Episode 76: The Why Behind Biblical Fasting

This week we dive into a topic that can be a little tricky for women: Fasting. Although today’s world often pushes this idea as a health and fitness discipline, it is also a spiritual discipline that many people use to draw closer to the Lord. While certainly not a requirement for Christ followers, fasting is a concept found throughout the Bible, both in the Old and New Testament. In this episode, Lisa and Ali unpack this often misunderstood and misused practice. Tune in to learn what Biblical fasting is, what it isn’t, the why behind it, and ways we can still live it out as believers.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hello, and welcome to the Her Salad Ground podcast. I'm Lisa Banama.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

And I'm Alicia Jakubek. Okay, listeners, I suppose it's a bit of a confession. Today is an episode we've been putting off for a while. Right, Lise?

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Yes. It was one of those topics that just keeps coming up and we just keep putting it to the bottom of the pile. I mean, I might way to sell it, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yes. I might yes, focus up. I might be dramatic when I say we've been putting it off for two seasons, but for sure one season. One season. I do feel like it might have come up though. I know maybe in our very initial planning. But here's the thing. For Lisa and I both, we don't really want to mess things up. We don't want to misrepresent biblical concepts. And so I think this is relatable, right, for all of us. So if we aren't totally sure, we just kind of avoid that topic. You ever feel like, you know, I'm not going to try to pronounce that word because I might say it wrong, sort of a feeling, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah. So, oops, okay, we're learning. However, what we're seeing now is we should enter into the conversation. We should bring some knowledge along. And our mentality is we reserve the right to get smarter, right? So it's okay if we're a little bit wrong. It's okay if we're proved wrong. Make no mistake, we're gonna like look it up, we're gonna research, we're gonna spend some time in it. But no, I mean, are you a self-proclaimed expert, Lisa?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Uh definitely not, nor am I. I definitely. I think I disqualify myself from most things. I'm just like, I don't know, is that humility, insecurity? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

I'm not sure. I know it's it's the sweetest thing when someone like what a compliment when someone calls you wise, and then how undeserving you immediately feel. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Undeserving. So take us there, Lisa. We're not experts, but here we are, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah, so I don't think we've mentioned the topic here. Oh, good. Let's keep you guessing. Any suggestions? What are we talking about here, Allie? What are we talking about? We wanted to talk about this um spiritual discipline or relationship builder of fasting. And the idea of what it is, why we do it, if we should do it, if it's relevant, and this is like an old biblical concept. This is something we should consider. And I think it is really interesting to talk about, particularly in like our current cultural landscape, right? Which we'll talk about that later. But you know, it's one of those topics. It's food, it's it's weight, it's a lot of things that like a lot of these like red flag like topics as women that are a little bit, yeah. I think we shy away from them. They're very personal, emotional sometimes. Yeah, and they're and they could be a trigger for someone. And when you get into any sort of like spiritual discipline, you also like run the risk of getting legalistic, yep, and people feeling like a good Christian does this, and it's not really what we're about, right? We're about drawing close to Jesus and that being the aim here. And there are several ways to do that, and this is just one of those things, though, that is it can really help you do that.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Sure, absolutely, and it's not a bad thing, right? And it's worth a conversation, absolutely. And you personally, I mean, actually, I have to say I admire Lisa because you've done more than one style of fasting too. Um, you know, recently she actually did like a social media fast, and I was so intrigued by that. Like, what a cool idea to like deprive some some part of your life. We see a lot of fasting comes in the form of like food and drink, though. Generally speaking, in the Bible, often it's a fast from food.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yes. And I have it's not something I've done a lot, and I like I said, definitely do not consider myself any sort of expert, but I've done a couple different ways. I've I have done like a food fast. Um, one time uh a group of us did that just like as we were kind of trying to make a really big decision, heading into a big meeting, and so we just as a group, as a a group of believers, decided to fast heading into this meeting. Um, it didn't go perfectly. I was very shaky. I probably should have broke my fast before we went into the meeting. That might have been a smarter thing to do. Um, because I my body was definitely having a reaction. But um, the one that really sticks out to me was like Lent, right? Like the season of Lent, you can give up something. Which I know you have actually done that too, Allie. We sure do. And the one year I gave up coffee, which, you know, it was life-changing. Oh, life-changing, no doubt. I mean, it was so obvious to me how much I relied on something as simple as coffee to get through my days.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Listeners, we've never heard you talk.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yeah, I know. This is shocking to everyone. But I know this is like my how is this like revolutionary to you, Lisa? We all know you love coffee. But it was like so hard, so hard, and but yet so like it did exactly what it was supposed to do. It brought me to my knees, and it made me rely on the Lord more than on this silly little cup of joy that I thought was not that important to me, which clearly was. Like it was a crutch.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Well, and you're bringing up something essential about fasting that we haven't even touched on yet.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

And you said the experience of doing this brought me to my knees, right? Like, why do we fast? I mean, I think this is these are all the parts of this we want to unpack a little bit, right? Right. Like, why are we even doing it? Well, as we're talking, I do want to just like bring something up. A while back, we discussed body image, like we did a podcast on body image, like that episode. You listeners, we can have an entire season devoted to fasting, just like we can have you can have an entire podcast about body image, right? I mean, these are very big concepts. So, our aim, again, is to start the conversation, focus on what God says about it. And Lisa very smartly, you know, pulled out her Bible definition. She's like, why don't we start with just defining, you know, setting the parameters of it? Because you give an example. Okay, maybe I didn't do it right because I was getting shaky and I pressed you broke my fast earlier. Here's how we did it with coffee. Here's how I did it with social media. So why don't we just start by defining what fasting even is biblical fasting.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Biblical fasting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

So I'm gonna be using my Bible dictionary that I love. It's like Okay, you actually, okay, we'd say this thing in our family. Um actually, and like we pretend we're putting up our glasses. The way you said I'm gonna be using my Bible dictionary was a total I'm actually like a nerd moment.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Is that kind of what you're saying right now? Yeah, yeah. Me and my like like reference book that I brought, book, excuse me, that I brought to your house for sure. Nerd both guys, it has like tabs for the letters.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Like this is old school. Like you grew up, you know, before the 1990s, like before the emergence of the internet, and you were in a card catalog. Like, this is what Lisa's. I love like team paper, man.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Like, I I love a good, good resource. It's good hearted ribbing. Love you, love a book. I know, I know, I know. So, this is the definition of fasting. I will actually also link my dictionary for anybody who is interested in purchasing my you know, this is one of the first resources I ever bought outside of my actual Bible when I wanted to start studying it more. My mom had it and she let me borrow it once, and I was like, before I knew it, like I was like in deep, and so then I got it as a gift. Um, because I'm like, okay, I think I want to geek out, mom. She's like, all right, let's go. So now I'm sorry for all my makeup. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for making fun of my gift for my mom. No, it's lovely. Okay, so here's a definition. It was actually quite long, but I'm just gonna splice out what I felt was a good um definition of biblical fasting. So fasting as defined by what we see in the Bible. Going without food or drink voluntarily, generally for religious purposes. Fasting, however, could also be done for other reasons. It was sometimes done as a sign of distress, grief, or repentance. The law of Moses specifically required fasting for one occasion, the day of atonement. This custom resulted in calling this day the day of fasting. And some references for that um are Jeremiah 36, 6 and Acts 27, 9. So that's kind of in the Old Testament. And in the New Testament, we see that Jesus fasted for 40 days and forty nights before his temptation. In that case, though, like in Matthew, using a marriage feast comparison, Jesus insisted that fasting was not even suitable for his disciples as long as he, the bridegroom, was with them. And so why Jesus himself fasted, and we see that modeled by him, he had a conversation at one point with the disciples that they didn't have to while they were in his presence.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Right. And so this this is what we're trying to like break down, right? Because we see some Old Testament almost feels like dictates in a way, like this isn't commanded, it's not one of the Ten Commandments, right? But we did see specific examples where it was almost required. Right. But felt like as part of the law. Right. And so then we have the emergence of Jesus in the New Testament, which actually I'm saying emergence is the wrong word. Jesus is and was, like he was always there, he will be there forever. So excuse that misspeak. But what I mean is like in physical bodily form. Right. Jesus is a man, we see in the New Testament, and we actually see that example of his own fast, right? The 40 days, 40 nights. Lisa referenced too in that, and she very smartly even like pulled out the Bible verse from Matthew 9:15 when Jesus answered the disciples. How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he's with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and then they will fast. So I love that. Like Jesus is the bread of life, right? Jesus is our sustenance. And so while he's walking the earth with the disciples, why would they need to fast? They're in his presence. Right. Like they're filled up by him, right? They have that example. They can pray with him, they can be in the very presence of God, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Which really reveals the point of fasting. Beautiful. Right? That really shows us the point. It's not a checkbox, it's not a religious practice for the art of doing it because this is what's required. It's to put us and help us get in that posture and to remind us to be in the presence of Jesus. It put drops us to our knees, right? Like, and so what a great that verse alone reminds us. This is the point is to be with Jesus. That is always the point, always the goal. And this is one way that we can do that.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Right. This is one way we kind of like lean into it a bit. Right. You know, in preparation for today, like I said, because we've avoided it a bit. Um, we want to see those biblical examples. We wanted to give you like that dictionary definition. But a resource Lisa and I use a lot is the Got Questions Ministry. I would advise, do you ever go on there for other things like other than the podcast? I feel like I'll do that sometimes when I'm just like I'm reading in my Bible or I'm reading a Christian author or I'm preparing for a Bible study. Like I really like this resource. So this got questions is an online ministry where they are going to use the Bible to support the answers to things. It's super solid. And so actually, like, well, we did it together a while back, like looked up. There's a bunch of articles on fasting, right? Yeah, it's a lot of good information. Just knowledge. Yes. You know? Yes. And so we just took one, and Lisa, if you don't mind linking it below. Absolutely. Um, I should show show you which one. Let me remember to do that later. You're in trouble. We'll have to. Because there were several. There were, there were. And so a couple things that this article made a point of, and we found it echoed throughout like other things we read, right? Because we even looked up other authors and different things. And so few things we see about fasting, and I already mentioned it. Scripture does not necessarily command that Christians have to fast, right? We don't see that as a required practice. Would you agree with that, Lisa? Absolutely. Okay. So God's not requiring it, but at the same time, how is it used? The Bible presents fasting as something that's good, it's profitable, it benefits us. What are the benefits of fasting? Well, um, it gives us examples here, like the book of Acts. They they fasted before they made an important decision. And and you experienced this, Lisa. You said a group of you were going into a meeting and you were going to fast together. And the article talks about that before you make an important decision or fasting as an extension of prayer, like those two ideas are sort of inextricably linked. Would you say that that was kind of like the heart posture you took when you went into that fast before?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yeah, because it's like a uh basically when your body feels that hunger pain or you think about food, that's your reminder to pray about the very thing that in which you're like thinking about. So that's kind of the goal. Is like if when you start to think about food or think about that or even have that, it's like, oh, okay, that's my reminder to pray. I like that. You didn't say that before. That was kind of funny. Yeah, and that was like the coffee thing too, was like I realized how much that was replacing what I should be starting my morning with, which was prayer.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Nice, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

So it is a it is a way to kind of thinking of Dr. J, embody, you know, and ourselves as a living sacrifice unto the Lord. It's using our bodies to do that.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I love that too, that sort of like jittery, you know, needing coffee or that physical hunger pang. Like what a great reminder. It's almost like uh a Bible alarm. Yes, exactly. It's like a little like gentle tap on the shoulder. Yeah, that's great. Well, not so gentle, so not always gentle. Yes, right. No, I like that. That's good. Um, the article also talks about, and again, I'm kind of summarizing here, um, but so often for us, especially Lisa mentioned this early on, like our cultural notions of fasting. So often the focus of fasting is the lack of food. And um, the article goes on to explain that really the purpose of a fast should be to take your eyes off of the things of this world. So, why do we fast? Well, we want to really hone and focus completely on God. Lisa, I love the way you almost like um she says all the time, like put handles on it. That that example really rung true with me. You feel the hunger pain. Okay, that's time to pray. And so, how do we focus completely on God? Well, because the fast draws us into natural moments in our day where we're hungry and our hunger should be aimed toward him, seeking him, knowing him, being consumed with the knowledge of him, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yeah, yeah. And like you had written here, I'm stealing your words because I love what you said here that fasting help us helps us gain a new perspective and a renewed reliance upon God. I don't think they were my words. I think I stole them from the article. No, but that's good. That from the Got Questions article? Yeah, I think I did. Okay. But say it again. Fasting helps us gain a new perspective and a renewed reliance upon God. I think that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Well, and I think what concerns me about fasting, and I would say you probably echo these concerns, is that we as Christians, and we just like as people can be kind of rule follower. Right. You know, like you and I talked about this in a previous episode. Like, God, just tell me what to do. Just give me the formula, tell me what tell me what you want. And so I really mishandled this concept. Um, I've really never fasted like this before, but I shared with Lisa, kind of it's embarrassing. But I don't know, maybe 20 years ago, um, I was at church and our pastor talked about these um, I don't know if you call it events, but like a worship session he would kind of have, and he called it the upper room. And it to model like what we see in the Bible, he would draw people in together to pray together, like just to to be consumed, to be spirit-led, to take some significant time away from our schedules to join communally in prayer, right? Outside of like a regular church. Exactly. It would be like a Thursday night or Friday night or you know, whatever. Usually smaller, very intimate. Exactly. And he had taught when he was describing these, he said, like in the past year, some people have even chosen to fast. Well, be honest, at that time in my life, I wasn't super familiar with a biblical fast at all. And he shared like a funny anecdote. And he was like, Oh, actually, you know, the last time we did it, David, this man in our church, um, was so generous, and he actually made a whole feast for us so that after our praying was done, we all went downstairs and like had this lovely meal together, like as a way to break our fast. And um, our pastor went on to say, like, and to be honest with you, I was so distracted praying because I could just smell the like the amazing aroma, you know, from the basement, from the kitchen that it like upset me a little bit, like, oh man, I gotta I can't stop thinking about food, you know. The opposite of what a fast exactly. So the funny thing is I clearly didn't hear all of it. I didn't like piece it all together, I didn't understand. So a couple months later, fast forward, he was doing a worship service. For whatever reason, my brain, I assumed it was this upper room thing. It was not. Let me just start there. So then I'm like, oh, I guess we're gonna fast. And I tell Kyle we're gonna fast. And I don't even know what that means. And so, like, my way of fasting was like, okay, no food. So I was just thinking, well, I could have drinks. I think I drank like, I don't know, like this Lake Michigan that day, like not even water. Like I literally went to Starbucks and got like some major frappuccino, like right again, opposite of fasting. I'm saying it, I hear it. Yeah, I was ridiculous. Like the amount of consumption of liquids, so totally wrong. Yeah, did not lean into God at all, didn't consider praying at all. And then I showed up at this worship service, and I remember being like, Where are the food aromas? Which I smell none. Went down to the basement kitchen, not a soul in sight. Oven was not on. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? Like, I thought I was doing this, the meal. No, it was just like a sweet. Yeah, it was a sweet, like worship night. Well, and it's Thanksgiving. So didn't you say it was Thanksgiving? So you're like, all you're thinking about is feasting and food. And so then it's like, I mean, I'm like, how much longer do we have to sit through this so we could get out of here and get me a cheeseburger? I mean, it was and then Kyle and I like sprint for our lives to go to a restaurant and like gorge ourselves. So this is horrible, horrible, stupid fasting. Obviously, I didn't understand.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Yeah, and yeah, it's at the same time, there was something that was like compelling, right? That you wanted to do this thing. I don't know, you know, I feel like you're giving, you know, looking back, obviously it's really hard to be critical. So easy to be critical to ourselves. But, you know, there was something in you that I think for all of us, there's something kind of like, hmm, I can see how this is helpful in some way. You know, I can see how this could be like, you know, transformative, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:18

But I miss the point. Like, yes. Okay, wait, what was the point? Yes. The deprivation of food is not about deprivation, it's about a leaning into God. It's about a like being fed by Him.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Yeah, and I will say, even with my own example that I told you about, we were leaning into a decision. You know, I think that again, I don't know that I was I was doing it because we all were doing it. And yet I think there is an easing into this idea. I think we really need to think through it before we just commit to it, you know. So maybe it needs to be like a personal decision before it's like a corporate decision. So, you know, but maybe it's time to talk to God about it because I think the point, like almost everything with God, is the why matters far more than the what or the how. Yeah, so it's the why behind your doing it. That's what actually matters. That is what gets to the heart of the whole point of this. It's like if you're choosing to fast, why are you choosing to fast? And then that can direct you forward. And if we are looking to practice and model the ways of Jesus, I mean the truth is Jesus did fast, right? He fasted from food. Like if this is the way we embody the experience of living out the call of Jesus and the way he lived, right? If we're gonna be apprentices of Jesus, that he is our teacher and our leader, and we want to model what he's doing, then obviously, you know, it's something to consider. He actually even taught on this. And so I think that's gonna be our scripture for today.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah, I I really love his teaching here, and I think it actually speaks to bigger issues. Yeah. Um, but we're back in Matthew this time. We we did read that um Matthew 9 scripture just about when he was instructing them that they didn't have to fast in his presence, like while he was still walking the earth. But in Matthew 6, he's actually talking about um how we kind of go about this and some other biblical principles here that that relate. So we're in Matthew 6. I'm reading from the ESV verses 16 through 18. And so Jesus is explaining when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites. For they disfigure your face excuse me, disfigure their faces, that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others, but by your father, who is watch this, listeners, in secret. And your father who sees in secret will reward you. So much to unpack here. Go back to what Jesus said. Those who disfigure their faces, those who look gloomy, truly I say to you, they've received their reward. What reward are they looking for? They want the praise of men, they want people to say, Whoa, you're fasting for God? Wow. Look at wow, I don't fast for God. I should do that. It isn't even about God. They took him out of the equation. It's all about the optics. The oh, beautiful. Yes, Lisa. It's all about the optics. What do I see? How do I respond? Hey, listeners, that's been me, that's been you.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Aren't we sometimes motivated by what people think of us? Some every now and then, very slight sometimes motivated by that.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that's what I mean, that's like the religious elite. That's what they did. They took this spiritual discipline, relationship builder, however we want to like position this of fasting, and did it for all of the wrong reasons and twisted it into something that it was never intended to be. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

And so when I read the scripture here, in secret, I love that phrase, in secret, God alone knows. This listeners, this helps our motive. Can I just keep my mouth shut about what I'm doing? Can I really just draw into him? I'm not gonna complain that I'm hungry. I'm not gonna complain that I wish I could eat something. Like in secret. You know, there there was a really funny example I heard once. Do you know how you know if someone's run a marathon? Because they've told you about it. Runners have to tell everyone that they're runners. And I'm like, oh shoot, I guess I have told people about things like that in my life. That's it kind of rings true here, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah. And it gets tricky because we were when we were talking about this to push back on that a little bit. Not that I'm pushing back on Jesus' teaching at all. But I will say, as someone who is a sharer and a verbal processor, sometimes going like it you know where you're at. Like sometimes I really am like sharing what God taught me, right? Like about my coffee experience. Like I really do feel like God reveals something to me or taught me something. I want to tell people. Sure. And so there's that, right? There's that idea of like if you do this and God reveals something to you and teaches something to you, sharing that. And then there's like the patting yourself on the back. Right. Or the the complaining, and I'm just looking for someone to like push me through. Like this is there's a difference. You've got to be able to determine and be real honest with yourself about what you're why you're doing it. One thing goes back to motives, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Would what is the heart, what is in our heart as we're doing these things? And that leads me actually kind of to the next point of this. When I'm reading it, in in look at how how Jesus positions this. Do not look gloomy like the hypocrites. Notice what he says. Do not look gloomy, what? Like the hypocrites. They disfigure their faces. And and he says later, when you fast, anoint your head, so it's like, you know, oil, like clean up your hair and wash your face. That your fasting may not be seen by others, but by your father who is in secret. Oh wait, clean up your appearance. Don't do it again for the watching eyes of the world. Do it for me. Do it to draw nearer to me. Dwell on the Lord. That's the purpose behind it. Yeah. Not, you know, I want a whole day without eating. You know, that that's not it. So we're missing the mark if we don't hear his words, right? And and I think that correlates with my first point, which is like he ends by saying that we will receive our reward. Listen, listen to the very last sentence. And your father who sees in secret, I love that. Your father sees in secret. Do you know that, listeners? He sees in secret, he sees your brains and your heart, and he sees it all. And he sees your motives. And he sees I I've said this at least before. God knows so much more about me than I even know about myself sometimes. Yeah. Because it takes me time to wade through the garbage that I'm claiming things are for to get to the root of what they're really about. And so he sees in secret he will reward us. He we receive heavenly rewards for our work here on earth. It could be fasting, that could be serving, that could be giving and tithing. The point of all this is that God alone knows. God alone sees. He sees everything. If our aim is to please him, we want to keep things between us and God. Lisa, I want to validate what you said. When God's doing a work in us, when he's moved in us, when my experience of fasting has is transformed me, yeah, I want to share it and we're called to share it.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

But I think it's not a dictate that you could never tell these things. It's like you're in it, you're in a bit of suffering, you're in a bit of a struggle. Grit that out. Lean on me. Get through it and then be transformed by it. And yes, share it.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

And work it out with him. Yes. Because as you're as after I shared what I said about, you know, me being a processor, and then you were reading more from the verse, I was like, but yes. Also, that withholding of the sharing is also transformative. It is not my instinct. And so is that also pushing me as a sharer to just share with God for a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Until I get perspective, right? So because I as I'm reading them, like, but Jesus is saying, yeah, no, keep it in secret, Lisa. So you can't push back on that just because you happen to have a personality type. This is what I'm telling you. So I was challenging myself as you were talking. It's like, oh yeah, but that's also withholding, right? That's also a form of sacrifice. That's also because that's what fasting is, is denying yourself something so that you will lean only on God and let Him be enough. So no, no, I'm pushing back on myself now about what I said. You know, maybe you have to wait in, like you said, grit in the moment until you have perspective later to be able to share. Because I'm even thinking about the fruit now of you doing it quote unquote wrong. How those fruit from that? But look at how God, first of all, I think I probably looked at like young Allie and just like kind of chuckled, like, look at her. She doesn't know there's gonna be no food when she gets there.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Like, I I mean seriously, God has such a sense of humor. And if it's like, let me bring you, like, just take a little imaginary stroll with me. Like, here I am in like the English department of the high school I'm working at with and I'm not kidding you. Like, imagine the most ridiculous monstrosity of a beverage that is like whipped creamy oro nonsense. It's like, here's me, like a dum-dum. Like, I'm fasting today. Like, what must other people?

SPEAKER_03 27:28

I mean, he's just like shaking his head and it's like, that's your reward for the day, Allie. It's so embarrassing. But in the mercy and kindness of God, look at him using that story today in a podcast on fasting. Like, the fruit will come. The transformation actually still occurred, just in maybe not the way.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah, it wasn't food. Talk about a legalistic mindset. I just didn't understand. Oh, hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

But I do think, look at that. Like, even that has become a fruit that we're offering in this podcast as a like sometimes we learn by not doing it well or right, or quote unquote right. But I think that's the point, is like it's not about that. It's about like going to the Lord about it in through the whole thing. You know, it's it's leaning on him, it's it's you know, understanding that we're not gonna do it perfectly. That's not what we're supposed to be doing at all. We're just supposed to be going to him.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Yeah, in our acknowledgement, right? Like in our weakness, he is strong. In our weak, in our stupidity, in our immaturity, in our fill-in-the-blank word. He is all of those things and so much more. And so you're right. I love the redemptive qualities of the thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

I really good way of putting it that he redeemed even that, you know. So as we talk through this, I I can't help but like go back to what we mentioned in the beginning, the whole cultural part of this, right? You know, there's I feel there's both and here. There's a cultural, like, you can't say that because people struggle with eating disordered eating, right? And so there's a there's a trigger warning almost that needs to happen here. Um, that you some people like work really hard to have a healthy relationship with food and fasting might mess that up. And and if that's you, that is a personal thing that you need to to talk out with the Lord and maybe even a counselor. So please don't see tell us hear us telling you to do this. Right. But I also don't think this is like this is something they did in the early church. This is something that's in the Bible. This is something you know, Jesus felt necessary to teach on. And so we should consider it. I mean, intermittent fasting is like a whole thing in our culture. For sure. So why is that okay? But us talking about this, why is everyone like you know what I mean? Biblical fasting feels wrong or weak. It shows me just how much our culture can twist and why the motives do matter. Yeah. Because one is focused, and and I'm not judging anybody who does that, but I'm just saying like that focus is like appearance, you know, necessarily it's more of a it could be health. I mean, I don't know enough about it to really understand the point of it. But from what I understand, it's like a workout health thing that you do for appearance. Whereas this is like the exact opposite of that. This is to like draw close to the Lord with your body, and it's all about his glory, not ours. The reward is in relationship with him, not in ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

So I don't know. No, I'm with that. And in fact, I think like ultimately what you're saying is what matters. We need to draw closer to the Lord. We need to draw closer to him in all things and always. That's our goal, right? Whatever this looks like, how do we let him creep into the corners of our lives? You know, like just send your spirit on this, send your spirit on that. Don't let my workplace be separate from my church place. Let it all be one. Don't let the way I act with my family be different than the way that I act with my neighbors, right? Like, let your presence be in all of it. And so perhaps fasting is a way for you to do it. You know, maybe not. That's okay. This is still worth a conversation, it's worth a consideration. You know, Lisa asked me when we were prepping for this. Like I said, I've actually never really done a fast. Like, even knowing now what it is, and she's like, huh, interesting. And it's like, well, this is a weird little thing, but I swear I get a little shaky when I haven't eaten and I feel funny. So I'm like, I don't know. Is a true fast deprivation from food for me? Maybe, maybe not. So that's I think how we want to come about this, right? Like, I don't think we have a definitive answer. Right. Do I think there are merits to fasting? Absolutely. Do I think it can draw us closer to God? Certainly. Um, but I also think there are things in our lives we could fast from. Sorry if that's blasphemous because the Bible says like fasting from food. Abstain. Abstain. Deny ourselves. Yeah, we should deny ourselves. Like, I think a fast from television or screens is a terrific idea, right? So I don't know that that's necessarily what the Bible is saying about it, but I think it's just a good practice for us to think about what things in my life maybe keep me from drawing nearer to God. If fasting and prayer are intertwined because they help us to dwell on Him, on His glory and His goodness. Well, that's a great practice. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Yeah, that's well said. That's well said. I, you know, I'm thinking through this as my what's like what's my live it out then, right? Right? I feel like that's where we're heading. And I do think I want to push myself a little bit. And I know I'm I feel I'm breaking the rules by telling you what my live it out is. Are you breaking the rules? I don't know. Can I? I mean, I'm like telling you that I'm going to fast.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Oh my goodness, come on, not fair. I have like this whole thing planned. Okay. So do you want to go first? Okay, now I am because you always I feel like you steal from me. I don't even read what you put. Okay, that's fine. I'm I'm just gonna say it. And then you can because you're gonna give me like a more parameters anyway. So this is good. Okay. So that was my live it out. I want to try a version of a fast, but I need to prepare for it. I don't want to say like, okay, starting next week, because I think that's a lie. You know what I mean? Like, I really want to think about this. Because I don't want to say, like, oh, I'm gonna give up fill in the blank. Because I'm not sure. I really am loving the idea of drawing nearer to him. And so I like the idea of easing myself in, like, versus just a food deprivation. Because I'm like, okay, I don't want to do it for health reasons. But what are indulgences in my life that maybe could be cleaned up? So I was actually thinking I'm bad with like desserts. Anyone who knows me knows that this is actually like a problem. And you're like, even that you're like not a problem. But it's like you indulge yourself so much, you know? And so it's like, okay, maybe it's like something like that, like something that is probably bad for me is not fueling my body. My body's a temple for the Lord. So these foods that don't provide sustenance, because then that does allow me to focus on how Jesus is the bread of life. So, like I said earlier, I don't know if I could go a day without food, but maybe I start by easing myself in with some like smaller ways so that I could really let that whole idea of prayer be my focus. When it's like, oh, I wish at night I could have a whatever. It's like that's that trigger, like you mentioned, the hunger pang was the trigger to like engage in prayer to bring you back to your knees. I like that because I think whatever the deprivation is would bring me back to him. I I really like that connection piece.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

I know, is it though? Because I I'm not like fully committing to like for one day I won't, because I also think that that is too legalistic in and of itself. That's what I'm saying. I don't want to say this week I won't.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Well, and I think part of living this out go is going back to our verse of keeping it in secret. And so I'm thinking through that right now, and I'm I'm I think what I'm going to commit to publicly is I'm going to, I was like kind of doing some research, and there was like a podcast series that I was like listening to on fasting. So I think I'm going to commit to doing um more research on my own, like learning a little bit more about it, and then where I go from there, I'm going to let between me and the Lord. Let leave that between me and the Lord. Because I do have some ideas and I do want to push myself. And it does more related to food specifically. But I think as far as what I'm going to like commit to publicly, I want to finish the series I was listening to and maybe do a little bit more research so I understand kind of the the cultural and historical and biblical nature behind it before committing how I want to move forward. Because part of what I was learning, and I couldn't even tell you where I had to go back and really look, but like one of the things I learned was that in biblical times, they did like several they like fasting was a weekly thing. Like in the middle of the week, they tended to do that until like sundown. That was actually part of their regular rhythm of their like religious experience. Like they just built that into their week, which actually makes sense to me because that would like be a way of like remembering God in your week regularly. And so, but then you're like, okay, then I'm thinking like realistically, well, till dawn, okay, can I go without food? But what if I'm gonna work out that day? But then maybe that could be my rest day. So these are the things like I'm working out in my brain that I think God and I have to figure out. So, but I am gonna commit to finishing that series and reading a couple of the other resources I tagged and doing more research, and then I'm gonna privately make a decision.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

I like that. Does that make sense? Yeah, well, and that's like two, what's our heart motive behind it? And so I think even you to say, I'm someone who wants to verbally process, I'm someone who wants to like talk it out, and you're really leaning to the in-secret, I think show something right there about your heart posture. Like, what's God revealing in you? You are looking for a specific way to draw close to Him. Keeping it private, even in your delivery of information, is a really, really neat thing to witness.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

You're very kind. I kind of feel like I verbally processed just now, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

I'm trying, I'm a work in progress, you know. Aren't we all? I love it. I love it. Lisa, why don't you pray us out? And listeners, I'm gonna say it again. We avoided this topic, but Lisa, I think we're okay. I think we Okay. I think we chatted about it. We at least opened up the conversation, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Yeah. Yeah. I I feel pretty good about how, you know, we're all right. This worked out okay. And feel free to always like message us with questions and email us. Feedback is awesome, especially when we tackle these kind of topics. You know, you could do, again, an entire s season on this, and there's so much, so much research that goes into it. But we just thought we would just open the door a little here. I love it. Okay, let's go to the Lord. Oh, Heavenly Father. First of all, I just thank you for your grace. Sometimes heading into um new topics or new ideas or concepts is a little intimidating, Lord. And I know Allie and I really don't want to get it wrong and yet know that we will. And so we just come to you humbly and um thank you for your grace that is covering us in this very moment, Lord. And we just ask for you to just stir in the hearts of our listeners as they consider this topic, Lord. What it is it that you are trying to speak to them through the learning of the teachings of Jesus, what it looks like to just draw near to him and all the ways we can do that. And even just in your creation, Lord, and the way you provide for us, and you know, we can see you in creation in the trees and in the animals and in food that you created, Lord, it all points back to you and who you are. And so I just pray that you would just work in our hearts, Lord, guide us into the next right thing so that we can just really, you know, offer ourselves as a living sacrifice. That is what you call us to. And that can look a lot of different ways, whether it's abstaining from something, whether it's maybe shifting and holding back the way we usually process things and just keep it between you and us, or if it is just, you know, abstaining from something we really enjoy, so that we remember that you are actually the only one that matters, the only thing that matters, and that you are the bread of life, that you sustain us, that when all is stripped away, our relationship with you is really all that matters. So help us just remember that, Lord, that our why is about you and bringing you glory and you filling us and giving us your strength and your power and your joy and your peace so that we can then share it with others, Lord. We love you, we thank you for your son, Jesus. In his name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Amen. Listeners, draw closer to the Lord this week. He alone is our salad.