Miss AI Podcast

He Grew Up Broke on a Farm. Now Prints $$$ with AI Sales Calls

• Keira Nesdale • Season 1 • Episode 6

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:01:32

What if your best salesperson never got sick, never had a bad day, and worked 365 days a year across calls, texts, emails, and DMs? 

That's exactly what James, founder of Meditech AI and creator of RizDial, has built.

In this episode of the Miss AI Podcast, Keira sits down with James to unpack how AI is completely transforming lead generation, marketing, and sales and how businesses of every size can plug into it.

In this episode, we cover:

  • What RizDial is and why it's become the go-to AI voice agent for medical practices, home services, HVAC, roofing, and more

  • How James uses AI to scrape Reddit, X (Twitter), and comment sections to generate hyper-targeted ad hooks before spending a dollar on creatives

  • The "alphabet testing" method: how to flood Meta with low-cost static ads to find winning hooks fast

  • Why AI voice agents are outperforming human callers in real-world tests

  • The difference between OpenClaw and Claude and why James uses both

  • His journey from knocking solar doors in Arizona heat to building a 100,000-call-per-month AI platform

  • The exact roadmap to your first $1,000 (and then $83K/month) as an AI consultant



Whether you're AI-curious, building your first automation, or scaling an agency this episode is packed with actionable sauce.

🔗 Connect with James: @aiguyofficial on Instagram
🔗 Learn more: https://www.skool.com/evolving-ai-hub...

Don't forget to like, subscribe, and drop your questions in the comments. New episodes weekly on the Miss AI Podcast with Keira Nesdale.

SPEAKER_01

We are live. Welcome to the Miss AI Podcast, Jenny. It is a pleasure to have you here, and today we are going to rip into one of the most requested topics that I get uh all throughout my social medias, which is how do you use AI for marketing and lead generation and closing those sales? Because I feel like there's so much potential where we can use AI and to do these sort of automated workflows. And you are the guy that is actually out there building it. And so, how are we gonna jump into this today? Let's just start off by give us a wee introduction. What would you tell people that you do when you first meet them?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, for sure. A little bit of elevator pitch action, yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Um, I'm the founder of uh MetaTeg AI, it's our holding company. Um, our most popular software, which people come to us for, is called Rizdile. And it's a funny name. Uh Gen Z. I know. I I built it for my sales team, and uh, you know, because I'm young, whatever. And when I built it for them, I just made the decision. I was sitting on the toilet and I was like, yeah, just gonna call it Rizdile because you gotta have charisma in sales in order to like sell a customer. Duh. So anyway, it gets that name, and then uh I ended up uh you know exiting my solar company, and uh all the my sales team was on the dialer and it held the name because all these other like industries started using it. So we were building a brand around it to the point where I'm like, okay, at this point, I just can't change the name, I just have to own it. So anyway, we we come to you know, three and a half years later, we're we're making over a hundred thousand calls, automated and manual across, you know, every industry. And uh we're we're booking appointments for medical practices, home services, you you name it. And then our AI bot doesn't just call, it also text, emails, DMs for 365 days until the person buys or dies. So you attach that with the marketing component, it's a complete wrap. So nobody can stand a chance now with AI. So you have to be creative, you have to be persuasive, and then you also have to understand psychology. A lot of ups and downs, but that's who I am.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. The name and the I guess the curation of a business is uh from the toilet seat, but look where you're going now. You said 100,000 calls, uh working 365 days a year across all avenues. And um, you're totally right, is that AI doesn't have a sick day? Uh they're constantly doing it and constantly working. So, like you mentioned, so I think one of your main products is obviously like this voice automated AI, right? And so, like, what has been um like your um uh main client when people come to you and be like, hey James, and they we want to automate things with AI. Like, has there been pushback from using like AI-generated voices? Because that's like a little bit of friction, I feel like when people are talking, either with like text message or like on a f on a conversation to AI, sometimes they're like just we're out. So, how have you dealt with that?

SPEAKER_02

I think you're asking for the sauce right now. I think you're asking for the objection handling. No, so the objection handle rate is let's say you're a restaurant, right? And you're taking your wife or husband, whichever way you swing, on a date, and you call five restaurants, okay? And four don't answer, but one answers and it's an AI and it knows the menu and they have a reservation, or you can go there, you're like, dang, I'm just glad I got to talk to somebody. So that's what we do we show our customers is like your customer wants your service if they inquire about it. So if they inquire about your service, they're just gonna be happy to talk to somebody, not necessarily that it's an AI. And AI is so good now with the cloning of the voices and being able to reduce the latency super down to like milliseconds, that if it's witty, it's gotta like at least have like a little bit of make them laugh, a little bit of like a little bit of something to it besides just an AI. And um, it's all about the intro. Like you're gonna lose somebody within that first 10 seconds. So if you can nail the first five to 10 seconds of the call and you can answer their questions and you know, stay on the AI can stay on its toes, then you're good and you earn their business and you know increases their belief in that AI will convert them. And I always tell them too, I mean, it got you on this call that we're on right now. So what do you think it's gonna do for your customers?

SPEAKER_01

I got a good one for you because I saw it the other day and uh it was a voice automated uh AI agent. It called up a person. I don't know what industry it was in, and they were like, Hey James, um uh nice is Kira here. Um, do you want the good news or the bad news? And the guy's like, uh, like uh the the bad news and he's like, Well, the bad news is that this is an AI-generated voice calls, but the good news is it's like a highly curated uh voice call. We've picked you out, we've you know, like, and like gave them that instant value. So I think you're totally right in saying that if if people are talking or communicating with AI, as long as they're either like entertained by it or getting some sort of value from it, um, they're still likely to engage with it. And you're totally right in the respect of like that. I mean, 11 Labs is probably one of the gold marks and is for voice generation out there, but like it's getting so good, even like because I've got a New Zealand accent and um I've played with mine, it's still not fantastic, but the New Zealand accent is like getting way, like, way more improved every time I go back and test and play with it. So, um, and you can do access from all over the world, but I think it's uh definitely evolving, and um, yeah, it's cool that you are like leading this over there. So, is are your main customers uh in America or are you going globally? And like, do you have uh some sort of industry that you're finding you're getting more inbound leads from? Or like where are people looking to use this?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, great question. So the uh the first question that you had was Um are we going worldwide with it? And I mean, I'm staying in America right now. It's just like I know that American businesses, I know how they operate, and we talk with a lot of founders. And the goal of talking with these founders right now that we've switched like our whole model, and I'm I'm about to give everybody watching some some sauce, is like we switch from just being like product pushers, because like obviously, like I'm software, you know, we have a so we're software company, so we're SaaS, but software with the service is what people are buying. It's got to be you know, software as a service, but now it's software with the service is what they're buying, and our model is like increasing the evaluation of the company. So when you talk about like in America, I don't know like how it is in New Zealand, but at the end of the day, they have to um at a company in order for it to have a you know a great evaluation and be able to sell or exit at one one day, because when you talk with founders, there's there's two questions you ask them. It's like at the end of this business journey that you're going on, are you either gonna is it gonna be a cash cow or are you gonna sell? Which one is it? Right. And it's either one of those two. So based on one of whatever that second one or third one is or first one is, then you have to say, okay, from there, if you own your tech stack, you're gonna be 30% more valuable. If you can control your leads and you have persistent lead flow and the founder's removed from the company, you know, can if the business can operate without the founder there, it's obviously sellable. But if it can't, it's not even a sellable business. So we we lean into that when we sell it, and uh at the end of the day, it's just one of the components that drives the interest, and then the marketing and automations and all the back-end stuff that we're doing is just an addition.

SPEAKER_01

So I hope I answered your question, but um that that's that's what I that's yeah, and I think uh staying local in America is wise in the fact that because every different country, even I've started to notice it has different laws and regulations around, or even in the state in the different state within America, but like has different um policies that you must do or can't do, or um, I know it's different per different areas. So, like, yeah, dialing in on your on your customer, then you become like the top or knowledgeable in exactly implementing that solution. I think that's totally key. So what do you think is actually first of all, I want to dial it back because uh the audience, I want to like tell them exactly like what is RizDal? What is uh lead generation through uh AI automation um using your voice? Like, can you just like dial back on a very simplistic way of like what is your product that you are selling to generate leads and sales for people?

SPEAKER_02

Our product is a sales-trained AI that any business can plug into their practice if you're a medical practice, their home services business, if you're HVAC or solar or roofing company, that can not only answer calls, but it can also make calls. And the the AI caller, like think about it just like a human agent, right? You feed it like a knowledge base, you feed it like it's script, you feed it like here's your guardrails, here's all your do's, here's all your don'ts, and then here's like in the middle, this is where you need to stay. So, you what how we explain it to business owners is you're training your best salesperson once, and then you're never having to train it again. So imagine if you go hire you, Kara, and then from there, imagine like you come on as a salesperson and you onto any company, XYZ company, you could say maybe you're for a solar company, okay? And that solar company can guarantee that you're gonna do the sales process the exact same way every single time, and it's the best way to do the sales process every single time, every single way. And so you stay consistent to that, and that's what the sales trained AI, the difference between a sales trained AI that has spam protection so it doesn't get hit as flagged by spam by the carriers, because in America we have ATT Verizon T Mobile, and there's like eight main mitigators that actually like look for spam-like activity that's going on on the carrier network. So, where we position ourselves is like a AI sales-trained AI voice agent that can get through to your customers to sell them on whatever product that you're offering to be able to book an appointment, do a live transfer, or even in some cases, close the deal live on the call.

SPEAKER_01

Fantastic. And um, just to dive a little bit deeper on that as your product, because uh you mentioned uh medical industries or some of the guys that you guys are dealing with. Like, how do you maintain uh privacy for the for your clients? Like obviously that's a massive uh topic around here because you're dealing with high highly sensitive information. Like, how do you ensure to your clients that everything is uh on lockdown, you know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it's just about having super clean documentation from a development standpoint. Um, we have we sign a BAA with them, right? We take you know PII personal information as super high highly classified. Usually they're booking into a CRM, like Salesforce or Go High Level, or they have like their own, you know, EHR like health electronic health record system where they store store their client data. So even at some point, we're open an open source platform. So developers can come build on top of our platform and actually um host it on their own server as well, so that we don't even have to be part of that. We'll just become the engine and then all the data stays with them so they have all that. So any client that's concerned about that, and any big medical client that's concerned about that, we give them the utmost ability to build everything and key house everything as their own. So they don't have to rely on us and then our all of our for us it's a headache too, because we don't, I mean, it just becomes a hassle at scale. So yeah, we have HIPAA compliance on our platform, you know, audited uh that auditing process was is sucked. We did it last year. Um, so we signed a BAA with our clients, and then um we we let them uh become very, very confident in the platform that they they're gonna we're gonna keep their data safe. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you've got you've created this product which is fantastic at generating leads across all industries. And how are you finding your own customers? So are you using your own product to generate your own leads?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, 100%. And that's the ads generation creation portion, which is a good idea.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I wanted to dive deeper onto this. How are you using AI one to make your ads? How are you using AI to then curate and make sure that you're getting ROI on your ads and making sure that you're getting them in front of the right audience? And then how do you use AI to convert that ad um into like into the sale? And then last question is what type of ads work best? Like carousels, text, uh video, kind of that that's sort of where I want to go with all of that.

SPEAKER_02

So okay, cool. So you're familiar with obviously like open claw, cloud code, uh things of that nature, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Oh, I am loving that um knowledge map.

SPEAKER_02

All right, so so so if you um if you know anything about AI agents, like they lose context over time, right? So you have to you know create a massive knowledge map. So this knowledge map is stored on my Mac Mini, also stored on my MacBook Pro that I'm on right now. And this, along with you know, how I use cloud code, which I just use it inside of Visual Studio, which I think is the best way to set up. And I won't back up my statement on that right now because there's there's not enough time to. But one of the biggest things in marketing as we speak right now is the ability to be able to reiterate fast. Okay, so meta, let's just talk about meta for now. Facebook, Instagram, Facebook, Meta. So with Meta, they just wrote out their new updates called Andromeda. And the biggest thing to note about this update is it is promoting posting. Okay, that's it. Promoting, posting. So as just like with organic, to get a viral video, you and I both know because I saw I saw your social media, I'm starting to grow mine as well, is you have to just stay super consistent on posting. So it used to be that you could create an ad in, you know, 20 back when you know Meta first launched the ability to even even run ads, which um I wasn't even running ads at that time, but when I started running ads in around 2020 to 2021, you could launch a half, you know, a half-assed ad and it would it would run for three to four months and it would it would it would perform well as long as it's just calls out your avatar and you're gonna get hits and you're gonna get conversions and you're gonna get very cheap, you know, CPL cost per lead. But now what Meta is wanting you to do is just again people what people are doing is they're flooding the platform with creative because it's becoming easier to create because of why AI. So what we do that's like this is game changer for any agency that that's watching this, is we have a platform that it's not that hard to build. You could probably build this with cloud code. You go in and you scrape Reddit, you scrape Twitter, you scrape X, you create you scrape Google keywords, you scrape comment sections of communities, and what it does is our AI voice agent actually does the interview as the best marketer in the world. It's trained on all the best marketers in the world, Alex Chermozzi, um, you know, Dean Graziosi, all the best marketers of the world, like in your opinion, Russell Brunson, every everybody who you could think is the best marketer. It's trained on all that data to where it does the interview. Okay, the voice agent does the interview with the client, and then this interview feeds back to the system, which then goes out and does all the research across every single platform. And guess what it gets? It gets every objection that a client could say about your product or offer, it gets every single um question that they're asking, right? Every concern that they could possibly have. And then from there, it outputs an output kind of like this is a water company that I was doing this, like a water filtration company I did this for right before this call. And it generates viral hooks based on stats, stories, curiosity, um, story, call out, you know, ADA framework attention, desire attention, right? So why do water systems companies hide their pricing until you're trapped in a two-hour sales pitch? So it generates all of the hooks, okay, all of the questions that people are asking. And then from there, you take that to Cloud Code with Nano Banana Pro, which is you know Google's image generation tool. And from there, you make the static ads, okay? From those static ads, the goal is not to get leads, the goal is not to necessarily attract customers, the the goal is to see which hooks are resonating, okay? Before you go spend money on either AI creatives or pay UGC creators, which is a user-generated content video, where somebody you is a paid creator, usually where you have to pay them, and then you have to pay them to edit it, and then you launch. Now, what every marketing company is doing right now is they are going to AI saying, Hey, I just onboarded this client. What should the scripts be? And there's going to chat GPT, going to Claude, and then they're just like, okay, this is good enough. It looks good. I'm sent to the client. If they approve it, boom, if they don't approve it, a little bit of reiteration, and then they're launching and going with their gut feeling. What we're doing is we're taking a step back before we even do the scripting process, before we even create the ads, and we're launching these tons of variations of static ads to generate, see which one is attracting the most interest, which people are stopping to scroll, what's the click-through rate, and then from there creating the UGC ads, and then from there creating the mini VSLs that you're going to run as paid ads on your platforms. Now, I know I went a little bit fast there, but um, do you have any questions about the process so far?

SPEAKER_01

No, I think the process is highly defined, and what you're doing is you've actually like by getting the information or the data from Reddit and also like comment sections, you're actually finding out the intent from like people, like what are the people wanting? And then you're creating these very low cost uh and quick to generate and quick to publish to get your A, B, C, D. Sounds like the whole alphabet testing that you're doing, flooding the platforms. And you're saying that again, meta are now like they're just wanting more content, wanting more content. So you are able to collect so much data and then bring that back in. And then that leads your marketing costs is actually way more, um, you get better ROI when you're going out to doing the more high exact you know, when you're actually employing somebody to create or do like affiliate marketing for you. So you're probably going to get a higher success rate. So you're actually even setting up your uh your affiliate marketers to be more successful for them, like the content flywheel is already like tested, like, hey, here's five or here's three hooks that work, and this is what we want you to talk about because this is actually what the people are wanting answers for. So I think the whole entire like generation of that is fantastic. So do you offer that service for your clients and are you also doing it for yourself to generate leads to tell people around like, hey guys, voice agents are ABCD or like uh AI marketing is like user users. Is that how you kind of doing both?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we're we're a full service marketing agency and then software company. So uh we on our website we have us branded as the nation's largest software development and marketing agency, and we uh like AI, you know, first marketing and software company. So yeah, we do the full circle, but it's just a matter of what the client needs when they come to us. So we handle it like a doctor, like a diagnosis, like a qualification process, and then we have the different packages. So um, yeah, that's that's we offer the full thing, but maybe the client's coming to us for one or the other. And then once we get him on, maybe for one of the things, what we've realized is that they don't end up having the same successes if they follow the this the exact process from generating the ads to lead coming in to like it's the whole thing. It's not like so. We started telling people, I'm like, if you're not gonna use the whole entire thing, then like we don't even want to do business with you because it's a machine, it's a Ferrari, it's ready to go. So if you want to like take off the muffler and you want to like take off the engine and and and all that, then like by all means go ahead. But it's a smooth running car if you just let let the car let the car run straight out the dealership, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Well, speaking of cars running, this is actually how I found you on Instagram. I was, you know, on the Doom Scroll, and my whole entire feed is all AI and all people generating and building with AI. I love it. Um, and I came across a video and it caught my attention just like that. It is a video of you driving down the freeway, and you are in a car that is driving by itself. You're unboxing your Mac Mini uh for the first time, and I was just like, what the heck? This is insane. It felt like I was just watching the future. Um, and so yeah, like for you, how did that moment feel when you were unboxing your Mac Mini and gonna be plugging it into some of the most innovative AI tech that there is out there while driving in a fully automated car? Like, talk me through that moment.

SPEAKER_02

I live in Dallas, but a little bit on the outskirts in this area called Fort Worth. It's like uh cowboy town area, blah, blah, blah. But there's it's it's very city-like too. Like, there's I live next to a place called South Lake. It's actually the richest city in like all of Texas, like voted to. I live next to it, not in it, because I'm not rich, guys. I'm not rich at all. But um, we they have an Apple store there. I went to that Apple store, all the Mac minis sold out. I went to every Best Buy within a 20 mile radius, all the way sold out. I'm like, can you order it online? They're like, no, we don't even have them online. And I wanted a very specific one. I wanted the 24 gigabyte RAM. Um, because it's what Grok suggested me to get based on what I'm trying to do with it. Anyway, I go to that Best Buy, then I call this Best Buy, and I'm like literally traveling all around, like all Day, I just took a Friday off to find this Mac Mini and I finally called this one place, it's like a huge electronic store in Dallas, and they said, Oh, yeah, we have one left. And I'm like, Okay, hold it for me. And I drove there, picked it up. It's all like it felt obviously really good because I was trying to run uh open claw on uh and uh cloud code on my like eight gigabyte, it's like a 2017 Mac Mini, and it was sounding like a car, like you know the the the fan. So I ended up um going and uh found finding that and I was just like thank god I finally found it. And then I told my head of operations, I'm like, hey, we're about to like change the way that we do business and we're about to fire so many people. So then I just did the post. And uh, because uh you know, I'm sick of laziness, I'm sick of like, you know, VAs like not giving it their all, and like maybe they do give it their all, but they work at night, so they actually can't give it their all because the brain is just more prone to working during natural daylight hours. Like, I get it. There's all the different precautions and human unknowns. Um, so it's maybe not replacing them, but putting them in a position where they can excel better, um, whether it's client success, uh, relationships, stuff of that nature. So I'm I'm just going through one thing at a time and and and automating it through the business. Like, okay, this is not good, okay. Solution. Okay, this is not good, okay. Solution. So probably just like everybody else, right?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And that's the cool thing about AI, and and one of the reasons behind doing this podcast is because there's so many people out there that are building and building and learning on the fly. And it's uh, you know, there's no manual that comes with your Mac mini that tells you how to operate Claude and download open claw like this, just you gotta figure it out. Um, and I think that when you start to understand the capabilities of AI, I think I actually read a um uh report that was uh released by Anthropic, and it was it was looking at what people are actually using Claude for, and uh it said that we that humans are only using it for about 10% of like the actual capacity that it can actually be used for. So there's 90% of unused capacity that you know, always automations and workflows, and I've been playing around with it, like generating music and generating little holograms, and it's just been so much fun. Uh, and I think we're all start to see people dude. The other day I saw another guy who was had turned their laptop into a xylophone. And I was like, what is going on with this?

SPEAKER_02

Um that's yeah, I saw that too. I think it's a GitHub repo that you can add as a cloud skill or some crap like that. Like, what? How do you have the time? I like see those types of things, and I'm like, if I only had the freaking time, like I don't know if I would do it still, even if I had the time, but like what are they doing?

SPEAKER_01

It is amazing. But so you mentioned there, like you you bought you got your Mag Mini, and how is it gonna change your business or how has it changed your business? And then in that discussion, can you talk about uh the difference between how you use OpenClaw and how you use Claude Code?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure. As far as it changed my business, like um I haven't even unlocked, like you said, 90% of the capacity, but the the 10% that it that it has changed is that I just have it always on working on something, no matter what it is. Um, we record all of our meetings, so like uh with Fireflies, Fathom, like any of those note-taking apps, right? And so I have it connected to that. And all day long, it's like looking at the meetings to give me the synopsis by the end of the day, and not only that, be able to like tell me, hey, this client is at churn risk, they're pissed off about XYZ. Here's exactly how to solve it. Um, because you know, they'll meet with the operations team, they'll meet with the client success team. It's scraping Slack all day long to for the conversations. So it's sending me like SLAs and like support levels, like it letting me know, like as a founder, like what I need to be keeping an eye on. So by the morning, I can send my operations team and say, hey, these these clients are at flight risk, these ones need to be you know monitored more. That's like helped us, and we have less than a 2% churn rate. I've I can't sleep at night unless I'm delivering for my client. You know, I just like I just picture it as my own business, and like if I go pay for something and uh I'm just like I cannot deal with a client not being satisfied, it just like is not in my DNA. So I'm mostly using it on the on that side of uh things. That's like my number one priority is client satisfaction. So um I know it sounds cliche, but I mean I'm just like I I need to know that they're doing amazing and they're happy in order to feel good. So that's that it's kind of a it's a something I have going to my mind that just like a little bit crazy about me. Like I can't sleep. That's not crazy, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Like that is standards. I love that. That's not being crazy. That's like thinking about detail and uh providing value for your existing customers to like the nth degree. And because you're doing that, those clients then you know turn in and start referring you more business because that you're actually changing their life, building their business, improving their evaluations or getting more ROI, you know, like I mean, so I think that is like definitely um a great mindset for you to be like channeling.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure. And and um, it's it's so crazy all the fly-by-night agencies that you see out there that are just gonna sell AI because they think they understand it, and then they just sold snake oil and it ruins the industry for the rest of the rest of the people. I've already been part of seeing a whole evolution of an industry going from amazing in solar all the way to the decline of like solar's a scam. Like I've I saw that whole entire cycle from start to finish being in the industry. So um I just don't want this industry to that we're in to end up being like that. So I want to be able to like provide as much knowledge as humanly possible, share as much for free, and just go all in on just providing value and like sharing the actual ethics of like, hey, this is actually how to do it, so that you're like providing the client with something that they can actually use and and for years and years and years be a client of yours. Yeah. So huge on that.

SPEAKER_01

So talking about actually how to do it, um, the question around OpenClaw versus Claude, can you tell us like how you're using them differently? How do they overlap? Um, just for somebody a lot of this audience are AI curious, starting to learn OpenClaw, starting to learn Claude, and just like wanting to implement these sort of technologies into their own either personal lives or professional lives. So, like, what's the difference? Break it down for us.

SPEAKER_02

Ooh. Okay, so I'm gonna put I'm gonna put it into two buckets. So imagine if you could only go, because Costco's a worldwide company, right? You guys, you guys, you know, you know what Costco is?

SPEAKER_01

Costco, yes, Costco.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Like wholesale, like a whole store, you know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like food, food, groceries, all that. So think about Costco um being clawed, okay? And then think about, okay. Yeah, and then because they're they're in America, they're known as like the the you go buy your bulk food, they're like they're the go-to. They have the cheapest gas. So like if you uh you know have the choice to go to this gas station over that gas station, you have a Costco membership, you're gonna go to Costco, right? For to buy all the commodity products. Do you know what a commodity is? Like oil, gas, like whatever, right? So, anyway, anything that can be bought somewhere else uh for a better price becomes a commodity. So uh Costco, uh Anthropic is the Costco in my mind. It's how that's how I see it. Yeah, and all of the other um gas stations and food stores that you could go to are OpenAI and Gemini and Grok and all these other models. Now, the thing about it is is some of these stores become better or have better products selling at them or at better prices sometimes than Costco. So I don't want to only limit myself to only going and shopping at Costco every single day for the rest of my life. So the difference between OpenClaw and Claude is that you open claw is open, that's why it's called OpenClaw. So you have the ability to ship between all these other models, and then with Claude, you're just locked into one model. But it is the best model for most things. So that's like the biggest difference for me. I've been really liking Codex and ChatGPT, and I've uh five five, uh what's it 5.4 now? Yeah, we're at the 5.5. Yeah, crazy. Um, crazy. I miss my 4.0, my baby. 4. 4.0 is so personable. Uh it told me everything I wanted to hear. I'm just going.

SPEAKER_00

But were you feeding it?

SPEAKER_02

I know. And as soon as the 5.2 came, I'm like, dang, I'm like talking to you know, someone who hates me. It was your game one done. Yeah, yeah, I know. But um, yeah, so I've been loving using OpenCloud 5.4 with a $20 OpenAI subscription, and it can get most tasks done that it needs to. And the biggest thing I use OpenCloud for is scraping the you know, master memory vault that I have that saves that that cloud I'm using cloud on my desktop all day long. And then I go away from my phone and I go to the gym and I want it to keep working. Well, I can use OpenClaw and Claude dispatch at the same time to um be able to go do those tasks. You know, OpenAI has been good for image generation as well. So those are the that's the biggest difference, and I think that's how you should look at it. So, do you want to be provider-locked with Costco for the rest of your life, or do you want to have the ability to shop on Amazon sometimes?

SPEAKER_01

And that's Yeah, I love the analogy. It's perfect. It's a great breakdown. Um, and uh because as we've just experienced this last weekend uh when uh there was a little bit of a storm online, and because uh people were initially using um Claude as their preferred model for OpenClaw, uh, because there was like $2020 a month, and you could pretty much have unlimited usage uh using this model for your OpenClaw. And um then Claude like, no, not anymore. Uh no longer were you allowed to use a $200 subscription model um for third-party services like OpenClaw. So that's exactly what we have seen. Is like they they cut the umbilical cord, cut the lifeline to of one of the models, but what we've seen is the OpenClaw community has been able to be dynamic, they've shifted and now you know using a lot more um open open AI models or you know, whatever model that they specifically want and sort of compartmentalizing actually how they're using their open claw model. Um I think that's exactly like the fundamentals behind it. Do you want to be locked in into one ecosystem, like into like a big tech, you know, or do you want to have that freedom and flexibility to sort of explore everything? So how have you set up your um open core system? Do you have like a mission control or like one age, one head agent with lots of like sub-agents, like a marketing agent and a social media agent and a research agent? Like, how have you sort of set up that whole entire system? And then the other follow-on question from that is like, do you like build specifically in Claude and then like put it on uh like in a GitHub repo or whatever, and then transfer it across to give it to your open claw to like continuously work?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, got it. I'll answer the first question first. So, yes, I have a mission control. I just got like a one that was like the best one I could find on on on I I use Grok a lot. I think Grok is amazing at scraping X and and uh Reddit because it's built by by you know Elon, Daddy Elon, and um and he owns X, so it's it's like my best source of data. So I'll talk with it a lot, especially when I'm driving. I don't listen to music anymore because I drive Tesla, so I just listen to it there and uh talk with it about stuff, and that's how I like find out what I how I want to do stuff typically. So to answer your question, what was it again? Sorry. What was the first question? Oh, mission control. Yeah, so I just found like the best one that at the time and I installed it and I barely even go to it anymore. My my Mac Mini just like stays off and I just talk to it through Discord. And um, so I have Discord agents and I have all the sub agents there. So I have like the marketing agent, I have like the automation agent that goes in and plans all the automations, then I have like the sales agent that analyzes all the sales calls, and I I can actually add my team to there so they can like and they're I containerize the models so they can't like access like necessarily all the information, but the information that's like relevant to them. So that's how I've customized it. I I love it in Discord right now. Um, some people are saying do it in Slack, but I just watched when I first set it up, I watched a four-hour video about how to set it up, and the guy said to use Discord, so I was like, all right, I'm just gonna use it. So that's how I set it up, and um that's where I control it out of. And then also Telegram has been amazing for just when I'm out and about and I just want to send a quick voice message uh through. But to be able to containerize the agent uh from a security level and then also just giving it all its verbatim like folders, like you think about like Discord is like set up just like a folder, like I'll give you a great analogy. So when you're running a local, like instead of pushing to like the cloud, like GitHub or anything of that nature, like these folders right here that I have inside of um this uh you know, VS Code Visual Studio. I have all these folders here. Now I can use this the exact same way inside of Cloud Desktop, right? I could use or Cloud Code Desktop, I could use it the same exact way. So these folders are this the same across the board, but how do I see the how do I visualize what I'm seeing, right? I could go into here, I could go to workspace, and I could go into here and I could find my workspace folder, and I open up my workspace folder, and inside my workspace folder, there's finds all these files, or I could organize all these files right here and visually be able to have consistent memory across all of my business inside of one single chat window, no matter where that is. So I structure my folder the same way I structure my Discord, I structure my Slack and the same way I structure my Discord. So when I'm talking to the agent, like I say refer to the specific folder. So it it's it's everything in my head is like all about like folder and architecture of like I think like if you're gonna get into this game, like you really have to understand like the fundamentals of like what is a markdown file versus text file, how to, you know, like this context and D file, like you're giving it the context, like you're giving it um who you are, what your company does, who who's on your team, how many employees do you have, what does each employee do? And that output is so different than going to Claude and just asking a blatant question because it's not going to refer to everything that's in your folder first. And so just being able to visualize that data is like huge, and you have to be able to like have some sort of like technical and or teaching awareness of of how your folder structure is to be able to operate any of these models the correct way. So that's my take on it.

SPEAKER_01

No, I love the breakdown, and I've never uh thought about the analogy of how Discord is set up uh to how like the workspace files are set up. It's perfect, it's exactly the same uh when you look at that and um and organization and making sure that you're giving your agents defined context and actually you know prompting them right and telling them what to do, they will do the work and the output that you're looking for. So rewind a little bit. How did you even get started? Like, what's your background on all of this? Uh, do you have a technical nature? You mentioned previously that you were in solar remote sales as well. Like, tell us a little bit more about your journey because a lot of people are also just starting out on their journey and would want to be where you are today. So, how did you get started in all of this?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, for sure. I think if I could just say in in in one word, is just always always be a student. I didn't go to school um for any of this. Uh, during school, I was actually kind of a um a bad kid, and I also had to start working from a young age because my um my father passed when I was like very young, and it's not like too sentimental or anything like that, but I always was like the father figure of the house. I have like a little brother, and then my mom had to take care of her. And uh at the end of the day, I had to start working at a very young age, and I've always just been so obsessed with technology. I remember we lived on this farm out in the middle of nowhere, and we would go shop at Goodwill because we were broke, and Goodwill is like the donation store of like America, like it's like the massive like donation store, right? So we go shop there and they have an electronic section, and I'd never buy clothes, but I'd always find myself like in the in the electronics section. I don't know why. I was just obsessed with it, right? So I do know what a Wi-Fi router is, like where you store like your you have like your Wi-Fi. Um, so the Wi-Fi box. So it's called a router, right? So I I bought a router. We didn't have Wi-Fi at our our farmhouse at our neighbors did that were about like I don't know, three quarters of of a mile like like across from us. You could still see them, but they they're like pretty far. And so I ended up finding a YouTube video of how to connect your router to a direct TV like satellite that was on the house that was no longer in use to capture the signal from my neighbor's Wi-Fi to be able to get Wi-Fi out of our house. And so, like, maybe don't indict me like if the FBI is watching or anything like that, but like um, but like I've just been obsessed with that. I was like, I I would buy a phone and like the old Android, and I would take them apart and look at the motherboard and I'd break stuff. I've just been like always just crazy like that. So anyway, that that was me. But to further no one hacking into your name is Wi-Fi. Stupid, but no, it's like it was uh it was at one point that I noticed that like okay, like I'm a little bit obsessed with this stuff. Um, but anyway, later on down the road, end up uh starting a web design company around um 20 2018. I was like 15 years old, hired my first VA overseas in Pakistan. And you were 15. Yeah, I found Fiverr and I uh this I I worked at this bike shop and they wanted a a website, and um the VA, I thought he was like the smartest guy in the world because he could build a website, and I was like, oh my gosh, like you're crazy, like you you're so smart, like you gotta teach me. And so like I'm like, I'm not learning this crap, this is like too much, but um anyway, just ended up learning it month after month, and um then that VA worked for me for six years and then got greedy and I fired him. But anyway, so I started a webs design company, and then I was thinking about going to barber school, like right after I hit high school. And uh my barber at the time told me he said, Hey, my brother's in solar, and um he owns a solar company out in Arizona, and you should they're making crazy commissions, like $20,000 a month, $5,000 per sale. I'm like, that's crazy. I mean, that's that's gotta be a scam. And then one of my buddies who had just gotten out of jail like crazy, is like he was not I was not surrounded around good people at all during during school. He calls me out of the blue and like, hey, like I just got out, I got this new job. Um, I'm like, what is it? And he's like, solar. And I just got it was like the next day after I talked to my barber about getting into solar, and I'm like, no way. He's like, yeah, I just made $7,000 in a week. And I was like, no way, send me like your pay stub, like send me your send me your check. And he did. He sent me his bank statement, it showed me, and I'm like, all right, packed all my bags, and I and I drove out to Arizona and uh from there just started knocking doors and um it sucked for three months, you know. Like my car didn't have AC. We're in the Arizona heat. And I mean, it's it's just like not like a start from start from rich parents like story at all. It's just like it's always been a grind, it still is a grind. I still stress over making sure that families are fed, like my workers, my coworkers, just it's all about just putting people before you. So if I could give one message to anybody that's listening, is like care about people you're like above yourself, like more than maybe even your own self at a specific time, and just just really care that you know you have their best interest at heart. And I mean, you'll go far. I mean, treat others how you want to be treated. It's like the golden rule, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

I love that and incredible journey. And the main takeaway from that is like you're constantly pushing yourself, seeking new opportunities, and uh making the most of the situation. So, how did you go from selling solar to your jump into AI?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, ma'am. Um, every solar company that I went to, I got really good at recruiting and bringing volume, like sales volume to the company. But as soon as I bring the sales volume, their operations would crush. So, what I mean by that is like you bring sales and it's construction. So there's so many moving pieces. You have to get a hold of the electric company, you have to get approval for this, you have to keep the customer edified or communicated with, or you sign the docs. It's not that you walk out of the house with a $10,000 check. You have to nurture it, build the relationship. I mean, these are $50,000 to $100,000 systems that you're putting on people's houses, selling them on a single monthly payment, making them take out a loan and pay a steady monthly cost for electricity for the rest of their life when they don't even know if they're gonna live that long or be in the house that long. Like that's a crazy psychology of being able to realize that that's what we did. And um I still believe in it. Like I still believe the solar no one can convince me that it's better than paying the electric company. Like I just truly truly believe that it's just a matter of what company you go to. But anyway, I bring the sales volume then their operations would crush. So I started becoming like obsessed with learning every aspect of the business. And I think that's just like where I'm saying like just never stop absorbing like always be a sponge. Never think that you know it all because you could get really good at one position in a job but then come to find out there's all these other pieces. So I started learning okay how does that happen? Okay, why are you doing it like that? Oh it's just because that's how we've done it for XYZ years. Okay, what software can do that? Then you know Chat GPT comes out and I can like research faster than people and I'm thinking I'm like better than them. And anyway, all in all just get obsessed with operations and then boom what's next? Marketing. Oh wait I don't have to knock doors anymore I can just go put up an ad and you know boom customers are now coming to you. So then it it just is a it solar is a the amazing way to learn every aspect of a business from delivery and fulfillment to sales to marketing to operations it's called FOSM. I had this guy named Sam teach me it's called every business runs runs off of the analogy FOSM finance, operations, sales and marketing that's it so if you and they have to have all four of those and when you realize that every business ends up being the same no matter if you're a chiropractor or dentist or um you know solar company or marketing agency they all run off of that same philosophy. So you have to be able to attach yourself to every single one of those to be a successful business or person inside of the business. And uh so yeah that's I just started getting really into operations really into marketing and just became obsessed with it and realized that people would pay me a lot to generate them leads and grew my sales team provided them all their own leads then other types of industries started reaching out then we had Rizdial become a baby and then it just you know took off from there.

SPEAKER_01

So that's really cool and and you're right like every aspect of like the whole entire business can have AI embedded into it to make it more efficient. It's not gonna do magic for people but it is able to do things more efficiently 24-7 uh and actually it was a person who is developing a voice agent as well and they are doing a voice agent that is uh chasing up people in America for um over like they haven't paid their tax so what the system does is that they will say like I you haven't paid your tax and you got like $50,000 outstanding the AI will send you a message but hey James I hear that your tax is overdue do you want me to like give you a call and chat about it then you'll reply you say yes and then the AI will call call you up and value hey James and ask you some like pre-qualifying questions and then will determine whether you are fit to be transferred to a human um agent to actually talk about it or if like your tax bill isn't actually worth like worth their time. And what they're now finding is that they've now made two and a half million AI automated phone calls and this service used to be done by humans and they're now getting more conversion out of the AI agents than they are of the human sales. So like that just goes to show like how like easy AI can be like implemented but then also refined to actually become better than the existing processes. If you get enough data in an A B test like you like what you're entirely doing you just showed us the the breakdown of your A B, your whole alphabet testing you're not just doing A B testing you're doing whole alphabet testing which is which is fantastic. From a poor family and now an entrepreneur leading the way in AI voice generation for every industry in America how would you suggest for them to start if they aren't AI native aren't sales savvy don't know anything about marketing to really get their first $1,000? First $1,000 yeah like reoccurring or just like collected let's go both I mean yeah reoccurring that's more valuable actually but yeah I guess they can get their first 1000 and then make it reoccurring. There we go.

SPEAKER_02

Sure okay works for me works for me I would obviously be a student like anyone's gonna tell you but I'm gonna give them a very very actionable steps you can easily cold call okay you need to learn how you need to learn sales that's the number one thing learn sales be obsessed with it because the only two things that are going to matter in this world once everything becomes automated is how good you are at marketing and how good you are at persuasion and talking with people. So number one do that okay secondly after you not only you think that you're a good salesperson but people around you think you're a good salesperson and you've gained experience okay go go be a salesperson first. For a company there's many many sales positions out there you will get a hired and you got to find one that you feel like can advance you and actually teach you and you're actually going to learn from them. Okay. Then once you understand the the the sciences of sales go ahead and start learning AI if you really want to dive into the space so chances are you already know AI a little bit and but you're not fully an expert yet so during that sales um journey of yours while you're learning sales you need to take that money and invest it in as much education for AI as you possibly can okay then you're gonna pick an industry one niche one one industry okay so if that's chiropractors or dentist then that's fine. Okay then you're gonna take that dental practice or let's just go with that as an industry and you're going to go to these practice owners you're gonna scrape use Appify or whatever scrape all the dental practices and you're going to persuade and gain the trust of them to be their AI consultant not selling them a product or service but selling them on the future that they need somebody in their company that can be AI first in bringing ideas tools and resources to their disposal and go ahead and charge them a thousand dollars or do it for free for the first couple to like I'm I'm big on free work. Like I always had never had a bad time with doing free work because I just learned lessons from it. Maybe you won't make any money but at the end of the day like during that sales when you're learning those sales skills and you're investing part of your investment needs to be doing that free work because that's where you're gonna get the experience and you're gonna say hey I want to try this for you. If it works out we'll we'll negotiate something after 30 days 60 days once I get you a result and this is exactly what I'm gonna do for you. Then once you have their trust and you've built yourself a track record in the space you can now go and say hey uh I saw Grant Cardone talk about it, you know, $8,300 a month in USD okay times 10 is $83,000 a month $83,000 a month times $12 is a million dollars a year. Okay so if you want to get to a million dollars a year as fast as humanly possible stack up 10 clients at $8300 a year in a specific niche specific industry and be their AI go-to guy or gal girl whatever you want to say and they you're you're their go-to consultant and you're you're bringing AI you're making them an AI first company AI first companies are going to win I love that flywheel and it comes down you said starting with education finding somebody and then passing on that education as the consulting advisor so it's like everything starts with you know starting to learn so what is your I want some source from you um what is your like tech stack?

SPEAKER_01

Wait what do you use for text video image coding like do you you know there's different tools and models that are specific that you better or more advanced in different areas like break down your tech stack just like top to bottom just your favorite models I know that you're probably always testing and trying new things to you know stay on the very front edge of like development but like what are your what are your favorites?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah I am it's a simple question but it's also like the like you said like the models are obviously some are better at other things than that the than others I've I love uh so you wanted me to break down models and text or text because I feel like it's too totally uh just like like generally like like what do you use is it nano banana for image or like what do you use for coding is it clawed like just like in the more general sense just to point people in a direction if they were looking to to start like script generation or you know what I mean? Sure yeah no the best by far like to house your your I'm gonna go with Claude for coding 100% like 4.6 can't beat it right now best model for coding right now if you're watching the video. Secondly is going to be your like orchestration layer right because if you think about uh models like you need a harness like like open clause just a harness for chat GPT or whatever model that you're having in it right so um the harness and like the orchestrator agent that you need like you could use cursor or vs code to control these you know models and I use Visual Studio I used to use cursor but for some reason I just like when I found out that they are built on top of Visual Studio which is like the the goat of the um you know IDEs like uh like code editors and so what I decided was I'm gonna go all in on Visual Studio so that's like my orchestration layer for Claude to run Claude out of and I have all my agents and my folders out of that and then uh GPT is great for image generation their spelling is on point. I've I'm seeing Jim and I make a lot more mistakes on spelling errors than ChatGPT right now especially on like text creatives. So I've surprisingly GPT is is really pulled through on on uh text to image generation um then we use Rizdial which uh the best model that I've found right now you know is like 5.2 uh GPT 5.2 has been amazing for voice and uh tool calling okay in voice AI you have to your agent is nothing if it can't make tool calls such as triggering an SMS like a text message or triggering a payment link so I use 5.2 for that it's just been a really stable uh old faithful model for us that's been able to you know tool call um so that's as far as like models goes like that's like kind of like my day to day I use cloud I use uh the browser chat gpt browser uh what what's the browser called I haven't used the browser I use perplexity browser and just recently just switched across onto Cloud Computer uh testing that out at the moment but I haven't used the chat GPT browser.

SPEAKER_01

Atlas you find it good Atlas it is too you're right yeah I think they're all quite similar.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. I haven't tried Perplexity computer yeah and I also like Comet that's uh their browser agent as well it's quite fun um okay I used to use uh it and then when I realized when I okay then then Atlas came out with ChatGPT right and I saw I switched uh the the transfer from Chrome to perplexity browser sucked I had none of my bookmarks or anything but when I did it with Atlas it was like everything transferred over perfectly so that was my only take on it and I just haven't gone away from it I haven't had any issues and so that's like the browser so I'm a chat GPT user and then um as far as tech stack goes like we use GoHigh level in in our agency for like just automations. We use we we have partnerships with many like VoIP companies like VOIP and voiceover internet providers. Uh most common and prominent in the space is called Twilio um most because it's a worldwide company I mean most countries support it um there's just different regulations for different countries uh but we also have partnerships with with many upstream carriers from there that we have way better rates with so we're we're carrier agnostic meaning people can bring their own carriers to the table um same thing with like deep grammar 11 labs or text to speech TTS stt models like speech to text text to speech so uh we're model agnostic um but that's pretty much my stack is Riz dial cloud code for coding my dev team uses cursor um that's what pretty much we've built our whole platform I mean they weren't actually coding with AI when we started the development of RizDial like they're maybe using chat GP to help them like cross check code but like our code is like ancient like dinosaur code and um it sometimes proves to be a little bit more stable than than AI code at some point so we kept running in that model where all in all it's uh that's pretty much the the the stack uh that that I'm running um I could I I use Slack I love Slack I'll sell anybody on using Slack over any other communication platform for business just because of this feature. Okay I hate cut up Slack. Yeah yeah yeah okay yeah what what what do we what like to describe what what why how why is like like superior yeah tell us I only I only like it because if you say Salesforce bought Slack and the the founder along like you know even like a year ago he said that every application is going to be controlled by a chat interface. So MCPs right model context protocol. So I think they're really leading the race in like open source communication and being able to like you know integrate with all these other applications to be able to chat through just a channel to be able to have all the orchestration layer of your agents that's one number one reason you know and Salesforce is a massive company so I think like if they have buy-in on Slack like it's gonna go places not necessarily you could bat me in the comments if you don't believe that secondly um it's just uh about the ability to be able to catch up fast if on something there's a little feature called catch up and you don't have to go through all your channels you can just see what's happening. But now hey guess what AI can do that for you now so I guess you don't even really need to go to Slack anymore. Just get a synopsis at the end of the day and tell your AI agent go respond on your behalf, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah exactly those when you're like you come back and there's like 50 group messages and you're like whoa what has everybody been talking about AI just like condenses that you A B C D this is what you got and um I love it. Anyway thank you so much for uh dropping all of that uh alpha I mean and so much sauce and everything that you've said today has been super interesting. I've learned some stuff and it's been awesome to for you to share your journey and inspire others because there's so many people uh who would want to be literally where you are and growing in AI. And this is one question which I am asking all of my guests as a closing question. Now so AI is obviously here here to stay and we're building in it both of us are and it can do a lot of things. You've just today we've rattled off so many different uh applications where AI can be implemented personally and professionally so if AI can do so much in the world for us today like what is one thing that you hope that AI never takes away from us?

SPEAKER_02

AI doesn't have feelings and human and connection right and that's just like the number one thing is like it can't it doesn't have a story. Like it doesn't have its own story of who who it is. It doesn't have like a sound vibration so it's um to me it it it's it's that level of it that it I I know it it it will never replace because it it it doesn't have feelings. So um you don't and it doesn't have its own story. Its story is that it got built right and that's it.

SPEAKER_00

The story is what you tell it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah so you know the the who you are and the the what you are of of yourself it can never take away and um that's why I just think like investing always being a sponge investing in your knowledge you know your relationships your real human relationships like really really value those because you know AI can't take it away so yeah that's that's that's what I can say to that question.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. And to wrap it up where can people get in contact with you obviously we'll pop all of your details in in the description notes but uh just verbally like what's the best way to reach out to you or like you know start to have a conversation or just follow along on your journey your Instagram handles or where do you hang out mostly or you know yeah AI Guy Official you can hit it on the gram DM me and I'll respond because I've I don't have like huge following so I'm just like I go in there maybe once or twice a day at the end of the night and Doom Scroll so I always respond to people so I'd love to connect with anybody who wants to connect and be a value and service to them.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah that's that's the best place to reach me.

SPEAKER_01

Cool. Well thank you so much and um it's been fun talking and uh I yeah hope that people can be inspired by your journey. Uh they'll definitely learn some source from everything and probably listen to it once and twice and take notes the second time. So yeah thank you so much. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Kara. Appreciate you