Yvette Nicole Brown: Love, Loss, Truth & the Light that Remains

In the premiere episode of A Lighthouse in the Dark, Michael Fishman sits down with the extraordinary Yvette Nicole Brown for a deeply human conversation about love, loss, caregiving, truth, and the courage it takes to keep choosing light.

Known for her warmth, wit, integrity, and unforgettable work on screen, Yvette opens up about the real-life experiences that have shaped her heart: caring for her beloved father, navigating grief after profound loss, finding love, stepping into marriage, and living as a relentless truth teller in a world that often rewards silence.

This episode is a conversation about what it means to show up fully. For family, for love, for yourself, and for what is right. Together, Michael and Yvette explore the beauty and weight of a life lived in public. They dive into caregiving, the sacred lessons found in grief, and the healing power of honesty. 

It is an exploration of how love can remain a guiding force even in life’s darkest seasons.

Tender, funny, wise, and deeply inspiring, this first episode sets the tone for A Lighthouse in the Dark: real conversations with remarkable people about finding hope, healing, resilience, purpose, and humanity when life gets hard.

Because even in the dark, there is always a light worth moving toward.

Full episodes can be watched as well on YouTube @alighthouseinthedark channel.

For more connection and exclusive content please subscribe to the official @alighgthouseinthedark Substack.

Additional content is available across social media @alighthouseinthedark

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to A Lighthouse in the Dark. And my goal is to have deep conversations with meaningful people who spread kindness and connection and compassion in the world. And when I was thinking about this, I thought of who would be the very best guest to begin this process with. So I started looking for someone who has the best heart and soul that I know, someone who shines all the time. So welcome to the show, Yvette Nicole Brown.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Thank you. I was about to say, are you going to interview yourself? Because you just described what I how I feel about you. So thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Uh well, you're too kind because I I know you to be like the warmest person around. And I I kind of want to start in the beginning for the little bits and pieces I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Take me back to the very beginning when you first kind of started discovering this. Like I heard you say one time that it was bingo and and being a latchkey kid that kind of got you started in entertainment. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

That's fair. Uh I don't know that it started me in entertainment, but it definitely made me want to be an entertainer. Not bingo in particular, but my mom going to bingo every night after work. My brother and I were home on our own, and uh television like babysat us. Um when we were younger, of course, our aunt or a friend would come over, but as we got older, she would be like, you know, lock the door, make your dinner. I'll see you when I when I win. Um and so we would watch, you know, Carol Burnett, and we would watch, you know, Good Times, and I just would watch all those shows and go, oh, like, what's that like? I want to do that. Um, never could imagine how, because I'm East I'm from East Cleveland, and you know, you can't Hollywood is way far away. Um, but I just thought it would be really cool if I could do that. So that's how I began.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

It's amazing to me when you say this that it's so far away. So, what was the moment when you decided you were gonna chase the dream and you were gonna leave? Because I think we live in a world where people are afraid to chase their dreams.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah. I used to always joke and say, uh, Cleveland is not closed. So the idea of if I ever chose to go away for college or to pursue my dreams, if it didn't work out, I could always come back. And my mother was always someone, may she rest in peace. She was always someone that made it clear, I will be here. So go. If it doesn't work, you can always come back. And you know, I kind of I had seen what Ohio had, and this is no shade on my hometown. I love being from East Cleveland, I love being from Ohio, but at the same time, what I knew that I wanted to do, it didn't reside there. Aside from, you know, doing Cleveland Playhouse or or Caramu. There was no television and film that I could chase there. So I thought, you know, after college, I'm like, let me just kind of go. Um and also I started as a singer. Like I didn't think I would, I wasn't really believing that I could be an actor because the thing is this with singing, you can do that anywhere, right? You don't need permission to do that. You can do open mics, you can do it anywhere. But it felt like television and film, you gotta be in a set, you gotta be, you know, and on a studio lot. There was a lot of that that was just so far away to me in my mind. So yeah, so I just thought I can sing, so I'll do that. And then it just kind of steamrolled into everything else I've done.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

I think you've built kind of one of the most diverse careers I think I've ever seen, which is like it's amazing. Because when I look at the list, right? Like if you look at your filmography on IMDb, yeah, you've worked with some of the most amazing people. I think the first thing I ever saw you in was girlfriends. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

That was like that was the first, the first real thing I did with like actual lines, first guest star ever, yeah. I always love to tell this story because I it's miraculous how it came to be. It was it was my first pilot season ever, so I had never even, you know, stretched my legs to get out there and see what was possible. And I had just gotten dropped by an agent. And I, I mean, and uh an ugly drop, like your pictures are downstairs, don't even come up, say goodbye, we don't want to see you. And so I had just gone to get my pictures, and I was feeling like, dang, you know, I was I'd done like one or two co-stars before that, and I had had a really great career in commercials, but I was just like dipping a toe into like episodic, and I was like, Well, dang, how do I how do I do this? I don't even have an agent anymore. And then I was like, well, let me just send a couple of postcards out. And I sent a postcard to Robbie Reed, and to this day, every time I see her, I just throw flowers at her feet because Robbie was casting girlfriends, and my postcard says something like Dear Miss Reed, um, you don't know me from a can of paint, but um, if you've if there's anything that comes up that you think I might be right for, I'd love to be considered. And that hit her desk maybe two or three days before she was casting Tony's sister on girlfriends. And her, and this is so long ago, Michael, we still had pagers. There were no cell phones.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

I remember.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, so I got a page from a number I didn't know, and I called it back from my landline, and it was Robbie's office, and they said, We'd love to see you for a role on girlfriends, and I'm like, What? So I go in, I get there, and it is literally every black woman I have ever respected and loved in one room. Right. And I was like, Well, I'm not getting this. You know, I mean, it's nice to have this little opportunity to go for it, but I'm not getting it. And I don't know what, like the stars aligned, and I booked it and got two episodes of one of my favorite sitcoms, and to this day, I still get stopped, and people talk about that. And um, so Mara Brock Akeel and Robbie Reed are two people that are so huge in my life because they saw something in me before anybody else did. And to book that with no agent and really no credits, I ain't nothing but God.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, and I I want people to hear that partially because I want people to understand the thing you did was you didn't give up.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Is you just kept the faith. That's right, and you just kept moving.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

That's right. And what do you have to lose is the whole point. Like they they don't I'm I already already don't have anything in in that basket. So why would I not at least try? You know, and and just the fact that it became something great is is miraculous. And I always joke and say that my career has been like Forrest Cump anyway, because I just end up places that I never I never could imagine just by trying.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Well, I was gonna look, I look at the list, I'm like, Two and a half men, seventh heaven, that 70s show, the office, entourage, Boston Legal. That's just in the in the run of like house, right? All of these things where you jumped in and had meaningful parts. The one thing I will say is you're always kind of unforgettable.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Oh, Michael, that's thank you.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

What what do you attest that to? Is it is it do you come in to make a statement, or it's just like you just feel it and you just go?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

This is gonna sound crazy, but I kind of always okay, because I I'm a like a connoisseur of television, especially sitcoms, I never just look at whoever's talking. When I'm watching a sitcom, I take in all of it. And often I'll find someone who has no lines in the scene or has one line in the scene, and my eye would go there to see what is that person doing while everyone else is doing what they're doing. And so I kind of realize at the beginning of my career that I'm gonna be that person, be the co-star, the number seven on the call sheet or whatever for the beginning of my career. So I want to give them something, never stealing focus, never trying to be the meal. But if you're eating and I'm the peas, I'm gonna make the peas delicious. So I would always try to do a little something in my corner of the screen so that if someone happened to look over there, the show would continue over there as well. And I think that might be the thing. And I learned it doing commercials because commercials, you book and it it you live in that space because of buttons. And I became the button girl. So every time I would audition after the copy was done, I'd always do the copy, but always add something foolish at the end or something silly or do something silly, and that made you remember them. So I already had buttons in me, so I would just find little buttons and it even extended to when I started doing community because I don't know if people realize that I didn't have a lot of lines on community, I had a lot of reactions on community, and those were my choices. So a lot of the grunts and the oh, and all of that was just me adding something for that corner of the screen. And even the Shirley's catchphrase, that's nice. If there's 90 of them throughout the show, 87 of them are just me adding it. There were very few um scripted that's nice, but I think Dan Harmon trusted me enough to know that I knew the character. And so he allowed me to throw it in wherever I felt Shirley would say it. And so just little things like that, I think, make you memorable as an actor. And you gotta, you gotta fully be yourself and not be afraid to be you because they're they're either looking for you or they're not. And if they're not looking for you, there's nothing you can do to be the one. And if they're looking for you, there's nothing you can do to not be the one. So you might as well go in and just give them you.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

I think that's so powerful and such beautiful advice. I also think that people underestimate how hard it is to have one or two lines in a show to be committed in every scene.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

It is something that I learned as a kid because there were episodes where literally DJ was just a almost a prop in the background.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

He used the peace. He made the peas on the phone. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

But I want to be peace with flavor and purpose.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

But throw a little pepper on there, a little salt, a little butter, yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Make the most of it.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Make a meal out the peas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

And I think there's a power in that because you learn to hold space, but you also learn to stay committed. And for me, it's listening.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Right? Because if you're in a scene, you're listening and good actors listen.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

You can watch them listen.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

And nothing will distract you more than if you pick a scene and you look and you look across the back. And there's nothing there. And somebody is doing something else, or it's just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Don't do it. Or waiting for their line.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Like it.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

It's the worst. It is the worst.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

And you can always see it because that stands out too. When you're not doing anything, it also stands out.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, because it's like the one thing that's wrong in the picture, right? And our brains are so good at identifying what doesn't fit. Take me to community, right? That was such a huge pivotal moment for you. And you've built that role like you just mentioned. How was that transition and what did that feel like to know I'm here and I'm here for an extended? You knew you were good because you worked across the business. But now you got to be somewhere consistently.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

The community audition kind of mirrors my girlfriend's audition in that this is the thing about being a black woman in Hollywood. Um, we don't get a lot of times at that. And so when a role goes out for one for us, they will see every black woman from 18 to 80 for a role. And so when I went in for community, um we were we had the audition on the Sony lot. And when I got there and parked, I'm not kidding, it was like a hundred black actresses, and all of them were had been on series, were guests, they were all people that I knew and respected. And I'm I'm realizing that me being sure I'm not going to get it is probably when I'm the loosest and most in the pocket.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

But I I feel like that show, more than anything in my career, was the first time that I feel like I really won it because there were so many going for it. And I won it because of my take on who the character was. And so there was a comfort level coming in when I booked it. It was NBC. It was Thursday nights. It was like to, you know, I grew up loving the Cosby show in Different World and cheers. And that was Thursday night, you know. And so to be a part of that lineup, uh, Friends in Seinfeld, it was like crazy. So I understood the weight of it and I wanted to rise to the occasion of that. So um I don't think that it's smart to ever feel like we're good. We this is the one, because every time I've been like, This is the one, it ain't the one. Yeah. So I've started to it in that one in particular. I just was like, I'm gonna enjoy this as long as I get to have it. And you know, we got five, we got six years ultimately, but I did five of them and it was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, it's funny. The place where you're like, oh, we have something here, yeah, right? Like this is the one, you start getting excited, and people like go out and buy stuff. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, please do not do that. Be conscious, be slow.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Like I have a story for that too. Um the very first series regular I had was a show called The Big House. And I've told this story a couple of times, but I think it's important to tell it here too. We got sent to New York for the upfront. While we were there, they changed their mind about picking us up, and we got can't un unpicked up in New York while we're at the four seasons of the Rits or wherever we were.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Which is brutal. Like for people who don't know, going to upfront is like the announcement of you You're not just a show, you're one of our big shows. Like you're a key show.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

And they flew the whole cast, like all of us, not just the lead, all of us. That's a good thing. And this was Kevin Hart and Phase on Love and Keith David. This was a huge show. And uh we found out the night before the big present presentation that we weren't we're not gonna be on the schedule. So then we all went back home. I think there was a little bit of uh a ruckus because we were a black show, and this had never happened. We made the news for it never having happened. No show had been picked up and then unpicked up. And so I think ABC felt like, well, this is a bad look. So let's give them you know mid-season replacements. So they picked us up for 13. Um, I was driving a beater. When I tell you this car, this car, this car is a duct tape, uh, three different types of wheel sizes, um, could have the radio or the heat. But only one. Only one. Pick pick what you you need today. So it was really a it I it was grateful. I was grateful that I had it, but it was really a beater. And so then the eve of the sixth episode, Faison Love took me to a Honda dealership near the studio after work, and I bought a Honda CRB. First new car ever had. I said, you gotta give me the bow. I got the bow. Next day at work, I drive in with the bow. I'm driving down the street holding the bow. Love it. Because the bow is going to be a big car. I love it. I get there, park, go in, keys in hand, ready to tell my cast, I got my new car. Because all, you know, I was the butt of the joke because of the beater.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

I've been there.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

And they called me all of us into the living room set and said we have to, we have a we're gonna talk. Let us holler, we want to holler at you for a minute. And we got in there and they said, This is our last episode. We've been canceled. And I'm like, I got it, I got a car. And so that taught me that nothing in this business is forever. Um, do not go crazy. Now, granted, the CRV was maybe $199 a month. I was gonna be okay. But it's the feeling of believing that this is the one and it's not the one. And I'm so glad it happened on my first show because every show I've ever gotten since then, I don't spend money, I don't go crazy. Sometimes I don't even tell people that it happened until it's on the air and we're like on episode five or six, then I'll start to just six is like Pavlovian. When we get to six, I'm like, yeah. We get to seven, I'm like, we might make it to nine. I'm like, I'd like to tell you about this thing, right? Now I'll tell you that I'm actually doing a show. So um, so that was my ability to relax is always kind of it goes through that. Like, am I good? I'm good, okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

I totally get it. And I even when we came back like to the show, yeah, my car was ancient. And when I say ancient, I mean it was like 20 years old. That's right. It had about like it had almost 400,000 miles on it. I raised two kids in that car. And it ran. And it ran. And you drove it right on that topic. And I drove it on that line right on that top. Everybody looked at me and was like, and every week, almost every day, somebody would turn to me and be like, When are you gonna get a new car? And I'm like, first of all, I don't know what anybody else is making. Right. But I was making the same thing I made when I was eight years old. I swear to you, in 1989, I made the same thing in 2017 as I made in 1989 as an eight-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

It's the same thing I was making when I did Big House and Community. I was not making a lot of money. And I was like, there's no way, there's no way I'm spending a dime of this. It's all going in the bank. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah. And I was like, I have two kids. This is like I'm back to working on television. I will make investments when I can get there. That's right. And I had kids who were moving towards college. I was like, I listen, the car runs.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

It's comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

It's literally the seat is shaped like me at this point. Like I am perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

You can't make decisions based on what people think. Like I think I tell young young actors and new actors all the time, live below your means. 100%. Like always be below. If you're a series regular, live like a guest star. Guest star, live like a co-star, co-star, live like a background actor. You literally, if you do that, you will never be broke. You'll never be broke. Live one step below what you're currently doing and you're gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Don't start trying to present for everybody else. When I drive on the lot, I'm driving on a lot, right? When I walk in the door, nobody cares what I came at. Nobody cares. Right? My job is to come here and kill it in scenes. And I told them when they when I got that offer, I was like, it's fine, I'll bet on myself. I said, because at the end of the year, you're gonna realize what I have.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And at the end of the year, they're like, great, we'll give you a raise to what you made when you're 15. It's just the way that we're listening. It's like but you know what? It was also way more than I made making doing anything. Who are you telling?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Who you tell me?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

And I tell people all the time. It's like when people go, Aren't you frustrated, weren't you angry to only do seven episodes in in a year on a show like that? And I'm like, no, because if you asked any actor in town seven episodes on a top comedy on a major network. I just I knew who I was and I was grateful for what we do because I I know enough actors who've never had that benefit.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Who've never had it and or who had it and lost it. Like this is this is all we're we're on grace every single day that we're allowed to be in this business, you know. Um yeah, I I hear you. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Talk to me about inequity, because you and I have both seen it. I don't want to go too deep or too dark, but like the bias, the inequity, the imbalance, like we've navigated that and somehow you've stayed kind.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Can can you tell me the secret to that?

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Well, you know, I'm a black woman in America of a certain age, so there's nothing that Hollywood can do to me that America hasn't already done to me. And we are built to survive no matter what. Um, and then also I came up in a single family home, and my mother was a beast, like she was like beast in a good way. She was like, We we can make this work, like you just make it work. But I I wish sometimes that I didn't have to wear the mask that I have to wear often. But you when you are black in America, you know where it's safe to be full of yourself and where it's not safe to be full of yourself. So um when I'm able to just relax and be Yvette from Cleveland in a room, I'm very happy. But most of the time, they get the version that I know they can handle. Fragility is real and um microaggressions are real, and there are a lot of people whose only experience with black people is what they've seen in television and film. And so when they meet you, they already assume certain things about you because of the way we're always portrayed, and often in a stereotypical way. So I am now the representative for every black woman they've ever known in person. So I have to be what they need me to be so that I can keep the job and continue to do good work for my people. So it's it's something that we just know to do, it's something that we don't have to think about. It just we slip in and we slip out. Um, what I've tried to do in social media though is I show the realness of whatever I'm talking about. I do not censor myself on social media, I don't censor myself in podcasts. Um and I'm I'm and by nature, I'm a kind person, I'm a respectful person. So I'm not hiding something about myself. This is actually who I am, but the way I put it down may change depending on the room I'm in.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Well, you are, yeah, and I think this is something you and I have kind of bonded over, which is we're both relentless truth tellers. It's like we're gonna I'm gonna give it to you. I'll be kind. Yeah, but I'm gonna tell you. But I'm gonna tell you, right? And I'm gonna tell you the hard, ugly truth.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Right?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, and I don't care about the consequences either. No, and I I've never cared.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

And I've never cared, and I'm gonna walk through this, and you can have the reaction that you want to have. And I will tell you, I'll use my own experiences being someone's ally on a set where bias or racism or bigotry has occurred. It's crazy to watch the way the way I was perceived and the way I was treated dramatically changed, and then to watch my co-stars literally say, Well, this is every day. Right? Like this is how I came into this business and this is normal, which is the most heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah, this is just how we are.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

I just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

You and I both have decided we're just gonna be just almost painfully authentic.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

So what is it like knowing what they want from you? You and I have chosen not to have a persona, right? But most people try to carry a persona through the world. I can't do it. And and I think people are seeing that that's a disastrous choice because they then they end up trying to carry it for 10, 15, 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

And then they crash.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

And then the world's like horrified because their version of them just got shattered.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Talk to me about coming into this business and then knowing who you really wanted to be and and maintaining it.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I already felt like I was on borrowed time as soon as I got in. I wanted to do one sitcom and one commercial, not wanted to do, but I I hoped to do one sitcom and one commercial. And that to me, that was success. That was something I could go back home and go, guys. So um as it kept going and it kept getting bigger and I got to do more things, I was already far beyond anything I'd ever dreamed of. So there was no reason for me to change who I was because who I was had been working just fine. Again, because it's not new to me, I'm not shocked when I I bump into racism. I'm I'm almost like, oh, there you are. You know, I expect it to show its head because it's just ignorance. And if you deal with someone that has a preconceived notion about who you are, and they've never done the work within themselves to correct that, and they don't have anyone in their friend circle to show the truth of who we really are, then I'm gonna be fully me. I'm gonna show who I am. I hope that that helps you going forward. If it does. That is still your work to do, precious. And I'm going to keep it moving. You know, I don't let anyone stop me from what I know I was put on this earth to do because I also am a person that I move through life with purpose. I know what the call is on my life. From the time I was born, I am a cheerleader of people. I celebrate people. I am a refuge in a safe space. That was me at Toys or Us at Christmas time. That was me working at Medic Drug in Cleveland. That's me on every set I go to. That's me in this in this room doing this podcast with you. No one shakes me from who God made me to be. And there's no amount of money, there's no opportunity, there's no uh fear or intimidation that can be put on me to shake me from who I know I am. And that's why I speak with authority about the things that are true and are right. And I don't care if I lose a job because of it, because any job that tells me I can't tell the truth is not a group of people I want to work with anyway. And I've never missed a meal, I've never missed a mortgage payment or a car payment. So my life has continued to be blessed because I choose to be a blessing. And that is the most simple bit of advice I can give anyone. If you get your mind off yourself and think of others, the world opens up for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

This is what we bonded over.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

This is the secret relationship that people don't know. Yeah. Because we're probably about it's by it's gotta be a decade.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

A decade in by now, yeah, we are. Did we meet on Twitter? What was how do we meet?

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, I think we met social media and then we had people.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah, we were kindred spirits, and we you you find your your your your group, yeah, you know, and we were in those Twitter streets knocking stuff back, fighting back stuff, telling the truth, telling the truth, and we just found each other. And I was like, oh, it's kindred. This he gets it. He's he's a heart. I feel like people are heart people, mind people, soul people. Like you're you're a heart-soul person, and this takes nothing away from your intellect, but you move from a space of of love and care, and you see people, and that's what we have in common. We see people, and we go, you know, I I liken myself to, I hope that I'm considered to be one of the helpers the way Mr. Rogers taught us to be. He said, look for the helpers. And if you if you don't see one, become one. And in my mind, I believe that I'm one of the helpers. I believe I am our brother and sister's keeper, and I'm put in places. That's why I use the word refuge. I'm put in places to be the safe place because on every set, something going down.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

100%.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

And someone needs to be there to catch people when they're falling or to stand up for people when they're being mistreated. And I have no problem being that person. No problem at all. And I know saying.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

And we've both lost jobs because of it.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

And we've both been pushed out of places because of it.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

And never thought, yeah. Didn't regret a doggone thing, would do it again.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

No, and would do it again. Like, I know exactly why. Yeah. And I'm perfectly okay because I don't fit in that environment.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Yeah, I've said some things, I'm like, I'm proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

You're right. Well, that's the other part, is I look back and people are like, Do you want to take that statement back? And I look back, and most of the time I read it and I'm like, no, I'm proud. Like, I feel good with that one. That was a good one. And I'm like, I might have changed the fact that I missed a punctuation here or there and missed the other one.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Oh, that's a typo. But this this it also lines up with with um with Representative John Lewis, who is one of my favorite people, and I'm so sad he's no longer here. Good trouble. Good trouble. Good trouble, necessary trouble. Like when you look at speaking up front through that lens, that it's good and necessary, and you might be the only one that'll do it or say it, put me in, coach.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Put me in.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

You know, and we've bonded over this because I'm I know who I am, yeah, and it's not a sacrifice. It's not I think other people see it that way. And I look at it and I'm like, no, I was a gift. It was a gift to me to get to stand in that place. That's right. It's an honor, and it's also it really differentiates who the other people are. Because really, I'm not here to like punch you in the nose or rub your nose in your mistake. I'm re it's it's a mirror.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

It's just a mirror.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

And it's like, this is who you are, okay? That's who you are.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

It's a mirror or a spotlight.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

And then also, like, I look at myself in the mirror and go, Well, I don't want to be that. Right? Like, I don't, good trouble is always the way to go.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Yeah, I don't want to, I I I endeavor to always be an asset and not a liability. I want to always say, I want to leave a sweet aroma. Like when I leave a room, I want people like, oh, Yvette's gone. You know, or when I come and Yvette's here. I don't want to be like, thank God, he's out of here. I've you've all we've all had the experience where someone has left a room and everybody went, oh god. You know, I don't want anybody doing that when I leave a room.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

I don't. I used to say this as a coach, right? When I especially when I coach kids, yeah, I would watch the interaction, right? There's two types of coaches. There's the coach who walks up and the kids run to him.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

And then there's the coach who walks up and all of a sudden everybody looks around. It's like, uh, I'm gonna go somewhere, right? And everybody runs away, even if they don't show that they're running right away. Yeah. When I show up on a set, people know I love them. Yep. And people know that I'll F with the BS, right? Like people, and so there are times I've been written out of episodes where they're like, yeah, he's not gonna go along with that. And I'm like, Good. You're right. Good. But I'm also gonna show you the mirror in the most loving, supportive way. I will be your ultimate teammate. And you know, you're a promotional like master because you go out and you fight for your project.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I think that's what we're supposed to do. I don't understand people that don't want to promote what they did. Now you don't but they didn't pay your money and you just spent the time on the set, and now you don't want to tell nobody about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

I don't understand it. And you're not gonna fight for the job that you love, you're not gonna share for the work that you did.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And listen, I love promoting stuff so much, I promote other people's stuff. I was just about to say you can go to my Instagram. I am shouting at other people's stuff way more than I shout out mine. I tell my friends all the time, I said, if there's something you want pushed out, just make me a collaborator. Like you don't even have to send it to me and ask, just make me a collaborator. I'm gonna say yes, and it'll go right up because I I like nice things and I like to celebrate people. So yeah, it's not a problem.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

And it became part of your career, right? Because your fandom and your joy transversed into another avenue for you in your life. Talk about some of that, some of the projects where you're like, I just love this project, and then it turned into Yeah, like the the big the first one was probably um Talking Dead, Walking Dead.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

But um, I was a huge fan of the show, and when they started Talking Dead, um I think they had trouble getting getting people to come on to talk about the show because it was one of the first, if not the first, talk show about a show that was created. There's a lot of them now, podcasts and rewatches and all that. But back when they when Walking Dead was around, there wasn't that. And so uh Chris Harbaugh was creating something brand new. And I I'm a huge nerd and a huge fan of things. And when I really like something, I go really, really deep. And so that was the first time I got to really let my freak flag fly in a certain uh aspect. The second big one that I think shifted things in another direction was Ted Lasso. I became a huge fan of Ted Lasso, and we were in the pandemic, and they wanted to, I don't know if they were, it was Emmy or it might have just been promoting the show just randomly, and I was in a Zoom with those amazing actors, and we had such a transcendent conversation that I became the go-to person every time there was a Ted Lasso panel. That put me in with Apple, and now I've moderated panels for Severance in the studio and shrinking. I just did Pluribus at Paleyfest. I have had an amazing time because I'm a fan. So I get to ask the questions that a fan would want to ask when I do Comic Con, same thing. I'm I'm there as the surrogate for the fans, and I'm always asking the questions that I would want to know as someone that loves that show. Um, and then also I just I don't, I'm not someone that needs the the spotlight to be on me. And so moderating is the perfect way to use everything I have for someone else's benefit, and nothing makes me happier than that.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

It's being the helper. Oh I I love to be the shine the light on person. Like I will be your biggest teammate and cheerleader. I love that part of it. Absolutely. Bill Lawrence is amazing. He's so great. A friend of mine, Kip Kroger, is one of the producers there who kind of helps put everything together on the technical side. So I saw that stuff coming early.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

And it's just so beautiful when you see people who love what they do and build things together and then they get go celebrate them and be the helper is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

That's so great. It's so great. It's one of my favorite things to do.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I'm gonna pick on you when it comes to helping, right? I'm gonna ask you a tough question. Sure. Talk to me about in 2013 when your dad got diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

And you became a caregiver.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Because you completely changed kind of the focus and the primary part of your life.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Can you tell people, like, one, how beautiful and easy that decision was for you? Because I think people I think people wrestle with it.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

And then what that journey's been like.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

I was uh community, my dad had been uh going through something that me and my mom didn't know what it was. And my mom and dad were divorced. So my dad was back in Ohio, my mom was out here with me, and we both noticed that something was going on with my dad. Um, so I I kept an eye on it, and I said to myself, as soon as community is canceled or ends on its own, I'm going to get daddy. And so community got canceled, and I canceled on the Friday. By Sunday, I was in Cleveland packing them up, getting them together. It it's it was the first time I tell I tell people this all the time. I I was a child of divorce, so I'd never lived in the same house with my dad. I'd done weekends with my father, but I'd never had like random Tuesdays waking up and having breakfast with my dad or talking to my dad before I went to bed or talking about my homework. I didn't have that experience at all. So the first time I ever lived with my dad was in my 40s, you know, in my house, and he was already starting the Alzheimer's journey. Um, it was the easiest decision I ever made. Uh and I I've I've had people say, like, you walked away from a television show. It's like I don't get my my worth from a show. No. It's just a job. I mean, it's a job. I'm grateful to have a job. Love it. Love every day on set. It's a job. It's a job, and it's not more important than my family. And also, I don't care about fame. I'm one of those people that I realize that fame is vapor and I don't need the adoration. And it's it's lovely. It's nice to have people say, I really love your work, but I don't get an ego boost because someone sees me on television. I never have. So walking away from the spotlight is like, okay, what why what what? I didn't care. Um, and I feel this is what I what I try to do through my podcast, which is about caregiving, and in every space I talk about caregiving, I'm doing my best to get people equipped because I don't think everyone realizes that before we leave here, we all will be a caregiver or a caregive. Nobody misses it. And people that are parents already are caregivers, just don't call yourself that. So every single person will be caring for a loved one, a parent, a friend, a kid, or they themselves will be cared for. So I want to equip them before it comes. And what I tell people all the time, caregiving is easy because caregiving is just loving. And if you know how to love, you can be a caregiver. Now, there's tough parts of it, but the idea of saying I am going to extend myself for the benefit of benefit of another person is not hard. It's not. And if you find it to be hard, then precious do the work on yourself. Because again, it's not gonna miss you, it's gonna find you one way or the other. So you gotta get ready.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Yeah, I've been a caregiver both as a parent and then as a as a child with parents. I was also a caregiver as a husband.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Right, and as a spouse. And I don't think that can hit you at any portion of your life.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

That's the sickness and health that they talk about, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

And and there's such a beauty to it. But I was like you, I never looked at it as any like people try to label it a burden or people try to run away from it. And I'm like, no, it it's just loving in a different way, that's all it is, and learning new skills in the love set, right? Like how do we make the most of each day?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

And one of the things that I love, because squeezed is your podcast. You guys won a Gracie Award. Like it this is so deserving.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Because I heard you say that you wanted to tell people and show people kind of a roadmap of what it was like and the things you didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah. You know, it's it every every caregiving journey is is different. And surely if you're a caregiver for someone with Alzheimer's, that is you don't know what you're getting from any given day. And what I learned in doing Squeeze, which is what I love about the format of Squeeze, is it's a doc you podcast. So, in the same way you would watch a documentary and see people living their lives, and maybe have a voiceover on top of it, with Squeeze, you hear people living their lives. So if I'm talking about a father making breakfast for his triplets, you'll hear him going, Do you want eggs? Do you want pancakes? And you'll hear the kids going, I want pancakes. And as I'm talking to him, you'll hear his life unfold. And what I've learned from doing Squeeze, because we've had a couple of people who um are caregivers for their parents with Alzheimer's at this point in the journey, I'm realizing that even though every caregiver story is different, there are some things that we all do. And so we have these moments like you do the you do the whiteboard too with the, you know, or you you put post-it notes around too. And it makes you feel less alone. You feel like um someone understands the journey that you're on. And my goal with squeeze, um, and I do it with uh Eliminata Media and uh Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, our goal is to create, um, like I said, a roadmap so that wherever you are in the journey, you'll hear an episode that'll meet you there. And also while you're caregiving, because it can be very lonely and uh it's a very solitary pursuit. A lot of times, it squeezes like a friend in the room with you. So while you're caring for your loved one, you you have a friend on the journey there with you. And I hope that that's what people get when they listen.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah, and people are getting it, and I think it's so important because it can be so isolating.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Right. Uh, I think I heard you say one time in an interview, like there are no nights off. There are no sleep fully through the night with no no worries or what no chaos that's involved. There's never a day where you're not worried about something or you're not no one's ever said I have too much time or I have too much free time.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

Never.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

And then also, you become this beautiful sharer and storyteller. I think one of the things about caregiving that I love the way you highlight is the joy.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Talk to us about like retelling your dad's favorite stories or sharing his favorite foods.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

The way I look at it is, especially if it's someone with dementia, you become um the caretaker of their memories. That's the way I describe it. I'm the caretaker of my dad's memories. So, um, and he's no longer in my home with me. I had him for um 11 and a half years. For the last year, he's been in aborting care because he can't walk anymore, and I can no longer care for him at the level that I wanted to be able to care. So he's in a beautiful home with three other men that are there, and they have two full-time caregivers, and he's so well taken care of. Um, but the beautiful thing about when I get to spend time with him, and and that's often because he's 10 minutes from my house. So it's like it's great. I get to remind him of things. I'll go, Daddy, let me tell you about how you met mommy. Or daddy, let me tell you what you used to do at work. Dad, can I tell you about this car you used to drive? And he's I drove that. Like he gets so delighted at hearing his story told back to him. And that's my way of of storing up even more memories for myself, you know, when when he ultimately goes on. So it's just it's just living each day um aware of how blessed we all are to still be here. And honestly, I'll take my dad in whatever form I can get him, whatever, whatever, wherever he is on any given day. Because some days I go and he's like hivet, but most of the time when I go, he just sees me as the nice lady that feeds him yogurt, and that's enough for me, you know, on any given day.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

It's the hardest thing the moment the moment somebody doesn't totally recognize you.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

The first time it happens, man, you are it's over.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Yeah, yeah. And it will rip at you.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Because you have this connection and the love didn't change for you, but you can see that they can't make all the connections.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Yeah, they're like I it's it's funny. My dad always seems to know that I'm familiar. Right. You know what I mean? There's never been a time where he's been afraid of me or you know, recoiled when I hug him or give him a kiss on the forehead. Because I love just stealing my little kisses, my sugar. Um, there's never been a time that he's not known that I am allowed to be in his personal space and that um, but when there's the fog and it lifts and the recognition, you know, there's been times I've been sitting with my dad for two hours, and then he'll go, Yvette, when you get here. I said, Oh, I just got here. Because it's all a game with all sermons, it's a game of yes and. So wherever he is on any given day, I meet him there. So some days he's watching trains go by. And I go, What color is the train, Daddy? Where's it going? You go, should we get on or should we wait for the next one? Well, I don't know. I think I'm gonna wait. Well, I'm gonna sit here and wait with you as we wait for the train. And then next thing you know, he's talking about I when I was in Hawaii, what happened in Hawaii? Well, you know, I went here and I think I'm gonna go when you want to get on the plane? Should we go? Yeah, let's go. Like it's just it's the make-believe that we used to do when we were kids. They live in that world, they're seeing scenes of their life, and the worst thing you can do is say, no, you're not waiting for a train. You're you don't you don't wake the sleepwalkers, the way I look at it. You you join them in the reverie and you enjoy it, you join them in the dance, and it's just playful and fun and heartbreaking and cruel and all the things, but he's still in there, and I will excavate and find him as long as I have to and bring him out when I can.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

And yes, and I will share you with love. Absolutely. Right? Like I'll meet you with love wherever you are today. Absolutely, which is one of the most beautiful forms of love. I'm gonna ask you a hard question, sure, which is and this is something I think caregivers struggle with tremendously, which is when you know that their best care might not be with you. Because you take on this mission, it becomes your mission to be the ultimate caregiver. And I know you, you like literally were willing to go to nursing school, like like you are not just a hundred percent in, you were a thousand percent in and looking for other people to be with you.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Talk about the moment when you realized this might be a better choice for him. Yeah, and I and I need to make the best caregiving choice, which is the hardest choice for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

For me. You to be a uh the best caregiver, it has to never be about you. And that's what they tell parents too. Like once you have kids, you're you're supposed to be focused on them. The parents that um harm their kids are the ones that have the babies and still put themselves first, and then the kid who's never done any of this before is left trying to fend for themselves. And so, in caregiving, it's kind of the same thing. So at a certain point, even though I wanted, because I vowed to never have him outside of my home. Like I didn't trust anybody with him, and I felt like he's my daddy, it's my job to make sure he's okay. When he fell and broke his hip and the dementia told him he could no longer walk, because it's the craziest thing. After the surgery, he was walking, like he was doing his physical therapy and all that. But as soon as he went to the rehab center for that month or however long he was there, he wasn't getting his daily um physical therapy. And at some point, his brain just told him that my legs don't work anymore, and he's just stopped trying. So that's when I said, Well, then now I'm gonna leave the entertainment industry, I'm gonna become a registered nurse and learn how to do the lifts and change him and bathe him and all the things that um I knew that he would need. And I was talking to a um social worker about it, and um, bless his heart, he I said, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do this, and I'm just talking him out a minute, and he's he was quiet. And I said, Did you did you hear, like, do you have any leads or what he said, can I just ask you a question? I said, Yeah, he said, Um, nobody on this planet will love your father better than you. There's nobody that will love him better than you. Could you possibly try to figure out if maybe there's someone that could care for him better than you? Like, could there be someone that already knows how to do this, that has a heart for doing this and wants to do it for your father? Can we? And I was like, dang, he's right. You know, and so then he said, Maybe this energy you have for nursing school can be funneled into finding the best board and care for him. Because he knew I didn't want to put him in a nursing home. It had to be something that felt like a home. So um, they I did it, I found the place, and it's wonderful, and it's better for my dad. So anything I felt uh guilt or sadness that I didn't have him anymore, every time I see him and he's thriving. My ther my dad is thriving so much that when he left the the um rehab center and had to go to the boarding care, we decided to put him on hospice where I was encouraged to put him on hospice because um of the comfort care aspect. I didn't they told me that it wasn't because he's dying. Um, but just that we'll make him comfortable how however this plays out. My dad is doing so well that I got a call from hospice saying we're taking him off hospice because he's no longer declining. So my dad, a year after, at this beautiful place with the amazing la la and um is thriving. And that to me tells me that I made the right decision. Um, he has what he needs to continue to to live a good life, and that's that's all that matters to me.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

It's everything.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

It's everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I'm gonna talk about passing for a minute. Yeah. You and I also bonded over grief. Grief. Which is I mean hot garbage.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I don't recommend it.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yeah, yeah, I don't recommend it to anybody, but I also I believe that grief is a gift.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It is my stance, and I know because I've sent it to you in messages. We exchange messages on certain dates of the year that are tough for us and for each other. Yeah. Talk about when your mom passed on for a moment. Because your mom, your mom was your rock.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, my mom was everything.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

And you celebrate her in the most beautiful ways.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yes, my girl. Um grief. You know what's funny about grief? You it's like it's like the the waves of the ocean. A hundred percent. You don't really know how big the wave is gonna be, and you don't know which one is coming in.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

And you don't know when a rogue one's gonna come and just knock you down, right about the time you think like I counted it great.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Ribtide is garbage, man. So my mom passed when I was out of the country. I was in I was in Ireland working on a film, Disenchanted. It was a three-month shoot, and my mother passed a month into a three-month shoot. My mom was also my dad's caregiver. She had encouraged me to go. She was excited for me to go. And this was also during COVID. So um the protocols were such that we still had the two-week quarantine on each side. So when my mom got sick, um she told me everything was fine. I don't know what this is. I'm gonna go into the hospital, it's gonna be fine. Don't worry about it. And she died in eight days from that call to passing. So my I realized now that even if I had tried to go home, I wouldn't have made it in time because as soon as I got home, I would have been in 14-day quarantine and she would have passed before. And she said to me when she first got sick, she said, Why would you come home? I'm fine. I think it's gonna be okay. What are you doing? You know, you're you went to do that job, you've dreamed of this life. It's a Disney movie, and you're gonna be great in it. Finish your job. Um, then she died. So it was like daddy, my dog, and now my mom's gone. So thankfully, my brother was here and he um held down the fork. But I had to figure out who's gonna take care of my dad and my dog. My friend Myesha, who was my assistant at the time, was kind enough to move into my house. She never met my dad. She moved in sight unseen and became a full-time caregiver like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

My neighbor down the street took my dog. So they were settled. So all that was left was managing this that I'm trying to manage now. And I don't have to, but I just I don't feel like being a sloppy mess right now. Fair enough. So I'm gonna choose not to. I'm gonna fight through this. But I was left in Ireland alone, um, having to go to work every day and be a character. And there was a moment, damn, not gonna make it.

SPEAKER_05 46:18

There was a moment where my character had this great stunt.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

It was like a I think it was a cat that jumps on and she spins around. And you have to fall out of the out of the frame. And I had a stunt woman who was amazing, but I said, I think I can do it. I think I can do this stunt. So I did the stunt. And as soon as I jumped up, I was like, I can't wait to tell my my mom. And I was like, damn it, because I'm thinking, like, in the moment when it hit me, I was like, I'm about to cry this makeup, I'm you know, but then as soon as I had the moment, the next thought was she saw it. Because she's everywhere now, and so once that landed in that moment, it made the rest of the shoot fine because I started to believe I'm not away from my mother shooting a movie.

SPEAKER_05 47:17

My mom is here with me while she doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

You know I love you.

SPEAKER_05 47:24

I know you do that.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

And I part of this is because we kind of went on this journey at the same time. Absolutely. You know, I'm gonna turn into a mess here in a second because I can't say my son's name. Yeah, we'll share. Um and it was about the same time. Yeah, and you were one of the very first people to reach out to me. And I will tell you there were so many times you were my lifeline.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

Same.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

You know, and we we shared some long conversations and some big text exchanges. Yeah, and you were literally safe for me in a time when nothing felt safe.

SPEAKER_05 48:05

Nothing was safe, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Like and that's the part of especially the beginning of grief, right? Is nothing feels right, nothing feels safe. Some things you you just not built to handle in a normal handle.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

And we had the we had the big ones, like a child and a parent are the two biggest of the uh of the losses, you know. Um my mother, though, really prepared me for her death because she told me and my brother our entire lives. Like one thing she said was, I don't want a funeral. We knew that our whole lives if she didn't want a funeral, and we always like, well, mommy, why? She was like, because I don't want to create a space for anybody to come and put on a show.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

She said, I wish I could I wish I could have, I wish I could have resisted the show that other people put on.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

See what I mean? That's why she said, Don't even create the space. In her mind, and she taught us this our entire lives. Show up for people while they're here.

unknown 49:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

If you love them, tell them. If you want to spend time with them, spend time with them. If you if they cross your mind, call them. Leave nothing unsaid. And this is something that she instilled in us our entire lives. So when she passed, there was nothing left unsaid. There was nothing. We said we said I love you every time we hung up the phone. Me and my mother and my brother, whenever we hang up, we could me and my brother used to do battle. If we were mad, I'd I love you, I love you too. You know, so there was nothing missing. My grief lived in the space of longing for her still to be here, but not that devastating grief of oh God, I I didn't, I was mean the last time they saw me, or I didn't take the call or whatever. It I had none of that, thankfully. Um and I was blessed to have dear friends like you who checked on me and um let me know that they have my back. And and to this day, you know, because like I said, I'm I it'll be five years. When's your when's your day? Mine is May 29th.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Mine's June 6th. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

It'll be five years this year without her. Feels like five seconds, right? Right. Um, and sometimes I can tell the story and laugh and it's fine. And sometimes I tell the story and I'm a sloppy mess. And I never know why or when it's going to be one or the other. Um but I it's important for us to tell these stories and to talk about this because just like caregiving, every person is going to deal with the loss of someone they really, really love. And um, one of the best advice that my friend Wendell Pierce gave me, because I'm telling you, my phone in Ireland rang. It was like people put up the bat signal, Yvette needs you all. Um, my friend Wendell called me and he said, Um, continue the conversation. That was the best bit of advice I got. Anything that you would have asked your mother, still ask her. So sometimes I'm cooking, like, I'm making these home fries, and is it is it white potatoes or the yellow? And I would hear Fran go, girl, you know it's the yellow. And I done told you five times it's the yellow. You know, and then I go, Oh, that's right. I have the conversation out loud. Um, I always talk about um, with her permission, what a what a gift Janet Jackson was that night. Janet called me that night. She she found me in Ireland. I'd never even talked to her on the phone. Um, her nephew Taj, who I'm really good friends with, wonderful man, Taj Jackson. All the Jacksons are wonderful, but Taj in particular heard the news and called his aunt and said, You have to call Yvette. Like, you have to find her. And so I talked to Janet for like two hours on the worst night of my life. And I'm telling you, to the to the end of time, she can get a kidney. If she needs a kidney, she, I got, I got it. Janet, I got your kidney. Like she literally um kept me afloat on my darkest night, you know. So we have to walk through this life, the good and the bad, with each other and for each other. That is the only way we're getting through this, you know, especially with like everything happening in the world right now. You can't get through this without community or your village. And it doesn't have to be, and it should not be just the people that you have a bloodline with or share a race with or share a gender with. We all need to come together and take care of each other because there's no way we're getting through this without that. I got a garden in my backyard right now, not just for me and my husband, but for anybody on my street or in my community that needs a little kale. You need some kale? I got a little kale, some strawberries. I'm going to share my harvest. And I hope everybody's, you know, collecting water and having solar on their homes or building gardens so that we when this thing breaks down and with the way things are looking, we are going to have to be each other's um safe space, you know, and and do it with intention, like plan now to be there for others.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Now, because it's about to get well, you know that's my mission. Absolutely, always you know, um I have a safe space community, literally it's called that, which is about people from all over the place who are just struggling mentally.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

You know, the last time I saw my son, it's a thing, you think you have more time.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

I always do.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Um and I talk about it as the gift of grief. Yeah. Because it's a continuation of love and it it sneaks up on you in the in the moment. And and it's a smell or a moment, a song, uh something weird somebody says, a phrase, right? And it hits you.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

But you were so beautiful in what you said about continuing the conversation. Because I do. I talk about him all the time. It's the you know, it's the reason he's here every day.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

He's everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

And and and that's the thing, is it's a continuation of love. And when you start to look at it that way, it's something you and I both kind of also talked about. It's like when you continue that love, you don't miss it, it just changes shape.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Right. And the other thing that I think people miss is that it's supposed to hurt.

unknown 54:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

If you loved them, it's gonna hurt. And so almost, you know, I I've gotten to the point now that when I cry, I it usually ends up transitioning into laughter because I'm like, dang, this hurts.

unknown 54:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Because she was a real one, like she was dope. My mother was dope. So it's like I should be torn up. I should this should this should continue to haunt me in a in a way where the love lingers because it was such a deep, big love, and she was such a my mother was a good time. If y'all think I'm a good time, Lil Fran Hall was a good time. Four foot eleven, she was a good time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yeah, and and no one's ever gonna fill that space, but also that space is still here with us.

SPEAKER_05 54:49

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I want to talk about something else that you inspired me. What I do because we talk about love and relationship, and for a while we talked about it, and you were all about holding the highest standards, which I love, right? Yeah, and you're like, my person is there, absolutely, and they will come to me when they're supposed to be. And getting married, because like I I might have been the happiest person on the planet for you because I was like I was like thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Yeah. You know, I didn't get I didn't get engaged till I was, I didn't find my person officially until I was 51. I got engaged at 52 and I got married at 53. And he was a friend from years ago. We met in our 20s, and um, he was married at the time, and we were platonic friends. I would never in my in my life and times, I have never pursued or messed around with anybody else's man. Because my belief, and I hope y'all hear me, if you want love for yourself, do not be the reason it it leaves someone else. I think it's the most rotten thing you can do to declare that you want somebody and then go after somebody else's somebody. I think it's just nasty to do.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

And it's usually how yours is.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Listen, it comes back to you. You lose them how you get them. Yep. You lose them how you get them. So um I always thought Tony was amazing, but Tony was my amazing friend. I thought he was wonderful as my friend. And um, he lost his mom, and then he went through divorce, and then I lost my mom. And to my I I didn't know it, but Tony had been following me on Instagram for a long time. Um, and he just sent me, he was sending me messages, but I didn't know it was him because I hadn't talked to him or seen him in like 25 years. And then one day we connected and we started talking again after my mother passed, and he was one of those people like you that I that helped me walk through my grief. And then one day I looked up and it's like, oh my goodness, like I love my friend, you know, and thankfully he loved me too. And here we are.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

Tell me about love. Oh tell me about being listen, I'm living vicariously at the moment. Right now, I'm glad you said for a moment because yours is coming at me. Because l but listen, I was married for 20 years. Like I built family. Yeah, there's nothing more beautiful than watching somebody be in love.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

The way you shine, look at the way your face lights up.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Because he's my friend. Like Tony's like, Tony's my dude. Like last night, um, I fell asleep in the family room. And sometimes he'll wake me up and say, you know, you want to come to bed? And sometimes he just goes, she's comfortable. Usually the dog is wrapped around me in some way, so he just leaves us sometimes. And so last night he chose best to just not try to wake her. And so this morning I woke up, you know, like, where am I? I'm like, oh, I'm in the family room. And I happen to be walking into the living room to the bedroom at the same time he was coming out to check on me. And I saw him, and it was like Christmas. I had just seen Tony nine hours earlier, but I that's my person, you know. So when I saw it, oh hi, you know, and it's it's just joyous. And I've encouraged people, if you can do it, it's a friend. Like my girls that are um still single, um, I always say, circle the block, and don't circle the block with some raggedy dude that wasn't worth your time, but circle the block and look in your friend space. There is probably, and this is goes for all of us, male and female, there's probably a platonic friend that has been in your life for years, that has been your shoulder to cry on through every up and down. And somewhere back in the day, you were like, that's just my friend. And I'm telling you, love with your friend is the best kind of love. I've tried it a lot of different ways. Marrying your best friend is the best thing you can do. So I told my friends, like, circle the block and see who was the guy that you thought were co was corny. Or he's not tall enough for me, or he's not that's the 20s talking.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

A little bit of the 30s talking. We're in the 40s and a 50s, corny is desired.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Tell me about kind, tell me about tell me about shares the same interest or this or the same goofy, nerdy thing that I like.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Come on, we can watch the same television shows and you're kind and funny. That's the person. When we're young, we think that we need that, that, the hot guy. And I'm my husband's hot, but what supersedes how cute he is is how kind he is. Like Tony, man, Tony is Tony's the shit.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

Well, I'm gonna give a great example, please. Because there was a surprise guest at your wedding.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

And this to me is the quintessential story of like, did you marry the right person? Did you get a person who gets you?

SPEAKER_02 59:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Right? All the things we've talked about. Tell people about the surprise guest at your wedding.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Yeah, so my dad, as you as I said earlier, has has advanced Alzheimer's and doesn't walk. And so I knew that there was no way um he could come to the wedding because how would he get there? Who would care for him while he's there? Like I said, he has two caregivers. I can't ask one of them to leave the rest of the house or leave leave the care of the other two men in the hands of just one person. Um, and I felt that it would be selfish to even ask that of them. Um and in all the planning, I just made my peace with the fact that he could not walk me down the aisle. So I asked my brother, um, and he was like, Absolutely. So we were set. And so my brother walks me down the aisle. I get to the front, Tony turns to me and he says, Do you trust me? And I said, Absolutely. He said, Okay, I'll be right back. And he walked away. And everyone. Not knowing. It looked like I had been just left on down there. Like he said, I'd rather not.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

And then maybe 30 seconds to a minute later, my sweet man is rolling my father up the aisle to me. He's in his little suit, and he's when I tell you the ugly cry, when I tell you, I saw my dad and was like, and he had figured it out. My husband had got medical transport. He had gotten someone else to take Lala's place for that hour that daddy was going to be away. He had talked to the the hotel to have a place for daddy and La La to be, so I didn't see them before he came. I mean, he did it all. And my dad was able to be there to see me get married, which is something that I just was like, there's no way. And Tony was like, I'm gonna find a way. And I never asked him to find a way. I didn't, it was just something that his heart told him to do, you know. So we both, I was crying, he was crying, everybody in the co in the congregation was crying. It we were all a mess. Um, and that's one of the greatest gifts that I've ever received in my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

It would have been easy to say, okay, she's decided that this isn't part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

To me, love is in the consideration. Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

And that was considering you at the highest level.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

And then taking the steps to go make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

That's what love's supposed to be. That's what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:55

Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

And if someone thinks that's corny or weird or whatever, you're missing out. It sucks to be you missing out. It sucks to be you. Because it doesn't get better than you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

It doesn't. It doesn't, it's the little things too. Like it doesn't get better than, you know, Tony brings me tea throughout the day, which is one of the sweetest things that, you know, nobody's cared about my hydration at that level. He brings me tea and water and he cooks. Um, he is very focused on what is going on with me. I'll even go deeper and forgive me because I'm in a room with men, but I'm gonna tell me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

Yeah, we love it. We welcome it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

I, you know, I'm of a certain age, so I'm going through paramenopause, and hot flashes are a part of that. Tony knows that I'm gonna have a hot flash before I do because he can see my face go flush, or he can see that one bead of sweat that wants to fall like Denzel's glory tear down my face. And he will find a fan or start fanning me before it even fully hits. You know, if I'm sick, Tony is has got a med, it instantly has a medical degree, and he's bringing me my buckley's cough syrup and whatever. He there's been times I've had a long day at work when I come home and Tony has a bath ready to go, and the bed is already folded down. My dog is in another room so that I can breathe, and he's just like, just do that and then do that. And I will bring dinner later. Like he's just a very kind, loving, caring person. Um, and and that's because he's my friend, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

And that's everyone's you're kind and loving. And because you deserve it. Thank you. Because you guys deserve each other, as do you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

You deserve it too, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

Like, I will tell you, I I I get so happy for you. Yeah, and every beautiful post, like I literally smile through the phone and I'm like, I'm like, look at them. Yeah, right? Like, I'm like, look, look at that. That's it, that's one of those moments where you just look and you're like, okay, there are everything's right with the universe right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

And you and you hold on to it as long as you're blessed to have it, you know. I say all the time, you know, because I do have a morbid streak in me, and I think all the time, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

You have a morbid streak?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

Trust me. I say all the time, well, we all don't die anyway. When something doesn't go the way I speak.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

I raise, I raise my kids this way. My kids literally all the time say we're dying every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

And so every day I live. Every day because people think it's horribly worthy.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

I think it's great. I believe it too, because we're not getting out of this alive. And so stressing too much about things that don't matter is wasteful. And um, holding back on how you really feel about something or not chasing a dream that you have, it's all really silly. We get, we're on a, like if Artemis II has taught us anything, we are truly on a rock floating in the cosmos. We have now seen it from every possible side. This is miraculous that we happen to populate or end up on the one piece of rock in this entire solar system that we can survive on. We are breathing air and drinking water and eating food that just grows. We're making babies. This is all a miracle.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

On top of a miracle.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

On top of a miracle. So lean into the miraculous nature of this entire existence. Do good while you're here, and make sure people know that you love them while you're here because we're not going to be here forever. And the the real punchline is none of us know when we're getting snatched up. But this is the thing. There's only one thing that's gonna take us out. You're gonna survive everything until that one thing. So keep surviving and be surprised when it's your turn, because the number will be pulled.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

Well, let's talk about 2026.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Because you have a word for this.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:20

I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

It's whimsy, right? Talk about your policy this year with whimsy.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

You know, I feel like we have been just beat up for the last 10 years. You know, malignant narcissists, narcissists in power are detrimental to our spirit. We have all been on guard. And um at DEF CON, I never know if it's one or six, that's the big one, whatever the the worst one is.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

I think we need a new number. We need to be. Like a waterfall of just chaos.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

This is and and it's not just what he's doing in America. He's not doing it. The whole world. Is upside down because of one jerk, right? One ghoul. And so I'm I decided because from the time he allegedly was elected again, I don't believe when something happened. Y'all know something happened. But it's like ever since that moment, we've all been waiting for all these shoes that have been dropping, and we've been speaking death over ourselves. And there's a scripture in the Bible that says the power of life and death is in the tongue. And I believe what we say, what we speak, and what we own is what we find in our lives, right? And so what would happen if millions of people every single day said, we're cooked, let's go over, we're dead, this is, then that means we're shifting what can happen from day to day. So I decided going into 2026, I won't do that anymore. I want to believe that we're gonna win. I want to believe that we're gonna fix this. I want to believe that we're gonna get on the other side of this. And so I decided my way through is joy, and whimsy is the way. I find my way to it. So every single day, 2026, I have done, read, watched, worn, seen, searched out something whimsical. And I already am not a self-conscious person. So I sometimes I and not a great dancer, but I'll dance anybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

I'm shameless.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

I will do a I'll call out dance break and judge anybody that don't join me. You understand?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Somebody did the airport the other day, and I was dancing as I was parked with the flashers on to let the person out because I was like, I thought you said you like to dance. I don't have any shame. I'm gonna enjoy this moment and live it to the fullest.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

That's what Whimsy is. And I think there was a video a few years ago. I loved it. It was on Instagram, it was black men frolicking. Did you see those videos? Yeah. These big old black men were running through fields of grain.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

I know my best friend and business partner, Michael, sent me this, and I fell in love with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:51

Yeah, because joy is our strength. You know, we make it through this fresh hell with joy. And so I want to frolic. I want other people to frolic. I want to be, I was in line yesterday when my friend Carla went to went to lunch and I had been joking because it was a long line order, and there was a woman in front of us, and I said, Now you go home and get your stuff and get on out of here, not even ordered for a very long time. And we all laughed. And then, of course, when I got up there, I didn't know what I wanted. So I was like, What do you ever think about? Try to match. And then it was, I had been there so long that I turned to the line of like Fabi said, Y'all, I'm sorry. You know, can we just get together? You know, and we all laughed together, and I turned that environment into a place where people felt safe to talk to strangers and laugh with strangers and just take that heaviness off. And so, if that is me being silly in a line, if that's me dancing in the frozen food section because new edition is on, like whatever it is every day that I can do, I the whimsy today is gonna figure out how I'm gonna get out this parking space I done got myself in because my doggone car is against the curve and I don't know what I'm gonna do. But that's I'm gonna put a teammates. I got teammates. Get teammates in love. Exactly. I'll find a way to get out of there with Joy and Whimsy.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

Mostly because I don't want Tony to call me later and be like, I thought you were her friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

Listen, Tony's probably already tested. Well, how long is the podcast? He checks on me, makes sure I'm all right. He does.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

Talk to me about what lights you up.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

Kindness, justice, um, music, uh, great television, um, opportunities and blessings of others. Um when I see when I see the kindness of strangers online, because I have a theory. I I really think we're not as divided as social media would make us think we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

I have been saying this. This is so this is largely my platform on social media. It's like I don't we're way more alike.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

I think, and and I think we're more we're more kind and loving towards each other than these bots, because people forget there's no guardrails on social media anymore. Before that other ghoul, Elon took over Twitter. I ain't never calling it X. Before he took over Twitter, there were safeguards and guardrails to make sure verication was one, so you knew that who you were talking to was actually who they said they were. Second, anyone that was not a real person was gone. So you knew that any interaction you had with anyone, you at least were having it with an actual person. Now there are whole bot farms running a thousand phones at once, different profiles. AI has made it really easy to create an entire life. And so you're arguing, you're arguing with mist. You're arguing with zeros and ones. These are not real people, and their whole goal is to stoke division so that everybody's angry. We're fighting each other instead of the people that are really causing the problems in this world. And the people causing the problems are the corporations and the people that think they don't have enough. And they're taking everything we have so they can buy another yacht or another plane or another house. And that's the enemy. That greed is what's causing us to suffer at the grocery store and the um gas station. We are in a war right now over oil and power. People have died and will continue to die because of oil and power. That's insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

It is, because we have access to it. Like we have access to all these things. They say on the internet only 32% of the activity is humans. That means the majority is not us.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

And they're and everybody's and it makes it look like we're all mad at each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

And they well, and they want because that's what that's what feeds interaction, right? This is one of the things I love is when you post positive things and I post positive things. But the crazy part is people love that, but they can't find it. They can't find it. Because the algorithm don't feed them. No. Like they're not gonna feed that because it doesn't make people angry.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

It doesn't make them money.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

And when you get really happy, you go do something.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

You're not on social media, you're not scrolling, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

So you stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

Like when you spend time with people you love, you're not on your phone as much.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

Which is what we want.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

That's what you want.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:03

Like the phone is supposed to connect people. It's not supposed to divide us and become this, it's not supposed to be a weapon.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

And right now the weapon is aimed at us. Absolutely. And we're doing it to ourselves. Yep. You're known for speaking truth to power. I'm known for speaking truth to power.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:19

What is the thing that's strange in the world that the rest of the world kind of thinks is kind of normal, but you and I think is so strange and you just can't figure it out?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

I will never, and I'm so grateful that I will never understand mean-spirited people. And I'm not talking about bots, I'm talking about actual people that are gleeful when they harm others. I saw this thing the other day, it it broke my heart. There's a group of young men that go to places where unhoused people are, and they take alcohol and drugs and cigarettes. It's the most right. And they hand it out. Not food, not a blanket, no things that will make them spiral more into the thing that caused them to be unhoused in the first place. And they do it gleefully, and they're wearing their little meta glasses to record it. And then they funnel it to a gambling site, as in how many of these people can I make get drunk who just left out of the day meeting. They bet on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

And they bet on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

And they bet on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

And people are watching it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

There's a thing, uh 1 Timothy 6 and 10 in the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. Not money.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

The love.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

The love of money.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

Of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

It's so oftenly misquoted. It's in my book for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

Yeah, it's the love of money. And so what that is, is someone using someone else's pain to enrich themselves. And I don't understand. You're literally there with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:57

And instead of helping, you want to harm. I do not understand it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:03

You notice a personal one for me, because I was unhoused for a little while as a teenager. And like it's I've done so much advocacy work. It even bothers me when people go do kind things and videotape it. It's not supposed to. This is not what that's for.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

It's not what it's for.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

I d I'm with you. I don't understand how people can see people in hurt or need and then either be entertained by it or see it as an opportunity to take advantage of someone.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

And to harm them. I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

I don't. And again, all of this I think comes from s from social media. Uh the the push towards vanity and the push towards acquiring things and the push towards look at how great my life is and yours isn't. Um the judging of others, the uh rating others. Um I I don't I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

No, that's that's why I mine's not a highlight reel.

unknown 1:14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:57

And yours isn't a highlight reel. And like we talk about I will show up with just I am a mess or I just woke up because I want people to realize that everything is not perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:07

Because people present that persona.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Talk to me for a minute. Give somebody advice when it comes to the people who are staying quiet or afraid to speak up right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

I'm trying to, I'm trying to find grace for the ones that are truly afraid because just because I'm fearless doesn't mean everybody is, right? And I also feel like um we each we're building, we're growing something, right? And so some people till the ground till the ground, some people put the the seed in, some people water, some people fertilize. Um people are the sun, some people prune, some people harvest, right? So there's I listed maybe five or six steps to whatever we're planting for it to grow. I have learned not to um judge someone who's a fertilizer if I'm a planter, or not to judge the person that's supposed to prune because I water. So I want to start with that. Everybody's not supposed to be on the corner yelling and screaming. Um, some people financially can't do that because they need to work to feed their family, or the job they have is such that they're already in the trenches, and if they mirror cat and poke their head out and reveal what they truly believe and how they truly vote, they won't be able to do the good work that they're doing as a Trojan horse in that area, right? My issue are the ones that are protected, financially secure, and perfectly able to take a stand, who choose not to take the stand, or who worse, um choose to support the other side that is harming people for what? Money.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

Um 1 Timothy 6 and 10. All money ain't good money. And um to sell your soul, which is exactly what you're doing, if you know that what that orange ghoul is doing is wrong, and some have even spoken about it before. They said with their whole chest how wrong he was before until the opportunity to perform at a certain place for a certain amount of millions came their way. That is disgusting to me, and I will always call them out and make them more famous for that. Um, and I don't care about that either. Um, no one should have been at SoFi Stadium last week to see Kanye West. No one. And especially nobody black, because he said slavery was a choice. He said Harriet Tubman didn't really save anybody. He wore a shirt in the midst of the uprising after George Floyd that says white lives matter. He is not an ally, nor is he someone that cares about the black community or the Jewish community, or women for the most part. Um no one should have been there. He should have learned by walking out to an empty arena what his actions and his words cost others. But because it was cool, I don't understand that though to be in the spot.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

I I like if you called me and told me I got tickets for you, I'd be like, I'm taking the night off.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

I remember I had a friend when he was doing the the the gospel stuff, the church services, said, you know, you want to go? I said absolutely not. Well, he's singing gospel. I was like, is he? Because the Bible says you will know my you will know the tree by the fruit it bears. I knew the fruit. It's a rancid fruit. So I don't care what beat you put under it or what you wear while you sing it, the fruit is bad. And I'm not supporting that because that fruit harms people. What he says and does creates an environment that is unsafe for others. And if a black man says that slavery is a choice, he has now given every racist or white supremacist on this planet the the cover that they need to continue to believe that we don't deserve better.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:14

And that's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:15

It's heartbreaking. So I I don't support it and I speak out about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

Yeah, and you keep building things.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

I try.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:22

That's the beautiful part about it. Like you're building things as you go forward. You have a new project, right? Which one? Which is like, well, that's the thing with you. There's always like five, six, seven, eight projects. Yeah, but it's great. It's beautiful. Yeah, one thing that I think The Victorious.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

Yes. Right? Yeah, Hollywood Arts, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

On Netflix. Absolutely. Right? Because see, people don't understand. After all this time, you and I still light up like little kids when every project comes, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:52

Yeah, that's a that I'm so happy I got a call to do that. It's uh plain Helen Dubois from Drake and Josh has been on probably four or five different shows at this point. Has I've played that character on four or five different shows. And they're rebooting. Um, my friend Jake is rebooting um Victorious as Hollywood Arts, and Daniela Munet is the star, and they've got a new cast of amazing young, talented people that are gonna become superstars. And I can say I knew them when the same way I could say I knew Leon Thomas and Ariana Grande and Liz Gillies um way back when. Um I'm just happy to be there to support them. I'm just recurring. I pop in for a few episodes. Um, but it's it's a fun musical show. Uh everyone's gonna love it. And I love that it's on Netflix because it's gonna its reach is gonna be farther than even Nickelodeon could provide. So it's gonna be really great.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:41

I I'm biased because I still secretly want you to do a big sitcom.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:45

I do too.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:45

I still listen, I will write you a caregiver sitcom on this.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

I'm in the hunt. I'm in the hunt. I'm in the hunt.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:53

Let's say I will pave the road.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:56

We we have to work together anyway on something because at this point, besides your podcast, um, we need to work on something because we're just we're so kindred. Like maybe we should write a movie together or something. Like, we need to do something.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:06

Don't threaten me with the time. You know, I'm not I'm like, when do we start? Because like I'm like, as soon as this is over, we can talk about the things that that we can't share in front of the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

All right, you're one of the smartest people I know. I'm gonna throw you some words.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:20

And I'm gonna we're gonna do a little rapid fire. You ready? Okay, I'm ready. Just a reaction.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

A one word reaction.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:25

No, you can give me like a a phrase or or a thought for the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

Talk to me about guilt.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:31

Wasted time.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:33

Fear.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Um not real.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:38

Kindness essential. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

Desired, prejudice, disgusting, family. Everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

How about dreams?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

Worthwhile.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

Yeah. If there was no judgment and you knew you were gonna get an answer, what is the one question you would ask?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:03

The world. Yeah, because you'd be what's the one question I would ask that I that I would definitely get an answer to?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

Why are we here? That is my greatest question. I've probably I used to ask my mother that at least every other Tuesday, and and I asked Tony that all the time. Um, why are we here? Like what because the thing is, my whole life has been I'm trying to get my well done. Like, I'm trying to get there, and he's like, girl, you did it, man. I got through some obstacles and you had to, but you, yeah, you ran that race. I want a well done. So my question is, what why are we having this experience? What are we supposed to get? What are we supposed to give? What are we getting wrong? How can we fix it? What why? What is this for? You know, I I I don't I don't understand it. You know, I'm living it every day and I'm trying to to to to glean from it everything that I can, but I really want to know what it's all about and why we're here.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:05

So it's very interesting because I try really hard not to ask why questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:09

Really? Why is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:10

Because I'm because why usually is in the past and because I'm not always supposed to know the why. I look at what and how.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:18

I feel the same way about the future though.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

Like I'm someone that doesn't really ask, you know, when someone says about a five-year plan or whatever, I don't really reach into the future or even throw things there to run and catch later. Um, and I think that's why I call my, I I speak of my career as Forrest Gump because I kind of just end up places. It's not nothing I've ever done has been calculated or planned. It's all been like, oh, yeah, I'll go do that show. Sure, I'll and then it becomes something else. But tell me more about the the what and the the what and the would you say what we're doing? I like what and how. What and how, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:50

What, what do you want to do? What do you what do you plan on doing? How are you gonna do it?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:56

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:56

How are you gonna get there? How does this impact someone else?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

That's good, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:00

Because they're all present.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

If if I was gonna think for a moment about like your question about why are we here, I think this is it. Yeah, which is sitting across from somebody that you value, care, and love, yeah, and learning.

unknown 1:24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:15

Is the very essence of what it is to be alive.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:19

All of these things may seem very minor and very minute. We are tiny little specks of life on a floating rock. Like just on a floating rock. Just whizzing through space, like we should just be screaming we and it should be just one big joy ride. Absolutely. But the test is can we love each other enough to get out of our own way?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:37

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I was just thinking as I was driving over. You know, it could be blissful. You know, everybody, there's enough food, there's enough water, there's enough shelter for everyone. There really is. All we have to do is share. Like it doesn't, it doesn't have to be hard for people. And that's why my why comes in, because my question is, is it hard for some people? Because there's something that they need to learn through that. And I and I can look back on difficult times in my life, sleeping in my car, sleeping on somebody's floor. There were times that I, those are the times I learned the most about who I was, what I wanted, and it was very clear what I dreamed of and wanted for myself when you have nothing. It helps you focus on. I know I don't want this. I know that I would like to be in a bed instead of in this car, right? So those types of things are the struggle sometimes is necessary for you. There's a song called Be Grateful, and it says, God has not promised you sunshine. Um, that's not the way it's supposed to be, but a little rain mixed with love brings sunshine. A little pain helps me appreciate the good times. So a lot of times the toughest things that you go through build something in you that is insurmountable. They build something in you that no one can take from you, and that is the why of what of the bad things, right? I know that. I'm asking about the greater why, like the plan of this and why you races were chosen and genders were chosen, and why I was born in Ohio and somebody else was born in Peoria. Like that why, that greater why, which I probably will not get, I know I won't get the answer until I'm looking him in his face, and I hope that he will honor me with that answer. But yeah, that's why I asked the why.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

So race is a very interesting one, because like James Baldwin used to talk about how it's a construct.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:31

Yep, it's not even real.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:32

And he said one time, basically, it's not someone asked him why or do you think you would be different if you were born in a different way. And he said, Of course I would be different, right? But the interesting part was his assessment of kind of the why was really it's not a why, it's be in his case, because he thought it's because you're making it something different. Right? Which is somewhat of it's a choose your own adventure in some ways, right? Like to me, and that's the most beautiful part of it is it's also the question of like if God came and told everyone you must behave this way, or there will be consequences, only bad things happen to bad people, then everybody would behave, right? Right. But they wouldn't be behaving because of choice or because of actual like kindness or kindness or will or like beautiful behavior, they'd be doing it out of fear, and that wouldn't be very godly or very like soul-based.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:30

How do you do it? I mean, you're such a you're such a calm, uh, thoughtful human being. Um, and your life has not been easy. And I've always wondered, how do you do it? How do you what what well is within you that you're able to tap into um the ability to see others, to pour into others, and to selflessly move through the world as a as an outward facing owl.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:57

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:59

Um I'm kind because I know cruel.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:02

Whoo, I get the truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:03

I like I know what the cruelest, meanest, I know what betrayal is.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:07

I know what it is to be homeless and have nowhere to go and not be wanted.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:12

So I want everybody to feel wanted. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:15

But there are people that have that same story who then decide, because this happened to me, I'm going to now inflict it on as many people as I want because I'm mad at the world and everybody's going to get this. So there it's not just that you've been through things. You've you've been through them and decided to use them for the benefit of others. And that that's a testament to what is within you. That's just really special.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:39

Yeah, I want, I don't want anybody to experience what I experienced. And there's also the part of I made a decision really early. I was sued when I was like six years old when I first started working by my aunt, and it ripped my family apart. And a lot of people turned. So from the beginning of my life, that's been this weird, beautiful opportunities, horrible experiences. Right? Amazing, talented people, horrifically bad or malignant behavior.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:11

And the part I decided early on, and I remember being really young and deciding is I'm gonna love people fully, knowing that I'm gonna get my heart just trampled.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:21

It takes a lot of courage.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:22

But I would rather love somebody and I would rather get hurt and let people show me who they are than to turn myself away from one good person in the world or one person in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:35

Because you're afraid.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:35

And it kind of goes back, we talked about homelessness for a second. Sometimes people go, well, what if uh you give that person food or money or resources and they waste it? Is like I would rather feed a thousand people who took advantage of me than skip one who was desperately in need. Because I so often in my life, the person who wasn't supposed to love me or didn't have a title, the person who had no reason to invest in me was the person who handed me the greatest gift.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

And it gave me hope. Yeah, and hope is a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing. And like I will fight for that forever is when people meet me. I want to be the reason that someone believes in hope and good. I love it, as opposed to like I don't want to be the reason somebody gives up on somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:22

That's good. There it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:24

Okay, you bet.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:25

Last couple ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:28

What are the three words that describe you?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:30

Ooh. Um kind, um, curious, goofy.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:39

I love it. Okay, now what do you want the people that you work with to remember you by?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:44

That I was a safe space. Um, that I made the workday go faster because I was prepared. Um, and then I got jokes from a good time.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:56

Always a good time. Yeah, always a good time. You've been an excellent time.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:00

Okay, what's the legacy you want your loved ones to take from your life?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:03

That there's no limit to what you can do when you apply yourself and when you trust that others have your back. There's no limit.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:15

So I've had an amazing time.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:16

So have I.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

If you get to leave the world with one thing, if you could say anything to people, what's the thing you want the world to take from you?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:25

From me?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:25

Yeah, what's the message?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:27

Um It's important to see others. Um, I think, especially in this industry, we're always told or taught that we're important and we're special. And I I learned, I had the blessing of working with Gary Marshall before he passed away. May he rest in peace. One of the kindest humans I've ever encountered.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:48

We played ball together for years. He's one of the things I used to raid his sets as a little kid. Yeah, just so I could listen to the way he built things and talked to people. Because he was a great leader.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:59

Great leader.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:00

And a kind leader.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:01

Kind, kind. And and a lot of the people, um, maybe almost all of the people you worked with had that same spirit. He chose people that were like him. But he said, it's it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Um, and I that and I always butcher that quote because I don't think I even said it right that time. But the bottom line is you can walk around as if you're somebody, and okay, great, you're somebody. But do you have the ability to make other people feel like they're somebody too? And I I the way I took Gary's um motto and the way I model it is either we're all special or nobody is. Either we all matter or nobody does. I'm not allowed to decide that because I'm on television, because I that all of a sudden I deserve. No, no, we all deserve. We all deserve to be loved and seen and cared for. And one of the things that I do every day, this is part of my whimsy, but even before this year, if I see someone wearing something that is interesting, I'm gonna tell them I like it. If it's a little hat, a little pin, some suspenders, you know, if somebody is is carrying something or their dog is, I'm gonna find a way to compliment a stranger or a few strangers every single day because it's everyone that, especially if they're they have some flair. I'm really serious about the flair thing. If someone has put on a bow tie or a fascinator hat or they have interesting shoes, they didn't do that just because they love it. They did it because they wanted to take it out in the world and show the world. See this cool little hat. And I feel like I've seen their countenance rise when you see it and you tell them, that's really cool. I see your hat. You know, I'll see them, all right, red hair. I see them braids. Like I'll I'll yell out my car at a stranger and just keep going. I think random compliments are the kindest thing you can give people. I've been in Ralph's getting my groceries and somebody's bagging the mess out of them groceries. I'd be like, you know, you better go and put that rice next to them eggs and you better do that thing. I it's you lose nothing. My favorite quote is a candle loses nothing by lighting another. Light light candles. Just light candles.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:08

You have lit not just this candle, but my world for years. Um, the mission of lighthouse is the idea that lots of people are lighthouses. Yeah. It's my subtle mission in this.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:21

And I couldn't pick a better person to shine and light other candles. I love you so much. Love you too, brother. And I'm so thankful for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:29

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:31

Yeah.