Bend Don't Break: Fiona Noonan, Wildlands and Water Program Manager

In this episode host Aaron Switzer sits down with Fiona Noonan, Wildlands and Water Program Manager. Fiona works with Central Oregon LandWatch to protect forests, wildlife habitat, and water resources across Central Oregon. A landscape ecologist with experience in climate planning, land protection, and natural resource management, she discusses her educational path from Stanford University to Boise State University and the work that brought her back to Central Oregon.

The conversation explores wildfire preparedness, forest management, water allocation, irrigation efficiency, and the long term challenges facing Central Oregon's public lands and rivers. Fiona explains how wildfire resilience, land use planning, and water policy are deeply connected, and why thoughtful management of these systems is essential to maintaining a livable future for communities across the region.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

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SPEAKER_01 0:22

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SPEAKER_03 0:45

I'm Erin Sleitzer, publisher of The Source and producer of this fine podcast, actually co-producer with Megan Burnham, who is off-camera. And we are here today with Fiona Noonan. She is the Wildlands and Water Program Manager for Centre Oregon Land Watch. As Centurion Landwatch's Wildlands and Water Program Manager, Fiona works on protecting forests, wildlife habitat, and water in central Oregon. She seeks to develop public land and water management approaches that meet the needs of both human and wild communities. Fiona is a landscape ecologist. Her interests have taken her all over the West, including Stenson, Yosemite, Yellowstone, and Leadville, Colorado. After growing up on the west side of Oregon, Fiona chose a home and career in the high desert. Prior to joining Centurion Landwatch, she has worked on land protection, climate planning, and natural resource management with the Schutz Land Trust, the Coalition on Oregon Land Trusts, and the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department. She earned a BS in Earth Systems from Stanford University and an MS in Geosciences from Boise State University. I also am the Boise State grad, so we have that in common. We're a research focused on human environment interactions, spatial analysis, and wildfire and sagebrush ecosystems. When not at work, VMira rafts, runs, backcountry skis, bikes, reads, and sews. Classic bend transport. That's a native thing right there. I mean now. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you for having me. Uh so Stanford, I'm gonna skip to the education part. Let's just start there. So Stanford, not an easy place to get a degree. So what was motivating about going to Stanford for Earth Sciences? Is Stanford, I know Stanford has a lot of good departments. Is it well known for earth sciences?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

They do have a lot of good departments. Um, and historically, geology has been one of them. Um, but as Stanford entered the modern age, they recognized that there was a space for a more interdisciplinary way to think about earth sciences. And so that's what Earth Systems is. It's their version of an environmental science program that focuses on how people and elements of earth systems function together or don't function together. Whatever case maybe. Um, and that was appealing to me as someone who's not strictly a scientist nor strictly interested in the humanities, it brought the two together really nicely.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Or did where were you before going to Stanford?

SPEAKER_02 3:19

I grew up in the Portland area.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Okay. Yeah. So you're you went from Oregon to California, which is not usually the way the water flows. But then came back. You know. And then you and then went to uh and then how long was your stint between university and then going back for your master's? Did you go direct? Did you go on to work?

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I moved to Bend to work for Ludaschutz Land Trust. I was lucky to get an internship there as a starting point. Um, and that internship turned into a full-time job, and that kept me here for a couple of years. And as part of that job, I think you mentioned I was focused on climate planning, and that was taking a look at how climate change would impact Central Oregon, what adaptation and mitigation look like in terms of local climate response.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

If only they would have listened more to you.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Well, they listened quite a lot, and it gave me the opportunity to think about bigger questions in the climate space and think about what else I might want to learn to add to the ways I might think about it's pressing questions and fire, you know, living here. Yeah. It's it's very top of mind. Today it's top of mind. Right. Back then, eight years ago, now seven years ago, it's top of mind. And I decided that it made sense to go back to school to get more skills in spatial analysis and data analysis.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

When does spatial analysis?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

It's mapping to a large extent. It's it's using data that you could display visually to understand spaces of different kinds.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

So in my case, it was three-dimensional, not just on paper. Because when I when you sense when I three spatial dimensions, well, my brain goes to NASA or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Oh, sure. Well, they're you know, they're supplying a lot of our racial data from space. Um, so that connection is is real. Yeah. And Boise State has an amazing set of programs, again, focused on human and environment systems, and that included a large focus on on fire in kind of arid and semi-arid regions.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

It's been a long time since uh I graduated from Boise State, and I'm not gonna age myself on this podcast, but um it was not known for having a lot of good master's programs. So I'm uh encouraged by the fact that I'm sitting with somebody who actually believes they do. So what uh and so your geosciences, and then were did you have a commitment to come back to Bend? Was this part of your work with um the land trust? Or did you finish out the go and get back?

SPEAKER_02 5:50

I finished and thought Boise was an awesome place to be. Kind of we can agree to display it. I came to love it, and um, so much of my professional and personal community was here that it made a lot of sense to come back. I have family here as well. And I knew that I had more interests and questions based on the ecosystems that are in Bend and around Bend. And so I decided to at least start by coming back and seeing what was out there.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

One of the notes in your bio was about um sagebrush fire, which I don't think well, we got the aqua butte, which is probably a lot of sagebrush um burning there, but it's not the kind of thing that I would think of in terms of like, oh gosh, I hope uh you don't have another sagebrush fire. I worry about the forest, right? Um why why focus on that? What and what's what's the thoughts there?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

That's a great question. I think you're right that the emotional resonance around sagebrush fires or grass fires isn't nearly as big as that around forest fires. There are places in forests that everyone has attachments to you revisit. Probably some people do in the sagebrush step as well. Um, but those fires tend to be in very remote parts of southeast Oregon, northern Nevada, southern Idaho, and they happen primarily in the region called the Great Basin. And so Oregon has its southeast corner, is is the Great Basin, but it extends quite a bit further into a lot more western states, including Utah parts of Arizona.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Well, the edge is Christmas Rock, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:33

It's right around, yeah, depending on how you define it. Yeah, there's an open debate-ish around that.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Um yeah, if when I see the wave marks at Christmas that and Christmas Rock, to me, that's the edge of that ocean. And yeah, I mean you can take it all the way to Solid City, they can have the other edge of that. I don't think that's fair. Um and you know I'm sure we're gonna have a bunch of academics calling in and like, I mean, well, let me correct you on this one.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah. And you know, part of what's interesting though about that space is it's it is understudied. It doesn't attract the same level of interest by a lot of people. Yeah. And sagebrush as an ecosystem type, and there are lots of subtypes, is um, it's imperiled for a lot of reasons. Yeah, fire being potentially among them, as well as invasion of annual grasses. There's all kinds of direct human interference of those systems, just physically removing sagebrush and its friend plants around it. Yeah. Um, and because we have so much of it near here and so much of it near Boise, as you know, it made sense to study and to be able to think about things that were locally relevant um beyond just the fact, but it's underscore.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

What um tell me a little bit more about what your job is at Land Trust and why does Land Trust have that position?

SPEAKER_02 8:55

At Lane Watch? Lane Watch. It's confusing because I've done the same thing myself. I'm sorry. Um so my role, as you said, is I'm the Wild Lands and Water Program Manager. And so that splits, as you can imagine, across wildlands issues, which for us don't focus as much on the sagebrush ecosystems in our area. They focus on the Deschutes and Oicho National Forest primarily. We think a lot about how we respond, or we do respond rather, to the projects proposed by both national forests. And we're really thinking about ways that we can advocate for balancing wildlife habitat needs with the recreational and resource extraction focus areas of those forests. Yes. Um, and to a large extent, the fuel reduction work that those forests are doing. We also work quite a bit on wildlife crossings. You may have heard of the Ben Subtle Lake Wildlife Passage Initiative. That's in there. And then on the water side, we're really focused on advocating for policies that will increase the efficiency of water use in the Deschutes Basin. And so that's looking at how our water is distributed across the basin, upstream of Lake Billy Chinook, who the users are, where the shortfalls are, and how those shortfalls could be addressed in ways that meet the river's needs while also meeting water users' needs.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Why does Landwatch feel as it as a nonprofit that they want to be at the hub of this? You know, I mean they're, you know, they they cut their teeth on preserving forest land and um appropriate development as it expands into forests. Um but land use has grown, and this is a good your position, I think, is a good example of that.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Um, why our overall mission is to defend and plan for Central Oregon's livable future. And you're absolutely right that protecting forests has been part of that, and that defending the land use system and defending our rural lands has been part of that. And our view is that you don't have a livable future in central Oregon without well-functioning forests and without well-functioning water systems, including our rivers, but also the way the water itself is used. Yeah. And so, in recognition of that, I think it makes a lot of sense that we've been building out this program over the last couple of years to address those further afield from land use maybe components of livability. Although they're all connected, it turns out.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Yeah. Well, and we when we were coming in when uh to speak to you then, Megan and I were planning, like, well, you know, what are we going to talk about in wildfires, obviously, right? And in our worms and and nose today. Hopefully, when this airs, it'll have cleared out. But you know what I mean. But um, I mean, talking about you you're doing wildfire and water, which is are two massive parts of um, like you said, how we're developing and and also they're they're hot spots, they're they're sensitive. Um let's just talk wildfire at first. And my passion is more in water, so uh if I cut you off, that's why. No, um, but since we are burning right now, um in your in in kind of the one of the questions I had is uh you talk about the things that the Forest Service is doing and how you're interacting with the Forest Service, but the Forest Services, I mean, uh in crisis right now with with the cuts that they've got, the lack of lack of staffing. I I mean, do you I can remember how it used to be. They were very vigilant. I I don't get the same impression now. What is your impression of working with the Forest Service under the current federal administration?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

I think you're correct that the the staffing cuts have impacted both the Hoshko and Chute's National Forest staffs. I will say that the staff remaining are um yeah, they're doing their best with limited resources in a lot of ways. We don't always agree with them, but the the commitment to making sure that our local forests are open to the public and are being managed to the best of what they think they they should be doing is is still there. Um but it you know it does impact decision making when there's a lot of turnover and it impacts what's possible on the ground when there are a lot of seasonal workers that aren't coming back for their key seasons to do, you know, whether it's trail work or carrying out any number of projects that you may not think about as a recreational user. It makes it makes a difference. I think we're also lucky that the staff we have here have still been open to dialogue with us to a large extent, even as you know, it's not just staff that are getting cut, it's opportunities for public input, for public process around what the Forest Service is doing. And we're doing our best to ensure there are still opportunities for public input here. Sure. It's yeah, the landscape is shifting. Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

No doubt. What do you consider to be the what's when you when you wake up in the morning, what is the first thing that comes into Fiona's head about on the fire front, I've got to do what? Or I've got to work on what?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

So one of the things we're really focused on increasingly at landwash is this recognition that you kind of alluded to the Forest Service doing work out in the forest, maybe to reduce fuels. And that's increasingly been a part of what our local forests do when they're talking about management, implementing management on the ground. And in terms of community safety and in terms of our vision for what a livable future looks like, the forest is a piece of it, no doubt. But what we can do closer to home feels much more pressing and much more available in a lot of ways. So we're thinking more and more about how do we advocate for policies around defensible space, around home hardening, around preserving the way that our land use system keeps population centers clustered rather than expanding out into the wildland urban interface, which is often one of the most dangerous places for fired ignitions and most fire spray. As an example right now. Um and so as much as it would make sense for me to first think of the forests given my position, what I'm actually thinking.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

I didn't think it was gonna be the trees. Yeah, get on your hoes.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

But what I'm thinking about is where of the places that we collectively can make decisions and prepare for the type of fire season we're having now, which is Yeah, it's kind of hard to think about in the moment while we're facing fires, what could have or should have been done, but we know those fires will will be back in the future.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

So I mean, speaking of home hardening and those kind of um initiatives, I mean, my sense has been there have been some developers, and I think Sisters has done a great job of getting out in front of home hardening. Um, but you do have pushback. What is your what is your feeling about the road forward with regard to home hardening? Are you seeing a lot of keen developer interest and adding these additional costs to their developments in the interface? Or do you feel like it's gonna be a fight?

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Well, I won't speak for developers and how they feel. Uh what we have seen though is local interest, both at the City of Bend level and then also at the Beschutes County level, in passing new building code standards that reflect the statewide building code standards for new residential building, and that includes requirements to build with fire-resistant materials. So that's the home running sphere, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:09

I still remember when I bought my house and the and we live in that interface, it had the search shingle roof, just awesome. Just a director thing with like 30-year-old dried pieces of wood sitting up there. And right. I feel like most of those are gone now, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah, less common at least. So, you know, I'm aware that there's an anticipated increase in cost to some extent for those developments. I think our position remains that the smarter long-term way to build is in the most fire-resistant, fire-safe way. So, you know, we've seen excitement from an app at local policy-making level and from some of our members and supporters who are involved in their own neighborhoods, your versions of whether it's firewise or something else, thinking about how they can improve their structure hardening and their defensible space, which is kind of the other side of that sphere of influence you have over your own property or your own neighborhood. Um, and that's been encouraging to hear.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

I feel like the city should just hold off on any kind of votes or any propositions around home hardening until like right now, like August, July, put those things forward. I feel like you're gonna have a way easier community evaluation because when it's in front of you, like, oh, this makes total sense. And then the smoke clears and it clears out of people's memories, and they're like, ah, but I want to I want a more affordable home. Because it is, it does come down to affordable housing and um, you know, a house that's gonna it's gonna be a little bit more to the developer. And so uh I'm saying August, you know, species. I support your um the well, the other um the other side of this is of your job is the water. And um, you know, the the thing that I find fascinating is that, you know, every year, and I realize that this year was particularly um bad for snowpack, but let let's set this year aside. Every year there will be a story that comes out, and it'll be in March with the papers and the thing. It's a drought year, you know, we we've got a drought year. And those water allocations that are based on um on that snowpack and the amount of water, it it's almost like the drought year is triggered by the overallocation of of water. It's triggered by this this concept that, well, if we didn't get the same amount of rain or snowfall that we got in 1889, well, we're hurting when that it doesn't feel like that to me. Like some of this has got to be normal, and I don't have stats and figures, but you know, I mean, sure, there's global warming for whatever reason. I think whatever, we'll set that aside. But let's just say for sure we could say we're not getting the snowpack, we were in 1889, and that's when a lot of these water allocations happened and turn of the century. So you're in your role, you're you guys are starting to reassess that. Let's say reassess rather than push back on the notion that this allocation is what is appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Yes, that's that is one way to put it. Um, and to your your point or your question about drought, we are in a drought and it's long term and it It is real. You are right, there is less water. We have less snow that becomes available water later in the season for a variety of reasons. And you are also correct that when allocation in this basin happened, when water was divvied out among all the different what are now our irrigation districts and all their farmers and users. We were over-allocated by before World War One. Right. Very early in the 20th century. The basin was fully allocated, and that wasn't even taking into account that the river should maybe have water in it sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Um luckfully we have that's a crazy notion. That's a 2026 notion.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Um we do in Oregon, in-stream water rights became a concept that was legislated in the 80s, and so we now can legally keep water in stream and give the river itself water rights, but that doesn't fix the whole problem. We still have the system of prior appropriation. First come, first serve, whoever was here on the land the earliest, got claim to that water first. Um, and so what we see is that many of the oldest irrigation districts, the ones that are closer. The bend in sisters that are relying on water from ultimately the Cascades, they get to use the water first, regardless of what they're using it for. They have an allocation that's set every year in part based on water availability. And as you go down the line of users, you get to the last to arrive. And that right now, or that is, the farmers up in Jefferson County in North Una Irrigation District. And so what you hear about frequently in the context of drought is that those farmers do not receive as much water as they potentially could in theory, even under their water rate. And so, you know, this is a this is a tricky issue. The the most productive farmers in our region by many metrics are are not necessarily getting the water that they need to continue being productive agricultural producers.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

When um the issue and I and these laws are Western wide. I mean, there you know, the the idea of this kind of allocation, and I mean Bend is a just a beautiful example of it, right? With their irrigation districts and the pro the the older users versus the minority users. But you're fighting um let's not say fighting, you're pushing back on a system that has been instituted western wide, and without a lot of success in freeing up this water, why now? And and why you?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Why now? The the problem is not getting better. We're seeing frums go out of business, certain key reaches of our rivers, both the Deschutes and tributaries, like the Crooked and Waiche's Creek, do not have enough water to support functioning fish populations and wildlife populations. And that that stress isn't going anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

There's no turnaround in sight for the trends where you don't think it's gonna start snowing a lot more in the future.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

And you know, we're not the first to engage with these issues. I hope we won't be the last.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

I think we're I think there are organizations like yours across the West.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Absolutely. And, you know, I think the the timing came together a few years ago at Landwatch to take a run at offering another set of perspectives on advocating on behalf of our rivers. Um, and we're yeah, we're fortunate to be able to have the space and ability to think through what some of the solutions to these really thorny issues might be. And so we're working locally to understand how things are unfolding on the ground. We're working at the legislative level to think about where might our representatives make changes to this system. If we if we're identifying that it's not working to serve all the different needs, um, then yeah, we think that's that's something that should change. Yeah. And so we're switching for for ways that will increase efficiency without taking away from what people need to use water for the purposes that they've been using it for. And in particular, we're thinking about, again, the river, right, the people who are using water for farming, and then kind of reichsizing water so that, you know, if you're getting more water than you need for a given crop, how might we think about where that additional water might go? How might we think about for these places that have become more urbanized? If those folks don't want all their water or don't want any of their water, what are their options? How can we expand the uh the available water just by moving it around, not by anticipating some kind of increase in overall water?

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Well, the irrigation districts have had some, we'll call it success, although it's over the dead bodies of the irrigation users to pipe those canals. So there is somewhat of a I think a precedent set to go in and hardscape and change the way that water is being used in that environment. But um, of course, all that was all all that's litigated every time they put one of those straws in the ground. So it's a long road.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

It is a long road. And you're you're absolutely right. But the irrigation districts have been working toward piping and in some cases are fully piped, like up in the Three Sisters irrigation district. And we absolutely support those piping efforts. They're tremendous. They also are tremendously costly and take a very long time. And so while that's happening, we're thinking about well, what else is there to do? And that's not just these policies that I've been talking about, but also on the the smaller level, we have everyone can think of a canal they've seen with water running through it, whether it's near Reed Market or 97 or up on the north side of town or elsewhere. Um, those are the big ones that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Yeah, I still can't believe COIC has that one no one's right now read. Right. And it's open.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Right. But what you don't see or know as much about generally is what we call private laterals. And these are all of the little teeny tiny canals that feed off of the big ones. That's how you get water to a farm. And all of those also could be piped. And so that's another example of ways we're thinking about how do we move this forward a little quicker.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

What my understanding is that it's the people at the very end of the line, the people who have dug their own little ditches and have flooded and put, you know, moved the day, you know, if you go to the original mapping of those irrigation districts, then get little tributaries that go over to this part and little tributary, and then you see the a massive amount of waste at the end. And where, you know, it's easy to focus on. Like I said, the obvious thing is when you're going down Reed Market and you look over to the right and there's this raging river, and it's not in a river. It's it's in the but I do know that it's that so much of that is out in the hinterlands that you're never gonna see. It's on private property. You're not gonna unless you've happened to stumble into your ankle deep wetland that been created out there.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah, it's a it's a real mix. It is both. Yeah, right. It's it's what happens at the end, it's what happens along the way, it's how the water is used, and all all of it is kind of a very thorny set of problems to untangle. Um, and it isn't it isn't any one entity's fault or one entity's design. In fact, some of it is like you just mentioned, it's kind of unknown. We don't know exactly where every little exhibit is.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah, I think that's what's most difficult is that in a lot of cases, like work that's been done to protect Badlands Wilders or something, you can look at the parcel and you know the entity that has a parcel is at the BLM. Well, we'll work with the BLM on how to do this. But with water, it's here one minute, it's gone, it's down here. This person's connected to this person. You you where are you gonna put where do you push back at? You know, you push back a little on your irrigators, politicians. I don't envy you.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

So a lot of people you gotta talk to. It is a lot of people, and I think you're right that it is a lot of these individual end users, and that's complicated, and everyone has a different starting point on their views. Um, and the fact that we have these irrigation districts as more or less the representative of each of these users in the different districts, in some ways gives a clearer point to focus on. Um it's not the only point, and there are a lot of different voices and opinions in your room, and a lot of considerations that are outside of this direct canal system, including tribal treaty rights and what happens much further down in the sitem and all s all kinds of things. Um, but you yeah, you're correct. There's no uh there's no clear single pathway forward. And so we're navigating what we think is a logical pathway right now.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

What is your so again, I'll put it to you. You you wake up in the morning, what's the number one thing you're thinking about in terms of uh your water work?

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah, I'm thinking a lot about how do we be more logical in this system? How do we match what people need to what they get? How do we change the system to make that happen? And it's possible there's precedent in some irrigation districts. And I think that there are a lot of ways to get there, whether it's through a water bank, which the legislature recently passed an Schutz water bank bill. So it exists and now it needs to be filled. Um, you know, and whether there are other opportunities for making this system more logical, more efficient, reducing waste. I think, you know, time and again I hear from people in all parts of life in Ben that people can feel that there is water wasted in these various ways, even if they don't know all the mechanics of it or exactly why it's happening. This feeling that we could do better, I think, is still pretty prominent. And so, yeah, that's what we're thinking about is where do you where do you stretch make inroads on reducing waste in a way that keeps everyone, including the river, whole?

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah. Well, we are unfortunately at the end of our time. And I knew it because you got fire and water. So it's kind of like separate podcasts. So we merely have but one. Anything that you want to say to listeners or readers that we might not have touched on, or I know there's an ocean of them, and I'll burn fire on them. A river and a reservoir of them.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Um yeah, I think it's it is such an interesting and tricky problem to be thinking both about wild wildfire and about water. And what I mentioned earlier, that there are these kind of overlapping and intersecting facets of livability in central Oregon is really core to what we're doing at Landwatch. And I think we're we're trying to think through these things not as separate issues, but really altogether. You know, our cities and towns are not separate from the way we think about wildfire preparedness. And our farms and forests are integrally, integrally connected to the way we think about water distribution and kind of keeping the whole picture in mind is, I think, you know, what we're trying to do and what we hope others get excited about with us as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Well, thank you for um coming in and sharing. And uh again, I you're the list of people you have to talk to on a daily basis when I think about the the issues as mind-numbing to me.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Well, it's uh it's a fun challenge. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

I love it. This has been the Bendo Break podcast. Uh if you like what you heard, go to bensource.com, become a member, support us. Then you can head over to uh Landwatch and you can and you can support them. And then uh yeah, we just you can just keep the trend rolling. Thank you for spending some time with me. I know you can you can spent put your ears in many different places, and we appreciate you listening. Fiona, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. You've been listening to the Ben Don't Break podcast, powered by the Source Weekly. To read, hear, and see more of what we do, go to Bensource.com.