore not an in threat the way you don't have to beat up the chief of police to keep funding the the book drops, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yeah I I went to when we were going out for our bond campaign, the fire department was going out for a levy. Yeah. And I can tell you they have a much better message, they have much better looking uh workers than me, and and uh I would have put my funding there. So we're happy to have our own district.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, that's great. Uh you have been since 2009, libraries have have changed a lot. You guys have been very dynamic. Let's I mean, you've just recently opened the Redmond Library to great fanfare and and TikTok acclaim. Um how has that been?

SPEAKER_02 5:35

It's been just wonderful. It was um kind of controversial when we started it. Um and people didn't understand why we'd be building a big library in the middle of downtown. And from the day we opened, it was very clear that this was a needed resource in Redmond. It's such a community hub. It's it's yeah, um one one of my favorite things, uh, because we always talk about building community, but just to stand there and I was watching two people chatting like they've known each other for years, and then they stopped and said, uh, oh, by the way, I live two blocks from here and introduce themselves. Like this is where our community meets.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Yeah. I remember that from serving on the foundation and really starting. It it's hard when you're not in the library ecosystem to realize that there is a library in each of the communities, and they do communicate with each other, and it's a it's a little network. And we would go to different meetings in these different libraries, and and all the like, you know, stand-up people in the community would come. I remember Jim Anderson uh was a big part of the sisters library, and I got warm and fuzzies, you know, every time you would go around. And um people know, I think that libraries are important that, but they I I think it really hits home when you're involved with a library and see that connection. Uh and the the Redmond Library, I mean, for source readers and Redmond, they know that is I think our largest pickup. It it does so so many, of course, they're readers, but also there's just so many people going in and out of uh the library. And and I think in this digital age, people forget that, but it's a hub. And uh I'm glad and and it looks gorgeous. I mean, it's just a gorgeous building. It's part of um that whole Redmond doing the right thing thing. So yeah, well, congratulations. I was um I've been Redmond has a way of just doing cutting through a lot of the chatter and just doing the right thing. You go down to that center area where City Hall has been renovated and the park has been renovated and the libraries are now. It's a I mean, it's not unlike what what Bend has in that central core, but they seem to do it even in the face of opposition.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Yeah, it's definitely it was a pleasure developing that building in Redmond. There were a lot of support from the city. Um, a lot of at one point uh I got all prepared to come to them and give them all the arguments of why we needed to be there. Yeah. And they started the meeting by giving me all the arguments of why we needed to be there. And that was just uh such a revelation for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah, that's great. The um the but since, you know, I I think 2009, I'll keep going back to that starting point. Um, I mean, the role of the library has changed. And certainly, I mean, I live and breathe digital transformation. Um, library is no different. Um maybe just speak to some of the things that since you become, you know, director that the changes that have happened. Because I think in some people's mind, they're they're gonna go in and they're gonna pull out their library card and get their book, and that's the extent of it. And and that's not really I mean, that's a big part of it, but it certainly has changed.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, it's uh just uh as you started saying when I graduated, um, a lot has changed there. And really we were uh, you know, we used to be kind of the gatekeepers to information. Yeah. And I always think of it as kind of like uh the Wizard of Oz. You had to approach us at the desk and ask for information we may impart it to you.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And as long as you didn't have a lot of fines, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Um yeah, exactly. And uh that's a part of that gatekeeper. And uh that really is obviously shifted. It it I will say it was very fun uh doing that, where it you know, we'd get calls from people would be like, hey, I'm at a bar and we're we're debating who won the World Series in 1963 and how many games. And uh you can imagine that never happens now. Somebody just picks up their phone and figures it out.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

But then the librarian would help them.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Yes. Yeah. Um, and so that really shifted a lot of our role.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Um, and it and I think in a really good way. Uh I don't think it was a healthy dynamic, even what you're talking about with fines, right? Is there were many barriers to be able to get access.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Um, we have we have dropped fines, um, really realizing that um there are plenty of studies that showed the books come back anyway. Yeah. Uh, and really what we were ended up doing was really pushing away people that maybe couldn't afford it to be able to get a 10 cent fine was enough that you know, maybe the parents would say you can no longer use libraries. Right. And so that's that's just a a good example of us being really conscious about making sure that um we're working alongside people to welcome them into the library into their library and not and not being um you know the guardian of everything that happens in it.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah, I think you were probably pushing away a lot of the people who don't clean under their bed. And then you would they would look and there would be three library books under there and uh that your mom would pull out and go, You're paying for this. And you'd have to troop down there with your books, tail between your legs. Oh, yeah. And so, um, but you guys also do a lot now with like you have a uh do you have 3D printer?

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Um, I mean there's a lot of crazy kind of stuff like that going on.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Um that's kind of an interesting one. Uh before we did this Bond project, we went out and we talked to about 7,000 people across the community. And we we didn't just hold meetings in the library, but we would go stand in front of Walmart and ask people what they were trying to get people that didn't traditionally use library and uh asked what they wanted and a creative makerspace type uh space is something that came up like having 3D printers, sure, um having co-working spaces, um, kind of think of for remote workers or a place where you can plop down and start working, maybe have a little meeting room where you could do a Zoom call. And uh and then also a lot of interest in meeting space, meeting rooms and kids' discovery areas. And the cool thing is we've opened these buildings is uh, for example, that makerspace and the 3D printers. I wasn't sure how popular that would be. Yeah. And it's uh it's gone through the roof. Where we've had to shift and say, wow, we've got to we've got to increase staffing in this area because so many people want this service.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Uh and it was kind of a real validation that uh we did a good job of listening.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yeah. The um, I mean, as it's uh as it's evolved, when you were doing the public process for the Bend library, I remember, I don't uh it was exhaustive. I mean, how maybe talk about that process? Because I'm sure that's where you got a lot of the information. I remember luncheons and I was like, oh my gosh, they're doing another community gathering around I I don't they have the concept yet? And it was like, not quite, a little more information. And uh maybe speak to that process because you must have, I think you probably have a better comprehensive sense of what the community wants and even the city itself at that at that point.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, I think a big piece uh if you look at it historically, like maybe every 25 to 40 years, yeah, we go out and we ask for funding.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Um, where you may see other organizations where every five years they're coming out. Yeah. And so a lot of those discussions was really wanting to make sure we got it perfectly right because we knew this might be our only chance for the next 50 years to do something.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Right. Well, and the um end result of a lot of that is the library new library that's gonna be opening up on 27th Street. Where are you in that in that process? I know the roundabout has not been opened. I was driving by that uh the other day. It looks like it's getting closer.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

The roundabout's open. Yeah. Um the uh construction is due to end at the end of December. Okay, and then we will be spending the next four and a half months stacking books, bringing bringing books in, yeah, bringing over uh about a hundred staff people and a lot of logistics to get that going.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

What what can people like what what's different about this library from um the other libraries they might have been in? Because it's certainly bigger.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Um probably like first the first thing you'll see when you come in are some large meeting spaces. We have a community room or we can hold about 275 people, um, or and it has a divider, so you could have two groups of people meeting at the same time. The until we built the Redmond Library, our largest meeting space was the Brooks room in downtown Bend that only holds 80 people.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

And and actually it originally only held 40. We expanded it. Um, but you can imagine we built that building when there were 30,000 people in Bend.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Uh now there's over 100,000. Um, so this is really helping us size to our community.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Um, so you'll see that piece. A really exciting piece is they'll have uh coffee. We're working with Thump Coffee. Oh, wow. To have that service in the lobby that when we went out and talked to 7,000 people.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Megan and Megan and I are huge fans. Yeah. We drink too much Thump Coffee, probably.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

That uh that was one where we didn't ask for that. People they could write in things and the number of people that said coffee. Um so we're definitely uh happy to bring that. Yeah, that's great. Um, and then uh really some of the things that kind of on a larger scale from what we've done in Redmond, where we have uh maker and creative spaces. Um it'll be three floors on the top floor, the third floor will be uh for adults. We have a a space for that, dedicated for that, also more meeting space and study rooms there. And then on the second floor for the kids and teens, we also have a space for that. Um and also again, meeting spaces and study rooms as well, which are really, really needed in this community. There's not a lot of places to really find places to meet and all and they're free.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Right. I I think that you touched on it right there at the end. I mean, a lot of these facilities and things that you're setting up, they are free. There's no obligation to come in and buy a croissant and a coffee, or you know, I mean, it's a pretty low threshold for a lot of these coffee shops, but then again, it's often awkward to sit and work for long periods of time next to the screeching of the cappuccino machine. So when um I mean, there has been conversation about why the library. I mean, what do you say to people who are like, is that the role of a library to provide these kind of meeting spaces? And um, I mean, I know there's a lot of enthusiasm for the people who live over in that area now for what's what's obviously going to be a big asset. But what do you say to folks who are like, a library really should just be more like what the East Side Library was, a smaller space without any place together?

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Um even there we had had a meeting space and all and a lot of and it really built a sense of community having that space. Um and when we go to like the maker space or the co-working spaces, is also a realization that library is traditionally about literacy. And uh literacy has changed over time. So uh information literacy, technol technological literacy is really important. Right. Um a good example is uh VR goggles, where I always thought that seems like something that uh we don't really need to have a game here, and then was reading about the um a medical library that was using that so that uh their medical students could practice surgery.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

And realizing that's literacy.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

And so uh that's that's a real aspect. Being able to use a 3D printer is going to be important for somebody's job.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Well, it's also um low barrier. I mean, for people who I mean, I can't afford VR goggles. I'd love to test them out. I also can't afford, nor do I want a 3D printer, but I wouldn't mind checking that out as well. I mean, and there's certainly folks who don't have the resources who that is the role of the library, correct?

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Mm-hmm. Yes, yeah. And it really uh a big and that's kind of you started earlier saying about changes in libraries. Uh probably 30, 40 years ago, the amount of events and programs that libraries would have were pretty minimal. And and that shifted a lot at the beginning of the century.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

And uh and we've really embraced that. So that's a piece that having those extra meeting spaces allows us to have those uh places where people can gather, learn, um, whether whether it's talking about the love of reading or learning how to play a ukulele.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Right. Now that um I mean I don't want to push you too far down the road, but the East Bend Library is pretty much in your rear view mirror for the most part. I mean, while for the rest of the community, it's like hey wow, it's uh it's opening up for you. The planning and the execution of that thing happened years ago. What's the what's on the what's the next piece? What's on the horizon? What are you what are you planning for?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Uh really our whole goal all along has been to get set up um with uh to really have a centralized library where we can actually move materials around.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Oh yeah, that was the other part I remember about it, is is you have a big sorting and and the the books come there and then they issue forth from that library as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Yeah, because we uh we circulate close to two million items a year, and that's a lot of movement around. Um but one piece, like it doesn't scale for us to do small libraries all around the community. We don't have the funding to staff that um but in the future we're looking at the ability to broaden out more where we can do things like having a kiosk where think of a vending machine on steroids where you can come and check out a book or request a book and come come get it out of that machine. And um, that's kind of one of the next steps on our horizon. Uh where we plan on getting used to this new building and seeing how it works and getting the downtown Ben Library done, and then we're looking forward to how we can serve more in the future.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah. For the um locations like Sun River and Sisters, are there things on the horizon that some of the listeners who live there might think about?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, well, all of those uh Sun River, Le Pine, Sisters, all those buildings were just uh completely remodeled.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Um, which really again set us up for the future. So those buildings are uh have all new systems. Um we've really uh made sure that we've added things similar to some of the larger spaces where we've added extra meeting spaces and study rooms.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

And uh so yeah, so we're in really good shape in those areas. And those people in those communities are probably saying. Please don't do anything because you shut us down for a year while you did that. Let us enjoy what we have.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Right. So just prior to us coming and sitting down and do podcasts, I was informed that the library is also really prominent on social media. I think Megan, who does the social media for the event company and our co-producer here said you guys are quote killing it on social. And Sarah Daly here at Remax was saying you're a TikTok star. What is that all about?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Uh our staff pulled together a video for the new Redmond Library where I am taking people on a tour of the library, but using only Gen Z uh speech. So I could tell you more about it, but I have no idea what I actually said. None of it means anything to me, but it was uh it was kind of fun. Halfway through filming it, I thought, well, they wanted me as a director to do this. And then I realized, oh, you need an old guy.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

You need someone who definitely looks like they're out of touch.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Yes. So I got to do that. And then uh the goal was to highlight it for people in Redmond to be able to use it. I we didn't expect uh we've had over six million views.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

I mean, this is your this video's gone international.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yes, it's uh that's just the right level of fame for me. Once every six months somebody looks at me funny and says, You look familiar.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, well, I I mean Sarah did say you didn't tell me you had a TikTok star coming in for the podcast today.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yes. So that's great. So we have a very creative staff doing that. And a real goal for us is uh so many people are moving into Deschutes County. Yeah. Uh just to get in front of them that we're different. Yeah. Um, a real challenge for libraries is if you keep driving by the building, whatever was in a library the last time you went there is what you think is in that building.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

And so if it's been 30 years or you move from a community where they had poor library services, um, you probably aren't thinking much about it. So trying to get that in people's minds.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, I think when I first moved here, the library was the little office building now. And people are like, what is that building? I was like, that was the library. That was it, you'd go in and had all the weird floors that went up and down and in some back corners. And I mean, to to look at where I mean, I don't I don't consider that to be a really long time ago, but uh you know, to see where it's come from there to here and to have maintained that sense of community, I think, through all of it is pretty remarkable. Um we are actually out of time for the podcast. What is there anything? I know there's way more that we could have touched on, but anything in particular that you want listeners or uh readers to know.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Just uh know that we've got some exciting changes happening. Please bear with us because as we uh kind of shut down services and East Bend and then downtown Bend and start moving things over, it's going to be some disruption.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

We're trying to limit the amount of time uh where you won't have access to buildings, but uh it's it'll all be worth it. It'll be a pretty exciting change once we're done.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I I'm looking forward to all of the comments on Nextdoor and other social media because I know they'll there anytime these kind of government services or services that you paid your tax dollars for, there's a lot of conversation that occurs. And uh I'm sure your staff, your social media staff will be uh entertained over the over the coming months. So, but it looks great and uh it's it certainly transformed that area. And if I mean I know I don't live over in that area, so coming over there and and driving by was like, wow, it is transformational for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Well, Todd, thank you for for coming in and and being part of our thing. I'm sure uh if you haven't checked out the library's TikTok page, uh now's your time. Now's your time to go. Uh, this has been the Ben Don't Break Podcast. If you like what you've heard, go to Bensource.com, become a member, and help us create maybe some of our own viral TikTok videos, and uh, maybe we'll collab with the public library after this. Thank you for uh listening and watching. You've been listening to the Ben Don't Break podcast, powered by the Source Weekly. To read, hear, and see more of what we do, go to Bensource.com.