Analog Leader
Helping Supervisors and Managers become true People Leaders through human-centered, Analog skills.
Analog Leader
McKenna Coyne
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In this episode of Analog Leader, we sit down with film, television, and commercial hair and makeup artist McKenna Coyne to talk about leadership, human connection, and the power of making people feel seen and heard. From theater productions to television sets, McKenna shares how listening, positivity, and genuine human connection can completely change the way teams work together. This conversation is full of insight on leadership, communication, creativity, and what it really means to bring out the best in people.
When they're done, they always go, Wow, you are so much fun to talk to. And I go, I didn't say a word for an hour, so you just like talking, and this is great. But taking those little bits and making them feel so special.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Analog Leader. Our guest today is McKenna Coyne McKenna, welcome. Hi, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for having me today.
SPEAKER_00So tell me about you.
SPEAKER_01So I've been a hair and makeup artist doing freelance for about 14 years. I also own a salon. Um I've designed shows, been on lots of different kinds of productions, and got to meet a ton of different kinds of people. And it's kind of my passion.
SPEAKER_00So you say productions. Explain that to me.
SPEAKER_01Um, so started out in theater, started out designing shows for stage, which I did theater since I was a tiny little girl, like third grade. My heart is always gonna be in it. That's gonna always be my favorite place. Um, how to start making big girl money, so moved into film instead.
SPEAKER_00So in the theater part portion of it, was this like Broadway type theater?
SPEAKER_01This was no more like local theater. So started that in college, designed shows for that, and then got into more like local theater kind of things. So it was so much fun. It's just there's not a lot of money in the arts, there's a lot of passion, but it wasn't paying the bills.
SPEAKER_00So help me understand how many when you're talking hair and makeup at a at a theater like that, you're talking about for the production, for the live performance, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How many actors, actresses, how many people would you have to work on?
SPEAKER_01So I think my biggest one I did was for Oklahoma. Um, that was actually one of my favorite ones. I love Oklahoma so much. Call me an old school. But that one had about 55 cast members in it. Um, so as a makeup designer, you designed the entire production, then you hand it over to your supervisors, and they're the ones who actually applied the makeup. Um, but working with that big of a cast is sometimes a challenge. That one was particularly challenging because I made everybody, if they were able to, all the men, grow their own facial hair. I wasn't gonna do any prosthetics. And fighting a whole bunch of people to try to get them to grow their own facial hair over Christmas when they had to go home and see their families. I got lots of backlash, but we ended up winning a lot of awards because of that. We got accredited for it and and I got particular mention, oh, the facial hair looks so real, and I was like, that's because it is. And these guys that fought me the whole time were like, fine, we love it. Anyways, so yeah, it was fun though. Working on big casts is amazing. And I think one of my favorite things that I did in theater was I have a big love for history as well. So when you work in theater, you research shows really deeply. You get into all the history of what time period and what would be real in that time. So getting to combine my love for history and art and then people, combining those together was so much fun. It was such a good, good experience, and I loved it.
SPEAKER_00So you have to match the time frame, you've got to work with all these different artists who have different times that they're on stage, on set, things like that. You've got different personalities, you've got a full crew of people who are actually going to execute the hair and makeup type situation. How how was that? Tell me how the managing people in that situation was.
SPEAKER_01So my philosophy, and I still carry this today, one of my biggest philosophies is that whoever I'm working with, that's my rock star. That's who's in front of me. Um when I'm working with someone, I'm their cheerleader. I want to lay sit in my chair, they're the most important person to me. It doesn't matter who my boss is, who's hired me, who any of that, whoever is right in front of me, that is the most important person in the world. And I want to give 100% of my attention, 100% of my focus on this person. And a big part of that is letting my ego down and not talking about me, which we all want to talk about ourselves, even if we think we're just adding to the conversation. But there'll be some times I'll get a person in my chair, and maybe I'm working a 12-hour day, tons of different people sitting in my chair, and I might say 10 words all day, just getting people little sparks to talk about themselves because it'll be surprising when someone's in your chair and they're talking to you and they're letting out all these wonderful things. When they're done, they always go, Wow, you are so much fun to talk to. And I go, I didn't say a word for an hour, so you just like talking, and this is great. But taking those little bits and making them feel so special makes it doesn't even matter how their makeup turns out. When they leave, they have this glow from the inside that comes out more than anything I can put on their face. So being that personal cheerleader for someone, letting down all yourself and not trying to get in there and up them or one up them or anything like that really makes the person shine and makes them trust you and builds that friendship so much more.
SPEAKER_00McKenna, that is such an important point for us all to remember when we're we're dealing with people in any kind of a situation, but especially in a leadership type position, most of our clients are manufacturing or retail, have have a lot a number of people that work for them, hourly associates, and the leaders sometimes they get caught up in how important their job is. And if they just took what you just said to heart and said, the people who work for me deliver every result. You know, if I go into a grocery store, my experience is created by an hourly associate. And the pride that that hourly associate puts into it, the way they feel about their job, really creates the atmosphere that I enjoy as a client. What you just said is so important because if you can put yourself aside a little bit and let them know you're the rock star, you're the person who's most important here. I I think that's just genius. That's well done. That's extremely well said.
SPEAKER_01Well, and now I don't work as much on theater. I'm on sets a lot more. Every once in a while I do get to do a live performance, or I work with a lot of different um bigger companies that when they do their conferences, the people that go on stage get to perform and talk, and I'll do their hair and makeup before they go on. And I actually just finished one for a big name company, and backstage, it's very surprising. These people that lead companies, they have these huge meetings, these big, you know, roles and titles, they'll come back and be like a scared little wet kitten, and they're like, ugh, I have to go on stage and talk. And you're like, how are you scared of this? Like, this is your fear. But it's really cool to be able to be backstage with someone who has that fear, or maybe they've never stepped on stage before, they've never stepped in front of a camera and helped build them up. And sometimes I use the analogy of I've never actually done this myself, but I've never bungee jumped. But I'd use the analogy of bungee jumping that you've decided, you've said yes, you're gonna be on camera, you're gonna do on stage, you're gonna be in front of this performance. And when it comes time, right before you get on, you get this, I don't wanna do it, I don't wanna do it, I don't wanna be here, I don't wanna be here. So getting someone right there and going, you know what, you decided ahead of time you do wanna do this. Some part of you wants to be here, and you're gonna go out there and it's gonna take two seconds. As soon as you jump off that cliff, you're down and done before you even know it. And as soon as you get back down on the ground, you're gonna say, I wanna do that again. I'm ready to go again. And getting people built up to that to going, oh, I did say yes to this, I do want to do this, and getting them out there and then seeing them like run back like they're a little kid that just did the monkey bars for the first time. I mean, these like 60-year-old CEOs come running to me, like, did I do good? And I'm like, you did amazing! And just being that cheerleader for someone. But we can do that in any part of our life. Just building people up, because not a lot of people know they have someone in their corner, or even if they do, they don't feel it. And people just want to be seen and heard. And that's basic humanity. We just want to be seen and heard.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So I I've I've been a keynote speaker before, and I've seen a lot of keynote speakers. I've never really thought about that part of it, that the person behind stage does a lot to prepare you. I have not had the pleasure of working with you in that kind of a situation. And and sometimes it is scary. You go out there, you don't know anybody, you've got to make a difference with all the people that are there. I can imagine what it would what it would be like to have someone like you in the in the corner of the room that's uh you know, gets you all ready, looking your best, and says you're gonna you're gonna knock it out of the park. We're gonna do this first step.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And there's something about that like adrenaline that bonds people instantly. You know, if you you go through a traumatic event with someone, that trauma bond, that adrenaline bond is what like bonds you instantly. And I think there's something about that doing any kind of performance of people have that heightened energy, and then you bond with them immediately. You're there for them, you see them in that moment, and whatever you make that little spark connection, you can keep that throughout your whole life. And I've built some lifelong friendships with people that I've maybe have had in my chair for um 30 minutes. That now we have this lifelong friendship because we have this little bond where we got to see and chew each other's souls, we got to encourage each other, and then put them out there and they do these great performances.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. So let's shift gears a little bit. You work on some uh you're working on some television productions and things like that as well, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So you you're working with people who know uh everyone's here to see me, and I'm on camera, and some of them probably have a pretty inflated ego to begin with. What's it like to work with those people?
SPEAKER_01So I have worked with some difficult people that have been a little bit hard and it is challenging, and I think the biggest thing for me is to not take offense because it's just like someone who has a bad day, or maybe they just don't know how to how to deal with their fame, or they don't know, and I don't ever give anyone like, oh, they were so rude to me, they were so mean, or whatever, you know. You just go, they're probably having a bad day, and maybe they got some bad news, but they still have to perform. Or they're just not feeling good that day, and they still have to get up and act. Um, so to me, I just give everybody the benefit of the doubt and give them lots of wiggle room and space and meet them where they are because maybe they just need a little more compassion, a little more kindness. And I've had some people say mean things, and I've had people yell at me, and you know, I always work at weird hours because being a hairy makeup artist, you're the first one on set, you're the last one to leave. So I'm always there super early, and I get to see people when they're maybe not their happiest before they've had their coffee, before they've had their happiness. And so definitely meeting people where they are and coming in genuine, I think, is a big thing too, because people can tell when you're genuine and when you're being fake. So yeah, meeting people and coming in with a genuine heart.
SPEAKER_00So you've talked about three really key skills that I call analog skills. Skills that require a human touch, they require that kind of presence that uh you have to build that skill up. It's not something that just happens. Uh you work on those skills, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh, absolutely. And there's things, little tricks of the trade that I think. Um I will tell, you know, because I own a salon as well, but I'll tell all my hair clients, I'll remember everything about you except for where we part your hair. Because that part isn't even like important to me. But I've done these people's hair forever, and I'm like, where do we part it again? But remembering little key things about people, not so much like where they work, all these kind of things, but there is something about human touch too that I think I do get a little advantage as a makeup artist when you're touching their face, their hair, people let down their guard and they feel a little more safe. Sure. Um, but remembering key things about them, if maybe they mention something that's hard in their life right now, or something that's going really well in their life right now, if you bring that up later or relate something back to that, they go, Oh, they did remember they were listening. And being an active listener, um, when people are talking, I repeat what they're saying in my head as they're saying it, so that it really goes in my head and I can't wander, you know, all of us are have ADD and whatever, that our brains get distracted so easy. But when I'm listening to someone, active listening and repeating back what they say, or nodding along and showing that I'm listening can make a big difference to someone so they feel like they're being heard.
SPEAKER_00I think active listening is one of the lost arts. I think that people too often, if you go back to Stephen Covey, he wrote a book called The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, he said you should always listen first to understand, seek first to understand, then to be understood. And at a young age, that that meant something to me. I think that in today's day and age, information comes out of so quickly, and you learn so much about people through Instagram or TikTok or whatever it might be that you you think you know a person already. And that active listening piece kind of gets put by the wayside because we're so quickly wanting to respond that we forget about that retention of what they said. So, what are the tricks that you use? What are the the key skills that you use in order to be an active listener?
SPEAKER_01I think one is not assuming, and that is something that comes with being a hair and makeup artist as well. There's something, there's a part that we do called a consultation, right? Someone sits down in my chair and I do an entire consultation. I want to know exactly what your look is gonna be. And to me, that part is really important because that's a part where I'm going to see what you don't like, what you do like, what direction we're moving. And to me, I want to get every single little detail. I don't assume anything. So for a little while, I'm not doing it as much anymore, but I taught special effects makeup at um Aveda and a couple different other schools. Um, but the biggest part that I taught them, and we had a whole lesson around it, was consultations and how detail-oriented we need to be in those, and how we don't need to assume. So I have them do this activity where they get a character they're gonna make up, say it's like a post-apocalyptic mermaid, whatever it is, something way out there.
SPEAKER_00That's way out there, that's way out there.
SPEAKER_01They get a form that is just like a head, it's a picture of a face. They have to write down on the side every detail about the makeup. Write down every detail. They can't draw it yet, they just have to write down every detail. So they're gonna write down everything they say. Then I have them take that paper and switch it with someone else. This is the part that always gets them because they don't know what's coming. They switch papers and from the details that they get, they have to draw and put that makeup on that face based off the details. They cannot add anything that's not there. If they didn't say eyebrows, that person doesn't get eyebrows. If they don't say whatever, they don't get to put it on. The point of this makeup is, or the point of this lesson is to teach them that we assume a lot of things, that we fill in the blanks and we put in what we want over what someone else wants, which never ends up well. So I think in listening, it's the same thing. You know, someone might tell me, like, oh, I work construction, oh, I do this, and then I start, you know, as normally we put a can a character in our head. We start putting in, oh, they work construction, they must do this, they must do that, they must do that, they must not be interested in whatever. But listening to someone is actually them telling you who they are instead of you filling in. So coming in with a completely blank slate and letting the person tell me who they are instead of me assuming who they are, I think is a big way to build trust. Because we're not putting these assumptions on people. You know, the construction guy might love DD and also be a ballroom dancer. I don't know. He might be multifaceted. People are people have a lot of different sides to them, and we don't know that. So being a listener and let them tell you who you are instead of you telling them.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. I I think that that's one of the traps that we all walk into. Someone tells us a little bit about themselves, and we build a full character from that little bit of information. I love that you say don't assume, get all of the information so that you truly understand where that what they're going through. So on set, I'm guessing that there's times, I mean you you kind of mentioned it, there's some prickly people, you know, that they're going through some stuff, or maybe they're not really happy about having to film today. And this this is a situation where you've got to put them at ease, get them ready to go. What's what what are some of the uncomfortable situations that you've been put in, and how do you rectify those?
SPEAKER_01People want to be on a team. They want to be not alone and not alone in misery either. So if someone comes in and they're like, it's too early, it's too that, the last thing they want to see is someone coming in, like, no, it's not, you're great, we're fine. And they're like, oh great, sunshine's here. Like, so you go, yeah, it is hard. And and matching them there and going, yeah, it is difficult. I'm sorry you got a flat tire this morning. That's gotta be difficult. How does that feel? What can we do to make it better? And asking people, what makes you feel better? Because sometimes people just like, well, I like listening to this music. Okay, let's listen to that music while we're going there. Listening and asking them, what's gonna make this better for you? Because it's the same thing with assuming. What makes me happy listening to musicals and having a yummy treat is not gonna make everybody happy, right? That's not that's my pep up in excitement. But talking to the person who's in front of me, what can I do to make it better? What can we do? What can we do to make it better? What can we do to make the situation happy? And that gets them thinking of like, oh, maybe I am just having a bad attitude. Or maybe I didn't drink enough water today, or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_01But making it our problem instead of, oh, you're my problem, makes a big difference. Of we can face that chart like challenge together instead.
SPEAKER_00I can imagine if you just felt their pain and thought, uh, I have to work on this person, and you closed up too, it would it would not get better, would it? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Getting to be on the same level with someone just makes them feel seen and heard and makes them go, okay. And it also builds that instant trust because there's something very vulnerable about letting someone do your makeup. And especially women who have done their same routine for 40 years that want it exactly, it might be hard to challenge them to either if we have to do something a little different because it's gonna be on camera and maybe we need a little more or stage and we need a lot more out of them, they might feel uncomfortable and it might not be comfortable on their face, but we need to do it for the situation. So building that trust and letting them, letting me do that to them gives them a lot of it's very vulnerable for them and it can be challenging. So building that trust instantly of like, hey, I'm on your side. I'm not here to do this to you, I'm here to do this with you. We're doing the same side.
SPEAKER_00You know, one of the things I tell every young leader I get the opportunity to talk to is that it when you peep make people feel like they are listened to, they're cared for, and they belong, they're a part of something, as you said, they're part of the team, they want to be part of something. When those three gaps are filled with good listening skills, with true care and concern and compassion, and with making them understand that they are important to the team and what they do is is a contri uh a contribution to everything that we're going to accomplish together as a team. I think those are important.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. Well, and we are tribe people. I mean, look at little kids. As soon as you start making something, what do they do? They come over, can I help? Can I help? We want to help. We are community people. We want to do this together. We're not supposed to be alone. And especially in the workplace, when we're trying to work together, that community and that togetherness is what makes things go.
SPEAKER_00Community is an important word. I I want you to expand on that. Sure. You know, people talk about culture, workplace culture, and I'm sure that on the sets that you work on, people talk about culture, and culture is important, but culture changes with the different players that are in it. Community is something that we can really build. That's something that we can set forth by the way that we influence the culture of the people. How do you go about making sure that you're a part of that community, but also one of the advocates or or servants to the community?
SPEAKER_01So I think starting in theater and ending up in film is very unique. And any musical theater kid will tell you this. Um when you become a cast, when you become a whole show together, that is the most unique, quick culture, quickest community ever. You bond together so fast. And there's some that work better together and some that don't work as well, but you all end up coming together to make this beautiful production. And that's something that I think drew me to the entertainment business. Um, especially, you know, I was in third grade when I did my first show. I was tiny, tiny. Third grade. Third grade. And I loved it as acting, not hair and makeup artists, as acting, but I absolutely loved it. And what I loved the most was all these strangers, kids I'd never met, parents I'd never met, adults I'd never met, came together, and our goal was to make this piece of art together. We were all gonna, it was for Christmas Carol. So we were all gonna make Christmas Carol together. And the most amazing thing to me was a little kid jumping into this show and seeing all these people who have never worked together get together and make this beautiful piece of art. And as I've grown up, that is more astonishing to me than ever because all these adults just come together, we have one goal, and they work together seamlessly. And I think the the best part of theater is that everyone knows their job and everyone stays within a lane and everyone communicates so well. You know, when you're working on a show together, the heads of every department meet constantly, and we're constantly throwing ideas out, seeing if what we're doing meshes with everybody else's. That communication and that level is unique, I think, to theater and big productions because I don't see that in other realms, you know, and maybe you've seen the meme that's been going around that was like if you need something done right, get a theater kid to be on your team. And that's absolutely true. Because one, they will fake it till they make it. They're gonna pretend like they know how to do the job until they get the job done, and they want to work with the team. They want to work with people.
SPEAKER_00That's so awesome. So you are unique in the fact that if is it a true statement to say that you're actually doing what you want to do?
SPEAKER_01I I am so lucky. Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional. Um, I am so lucky to get to do what I want to do because I don't feel like I work. Anytime I go on set, I just go, people are paying me. Like I leave and go, like, what? Because I just love it. I love talking to people. I love creating art. I love making people feel beautiful. And it's astonishing that like an idea I had when I was a little kid, I gotta do as a big grown-up kid. So I feel very fortunate. I've been very lucky, been so blessed, and I've been given a lot of opportunities that I'm very, very grateful for.
SPEAKER_00That's so awesome because I mean the majority of people are not doing, they're not living their dreams, they're not doing what they want to do. And when you relate that to people, say in a manufacturing facility, I I ran a manufacturing line where we made lasagna, and there were there were people on the line that their whole job was to take wet noodles out of a pan and put them in the lasagna. And all day long they'd grab a wet noodle and they'd lay it in a pan. The pans were going past past them 60 pans a second or a minute. So every every second they'd have to put a new noodle in a pan, every second. And they did that for eight hours.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00Not even close to living their dreams, right?
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00So now knowing what you know about how to build relationships in that, what kind of advice would you give to the person who's going to supervise that person who's putting the noodle in the pan? What kind of advice would you give them to prove to that person that they are those three things? They're listened to, they're cared for, and they're a part of a team.
SPEAKER_01I think everyone wants to know what they're doing is important. That if they're not there, this doesn't work. Because we've obviously heard there's no small parts, there's just small actors. And that's exactly how that applies to that. Every single job, especially in a manufacturing, in a big company, it all comes we all need to be there and we all need to participate. And in any capacity or at every level, every part needs to be important, and everyone needs to know what they are doing is important. You know, a family might be relying on that dinner to feed their family, and if that noodle wasn't in there, that's not making it to them. You know, they're paying their hard-earned money to get this. Everyone needs to know what they're doing is not busy work. It's not frivolous, it's not not important, that everything that they're doing is important. Um, and sometimes just making a game out of it can make it fun too. We have to trick our brains into doing menial tasks that maybe feel like they're not that important, but doing it so that we feel like, okay, this is fun, making a game out of it, making it feel like this is important, this is life or death to someone, and what I'm doing is important. Because there's times I do stuff on set too that is feels really ridiculous. You know, I'll be in theater, it's go, go, go, go, 100 miles an hour, and then you rest. In film, it's hurry up and wait. You go, go, go for 20 seconds and then you sit. And in those down times, I go, really, what am I doing? This is just I've been sitting on set for two hours. This is kind of a waste. But if I wasn't sitting there for those two hours, the time I was there wouldn't matter. So everything we do is important.
SPEAKER_00That's a key point. You know, it's when people have a job in manufacturing or wherever it might be, if they're a dishwasher in a restaurant, they're a piece of the of the process. And that process is ultimately going to go to a client or a customer or consumer in that case. And what they do not only nourishes that customer, but also what they do provides uh resale value of the product that is sold by that company and therefore makes the company financially successful. And that financially successful, uh financially successful company, it employs all of the people, including the person who's laying the noodles in there. If they do their job correctly, then everyone benefits.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And if those people up above let the people that are down below putting the noodles in, know I'm so grateful for what you're doing. I'm so thankful that you're here. Thank you for being here. Thank you for doing this today. Feeling that gratitude of like, oh, they did see me, they did hear me. They are grateful for what I'm doing because I think positive always outweighs negative. You know, like a dog that's given a treat is always gonna respond better than a dog who gets beaten to death, you know. There's a big thing that people are the same. They respond to positivity, and and we like to hear that we're doing a good job. So even if it is kind of assumed of like, oh, they've put 500 noodles in today, why do they need to know they're doing a good job? They'll just keep doing it. Making those little comments do make a big difference.
SPEAKER_00You you have such great insight. I really appreciate the things that you've talked about. If we could shift gears just a little bit. Of course. Who has inspired you in the past? Who are some of the people that have helped you to learn these critical skills that you're talking about? Where did this come from? How did you learn these things?
SPEAKER_01Um, my biggest oh, you're gonna make me emotional again. I'm not a crier, I promise. You're just bringing up the right things. Um, my biggest one is my grandma, my mom's mom. Um, I actually grew up in a home with her, and she is my biggest inspiration. Um, her and her mom, my great grandma, are just salt of the earth women. They are so strong. And my grandma's in her 80s, and you would think she's in her 20s. She is the strongest hardworking lady you've ever met, and the most positive, and the most, we can get this done. And every time anyone sees her, they feel like the most special person in the room. They just light up because she just makes you feel like you're the only one that matters. When you're talking with her, you feel like a million dollars. All her attention is completely on you. She wants to know every detail about your life, she wants to make you sure you're taken care of. If you say, like, oh, if my dish rags are kind of getting old, well, you better bet the next day she is there with brand new dish towels that match your kitchen, that are the cutest things ever. She is that woman. And I want to be that woman. I'm trying to be the girl that she would be proud of. Um, so definitely 100% her.
SPEAKER_00Well, I can guarantee you she's very proud of you. The person that I'm sitting with is someone that uh many people I'm sure are very proud to know. So you're inspired by by people who are close to you that way. In a work setting, who's who's inspired you and how in a work setting?
SPEAKER_01Ooh. I'm gonna say, okay, I'm gonna go celebrity on this one. Okay. Kind of a bigger one. But Dolly Parton, I love her work ethic, and I love that she brings everything back around to a positive thing, that she does make people feel seen and heard. That she's always been someone who gives, and it's an external thing, and it's not, oh, the fame's for me. You know, she started reading clubs, she started books clubs, she's has so many different charities. So I like her work ethic in that she always gives back, and that she's always looking for a way to serve those who have served and got her to where she is.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So uh on the opposite side, yeah. Have you ever been in a situation where you had you maybe you needed some help and and you needed some guidance and some leadership and you got bad lead leadership or bad guidance?
SPEAKER_01Yes, definitely. I've worked with some producers and some other higher up people that have given me some bad advice or have been discouraging or didn't really give me the time of day, and it's made me feel awful. I mean, I've spent times after a shoot that I get in my car and just go, should I be doing this anymore? Am I worth this anymore? Should I be charging this? Should I should I keep going? Like, this is hard. This wasn't easy to build. And there has been some times that I've worked with people that I went, oh, well, I don't know if I believe in myself or I don't know if this is worth it anymore. But I think the difference is, yeah, the ones that take it for themselves or don't build up their team. That is like, hurry up and send all your praise up to me. That makes it feel like, oh, this is a drag, or it makes the hours feel like they're so long, or like I don't feel passion for the project. Um yeah, I hope that kind of answers.
SPEAKER_00Sure. No, that that does answer it. And I think that that's one of the things that we all run into is people who suck the information out of us and the it along with that, they take our energy and everything else. I think too often sometimes leaders believe that their job is important and that the people who they lead are a tool to get to get work done. So they're they treat them like information brokers. Give me the information that I need and let me take it to the people who are even more important than me. And I know every time I've dealt with someone who was an information broker, uh, that all they wanted was to know what was going on, and and I was just a a tool, a cog in the wheel, that I always felt like, like you said, should I be doing this? Am I in the right place? I didn't feel like I belonged. I didn't feel like I was being listened to, and I certainly didn't feel like that person cared about me.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I think that that's one of the things that's really important for us to not fall into that trap because it's pretty easy. I would I would imagine from your perspective, some of the people you've worked with have some big short-term commitments, a lot of money onsets. There's some pressure on people, isn't there?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And there's been some that I work with where I get treated like I'm invisible. And that's fine. I mean, people are busy, they're focused on what they're doing. Um but one particular one, and he's a very head up on a very big company, that said some very mean slash inappropriate things to me that I felt, wow, I am not part of this team anymore. And I immediately checked out. My brain disconnected from the project, and I thought, I don't want to do my best. I don't want to get out my my big guns, you know. I don't want to break out all the extra special things because I do a lot on set that adds a little bit extra. And I immediately was like, shut down. I'm just gonna do the bare minimum to get this done, get out as quick as I can. I don't want to network, I don't want to talk to anybody on set, and it made me feel really small. It was just comments, it was just words. I still had to do the same job, the project still had to get done, but not feeling like I was part of the team immediately ostracized me, and I went, okay, I'm not a part of this anymore. And I started feeling small, and that negative talk spirals down, and then it does get into your work, and you immediately go, like, eh, I don't really care how this looks anymore. So when you are a leader looking down, even your tiny little small comment, sometimes people hang on to words for a really long time. And those words play over and over and over. And even if it was a little slide comment on the side, people remember them. And especially when they look up to you as a leader. If you look up to your leader and think, oh, I love what they're doing, I admire it, I want to be a CEO one day, and they say that one little comment, they're checked out. Maybe their entire career path has changed because that one little thing you said.
SPEAKER_00I can remember almost every negative word that people above me said. I can remember almost every single one of them. I think that people have a hard time remembering the positive things.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Because you have to say 10 or 15 positive things to someone before you say one negative thing. It's like a bank account, you know. I think that that analogy has been used before. You make deposits with positive energy and you make withdrawals with negative energy. People remember the negative energy, they don't remember all those withdrawal all those uh deposits of the positive energy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. And when are we more inclined to write a review? If you go to a restaurant and have the best meal, you're like, oh yes, I love it. If there's a hair in your meal, you're gonna jump on your phone and write a review. We are so quick to remember the negative. We're so quick to write it down, say it out there, spread it around. But if we can change that and say, Oh, I had the best experience, put that out there instead. Or just acknowledging the tiny little things. The person who put the noodles in, thanking them for that. That does make a big difference.
SPEAKER_00I think that's kind of a component of our society right now. Uh you brought up restaurant reviews. You can pull up any restaurant and you can find negative reviews over, you know, some really good restaurants, some places I've been to and had a wonderful experience, and I'll find it reviews, and I can't figure out why the reviews are negative. You know, when I was young, my dad always told me, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say nothing at all.
SPEAKER_01I love that.
SPEAKER_00And he said, Praise in public, uh, punish in private. And I think that that's the way it used to be. But nowadays it's almost kind of like flipped a hundred percent, where the negative things are the first things that we say, and the positive things get they get tabled.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I completely agree.
SPEAKER_00Does that happen on set with you?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, that has definitely happened. And that's something that so where I start with an actor is the very first experience they have on set, right? I'm the first person they're gonna see, I'm the first person that they're gonna get introduced to and actually spend some time before they go to on set. So my goal when they get there is to build out the positive. I'm gonna set the tone and I'm gonna set the mood for the rest of the day. I'm bringing in that happy, I'm bringing in that positive energy. We're not gonna say the drive was long, we're not gonna say traffic was bad. I'm just gonna start building up our happiness and our positivity because that is so contagious. And if we start bringing in that positive, suddenly that's gonna just spread. And everyone's gonna start feeling this like, well, I don't know, I had a great time doing my makeup this morning. So of course I'll go talk to my co-actor and be like, oh, I'm so happy, you know? So I think my goal on set every time I'm there is like, let's bring the positive, let's bring, let's all heighten this up together. Because if you start it, someone else is gonna take it, someone else is gonna take it, and soon those little negative comments that come up, they start feeling silly for saying it. If everyone else is being around it and you're like, mm, I'm having a bad attitude, then you start looking around, you're like, okay, well, I should change because everyone else is positive. Now I'm being silly. So I think it can be contagious, and we just have to make the choice because happiness is a choice. It's not something that comes naturally, and it definitely doesn't come naturally to me, even though I feel like I'm a very positive, optimistic kind of person, but it's something that I choose. And it has been mentioned to me many times. Oh, how are you so happy? How are you so positive? How are you have such a great lookout? And it's because every morning I wake up and say, one, I'm so grateful to be here. And two, I'm gonna have a positive day today. I'm gonna look for the positive.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. I think that's a great outlook on life is to always look for what are the positive things that happen because negative things are around us all the time. You can turn on your television, you can get in a bad mood in a hurry, you know. So there's a there's a lot of reasons that we can find to be negative. There's also a lot of reasons we find to be positive. We've got to search those out. Absolutely. So let's go back to something you said at the very first of the conversation. You make people feel like they are the most important person in the room. I I just keep going back to that in my mind about how that is such an amazing gift that you have, that you give to people, that you make them feel like that it's all about them and that they are truly the ones that you are there to serve in that capacity of being a servant and you know, doing makeup and also and you know getting them ready to go, ready, ready to look their best so that they can go out and perform. What are the key factors that you use to make them feel that love, compassion, and and concern that you make them feel like?
SPEAKER_01Sure. So one is forgetting myself. And like you said, being a servant to them. And I think that might come down to someone thinking, like, oh, I have to like not talk about myself or not think about myself, but it's not in that capacity. In that way, I'm saying you're putting yourself on pause, and in this moment, you're like a microphone for them. Everything they're saying is just gonna get amplified. You were there to let them shine bigger. You're a bounce light, you're a microphone, whatever is gonna make them feel more like themselves. And in that way, if I'm talking to a leader or someone to, you know, explain how to do this, it's not you are putting yourself down to make this person bigger. It's you're standing here, being an equal with them, but you're giving them the light. You're being that bounce so they can shine even brighter. And some of that is letting our ego down. Some of that is just going, it's not about me right now. It's about the person that I'm talking to. It's about the person that I'm gonna make them feel like it's their birthday. Even if it's not their birthday. You know, how do you treat someone on their birthday? You might hate them, but if someone comes in and says it's their birthday, you're like, happy birthday, all right, it's your day. We're gonna just give it to them. But some of that is just letting them take center stage for a while. And even if they don't want to be the center of attention, there's something in there that they want to talk about. They want to hear, they want to express. So being a good listener, absolutely, let them talk, let them say all their things, making eye contact, not doing the distance off or checking our phones, our phones are good distractions, and I know a lot of times we like to hide behind them or have it as a safety blanket, but having no distractions around and facing your body towards the person you're talking to and letting them know that they are heard.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful, wonderful pointers. That that's I talk about that all the time about how people have to put their phones down. In fact, I encourage people if you want to take notes, take them on paper because it means something. When you pull out a pen and paper, it means something to somebody. You're taking notes on a phone, people aren't sure if you're really taking notes or if you're checking Instagram, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. And there's things too that, you know, when I'm doing someone's hair and makeup, they might be have to be on a business meeting or they might have to be in a call. And it's funny that at the beginning, they'll get on and do what they need to do, and as the appointment will go on, they start going, oh, sorry. Okay, oh sorry. And they realize, oh, maybe this interaction is actually more important than what I'm doing right now. Or I was scrolling Instagram just to entertain myself, and they start realizing, oh, actually maybe I should be present. Be right here. And I do say that a lot too. Be where your feet are. If I'm right here and my feet are right here, then I want to be in this moment.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I love that. Be where your feet are.
SPEAKER_01Well, and here's the weird part I have about myself is that I have never worked a nine to five. I've never worked in corporate anything. I've always been in theater. So when I my first time going into like a corporate office, I was like, it was like walking into a zoo. I was like, what's going on in here? I was like, I don't know what any of this. I didn't know what a CEO was. Well, I didn't know what a CEO was, but like all the other high-ranking titles, I'm like, when people would would come and say, like, oh, I'm this, I'm like, what the heck is that? I'm like, okay, you have a big job. Okay. And then some would say, I'm like, oh, okay, you work with numbers. Okay, great. Like, I just literally have never been a part of this at all. So it was really fascinating getting in and realizing there's so many problems that I'm like, we fixed that in theater years ago. We've been doing that right for the longest time. You guys are just talking about this? We've been doing that since the Greeks. We figured that out like a long time ago. So, anyways, just interesting.
SPEAKER_00So, I built my career on supervising people and then running factories and now running a company. And I make a fair amount of money and support the team that I've got in going out to businesses and tell them what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong. And you said it in ways that I'm going it's going to change the way that I talk about things. Oh. Thank you. And you have you have a very, very unique and awesome perspective on dealing with people. And I I may I can't thank you enough for being on the show.
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, I appreciate it. Thank you for allowing me to do this. This is just fun new adventure.
SPEAKER_00So I was at a pet food company in Davenport, Iowa, middle of middle of nowhere in the country, you know, and it's just uh salt of the earth people like you're talking about your grandmother. And uh they just they make dog food. That's what they do for a living. Yeah. And I go in there and I try to convince them to make their people their most priority. You know, they they talk about profitability is number one. If you're not profitable, that's you know. But they say, and and they'll say safety's important. Well, I tell them to quit talking about safety being important and start doing it, you know. Start listening to people, caring about people, and making them part of the team, and quit talking about safety. They'll be safe if they believe that it's it's important for them to be safe. So, McKinney, you've been you've been fantastic. I really appreciate your time on this show, but I'd like you to leave us with one thing. Sure. If you could give a new supervisor uh who's going to be maybe it's a grocery store, maybe it's a manufacturing facility, I don't know. Somebody who's going to lead a team of 12 hourly associates, and they've been promoted to a job of a manager or supervisor over those twent 12 hourly associates, they're going to have a lot of pressure from the people above them to perform and to make sure that the job gets done. And they're going to deal with the messy lives of those 12 people that they that they supervise, that they are now responsible for. What advice would you give to that person on their first day of being a supervisor over a new team?
SPEAKER_01Be the leader you want. If you want people to act a certain way, you act that certain way. If you want them to be good listeners, you be a good listener. If you want them to communicate well, you communicate well. Lead by example because people will do what you do, not what you say.
SPEAKER_00That's fantastic advice. Thank you so much for your time, McKenna. It's a it's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate you. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for tuning in to Analog Leader. Our guest has been McKenna Coyne. We'll see you next time.