Analog Leader
Helping Supervisors and Managers become true People Leaders through human-centered, Analog skills.
Analog Leader
Kelsey Gibby
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In this episode, Kelsey talks about how she got her start at 22 being thrown into planning a convention for 10,000 people, what it's like balancing a big career with two kids, and why she thinks the best leaders are the ones who just aren't afraid to be themselves.
We also get into some real talk about being held back at work, feeling stuck in the middle of your career, and what it means to actually support the people on your team instead of just managing them.
And I sat down with my director at the time and I asked them like, hey, these are the things I really want to accomplish and grow in my career. And they laughed at me.
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to Analog Leader. Today we have our guest, Kelsey Gibby, with us today. Let's start off with you introducing yourself. Tell us about you.
SPEAKER_02Well, like you said, I'm Kelsey Gibby. I'm a corporate events manager. I've been working for over a decade in events and in marketing for lots of different companies. But I'm currently with a Fortune 100 company in the tech world. So that's what I currently do.
SPEAKER_00So 10 years experience, you started into the workplace at a fairly young age.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I was 22 for when I first got my first job out of college. And yeah, I just fell into the events and marketing world. I've always wanted to work in events, but my first job was more than I anticipated, which was really exciting, and more of like baptism by fire with learning a whole bunch of things that I didn't know prior. So it now I'm here still working in it, and it's still fun and exciting, and still learning a lot more.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. So 22 years old, you've graduated college, you start your first job. Let's back up a little bit. Tell me what your degree is in. Where did you go to school? How was that experience?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I went to Utah Valley University and I graduated in integrated studies, which I was able to choose multiple things. So I chose communications and I chose hospitality management. Because at the time I was interested in events, but I there wasn't a program for it at the time. So I had to basically make up my own degree to get that experience of I want to work in marketing and communications, but I'm also really good at planning events. And so that's the degree I chose, which was great, but I knew that during college I had to get work experience to be able to like prove to people that I know what I'm doing. So each year of college, I did an internship. So I did different types of internships. I worked for March of Dimes to get that kind of exposure of nonprofit event experience. And then I worked for Real Salt Lake, getting the sports events experience. And then I worked for Adventurer Capital, getting that type of experience with working with angel investors and how to put on those types of events. So I have all that different type of event experience because I wanted to see what my strengths were in each of those areas and what I liked. And then when I graduated college, I had around three years technically of work experience with different types of internships. I also was working full-time at a shipping company, like managing like shipping type stuff too. So it was a busy couple years. And then as I was interviewing after I graduated college, I landed a job at a network marketing company. But at the time I didn't know it was a network marketing company. I thought it was a health company. So I became their event coordinator there when I started. They're like, okay, great, we need you to plan a convention for 10,000 people coming to Salt Lake City worldwide. In between then, we need you to plan a trip to Mexico for people to qualify for for our sellers. And then we need you to do like five other events. And me coming out of college was doing a few events at a time to like, yeah, I have to run a convention in the next five months and then also take people to Mexico. I'm like, I don't know how to do any of that. So I had to figure all of that out with like who do I need to work with, working with the leadership of the company, like what are your goals and expectations, working with sales and marketing, and like what's the budget? So lots of different types of people. So I had to figure all of that out at 22 years old. And so I did have to ask them for help. Like, I can't do this. I need someone with more experience to help me accomplish everything you want to accomplish if we want to invest in all these things. And so that kind of started this journey of my events life. So, and also working in marketing too, because you can't just plan an event, you have to market the event because you they both go hand in hand. So that's uh kind of my experience.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting you say uh marketing and event planning goes hand in hand. I believe that marketing and everything goes hand in hand. I always tell people that are in the leadership space that not only do you have to be a good leader, but you also have to be a good salesperson. You have to market yourself, you have to market your ideas, you have to market the job that they do. So I think marketing is one of those primal skills that we all need to work on. Yeah. So tell me about you personally. So 22 years old, you you you graduate from college, you start a job that it sounds like you were drinking from the fire hose right off the bat. What's going on in your personal life?
SPEAKER_02So uh I'm from Utah, so very typical Utah girl. Uh I got married young, 19 years old. Um and so that was awesome, really great. So kicking off my life very early at a young age. Um, and then um we both went to school and then got our big jobs and then got a house and got all that. And then we had our first kid um five years into our marriage, and then so now right now we have two boys, seven and four. And so uh Nate and Dan.
SPEAKER_00Nate and Dan.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Now I've had the pleasure of meeting Nate and Dan, and uh you seem like you have a very well put together life. How do you manage that? I mean, with a with a big job that you have and all of the priorities that you have in in life, how do you manage that?
SPEAKER_02So I don't know sometimes. You just uh you just do what you have to do. And like working with my husband, like we have to have a good, like not I don't want to say working relationship, but you have to like communicate with each other on everything that needs to happen and needs to get done, and also making sure that we're spending time with our children and making memories with them, but also like going through the day-to-day life of everything. And so being an event planner is really helpful because um I don't get overwhelmed with a lot of things just because of the nature of my job, and so it carries into like my personal life too. Like my husband will say, like, Kelsey, you just need to stop and calm down a little bit and enjoy life instead of being go, go, go all the time. These are all the things that we have to do. But um, you don't, you just do it. Like you just when you become a mom or becoming a parent, you're like, okay, this is you just enter into a different mode where like this is just what you have to do to get stuff done and take care of your children and give them the best life uh that you can offer them, and also like taking care of yourself and your relationship and finding the balance. It's really hard, but like it's it's possible.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So as we get as we get into this today, we're gonna talk about priorities at work, we're gonna talk about priorities at home. Do you believe that your work influences your home life more or your home life influences your work more?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a give and take, depending on like what's going on with your work life and what you have to accomplish there, and communicating that with your family, like, hey, these things need to happen at work for in order for me to like keep my job and to um be successful in that, but also communicating with your work of like, hey, like here are my boundaries that for my family that I need to keep in order to keep my home life happy and safe, and also for my mental health, too, of finding that balance between the two. And so there's like seasons for each of those of what you need to do. Like, I have a big project at work, and this needs more attention, but finding that balance with your personal life is super important, and it just requires communication between all of those different types of people.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So so you said the word boundaries. Do you create boundaries between work and home and also from home and work? You said boundaries each way?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, boundaries each way, um, and that's something that my work's really good at. Like, hey, let us know like what you guys can take on. Like, these are our expectations. If something does happen in your personal life, we want to help you have that time to take care of what you need to take care of. And one thing that one of my directors tells us is I don't care what time you work, as long as you're getting your work done and you are working the the way you need to work for the teams that you are on, like that's all she cares about. Um and so we find that balance between like my our work and also our personal life. So like get what we need to done, but it really depends on the leader that you have too, so you can accomplish that and set those boundaries.
SPEAKER_00So let's let's dive into that a little bit. There's there's some really important facts to pull out of the out of what you just said. The leader has a big role in how well you feel isolated or insulated, I should say, from your work life and your home life. They also have a big role in how well you are able to accommodate your home life and fit that into a a big job like you have, obviously. Tell me a little bit about some of the leaders from 22 years old up to today who have made a difference for you in a positive way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so when I was younger, I didn't have, when I started my career, any kids yet. And so it it was a little different too. So I didn't need to like focus on like, oh, I have to be home at a certain time and be taking care of my kids and putting them to bed. It's like, oh, I can work till 11 p.m., get what I need to done. So it was more of a go-go-go situation. And I didn't mind like working those long hours and doing all those different things. But when I became a mom, and I was at a different company at the time when I did become a mom, the leaders that I had there was they were very like, you need to take care of your family. So you put your family first and just communicate with us on what you can do here at work. But our expectation is you still need to accomplish these projects. And so I've been very lucky to have really good managers and directors and like overall leaders of departments of having that type of mindset. And being a woman, there's an understanding, like when you become a mom, is like, yeah, you have kids at home that need you. So we expect you to also like to do that too, and not like give like, oh, for what am I trying to say? There's a quote that I heard. Um you don't have to work like you don't have kids. You have kids, and that's our expectations. You you work and then you're also a mom, too. So I've been very like lucky to have really good managers that understand that too, to be able to balance that so well.
SPEAKER_00You are you are fortunate to have that, and then that's not the case for everyone at work. You know, I I've worked mostly in factories on manufacturing lines and in places where you have a set amount of hours you have to work, you can't have a cell phone with you. You take breaks at a certain time, you take lunch at a certain time, and your scheduled hours are you're you're on a line, you know. Uh I call it the treadmill, you're on the treadmill, and you've got to make sure that treadmill never slows down the whole time. So it's it's fortunate that you're in a position that's that like that, but sometimes do you feel like there's pressure on you to kind of set that home life aside?
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely, especially during like I have busy seasons where I have to work late, like I know I will have to. And so it's just yeah, work my nine to five, pick up the kids, take care of them, put them down for bed, and then back at my desk and working till midnight some nights. And so and those are just some of the seasons that you just have to be in to, you know, accomplish what you need to at work and also accomplish what you need to at home.
SPEAKER_00So sometimes it's not only just your your physical health, you don't get enough sleep for one night, but sometimes your mental mental health is affected by the fact that the work that you have to get done, you push yourself to get that work done, Korea.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Like this is my career, this is what's helping support my family, and so you have to sacrifice uh a few hours of sleep to get what you need to done.
SPEAKER_00So d what is most motivating to you? The love of the job and the career that you have or the support of your family?
SPEAKER_02Definitely the support of my family. Um I wouldn't be where I am today without their support and without their motivation for me to to work and to keep moving up in my career and to keep pushing to grow.
SPEAKER_00So this is a loaded question. If you could quit work working tomorrow, if money were no object and you could quit working tomorrow, would you?
SPEAKER_02Yes, but I definitely film my time undoing other things. Um, just because I I'm a busybody. I I'm I've never stayed at home before. I've always been a working mom. And so that question to me sounds nice, but in reality, I I don't think I would just just be a stay-at-home mom. I would find other things to fill my time to because I have a lot of skills and I want to use them. And so I'll probably find different hobbies or just some type of thing to do to fill my time.
SPEAKER_00So is it a fair statement to say that your job is important to you in the way that you are you fulfill that job, it fulfills you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. Like um, I call it the event tie. When an event goes really well and everyone's really happy with the outcome of the event, it's like months to like sometimes over a year of planning and executing and pivoting plans and putting pivoting plans again. And then once the event actually happens and is over and everything's successful, and every your leaders are happy, the clients are happy, and the attendees are happy with the success and outcome, and you're like, yes, like this feels so good because I put so much effort and time into this to make it such a success. And then seeing like the numbers after your event of how well it did, too, you're like, yes, everything that I plan worked out. And you just like I want to keep doing that.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So let's let's get into some of the gaps that you see. In your career, and and you can start as early as you want, uh, throughout your your life up to now, your working life, have there been times where you felt like you were in the wrong place, the the company didn't appreciate you, the organization you worked for didn't value your your uh contribution, and maybe your immediate supervisors didn't didn't really do a very good job of supporting you in your job. Have there been times throughout your your career now where you felt like that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. Um early on in my career I really wanted to move up because I felt like I was delivering a lot of success to all the projects I was working on, working with different teams. And at the time, I'm like, I want to make more money. I want to move up to the next position with within the company. And I sat down with my director at the time and I asked them, like, hey, these are the things I really want to accomplish and grow in my career. And they told me, well, they laughed at me at first. They're like, you're so young, you either have to get a master's degree to move up or 20 years of a work experience to move up to the next level. I'm like, really? She's like, that's what I had to do. Is I had to, I've been here for like over 20 years at this company, and that's the process that I had to go through. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, um So they just threw water on that fire. Yeah, and so I felt really unmotivated to stay with that company because I'm like, I'm ready to grow, I'm ready to move up, and so and I really love working at this company because of the my coworkers and the incentives from that company and what I was doing was I was really passionate about and the types of events and projects I was working on that like I felt so much motivation after completing each of them. But it came to a time in my career, I'm like, it's it's time to move on if I really want to grow. And so, and that's what I had to do. And so that was really disappointing to hear that from somebody that I reported to that I thought was like, yes, let me help you accomplish this, like let's get you there, instead of was kind of laughing in my face about what I wanted to do because of where I was at in my career at the time.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell So in in your in your positions that you've had throughout, especially the one that you're talking about now, did you feel like the manager looked at it as though I've done all of this and I've I've ticked the boxes and I've got my degree and I've put in all the work, and unless you go the same path that I went, you're not gonna move up. Is that what it made you feel like?
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00I think that in business, that's one of the things that companies do a lot of is they paint people into a corner and they say, you've got to get out of that corner the same way I did. You've got to dig your way out of that corner and and find success the way I found success, which is really it's unfortunate because the best people aren't the most always the most qualified. The best people are quite often the ones with the most heart and the most desire and the most uh tenacity towards doing the job with the s with all the talents and skills that they have, rather than the person who's willing to get down in the trenches, do the work, uh mark mark the the links along the way of how many years you've been in school, how many years you've been in business, and so on and so forth. Sometimes that young voice that comes along is the one that should be put in the position. You do do you feel that uh that you were held back by that?
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Oh, absolutely. And in some ways I'm still held back by that. Um just that type of mentality of you have to do it this way because that's how I did it. And if you don't do it this way, then good luck. Like find another way because I won't help you uh accomplish it.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Sure. Sure. You know, one of the things that I tell people, I I have the opportunity to go out and consult with a lot of different companies. And I always talk about my experience from the past that when you tap into what it is that makes people who they are, you find the personal skills that they have, analog skills that they have. Those are the things that really separate a good person from a great person, is how well they're able to build relationships, how well they're able to communicate with one another, and how well they're able to inspire the people who work for them. Uh in your positions that you've had, how many times have you been like a frontline worker? And are you now or have you been in a situation where you supervise frontline workers?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, w with the position I'm in, it's a mix of both. I execute and do the work, but I also supervise a lot of the things that need to happen at the event. And so I'm not afraid to get down and like do the work. Like we need to set up these banners, we need to like organize these giveaways, we need to get this cleaned up, we need to unbox things from palettes and like set them up on the stage or in these booths or any type of venue. Like, I'll get down and do that. But I'm also in charge of the overall event of how who's there working, what needs to happen. And so it's a mix of both. Um, being more of a working manager, frontline worker, and also supervising everything, and then working with leadership once everything is done and walking them through what has happened. And so, yes to both of those.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So who set your priorities?
SPEAKER_02So uh it's a mix of both. And so our team, we like these are our priorities for the event, and then we go and work with the leadership that has the overall say of what they want the outcome to be. So we set up um a project brief on what we think the KPR KPIs will be, and from like past events and what we want to accomplish, and then we work with the management and leadership team on what they think this what this event needs to accomplish or this project, and we work with them from there on what needs to happen at this event or for this project or campaign.
SPEAKER_00So the relationship that you have with your superiors, with your equals, with the people who report to you, and I'm guessing that you deal with a lot of contracts. And even, you know, outside companies that help with the events in that too. From hotel companies to uh facilities maintenance and management companies. So with all of those different relationships, how do you how do you juggle all of those different relationships? I mean, that's that's the whole spectrum of every kind of relationship you could have. How do you juggle that?
SPEAKER_02Honestly, sometimes I don't know.
SPEAKER_00That's fair.
SPEAKER_02Um but one of the things that I've learned is just kindness goes a long way of being kind to people and clear communication and setting expectations with them up front. So everyone will have success. Um and with working where I work, everyone wants to be successful and have success to keep those relationships strong and to keep um the event going too. So I for me kindness goes a long way having that type of communication with different vendors, with different teams, just because like we're all trying to do our best. No one wants to do a bad job. And so just starting out with a good working relationship is always my number one priority.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I think that when people feel like they're valued, when they feel like that what they do matters, they always do their best work. You know, it's it's pretty rare when you when you make a person feel valued and you give them a little bit of of lead, you know, you let them have their uh their own way a little bit and do do the job the way that they would have it done. It seems like everyone gets on the fa on the same page a little bit quicker when they're valued, when they're listened to, when they're cared for. Would you agree?
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. Like if people are hired to do a position, they know how to do it. And so you have to put trust in them to do the job. And but you need to set expectations of like, hey, this is what we have upcoming, this is what we need to accomplish. This is what we need you to do. Can you do it? And just let them do it. And if they need help along the way, of course, help them. Provide them what they need. Don't keep keep information from them from them doing their job that they were hired to do.
SPEAKER_00It reminds me of a a skit from Saturday Night Live of all places. There was an IT professional, and he would come in, someone was having a problem with their with their laptop, and the IT professional would stand over their shoulder and say, Show me what's what's going on. And they'd start to show the problem, and he'd say, Well, have you turned it off? And yeah, I turned it off. Well, hit control alt-delete, and then the person starts to do it, and then he finally tells them, just move. And he moves them out of the way. I think the the tagline there is move. And they move, he fixes the computer, and then he says, There, and he lets them back. What that creates is a situation where the IT guy is going to be the busiest guy in the planet. You know, he's gonna be the person who's always having to fix the computer because he never takes the time to coach, teach, train, and make the person feel like they're cared for. Have you been in a situation like that in your career?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Uh like I think in every phase of my career there's always been a person like that. And I'm sometimes I'm guilty of that just because of how fast we need to get something done. I'll say, move, like I'll I'll do it for you in a nice way. But one thing that um that I always strive to do is like, yes, I'll do this right now, but watch me. Like, so you can learn and the next time you can do it. Um, but there's a lot of people that I know who like it's hard for them to coach and mentor and to get in that type of mindset to offer that. Um, because it's it's hard to like, this is everything I know. I have to like somehow teach you and mentor you about this. And it it's hard for those to do that. Sure.
SPEAKER_00So that gets us to a really important question. Do you believe that your skills in your profession are more important to where you're at right now than your interpersonal skills, or did your interpersonal skills play a bigger part than your technical skills?
SPEAKER_02Um I would say interpersonal skills helped me a lot. Also I think with the t where I work, um having from what I've been told, a welcoming personality, not people not being afraid to come up and talk to you and ask you questions and what needs to happen, and not being intimidating. Um because it breaks down the walls of having that communication and being able to talk to someone and being open on what needs to happen. Because along the way, like you can pick up skills over many years, and like I even now I'm picking up even more skills as I'm learning and growing. And so it's definitely who you are that can really open a lot of doors and how to work with people. So I think for me, yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I would agree. I totally agree. I believe that interpersonal skills are the secret sauce. Anyone can learn how to do a specific t task. There are some who are a lot better at it. But if you are extremely good at a task at a at event planning or whatever it might be, but have no personal skills, interpersonal skills, and you don't build good relationships, you scare people away, you're gonna have a hard time succeeding.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Yep.
SPEAKER_00So let's so let's let's turn our focus just a touch. On this podcast and and with Analog Leader, one of the things we want to do is we want to talk to people who are new in the in the leadership role or maybe have been in the leadership role for a while, but haven't received a lot of coaching and training that helps them get those inner interpersonal skills. I truly believe that interpersonal skills are something that we can develop, that we can grow, and that are truly a skill. They're not a talent that you have or don't have, they're a skill that you can learn and you can grow. So one of the things that we're trying to do with this with this entire organization is find those people who are struggling to find their voice and to build relationships and to uh inspire others in a way that they feel empowered to do their job. So, what are some of the things that you feel are lacking from the people who s who lead you? What are some of the skills that they should work on in order to be better leaders?
SPEAKER_02For me, it's just being yourself. A lot of people that I have worked with in the past and currently, um especially where I'm in the corporate world, is they're robotic. They are like, I have to protect myself. Anything I say could be used against me, and so I have to act a certain way and say certain things. And to a team, it's very like, I can't really openly talk to this person and have like a one-way conversation like this because they won't be open with me, or they're gatekeeping information, and and you can sense it. And so I I think it's really important to be yourself, not to be afraid, to joke around and like ask your team about their personal life and really get to know people instead of treating them like we just work together, and that's fine to have that relationship. Like, no, this is just work, we can have a working relationship, these are my boundaries. But when people do open up who that is a leader and who's not afraid to be themselves and talk about their life, it it makes that balance of working together easier. And so that's something that has been very common for me in my career is having people like be very robotic and not and being afraid to like show who they are. And so that's something that I've gone through a lot.
SPEAKER_00So I in in a previous job, I used to go to training every year, and they called it union avoidance training. And it was how you what you can say and what you can't say to an hourly associate so that you can keep yourself out of a union, out of court, out of a lawsuit, whatever that those kind of things might be. And if you listen to a lawyer tell you what you can and cannot say, it forces you to somewhat be robotic. Do you believe that that might be in one of the problems in in industry today?
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. Um because anyone can pull out their phone and record, like, hey, so-and-so said this, and being able to quickly send it and like a lot of things like that, yeah, can happen. And so I I understand like I need to protect myself, but you can also still do that and be a real person at the same time. That that's what I believe, at least, and that's what I strive to do.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I I totally agree with you, and and I think that that's one of the things that anyone who is in a leadership position should try to do is understand that if you're just a good person, you won't ever be in that situation where you need to worry about lawsuits and you won't need to worry about what you say or don't say. If you look at the person and say, I value that person and I want to make them comfortable, I want to make them happy, I want to make them listen, you know, feel like they're listened to, I truly want to serve that person. If that's your goal, I think that you'll always stay out of court. I think you'll always stay away from those things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I 100% agree with that.
SPEAKER_00So one of the things that we talk about all the time is that once you are once you are put in a leadership position, you're no longer in the industry that you're in. So for instance, I was in the warehouse industry when I was first promoted, and I had a uh plant manager tell me one time, as of today, you're no longer in the warehouse industry. As of today, you're in the people industry. I think that that gets lost, especially in corporate America, where the people at the corporate level believe that they are uh they are behoven to the to the customer or to the client. They believe that their services are to serve the client. But in actuality, it's the frontline worker who serves the client. They're the ones who carry out all of the different duties. You know, at a call center, the person who picks up the phone and answers the call is the one who's dealing with the client, not the call center manager. The call center manager is in a situation where they need to support the person who answers that call. Their job is to support that frontline worker. And I think that gets lost in industry right now. Does that happen in your work?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And especially where I work, um, I'm the one helping be face-to-face with the clients, with providing the stage of making the clients feel welcome and special, and providing that hospitality to them when they walk into my event. And also running the campaign for the event is making sure the information's correct. Everyone has what they need prior before coming to the that event. And so it's very like I focus on the clients, but everyone else is also focused on the clients. And so it's just a very go, go, go mentality. And so sometimes our the teams that are executing don't feel valued in and supported in what they're trying to do with accomplishing all that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So if you have a manager that comes up and says, Kelsey, did you get this done? Did you get that done? And they go through the checklist of everything you were supposed to get done, you now have to take time out of your busy schedule to inform them of everything that yes, you have gotten done. And they're worried about pleasing the client. When in actuality, if they would come up to you and say, Kelsey, what do you need from me? Wouldn't that be a better way to approach it?
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. Um that does happen, like checklists, let's get this done, and then at the very end, are you okay? Do you need anything? And then at that point, you're like, yeah, it's fine, let's just move on.
SPEAKER_00So let me let me tell you a story. There was a grocery store worker, and uh she'd been working at this grocery store checking out customers at her at her cashier, at her till for 25 years. She'd worked at the same grocery store for 25 years. And through that time, she told me that she went through 18 different immediate supervisors in those 25 years. 18 different people supervised her. And she said every person that came in there would have to know, do I know what I'm doing? Do I, you know, I'd have to show them what I do, and I'd have to teach them and train them, but then they were always coming by, say, Did you do this? Did you count your drawer? Did you say hello to the customers? Did you ask them if they found everything they need? And they were always quizzing me on something that I've been doing for 25 years, and they're a new manager in this store, never been in this store before. She says, I know my customers by name. I know what they buy. And if they come in and they've and they're missing something, I'll say, Did you you didn't get the milk today? Did you need some milk? Oh, I forgot that. And they'll go back and get the milk. My job as a cashier is to make sure that those people feel welcome in this store, they feel cared for, and that when they leave, they had a great experience. And my manager is coming up and asking me, Did I did I fulfill the needs of my customers? What I really need is a manager who will listen to me when I need a day off or something like that. And I think that's too often in industry, the supervisors and managers get so caught up in the day-to-day minutiae of the tasks that have to be be done that they forget their true job is to support the individuals. So as you start to move up in your company, I mean you're you're very young and upwardly mobile and in a great job right now, but I'm guessing that if we talk 10 years from now, you're going to be in a lot different position than you're in. As you grow and as you move up through the company, what kind of things would you like to work on? What would you like to be known for?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. And something I'm struggling with right now because I feel like I'm in a place where I don't know how or where I want to grow with the company I'm at. Do I leave the company and try to grow elsewhere? But I like the company that I'm at. And like what's my growth? Is my growth just being stable right now and just um having what I have now because I it's familiar and it's re right now repeatable because I know what expectations are. Or do I want to go the next level, um, which is working with more executive leaders and having a different set of responsibilities and rules? I'm kind of stuck in the middle right now. Sure. So I don't really know like what's the best path forward in my career because I have 30 more years, maybe 40 now, 50, um, of working. And so it's to me, I'm like, yes, I have time, but um do I will the right time come up for me, or do I just need to make that happen? Sure. So that's where I feel stuck in the middle right now of what I want.
SPEAKER_00I think that's common. I think that people do get stuck in a position where they feel like, I know, I know how this company works, I know my job, and I don't know what the next level looks like. And the fear of the unknown is one of the greatest fears we all have as human beings. You know, it's like I don't know what that's going to look like to move into that next level up. And I think sometimes that holds us back. But it's interesting, you said w one of your biggest fears when you do that is how how are you going to be treated at that next level and dealing with those executive people, that's kind of frightening sometimes, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because you know, you don't know who they are at that level. You've worked with them in a different capacity. But when you move on to the next level, like what does that look like in that realm? So, and that's something, I'm like, am I prepared for that? I've been able to like learn on the job and grow as like things come up, and I'm like, okay, I'll remember that for next time. I know what to do. But am I ready for that? Or is it time for a pivot and go to a different industry and like learn a completely different skill set and do that instead? And so that's where I'm kind of floating right now with what's the next step for my career and what makes the most sense. Um that's where I'm like currently sitting.
SPEAKER_00Well, sometimes it's easier to make a clean cut. Sometimes it's easier to say, okay, I'm gonna leave the company that I'm at, the job that I'm at, and I'm gonna start something new. And you can develop those that job from a different perspective. There's always there's always something liberating about a clean cut.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But that's not always the best decision financially uh and for your mental health. You know, sometimes knowing that you're you're with a company that uh that you like and with people that you like, moving up in that company is a little bit harder because your personality has to change. As you as you take more and more responsibility, your personality has to change a little bit. Do you agree?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes. Like when you take on more responsibility, you're like, I feel like when you become a parent, you're like, oh, I am in charge of these children, of this household and of my life. Like I have to be the one to make these decisions, and I want to look like I know what I'm doing in front of these people, like with leading your children. And it also comes with like leading a team of I still want to be relatable, but people are looking up to me for leadership and the support, and I need to provide that. And so, yeah, absolutely. You need to change and figure out what that change is on who your team is, but also you have um people you need to report to that are above you. And it's it's a very fine balance of figuring out what that is and what you're trying to accomplish with with both sets of teams that you're trying to like work within and keep everyone happy, but also keeping yourself happy too.
SPEAKER_00So you've just verbalized what I believe is wrong in a corporate America, and and that is that too often we worry about how do we how do we please the person who's above me? How do I please my manager, my supervisor, my CEO, how do I deliver to them what they need? And I think that that's where we really get bogged down in in the wrong perspective. Whereas if you're put in charge of people and they are in your charge, they are you're responsible for them, for their for their the KPIs that they deliver, for their personal life, for their time off, for whether or not they get the right benefit package signed up. You're responsible to those people. If you worry more about how do I please my manager or the next level up, then we're focused on the wrong things. And that's exactly what I believe most of corporate America does. All of the large companies that I have ever worked with, every single one, Kelsey, has had that problem where they put these blinders on, they say, my job is to please my manager. Yet the most successful managers that I know are the ones who put all of their time and effort into pleasing the people who report to them, their subordinates, if you will. It's when you support your team, they push you up. You don't it's it's one of those things where the people who do the work, they're the ones who are going to say whether or not your department is successful, not you. So the more support that you can give them and the more you make them feel like they own the work, I think that's really where it becomes a situation where you're working on the right uh priorities and KPIs rather than pleasing the manager. If you're trying to just please the manager, all you gotta do is know one person, know everything that they want and tell them everything that they want, and uh, you know, forget about the people on the front line, they just take care of business. I gotta please my manager. That's the kind of supervisors and managers that really fail at work and that no one wants to work for. Yet if you focus on your team and your team excels in everything, people notice and they start to say, Kelsey, what are you doing? How come you're, you know, why is your team so successful? And you deliver everything that your manager wants without ever asking the manager, without ever really interacting with that manager in a way where you're looking at them as they're at a higher level.
SPEAKER_02No, I love that because uh in my career, it's people above me have been very fearful of not fulfilling what who they're reporting to. And so it's very fear-based. And so then we're all afraid of not accomplishing our goals and not making those certain people happy because the people, the person that we're reporting to is so afraid of making the wrong choice, of doing the wrong thing. And so it it creates um not a sketchy environment. You're just tiptoeing all the time around like, is this the right decision? And so it it feels like um unsteady as a team. And for me, wanting to grow in my career, and um I don't have a team that I'm over currently, but when I execute events, I do bring a lot of people together as if they were my team to accomplish like this event. I try to make them feel what you explained of feeling value. And trusting them to do what they need to do, but how can I do that better if I did have my own team eventually in the future? Like what advice could you give me on accomplishing that?
SPEAKER_00So the the best advice that I can give anyone is one, never lose your personality, never lose who you are, never learn lose why you're at work. The love of the job that you have, the career that you chose, the family that you have behind you, and the place that you live, your parents, your your upbringing, all of that all culminates into who Kelsey Gibby is. Never lose sight of that. You are never your position. If you were the CEO of a company and you let that define your personality, it will be different than the person who's sitting here with me right now. And if that's the case, then you're going to have a tough rotaho as far as being a CEO goes. In my role as a CEO, one of the things I try to do is that I make sure that every single person who works with me knows that they work with me. That yes, I'm I make the ultimate decisions, but we we do things together as a team. No one works for me. Everyone works with me. I think that that's one of the biggest pieces of advice I can give you is that never never look at people as though they work for you. They work for your customers. They work for the client, they work for the end result of the work that they put out, and you work for them, you support them. So that's that's advice number one. Advice number two is as you grow, always remember that people who are subordinate to you are here for a reason. And it might be a young 22-year-old person who just wants to get into industry and wants to take their degree and and and grow with it. It might be that aggressive young person that you were at 22 years old. It might be a mother of four children who uh lost her husband a while ago and is trying to do the best that she can for her family, and every day she struggles to make sure that the bills get paid, the meals get cooked, and the kids get taken care of. Every single person has a story. Everyone who comes to work comes to work for a specific reason. And that reason can be anywhere from this is the job I love to I have to be here because I have bills to pay. And if you don't know who that person is and why they're here, you're never going to be able to serve them in the way that they need to be served. So never lose those interpersonal skills that have gotten you where you're at right now, that have made people say, you know, Kate Kelsey's really easy to talk to. She's someone that cares about me. The higher up you go, the more that should come out. And in fact, the the problem in industry today is that the higher up we go, the l the more we protect those things, and the less of that comes out. We worry a lot more about the deliverables, the KPIs, what's the customer, what's the client wanting and seeing. But again, as I've said this a few times and I'll say it one more. You don't serve your customer. When you lead people, you don't serve the customer. The people you lead serve the customer. You serve the people you lead. Never lose sight of the fact that leadership is a privilege that is given to you by those that you lead. The company can give you the position and the title, but the authority to be a leader is given to you by the people you lead. And you need to make sure that you're grateful for that, and you never betray their trust, and you always make them feel listened to, cared for, and a part of your team. That's the best advice that I can give you for the future. But what advice can you give me?
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say, what did Gen Z do now? This is mean clapping. Like that was really good. I like that advice.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_02Advice I can give you as in what way?
SPEAKER_00So I am 65 years old. I retired from one company and started this one that I'm in right now. Uh working with my my partners over in Europe. They started the company and I've I run the North American division now. And we're hoping to grow this company. But one of the things that I constantly see, Gen Z uh millennials like yourself in the workforce, I uh I don't relate with them as well as I wish I did. I don't know how to better approach that group of people, young people in the workforce, especially young leaders in the workforce. What advice can you give me on to how to better interact with those people and help them get some of the skills that I can help them with?
SPEAKER_02Oof, that's a good question. Um right now, um, it's where I work, uh Gen Z is now entering more of the they're like five years and like three to five years into their career now. And when I work with them and like we we joke around, like, oh you're Gen Z, like what's trending right now? But a lot of them just they want to fit in. They they want to be seen as like, I can do things, like let me try, let me do it. And they just want to be given the opportunity. And so they they're really trying just to like show themselves, like, hey, like I can do this. Because um, I read something on the internet the other days, they are like the generation that didn't know life without internet at all. Like they grew up with the internet, and so right now they're really trying to like compete with themselves and like other Gen Z people of like, hey, I can do this, let me do it. Like, like I'm ready for this. They just want to be given like the opportunity to at least try and not be seen as like, oh, you're so young, like you're so little. They don't want to hear that. And I still hear that too occasionally of like, oh, did you just graduate college? Like you're like, look at you. Like that gets said to me a lot at work. I'm like, no, I I have two kids and I've been working for over a decade and I know what I'm doing. And they just like kind of smile. You can kind of feel like the little pat on your head of like, sure, sure. Um but they just want to be seen as like, no, I can do it. You hired me to do this, let me do it. So that's what I've experienced so far with working with them.
SPEAKER_00One of the things that I I it's a trap that I set for myself. I forget that the people who are in, especially Gen Z, they've really never experienced an economic downturn. I mean, the last big economic downturn was in 2008, and they were in school, or maybe not even in school yet, you know. That's we're talking 18 years ago that that that happened, and now they're entering the workforce, and they've never really seen a time where there wasn't plentiful jobs. I can find a job wherever I need. You know, unemployment's low, wages are high, there's you know, the the economy right now is is suspect, but I mean it's it's a situation where it's uh it's not too bad. And this generation that's entering the workforce now has never really seen an epo economic downturn. When I entered the workforce, we were in the middle of a major economic downturn. I won't tell you what year it was, because it was a long time ago. But when you found a job, you did everything you could to hang on to that job. You didn't complain, you just kept your nose in line and you did your job. And through my career of working for 40 years now, uh, there's been ups and downs in the economy. The people who are entering the workforce now, they don't have the experience of that. Plus, as you said, they had the internet, they had a phone in their hand where they could get any question they ever wanted answered, answered. Sometimes it's not answered correctly, but I mean any answer that they want, they can get it right there, right now. And that's to me, that's a that's an uncomfortable situation for me to deal with people like that because I don't I don't understand what their motivation to go to work is. I don't understand what it is at home that that forces them to come to work. And you know, some do, some don't. But I mean, once they're in the workforce, is that what they're really truly looking for is uh recognition or is it just to be let let uh given some some authority and to do their own jobs?
SPEAKER_02I think it's both because um the they grew up with social media and instant graphication of like, give it to me now, now. But the those that I work with currently from what I understand from them is hey, I really I worked really hard to get here and I want to prove myself and show the skills I have developed. And so that's been my interaction with the people that I work with who are just entering the workforce. Um, this is maybe their second job. And so um I just think that they are just looking to grow themselves and and get that recognition of like, yes, I can do these things. Like, I know what to do and how to do it. And also comes from a different perspective, too, because they are younger, like they know things that I don't know, and they teach me. And so I'm grateful to know what they know now, too. So it's just giving them the opportunity to showcase what skills that they do have.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So one last question. The people who enter into the workforce right now seem to have a lot of uh ability to move from company to company, and it's kind of a it's almost a natural thing for them to work two or three years in a job and then move on from a different company. I read somewhere that people who have been in a job for ten years or longer in one company have a tendency to stay, and the turnover rate for people who have been in the same company for ten years is very low. But the turnover rate for people who have been in a company for less than three years is extremely high. And a lot of companies are seeing constant turnover of those first two or three years of people who come in. Is that something you've experienced in the workplace? And if so, how do we stop that?
SPEAKER_02Um it's funny, it's kind of opposite. Um it's usually what I've experienced recently in my career is people who've been there the longest are being the ones being let go due to like they're most likely at a senior level. Sometimes they're not. It's just um due to the wages that they're making. And they're bringing in a young the younger generation because they they're cheaper to bring in and to train and so not by their choice they're leaving. Yeah. Um not by choice. And so, but with the everyone who's younger, like the quick turnover from two to three years, how we stop that happening is it's a good question. I'm not sure how we stop that just because I think the you know, everyone just finishing college or being younger, they're just trying to find their footing. They're trying their best to start their career, keep something going, and just keep up that momentum. But a lot of things are just being taken away from them right now. And it's out of their control. And so I think right now they're just kind of like grasping at straws to like, I'll take anything to just to like keep a job and have income coming in. And so I I just think where the state of the world is at currently is just they're just doing their best to get by. And I I think companies are doing the same too, of just everyone is trying to be successful in everything. Um, from companies to like individuals, like they're they're just trying to keep up with the world right now.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I truly b believe that everyone who comes to work comes to work because they want to succeed. I don't think anybody takes a job that they want to get fired from.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_00I think they come to work because they want to be successful. And too often uh there are leaders who look at them as a problem. They say this young worker is the problem. That's not the case. You know, the the problem is we've got to get work done for the client. And the people who are gonna do that work are the frontline workers. And the more we can support those individuals and give them exactly what you're talking about, their voice and their let me try, you know, uh I'm guessing that you're pretty good at solving problems, right?
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. So I would say um my main like if I had a job title would be problem solver. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00So did you did you just are you just someone who just was born with that skill?
SPEAKER_02I'm just very type A. So being the industry industry that I'm in is that they come to me with an idea and they're like, hey, we want to do this. I'm like, okay, here are all the solutions we can do to make this happen. What direction do you want to go in? And they give us the direction and we put the direction together and they say, okay, love it, let's go. And so we make everything happen, and if they can change their mind in between, and we'll just pivot and just solve it. So to me, it's just a natural thing that I'm like, okay, we just gotta get it done. We just have to solve this. This is the way they want to do it, or like, hey, we have this hiccup that happened that it's not letting us do that direction. Here's plan B, plan C, plan D, of what else we can do. And so, but the thing about events is everything has to be kept behind the curtain. No one has to know, like, if something didn't work out, uh it's just a small group, and then everything else is like really well executed, everyone's happy, but like really good at keeping things that didn't work out behind the curtain.
SPEAKER_00So, Kelsey, have you made mistakes?
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And and did those mistakes help or hurt you?
SPEAKER_02Both. Um, in the moment it hurt me just because I was worried about like how it looked and what would happen since it didn't work out. Of course, we like solved it on like on site or in finding different solutions. But I learned from it. I'm like, okay, next time, don't do this, have this prepared, and then that will never happen again. And it usually doesn't. And so it's mistakes for me are a great learning opportunity because I'm like, okay, this is what I can do to improve and become better and not have happen again. And I can teach others from my mistakes of like, hey, this happened to me in this situation. Just a heads up. If you experience something like this, this is how I dealt with it. But let me know if you need any help and support, if anything does happen like that, and we can solve it together.
SPEAKER_00So that brings me to the second best advice I can give you.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Give people the opportunity to fail. Give people the opportunity to make mistakes because just as you said, yes, the mistakes hurt you right off the bat, but you learned and you grew and you got better because of those mistakes. I think too often leadership has a tendency to they're afraid of someone making a mistake and have it go negatively on them. Yet what happens is that when people make mistakes, they learn and they grow and they get better. You want your people to make mistakes. That means they're out there doing the job. That means they're out there doing the work. If your people never make mistakes, you aren't letting them try. So let them try. Yeah. Let them make mistakes and let them learn and grow from those mistakes.
SPEAKER_02Love it. Absolutely. Make mistakes, people.
SPEAKER_00There you go, make mistakes. Kelsey, it's really been a pleasure talking with you today. Is there anything else you'd like to ask before we end this episode?
SPEAKER_02With someone in, I would say, I won't even say the middle of my career. I'm still pretty like early on in my career. What advice can you give me on, you know, I have 30 more years of working. How can I keep up the motivation and momentum of growing and learning and maybe eventually becoming a people leader and leading a team? Like I know you gave advice earlier, but like what else can you give to me and like people like a millennial who still has a long time working?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So the the advice is is probably not what you're going to want to hear, but trust me, let this percolate and let this advice sit in your brain for a little while, and it will help you along the way. Always remember that work is a means to an end. It's not the end. And if we look at, I have 30 years left to go, oh my goodness, that is a long road. You know, when you look at a mountain, you want to, I mean, you mountain bike, you know, and you look at a hill, you think, I want to climb that hill. If you just sit there and look at the hill, it's it's gonna be overwhelming. But what you have to do is you have to put your feet in the pedals and just start going. And every little place along the way, you may have to stop at sometimes. You may have to stop and take in the view and understand, hey, I've made it this far, I think I can go further. But look at it one step at a time. And I would even say, start day-to-day. And when you get up in the morning, say, What do I hope to accomplish today? What are my goals? And what at the end of the day, what's going to make me feel comfortable when I put my head on the pillow and go down for the night. Always look at things one day at a time and get through today. Uh a lot of people want to look at the long term down the road. That's something you can do anytime. You can sit down and plan your future. But when it comes to the daily grind, always first thing in the morning, set a goal for the day and try your best to accomplish that goal. At the end of the day, look at how well you did towards that goal and where you where you need to improve for the next day. But take it one day at a time. Kelsey, not 30 years down the road.
SPEAKER_02No, I love that. That like puts it a great perspective for me on, you know, have a long time. So don't rush it and just do your best each day. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. It's been a pleasure uh talking with you today. I really appreciate you coming on the show and uh hope you have a great rest of your day.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. And it was thank you for all the advice and looking forward to putting it into my day to day.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. We look forward to seeing you all again on Analog Later.