Episode 65: People Over Production

God loves it when we serve Him. He loves our ministry efforts. He loves it when we spend our time and talents to further the Kingdom. But sometimes in all our doing for the Lord, we can lose sight of His heart and as a result, we can lose sight of His people. This week on the podcast, Ali and Lisa talk through one of the core values of Hickory Creek Church: “People over Production.” It’s not that production is bad, but when it comes to prioritizing, we need to follow the example of Jesus and always put His people first, both inside and outside the church. Tune in this week as Ali and Lisa both share times when they got it wrong, and how the shepherds in their lives gently pointed them back to what God cares about the most – His people.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Her Salad Ground Podcast. I'm Lisa Bonima, and I'm Alicia Jakubek.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Listeners, I want to start today with a story that will forever stick with me. Um, I was newer to Hickory Creek Church. I guess we'd been there for a while. Um, and I had a desire to teach and lead Bible studies, and so I was lucky enough to have first been partnered with Lynn Schumacher, who was our women's ministry director at the time. Great mentor in my life. I know, isn't she the best? She's really helpful with anybody that's new. I feel like she's great at come alongside them. Yeah. Um, so anyhow, at the time, Karen Habercorn kind of led and oversaw our um Bible studies. She was a Bible study director. So she had invited me to come in, you know, as a co-director with her. And so we had a meeting with a couple of the pastors in our church. So great. You know, I'm all eager and I have, if you know me, to know me, listeners is to love me, my agenda items prominently displayed and all the objectives and typed up or written out, actually, maybe even on paper at that point. Yes, possibly. But all the objectives. And of course, in my mind, nothing was more important in the world than women's Bible studies and what we were achieving, what we were doing, et cetera, et cetera. So I shared that in the meeting, you know, and we were talking through a lot of things, planning, etc. And I, you know, in all of my sage wisdom, decided to bring up some areas where perhaps we were missing the mark. Lisa, does that surprise you at all? Not at all. In fact, one place we were missing the mark, in my opinion, was with a particular leader. And I expressed that. You know, this particular leader, in my opinion, does not have very good rapport with the women. She's actually kind of cold, and I find her to be highly critical, and I just don't think this is a good fit. And perhaps we find a way to just gently kick her to the curb. I mean, right, what a lovely, lovely beacon of God's light I am, you know? And I said these things and thought I was like well within my rights to express it.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

I thought you were being like maybe wise and discerning, carefully choosing your words, but that was like the underlying message was the curve.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

I'm being a little casual, obviously, here, but um, no, this was an important item on my agenda that needed attention. I will tell you, after I delivered my important news, I mean, would it be bad to say I was swiftly kicked to the curve? I mean that metaphorically speaking, figuratively a little bit, I was clearly, though tenderly, corrected. In fact, uh the pastors in the room, Pastor Bob Lulo and uh Dr. Julius, Dr. J, um, immediately seized the opportunity to share with me one of our core values, which is people over production. They took the time to explain to me what I didn't know about this leader, how wonderful this person was, what I didn't see, and this person would never be asked not to lead. And that my mindset had to always be that each person we interact with was an image bearer of God. Talk about a humbling experience. It just stopped me in my tracks because here I am looking like, well, I have this teaching background, and we need, you know, better equipped teachers, and we need, you know, at Lisa, you know, you've had to teach with me, like very clear agendas and very, you know, like typed out discussion. But I mean, I had a plan. Right. Plans be darned sometimes, aren't they? Because that's the production aspect, that's the pushing things forward aspect. But I completely lost sight of what our real mission was.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I think it's easy to do for all of us, but yes, you happen to be more on the side of like type A. Like you are like that is your strength, right? Like production is your strength. And so for you, it was even more like didn't wasn't on your radar necessarily. And it's it's such a beautiful like mantra, you know. I I absolutely love it. And you even taught this to me when you and I started doing um ministry together here. It was there was a couple of conversations that we had, and you gently did the same for me, you know, and I'm not even really a production-y person, but I fell into that mentality and you said, you know, gently, like Lisa, I'm just gonna stop you right there. I just want to tell you something. Here is how our church will always operate. And you can have a whole list of reasons why you think it should go a different way, but people will always come first. That is the heartbeat of our church. And it was such a beautiful, like, you know, correcting moment in my heart too. Like, well, yeah, of course. That makes perfect sense. That is what a heartbeat should be of anyone, you know, especially of a church.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Well, and I learned that. I mean, I I don't know, sometimes it's great in life, isn't it, when we have these mishaps or these failures, or like we just epically screw something up. Yeah. Because then there's an opportunity, right, for the spirit to step on in and re-guide our steps. And so for me, I totally learned from that experience that I, Alicia, has to stop putting her goals ahead of our mission to glorify God's kingdom, serve his people. Like, I wasn't even seeing that. Do you know? Like, it was like, here's the studies we should be doing, here's how it should go about, here's how, you know, it was just so agenda focused. And that matters. Honestly, I think planning is essential to excellence and to like putting our best foot forward before God to raise up his kingdom. Like we can't just, you know, willy-nilly hope for things either. Right. But we need to have a balance, and like you said, I love the way that you summarized um, even in our interaction and it years later, like, but our main priority will always be the people here, always. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

If there's a choice that has to be made in that moment of what we're putting first or how we're prioritizing, people will always be the focus, which of course that is all of what Jesus teaches us.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Well, it is, and like that's a thing with this very idea of people over production. I mean, some things the production quality is just off the charts, right? Or really dynamic speakers, or like insanely powerful worship, or I even make jokes. Like you're looking for videos, okay? So go on a Google search, right? And look for videos, like Christian videos, maybe like like one of those, they they call it something. I'm sorry, I don't know the term. It's like not a trailer, but it's like before a sermon or like after a sermon. It has a name. I'm messing it up. It doesn't matter. The point is, if you watch some of these videos, there has always been, right, a little bit of an issue with some Christian programming because it's cheesy. Yeah. Like it feels like, oh brother, we're not gonna use that. In fact, there was one year I was like trying to find some good videos, bumpers, maybe. I think they're called bumpers, like video bumpers for Merry Mixer. And I found all these great videos, and they're from like the Church of Latter-day Saints, like the Mormon church. And I remember Mark Fisher, our technology director, and I'm like, Do you think anyone would notice? And he's like, Can we cut that out? And it's like, oh my goodness, Scott, we'll like we're gonna get in trouble. So we had to find something different, but because it's like sometimes, right, that production quality, that production piece, yeah, maybe on accident takes every stage.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, because I even think about your example, and you were just like trying to serve the Lord well and use your gifts and talents for him. And so you went through and you took the time to like think through, like really be discerning about what would be best for the ministry and what could change. And sometimes change is necessary. And so I understand like your heart behind it initially really was for all the good things, right? You weren't like, I don't like this person, I want them out of here. Like that was it wasn't your motivation. It was like, I don't know that this is really serving our women well. I don't know that this is actually the best thing for us as in the leadership is you know, like there's a whole bunch of things on your mind that were geared toward the right thing. But then in that, you did you lost sight of the person, you know, which I think we all can do. I think it's just I don't know, in our working, we can forget about the people.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Yeah, and that's concerning. And actually, what's really neat too, like you you said this, Lisa, like a church is supposed to look different. And I I praise God for all these opportunities for us to be humbled. And even as we're talking, you know, it's like a reluctance. Do we share these stories? Do I tell what's real? Am I is this too transparent? But what a shame if we hold back on what's true.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Like, let us be a people who invite correction, who share these failures a little bit. Because isn't that truly the embodiment of people over production? Like people, me, I am a flawed, sinful human. And so let me be transformed by God. And I can never do that if we're not willing to see people as people and to work on that.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, and I am really I really respect, you know, Pastor Bob and Dr. J for being such good leaders to hold you accountable. Yeah, you know, it's such a beautiful picture of what the church also is. It's a place for us to to hold each other accountable and to point each other back to God and God's heart and the purpose of the church. Oh, yeah. And and so, you know, it's it's shepherding and and loving. It's both. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

And how do you even strike that balance well? Because even in the correction, they were so kind to me, yeah, but so clear.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

And you the same with me. And I do think that when you are a believer, you know truth when you hear it. It might hurt, it might be like, oh, and we might even get a little defensive, but I think if we're really in a deep relationship with the Lord, we'll know when we hear the truth. That's such a great point, you know, and so I think you have to be open to that and making sure your heart is in that like learning posture always, especially when you're around in a situation like that where you're by a table of like leaders who love the Lord too. Yes you know, like we need to be able to receive that.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

All right, we're on shared mission, and really like this idea, shared mission is people over production, right? Yes, shared mission. Look at Jesus, like people over production, right? That's absolutely He could perform the miracles, he could do all the things, but he also went to the lost. He went to the he left the 99, right? For the one. And so we see this played out over and over. And and actually, I'll even share in my personal life, you know, I'm I'm embarking on this new position, I'm at a public high school. I see this as more than just like a lesson I learned in our church. I see this as like a teaching and leading philosophy. It's so much bigger than four walls of a church building. Like people overproduction is just a very clear way of viewing our brothers and sisters, again, who are made in God's image, all of them, you know, go back to last season, all eight billion. This is a way of thinking that matters. And so we don't need to limit this to like the sphere of church. Like, I'll be nice to the church people because they want me to, right? It's like, how do we see our that frustrating neighbor who always, I don't know, what's something frustrating neighbor does? Leaves their garbage cans out.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Don't mow their lawn.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Don't mow their lawn. There we go. That's a good example. Okay. But it's like, how do we see people over production? Do we see that that unmown lawn is really just like a busy life and hard to keep up? And maybe we can come alongside that family in some way and offer our services to mow their lawn. Yeah, right? Yeah. Without pay. Yeah. Just just something to think about because it's again, I think this we do a really good job in church circles of like, oh yeah, let's be nicer in church.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

But this is a lot bigger than just church. That is such a great point. I mean, if we're talking about bringing Jesus into the world, like this is a very real way we can do this, and people will notice. People notice when you put them, when you make time for them. People notice when you can set aside whatever it is you're doing and look them straight in the eye and have a conversation. Like these are the things that people, and it matters, it hits something so deep in your heart because you feel seen, you feel loved, you feel cared for. And like that is the stuff of Jesus. So, how what a beautiful example of how you could be a light in this world, Allie. Honest to goodness.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

See, now Lisa, you were saying it to me. And as you're speaking, I'm just dwelling on who this girl sitting across from me is because people over production, sweet Lisa Bonama goes and speaks to you know different groups and churches and moms groups and all these different things. And then after she gives a speaking, I'll talk to her the next week and it's like, oh, I'm having coffee with Rita from you know Indiana. I'm like, honest to goodness, Lisa, let me take control of your calendar. Because you know what? Lisa, I'm serious, and I know you don't want to like get all this praise, but you just live it out all the time. You talk about making eye contact with someone, looking into their eyes. That's you. Like, I am actually like constantly like, Lisa, stop talking to people. Lisa, move it along. Lisa, we've got an agenda here.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

My children at the end of Sunday is like, mom, we're in the car. I'm getting text messages. They've now come in twice to tap me on the shoulder. I don't know. I don't know. These are all great things. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

No, but this is you, honey. You're so good at it. You are, you are people over production.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I love it. But you know, again, we started this off like I fall into it too. You know, sometimes you get into like a mode, right? And honestly, some people are just really frustrating, especially if they are different than you. Like it's hard when you have someone who you have to work alongside or that you have to. Are you talking about me right now? What? I said, Are you talking about me right now? I am not. I'm actually I'm thinking about you with me because one of the things about me is that I am often late. And it's like Ellie is not ever late and she's early. That's not true. Now I'm gonna be late to like the next thing I have to do. Well, you're you're it's not a thing for you. Let's just put it that way. You actually legitimately have a reason where I just am consistently five minutes late for everything. And you have had to learn to like love me anyway. Like, okay, Lisa, I know you are, you know, I know your heart, and so she's forgiven me, even though I actually have tried really hard sometimes to be on time. And there have been moments where I succeeded, but most of the time I'm just really late.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

No, and then she's like that really braggy succeeder. Like when she does, it's like, just so you know, I'm already here. Someone take notes, write it down. I'm here early. Like it's like a selfie with a clock outside. This has actually happened before. Um, but so let me move us into like some context for this in terms of biblical scripture and story. Um, it was sweet as we were planning. Lisa immediately thought of the story of the woman who reaches out to touch Jesus. And, you know, we both kind of like, oh, great example. Like, let's jump into that. And I actually pulled out my old notebook from when I had taught Matthew, and then Lisa's like, I actually think it's in Luke. And then then Lisa, what what did you do next? You pulled out your laptop, and what were we watching before long?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

I made her spend six minutes of her life watching um a clip from the chosen because it was such a beautiful, it just captures the story. The heart of the woman, the heart of Jesus. It was just wasn't that a worthwhile watch?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

It was a well, I'm like, six minutes, you you gotta you lost your mind. I'm not gonna watch this. And it took a while. She was fidgety for the first three minutes. I love listeners getting this great insight into our personalities. Um, but I really think I will say I liked the visual of it. I agree with you. Yeah, and I wanted to actually go to the um Mark version of the story because remember with the gospels, right? We have the different perspectives of the different authors. Right. So just to clarify, it is in Matthew and Luke and Mark. Yes, it's in all three. But I I liked um the one in Mark V. In fact, when I was looking back at my notes from when I taught Matthew a while back, I used the Wearsby commentary and I'm gonna reference him again in a little bit. But he he noted that he thought maybe it like had the best version of the story in Mark to share. So that's why I landed there. So I'm gonna read from Mark 5, 25 to 34. But before we do that, Lisa, let's just like lay the groundwork of what else was going on in this um particular part of scripture. We should we should we tell them about our other deep dive um into the audio world of pronunciations?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, I mean, I feel like you can just say what you want to say when it comes to biblical names because there is a version that tells you all of the things.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

There is. So right before this, Jesus is asked by Gyrus. I'm saying gyrus. Yes. Jairus, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah, depending on who you're Googling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Gyrus, Jairus, but we know who we're talking about. We heard several. Um, so Gyrus is this religious leader, right? And he comes to Jesus for help because his daughter is, you know, ill and she's dying. Okay. So, anyhow, we could see the power of his faith because it's like, I'm going to to Jesus, I need you. You need to come now, you need to help me, right? So that's a context of what's going on in the Bible when this this particular section happens, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Anything else to Yeah, well, they're moving. So Jesus is on mission to help Jairus and to heal his daughter. Like they're in motion to go accomplish this.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, and so Gyrus is a Jewish leader, again, 12-year-old daughter, she was always healthy. But now we're gonna parallel that with this sort of, and I'm gonna use a term, I don't mean it to be cruel, but sort of an anonymous woman, right? Because we don't really get any uh a name or anything. I mean daughter later, but we'll get into that in a second. So I'm gonna read here from Mark V and share the story with you. Mark five, twenty-five. Actually, I'm gonna start with twenty-six, just right before that. So Jesus went with him, him being Jairus. A large crowd followed and pressed around him. So that's what Lisa was referencing. There are people all around. And that that visual we watch from the chosen really represents that. You can see all the people. And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for 12 years. She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had. Yet instead of getting better, she grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and she touched his cloak because she thought, if I just touch his clothes, I will be healed. Immediately her bleeding stopped. She felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering. At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and he asked, Who touched my clothes? You see the people crowding against you, his disciples answered, and yet you can ask who touched me? Because again, remember the context, folks, like there are people everywhere. I mean, people are touching him because he's in a crowd. So for him to ask who touched me, the disciples are confused by this. Like, what do you mean? Who touched you? People are touching you. But but notice again what it said in verse 30. He realized that power had gone out from him. Okay, so Jesus knew that. And so now again, I'm on uh verse 32. But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. That's a hard line, isn't it? Told him the whole truth. Don't you wish you had like the dialogue between them? I love how the Bible does this. We get years of information in a sentence. You wish you were there with your iPhone capturing it, but we aren't. Here's what we know. She told him the whole truth. And now look at verse 34. This is where we're gonna land. He said to her, daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering. People over production, Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, I mean, the context really matters in this particular story to so that you can fully understand that Jesus was on in motion to accomplish a miracle, you know, and that he stopped on purpose and stopped in a very inconvenient situation, right? Like it's crowded, it's you know, a lot of people touching him. You know, he's got he cares about gyrus, he wants to to heal his daughter, you know, we all these things we're assuming, right? And yet he stops. And he not only, I mean, he didn't even mean to heal her necessarily, right? She reached for him, and yet he knew that it was important, and he stopped and he to like gave her his attention. Like it's just such a beautiful picture of who Jesus is, you know. In the in the version of the chosen, again, that is not scripture, but I do visualize him kneeling before her, getting eye to eye with her, and just like looking in her eyes and and calling her daughter. You know, these words are important, and even her telling him not. The whole truth that it like you said, if only we knew what that conversation actually was, but I think the whole truth truth, I don't know, it laid us a thing. It was a long story, there's a lot to talk about. And of course, Jesus already knew, right? And so I don't know, it's just but yeah, he it's like prayer, right? Like God knows, but he still wants us to take the time to talk to him and he will listen, you know. It's all just such a beautiful like example of who Jesus is.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Well, and even there's so much to pull apart from that story, like her suffering, her 12 years, her seeking doctors, her needing help. Yeah. But then that undeniable faith that all it would take is just the touch of his fringe. Remember, we see it in in three different spots, so we get a little bit of a piece of the story in each section. But like I said, I thought Mark gave more of the wholeness of it. But even just um, you know, they describe her as touching the fringe of his garment, really. Because just that alone was enough. It it's almost like her faith was superstitious in a way, right? Right? Like, like just if I could do this one thing. That mustard seed of faith. Yes, that just this one. And so it was interesting to me. Um, like I said, when I was teaching this previously in the book of Matthew, I did go to Wearsby's commentary. So I'm I'm noting what he said again. This was from Matthew, but it's the same story in the three gospels. He he says here it's interesting that Gyrus and this woman, two opposite people, met at the feet of Jesus. Gyrus was a leading Jewish man. She was an anonymous woman with no prestige or resources. He was a synagogue leader while her affliction kept her from worship. Remember, folks, she was considered unclean. Yeah. Like in Jewish culture, we didn't mention that. Yes. I should have given that context. Bleeding, I mean, this is at least it does this bring us back to like Bible in a year when we're studying the Old Testament, we're learning these things. But she was considered unclean for the bleeding. Like she wouldn't even be allowed to touch Jesus because of her position with this um. Right, exactly. And so um, sorry, I was reading so that Gyrus came pleading for his daughter, and the woman came with a need of her own. The girl had been healthy, watch this, healthy for 12 years, right? This was the issue. She was 12 years old, she'd never had an issue. Gyrus is like, help me, we don't know what's going on. So the girl is healthy for 12 years, but now parallel that with the woman, the woman had been ill for 12 years and was now made whole. Isn't that cool? I never noticed that. Isn't that neat? Yes. Well, Wearsby noticed it, so now I noticed it.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Thank you, Wearsby.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah, I know he's great, isn't he? He gives us so much insight. But I love that parallel because it's like people matter so much to Jesus Christ. He walked this earth and he came alongside all of them. Every one of them. And he's doing that for us. He's doing it for us. We see him at work still. And I love just the the picture of it because I think sometimes we can really relate with the anonymous woman, feeling forgotten, feeling lost, feeling our suffering, feeling our baggage, feeling whatever fill in the blank that looks like. And we forget that we matter to him so much. That he would stop in that crowd, that he would stop on the way to the miracle, that he would stop when a little girl is gonna die in the meantime, and he still comes and seeks us. Just like he did for this woman, and then he calls us daughter. Right?

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Yeah, and even that he used the word daughter and paralleling that with Jairus' daughter, like you're all valuable to me. I came to heal you all. And it's just young, old, clean, unclean, like we're all important to him, we're all valuable, we're all like he'll make time for all of us. And if we want to be Jesus in a moment, and obviously we're not Jesus, we can't heal, right? Obviously, we can't heal. But if we're actually wanting to live out this call, and we've got to think about that, and we're in our agendas and we're on our mission. Even if that mission is holy and mission, like ministry-oriented, and whatever it is, we've got to make sure we leave room to stop and see everyone in our path.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yes. In fact, I'm I'm loving that you said that. You just like lobbed me a perfect softball. You might not even realize it. But I started by talking about a story where I was corrected by two pastors that we love, Dr. J and Bob Lulu. And I want to end by sharing a funny story that Bob Lulo told me about Dr. J. That they go to the Dominican Republic, you know, our church does that. Uh they take youth group and go. But um, they some of our pastors and leaders have gone there too to do some work, to meet with other pastors to do training, etc. And it's it's unrelatable for us, right, as Americans. Maybe it is if you've like ever gone to like a McDonald's or fast food restaurant in the South, you know what I'm talking about. But there's just like another speed of life in other countries. That's a that's it. It's way different pacing.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

And things are like extremely frustrating and annoying when you're used to being an American and being catered to and having things on your time frame and your et cetera, et cetera, right? Yeah. So Bob was sharing one particular time they were in the DR and that he just was like, oh my goodness, everything is a thing. Nobody's on time, and everybody's and everyone's frustrating, and we sit for hours and let's go. And and he said, Dr. J came alongside him and said, Wow, you're so frustrated by these image bearers of the living God, you know. But that's the big that's the big takeaway, Lisa. We can do all the right things in a church setting, but can we do this when we're annoyed at a worker at a store?

unknown 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Can we see people over production? I think of even so many stories that we've told on mic, so many previous podcast episodes that are all tiptoeing around this very concept. We're just putting handles on it now, we're giving it a name.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Which the name's been there. Yes. Um, but let's think about that just in our comings and goings. Are we offering that value? Are we getting down on ground level? Are we listening to the whole story? Are we reaching out and saying daughter?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah, when you said this last just what you just said about listening to the whole story. I'm trying to think of really practical ways when you are noticing a friction or a tension with someone, whether it's a coworker or someone at church or maybe even someone within your own family, you are noticing like a real annoyance or frustration with someone. And then you know the pos you know that the answer is people over production, but you're having a hard time getting your heart there. I would like turn back to this story. Like, are you listening to the whole truth? Are you taking a minute to look at the person, their their heart? Are you remembering who they are? Are you remembering all the valuable things that and strengths that they have? Or are you just focusing on this one weakness or frustration, you know? And it's it's taking a step back. And maybe that's sitting down and having a conversation with someone, going and getting coffee with them and hearing the whole story or leaving room for that. Because I have found that when I have been frustrated with certain people, it's a lot of times it's because I forgot to spend time with them, or you know, like even your kids, you think about parenting, and when you're like the most like chippy with your kids, it's when you're like being interrupted, right? Because I'm distracted. Like, even I can think of times when, you know, Lord forgive me, I have like my earbuds in and I'm listening to a podcast, another podcast, and my kids are like scare you. I know, right? Sorry, sorry. I and like my kids are like tapping me and I'm like, what? And you're like, whoa, like take a second, like this is your child, you know what I mean? Like, but it's because we're distracted and we're in our own brain. So taking a deep breath, you know, stepping away, or even like reevaluating the situation and making time for that person, your heart does soften when you take when you make that space to see someone's heart. So that just feels like a really practical way that if there's someone in your life you're noticing friction with or that you're just having a really hard time, you helped me with that, Allie. You know, I can think of a couple episodes a couple instances where you've helped me see someone and know another side of them that like helped me, like, oh, okay, stop making this about the production and not the person. Because I don't know the person well enough yet. So maybe I need to go get to know the person and then I'll, you know, I'll see it differently. And I have.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I'm telling you, this is an Ali Lisa love fest because you're giving me credit. And as you're talking, I keep thinking about how well you do this. See, we do it for each other, right? I love you more. I love you more. They're all like blah. Sorry, guys, but this is for real. How awesome. Thank you, God, for praise him for great relationships that like refine us, redirect us, correct us. Yeah, that's good stuff. Yeah, absolutely. So, what's your live it out? Okay, well, actually, I'm just gonna say what it is, and then I'll give the wah-wah of it. Okay, so mine is to focus on the people. I said it earlier. I want to channel this in the role I'm in now. I mean, this is, you know, of course, I was in education before, but I'm in a brand new school right now. You know, I'm meeting all new staff, all new students. And I want to see the people there, like as people, not just students. I want to see the teachers there as people, not just staff. You know, like we compartmentalize and box people into roles. Right, like projects. Yes, exactly. Yes. Oh, you think I don't like, you know what I'm gonna accomplish? No, no, no. I really think it's so important for me to get to know this sweet, small community that I'm entering. So wah wah, is it quantifiable? Nope. Like this isn't one I can track and tell you how I'm doing. And even that in my brain, it's like, do I make a list of everyone's name and I put check marks? But doesn't that seem to lose some of the point of it behind what I'm trying to do? So sorry, everyone, I'll admit this isn't a super quantifiable live it out, but this is practical and real and what I'm walking in right now. And I'm gonna keep moving forward with the plan because I really want to get to know so many groups of people that I just don't know yet. And I think that matters, and I think there's only the only way to make inroads and to have an impact in a place is to know the people. Really, I mean, try to know the people, not just like knowing names. You know, it's a little more than that.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah, no, that is beautiful. I love that God has given you this new opportunity to kind of um to share this heart posture, you know, with people outside of the church. Like this is the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

I just love that. Well, I'm I don't know if I said this out loud, but actually in one of my interviews, I shared this concept of people over production being like an important philosophy. Oh, really? I did because, like I said, I learned it at church, but I I just feel this is omnipresent, you know, and so yeah, I love that. It's already out there.

unknown 33:08

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Okay, so I'm trying to think of like what I can do. So I've done this in the past, but I can't say that I've been doing it intentionally. So I think I'm gonna be just more intentional in this, like, okay, we'll quantify it this week. Oh, there she goes. And are you trying to best me, best me right now with having like tangible okay, go ahead. Um in my prayer, like in the morning when I start my day, I'm gonna ask for the Lord to like give me his eyes to see. We've done this before. Yes, I think. You know, but I think just making it intentional, like open my eyes to the interruptions that are like divine invitations, right? And so give me the eyes to see, Lord, to see everybody in my path, to make that extra, go that extra mile. And there, even if it's just a smile, you know, or or saying hello to someone, you know, we don't always understand the impact that things can have on people or even ourselves, even who I will become from being more intentional, not just what I can do for others, but also like how that can change who I am. And so I think just being intentional in my prayer the next week or so, asking the Lord to give me his eyes. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Actually, I'm gonna go to God with that right now and I'm gonna start our prayer with it. So let's pray. Lord, do give us your eyes. Help us to see what you see and what we fall short of constantly, which is that every person who walks this earth was made in your image and has the potential to be a child of God. Lord, help us to see more than just surface level things, frustrations. Help us to value the heart of someone in the way that you know us so beautifully, and you give us grace when we don't deserve it. You are just so unbelievably kind to us. Lord, let us use your eyes. Let us see, let us value people, and let us sometimes be willing to set aside our agendas and our motives and the tasks of the day, though they are important to God. Let us slow down and truly live out your missions. God, I thank you for the opportunity to share honestly, even when it's embarrassing. Lord, wipe my pride so that I am okay with being transparent, and that I can always be evolving into a better woman who is seeking you. In your heavenly name, I pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Amen. Listeners, each of you matters to God. He alone is your solid crown.