Kirk Schueler, President and CEO of Brooks Resources Corporation

In this episode of Bend Don’t Break, Aaron Switzer sits down with Kirk Schueler, President and CEO of Brooks Resources Corporation, to explore the evolution of Bend through the lens of one of its most influential developers. Kirk shares his journey from a career in accounting and auditing to helping shape some of Central Oregon’s most recognizable communities, including Northwest Crossing. Along the way, he reflects on the collaborative efforts that defined Bend’s growth, from the West Side Traffic Consortium to early decisions that introduced roundabouts and walkable neighborhood design.

Together, Aaron and Kirk dive into the realities of growth in a changing city—how land use policy, housing demand, and community values intersect, and what’s at stake as Bend continues to expand. They also discuss the shift away from large-scale master planned developments toward more urban, mixed-use projects, and the importance of maintaining “complete neighborhoods” that balance housing with services and livability. Tune in for a grounded conversation about leadership, long-term thinking, and what it means to build a community that lasts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Ben Don't Break Podcast. We are powered by the Stores, Ben's locally owned media company and weekly newspaper. This podcast is our eddy in the rushing waters of local journalism. We are glad that you're taking some of your time to listen to us and chat with the people who shape our local community. Support us through our member program at BenStorce.com.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Remax Key Properties, a family-owned, full-service real estate brokerage specializing in residential, luxury, commercial, new construction, and ranch and land properties. Their new state-of-the-art facility at 42 Greenwood Avenue is a modern collaborative space and the new home of the Bin Don't Break Podcast Recording Studio.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

I'm Aaron Sweitzer, publisher of the source and producer of co-producer of this podcast with Megan Burton. Thank you for joining us today. We have Kirk Schuler. He is president and CEO of Brooks Resources Corporation, a Central Oregon real estate development and management company, a role he has held since 2000. Graduate of the University of Nevada Reno in Forestry and the University of Oregon Accounting, Shuler began his career with KPMG, where he specialized in auditing high-tech and wood products companies before joining Brooks Resources in 1993. He later served as Chief Administration Officer and Executive Vice President of St. Charles Health System and Chief Financial Officer of Mosaic Medical before returning to Brooks Resources in 2016. Throughout his career, he has been deeply involved in community leadership, serving on numerous boards and committees, including Oregon State University, Mount Bachelor Sports Education Foundation, the Benn Foundation, and the Roundhouse Foundation Investment Committee. Kurt?

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I had forgot about the uh mosaic uh CFO, but it was a short one. I was yeah, I was filling in.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

This was quite a long, I will say a long biography. So we uh we turned it down.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

If you would have come up with anything else, that would have been news, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

So so uh you're born in Nevada.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Nevada.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Nevada, yeah, yeah. Sorry, my east coast showing it.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Right. Uh Las Vegas. Yeah, Las Vegas in the 60s. Born 1960 in Las Vegas, born and raised, graduated from high school. Yeah, what was that like? I mean, my dad worked for the the test site, the Nevada, the Department of Energy. So the casino world really wasn't much of our world. Not all of my neighbors were associated with casino in one way or another. Sure. Not all of them in the casino floor, you know. So it was different, you know. It was back then, it was cheap food, you know. It's with my dad would take us down there and get buffets and yeah, things. So it's changed a lot. I I mean, I don't have any relatives there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

And it's got to be crazy to go back there now.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah, it's a lot different.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Um, it was the fastest growing city for yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

When I was a kid, fastest growing city for a long time, also highest rate of crime per capita. But most of it was like property crime and stealing. It's that people lose money at the casinos and feel like they can make around by stealing cars or something. I don't know. Yeah, but um, no, it was good though. I mean, Vegas was uh to grown immensely. Uh when I was in high school, I had a job with Ready Ice, which was a Southland corporation who owned all the 7-Elevens. And we delivered ice to all the 7-Elevens and when I wasn't working in the back bagging it. Yeah, and so I got to know the city and knew all of Las Vegas. You know, as a high schooler, you've never really ventured too far, but because of my summer job, I that seems like a good job for Vegas. It was because the ice, you were back there and it was like, you know, 48 degrees. And you in fact, they told you like when your shift was over, and because we they just ran day, you walked out at whatever, four or five o'clock. I said, be careful because you can walk out into the 105, 110. Oh, yeah. And it had people, you know, yeah, pass out. Pass out. And I, you know, we we were 18, so I weren't gonna pass out, but they were worried about us.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So but you started with a vision from from being in the desert of Nevada to go into forestry.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yeah, well, I went to Reno, Nevada Reno, um, and um, you know, when you're that age, you don't always make great decisions. Not that forestry was a bad decision, but my career choice was guided by the avoidance of having to take foreign language and calculus, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Which was like the stupidest way you could ever that was my plat my path too, but I just kind of stayed on it.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I didn't go into the calculus. I started in geology and then I went into business and they told me I could take calculus, and then I don't know Spanish and Literally going through the course catalog. I'm looking for the degree that doesn't require those. Right. And it was in the Department of the College of Agriculture, in the Department of Renewable Natural Resources. Forestry was and so I was in ag. I went to the my some first semester of my sophomore year. I'm sitting in a class called Plant Soil and Water, and I have this moment. I was 19, I had this moment of this boy from Las Vegas has fallen a long way. You know, I was like, what am I doing? I'm in farmer class. Right, right, right. And uh, but one of the classes you had to take was the intro to renewable natural resources. And so they showed you forestry and range management and wildlife and uh watershed management, and I'm like, I'm gonna be a forester.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

And uh so, but it was good. I mean, I love my forestry background. I I never really practiced silviculture, which is the science of forestry. Right. I met my wife there, who did. She worked for the she has a forestry degree and a hydrology, but um, yeah, she was in the with the forest service doing real forestry. Yeah, and I worked for the forest service temporarily, um, mostly surveying uh roads and trails in Idaho.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah, that was also in your bio. Like, and then you're off you get your degree and you're off to Idaho. Was did you was your wife part of that?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah, she traveled. Okay, and so I she got me a job, and uh, I was on a crew that did preliminary survey lines, and that was one of the best jobs I ever had, walking through the mountains of Idaho and setting trails and roads, full plugging roads. Then she got transferred to Price, Utah. I went to work for a survey firm down there, engineering firm, which is a funny story because where I ended up, of course, was here at Brooks Resources um as an accountant, right? I'll I'll get back to that. When um I'm out in the field, my boss, Mike Holler, would take me out, and our engineers would be out there, we'd be walking through street construction, you know. Yeah. And the the engineer would say, Well, I think, I think this is gonna be a cut of a foot and a half. I'd go over to the stake and read it because I was a surveyor for two years. Right. And the engineer's like, wait, that count. Right. How do you read a stake? Well, we all do things, yeah. We all learn and accumulate.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah. So you weren't married to your wife at the time you won salmon. You did followed her, or you were married?

SPEAKER_02 6:53

We were married that's that September. Okay. We graduated in 82 from Nevada Reno, got married in September of 82.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

And then she goes to Price. You stay in Salmon.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

So you weren't uh we you followed? She went to Price in the middle of that summer. Oh, okay. So I was left, I was left in Idaho, um hoping that you know she would tell me where she moved to. And then, but we then I moved down there because her job was permanent. She had a permanent position with the Forest Service. Okay. I was still on the seasonal until I got the engineering gig for two years. Which was a great experience too.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah, and how do you so then at what point do you are you like, yeah, maybe I should, maybe I'm a math brain. Maybe I should Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

So that's a great story. You know, I I so we moved, so then she got transferred to Eugene.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Um with the Forest Service. Convenient. We we thought I uh Utah's a one of the most beautiful states to be in and travel in. It's an amazing place. Um, but you know, for two people from Nevada, after a little while, you kind of want to go back to the country you're from. Um, and so we said, well, we're gonna be close to that. Yeah, and we moved to Eugene. She got a job. We moved to Eugene. Um, again, not that against Utah and the people there, but it's just different, you know. Yeah, sure. Uh, but um, so yeah, then I was doing a little soul searching, like, what am I really interested in? Yeah. Well, I found myself reading like Money Magazine, no, non-logging magazine or anything like that. I was reading Money Magazine and uh Forbes or something, you know, and I go, I kind of like business. But I I went up to OSU and met with people from the forestry school there. I thought about forest engineering because I've been doing all that surveying. Sure. And it was right in the middle of spotted out. Oh, okay. And so this which they literally were like, Well, uh, you'll get a degree, I don't know what you'll do because there's no they're closing the entire forest.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

No one, no one will go in again. I always appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

The guy was pretty straight with me, you know. Right. Uh, I thought about computer science at back at U of O. Yeah. And uh um, of course, that would have been in 1984, is when we moved there. And I thought now I look back and go, God, I could have owned my own island, probably. I don't know why I would have gone into computer science in 84. Right. That's okay, though. Um, and so then I went to the College of Business and I interviewed with a few folks, and um so we had been married now about two years, a little over, and um I was just I was looking for a career, you know. Yeah, so I met with a couple different departments and I met with the accounting department, and they I said, Well, what you know, what are the prospects of a job? And they go, What are you talking about? They're they're gonna come on campus and recruit you.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

And I was like, sign me up.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

This is the right field. Right, yeah. So I became an account, I did yeah, three terms, four terms, and I got my second baccalaureate in accounting, yeah, recruited into KPMG. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

And what is K what is KPMG?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

KPMG uh used to be called Pete Marwick. It was a large, one of the big eight accounting firms in the world. Okay. Like when I worked there, uh we started in San Jose, moved to Portland after a year and a half because we were going broke in San Jose because we had had our first daughter. Oh, and um, my wife wasn't working and we were paying half of our salary and in rent. And um so so transferred to Portland and um I forgot your question.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Well, KPMG, I just don't know the large yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

When I moved to when I went to uh KPMG, there were probably 50,000 employees worldwide. Okay, so it's a huge accounting audit and tax consulting um and offices in all the major cities.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

How'd how how'd you like it? Did you feel like you were home when you got in that environment?

SPEAKER_02 10:30

You know what's funny? That's a great question because I like I'm pretty open-minded. I liked everything I was doing, yeah, but I was good at auditing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

You know, I don't know how good a lot of I don't sit with a lot of people who tell me they're really good with auditing.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

But you know what? I I give a lot of credit to my education at U of O. They taught us right about the principles of accounting and not just, you know, which column does this number go in? And so it really helped because auditing is um a very unique profession in that you go from client to client, which I have that's the part I loved. Yeah. I would a client, you know, I'd spend two, three, four weeks at a client doing their audit, finishing their financial statements, and then go on to the next one. So experience from a business standpoint was invaluable because I got to see all kinds of businesses, good ones, bad ones in between.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

How do you go? What what was the thinking behind you're at KPMG, you're at a big company. I imagine the opportunities for advancement are pretty huge.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

You strive and become a partner.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

You decide you're gonna go to Bend, go work for Roach.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

No, not necessarily to bend. I got to a point as you go up the ladder, it's a very much a pyramid, yes, for it used to be. I think they tried to change that because uh they lose a lot of talent. Um, but the pyramid is they re Portland, for example. When I was there, they we hire uh 18 new first-year people into the audit department, train them. Um, and uh then after the first year, some gotta go. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah because you gotta move up to the next level, and it's a pyramid. So I didn't understand the pyramid was getting shaved in the bottom of each rung moves up, it gets skinnier, right? And so that's what they do until you get to a certain point that you're standing around, they go, Well, you're a partner now because you've been here long enough. But um as I became a manager at five years, and um you start selling audit services and consulting services. And and so I was like, Oh, that's I'm not here for that. I liked auditing, I liked my clients, and so I started looking around. Yeah, there was uh Brooks Resources was a client of the KPMG's office, not my client, it was a different person, but I knew her, this the manager there, and um she knew I was looking around and she goes, Hey, this client of mine is looking for a controller. Oh are they good clients? Yeah, they're great people, great people. Um uh, where is it? And Ben, I go, I've been there months, you know. When I was in school, Eugene came over. Yeah, I was like, Oh, I'll go look. And so I interviewed, and uh uh oddly enough, I didn't get the job the first time. Uh I they hired a guy who had real estate experience, and yeah, uh I told Mr. Holleran at the time, I said, uh, but you know, I go to client after client. I I walk out of those buildings knowing as much about their business as they do, as far as at least the accounting. I can I'll be able to do the accounting no-brainer. It's not like you have to know. And he's like, Well, yeah, I could didn't quite get over that. Yeah. I don't know, 10, 11 months later, and they call Connie Warrell. And if you know, I remember Connie. Connie was doing the recruiting and she called me, goes, Hey, um, that guy they hired's leading when they were wondering if you might want to come, you know, interview. And I go, uh, I don't want to interview, but if you want to hire me, I'll do it. And they're like, Yeah, well, that's what they mean. Yeah. So that's that's so that's how I got. And so I was I was hold that over Michael.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, he didn't like me. Didn't like me. He liked me at first. But it's that's a 1993. I mean, just to set the stage for like what you were stepping into. I mean, I I mean, I got here in 90, and you know, I mean, it it wasn't a boom town at the time, and it was had just come out of a pretty bad financial area, and I mean things were perking up a bit, and I know um, I mean, we can look at the history and and understand that Brooks played such an enormous role, but for you coming in in '93, what does that look like as you're the controller?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

We had just we had just I got here in like the first of December of 93. Aubrey Glenn golf community had just the golf course had just opened that summer. Um, Aubrey Butte was in like phase eight or nine, there's like 38 phases or something up there. And so, you know, we kind of were just sticking to our knitting, you know, just developing and and selling lots and managing the community. And um, and so for me, uh that I didn't know any better really, because I got here in '93. All I know is I missed the winter of '92, '93, which apparently was the worst snow since I've lived here, right? Yeah, everybody in the outside. Oh, you last year it was like we had the pile of the snow down Wall Street. Yeah. I remember that. I remember that. Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah, I could we can cut his snow removal again.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah, that was like the big thing. I couldn't find enough places to put it. Yeah. So that's all I know I missed. Um, but yeah, it was uh it was just you know, I was the accountant, right? Right, I'm at the desk. I'm yeah, I'm cranking out the financial statements, and we had a great staff that was there, and uh they told me basically don't touch anything, don't break it.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

We're doing okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

We've been going on fine, just fine without you, right? And so um, so yeah, it was it was all pretty steady. And for me, it was just a learning curve, right? I was just starting to learn that business and and thank goodness. I mean, I work for someone who is just uh I don't even he's not really a boss, he's just just a great mentor, yeah. You know, in my caller, and then um in that he could be like, Oh, you're the accountant, come with me, let's go out and look at this, you know. Like I said, the story of this come out and I'm like, I'm the accountant. Why would I go? Well, let's go. He's smart, you know. He wanted me to know what I was accounting for, right? Sure. And understand the business and the things that were going on.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

So and probably had an eye for talent. I mean, could you see like maybe this does you know grow into more than right?

SPEAKER_02 16:34

I came there as the controller in December of '93. I mean, I was become I became the CFO a couple of like two or three years later, and then the chief operating officer, where I oversaw Mountbatcher Village Resort and Aubrey Glenn Golf Club. Okay. And we had started botanical developments, the landscape company. Okay. And so those three operational things, which was fine. I was just managing those general managers and doing the accounting. Um and then I became president in uh 2000. Yeah. So um, and yeah, I just progressed along and I know it's how things are. Your head's down and you're working, and you know, next thing you know, you're seven, eight years into it.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I mean, you guys are famous now for Northwest Crossing and the work that went into West Side, the West Side Consortium at the time, which was you remember, which was an amazing, you know, come together of. I was just talking the other night with somebody about how things have changed in the fact that you you could do a West Side Consortium, then you could get a group of folks, you could go to the city, you could propose these kind of things.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

And there was well, we were called to the city. Yeah, however, that however asked to come to the city. So Ronald Arzini, you remember? Yeah, Ronnie said, Oh, yeah. I remember his words. We were all sitting in the table in that back room at city council there. Oh, the gig is up, guys. And we're like, what's he talking about? Transportation is gonna slow us all down if you if we you guys can't get together and do something. Yeah, and so we did.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah, yeah. What is that? I I I I am curious, like how he he calls you in, but it's such an en it was such an enormous uh piece of property. I don't even now when I try to explain it to people, they don't understand what that cr that whole crescent was. But maybe give the 101 version of that.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Well, that time, I couldn't tell you the year, it must have been late 90s, yeah. I think um, because we started our we started Northwest Crossing in 2000. So we we we had our approvals basically through the West Side Traffic Consortium. But they called in everybody, they called in us because of Mountbatcher Village Resort. They called in the Bulletin because they had just moved. Oh, yeah, they hadn't done. So I didn't have much to do with it, but broken all of Broken Top was there, Dyke Dame and those guys were were at the table. They uh got us in because of West Bend Property Company, which did Northwest Crossing. Right. COCC. Well, that's West Bend Property Company. Yeah, and then they pulled in uh COCC, um Cascade Highlands, yeah, we were represented by you know the broken top folks anyway. Yeah, so anyway, we're all in Dave Swisher, who had that little Anderson ranch piece. He's like looking around the room going, why am I here? I own this little piece of land, but um, yeah, we sat there and with civil engineers, um, an attorney or two, and at first had a big traffic study done, identifying all the intersections that were gonna fail based on all of our assumptions of development. Right. And um then we basically started divvying up intersections to each other. Well, you take this one, it seems like this, you know. So Northwest Crossing had the Chevron Park Road roundabout on now Washington Drive and the Skyliner roundabout. We all contributed money for the Southern Crossing. Right. Okay. We pitched in Punch of Maya and I don't know, a million dollars between all of us. Yeah. Um people did the 14th and uh um Galveston, uh Newport and 14th, 9th and um Newport. Those were all part of the West Side Traffic Consortium. Right. Um the roundabout at we'd already built, see, the roundabout at at Century and uh Colorado. Okay. That was the first one. Yeah, we built that one, and so there's a whole nother story. Like the father of the roundabout was Mike Hollering, because he sure he proclaimed that there'd never be a signal light on the west side of the river, right? Then we were all like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, I remember when they went all in and everybody was so crazy about, oh, this is gonna be a disaster, the snow, the yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

We yeah, uh Dave Marsh was the president of Mount Bachelor and had just retired. And we were built, we built that roundabout, and I got this call. I think he wanted Mike, but he got me, and he sort of read me the riot act that all the people coming to Mount Batch, yeah, gonna get confused and lost. And I'm like, I don't know about that. Uh seems like they should be able to figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Remember all of the anti, they were like, We're gonna become France. We don't want to be France.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

This is where the roundabouts go. So, this is again for the Century Colorado roundabout. Right. Uh and we had to do it because we were building that Century Washington Center where OSU is now and Cascade Lakes used to be and all that. Um and the city wanted a signal light. And Mike's like, well, camp, like, why don't we build a roundabout instead? It was cheaper back then to build a roundabout.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Now it's actually more expensive. Oh, it didn't know or I don't know, I haven't built a signal in a long time, but but yeah, we um we built the first roundabout on a on a state highway too. So it was there was a lot going on. Yeah, yeah. It was a pretty crazy time. Um we opened it, that one. We all went out there, our engineers, ODOT people were there. There's probably 12 of us standing in front of the hotel right there. Yeah, and um cars are entering. And moving nicely. And then this little uh, you know, a mini pickup with two high school boys enter it, and it's just a squeal the whole way, not once. They do two laps, and the guy in the passenger seat's waving at all of us, and we're all our jaws are just like, oh my god, what have we created? Right. We're is this what is right? You know, and then there were stories of like people trying to turn left into the roundabout. Yeah, but in the end, uh I think now you couldn't take them away.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, and and I mean being able to get the um, I'm drawing a blank on the name of the arts group that was putting it on the bar in public places, having that additional incentive where um, you know, they started putting the art in there, and then it made it like, well, what what our roundabout needs art, you know? How come they have art? We don't have any exact you know, balancing the east side, what's oh, this is a west side.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

The great thing is that the roundabouts did come to the east side, yeah. And and you know, and art ended up in those two. Yeah, and so it was it became very egalitarian.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

It was like, what what kind of art are you gonna get in your roundabout?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

It was awesome. I love the the the I don't know if it's the most recent, but the one down by Caldera High School with the wolves with the wolves, yeah. It's like you know, and there's the wolves and then the bear at ninth and and uh Franklin, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Um yeah, when I and actually when I because we're doing Alpinglow nights over there with a little um concert in that park. And I had not gone right out of the park yet in in a while. And so I go down and I was like, oh, not only do they have roundabouts here, they have art. They're they're legit, they're stamped.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah. So someone's waiting for us to waiting for art and public places to put in a storm. Uh yeah. That's right. They light. I don't know how they're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, but well, Kurt, when you were so as this is all happening, how are you? I mean, you're you're ramping up, and I know you're so at a certain point though, you you went and tried your hand in medical.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Well, so let's be clear, and things were yeah. I never touched a scalpel or anything. Um, I it was a recession, yeah, you know, and as well as we could have been positioned because we still we had Northwest Crossing going, and Northwest Crossing was the only real estate in town during the recession. You're still doing 30, 40 homes a a year there, and um so but we were there was a moment I I was in I was on vacation somewhere and I I called in to be part of this discussion that somebody didn't like a decision by the architecture review committee and wanted to appeal it. So that brings Mike and me into this. Um and we're debating a color of a house, and I came back and I go, Mike, I there's no work. I mean, what are we what am I doing? You you're paying you and you're paying me, and we're talking about, but I also the opportunity was presented to me to go to the hospital and become the chief administrative officer. And so I had, you know, I had HR and the foundation and construction and real estate, education. Um oh, there was probably something I'm forgiving, but you know, about five or six different areas of the hospital, all of it administrative. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

So but it was good because the beauty of but that's a big leap.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

It is a big leap.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

I mean, I know you believe that you can you can always learn, but I was asked by many of my friends, like, are you okay?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah, right. Share at the hospital for a reason. No, no, you did this willingly. Um, and I always uh so but the beauty of it was the lesson I learned amongst one of the biggest lessons was there's a beauty in going somewhere you're not you're not an expert, you don't know. And you get to be in a position, even if you're not an authority, but you get to say, why do we do it that way?

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Or I don't understand this. Could you explain it more? Yeah. And you know, those simple questions sometimes, even in known company, um, just elicits really good information. So people go, like, well, you know, this is because this is, yeah, but I talked to them over there and they said this is really hurts them. Yeah, yeah, right, right. Or or sure, or you know, I had this idea, what if we just skipped all that and just did this? What is there a problem? And then they have to think, well, what is the problem?

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Well, and isn't, I mean, St. Charles is also like, even as even as medical, even as hospitals go, it's a nonprofit, it's complicated, it's got I mean I have a ton of respect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Let me put it this way. I have a ton of respect for for the people when I was there, and I think this is probably true, for those frontline caregivers, um, it's a hard job. And you you work hard, you have a lot of responsibility, uh, you're looked at by the people coming to you to you as they need you, they need your help. The when I was there, the administration, and I've always I've heard this, you know, it was uh uh cumbersome, you know, and yeah, not great at that time. Right. And so that's I left after three years because I was sort of like, I've done my time here, you know. And real estate was picking back up. Sure, sure. So yeah, it was the time for me to go. And I ended up at Mosaic. Right. So then you did another uh I was a CFO. So I was on the board of mosaics, okay, and they they were letting their CFO go. And so I don't know if you've ever met uh Megan Hayes, but Megan's one of my favorite leaders in central Oregon.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

If you ever get a chance to talk to her, um Megan Hayes, Megan, we're in Ray Add to the list.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Yeah, add to the list. She's wonderful. Um, but um she goes, Hey, uh you know, you I was consulting at the time, yeah. I didn't go right back to Brooks when I left. And I was consulting in real estate development. And I had some clients, and when I had a client when I client Spokane and one in K Falls, and anyway, uh she goes, Well, could you step in? Could you do this on an interim basis?

SPEAKER_01 27:46

And I go, Well, while you're doing your I go I go, maybe like 0.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

you know 75 FTE. You know, I I'm gonna and she goes, That'd be great. We're we're gonna hire so you know, two, three months go by. I'm like, how's the search going for the new SIKFO? And she's in her classic way, just sort of smiles and goes, We were hoping you would just stay. And so I was like, like, we haven't really been looking at sorry, yeah. Right. And so I was like, okay, I'll I'll do it because I was managing the other stuff pretty well. And but I said to her, I go, you know, there's a good chance at some point uh that Brooks Researchers is gonna call me up and go, hey, come come back to work. And she goes, Okay, well, we'll just cross that bridge when we get there. Well, April or whatever, February of 2016, you know, they called and said, Hey, Mike caller and called and said, Hey, yeah, yeah. I I I said, Great, I'll I'll do it. I've I've laid the groundwork. But I, you know, I I uh in fact, after this discussion, I'm actually headed to a a meeting for Mosaic. Um I'm on their campaign committee for their Connors campus that they're okay trying to raise money for.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah, is they're just they're thriving.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

They're so they're doing great.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

I said they got a ton of money from the legislature and rightly so.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, no, no, they what they do in our community, most people just think they go to this is a plug from mosaic, but you know, it's a clinic, it's a medical clinic, right? Yeah, and that's way more. Yeah, I mean, who they're serving, what they're doing for our community, for people who need care. If you have a belief that everybody deserves health care, yeah, mosaic's your answer, right? That's that's a system that works.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Let me flip you back to real estate because now I mean I know you go back to Brooks and um I just my 10-year reunion oh after the first 17 years. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

You get double reunion, I get double reunions, bro. But I had a he gave me good babe going away party when I left at 17 years. And uh I when I took when I came back, I told Mike I go, I'll do it on one condition. He's like, Oh, what is that? I go, I don't know if when I leave next time, no party. We already did it. Yeah, we did that.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

We can just think all back about when you look at when you look at um the projects that Brooks has right now, what what are what are the things you're most excited about?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

New what we do. You know what's interesting is is that um Brooks Resources was formed in 1968 at a time, and they did projects that literally led to our current land use system. Others did too, but sure they were doing Toll Gate. Yeah, you know, outside of Sisters was a Brooks Resources project. Obviously, Black Butte was a Brooks Resources project. Right. Some of the subdivisions south of La Pine that are off in the woods, those were Brooks Resources, and so they were doing that. And um then, but they're also starting they had started Mount Baster Village in the 70s, the resorts, and then Aubrey Butte started in the early 80s. Um, so but the reason they that that in City of Bin, you know, Brooks Resources bought 1,700 acres from to shoot sand and gravel, Bob Coates, and basically it was all of Aubrey Glen, Aubrey Butte, the back nine of River's Edge, and everything down below Mount Washington, North Ram, Aubrey Ram Park, and all those subdivisions. Um, so they they bought 1700 acres there, and then we bought 480 acres for Northwest Crossing. Um, and we were doing what we knew how to do, which was large-scale master plan communities, right? And managing them through the whole process. Well, that those opportunities don't necessarily exist anymore. Yeah. Um, it's if they do exist, like for instance, the 245 acres out in the southeast, not where the library is built, but the other side of the of the gas pipeline, yeah. That came out to be and so uh I think Hayden Holmes bought it. We actually tried to buy it, um, but we didn't get to the table. Um, we'd try and do it with a partner, but um that those those even that property was so heavily prescribed by by comp plan designations that we knew we it didn't fit our model, yeah. You know, and so we had to have a partner, we had to have a home builder partner. Yeah, but those these that was the best opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

And that's what it seems like. It seems like those types of um Northwest Crossing type developments are if they're they're not even few and far between.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

They're not the reason Northwest Crossing is the way it is is because of the scale that we were able to work in. When you can work in a scale like that, you can build Sun Rivers and Black Buttes and Eagle Crests and Northwest Crossings or Aubrey Buttes, and you know, you you can really do bigger things because you can subsidize some of the nice things or look at things differently. We did Aubrey Glenn, we built a golf course. We never made a nickel on the golf course, it was an amenity. We're bought into that. It was gonna drive real estate sales and all that. That's fine. So we got to Northwest Crossing and we're like, well, we're not building a golf course. So what are we gonna do? Well, we're gonna build a downtown core. And we built the first five buildings, and I don't think we really they didn't generate returns that would be considered market returns until six, seven, eight years, until Sparrow got there, honestly. When Sparrow moved in, uh the the wine bar didn't we became a tourist destination. Then we became a tourist destination, right? No doubt. Um, so yeah, I mean this just became a critical mass. And yeah, but but yeah, we looked at that as our amenity. Yeah. So if if you think about it that way, then that's how that happened. Yeah. Because otherwise it it wouldn't have happened like that. And and then things just kind of grew from there. You know, we sold land yeah over by the high school and build people were building buildings and and um but yeah, those those opportunities don't exist anymore in bend. Right. Um and it's it's a natural progression of of our land use laws in our state, which we don't really have a beef with the concept. Um, we wish that there was more local control on honesty. We wish a city council could make certain decisions to do what they need to do for their city. Yeah. Um and that hopefully would be more timely and responsive uh to the need. But um, but we we believe in it because I I grew up in Las Vegas. If you if you you didn't want to live there, you just drove out in the desert and bought a hundred acres and somebody built a subdivision, and you know, it's like yeah, like a drive out. Yeah, it was just crazy how that place grew, like a Phoenix or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So, so what does it look like for you guys?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

So, yeah, so what we did um three years ago is we formed a joint venture with the Taylor Development Group, which is Todd Taylor, the old Taylor Northwest, have Taylor and sons before that, and their family now, because Todd had sold Taylor Northwest, and they had been building some buildings, and we built some buildings with them. Uh, the Chevlin Health and Wellness on Chevlin Park, all those little medical offices. That was our first group effort with them. That was right when I was leaving, when I left and went to the hospital. Yeah. Um, and but that wasn't a big strategy at the time. That was just sort of opportunistic. And then uh over by Hydro Flask, across the street from Hydro Flask, we built those. And then we were sitting around going, like, you know, we had this discussion about availability, and we said, our world's changing. You know, we're not gonna find 250 acres or 400 acres in a UGB that we can do urban development in that isn't heavily prescribed. And just so you understand, the piece on the other piece in the southeast was about 245 acres. The project we're doing right now, Discovery West, is 245 acres. We'll have 850 residential units out there when we're done. Right. The piece in the southeast, the city's comp plan calls for no less than 2600 residential units. Yeah. That's not us. Right. You know, right I mean it is what it is. We it's hard to be creative when you are so prescribed. Right, right. Um, so we're building buildings. So we formed Taylor Brooks, right? And we're investing our shareholders, we're a C corporation with shareholders, mostly all family members, Brooks family members. Okay. Um, from Minneapolis, oh well, all over the old the old logging. Yeah, the old logging science. We were a subsidiary of the mill for the Brooks Scanland. I remember. And um, so yeah, we're building buildings. We just we built, we just finished two warehouses for Saron Biomedical up in Juniper Ridge. Okay. We're building 115,000 square feet of industrial and flex space right across from Les Schwab right now. Yeah, haven't been up there, go look because it'll you'll be yeah, just don't drive off the road because you'll be like, what are they doing? Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we're building income properties, long-term income properties. We try to take the same philosophy. We build quality buildings that last and that they're durable, they're built well, and we manage our own properties. We formed Taylor Brooks formed its own property. We only manage our stuff. Um, that way we have a close relationship with our tenant, and it's not this arms transact. Don't ever call the landlord. It's like, no, you if you aren't happy with our property management, call one of us. Yeah, you know, and we'll figure it out and get it straightened away. And so we just believe in that that approach. Um what does it mean?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

What what do you worry about? I mean, you you you've got these buildings going, but just for Ben, you've been so instrumental in in designing and like you said, integrating land use. It even goes to Oregon at this juncture. And there's about they're about to go into the planning for the next UGB expansion.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

What are what are things that that um concern you?

SPEAKER_02 37:28

You know, I think um I'll always say that I think Bend has a decent development code. It it has the right focus on what we like to refer to, and they refer to as complete neighborhoods. Yeah. Um, that's the right mentality because there's no way we can all just, I our opinion, you can't just have all your services in the downtown because the town's gonna grow. Right. You've got to have areas. And Northwest Crossing is a good example. You don't you can't do everything you need there. You do need to go to other places to get things. Yeah, but theoretically, you can do a lot of things in your neighborhood, right? Yeah. And so, um, but that's the idea behind complete neighborhoods, and the city's code embraces that. So the what worries me is the is the execution of that, right? And so that can't can the city hold landowners and developers to that concept and will they invest? And right there's recent stories, right, where Polish got news press about selling some of their commercial land, and then that commercial land, the state passed legislation that said um on any commercial lands, you can it's okay to do affordable multifamily housing. And it just it leap leapt over all the zoning that cities had done.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

And so now you're just putting more homes in there without amenities. Right. So they're driving at this point, they're heading to Costco.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah, going somewhere or to one safe way right away. Yeah, and so Petrosa is the good example where you know they had it's a good sign. I think it's like eight acres, and they sold like three or three and a half. They didn't sell it, the people they sold the eight acres to sold this to. And the same thing happened at Easton done by Caldera. Okay, and so they sold some of the commercial, so sort of chips away at this idea, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Does the city have uh any leverage in and that's the big discussion right now? Yeah, like the city can't can't push back against Oregon.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

No, state law says you can build affordable multifamily housing on commercial zone, right? No, no questions, you know, right. None.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

You just do it in the push to get more affordable housing, in the push to drive down.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Which is great. I mean, we need affordable housing. You know, planning is a strong tool though. Look at we did the UGB expansion in 2016 and they adopted a new comprehensive plan that totally changed the direction of housing in Bend. We were building a uh 78, almost 80% single family detached, and maybe 20 or 18 multifamily and a little bit of townhomes and stuff like that. Well, when they adopted that comprehensive plan, and I don't remember the numbers exactly, but they flipped that not on its head, but they went from high 70s to like we're gonna do 50% single family detached. Yeah, maybe it's 55, I think. I don't know, and we're gonna do 35%. Yeah. Well, look at what we have. You know, we've seen multifamily be built.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Planning work. Right. Right. You know, so we're even if people don't know it's happening. I mean, that's the other part, is like they don't people are still thinking they're gonna get those single family dwellings, even though, as Ben bunches up in the UGB, multifamily is where it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yeah, there'll be a lot more of it. It'll be, and there's all the good there's you know, pros and cons. All the good reasons to do that is it's super efficient on all your services and utilities because you know, you're not extending lines out into the wilderness to get sewer and water there. Um, and you can do emergency services, they're easier to access. Yeah, they're new buildings. Um, but the negative would be is like the people who are there's always a gradient, right? There's somebody buying the three million dollar home. Yeah, and they're moving out of a two million dollar home, and that guy's moving out of a one million dollar home, and that guy that's buying the one, you know. So that there's a real gradient of how housing works. Yeah. And so what's gonna happen is they're all gonna become, you know, expensive homes. And so now, how do we where's the transition? Yeah, how do people have people get into single family? Like it or not, and this is sort of for the or for the state of work, like it or not, people actually like single family homes, yeah. You know, like a little yard and right, you know, sure, a little space. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's um naive to think that all of our apartment folks are just gonna settle with that. Yeah, I'm gonna live here 30 years and just live in an apartment. Yeah, yeah, it's just not reality. So is the mix right? Yeah, it's working. We had multifamily, that helps. Uh rents are actually stabilizing or coming down in places. They're not when you're doing renewals in these apartments right now, they're not getting bumps. Right. You know, so that's a good sign.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yeah, yeah. Kirk, we're at the end of our time.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Alrighty, that's went fast.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

I shouldn't have had all that comedy.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

I thought the same thing. I was like, I need to sit allowed. Um, anything that um you want to speak to that we haven't spoken to for readers, listeners, watchers, wherever the people are, you know, we say even in the recession, we had a saying at Brooks.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

We were, you know, we because it was very I left, it says why, right? But we had a saying which was nothing's changed in Bend other than the price of real estate. And it went down this scenario. So I mean, I still will contend. And when I first met you, you know, we were living happy, fat, and happy up on the hill over here. Right. And uh it was a quiet little town. I could walk downtown and see people I knew. And you know, maybe I don't run into as many people as I know, but it's still Ben now. There's we get a little short-sighted when um we live in it and we're it's busier on the streets or the stores or crowd, restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

If I don't make a light, you know, I get pretty angry. I was like, what is happening to this town? This is this is the end.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

This is this is the end. But you know, it's still a pretty great place to live. Right. You know, as a real estate developer, I've been told, you know, oh, you guys are ruining Ben. I heard that in a long time. Thank goodness I think the world is, but you know, for a while there back in the day, sure. And I always thought, you know, not for the guy who just bought his house. Right. Right. The guy who just bought his house that moved here from Timba to is like, this is the best place in the world. Yeah, so I'm always trying to reconcile, like, this guy thinks I'm ruining the price. This guy thinks it's the best place he's ever lived, somewhere in there. Uh right. It's like, it's a great place to live.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

So yeah, I I I have this con obviously have this conversation all the time with people who've been here for as long as we have, and and I refuse to become a curmudgeon. I I'm not shaking my cane yet. And I each year I'm like, okay, I still like the town, I'm still positive.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

I suppose, you know, it's gonna affect different people in different ways, you know. I can't, I lived in San Jose, I lived in Portland, I grew up in Las Vegas. So to me, this is a tiny little town, yeah. Uh only in size, but I think we're we're benefited by you know the abundance of great restaurants. We're benefited by really an excellent park system with parks that are available. We're benefited by access to open space and yeah, cool. You can drive an hour east and you could get out of your car and run naked through the Sage Resident. Anyone's gonna say, you know, so you know, it's it's it's there's all these things that are here for us. There's a river that runs through our town that's beautiful. Um, yeah, so you know, I I I guess my point is is like, you know, and what was it? Smile you're in Bend or something. What is it with bumper stickers?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah, right, right. Be nice, be nice and and break your television. I miss those too. I miss yeah, no kidding. Yeah, so yeah. Well, Kirk, thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Pleasure. Yeah. This has been the Ben Don't Break podcast. If you like what you heard, go to Ben Source.com, become a member, support the paper and uh all of our digital offerings, and we will continue to have great people like Kirk come on the show and uh and ramp us the source.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

It's a wonderful, wonderful addition to our community, right? Yeah, in order to go on the resource.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, thanks, Kirk. You've been listening to the Ben Don't Break podcast, powered by the Source Weekly. To read, hear, and see more of what we do, go to Benssource.com.