From Dropping Out of Uni, to CMO and 7-figure Founder, with Alessio Pieroni

Alessio Pieroni is the Founder and CEO of Scale for Impact, a marketing agency for online course creators. But he wasn’t born an entrepreneur.

This episode is about the shape of an unconventional path with at least 3 major “Is It Crazy?” moments. 

In the conversation we cover several questions that most high performers avoid: 

• What is my frustration for the current situation trying to tell me?
• What if the role I worked so hard to earn is not the destination, but just a stepping stone?
• Is it too late to change?

Want to follow Alessio's work or reach out directly? Find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alessio-pieroni/ 

If this conversation sparked something and you're ready to explore your own crazy idea with expert guidance and a community who gets it, go to https://humancareers.com/podcast and join our next free Turning Point Lab.

Transcript

0:07

You're listening to the Easy Crazy Podcast, the show where we explore the crazy ideas turning to career and life success. Every episode, I bring you different guests from around the world, an entrepreneur, a leader, someone who has inspired me to show you how diverse careers can be and to help you build a career on your own terms. I'm your host, Eleonora, and today for our second episode, I sit with Alessio Pieroni. Alessio is now the founder and CEO of Scale for Impact, a seven-figure digital marketing agency for coaches and course creators. But he didn't start his career as an entrepreneur. As you will hear, he shares his three easy crazy moments, not just one, and we trace his full journey from dropping out of university, making an unexpected move to Asia, and these moves made him land the job at Apple. But then the story didn't end here. He found his own genius in marketing, becoming the CMO of Mindvalley, the pioneering personal development company. And the surprises continued. The journey was shaped step by step, and I'm sure you will relate to many of his doubts and frustrations because that's where we go as well. How did you find this path? Tune in to find out. Let's dive in. Ciao Alena. Ciao Alele. Super excited to be here. Super happy for you to start this journey and happy to be the first guest. Yeah, it is such an honor because you are not just someone that I admire for your career. You are a friend, you've been a colleague. One of the reasons that I rocked my career many years ago. So it felt just natural to have you. You have so many inspiring stories to share about your career and um yeah, so many things that I want to unpack. But let me introduce you first. So welcome, Alessio, here on the show. He is the founder of Scale for Impact, a seven-figure marketing agency for coaches, courses, creators, people who really want to have an impact with their experience, with their wisdom, and you're gonna tell us more about it. But what is interesting about your journey is that you didn't always do marketing, you didn't always own your own company. So there's many transitions that we're going to explore, and let's see where this conversation takes us.

Alessio & his career now

3:07

So yeah, we're here to explore the human behind all these amazing things. Are you ready? I'm very ready. This has been uh a fun journey, and I hope that people will have fun listening to it. For sure. So let's start with right now. So tell us about Scale for Impact and what do you love about your career now? So, Scale for Impact is a marketing agency for course creators, as you mentioned, and we do work with some of the biggest names in the industry from like I don't know, Tony Robbins, Mind Valley, Marisa Pierre, like some of the biggest names in the industry. And what we do is that we build finance and advertising for uh those creators. Uh, basically, we are the megaphone for their wisdom. We want to make sure that we can take it to all different levels, so we have them take their impact and we scale it. That's why Skillful Impact. Uh, we are an agency that is fully remote. We have about 20 people in the team right now from I think 14 different countries. Last time we uh counted. So it's super exciting, super fun. And I would say that for me personally, it's been the best way to start my entrepreneurial journey. Uh, it's been a very easy transition from the job I was doing before to the company I've right now, and it's been something I always wanted to do in my life, and I'm very glad I did that jump. Yeah. Okay, okay. And because you didn't start your life and your career as an entrepreneur, um so one of the things, of course, and one of the places we worked together was in Mine Valley, where you really moved up through the ranks uh until last you were chief marketing officer. And I want to hear about one thing. What was your easy crazy moment, the nudge or the breaking point that made you think, you know what? I'm going solo. Yeah. You know, the experience in Man Bali was magical when you've been in that environment, so you know exactly what can happen there, what are all the things that are there. And I would

The CMO moment — and why he left

5:21

say that for me the experience was incredible because I started literally as the most junior person in the company, and almost three years later I was the chief marketing officer. And then, you know, when you start that role, you're like, oh my god, can I do that? I I remember I was 29 when I was CMO. I was like, can I do that? Am I good enough? And then after a while, I'm like, oh, I'm actually good at that. And I remember we grew from about 25 to 75 million in the two years I was CMO. Um, and I think that the more I was going on, the more I felt really confident about my skills, what I could do, the impact I could bring, not just to my body, but to the rest of the world. And while this was happening, I remembered that we had a few months before I decided to leave, we had a very big conversation with Vision, which was the which is uh the founder of the company and the CEO. And uh uh and I remember the vision had a very clear vision. The vision was let's stop focusing so much on online education, let's focus a lot more on community and offline experiences because that's all my heart. Let's do more events, let's do a lot more offline community, and let's not focus a lot on online. And it was crazy to me because it's like that's all that is bringing money here. I was like, the entire growth area, I mean, the entire growth I see that we can achieve it's happening because of uh online education, and I really felt strongly that we needed to go in that direction. One felt very strongly that we needed to go in the other direction, and we're both very opinionated, and I must say that in five years together that was probably the only fight we had. Um but I remember that after that conversation, I went back home and I started thinking a lot around that conversation, and I was really thinking, how is happening that I'm so concerned about this? And uh and then I stopped for a second, I was like, wait a second, there is a founder and a CEO of an incredible company that works so hard to bring the company there, and he has a vision, and I have a very opposite vision than him, and I'm in CMO, so I like my role is to take his vision and transform it into marketing, and I want to do something that's completely different. And I was like, Well, if this vision is so strong for me, maybe I should go ahead and do it myself. That was really the question that I started asking, and at the same time it was like, and maybe for him it's better that he has a CMO that believes in his vision and that can actually help him in take this vision and bring it forward. So it really felt at the moment that okay, you know what, it really makes sense that we should that I should stop being the CMO of Man Bali, and uh maybe I should be the one that actually took this vision forward and started doing something of my own. Uh and it became very clear at that point that that was what I needed to do. Okay, so what I'm hearing is it was a like a disagreement, a moment where you felt more triggered, and that was maybe frustration, and and instead of just being upset at someone, you reverted the question to yourself and feel like what is this strong feeling trying to tell about me and what can I do about it? Yeah, and it's interesting because going back to the is it crazy moment, for me it was like, Well, is it crazy that I want to start an online education company or work with online education uh businesses on my own? And I remember I look at my girlfriend back then, my wife now, and I told her, I really think about that. And she was like, Yes, but you're angry, you probably shouldn't take a decision right now. She was right, she was right. I basically told them, let's do this, let's take three weeks off on Christmas. I have a lot of holidays that I never used. Let's take three full weeks off, and let me take proper time to really think this through. And the more I was thinking through, the more this is it crazy. It was like, it's crazy if you don't do it. It's a nice switch, it's a it only happened. Come on, and I I was really seeing myself really fired up about thinking, oh my god, and I could do this and I could do that, and this would be amazing. And that was beautiful because it was really a moment in which I thought, okay, I really have that fire for this vision, and uh it's really crazy not to do anything with that. Yeah. I love how you flipped the question and the the perspective into is it's crazy if I don't do it. And the cool thing is that you took time, which is something that not everybody does,

Starting a business in the first week of COVID

10:26

or not everybody thinks of doing, but you let it sit, and then this kind of little spark became a big fire until you was like, okay, this is my next thing, I gotta try. And the time was right, and everything you did up to that moment really brought you like you could bring everything together and and look how successful it was. So definitely now you can say looking back, it was it would have been crazy not to do it, even if you didn't have the certainty back then. Let me let me actually share something else because it gets crazier than this, right? Uh-huh. Because the the part of the story that you didn't say is that this entire thing happened and it was like November, December 2019. I go back in Malaysia where the company was, and then in January 2019 I resign, and Vision asked me, Hey, can you just stay you know till March 2020 and then believe? I'm like, yeah, sure, sure, no problem. So I do that, and then my last day in office is like the first week of COVID. It's like Yeah, I'm already laughing. The world, the whole world just went crazy in between. And now it's like, okay, okay, now it's really crazy. I left the company in the middle of a pandemic, and back then we didn't know is the world gonna end in two weeks, or uh is this just a fluke? What's happening? Uh and I was like, okay, starting a business in that specific moment was also something very fun because I I I do remember I was like the moment I closed the last Zoom call, I was like, what the hell did I do exactly? I had a great job, a great position, uh something pretty safe in a very unsafe moment of the world, and that's the moment in which I decided to uh start a company. Uh I was locked down in Malaysia, I couldn't even open legally the company. I remember I was like, Wait, wait a second, how do I open a company now that everything is closed? And I remember this e residence in Estonia, let me open it there because it's the only place in the world that I can open it right now. Uh it was really, really crazy, but at the same time, it really became a blessing in disguise for me because uh obviously with COVID, everyone went online. So many more companies needed online education help, and that was a fantastic kickstart of my business. Uh but uh I do remember actually this was a tuition that he told me in mid-February, it's like, look, these things look like it's getting a lot more serious. You want to stay in the company? And I told him, no, no, don't worry. I'll I'll so it gets even crazier. And you know, you know, sometimes there are people that will say, you should have listened to universe. Universe told you bring the biggest pandemic when you want to start the business, you probably should spend the company. Or on the other hand, I could say, well, universe brought COVID so that my business could be stronger when I started, right? So it's uh it's it's a different way to look at uh things, right? It looks like with everything, you can always look at something and take it as a reason not to do things,

Crazy move 2 — leaving Apple for Malaysia

13:37

and instead you're like, no, I'm gonna do it anyway. The decision is taken, it's gonna work for me, and actually was the biggest opportunity for you. So it kind of reminds me, you know, of the saying if you want to go on a trip, don't look at the clouds because we're always if you're looking for excuses not to do something, we're always going to you know hold back, and you didn't. But I want to go back a few more years, Ale, because I know from your experience that this was not the only crazy pivot, but you had other two crazy moments. So can you expand on that? Can you tell those stories? Uh, just for everyone listening, I'm not a crazy guy, right? Just I'm almost a normal person, but yeah, I took some crazy decision in my life. So uh before joining my bali uh and starting my marketing journey, and let me say started completely from scratch because I didn't know anything about marketing. Uh I was actually a recruiter in Apple. I used to work in London and uh it was uh my dream company. I think Apple back then that was 2013, 2014, was really just a few years after C Jobs died, uh, when everything was just like, you know, was I think we just launched the Apple Watch while I was there. So it was really a moment where the company was growing, it was the number one undisputed company in the world. And then working there, working in London, working in Apple, being part of that entire movement was was incredible. It was one of those once-in-a-lifetime experience that I'm extremely glad I lived and I went through. And unfortunately, when you work for such a big brand and you look at this brand from outside, you have a perception, and then once you go inside, you have another. And uh and sometimes it's interesting because the external perception and internal perception start to change a little bit, and you understand how certain things work and how certain things work very well for the product they do, but doesn't work very well for the person I am and how I want to work, right? So let me give you a typical example. Like in Apple, um, confidentiality is one of the biggest values in Apple. Like you all know that Apple keeps their iPhone private till the last minutes of uh their launch and review, even if the biggest change that they do is that is slightly faster. Uh but the the entire thing happens everywhere in the company. So even if you are recruiting for a position, that position, no one can know about that position, and it creates a lot of complication and thing and mistrust in the team. And I really didn't like that environment at all, right? So something that maybe I would love as a consumer because I love the launches, I didn't like as working there, right? Interesting perspective. And so it's interesting that you know you might love something so much as a consumer, that doesn't mean that you love it so much as a workplace. Uh and more than that, I entered in Apple with the idea of like, let me enter. I even if you want me to clean the floor, I'll clean the floor and I'll be happy. Turns out it doesn't work like that. I I was a recruiter, and uh I wasn't bad, but I definitely hated the job. I hated the job. I was sometime doing I don't know, 20 interviews in a day for candidates. Uh some other time I was serious screening for like eight hours a day or something like that. It was just like something that I was like, oh my god, why did I go to university? Why did I study so much? Why did I work in India? Why did I do so many things to do this? It's just so simple as a job, right? Um, but that was really a very interesting thing because I was looking at this experience and I was like, that's clearly not what happiness looked like. I'm very clear that I'm extremely unhappy in this job. And but still, I was in what I was calling the golden prison. It was perfect, like the little kid from a small town in Italy that at 25 works in the center of London in the number one company in the world with a very good salary and stuff. Um and everyone is like, I'm I'm the proud of my mom and this kind of stuff. I'm completely unhappy myself. And and for a while I was like, okay, uh definitely there's something wrong with me. Because everyone else, whenever I tell them what I do, they're just like that's my dream job. So for sure I just need to figure it out. Uh, and then I remembered that I one day my manager comes and he tells me, Alessio, we've been creating this position, it's a position where we need an Italian person, and you are the person I want for this position, so you'll be basically the only candidate here, just apply and you'll get this job. And I was like, oh my goodness, that's so cool, they really believe in me. That's a promotion, that's a much better contract, I can take things to the next level, let's do it. And then I start going through the process, I start doing the interviews, and then another person working for Apple told me, Alessia, look, I've heard that actually this position was promised to someone else. I used to work for Apple years ago, and it's kind of a fake process. And I was like, okay, then why would my manager tell me that this position is for me? It doesn't make any sense. Uh and it turns out that this other person was right, the position was for this other person. Great guy, by the way. Um but at the same time, it's like, why did they promise to me then? And I felt so lost in this because I wasn't epic, I was promised a position, I was working so hard, and then in the end I was like, why am I doing this? And like, why is there so many politics and stuff or something that should be so simple? And I just felt okay, this is not the place, this is not my story. I will not become the director of the chart of Apple in my life. I know that I wouldn't be happy with that, so I need to find something else. That was really like, and maybe because I was so unhappy, I was like, okay, I want to find anything that will bring me this happiness. That that was really the the goal for me. And and everything was on the table. I remember I started to apply for a lot of different jobs in London because I love London. Uh, but then again, nothing was really fitting with what I really wanted. And I was like, you know what, more than finding a job in London, I really need to find myself. Because the reality is that I don't really know what I like. Uh, I remember that I read an article, and the article was saying uh something about product management, and I'm saying, yeah, I want to do product management. I was like, and I was applying for a product management job, and I had no tech experience, no nothing. I was completely lost of what I wanted to do. And then I was like, okay, I need to figure out something else. And that's where I remember that back in university I was in a conference in Russia, and then it was one speaker, which was Vision,

Crazy move 1 — uni drop out for €200/month

21:05

that spoke at that conference, and I didn't even remember what he spoke about, but I remembered that at the end of the speech I say one day I want to work for this guy. The founder of Mind Palay. The founder of Mind Pali, yes. And uh and I was like, you know what? What is this company? Malaysia. Okay, where is Malaysia? Went on the map, oh that's pretty far away. Let's do it. Uh I applied just like that, out of the blue, and I took like an 80% pay cut to go from Apple. That's significant. And I remember that when they gave me the offer, I tried to negotiate a bit when they told me, sorry, we don't have a lot of money, we can negotiate, we cannot negotiate. And then I printed the contract, and then I kept it for one day on my desk. And I was I was like, Am I really doing like that? Was really crazy moment. I'm like, this is like I'm getting such a Pick my car to go on the other side of the wall to the job was project manager, that means everything and nothing. I was like, I don't even know what I'm gonna do. I'm like, I don't know, this sounds crazy. But then again, the the God instinct was really telling me that that was the thing I needed to do. And I knew that that company, that flexibility, that environment would have allowed me to figure out what I was and what I wanted. And it turns out that project management in my valley meant marketing and launching products, and uh and somehow that was a perfect fit for my skills, a lot better than what was recruited. And who knows if if I would have got that promotion back then, maybe I would still be in Apple and Happy, right? And maybe I would get some small bump here and there, and I will still be there in that prison. Um and and I'm glad that someone else that enjoys that position is there other than me, right? Yeah, yeah, what a shift. Like when you said probably if I would have gotten the promotion, I wouldn't even have looked for something different. And instead, it allowed you to really find the thing that you're most suited for. What a reframe. And and from what you were saying, I think there's a lot of points that could resonate in the people that are listening from the golden prison when a company it seems perfect on the outside, especially and have been there when your family are so proud because you're working for the company that everybody knows, it's so easy to explain others what you're doing, and then you're really thinking and leaving for an organization that no one knows of your circle, and for such little money, you think this is not rational. But the beauty of it, and I've seen it also over and over again in careers because this has been my bread and butter for more than 15 years. A lot of time the best outcomes come exactly from trusting this, I don't know, this inner knowing, this intuition that there's so much more in store for us that if we don't try, we will never know. And coming back to what you were saying before, I didn't invite you because you are a crazy guy. But we all have these moments when we have this dream, this vision of maybe I should go for it. And what it is, it sounds crazy in the moment, it doesn't make any rational sense, and yet you're here telling the story about that was actually the safest and best decision you could ever take. Completely, completely. It it's interesting because when you are in that is it's paralyzing, it's so difficult, it's like you really don't, and when you look back, you're just it's just the best decision I have taken in my life. And I'm so glad that in my 20s especially, I prioritize happiness over money. Like if I would have prioritized money or get some savings or this kind of stuff, I would have never taken that decision. But I always say, you know, even in my valley, I never negotiated a salary. Literally. And the main reason why is because I mean, to me, that wasn't really about making money, it was about ero I like I'm investing this time in learning this thing for myself so that then later I can do something that would make sense for me. And that's what I did now with my agency. And I don't care about how much money I was paid there, because even if I was paid penance, it's like fine, I learned so much from this that right now I can do what I need and what I want, and uh live the life I want and live wherever I want without the constriction of anything of that, and create this company that allows a lot of other people to actually live that kind of life. Yeah. Wow, that's beautiful. And what about the first moment, the first university transition? That was the really the spark that put everything in motion. So actually, me and Eleonora go way back. So in I think I was 21 or 23, we lived together in Milan, uh, working for this organization named Isaac, and we're managing the Italian chapter. It was like over a thousand students in 20 different cities, and me and Ele were part of this small team that was managing everything. Such a good time, so young and exposed to decision leadership, managing people, so it's truly like learning to swim while you're in the middle of the ocean. But at least we had cool friends to do it with. Because it's like, you know what, I need to take decisions bigger than myself, but I do it. And at the same time, that life is so different from the classic life that now 21, 22, 23 year old is living. Then going back to the normal world and then seeing how other people see you, it's very hurting. Like going to your first job after that experience of managing a thousand people, and then they ask you, can you print the copies of this? Can you do this simple stuff? Do you know how to use Excel? You're like, oh come on, like I always know how to do that, right? Um, and for me, I had that very big change and let's say slap in the face when I decided after that experience to go back to uni to finish my master's. And I have like about four or five exams left, and I was like, okay, I'll take six months, finish those exams, and then I'll go somewhere. And I do remember that I went for this exam, and this exam was the stupidest exam ever. I literally had the same exam in my bachelor's degree, and again for some reason in the master's degree. It was the same book, the same thing. And uh I come from a region in Italy that's very famous for kitchen appliances, and half of this book was about how the kitchen appliance industry works in my region. I was the most correct thing ever, and I'm like, why do I need to study kitchen appliances? I don't want to work in kitchen appliances, and uh and then I go to the exam and they ask me this book, and I obviously you know answer. And the professor says, No, you're not answering correctly. You need to answer exactly with the words that they said in the book. And I'm like, Why do you need that? Like in normal life, no one will ask me about the words in the book, they'll ask me about uh and the professor said, No, I'm sorry, you failed the exam. And I got so angry with that professor that I was like, oh come on, I did already the same exam twice, once before, once again, and they asked me the same question over and over again, and did you want me to learn by memory without literally any sense about kitchen appliances? I'm like, no, um, I can do a lot more than that. And I remembered that I say, I'm gonna apply for jobs, I'm gonna see whoever I get, whatever I like, and then I go from there. And because we were in this amazing organization, we had access to a lot of opportunities worldwide. And the job that I apply for, and that I actually get selected for, is a job in India as a journalist. Uh and starting salary 200 euros per month, per month, obviously. And I went to my mom and I told her, okay, I'm dropping out of uni. And she's like, Why? I don't like, I got a job, so I don't need anymore. Like, okay, great. What is the job? I like like a job that paying a lot of money, and I don't need uni. I'm like, in India, 200 euros. She must have felt I don't even, I cannot imagine. It wasn't that is a crazy moment, it was like, are you crazy moment? And I would say that it took a few days of convincing uh for me to uh to convince her about this, but it was such an important step of uh uh for the first time being able to be trusted with such an important decision and to go in the unknown fundamentally, but what I knew was the right experience for me at the moment. And I needed a strong experience, I needed the uh real-world experience. And funny enough, I never finished uni, I dropped out of my master. Um a year later, when I applied for Apple, I asked them why why did you ever select me for Apple? And they say, Well, we've never seen a 23-year-old that led a big organization like that and then lived in India for a year and had a crazy experience like that, and now want to work with us, you're a perfect profile for what we're looking for. Yeah, wow, mom, how about that? So if I would have never accepted that 200 euro job in India, I probably would have never, they would have never even seen my profile on the CV in Apple because they would have thought like, oh yeah, just another profile. What this was something that stood out,

What actually makes a leap work

31:35

something that was interesting. And so sometimes very crazy decisions between each other. They somehow connect in the future, and you're able to connect the dogs just looking backwards, right? And that's kind of yeah. Yes, good Steve Steve Jobs quote. I I love that concept, and and and I totally see that in career it in life, it's so so true. And and Alessio, I'm taking a couple of things from what you're saying that I want to um go deeper on. One is in all these moments, right? From university to the job nobody would expect in India, from Apple to moving to Malaysia for a smaller company, less money, then taking finally the leap to starting your own business. So many people have these ideas, these visions, these nudges and inspiration. But what is the difference? Is a lot of people end up not trusting it and not doing anything about it, and they let it slide. So, what made the difference for you to actually say yes? That's a very good question. I would say that like from the story, it looks like that whatever I decide goes well, and then I'm extremely lucky or smart, and it just works. Uh, but I've had hundreds of failures. I've started 20 side hustles while I was doing my different jobs that didn't bring me anywhere and didn't make any money, actually lost a lot of money on lots of things, but allow me to learn a lot of things, and then those things somehow help me out in the future. So, overall, what I would say is approaching the different choices also sometimes as a testing ground, and taking those big decisions of like completely jumping off and doing something completely different, uh, just when things become sort of very clear and safe. So, let me give you an example. When I left the company and I started my own business, one of the major things was also talking with a friend of mine that did that the year before, and uh he was able to get some consulting opportunities in the same space that allowed him to survive basically to get some money and pay his bills. And that was for me interesting because I was like, okay, cool, so I can start my own business and then get some consulting, and then this consulting pay for things, so I risk nothing, right? Okay, this sounds a very great deal. So let me start in this way and then let's go, right? Uh, and that is very interesting. Actually, this friend of mine told me this thing once, and it's like something that I always bring with me. It's like if everything goes wrong, what's the absolute worst thing that will happen in your life? And if that worst thing is your current reality, what would you actually do? And let me give an example. So I have zero money in my bank account, I need to move back with my parents, and uh, I need to beg my job to take me back, something like that, right? Um, so I think that a big part for me was speaking with uh Vishen, the CEO of my valley, and saying, hey, if this thing doesn't work, can I come back in six months? And I'm like, yeah, sure, I will be happy to have you back. I was like, okay, cool, that's safe. So I can try for six months, and then worst case scenario, I come back. Uh or go to a friend of yours that is a company and say, if I don't find anything in six months, would you hire me even at the minimum wage so that I can put some food on the table? Yeah, sure. Or talking to your parents and say, hey, if this thing doesn't work out, will you take me back home in six months? Or can I live with you for a couple of months while I get back on my feet? Uh, whatever it is, right? But it's like put yourself back in that worst decision and solve the thing from the worst decision, kind of saying, hey, you know, this thing might happen in three, six, twelve months from now. Would you be able to help me in that case? Yes. And then you understand, well, even the worst decision isn't that bad. Like always. No, and actually, this is what I see over and over in coaching, in supporting people in their transition and career changes, is that when we project the fear, it's always worst in theory. Because when we think about it, there are 2,000 things that can go wrong, and obviously it's too overwhelming to plan for everything. But what you did is a great exercise, actually, to pick what is really the worst thing, what is the one scenario that I would really, really be worried of, what would I do? And then you realize, well, I can get resourceful. I'm actually solving one reality instead of thousands of things can go wrong. And you realize I have plan A, B, C, and I just focus on those. But at least it gave you peace of mind to say, okay, well, I can give myself six months, I can give myself this time, let's just try. So, one thing you didn't say, but I heard from your story is one is you experimented a lot, so then you're always approached it with, well, I'll just try this. It doesn't have to work exactly as I'm thinking, but as I do this one thing, then I will see what's next. A little bit what your bit from Apple to a mind barley story was saying, I just want to find out what I like, and I cannot find it if I don't try something new. Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing that is exceptional about you, I think, is like removing the ego, so not being worried about oh, what if it's a step back or what if it's less money? It's always temporary, and you always look at what is the return on investment if I do something. Yeah, no one really cares about you.

The one marketing principle that matters

38:05

Like then this entire thing is just something ourselves, like, but no one really cares if a lesson works for Apple for Membali for a company and one I've heard of, right? Um, it it's a real you know thing for ourselves. And if right now for one year I try to open a gym and it doesn't work and I lose all my savings, I can still come back and ask to someone can I work in marketing for your company? I can still do it. But if I really feel that my passion is opening a gym, I can do it, right? It's like and and there's no one that will tell, oh my god, Alessio works in a gym. It's like it's it's it's it's okay, like people don't really care a lot about that, right? Yeah, yeah, that's probably what helps you to always stay curious, but also you're very humble because for all the things that you've done, um you you're always very approachable, you're always open to share your knowledge. It's not everybody that does it, and uh, I appreciate that. Um and and I want to ask you two more things. So, one specific about your digital marketing experience because I think a lot of the people that are listening will really admire, and and marketing is often seen like, oh, what is the the secret that I have to learn so finally my business can thrive? And here you are, growing brands in every country with working with so many great names in the industry. So, what is one thing that you've learned this year from your marketing experience and supporting all these incredible authors, generating millions? What is the one uh, or like what are the key principles or uh learnings that you think would be useful for people to know? To you know, from distinguish from the noise and all the shiny things. Uh, I'm gonna give you the least shiny thing I can give you about growing a business. Uh growing a business is the most boring thing ever. Like everyone tells you it's exciting, it's boring. Like growing a business is finding something that works and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. That's it. Everything else. And sometimes is I have a client of mine that found a specific format of Instagram reel that works for him, and he just repeat that format of Instagram reel over and over again. He does 10, 15, 20 reels a month. And it works. It works, he has 1.2 million followers on Instagram right now, and he created the entire business around that. Now, can you be very smart and create another 20 formats and stuff? Yes, and maybe some of that will work as well. But what actually makes the business grow is that format, and uh and that to me is is interesting because people don't understand it. Or, for example, in my value, we figure out the webinar format works, drive adds to that, and we grow. It's kind of that's it. And uh uh the number one thing I did when I became um uh the head of marketing there, it was canceling everything else, focus just on this way, and repeat, repeat, repeat. It was literally going even deeper on that craft that it was working and making it better and better and better, nothing else, and it's boring, it's not fun because you always want to, oh, let's try this, let's try that, so this person is doing this, this person is doing that. But once you find something that works, repeat. Till when you don't find something that works, experiment, and that's kind of it, and that's kind of it. And whenever something sticks, repeat, repeat, repeat. Don't go for shiny object syndrome, don't look at what other people are doing, focus a lot more on uh what works for you and just go for that. Oh, I could put it golden in my room, don't focus on what other people are doing. I think it's one of the most repeated conversations that I have in all my groups, but it's it's so great what you're sharing that like just make it simple. Even though I see that it doesn't necessarily have to be boring, because I think, especially nowadays, a lot of the entrepreneurs could appreciate having time to do other things instead of just being busy always for years and years testing a lot of new things. Enjoy also a business model that actually works. 100%, yeah. And and that's interesting. I call it boring because especially in my industry I work with creators, and creators are creative by definition, right? Um, and they want to create a lot of new things, but the ones that really become very good, they fall in love with creating the perfect craft for the thing that is working. Okay, so the mastery. So they don't look anymore at I don't want to create a webinar anymore, I want to create this other thing. They look at how can this webinar be better than a Netflix series so that everyone will want to watch it. Then there is an entire ward of fun that you can have inside that framework that works, right? Uh, but a lot of people will look at that and just feel, oh, another boring webinar. And some other people will look at that and find an entire universe inside that. So it just depends on how you approach it. But if you go deep in whatever it's working, if you go deep in that format of real that is working for your business, just Go right, and you'll find something that's really exciting. Yeah, and then I think this this concept is connected to what you were saying before. Like, people are not worried about you or not thinking about you, and I find it similar in a way that what we think people might need, or people always want to find new things about us. Well, actually, the what I'm hearing from you is that the people that really become great they are reliable, like they always deliver what you expect them to do, what you don't expect Tony Robbins or someone else to just do a new thing every week or every day. You go with them because you know what you're going to find. So just stick to the core. I'm glad that you brought this example of Tony because so many people come to me and say, Oh, I saw Tony Robbins doing this. Can you do the same for me? And a lot of time the answer I give them is like, but do you think you're like Tony Robbins exactly? Like, do you think that your business is at the stage where Tony Robbins is, and this is the right next step for you? Because I mean in the Running Location space, no one is at Tony Robbins level, right? And I see sometimes people that have an email list of 1,000 people and 500 followers on Instagram wanting to do something that Tony Robbins is doing, and I'm like, do you think that's your right next step? It's like clearly it's not. You need to build an audience, right? It is very important that you do understand not just what other people are doing, but how does this fit in relation to you? And maybe it makes a lot more sense to study what Tony Robbins did when you have 500 followers. Right. Right? What all the top people did when they were in your condition rather than what they are doing right now. That they are uh with millions of followers and everyone knows them, right? So it's like if right now I start a new product and I advertise it like Nike, it will never work, right? It's just like it's just not like that, right? It's you always need to take the different lessons that you want to take from that, but then adapt it to your real life, yeah. Well, Aleste, we could talk forever. I know I love having this conversation with you, I love business growth, but also mindful of uh and your time as well. I want to ask you one last thing. Who are you hoping could hear this conversation that we are having now? And what is really the one or two key messages that you want to make sure that goes through and can reach them? I really hope that the person that listened to this is someone that knows he wants to become he or she wants to become an entrepreneur, um, and is young.

What Alessio hopes will listen to this

46:54

Because if you look at social media, if you look at the people I was listening to, they were all telling me, you are 22, start a business. And I think that that's the worst advice that you can give a 22-year-old unless this person has a very clear idea of what they want to do with life. If I would have done my current marketing agency at 22, I would have been a disaster because I had no idea what I was doing. And I see right now a lot of people starting a marketing agency at 21 without having ever worked on marketing. And I'm like, why do you start a marketing agency if you don't know anything about marketing? You're supposed to be good at marketing to start a marketing agency, right? Um but what really works for me and what's really a very simple way to transition towards entrepreneurship is finding out what's your talent, what's something that you like. Do that by working very hard for some companies, learn so much on that, give your best, and then once you find that spark, once you find that thing, and want to feel confident that hey, you know what, I can do this on my own and have some good results, then that's a good moment to make the jump. And I feel that that is a very non-romanticized version of entrepreneurship, but it's probably the right one. And I mean, also in your case, it's been pretty similar, right? Uh, probably if you would have started helping people on making their career change at 21, you might have not been the best. But after years of working in incredible companies, you obviously had the best experience ever to help out everyone else, and and I think that that's that that's the game. It's like really don't rush towards starting your own business or making this big step. Like maybe uh I think I started my business at 32, but there are other people that start at 45, at 50, or at any time. It's like, look, you're mastering a craft, and once you feel that the craft is good enough to take it to the rest of the world, just go ahead and do it. It's just as simple as that. And and that's the game, that's the game that I would really suggest everyone to play. Uh, there is no deadline, you don't win an award if you make this money at 25 versus 30 or 35. No one cares again. It's it's just a matter of understanding that you're playing your own race, and in some cases it might be faster, in some cases it might be slower, and in both cases it's okay. Yeah, for sure. And I think what you're saying at any age, really, my hope in and in sharing this podcast is also that you will encourage more people to take any decision at any age, and also to realize that we often, I think the the objection that I hear the most often with, I don't know what to do because I'm not clear. Well, actually, just like in your example, the clarity arrived step by step. Like you couldn't have said in university, this is exactly the career plan that I'm going to do. And yet, even when I was working in corporate and in startup and I was in HR, most of the time we approach career like this. Show me your career plan, and then this is what you're gonna get. But a lot of time we just need to try something, we just need to go in the wrong direction to find or to take risks to find what actually works. And there's no deadline like, oh, by 30 I'll figure it out, by 40 we'll figure it out. So the sooner we realize that there isn't an ending like status, especially now in the age of AI, working careers are still gonna change so much. Yeah, absolutely. I I wanna say this thing because it makes so much fun. So if you look at my curriculum, my CV in my 20s, people were like, What the hell were you doing? Managing a youth NGO, journalist in India, HR in London in Apple, marketing in Malaysia. I'm like, what are you doing with your life? That's what a recruiter would say looking at my CV, right? And my answer is, yeah, I wasn't building my life for a CV, I was building my life for what I like to do. And if that meant uh starting back from an internship after three, four, five years of my career, because hey, you know what? I really want to find something I like, that's it, it's fine. Like my career plan was a zigzag, it was not really something that was ever a straight line, and uh and it's fine, it's completely fine. It shows it pays off, it doesn't have to be a straight line, and I'm so so glad and happy that you had this conversation and you decided to say yes and be the first guest. If people want to get in touch with you, and everybody should get in touch with you if they're not already, where can they find you? I think the easiest place is LinkedIn, that's where I'm most active. I publish some content and stuff, and so you can just search for me at Alessio Pieroni on LinkedIn and you'll find me. Yeah. Okay, thank you, Alessio. Thank you so much, Elephant. Been a pleasure. Bye. Thank you for listening, it truly means a lot. Before you go, if this conversation opened up something for you, I'd love to know what it is. Feel free to share it with me or on social media. This is how stories travel. If you enjoyed this episode, you're already part of this community, and this is how you can help us grow. You can leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you're listening from. You can follow the show or you can turn on the auto download so you never miss an episode. Any of it helps more than you know, because it helps other people find the stories when they need them the most. And it really does take just one of us acting on a crazy idea to change not only our life, but the lives of everyone around us. 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