Episode 62: Bench Prayers

This week on the pod, we are talking with local author and speaker Andi Rispens. As a Bible teacher and student, Andi has always had a passion for learning about God and studying His Word. However, it was a simple question posed to her during a class on spiritual formation that ultimately led her to a deeper, more honest relationship with God. (Spoiler alert: It all had to do with prayer!) Tune in to this week’s episode, “Bench Prayers,” to hear Lisa ask Andi about the “big question” she was asked, why it prompted her to write an entire book, and a refreshing look at how we can approach God in prayer.

Links:

Andi Rispens:  https://andirispens.com/

Get Over Yourself by Andi Rispens:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DQF5QZ9C?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_A5SPAEQ4K1E0E9VRXXRG&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_A5SPAEQ4K1E0E9VRXXRG&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_A5SPAEQ4K1E0E9VRXXRG&peakEvent=5&dealEvent=0&skipTwisterOG=1&bestFormat=true

For His Glory Retreat: 

https://newlifenewlenox.churchcenter.com/registrations/events/2933713?fbclid=IwY2xjawNCk81leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETEzYWE4clVaOG1iWjdTdDNwAR5eOj_vaH6H6TxHdJcGn7j0KFdBS1iklcFJRYl_p1Vx5A19RoLSRC5L2Npb4Q_aem_Q_F4Oz5CE_nIpMhaS0I52Q

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello, and welcome to the Her Salad Ground Podcast. I'm Lisa Bonima, and today we have a special guest I can't wait for you to meet. Let's get started. Okay, listeners. Today I have someone special with me. It's a local author and an amazing woman of faith who also happens to be my friend and my partner in ministry, Andy Rispens. Welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Well, thank you, Miss Lisa. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I'm so excited. It's a long time coming. We've actually quoted your book on this podcast before. So I planted the seed a while ago, actually. So I'm glad you're here. So Andy, let me just give you a little bit of a background on how Andy and I met. We first met back in 2023. We decided, right? That was the year. When she invited me to speak at a retreat that she was creating for her church. Now as she was the women's ministry director at the time at her church, and she was you every year you created these retreats, right? Right. That was like our fourth one. Yep. That was our annual retreat, right? Women's retreat. And typically you kind of were the main, like you taught most of the sessions.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

You had a couple people come here and they Yeah, I would partner up and and kind of take on half the work and then get one or two other speakers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah. So she invited me to come speak. And we just like in creating the content for that, just instantly became friends. And um, and the more time we spent together, the more we just felt this nudge from God that we were supposed to both expand like our speaking and writing ministries individually, but also like to team up and to maybe do this thing together. We actually are doing that very same retreat um coming up this fall at New Life Church and New Lennox to give a little plug.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, a plug would be, yeah. I love a good plug. Um no, we get to do the same retreat again, but we've had another year to pray about it. Yes. Um, and you would think that we would just do the exact same material the exact same way. But of course, knowing you and knowing me, we've edited and gone through it again and and and refreshed it, and it's gonna be it's gonna be pretty good. And it's gonna be fun. I'm excited. We're every time, every time we get together, it's like, whoo!

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, well, we did this retreat, it was in Indiana, which is where you're from, right? And now we get to bring it to Illinois.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Look at us. I know. To our hometowns.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I know our hometowns, right? So, Annie, can you before we get started, can you tell us more about you? I mean, that was like just like a basic um overview of how you and I met, but tell us more about you specifically, what you're doing, your family, what your ministry um efforts are right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Okay, well, I am a human that lives in Cedar Lake, Indiana. Uh, I have been married for 14 years to a cute boy named Brock, and I have two boys that are 12 and 10 and a half, and every bit of boy that you can think of, they like hunting and fishing and driving each other crazy and and all the things. Um so yeah, I've been a stay-at-home mom since they were born, which has been really cool. Um, but I did go back to um work for for a short period of time at my um previous church, and I was the adult discipleship leader there for a couple years, and and that was about halfway into doing those retreats. So um it was just something that started where the first year we um did a retreat where women would come and give their testimony, and then I I would do a teaching, another woman would do a teaching, and and it became a a conference, a retreat. It was just a one-day thing. So, as my husband's always like, you call it a retreat, but you're only retreating for like half a day. Semantics. I know, but it's like you don't want to call it a conference, that sounds boring. So it's like, what do you call it? So we just kind of went into that territory. So um, and then ministry, I I've I've been in women's ministry for about 10 years now. Um, and it, you know, started as me gathering women in my home, friends of mine that were Christians. And then it was okay, let's do it in the context of a church at a at a night, you know, at night we would do all kinds of different studies, and then it became, you know, I started writing a couple different things, and then it became a tree, and then it just became this, you know, calling that became what it is today. So now it's writing and and speaking at you know, mom's groups and local churches and doing these retreats and just like uh whatever comes next, you know what I mean? So um tried to balance the whole, you know, God calls you to your family and then calls you to minister to women, and it's like, how does that all play out? So that's kind of the daily grind of um, you know, what's next. And she has chickens. I have a lot of chickens. I mean, you have chickens and lots of dogs. I was trying to think of how many chickens I have, and I I don't actually know.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

I feel like that's an important thing for listeners to understand about you. There's a special kind of person that has chickens.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Well, I mean, we like the pretty chickens. I picked the chickens based on the color of their eggs. I don't know if that makes me like I oh, you're just gonna be. Well, I do understand this because they're pretty then. Because they're pretty. I I have some that are lavender, some that are teal, and then light brown and dark brown. And then why would I they were white ones? I was like, I don't want a white egg and get that from the store. That's dumb. So I get all the cool looking eggs.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

I've never seen a I feel like I need to get some eggs from you.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I know. I don't know why I didn't bring you eggs, but I do have eggs, and I have too many ch I I have too many chickens and not too many dogs, but we do love dogs too. You have a lot of dogs. I feel like three is a lot. There's a lot of dogs. One lives inside, a mini poodle that is every bit of mini poodle that you can imagine. I mean, she's just she's a little teddy bear. Um, and then two outside German shepherds. So yeah. Yeah. That make me nervous when I pull up to your house. I know, and then they love you to death.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

And then I'm like, they're gonna, I'm gonna hit them. It's terrifying. And they but they don't, they move around the car and they're fine. Yeah, they're very sweet. Very sweet. You're just a very relaxed person, and I just very much appreciate that about you. Well, thank you. Thank you, thank you. So we wanted to have Andy on the pod, not just because she has chickens, she has more to offer than just her chicken knowledge, although it is, it's that's important. Um, she actually wrote a book, a whole book. Um, so she is officially an author, and we are gonna talk about the book. Um, but she's also just but we're not gonna go there just yet. I just want to talk about your main teaching that really just I mean, I've learned a lot from you over the years. Like you are just a wealth of Bible knowledge, you're just very wise beyond your years, and um, I just I've learned a lot from you. And your teaching on prayer like was a game changer for me. It was just really reframed the idea of what it is, what it could be, what it should be. And I'm saying that loosely because we're gonna get into that. Right. Um, so tell me that topic in particular. I know from being friends with you that that's also something you're very passionate about. So tell me how that began to stir in your heart.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

That is a great question and uh a long answer, but um, I'll try to be brief. I it kind of started. I went back to school a few years back for um Bible exposition. My undergrad is in criminal justice, so you can see the loop, how how we got there. Right. Kind of a jump there. I don't think I knew that. I know. I started back into school in a in a like a master's in Christian apologetics program, and then I got a couple classes in, and I was like, I just was more drawn to the Bible exposition portion, which is Bible interpretation, is uh is all that really means.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

About and I'm going at like a snail's pace, just you know, a a class or two at a time. Not even in a class right now, because when you write a book, apparently that takes up some of your time. It takes a little time. Yeah, a little bit. So um there was, it was probably two years ago, I was in a class called Spiritual Formation, and I was was at the place where I was taking all these classes on, you know, gen a survey of Genesis through Malachi and then doing the New Testament and all these like really heavy, like nerdy Bible classes, theology and and that sort of thing. And that's what I felt like school was supposed to be for somebody that was going to be teaching the Bible. And so you are supposed to take this spiritual formation class. There's actually three of them that I was supposed to take, and I kept putting them off because that was like spiritual formation. This is just silly. I don't need this stuff. I need the knowledge, I need the the the the head knowledge, right? And um, so of course, God had something else in store for me when I when I got into this course, and and I started taking this course called spiritual formation, and the professor would send us on these not prayer walks. I turned them into prayer walks because I can't sit and pray for an hour. It was just I was like, you need to do to do. I was staring at stuff, my dogs would bother me, and I'm like, I need to move. Something about moving my body. So I started turning them into prayer walks, but it was it was an hour. I had to spend an hour in prayer every week and then write about it. So this was part of your class. This was part of the class, a big part of the class.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

And so to to do this, it was it was like guided prayer, though. So I would get like four prayer paragraphs of stuff I was supposed to pray about and then go pray about it, and then come back and write about it. And it was really incredibly uncomfortable in the beginning. I mean, I remember the first time I made it 40 minutes, and then I was like, okay, now what am I supposed to do the rest of the time? You know what I mean? Because I had spent my, I don't know, adult Christian life kind of surrounding myself with prayer warriors. You know, those people that are gifted in prayer, and you know that they're gifted in prayer because they've taken the spiritual disciplines test or the spiritual, you know, what do you call that thing? The um spiritual gifts test. The spiritual gifts, yeah. And they would find out they're gifted in prayer, and you knew they were good at prayer, and you surround yourself with them, and you're like, good, they're taking care of it. I'll talk to God all day long. But I just didn't lean into that. I I don't know, there's something, there was just this thing missing from my spiritual life. And so um prayer wasn't the top priority. I think the Bible knowledge was um the things I was discovering. Because when I would write, I mean, you're a writer and you know when you're writing about something spiritual, the Holy Spirit's moving in, and you're like, okay, we're doing good. Like, we're jiving, you know. I I'm I'm getting some some some good solid material. And so like I thought it was handled. And then I go on these prayer walks and I come back and I was like slowly becoming this different person. And slowly he was he was in these areas of my life that I guess I hadn't really invited him into before. And I started to see my prayer life change, and it it just became this whole other thing. And um my professor started saying certain things that were really like uncovering things inside of me that I was like, I can't believe he just said that out loud. So it it prayer wasn't a priority, and then it became the only priority when it came to my spiritual life. It just unearthed everything.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Well, yeah, I do think that that feels true probably for most people. I mean, we all know that prayer is supposed to be like an important part of our Christian walk. So I guess my question for you then, because of your experience, like, why do you think so many of us feel like we're doing it wrong or falling short? Like, I think I mean, I know I've said it. Like, I need to work on my prayer life. I mean, I think I literally said it in a last season of our podcast was like, I feel God calling to for me to work on my prayer life. Like, why do you think so many of us feel like we're falling short?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Well, I and and that was the question that prompted the entire book. It was, you know, he my professor started saying things that were like, you know, that this is the the question I'm gonna read that prompted the entire book. He said, the answer to a poor prayer life is not to pray more, it's to find out why you don't have the desire to pray. And that was when I like so good. Say it again. The answer to a poor prayer life is not to pray more, it's to find out why you don't have the desire to pray. And that is when like I mean, it's like I wanted to put something over my head and like hide because I was like, I can't how does he know this? How does he know that I don't have a huge desire to spend a lot of time in prayer? Like, who told him this?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

It's like I have to, not a like I have to do this if I'm a Christian. But I actually don't.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Because in the mind you're like, God knows everything. Why do I have to tell him? Like, shouldn't he just invite himself into all the areas of my life? And it was like this, I was just missing this thing. And so um I I remember like in the midst of this class, I I ran into in one weekend, I ran into three women that said, I I just I uh I'm really working on my prayer life. And I'm like, and I and I was going through these things and discovering things in this class, and I was like, Well, what do you even mean? You're working on your prayer life. Like, what are you doing to work on it? Like, are you just praying more? And and I think that's what it it was. And then over the course of the next few months, God was starting to show me different, like he has to dumb things down for me. I don't know if he does this with you, but especially when I'm gonna go teach on it, I like to have like tangible things I can see. And so he he shows me these things, and sometimes they're kind of cheesy, but this time it was it was something I I started to picture in my brain. Um, if I could share it. It's kind of a okay. I love it. I love a good visual. A good visual. So I I talk about these two different, like if you picture two sides of a room for me, okay? One has this dark cold metal chair, you know, the ones that are kind of rackety. Like the one I feel like you're sitting at right now. No, I I'm very comfortable. My my kitchen chairs are actually metal. All right, well. Put a butt pad on there or something. I know we probably should. So if you picture these two sides of a room, talking with my hands and knocking things over, um, this cold metal chair is like the one that's kind of rackety on the floor that you just are kind of like, okay. Um, and then you look at the other side of the room and you see this pretty bench. Like you would get at home goods with like, I don't know, blanket over there and and some pillows, and you know, your favorite cup of coffee, and the little dunkers from Trader Joe's, those, those cute little that's just my favorite little treat. Um, a little chocolate chip cookie, and you can put your feet up, and it's just like a comfortable place. Like you'd go sit with your best friend. So you've got this bench over here, and then you've got this rackety metal chair. And I feel like the the rackety metal chair is the place that we tend to go in our hearts when we pray and we're just saying like the things we feel like we're supposed to be saying. So we sit in this metal chair and we're like, all right, Lord, I am anxious. Please take away my anxiety. Cool. Okay, and then you feel less anxious the next day. Lord, thank you for taking away my anxiety. Okay, is that is there anything wrong with that? No. But what if you like headed over to this comfortable little bench and sat there for a while and decided to say, like, Lord, what is going on in my heart that I'm so anxious? Like, what is causing this? Like, why am I not trusting you in this situation? Why am I trying to can maintain that control? And then we just start asking God questions about our own situation, about our heart. And it's it's different than going sitting in this cold metal chair because when when when we ask ourselves, like when we say, I I I want to spend more time in prayer, it's like we go over this metal chair and we just start praying more like polite prayers. Like, Lord, please and thank you, please and thank you, or God, can you do this? Okay, cool, good talk. Like it's just yeah, like it's just checking it off our yeah, and if we spend more time there, is the relationship gonna go any deeper? No, because same way when you come home from work or you come home from your day and you're talking to your husband about all the logistics of your day, but you don't get any further than that, you're just trading information and you become roommates. Like that happens too. Trading information, yeah, trading information, yeah. Like, and you're telling your husband, here's my honey to-do list, I want you to get this done for me, and I need this done, and then we're gonna just trade information. Then what happens? What happens in a marriage like that? Yeah, it's like a business transaction, it becomes a business transaction, and yeah, but we do this with God, yeah. And so true. And it's like we can invite him to all these different situations, but then and in in the talk that we're we're talking about the retreat, I go into a different kind of prayer. I call those polite prayers and that cold metal chair. But there's there's just this middle ground too, where we can, you know, I I like to call them company prayers. Like, what do you do when you have company over? You clean you like clean up, you tie up around the house, yeah. You you put off this person that you're not actually, you know, you put regular clothes on your kids.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

They're nice, you're nice, you're friendly.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

You're friendly, and opened your home, but you're not gonna show them your junk drawer. You're not gonna do so so you've got this middle ground between this cold metal chair and this and this bench. And this middle ground is like this company prayers like you're you're you're inviting someone into your space, but you're still pretty guarded. Yeah, you're still you're editing. You're editing, and you're you're maybe perhaps cleaning up yourself before you enter into this relationship. So it's like in this middle ground of prayer, if this makes sense, you're um you're cleaning up your prayers before you take them to God. So you're saying, hey Lord, I I would like you to come into my marriage and and um, you know, we're we're not doing well, but you're not saying those things like, God, I'm being so selfish right now, and I don't want to, I don't want to give any part of like I want to win. I'm gonna win this one. I'm not you're not getting into the nitty-gritty of your own sin, your own struggles. You're just kind of, you know, keeping it at arm's length, but you know, you're inviting him in, like, Lord, come into this situation, but I don't want you to do too much there. I still want to maintain some control.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

And clearly I'm the one who's right.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Like it's the other person that's the problem. So fix that, wouldn't you, Lord?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So you've got that these polite prayers over here, you've got these company prayers, and the company's coming over. I'm still keeping them at arm's length. And and if you think about it, like how far can that relationship go if there's still company? Like, is there a difference when you have friends over that you're comfortable with or family over that someone else calls you and you're like, I could take this phone call because these are my people, like they don't care.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

It's different than company. Like, company comes over, it's like, oh, I have company over. Um, I I won't, I'll leave my phone in there. Everything, you know, everything's still pretty proper.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

There's a difference than if like your people are over and you're sitting on a bench with them. So let's go, let's okay, take a little walk over to the bench. Then then I like to call these bench prayers because this is the place that you'll go with your best friend for 45 minutes and you will bear your soul and you will say ugly things, and you will tell them where the dead bodies are and all those different things. Too far. Uh and this is a place that not only are you opening up yourself, but it's a place that you like to go to.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

More than the cold metal chair, more than the being proper with your polite friends. This is this is a place that you desire to go to. And then when things happen in life, you you just that's the first place you go to, not not because it's because God has all the power and you need him, but because he's the one who has your heart. He's the one who has your attention and and he's the one who can enact change. So this is where like heart transformation takes place. That's that's what this kind of prayer is. It's where you're asking, God, I don't want to just, I don't want you to take away my anxiety, Lord. I want to become a person who's not anxious. I want to become a person who is not rattled. I want to become a person who is not fearful. And that doesn't take one little tiny prayer on a cold metal chair. That becomes, that takes time. That takes hours of of deep prayer. Like, God, what is going on in my heart? Why am I fearful? Why am I anxious? All those different things. And you're just asking questions day after day, time after time, and and you start to see those, those answers trickle throughout your day, and and things start to come alive, and the scriptures start to come alive, and people start to say things, and you're like, wait a second, I know why you're saying that, because I asked God about that this morning. So this the transformation happens over here on this bench where you're comfortable and you start to desire that time with God. And that's what changed for me was I wasn't just spending more time going through the motions. I started to really fall in love with that time with with Christ.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

I I I love the idea, like that reframing of it all. Because, you know, I'm thinking here, going back to my initial question to you was like, it's like, what does, you know, we all need to work on our prayer life. So what would you say, knowing what you know now, what would you say is like a successful or a healthy prayer life? What does that even look like?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

You would think that there isn't an answer to that, but to me, that is a prayer life that you enjoy, a relationship that you enjoy, time away that you enjoy. And that in turn becomes a relationship with Christ that you enjoy. That you the first thing that you do when something hits is like, you want to tell Jesus, you know? You don't want to tell your best friend. You want to tell your best friend. You want to tell him whoever, yeah. When something goes wrong, you're like, okay, well, I know. I know who to go to with this. I know what to do. And and and you desire that time with him.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

I really appreciate that idea of like we have to be honest with ourselves. Like if we don't like to do it, right? Like I think that's what I would ask you then. If someone's listening to this and being like, okay, so I actually don't really enjoy praying. It's not something I want to do at all. So what do I do now?

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Questions. That's the only word that comes to my mind is asking God questions and saying, Lord, why don't I have a desire to pray? Why am I not enjoying this time with you? Can you show me what is going on in my heart that I am my heart is cold? And you know, there are times in the Bible where God hardened people's hearts for certain reasons. And I'm not saying that's what's happening, but Lord, please unharden my heart. Like, God, what I mean, like there's nothing off the table when it comes to prayer. So if you don't have the desire to pray, tell him you don't have desire to pray. And I and I think that's what became pretty alive with me in my heart that I can say whatever. Like He knows anyway. Yeah, God, I'm bored with this time in my prayer. Yeah. Okay, get up, move your body and go back to the world.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

I'm getting distracted, thinking about what I'm wearing to the whatever thing I'm going to tonight instead of praying to you, Lord. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

If you don't have a desire to pray, if you're not enjoying that, just tell him. Yeah. And and I think that that is, you know, we we can ask him, like, change my desire to pray, Lord. Change my desire to have this time with you. And I don't know what he's gonna do, but he'll do something.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

And why do you think we don't do that naturally? What do you think it is about that type of prayer that feels so like revolutionary? You know, why is this not our natural instinct to have this kind of conversations with God?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I think because it's risky. Because this is different than um, you know, Lord, heal this person I love. This is Lord, I'm asking you to actually change something in me, and that's vulnerable and it's uh intimate, and it's that's a good word. Yeah, I I think it but I but I do think heart change is risky, and it's this like you use the term surrender a lot, and I think it's a learned surrender. It's uh teaching, it's God doing change like you can open up yourself to heart change, but but like he has to teach it, he has to start the process, and we have to go through the motions. And um, learned surrender is a difficult thing. Um and the reward doesn't seem to be there in our minds. Like, if I surrender all of this, that means I'm not in control, like there's no reward in our minds because it's it's this unknown place, and then when you finally get there, you're like, Oh, I get it. I I get what you're what you were doing there, Lord, but that's why we have to kind of not forget all the things God has done for us in the past, that reflection portion. Yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Okay, I do want to talk about the actual book, which listeners, I have in my hands. First of all, it's beautiful. Like cover it for itself, it's so pretty. Shout out to our girl Bethany, Bethany Porter. Yes, I know I would just know her as Bethany, Bethany Porter, but yeah, she designed it. Shout out to her. It's beautiful. But I have read the book cover to cover, and it is so good. I I I just I love it for so many reasons. Um, it's so well written, it's so um, it's engaging, and but also like it it's deep, and there's like story in there, but there's also Bible teaching, and you challenge us, and the title is Get Over Yourself. Pray Like Your Life Depends on It, because it does. I love the title too. I mean, it's just so good. I mean, I'm your friend, totally biased, but also a reader and a fan.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Well, I can't say that the editor I had loved the title at all. No, no, she hated it. That's because I wasn't your editor. Yeah, that's because I know, yeah. No, and and she did an excellent job and she honored my voice, and she was incredible. But she's like, let's maybe take a second look at the title, and it just kept and and then after a couple conversations, she's like, All right, that's your title. I guess that's what God's showing you. Um, but you know, I you want this to be something someone gives to another person. Giving someone a book that says get over yourself is a little like, you know. Yes. Um, but it became such a I mean, it started out as, you know, I was writing devotions and posting them on a Facebook group or or whatnot. And and I've never been a big fan of the devotional construct just because I thought most people made it about themselves or and this is not, I'm not saying every devotion out there is like that, but a lot of times it can be very um non-biblical or like fluffy, fluffy or doesn't go deep. And I was just like, ugh, you know, and you you know, you you you're like, I should be reading the Bible. And so, like, some of them will send you to the Bible and and some of them get very deep. Like, I know we do it one, the same one together, and it's awesome. And it's Oswald Chambers, old school. But yeah, Paul David Sherp has a good one. There's there's devotions out there I like, but I just I was like, why am I writing these? Because I don't even like this construct. And what I started to learn was that women that I was serving in ministry just were used to it, and they they liked that setup, and they were in that motion in the morning. And instead of like taking a woman's hand and dragging her to where I think she needs to be spiritually, it was this moment of like meeting her where she was, yeah, and and what she desired and what was comfortable for her. And I think there is a way to for it to go deeper when the Holy Spirit's involved, and and so that's what the goal of these devotions were is to go deeper in that five or seven minutes. And so what I started doing was going through a lot of teachings I had done and a lot of um talks I had done and just taking them apart and like, what's the main idea here? And then putting that into a devotional and into a devotion, and and it became this my goodness, it was like staring at 40 different devotions that weren't connected that I'd written over three years, and suddenly they started coming together. You know, I thought I could slap a cover on them and call it a day, but they really started coming together into different categories. Like, only God, it was such a weird year of oh, putting it all together, but they started to organize themselves into these seven categories, and then those seven categories started to organize themselves into like a pattern, and they started to become like a pattern of discipleship. It was just the craziest thing, and so um it and the pattern kind of goes into an order of of how you come into really deeper prayer, and that is believing in God's perfect providence, deciding to let him lead, you seek his word, um, pray like your life depends on it, and then we get into um living a life that honors him, creating boundaries, that sort of thing, um, gratitude, and then ultimately sharing your faith. So it's this whole path that you go through in the devotional construct with teachings involved. And it was it's really like my heart's life's you know, like I don't know, work, I guess you would say, but um it's it's something that I'm I'm tickled, I guess you would say, that the Lord allowed me to um that's an Andy word. That's an that's a R-circled and trademarked handy word.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

I well, it's I'm gonna give some just an overview of what it looks like. So it's just it's a devotional that is broken up into seven weeks, and within each week are seven days, right? And it is constructed around these ideas of believe, decide, seek, pray, live, praise, and share. And this is not a book to like devour in a weekend. Like that is not your intent. No, that is not the design, and I don't know how you could do it. Yeah, I don't know either. You have done a beautiful job of really like, like you said, cut meeting women where they're at and pointing them to the Lord and pointing them to the word. And you're just kind of getting the getting the ball rolling with what you know your God has laid on your heart. But I feel like your intention really feels, I mean, I feel that in your words. I feel like I instantly could relate, and then you pushed me a little bit and challenged me to go even deeper, and then then to go even deeper. Because the way she has it set up is she does a wonderful like little write-up, and then she has these prayer points. Can you talk about those? Those might be my favorite parts of the book because it's it puts to words you're taking what you've taught us, and then you're giving us prompts to like go to the Lord with the lesson you've taught us, which of course is the lesson in and of itself. It's kind of genius. Like you're making us apply on the spot what you're trying to tell us, and then letting the Lord finish the lesson during the prayer time, right? I mean, is that kind of what you're Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah. It's those questions. There's there's power in these questions when we ask them to God. Like a book can do nothing to change your heart. Like you can read that book all day long, and it can go one out in one ear, out the other. Um prayer in in some sense can be kind of a prayer doesn't, yeah, we hear a lot. Prayer changes things. All the like prayer is is words, but God is the one who changes things. He is the one that comes in and and and does this heart transformation. So a book cannot this book you could go buy a hundred copies, but it's not gonna do anything to change it. What the change comes when God enacts change in our heart. So, what those prayer points do is point you to the one with the power to do something about it. Because I can't change your heart. I mean, I can try all day long. I can but it all I'm gonna do is point you to the one who can do the change. Yeah. And that's what those prayer points, that's the intention behind them.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

So good. And then even after the prayer point, she has a dig deeper portion where then she challenges you to go even more, like go even deeper, like in terms of whether it's reading a Bible verse or writing something out or memorizing something, like you really push us. But it's only like in a couple pages. Like, this is not, I mean, it's just pack it all in, you know. Yeah, but it's so good, and it's just like it's a great balance of like meat and heart, and but it's very manageable. Like I feel like you can chew on it all day without fe putting, but you feel like it's engaging enough that I'm like, I want to do it, you know, not putting it off.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It's not two hours a day, right? Um, but you can take it with the I I like writing the prayer points. I mean, I have a companion journal that I'm um Bethany and I are putting out soon. Um, it's it's like a smaller notebook, a journal that you can write the prayer points in and then and then journal out what God says because you're not just asking questions, you're kind of wanting some answers from God too. Um, but I like to write them out on an index card and go for a walk and pray it out. And every single time I do it, it's just relevant to that day. Whatever I'm facing, um, I'm asking these questions to God and just trying to do my best to shut up long enough to listen to him. Always the challenge.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

So we did have, you know, part of our podcast is we always have scripture. We always wanted to go to scripture. And I know that we could go, I mean, you have it all through your book, but we were you're specifically in talking about the bench prayers, I think, was like it was week four, day one. Um, you had pointed us to a scripture that you felt you wanted to share with us today. Do you want to read through that?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Yeah, this is in Ephesians. Ephesians four, correct? Four. I only put the verses on. Um, and it starts in verse 22, but um it's it's actually gotta have a little context here. This is um actually described as Paul's testimony to the church of in um Ephesus, where it's what a new life in Christ is. And so prior to this verses, he's he's talking about the Gentiles in verses 17 through 21. This is chapter four. Um, and the Gentiles I would kind of compare to the world today, you know, just the world, quote unquote. Um, those outside influences that tend to lead us away from Christ. And then he goes into verse 21, he talks about the truth. He starts off this prior to the scripture. He says, the truth is in Jesus. Well, that's a pretty good place to start, right? And then verse 22 might sound familiar to some of you. It says, To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life, and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed through the spirit in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. So I include this verse because this is the heart behind everything I'm talking about. This kind of prayer is specific to heart change, and this is putting on your new self. Like when we become Christians, we are to, you know, take off our old self. We are to rid ourselves of that worldly, these worldly things, but it takes time. I mean, it takes effort, it takes prayer, it takes um being willing to give up part of ourselves and being being willing to surrender areas of our heart and areas of our life and and the things that we're doing on a daily basis. It it does require the work is in that relationship with Christ where He can do a work in our heart. And so the these verses just kind of remind us that oh, wait, if I'm still living in the world doing the world's things, have I put on that new self? If not, then those are some areas I need to invite Christ into. So that these verses are just that stark reminder that if we really want to pray that prayer, like, Lord, I want to be more like you, okay, then I need to invite you into certain areas that you're not into yet.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

I mean, it's like any relationship. You know, anyone, any whether it's a marriage or a friendship or even just your kids, you have to communicate. You have to talk to each other if you want to have a deep, strong, healthy relationship. And obviously the same is true with God, and He's our most important relationship. So it's interesting how we tend to compartmentalize prayer as just yet another spiritual discipline when it's really so much more than that. And I think you're you've really done an amazing job of um opening my heart and my mind to that, and it's really made a big difference for me, and I know it's made a big difference for you. What would you say if you could put into words as we wrap up here? Like, how has this like realization and and all the things God has revealed to you to the point where you could write a whole book about it? How has this had a personal impact on you?

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Oh girl, like it's in no way, shape, or form am I any kind of expert on prayer. Like, this is just like my learning experience. And like, even recently, I had a rough summer and just going through like this weekend, I had the whole house to myself for like two days, which was crazy without kids and a husband. Like, they were gone for the weekend. And I hadn't like really gone deep on a prayer walk. Like, I'm gone, but I I just been really distracted with certain things going on in life, and like I was failing at my own like relationship with Christ. I was really struggling and just man, it it I was back on track with with he's so gracious to us. Yeah, and I was just back on track like that, like at the drop of a hat, like I I just met him out there and he was like, Hey, hey girl, like how you been?

SPEAKER_01 37:41

I've been on the bench the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I'm just waiting for me to come on over. And I'm like, I was I was trying to get there, but I just kept getting distracted. Like, and and and this is just honesty, like, but knowing that in in previous seasons of life, that would have brought me to a place of shame quickly. Yeah, and it it didn't this time, and and it became it's just this when I could sit down on that bench, you know, metaphorically, it's this weight off my shoulders, and that is genuinely what it feels like. I I tried for a long time to go through all the motions of of doing all the right things and learning all the things for for God. And he used it, he used it all, and he used that all those efforts, but it was And he's still using them. And he's still using them, but it's man, when when I it's it's like my relationship with Christ now is is different. It's it it is a weight off my shoulders. I don't feel shame, guilt, or pressure. It is enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

His yoke is easy, yes, it is so easy when I know. It's to it's all the things we know and we read about, but then when you actually experience it, it's like, oh, this is what it means to rest in your love. This is what it means to be in your arms. Like, and we're still gonna mess it. We're still gonna go back.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

We're gonna rewind.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

It's the story of the whole Bible. We forget, we forget, we forget, we stray. And we remember. And we'll preach, girl. Yeah, it's preaching now. All right, okay, living it out. This is our part where we have to like you and I have to now have our moment of like, okay, how am I gonna live this out? So I'm not gonna say I'm gonna work on my prayer life because you've already determined. Don't do that. That I can't do that. So I am going to commit to prayer walks. I love this idea. Because I take my dog for a walk anyway. Yeah. And I can't say that I don't ever pray when I walk. I do a lot of times more like solitude. I have started to not bring AirPods or anything, like I just kind of enjoy the nature. But I love the idea of using this as an opportunity to like to pray specifically. So, how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Tell me, teach me your ways. Well, can I challenge your yes? Okay, yes. Here's the challenge questions. Asking those questions, and I think um why don't why don't I challenge both of us? Okay, okay. I love this idea. I think my live it out will be to shut up a little bit more on my walks because um, you know, I've I've gotten very accustomed to asking a lot of questions, but sometimes I just need to be silent. Oh, that's so good. Instead of just saying, Lord, I think I know what you're doing here, and let me let me tell you what I think you're saying. You know what I think you should do. Yes. See, still figuring it all out. Um, but I would say um, I've got two two questions here for that we can we can start with, but I think um just to in the book, like the very first day, the very first lesson talks about if we expect to have these deep prayers with God and go into that heart transformation place, we can't do any of that unless we believe in what he's gonna do and trust in what he's gonna do. And that first step is just believing in his perfect providence because we can pray all day long, but then if we're gonna just take the reins again, right, it's not gonna be that effective. So I wonder if we can ask questions about like, Lord, remind me of the times that you use the darkest points of my life for good in my life. Because if we reflect back on that, it reminds us, you know, in the situation that we're in. Well, Lord, I I saw what you did there the last 45,000 times that you've you've worked in my life. Um Okay. I would challenge us to ask these two questions. Okay. So say it again. Say the first one again. Well, how about I actually do that? I don't know. That was the Holy Spirit I thought.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

I was like, okay, she doesn't need to up with the book for that one.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

So how about two of them? Okay. Lord, what in what ways have you used the darkest points of my life for good in my life? Okay. It's an easy one to remember.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, I'm gonna put these on Instagram too to help anyone who is not in a position to take notes right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

And then number two would be what purpose have you shown me in all you've allowed me to go through? Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Because they're both part of the same question. Yeah, it's reflecting and then what purpose? Yeah, it's reframing. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

So just going a very healing prayer, too. Yeah, so we're both committing to going on prayer walks, asking those questions, and then I'm gonna be quiet a little bit more than normal.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

And that's probably uh something I always need to do. But this time I'm just gonna get into the rhythm of asking questions. Of asking questions. Yeah. See what God reveals. Yeah, that's so good. Thank you for coming on here. Oh, girl, this is fun. I love it. Will you pray us out? Oh, sure. Love a good prayer. I mean, shoot. It feels right. I feel like no, we'd have a problem.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

All right, let's pray. Lord, we come before you just grateful for this time. Um, I'm thankful for Lisa and her heart for these um these women listening and for her church. Um, thank you for um just putting prayer on our hearts today. I I I just lift up everybody listening to this um podcast that you would just stir in their hearts exactly what you want to say to them, exactly the direction that you want to lead them. Um, stir in their hearts to to just have these conversations with you, to get off that cold metal chair and and head to the bench and just be comfortable, Lord. If they don't have a desire to pray, I ask that you show them why and that you meet them exactly where they need to be men on that bench, and that you would just reveal to them what's going on in their hearts. Um, we thank you for this opportunity to uh speak to you and to love you better. Um, and we just pray this all in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Amen. Okay, listeners, let's take it to the bench this week as we pray to God. He alone is our salad ground.