In Depth: 48th District Senator Chris Gebhard on Skill Games

The biggest issue in the primary race for the 48th District Republican State Senate nomination is SKILL GAMES.  Television and radio airwaves are being flooded with commercials about this topic, and where incumbent Senator Chris Gebhard and challenger Clovis Crane stand.  

In this radioNOVO News In Depth report, News Director Laura LeBeau sits down with Senator Gebhard, to get his take the skill games issue in this election.  

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2619137/19248085-in-depth-48th-district-senator-chris-gebhard-on-skill-games/transcript

Transcript

Laura LeBeau 0:00

So this is Radio Novo News in depth with 48th District State Senator Chris Gebhard. The issue that dominates this primary election between you and your opponent is the skill games. Man, don't you wish you could take all those machines and throw them to the bottom of the ocean?

Senator Chris Gebhard 0:17

Well, I certainly think they've been helpful to, you know, the the nonprofits of the world, you know, the VFWs and the legions of the world. I think these machines have be have been helpful to them. I think they've put they've put them in a position to deliver uh on what you know what their ultimate goal is, which is to support the communities that they're in. I think those are good things. And and I've been very vocal and very open that I think we need to continue that. I mean that's that's why when we talk about what the regulatory environment should be around these machines, is that it should be in an age-controlled environment. And that's why that's why I think you should tie them to people that have liquor licenses. You already have an age environment where it's 21 and older, uh, and these you know, people that run, you know, places with liquor licenses are used to carting people, they're used to understanding who's old enough to do what. Uh, and I think that's the type of environment we in we're we need to be in when it when it comes to these machines. I mean, I think the main issue with these machines is they have exploded in terms of where they are. They have basically mushroom to the point where they're in every, you know, every corner shops in every corner of every uh, you know, store and you know gas stations, laundromat and gas stations, and I mean we've gotten to the point legally they could put one into daycare right now because that there is no requirement there. I mean, you could put one of these machines into daycare. So uh that's a that's a serious problem. And what and the other thing that we've seen is we've seen uh organized crime has absolutely flocked to these machines. They have that found that they are the perfect device for them to launder money from their illegal operations. And I and I've talked to the state police about it, we've talked to police forces from around the Commonwealth. Absolutely organized crime is running tens of thousands of these machines across Pennsylvania because it allows them to launder the money from their drug operations, allows them to launder the money from their from their trafficking operations, because they're all cash, no one's monitoring them, and they're just putting cash in and pulling it out, and it becomes clean money. That's a major problem. And that's why you're seeing so much crime surround these machines.

Laura LeBeau 2:37

Turkey Hill, just not too far away on 12th and Maple, they have a liquor license. They sell beer now. Uh at that.

Senator Chris Gebhard 2:46

They have a liquor license. Uh they have a restaurant license, right? Correct. They've they have purchased a restaurant license. They have to have a certain number of seats there, you know. They have to they have to comply with the state laws in terms of what you need to qualify as a restaurant. So should they they would be eligible to uh have machines under the legal framework that we're trying to create.

Laura LeBeau 3:06

Honestly, when those stores get busy, seven kids in there getting slushies, you know, I don't know that anybody's watching who's playing while they show games.

Senator Chris Gebhard 3:15

They they should have people working in there that are mindful of of ages of p of their customers. Because if they are selling if they're selling alcohol in there, then they need to be mindful of the ages of the people that are doing it. And they ultimately they should be mindful of the people playing the machines if they have machines.

Laura LeBeau 3:33

You are no longer the chairman of the Senate gaming committee. But when you were, is when you were working on the legislation. And your bill was 35 percent taxation of these skill game machines and you know many other things too. Correct. But the taxation rate was 35. Correct. Senator Gene Yaw, who is supported by the Pesematic people and the skill game industry, has a a bill and his framework has what 16 percent? I think it's like sixteen.

Senator Chris Gebhard 4:07

I mean, the industry has not shot been shy to say that that was their bill. I mean, they have publicly said that that there was their bill. I'm not so sure they wanted to say that, but they have publicly multiple times said this is our bill.

Laura LeBeau 4:21

So is there any conversation going on to get between thirty-five and sixteen?

Senator Chris Gebhard 4:27

My job and and anyone that knows me knows that I don't have a horse in this race at all. I I am not a skill game person, I'm not a casino person. I I think that's why when I was made to be the chairman of this, you know, when I was appointed to be the chairman of this committee, it was because I had no allegiance. I wasn't tied to anyone. And not a gambler. Not really. Not not really a gambler. Me neither. I work too hard. I'm with you. I'm with you. And I and I understand statistics enough to know that, you know, I'm I'm not really willing to take a look at the city. I'm not, yeah. To win it's a losing proposition long term. So I think that's probably why I don't do much of it. But the other part of my reputation is that I I'm a person that they look to to to figure out, hey, how do we get an agreement here on it on a difficult issue? And they they brought me in, I think, to do that. And then so so I didn't have any allegiances. I'm a person that's there to make make some deals. But this is a difficult issue. You have some extremely powerful people on both sides of this issue. I mean, the skill game people, I think it probably holds today, but at the time when I was the chairman, they had more lobbyists under contract than any other entity in the state of Pennsylvania. The skill game industry did. They spent more on lobbying than any other entity in the state of Pennsylvania. I mean, this is not little. These people are not little. Right. I mean, they they like to hide behind a veil that they're somehow little, but they are certainly not spending millions and millions of dollars a year to influence the legislative process. They're certainly not little. So they're on one side of this this argument. The casinos are on the other side of the argument, and they certainly stormed into my office and wanted to talk about this issue because their belief is they wanted these machines absolutely banned, taken off the street, gone forever. And there's people in the legislature that agree with that. There's been bills introduced that agree with that. And my take on that, the very first meeting I ever had with the casinos was guys, that's not gonna happen. Okay, maybe that could have happened, you know, well before my career started, but that's no longer a reality anymore. That these things have become, you know, part of part of these VFWs, part of these legions, part of the restaurants. Yeah. And I do not see the political will in this building to make them go away. And they had to deal with that hard truth. Like I I find it comical when people accuse me of being, you know, that I'm a casino person, and yet I'm the one casino Chris, isn't that what they call you? Exactly. But and yet I'm the one delivering the hard message to the casino industry that we're not going to ban.

Laura LeBeau 7:18

So have you made enemies of the skill game people and the casino people?

Senator Chris Gebhard 7:23

Uh at times I think there were the you could have said that. You could have said, you know, I must be I must be I must be treading towards a common ground because everyone had hated me at one point. And that's to me, I'm okay with that. Because that means you're getting close to what an agreement should look like. Is if both sides aren't happy, they usually say it's a probably a pretty good deal. And and we were treading towards that. Now the bill that we introduced is certainly not a finished product by any means. No bill that ever gets introduced as a finished product from the from the beginning. It it's it was just a a a placeholder for what should the final product look like. And it was an invitation for people to come to the table and discuss what it was what it should look like. But sadly, the skill game industry wasn't interested in that. They they have a reputation around this country that if you don't agree with them and do what they want, then they're gonna get rough with you.

Speaker 1 8:27

.

Senator Chris Gebhard 8:32

You just look at Kentucky and you look at Virginia, they went down this path to to legalization, both those states, it did not go the way they wanted. And their response was we're going after the legislators that wouldn't do what they were told. They've done that in other states. We c so I mean successfully? Uh I think, you know, with some success and some losses for sure. I mean, I I don't think they've I don't think they have a 100% success rate. Uh, but they certainly have uh Kentucky's an interesting state. I mean it's uh Kentucky's a part-time legislature. They, you know, I think they s you know they're doing that. They run uh they run races that cost, you know, five thousand dollars, you know, and things like that. So you can come in there and push somebody around pretty fast if if if you want to spend a little bit of money, and they were willing to do that. And and and so that's what they did. So that that's just their reputation. They've built that reputation up around this country that they're a bully.

Laura LeBeau 9:30

Well, if you are successful in retaining your seat, and at least at this juncture it appears that the primary election on May 19th is going to be determinant of who's gonna hold the seat. There doesn't appear to be a Democrat that's at at least gonna challenge you. Are we any closer to finding any resolution, or is this just gonna continue to linger and cause uh political chaos and unrest?

Senator Chris Gebhard 9:58

Well, I think there's uh I think there's two factors that are gonna play into that. One is the Supreme Court had the hearing about the legality of these machines the week before Thanksgiving. Uh that court case is pending their ruling, uh, which I would, based on past timing of how long they've taken to issue rulings, we probably could see that anytime. Any time now through probably July. That would be very important. Uh a lot of people that I've talked to in the legal world that watched that hearing and and analyzed it, do believe that the Supreme Court is leaning towards defining sk skill games as gambling devices. If that is the case, they immediately become illegal under state law because state law is very it's very strict and it is very clear. Uh gambling devices such as slot machines are only allowed in two places, and that is in a certified truck stop and on a casino floor.

Laura LeBeau 11:04

And the truck stop it has all kinds of requirements. All kinds of requirements.

Senator Chris Gebhard 11:08

They gotta sell so much diesel fuel, they gotta be the they have to have so much.

Laura LeBeau 11:12

I mean, it's like a mini casino.

Senator Chris Gebhard 11:14

And they have to meet a lot of requirements. Right. So and so if if the Supreme Court does rule that way, which a lot of people think they will, then I mean those machines become illegal at that point. And then uh it is would be you know thrust upon us to make a decision. How do we want to handle this? So I think I think the Supreme Court case is very important.

Laura LeBeau 11:38

Well, I'm sorry, if if the Supreme Court does rule that they are gambling machines and they've got a and they can only be in casinos uh or or establishments with a casino type license, uh, you know, the truck stop or the the actual casinos, then all of these VFWs and American legions that you've, you know, you previously said, oh, I that they've been very helpful to their success, they've got to get rid of their machines, correct?

Senator Chris Gebhard 12:04

Legally they would, yes. Legally it would. Now, I think that creates a problem. I think it also circles back to my the accusation that I am somehow a casino person. If the Supreme Court rules that way, the casinos will be the happiest people in the world because they will be like the court just accomplished everything we wanted. My conversation with the casinos the day after that happened would be we are not taking these machines away from the VFWs in the legal. So you'll make a carve out for a well, we would we would, you know, if we were to pass the legislation that that we proposed, that would supersede the court ruling because what it would do, would it it would actually legalize these machines, it would codify it into law, and that's what they need.

Laura LeBeau 12:49

But only in those specific venues.

Senator Chris Gebhard 12:51

It would allow us to select where we can put them. You know, I'm I'm on record, and I would not change my mind if the if the Supreme Court banned them. I am on record that I think liquor licensed establishments should be allowed to have these machines.

Laura LeBeau 13:04

Uh see, but I I think that's too broad. I mean, in my in my humble opinion, that's too broad because I don't want to see them at Turkey Hill.

Senator Chris Gebhard 13:11

I don't want to see them at the Well, there's only a limited number of Turkey Hills that have them. So it wouldn't be every Turkey Hill that would have them. It would kind of be the bigger footprint, Turkey Hills, the bigger footprint.

Laura LeBeau 13:21

But then with Giant, they would be in position to get one because they have a license. They sell wine and beer.

Senator Chris Gebhard 13:27

I think, Laura, what you I think you see with this is you see not everybody wants them. There's a lot of restaurants you can go in. I'll use the bluebird as an example. You can go in the bluebird, they don't have skill machines in there. They could. If they wanted them, they could put them in there. A lot of people don't see that as fitting what they want their establishment to be. If you look at Sheets, Sheets does not have any of these gambling devices. Oh, really? Sheets has never gone down the path of even saying, hey, we want to go through the truck stop model where we can put VGTs into truck stops. They've never done that. It just is their corporate decision that is not what they're interested in doing. Okay. And so I think people will have the ability to make that decision about whether they want them or not. Uh the Hotel Hershey has a liquor license. I do not see the Hotel Hershey setting up a bunch of, you know, the lobby. Slop machines. And the circular. I don't see the yes. I don't see the Hotel Hershey setting up a lot of slot machines in their lobby because that's not they wouldn't think that's a good idea to pitch to their clientele that this is the environment we're creating.

Laura LeBeau 14:35

That makes sense. Uh you know, but and I didn't realize that about sheets. I really didn't. I I don't pay attention to Wawa does it either.

Senator Chris Gebhard 14:42

I don't think Wawa does it either. They they both have they both have trucks.

Laura LeBeau 14:46

Well, see, could you work on getting some Wawa's here?

Senator Chris Gebhard 14:48

We're getting one. Just go down to the old Quinn Ride. That's right, that's right.