Episode 63: Learning Posture

This week, we take a hard look at pride and how it can sneak into our faith walks and relationships. Far too often we are so focused on sharing our perspective and being “right,” that we forget that we all have blind spots, and even more so, that God is always trying to teach us something. Can we be people who choose humility and love over proving our point? Listen in as Ali and Lisa talk about why having a learning posture before the Lord and others is so important, why it’s hard, and practical ways we can live it out. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello and welcome to the Her Salad Ground Podcast. I'm Lisa Banama. And I'm Alicia Jacobak.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

You know, as a teacher, I like to start the first day of school by telling my students that I would learn just as much from them as they would learn from me that year. And um one of my favorite parts of this is when that confused students. Like, wait, do we get to like teach sometimes? They didn't always know exactly what I meant by that. Um, but my what I was trying to convey to them is like when you're a teacher, when you get the privilege of working in a school, you are learning all the time. You know, and so okay, yes, maybe you're the conduit for information. Maybe you're the one, like for instance, I was an English teacher, so maybe I'm the one teaching you Hamlet, right? And you don't understand and understand Shakespeare, so I'm breaking that down for you. But I learned so much from them because it's like they're coming up with ideas I never considered. They're thinking of connections, but just the very human condition, you know, being in proximity to people, watching how they learn and grow, or don't learn and grow, or respond to adversity, or thrive, or whatever that looks like. A school is a place of continual learning.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

That's a such a healthy perspective. I will say, I don't know that all teachers think this way, though. I mean, you I mean, I know you do, but I think maybe that's just like a sign of a good teacher that looks at it that way. Do you not do you not agree? I mean, you've worked with a lot of people in your career. So do you think that there are some teachers that maybe don't approach it that way?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Well, and I think we've all gone to school, right? That's that's a great commonality amongst every human, right? And well, I guess in the Western world, like we all have gone to school, and so we've all experienced good and bad teachers, certainly. And you had, you know, you ever have a teacher like this? I had a teacher in college that was like, well, no one will get an A. And you're like, Well, why am I even what? Isn't that a weird thing to say? Yes. How would you ever say no one will get an A?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Well, and it's just even that, like, I don't know, I appreciate a teacher that it looks at it like you do, like is open to new ideas and not just trying to like mold me into the very thing that they think I should think. You know what I mean? Like I was I remember one time off topic a little bit, but not really. Um, I was in college and I had wrote a paper on um why creationism, creation should be creationism. Is that right? Yeah, we should follow creationism. Yeah. So creation should also be taught alongside evolution in schools as a as two theories. And at the time I wasn't even a full-fledged believer. Like I actually came to Christ about two years later. God is very creative. But my professor, my English professor, was an atheist, like very much like very loud atheist, and he gave me a really high score on that paper. And he said he felt like a lot of my arguments were dubious. I remember that word. And yet he felt like I constructed the paper well, I argued it well, my evidence was there, even if he didn't always agree with it. And I really respected him that he could separate his own personal belief and grade me on the paper itself and my ability to argue what I felt was right. Well, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 3:30

And you've shared that. You've told me that example before, which I like, but I think that does speak to this very concept we want to investigate a little here today, which is what kind of learning posture do we take in our Christian walk? Right? And so I I share all of this because I think it's essential as we approach life, just in general, right? Like, hey, men and women listening, everything is advancing all the time. Oh the time. In fact, you think about something like AI, I I shared this with you recently. Right now, this is the worst version of AI we're ever gonna see because it continues to advance. I think about my sweet parents and and your sweet parents, Lisa, when we had children and we told my parents how basically everything they ever did, thought, or tried was wrong. Yes. And then I imagine when my children have children and what a fool I will be, right? Because this is an essential approach to life. We can always learn. Yes, but more than life, it's an essential part of our Christian walk. If we go about being Christians with a learning posture, that changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah, it is it's the way we stay humble. Honestly, and I do think taking a more of a learning approach in our faith, I think it's a mark of maturity, honestly. You know, I think of my younger self, just in general in life, was a little bit of a know-it-all, as my brother and sister. I think you think you're perfect. I think I heard that all of the time. Because I was, I was someone who really liked to follow the rules and liked to do things correctly. I was really, and I did want to argue my, you know, I wanted people to see my perspective, and I did tend to think that was the correct perspective. And so I would argue it. Um, but even in my faith, in my zeal, you know, being zealous for the Lord, I think I fell into a little bit of a legalistic, know-it-all, almost self-righteous place as I dug into my Bible and I tried to gain all this knowledge and I tried to learn so much that I did get a little bit of a big head about even my faith walk. And it was through several things that happened in my life that that God gently and kindly knocked me down a few notches and very clearly showed me that I had so much to learn. In fact, the more I got to know him, the more I realized I didn't know much at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

You know, the things you're describing too, like your your original aim in that, they're not bad things. Like praise the Lord that we want to read our Bibles, praise the Lord that we want to grow in knowledge and understanding of him. I'm so grateful for that. And I love like looking at myself, you know, five years ago, ten years ago. Like, this is awesome. It's awesome to see that growth and maturation. And that's another thing that that we have just that we take for granted. Like, we have the benefit as Christians to read the Bible in its full form. Don't we take that for granted sometimes? You know, it's like we get to read and reread these pages. We get to consider the initial reactions of the people we learn about. Like we're judging them. I mean, I'm like, look at David, look at, you know, whoever, and fill in the blank with whatever person. And we're like, oh, I never would have, they never should have. You know, we're scrutinizing them, aren't we? But we get to judge, we get to discern whether or not they honored God. And like some of these are cautionary tales for us, some are examples to follow. Don't we see that? Right. Like the pages of scripture are just beautiful for us, and we can learn from them. But do we approach our lives through that same lens? We can learn from every encounter, we can learn from every experience. We can, I can learn every time I'm teaching women and leading a Bible study or putting on an event. What is God moving and doing in me? Can I have a learning posture? Or have I already decided how it's gonna go and that's what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

That's so good. I will say, you know, we talked about this off mic, and for me, one of the most transformative places of my life where this has really helped taking this posture is in conflict. You know, when I'm facing a conflict, and especially with another believer, right, who I don't know loves the Lord and loves Jesus, and we are seeing things very differently. Sure. Um, whether it's a relational issue or whatever it is, um, or even like a scriptural issue, you know, and it's it's having that posture that I have blind spots. I have things I don't see in myself. Sure. Uh there are always things the Lord is gonna try and grow in me and and that I'm never gonna arrive at a place where I'm, you know, most things, it's there are certain things. Some things are right and wrong, right? We talked about that, but a lot of most things are a little bit more nuanced because God is such a personal God and He's doing something different in all of us all of the time. And sometimes He needs, I might need um grace in a situation where someone else needs discipline, or sometimes I might need like God's always working in our hearts in different ways. And so, although we want a script to follow, and we want like to understand that God's obviously God is doing this in your life. That's just not such a personal thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

We don't know, we don't know and let us like our mouths be closed when we want to make those suggestions of what God is doing. Wow, I think back to so long ago when Jill Curtin came on and talked to us about healing hope, the infertility ministry at our church and how often people misspeak, misrepresent God, share, you know, what infertility is a version of a punishment or whatever, you know, because it's like, oh, well, we want to be knowledgeable. We want to, I love to use that phrase of like a know-it-all. Stop wanting to know it all. You don't need to know it all. You weren't made to know it all. You were made to learn it all. You were made to grow and be transformed. And using that mindset, I do think shifts our perspective of God, each other, even like you said, conflict. Like we can really grow when we are aware of how little we actually know.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah, yeah. And I'm thinking even in like the story of Job and how how his friends another good example, you know, misspoke, you know, in the moment. Three of them. Yeah. And they all in an effort to try to encourage him or be truth tellers or whatever they were trying to support him, convict him, hold him accountable. All the things you could say they were trying to do, but of course, none of them understood the ways of God. And and none of us understand the ways of God either. We can try and come alongside people and and encourage them and point to scripture, but at the end of the day, it's knowing that there's a whole lot we don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

There's a whole lot we don't know, but there there are, make no mistake, there are things we need to know that we should know. Like we have to know the truth of who Jesus is. Like we have to know the gospel message. We have to know just clear and simple dictates in the Bible, right and wrong. True. You know, there's no uh substitute for just being in the word. Yes. You know, we're called to that. Yes. And so if we're getting together with folks and we're having these conversations or we're leading a study and we're ill-prepared, this is not okay. You know, there's no world where that's gonna be all right. But when we are in those positions, when we are given the huge responsibility and privilege of teaching, let us be humble, let us be open to correction, and let us consider that we may not have all the answers. I mean, there's just no way to in our finite brains know the infinite power of God, right? But this is like so many things, right, Lisa are both and. Yes. Because we do have to prepare, we do have to know. I mean, there's no excuse for that.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah, and learning isn't always about the answer.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

I love it. Say it again, homegirl. Say it again.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Learning is not always about the answer. Sometimes it's learning how to love someone well. You know, sometimes the answer actually is irrelevant. It's more how you behave in the process of supporting someone, or even like a brand new believer, what they can teach you, even though you've been walking with the Lord your whole life, to think that you can't see someone who is on fire for the Lord and not believe you can learn something from that. Well, that's not a right posture. Because God is, you know, even the word is alive and active. He's always doing something and revealing himself to us. That is a growing, you know, sanctification process in our lives. Like we should constantly be growing in new ways. And it's not always in knowledge, it's more in um an understanding of who God is and our place before him and our place before other people, you know?

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Well, I've shared with you so many times I love mentoring relationships because like I love working with my the girl I'm mentoring because she has the best questions. She stumps me sometimes. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

It's great. You're like the perfect person for her, though, because you're like, let me let me let me pull out my 15 resources and let's let's write a paper together.

unknown 12:28

You know what?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

It's so good. Like it's like just lay it on me. Why? Because then we learn together. Yeah, you know, there are times where I'm like, oh, such a good question. Yeah. And I'll I'll tell Lisa, I'm like, I'm in real time trying to like, okay, God, give me the words, like spirit, fill me, like let me not screw this up. Like, here's what I'm thinking. You know, and I'll like verbally process. Well, this happens in the Bible and this is the result. And because, right, that's a good challenge for us. It's a good challenge. Hey, so what if we don't know an answer? Nothing wrong with it. I tell that we uh in our women's ministry, we have tables, right? So if you're in a daytime study, we're broken off into tables, about seven to nine women, you know, per table, and we have a table leader. I always say that to new table leaders. I don't know is a perfectly acceptable answer. The worst thing you could do is wrong answer. The worst thing you could do is pontificate about a subject you know nothing about, right? Because you want to feel knowledgeable. Right. Let's grow together, let's learn. I'll say that I'm teaching a study and I'll be like, I am actually not sure. Does anybody know about this topic? I really haven't studied blank very much. Could somebody talk more about that? Anyone know? Are we not sure? You know, this is a great question for a pastor, or this is a great question to look up, but then look it up. Like you can't leave it there. Right. There is a responsibility for sure. A million percent. But I think at the end of the day here, when we talk about a learning posture, it's abandoning the notion of being right. Yes, lose that. It doesn't matter. Lisa, have you ever had any luck arguing someone into the kingdom of heaven? I mean, maybe you could, but probably not. You just sound like a jerk. Yeah. You lost why you even love this God that we serve when you're like just sticking your ground and holding your guns, and why, why we've lost it.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah. I mean, as we grow in our faith, God softens our hearts, you know. That that compassion and and and love and forgiveness, these are the the fruit of the spirit. Like this is love poured out of us from from the Lord. And if we find ourselves getting so caught up in knowledge and a hardening of our hearts, that should be a little bit of a red flag that that maybe we are need to take a step back.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah, well, and and it's not one or the other, and it's not one size fits all.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I think about a particular person who I've talked with a lot who struggles with a myriad of sin issues and faith issues. And there are times this person will say to me, like, Well, the Bible doesn't say that. And that's a time where you do have to offer some gentle correction. Like, it does. Can I show you? Like, right. It does say that. I'd like to share that with you. But I also try to sit back and say to this person often, I struggle with sin too. I don't want to affirm that, but I want to be honest about that. None of us has arrived, none of us has done it all. And so if we are fighting this fight with anger, with uh vitriolic statements that are like, Well, the scriptures taught this. I mean, if we're doing it in the wrong way, if we're weaponizing scripture, like we're that's not it. It's just not it.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, and we're all at different stages of our walk. Totally. So it's like even I have to think of that when I'm like looking at my children and and where they're at with their faith, and and I, you know, you want to, or even anything, right? You're like, you know better. Well, I know better. And I yet still I you know, I don't do the right thing. Or, you know, it's God's gonna have to work in their life. There's a reason why wisdom also comes with age, because it comes with experience, it does, you know, and then that's where the humility comes. That's where the I would never, and then whoops, you know, I would never, you know, or you know, I would handle the situation this way, and then suddenly you have the situation in your life, you're like, oh, you know, it's just an understanding that you only get from experiencing certain things. So understanding that too is like when we're wanting to project our opinion on someone else else's life, in especially in an area that we have ex we've never experienced ourselves. It's like, whoa, like check yourself.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

We don't know. We just we just don't know. Well, and you're bringing up great points, Lisa. Like she's talking about what this looks like, like how how do we model it? How do we do it wrong? That was kind of what I thought about today. Like I sent to Lisa, like, okay, so I'm thinking about examples of this. You know, I'm thinking about Titus, I'm thinking about first and second Timothy. And I'm dwelling on like where in the Bible does it kind of foster this learning posture. You know, like we love Titus too. We've we've taught on it before. That's the name of our women's ministry for mentoring, right? Because from the book of Titus. Oh my goodness, I did it again. Why do I refer to it learning posture?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

So we're talking about, if you don't know what we're talking about, one of our Grace episodes uh last season. I did it again. We were teaching on mentoring, and one of our mentorship program at church is called Titus II. Because it's chapter two. Because it's chapter two of the book of Titus. But when Allie refers to Titus, she tends to call it Titus II as if that's the name of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

I've just learned a lot. Anyway, sorry. But in that, you know, it's it's kind of like modeling, right? Women should the older women should advise the younger women in this way, the older men advise the younger men. You know, it just sets up that sort of again learning posture. Right. But then I was thinking about like the books of Timothy, right? Because Paul in the Bible is trying to teach Timothy here. This is like the background of what's happening. And so I actually landed on a part in First Timothy that I want to use today. But what is astounding, again, the way God works and the way the word works, it's not even at all what I went in to prove. What I wanted to show you was the way that Paul instructs Timothy and what he's teaching Timothy and how Timothy is going to grow in his knowledge of Paul with that learning posture. But guess what? I stumbled upon Paul's own learning posture and humility here. Isn't that cool? The teacher himself. Right. And so I want to share that with you because I thought, wow, what a terrific example. Obviously, we all know Jesus Christ is the penultimate example. We know that's who we aim to follow. But Paul has authored so many books in the New Testament, and he has much to teach us. And I love the way that he sets this up for his readers so that we can genuinely learn from his example. So I'm in 1 Timothy, I'm in chapter 1. I'm going to read verses 12 through 17, but I'm uh kind of break it down as we go. So verse 12. I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man. I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. Let's talk about that for a minute. Paul's referring to himself as Saul from Tarsus. Saul was a religious leader at the time who persecuted Christians, right? He went against them. Look how he describes himself. I was a violent man. I was a blasphemer. He wanted to shut this Jesus Christ thing down.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, he's mentioned in the the stoning of Stephen. He's named in that in the scriptures. Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

And he was not the original twelve. Right. Not at all. In fact, I love the transformation we see in him and how God just works so powerfully. And this is what he's referring to. Look at I shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. Let us see our own ignorance. Let us grow. We shouldn't look like the same version of ourselves. We should be evolving. We've talked about that many times. So now look at what he says in verse 14. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Jesus Christ. Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. Hear this, listeners, hear this. Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. Do you hear Paul here? There's nothing self-righteous there. You know, he Paul sometimes gets a bad rap. And there are times where it's like, oh, Paul, come on, give me a break. Because he's he seems so so above reproach, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

And you're like, man, he's almost like a little conceited at times. Yeah. But then hear him describing himself as the worst of all the sinners. That's beautiful, isn't it? This is how we should aim to see ourselves. Learning posture. I am the worst. And then he goes on at 16 to say, but for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Listeners, is he patient with you? I mean, I make the same mistakes over and over. And the patience that God shows me is how is he not giving up on me yet?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

You ever feel that? Yeah, and I thinking back to the fruit of the spirit is one of the fruit of the spirit is patience, which is also are we offering that patience to others as they learn and grow? So it's in Eternal about how God is working in our lives and growing us, but also like that outpouring of giving people that same patience.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Well, and make no mistake, Paul is growing constantly. Right? He's constantly in the word. He's constantly in prayer. He's constantly starting new ch churches, raising up new leaders. This wasn't by like a wish or osmosis, like make me more like Christ. This was a approach to grow. And so when we talk about this learning posture, look what he's doing. He is blossoming, he's flourishing, yet he still sees his sin. He's aware of it, he's learning from it, and he is going to call himself the worst of all the sinners. Do we approach our lives, our Christian walk like this?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Not always. No, I think we can get caught up in pride for sure. I think we all do if we're honest with ourselves. And that that does reveal itself often in our lack of patience and our lack of forgiveness, right? Like those worst versions of ourselves, getting ready for company. You know, all these things that we see in ourselves that can remind us, oh gosh, you know, I still have a ways to go. Right. We still need Jesus. Right? Like that's just it.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Well, and there's no end to what we can learn. Right. There's no end to what we can learn. How often have you had this? We're sitting in a church service and it's a story you've heard, or it's a it's a Christmas story, you know, it's something Easter, you know, you know it, you know it, you know it, you know it, and then something just hits different. It's like, oh, I didn't notice that before. Yeah. I don't remember that part before. You know, some of these stories, that that's the power of a story, right? It's a power of a story. We never tire of hearing it. You know, it's so good and it matters so much to us. And so when we think about like what can we learn from these verses, what can we learn from Paul's example? It's to lead with humility and to be open to God's leading. He wants to educate us, he wants to grow us. We are forever his students. Look at the example of Jesus, right? Jesus was a rabbi, Jesus was the teacher, and that's how he set up his disciples. Learn from me, grow from me, and then you go on and you're gonna teach the next generation, right? That's why I think teaching is just so important, right? It matters, and our approach to it matters because if we come off as the know-it-alls that are informed that we are the experts, we've kind of lost our audience immediately.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah. Yeah, I've been thinking of like Peter. I would never deny you, Lord. And then there he goes, denying them times three. You know, I mean, obviously Jesus came came back and redeemed that, you know, and and but what a learning moment for Peter, right? I would never do that. We all think that, but we all have blind spots, you know, we all have something to learn, and sometimes that learning does happen through failure, and we have to be aware of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Well, yeah, and we said this again. Now, this is like the second time I'm bringing it up. We talked about that desire for like a rule book, right? Like, can you just tell me what to do? You know, like we just we almost like we're drawn to that like legalistic idea. We are like just check the boxes. I said it before, we've said it a few times now, but that is not what our faith looks like. You know, you're you're describing what true faith looks like, Lisa. Like we can't just like win our way in. It it's not that we can't earn anything.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

No, and honestly, I think that is the whole like the difference between what the how the world sells something versus how like the gospel works. Like the gospel message is I'm a sinner in need of grace. Yes, and you know, the world is like, I'm awesome, and I worked my way here. You know, it's like I remember talking to one of um one of my girlfriends, had her daughter come and do an interview with me um for something she had to do for school. She attended a Christian school and she was a gymnast, and she was like, Well, how would you summarize the gospel? And I was thinking about her and I was thinking about like where she was at in her life, and I said, Okay, let's put it this way. You know how in gymnastics it's about the work. You work, you work, you work to get this medal, to get on the podium. Well, what the gospel teaches us is we start on the podium. You know, we start with the reward just by believing in Jesus. You know, that's it. You know, we get to start with um like the love of God is there. It's ours for the taking if we just receive it. We don't have to earn it, we don't have to work.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

That was such a beautiful metaphor.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah, I mean I just and she was like, oh, but that's that's just and it's so countercultural. It's different than our our our fleshly response, it's not what we're geared toward. And even in our faith walk, we can get so bent on doing things right, or like in my world, sometimes perfect, you know, the perfectionist in me, that I forget that God's ways are so much bigger than even my understanding of what right or perfection is. He can work through it all.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Well, and you know, I think when we look at Paul, Paul is very clearly sharing that salvation is for everyone. Yeah. That was your metaphor. I love that. We get to start on the podium. We've won. You know, glorify him, exalt him, because he takes us with us with him into the winner circle. We're already there.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

There's nothing that we can do, right? And and Paul's making that point. Like if Jesus can save Saul of Tarsus, the chief of sinners, he can save anybody. We we do admire Paul. I appreciate both his knowledge and the work and the effort he puts into building the church and all these things he does, coupled with his humility. I think it's a great example for us because he describes himself as the least of all the apostles and the least of all the saints. Do we and maybe we say it, but do we actually live it? Do we uh really feel this way? Do we model that? Is that our true behavior? I mean, those are some areas I think in our life that could use a little review. And and and so maybe this learning posture doesn't come naturally. Like I started with the story of I'd say it on the first day of school, and every year somebody's like, what do you what? What do you mean by that? Because it threw them, just the very idea that we can learn from someone lesser than us, we can learn from somebody younger than us, less I don't know, intellectual, knowledgeable, whatever. But that should be the way that we approach the kingdom of heaven. That should be the way that we approach our interactions with people. That should we I mean, that's the way we work and parent and all these things. Because then we're always gonna be growing closer to him, relying more on him.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yes. Yes, that's beautiful. Beautifully said.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Oh, well, thank you. Okay, so learning posture. I would land the plane by saying this. Always keep learning.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

I mean, is there any end to this? Never.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Right. I think that's the the thing we want to mention here. Is like that doesn't mean, okay, well then whatever. It's like, no, no, no, no. We're not saying like an open to learning. Yeah, just keep an open mind. No, no, no, no, no. We're not saying that. We're dig in your Bible, get in the word. You know, it's just a vast, like, it's just that there's no end to what God can teach us and the ways he can grow us and you know what he is doing in our hearts all of the time, if especially if we are focused on him and coming before him and asking him, Lord, what are you teaching me? What do you want to teach me? I don't understand what's going on right now, Lord. Reveal to me what you want me to know or what I should do next, or whatever the next whatever the prayer is.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Well, we had a cool instance with this um not too long ago. You know, it back in like winter spring, we had that Ruth study, and it was like I've done other Ruth studies, and then that one revealed different things. Yeah. Like even the same book of the Bible, even the same single Bible verse, right? Yes. Keep going, keep studying, keep learning. There's no end to what we can find out.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yeah, and to not be intimidated. I mean, when we talked about studying Revelation, you know, this year in the fall, I was very intimidated to lead that. But, you know, I really like went to the Lord with that, and I'm like, well, I'll just have to take a humble teaching posture. But also, why this is a part of the Bible. This is part of God's word. No, I shouldn't be afraid of it. I shouldn't be afraid to just go to it. The Lord will, you know, I believe the Lord is alive in my heart and is going to reveal things to me, and I sure have a lot to learn, and I'm not an expert, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't go for it. Right. You know, and and not try to learn it because I'm intimidated either, you know? So it's both.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

I agree. And I think that's a lesson that we've learned from the podcast. Yeah. Really? Like I see that because you know, we get ideas or suggestions or talk about this, talk about that, and it's like, us? Are we gonna are we gonna tackle that topic? But you're right, like we just have to go forward, we just have to go into it. And I suppose that would kind of like bring me to my live it out, you know. We share some things on here, like for our live it out, like tangible ways that we want to show what we're describing to you. Like, so how do I take a learning posture? Tito, um, I've read about this before, and I think it's a really sweet idea. I think one way I want to do this this week specifically, is I like to let my kids teach me about their Bible study lesson on Sunday or the Wana lesson or the reach lesson from youth group. I find I start by asking them to, and then I jump in and give more information, and then they like their eyes gloss over, and they're like, Oh, I guess you're gonna tell me about it. So I need to do better to have a learning posture with my children, and I want to do that this week by in one of those areas, either I wana, youth group, Sunday school, or maybe one for each of them so that it's different. Let them tell me about the lesson, what they learned, what what the Bible revealed to them. I thought that would be a really good way to show a learning posture.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Oh, that's good. Thanks. Yeah, I definitely I'm hearing from you like about being a good listener is a is a good way to have a learning posture. You know what? Yes, I suppose that is very true. Because I do always I'm thinking through like conversations with my daughters and how often they just sit to talk to me, and I'm like, so what I think you should do is my daughter actually said to me this past week, Mom, I didn't want you to do that, I just wanted to tell you. Like, I just wanted to tell you that I had a like it was actually about like she had a couple nights where she had a hard time sleeping, and so I had all opinions about her sleep schedule. She's like, I just was telling you that I was tired, you know, it's like uh, you know, not that I was gonna learn anything in that moment, but I did learn something there. It's like she just wanted someone to talk to, and I was all about teaching. So, okay. Um, I think without stealing yours, and I'm kind of yeah, I know I always do this. I think I'm gonna start my day out. You know, I always like to do this. I feel like I've used this before, but it's helpful like to pray about it. Like, so just to go to the Lord and say, Okay, God, what are you going to teach me today? My heart is open to being corrected, my heart is open to gaining new information, my heart is open to growing in whatever way you want to grow me.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

It's a scary prayer though, because I don't know what he's gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

I was just gonna say that knocking the door will be open, right? If we see him, we will find him. Yeah, what do they say?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Never pay for pray for patience because then you never know what the Lord's gonna put in your plan your path. But um, because I do think it's a scary prayer, but I do know that there's so much that I can gain from asking him to do this work in my heart, as opposed to me trying to have a learning pasture. Right. Like I can't will myself into a learning pasture. It's gotta be through the Lord if it's going to actually bear fruit.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

I love everything that you're saying. Really good. And also, incidentally, I have to mention that I find Lisa to be one of the greatest listeners on the planet. My daughters might not agree, but thank you for saying that. Well, we have a different relationship, certainly. This is true. And and that's I don't know, that goes back to this, right? Like, yes, we need to learn, but we're also there are truths.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Yeah, and I think it's a it's a shift in season for me too, recognizing that my children are turning into adults. So that's a little bit of a shift in my brain.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Boo that seriously. I kind of want to boo that.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I know, but it's also it's good. It's good, and it really is humbling to me about like my relationship with them and where you know what our relationship should look like now. You know, not that I'm not there for them, but maybe it's a little less, it's more relational and less discipling. Yeah, I mean not as much instructional. Instructional, maybe is a better word. I'm always discipling, but yeah. So that's that's a good word for me.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

That's tricky. Okay. Let's let's bring this all to God. So much, so much that is good that uh we want to pray over. Lord, I begin by thanking you for instructing us. Thank you for the Bible. We are continually learning from you. We're continually learning from Jesus. The Spirit indwells us and leads our steps, Lord. Thank you for that. You knew how instrumental teaching us would be. And we're grateful, God. Break down our walls, break down our desire for knowledge. Help us fight cultural norms, Lord, because we are in a world where we are supposed to be experts. We're in a digital age where we Google everything, and then that is our God. And Lord, let it not be so. Let our truth rest in you. Let our hearts be open to others. Let us consider what Jesus would do when faced with difficult circumstances. Not be mean or judgmental or hurtful. Be loving and kind and inquisitive, Lord. Fill us with a curiosity, fill us with a desire for you so that we can be continually learning. Like Paul, I too am the worst of these. Let me see my sin clearly. Let me not wash it away or make myself better than I am, God. But in my weakness, I can see your strength. In my humility, I can see your omniscience, Lord. Please help us all to view you in your right glory. In your heavenly name I pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Amen. Listeners, let's take a learning posture this week as we grow closer to the Lord. He alone is our salad crown.