Episode 11: The Game Inside the Game

In this episode of The Locker Room, we talk about the recruiting process and whether getting recruited is really just about talent. This conversation explores how exposure, eligibility, relationships, advocacy, timing, coachability, and fit can all impact the opportunities athletes receive, especially for players who are overlooked or trying to figure the process out without many resources.

We also get into the realities of high school recruiting, the role coaches and families play, the difference between being a high-profile recruit and getting it out of the mud, and what athletes should ask college coaches to understand better where they stand.

The Locker Room is a podcast for former athletes navigating the confusing and often painful transition from a life centered around sports to a life outside of the game. For many athletes, walking away from sports is more than the end of a season. It can feel like losing purpose, community, and even a piece of who you are. One day, your life is built around competition and performance. Then suddenly, it's not. No schedule. No team. No clear version of who you are supposed to become next. This podcast explores the emotional weight of that transition: the identity crisis, the anxiety, the depression, the feeling of being lost, and the pressure to “move on” before you have fully processed what you left behind. Through honest conversations, personal reflection, and relatable stories, The Locker Room creates space for former athletes to feel seen, understood, and reminded that they are not alone. Life after sports is not just about finding a new career or routine. It is about rediscovering purpose, rebuilding identity, and learning that who you are has always been bigger than what you did.

Transcript

— Trent’s Football Background

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What is up everybody? It's your boy Jalen, and welcome or welcome back to the Locker Room Podcast, the number one podcast in the world for former athletes to engage in conversations about the difficulty of transitioning out of a highly committed sports lifestyle and into normal life. The first part of today's conversation is centered around one big question. How much of recruiting is really about talent, and how much of it depends on exposure, eligibility, and relationships? Because when you really think about recruiting, it's not just about filling a roster spot with the best player. It's also about making sure that the player is a good fit for the team, is culture, able to be developed, has a capacity for learning, and among other things, brings value to the team. So today we're going to talk about how talent is only a part of the equation in recruiting, what things impact a player's recruitability, and why relationships, advocacy, exposure, and timing also play a role in which doors open or close. And of course, I'm not having this conversation alone. I'm joined by Trent Carrington, who is both an old friend and a former teammate of mine. He brings a very unique perspective to the topic of recruiting, how it really works, and how current athletes can increase their recruitability for better and more consistent results. So whether you're a former athlete, a current athlete, a parent, a coach, or just somebody who loves the game, this conversation is guaranteed to give you something to think about. But before we get into it, make sure you subscribe to follow the show, leave a five-star review, like, comment, and share this episode with another athlete or sports fan who needs to hear this conversation. Now,

— Navigating High School Recruiting

SPEAKER_01 1:35

let's bring it back to the locker room. Alright, so Trent, thank you for joining us today. Can you go ahead and introduce yourself, please?

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yes, sir. So I'm Trent Harrington. I grew up in Fayetteville, Georgia, playing sports my whole life. Tried out baseball, basketball, football, wrestling, soccer, pretty much anything that was available around. I gave it a try. The sport that I stuck to and that I felt I was best at was football. And I've been playing that since I was about six years old. Went up through the Fayetteville system, playing at the rec parks around, doing whatever roles you need to for the team. But I really started finding my niche on kind of what I felt like my career was going to be out of, was playing defensive back. Eventually went to Fayette County High School. And so around sophomore years when I started playing DB and I got to start. Played that position the rest of my high school and college career. But after my high school career at Fayette County, I ended up playing college football at Presbyterian College, which is a little D1AA that's in South Carolina. I played four years at Presbyterian College, and then I got to move on to my grad school where I went to Northwestern University. And following my two seasons at Northwestern, that was the kind of end of my athletic career. But that's like out of scope of kind of where my journey went. So starting off playing high school football in Georgia, then I went and played college football at South Carolina for four years, and then I finished my last two years at Northwestern, which is just outside of Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Okay, that's perfect. So I want to take it back to uh high school because what the point of this conversation is centered around kind of recruiting and how that whole process works. So take us back to what the recruiting process was coming out of high school. Were you aware of kind of how the process worked? Like what what were just kind of your your impressions and thoughts? And then how did that end up turning out to where you went to Presbyterian?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Right. So I knew nothing about kind of what it was. All you know about is the dream when you're growing up. My dream was always to play at well, it started off with Georgia Tech, surprisingly, but it eventually moved on to my favorite school, which was Georgia. And you just always envision yourself playing at your favorite school, and then you're gonna go on and you're gonna get drafted, you're gonna be the first draft pick in the in the draft, um, and have your stellar career. But no, I didn't know anything really about what the recruiting process was gonna look like, and um, it's kind of eye-opening. I mean, you never really know until you get into it. And to set a little bit of the background, it's not like I had any previous close family members that had been through the process or anything. And the there also was a really lack of like resources that were available to us at our school, and that just comes to like the funding for the program, the traditions of the program, what kind of support there is for it. But I didn't have anybody to go to about like recruiting questions, like things that I needed to know, or any other support that we needed along with that. They they were starting out by the time we got to senior year. We got some new coaches that came in that had been starting to build towards stuff and we're trying to set stuff up like that. But um, I mean, even those guys were just kind of figuring out what that process looked like, and they were really just trying to do whatever they could to help us get where we needed to go, but there was nothing that was already foundationally set in there um for us to have that kind of support that we needed. So no foundation for the program that we were in, for the coaches, for the players. So it was really tough. It was kind of like um you would get still some interest and some talks with some coaches, but it wasn't like we just had um this hey, Trent, you can go to this person and you can talk to them about where you're at in your recruiting process, what schools are interested you at the time, kind of what they needed, what they're looking for, what you might need to look for, um, or just any other general support that you might need as far as that goes. Um, some of the other things, like I had no understanding of how the politics work when it comes to recruiting. Like, you gotta understand as a recruit when you're coming out the politics I'm referring to, and in sense of the recruitment, is like what your status is as a recruit. So if you are a high profile recruit that's got all the stars, has all the exposure, all the different things, that's gonna your recruitment's gonna look a lot different versus somebody that isn't quite as discovered, that doesn't have those um, that doesn't have that, what's the right word?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Maybe like exposure.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, that that hasn't already had that kind of exposure. You're still kind of getting it out the mud. Um your recruitment and the way you should go about that process is entirely different. And so you don't really kind of have a full grasp of that, especially when you're when you're the young athlete

— How High School Coaches Shape Recruitment

SPEAKER_02 6:49

to go in in that, because in your mind, you're just thinking, hey, you know, I'm I know I can make it, I know I'm great, I know I can play at wherever I wanted to play at. And you and it's good and you should have that mindset, but you that doesn't mean you should move like you like you had that mindset, especially if you're really trying to find a home, find a place, and what that's gonna work best for you. Um some of the other things is like what camps that I needed to go to. I had no idea about what kind of camps you need to prioritize and what the ultimate goal of going to those camps were. Like knowing the difference between, all right, this little camp is just a money-making camp for this kind of program. Sure, if you want to have a good little day in the summer, then you can go there and enjoy it, and you'll have a good time with your friends or the people that are there, and um and it'll be it'll just be a good time while you're there, but it's not really helping out your recruiting, getting you that exposure versus a camp that you do go to that there are multiple schools that are going to it, that it is structured in a way that's not like um just a little summer camp thing. It's like, hey, we're trying to really compete, really showcase what skills that you have, your understanding of football from a mindset where you're at athletically, um, and being able to build from that.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

That's that's excellent. So I want to go back and touch on the the coaching aspect because that was something that stuck out to me looking back. Um, because I noticed, like you said, our school did not have a lot of resources available to us until we were pretty much heading out the door. And even then, it still wasn't kind of up to par with what you would expect out of. And our program was not high level to say the least, you know, we made best with what we had. Um but you know, I know that the relationships with uh they the head coach and the other coaches on the staff, their relationships with college coaches have a lot to do with um how players are getting recruited, especially like with character witnesses and things like that. So how did you even though we didn't have everything set in place, how did you think uh your relationship with our coach, Coach Davis, and the rest of the coaching staff, did you do you think that had any effect on how things played out, or what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah, yeah, I think I absolutely did. Um and especially with our school, our our coach was he was kind of like that buffer. He would be the first guy that if it if a coach was coming through the high school, he was going to talk to the head coach, obviously, and then it'd be up to him to kind of put in put in front of those recruiters who he felt might be a good fit, what what they were looking for, and kind of going that way. Me and Coach Davis, Coach Mike Davis, who was our head coach at the time, we did have a great relationship, and um he obviously did have my back and he did give me a lot of exposure as far as the schools that were coming through there, especially compared to maybe some of the some of my other teammates and stuff that we had around, some of our other teammates. Um But the relationship I had with Coach Davis certainly did help. I don't know how he went about the recruiting process and how he was necessarily going about um putting those players in front of them. Um, but I can't say that my relationship with him did help because he obviously did open up some doors and some conversations that I had with some coaches and help uh foster some of that recruitment that I was getting for sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Okay, so now did that did that relationship kind of affect your confidence? Like, did that help you to be more confident going in, especially as a uh a junior uh a little bit, but especially as a senior, like you know, you're the door is right there, you're getting ready to leave. Did that kind of boost your confidence a little bit going into that those final games? Um and especially going into the spring when with signing day and everything coming up, did that kind of help you be more uh be more confident, but also be more, I guess, not not so worrisome about what the future may hold. Like, did that did that have any effect on that?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Oh, I kind of kind of agree. Um I wouldn't say that. I didn't feel like, hey, just my relationship with Coach Davis made me feel confident that I was gonna get where I needed to go. Uh that just really relied on more so, and this is my thinking at the time, not necessarily like how I would think about it now. But going back to then, I just felt like, you know, the performances that I was doing, what I could do on the field, my film, kind of the season that I was having, I felt like I was gonna get where I needed to go. And I was already getting some interest from some of the schools that I that I did want to go to. But um, my relationship with Coach Davis, it certainly was strong, and I didn't have any question, and it did help me out, but it isn't something that I felt like because me and Coach Davis had a good relationship, that I knew that he was gonna help me get to the school that I needed to go to. The recruitment process in that, it did feel a little bit kind of like we were on our own in some sense. And I don't mean to say that to completely dispatch the efforts that that our coaches did put in, because they certainly did, especially some of the things we'll probably never know about behind the scenes. But there are certainly were some things that were missing. And once again, it comes down to the resources and the structure of the program that they have available to them too, because if they're having to do all these things alone and they don't have anyone to turn to to help them out with some of these things, then it just makes that makes it a lot tougher. And that's that's one of the challenges of going to one of the smaller program schools where the coaches are going to be more responsible and have less resources available to them with some of those things. Um so yeah, and kind of to touch a little bit more on about it, like it's not like we would have regular meetings with our coach or anyone else that's on the coaching staff on like, hey, this is where you're at with your recruitment right now, these are the schools that are interested in you. Um what are you what schools are you interested in? What are you looking for, uh, Trent? What are you looking for, Jalen? Um right now, and just we didn't have anybody to go to necessarily for that, or at least I didn't, I know, from my perspective. I mean, I have my dad, and I know we had Coach Booker and them that were just starting out and really trying to help out with some of that stuff, but they were just figuring that stuff out on themselves too, and they did help us get some interest in some of those schools, but I felt like some of that process uh maybe at different schools where there's a little bit more support, where there's a little bit more foundation for those things, that process would have probably looked a lot a lot easier, a lot better for us in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Right, okay, got you. I would say my experience was definitely a little bit different, just because you know, and and you know, my relationship with when our head coach was was not great at all. And right, right. Um and I would say my journey was a little bit different because um I don't know, I can't even remember how that the whole process started, but I remember my dad getting connected with some of these coaches in Atlanta, with I Dare You, and they're still out doing great things with these high school football athletes. Um, but going working out with them, that helped me with uh the part you were talking about with the camps and and doing certain things. Now, I wasn't like the most I wasn't like a standout athlete, right? Like I was just kind of just looking back now, I was, you know, your average player, like I was pretty good, did some things well, did some things not so well. So it wasn't like I was just jumping off the board to anybody or on anybody's recruiting board, in my opinion. Right, right. And so from that perspective, it was a little bit different because I do remember specifically, at least, you know, I can count probably on one hand schools that were genuinely interested, and you know, they would tell me, tell my dad, hey, you know, we, you know, da-da-da-da-da, but we need to talk to your head coach. And, you know, I don't know what happened, and I'm not gonna say coach Davis didn't talk to him, but I just know those coaches, like we stopped talking, you know, well not really stopped talking, but they just never they said they never really heard back. And you know, they could have been they could have been capping and Coach Davis maybe could have said, you know what, Jalen, he's not really that great of a you know, uh player, he's not really his character or whatever. I don't know. And I'm not gonna sit here and speculate on anybody's behalf. But what I was gonna say with that is just I think from the player's perspective, like you have to understand, like you said, there they are there weren't resources available to us at the time to know what kind of things we should be doing, where we should be going, what conversations we need to have with our our head coaches about, especially as a junior and senior, you need to have this stuff kind of ironed out because it's a it's can be a stressful process, especially if you have ambitions on going to college and playing football, and more particularly if you want to play on scholarships. So, what my next question was well well, first do you want to add anything onto that?

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah, I do because when you were talking about obviously when you were talking to those coaches and they say they'd want to hear back from your head coach, and I know you mentioned that a little bit in some of your questions, and maybe I didn't directly answer it in that kind of way, but no, you're 100% right when it comes to that, because I know if any of the coaches needed to talk to Coach Davis and about me and my particular situation, obviously I would know, especially with the relationship that I had with Coach Davis, that he would have nothing but good things to say and really promote me in front of those coaches in that sense. So I'm sure that strongly helped out, and that would make sense as to why um I did get a good amount of interest for especially from the coaches that would come by the school.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, for sure. And I and I think before I ask this question, I think that's important that's important for current athletes to understand is like, you know, relationships are everything. Relationships are gonna get you mainly what's gonna get you from the next level to or from where you are right now to that next level, whether it's in college or whether it's whether it's pro. And obviously, neither of us have played pro, but I can only imagine, you know, relationships take you a long way. Like they'll

— What Players, Families, and Coaches Are Responsible For

SPEAKER_01 17:06

give you access to doors and opportunities that you may not get had you not had those relationships. And so specifically with your head coaches, with your coaching staff, knowing what we knowing what we know now, have those conversations. Tell them exactly what you want. If you want to go to college to play football, you need to let them know, especially when these coaches come by. Because even if you're at a small school and our school wasn't small by any means, but our program didn't really have any prestige. We had great athletes come through over the years. So, you know, I I have no doubt, and what we we both know that college coaches were on campus coming to watch our games, coming in the hallways, talking to coaches, whatnot. But the athletes need to take it on themselves to know exactly what they want, what kind of things they're looking for out of a program, what kind of what kind of development opportunities they want they want to have, if they want to play early, if they want to, you know, potentially red shirt and and maybe grow into the player they want to be, you know, if they want to go to a school that has great academics or you know, whatever the case may be, those are the conversations, like you said, that you need to have with your head coach. And having a a great or better relationship, it makes it so much easier. Because, like me, I didn't I didn't give a flip about Coach Davis at all. I didn't like him. And, you know, I don't know if you like me or not, but I know me not having that relationship, that affected my recruitment at least a little bit. And I'm and again, I'm not gonna say that I did everything perfect, perfect because I was a knucklehead in high school. So a lot of that was my own fault. But at the same time, who knows if I would have you know softened up a little bit and tried to develop that relationship where I could be now. So the question I was gonna ask was what do you think high school athletes are responsible for when it comes to being recruited, the athletes and their families, and then where is the separation with what high school coaches are responsible for?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

That's a great question. Um, I do want to touch on you mentioning the relationship aspect of that. Oh my goodness, that was very on point, Jalen. That's exactly right. Um, developing that's what that's what it's all about, developing your relationships, and that's how you get further on the field, but that's also how you get further off the field, too. And that's how you get to the to the places that you want to get to is through relationship building. So strong point made with that. As far as what responsibilities fall on the player is I mean, obviously your performance and what you're putting on tape, that's gonna matter. What kind of effort, what kind of attitude and mindset that you're bringing. Um and when it gets when it comes to specifically recruiting, it's as a player, you do gotta put in the time to do some research on the schools that are showing interest in you. So if there are schools that are coming by and they are showing interest, and you're just like, hey, this isn't where my dream or my mind had me going to or had me going at, and I'm not gonna even think twice about going to this school, then you're doing yourself a disservice. Especially if, like I said, the politics of everything, understanding kind of what caliber athlete you are at the time and kind of where things are going and where you're at in your recruitment process. If you're a very under recruited prospect or at a lower prestige program and there's smaller schools that are coming by and they're showing interest, and you're not even taking the time to really understand where that school is, kind of what that school can do for you, um, and all those different kinds of things, and you're not being open-minded about those things, then then you're failing, you're doing yourself a disservice. Because if all you're waiting for is the bigger programs that you dream about playing or your favorite programs to come by, then you're really limiting what options are in front of you and kind of what your future could hold. And in some cases, some of those are just stepping stones. You do the research, you get one of those little schools that is showing interest in you, that does want to develop you, that does see you as a player that can fit in their program to really buy in. Um, what does that do? Okay, the those the schools that compete with that school, oh wow, they're interested in this guy as a prospect. They're coming by them. Okay, let me see why they're interested in him. Okay, now you got all these other schools that are showing some interest in you too. That's just going to continue to open those doors. But even honestly, though, even more importantly than what that would look like as far as a stepping stone process is getting to more places where you might want to go, is now you can really see like, is this a fit for me? Can I see myself in this kind of situation at this school and developing those relationships with those coaches? Because the more time that those coaches are spending towards you, because time's really the the most valuable thing that those coaches can give to you is their time. And that alone just shows that like you do matter to them. Now it is going to be on you. To ask those questions in probe, figure out do they just care about you as an athlete? Do they really care about you as a person as well? But you'll figure that out as you develop your relationship with those coaches that are showing interest. But that would be my first thing as an athlete. If you do got schools that are showing interest in you, make sure you're doing your research on them, make sure you are considering them and you're not just blowing it over because it's not your favorite school that was showing interest in you. As far as like the coaches, the coaches part in your recruitment, in an ideal situation, uh responsibilities that fall on that coach is making sure you are making yourself open to your players to be able to come in and have those conversations, whether you set yourself to at least have a meeting with each player, going into like, all right, let me make sure I have a meeting with them at the end of their sophomore year, at the end of their junior year. Let me figure out what my player really wants. Do they want to play at the next level? Um, and really being real with them as far as kind of where they see them at, kind of what they can help them at, kind of what schools have come through that might be able to show interest, and then gathering that information from the athlete on where they want to go and where they want to be. And if some of those schools that are fitting some of their um goals that they want to see and they want to do, if they're not at that level that that school wants to be at, kind of asking those coaches and getting those answers of, okay, what do they need to see from you in order for them to feel more confident and furthering their recruitment of you? So I feel like for from the coach, it's on them to be open to have that discussion with the athlete. Like it's a two-way street, right? Like you the coach can't force the athlete to come and speak to them and be open and honest about kind of what they want for their future and different things. But you got to at least put the opportunity in front of them, especially with us being young men in this world growing up. There's a lot that's going on, a lot of changes that you're going through through high school, and we don't have it all figured out. So just letting them know that you're there to support them and that you're open there and you're putting in your effort to try and make sure that you're building a relationship with your athletes is important. And then obviously, as you get to know your players, you get to know kind of what their desires are, where they want to be, where they want to go. Now, when those coaches are coming through, speaking with them and then figuring out, okay, is this a good fit? Do they feel like this is a good fit for the athlete? And if they aren't there in their recruitment process as far as like giving them an offer or showing showing more interest or taking those next steps, okay, what do you need to see from them, or what could they do to make this kind of happen?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

That's a great answer. Um, I was going to kind of I think the thing you said that stuck out to me the most was don't not blowing off schools just because it's not the ideal situation. Because in high school, I mean, we kind of know or we think we know what we want, but I'm gonna be honest. I looking back, bro, I don't think I really knew what I wanted at all. I I said I didn't want to stay in Georgia, but outside of that, I didn't know if I wanted to go to a big school, small school. I didn't know if I wanted to go to a school with kind of a more mixed population, or it was maybe more, you know, one side leaning. I didn't know if I wanted to, you know, I didn't know what I wanted. But what I what I did was I was so focused on when we were when we were coming up, the big thing was D1. Everybody wanted to go D1, right? Yep, I was so focused on that. There was and I remember my dad telling me, Jalen, you need to consider some of these D2 schools and even D3, but my pride got in the way every single time. I was like, man, there's no way I'm not playing D2, I'm not playing D3, I'm not going to HBCU, like none of that. And I ended up going D2 anyways. So, like what I was gonna say is like you said, being open-minded as a player, I feel like, and open-minded and being realistic. If you're like if you're a corner, like we played DB, if you're a corner and you're like 5'7, bro, unless you run like a 4'3 or you have like a 40-inch vert, bro, you need to be keep it real, bro. Like we're not we're you don't see those types of players at Alabama, not playing you you just like I said, I could go on with that example, but just be realistic. Like with me, I knew that I had the opportunity to you know accomplish some of the goals that I had, like, you know, be all American or whatever, but I wasn't open-minded, I wasn't realistic. Like I didn't think of using those opportunities as stepping stones, and that was a great point you made. Some of the schools that have shown interest in you, if you if you take them seriously and basically kind of match their energy, if if you want to use that, uh use that phrase, then other schools will start being interested too. And then that even made me think like, even if the school that you're looking at, even if they're not like, oh yeah, maybe their comp competition level isn't that great at that specific school, there are all kinds of other teams in their conference that may be much better than them. So if they start recruiting you, then schools from outside that conference are gonna be like, hmm, this school is kind of looking at them, you know, maybe let me look at them too. And then you have no idea what kind of domino effect that'll have if you just take that one school seriously. And I'm not saying everybody's just gonna end up with a thousand different offers, but the problem is like you you never know where it's gonna go. But if you cut off one coach, I mean, bro, like you have, and again, we talked about relationships. If this coach is spending his time coming to your school, asking your coach about you, coming to see you play in games at practice, asking all these people about like whatever they can find about you, and you just blow them off, bro. He could go and go and tell two or three other coaches, like, yeah, man, I ain't gonna lie, he just wasted my time, like he just completely blew me off. He didn't even give me the time of day, and then you don't even know the conversations that are going on, but then you'll be like, Oh man, why don't why is my recruitment so dry? Because of that right there, because you just blew that one coach off. So that's that's uh that was a great answer. And I think kind of on the flip side with the coaches, well, as an athlete, you need to go to your coach, it's on you to to um to kind of create this opportunity for yourself. Yes, it's kind of it's in the coaches, the college coach's hands to offer you and and invest these times and and things into you, but the coach can't just come to you and be like, hey, you know, Trent, Jalen, what do you want? Like, it's not his career, his career is over. His career now is to help you be the best that you can be. But if he doesn't know that, bro, we're all we're young men. A part of a young man growing up is not being baby, like you have to be able to mature and grow up and and know what you want. So, yeah, I just thought that was a great point you made, especially about the the open-mindedness part.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yeah, yeah. Two play street. And just like you said uh earlier, all coming back to relationship building, because like you said, you have a bat, one of those coaches that's investing all that time into you, and you're not even giving anything towards trying to build a relationship with that coach in any kind of sense or capacity. What's that coach gonna say to the other coaches that are either on his staff or any other coaches that he has relations with? And it'll tie in. I'll I'll dive in a little bit even more into my own recruiting story because it ties right into it. Um, coaches move all the time, coaches change where they're at, coaches go to different places. So although that coach might be there at that time, especially if it's earlier on in your recruiting

— Trent’s Recruiting Story: Offers, Camps, and Missed Opportunities

SPEAKER_02 29:28

process at whatever school, he might not be there long term. He might end up going somewhere else, or he might have been somewhere else, and he can maybe speak and put good stuff on your name out to those other schools, or as you build that relationship with that coach and he figures out more of your desires and more of what you want to do and see where you're going, if you do have that genuine relationship, um, he might be able to open doors with another school. And I know that that sounds crazy, it probably wouldn't be a rival school, obviously, but whatever school he had previously been coaching at, or whatever school that his buddy that was on the coaching staff with him ended up going somewhere else. So you like you said, you never really know where that can end. So if someone's spending time and wanting to build that relationship with you and you're just blowing it off and not even giving it an opportunity, then that's that's not good either. And time is the most valuable thing, but it's very limited on what we do have on it. So I'm not saying that every little coach that comes in, you got to spend every little waking minute and um doing everything you want. It's it's very important for you to be real, especially be real with one another to cut through the fluff so y'all aren't wasting one another's time. But that doesn't mean that you just don't build or make any kind of relationships with those people either. And being upfront, being honest, being true, that's a that's a strong trait to have as well. And that's very important, especially so you don't waste your time cutting through some of the fluff that you can get lost with through the recruiting process. But diving a little bit more into like my own recruiting process when I was coming out, I'll kind of pick up from the end of my junior year going into the summer, going into senior year. I received my first offer, and that was from the Naval Academy. And I was super excited. Um, I felt like there was so much more to come. I felt like that was the first stepping stone into the into how things were about to go, especially going into the senior year. Um, I had a couple other schools that might have been showing a little bit of interest, but um that first big offer was obviously a great feeling, and I felt really good about it. The oh my goodness, the coaches that were there, they were definitely, especially for the Naval Academy, they invested a lot of time in the recruitment of me, and they really did genuinely care. I'm not somebody that has a lot of regrets about necessarily that per se, but that was a that was a big moment for me in my recruitment, was um obviously getting that first offer, and I felt really good about it. But through my own personal recruitment story, I definitely did get distracted in the chasing the offers that I wanted for some of the schools that might have been showing a little bit of interest in me versus some of the other schools that were a lot more deeply interested in me and actively trying to um had a bigger picture for me. I was I was kind of gonna be one of the guys that they wanted at their program versus okay, yeah, um, we do like you as a prospect, but we still gotta see more. You know what I mean? So, like for me, I was distracted with um, especially once a school like Georgia Tech had started showing interest in me after one of the days. I kind of got honed in on, okay, that's the that's a very ideal situation for me. Close to home, big program, playing on TV, um, playing for a school that I always knew and it um that you always heard about in different things. And so I kind of got locked in on, hey, this is where I want to go, they're showing me a little interest. It ended up being a lot more than just a little interest at the start. But me getting locked in on kind of, hey, this is the fit, this is where I want to go, did limit some of the other opportunities that I maybe could have had. So you don't want to get distracted with chasing, chasing the one opportunity you really like, see, hey, this is it, this is it for me. It's important to recognize that and it is important to pursue it, but you can't just get so locked in that you're not open to the other opportunities that are in front of you. Um yeah, so that was just that was just an important thing to me. It's just really making sure you don't get distracted by that one opportunity that you really want to pursue, and that it it blinds you from the other opportunities that are around you.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Got you. So I would ask, you said Georgia Tech um was one of like the most ideal situation in a perfect world. What would have been the cutoff point for you to really, or I guess what would have justified you not pursuing the the more deeply interested schools? Like what would they have had to offer you, or what would that have been?

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I felt like just like you said, I got distracted with the D1. I knew I had Navy, I knew I was obviously getting interest from Georgia Tech, a few other D1 schools, but Georgia Tech was really the one I was more so locked in on going to go into their camps. I even I can remember what um what really probably trapped me in it a little bit was when I went there for a summer camp. So throughout my the summer from my junior year going into my senior year, I was going to all different kinds of camps. A few from some of the schools, and the ones that I did end up going to for some of the lower schools are probably better for my recruitment because some of those schools actually did end up coming in and visiting, watching us play for some of the games. Um, and one of them ended up eventually being why I ended up going where I went with Presbyterian College at first. But throughout the summer, I would did a good job of going to some of the camps where there was going to be multiple schools that were there, and it was schools that were showing interest in me versus just going to like the bigger camps, going to a Georgia camp, going to the uh Georgia Tech camp, going to this, where it's just their coaching staff that's there, and it's more like a summer camp than anything. But what kind of blinded me is when I went to the um Georgia Tech camp, I had I was running pretty good 40s at most of the camps that I went to. Uh when I was at that camp, they made me run the 40 three times. By the time I ran the third one, they had all the coaches around. After that, we were walking to the stadium, and that's when they pulled me and Anthony were actually at this camp together. And they pulled me and Anthony out of the little drills that we were doing at the camp and they asked us to come up to the coaching office. And this is where I thought in my head, me and Anthony were about to get what we always wanted to hear was about the offer to Georgia Tech. And I thought that was gonna be the moment. But they um they brought us up into the office, and it wasn't quite what I thought it was. Now, thankfully, they were upfront and kind of honest, and that's where they let me know where we were at as far as the recruiting process, how we both were prospects that they had really liked. But kind of at the time, they did have some other prospects that they liked ahead of us. And they were upfront and honest, kind of where we were sitting at with that. And so, me, my ego, I was like, okay, I'm gonna make sure we're gonna change their mind when the season starts and we're gonna get this offer, and then this isn't gonna be ending up where we ended up going. And that's obviously not how the things turned out. But um that was uh that was kind of one of the big moments for me in the summer, and that's kind of one of the things that did get me distracted onto the all right, I'm still just holding on to to Georgia Tech as my main thing, and I wish I would have been a little bit more open. Um, thankfully I wasn't just completely closed off, and I did talk to some of the other schools, and that ended up opening the door. So to kind of get you where I got to, and I know this might not answer your question uh per se, but the reason I ended up going to Presbyterian College is the coach that was recruiting me out of Mercer University, I went to Mercer's camp that summer. Um, his name was Coach Doolittle, and he ended up leaving Mercer after that after that football season. He went to Presbyterian College. And by the end of our um football season that year, from Georgia Tech, I had gotten a preferred walk-on. I'd gotten a preferred walk-on from Western Kentucky, and then it was too late for me to try and pursue the the Navy offer because there's a lot of different things that you got to do if you're gonna go into one of the academies, as far as like letters of recommendations from governors and different things like that. So it was kind of too late to go in on that. And that's when I when I hit the end of our senior season and I'm looking at what I got in front of me, and all I got is these preferred walk-ons and some of the other schools that were kind of interested that I didn't continue to build that relationship with, that I maybe could have turned into some kind of opportunity for myself. They had their recruitment done already. So those doors were kind of closing. But thankfully, I did foster a good relationship with Coach Doolittle from Mercer. And when he saw that I was still that I hadn't committed anywhere yet by the end of the season, um, he had reached back out to me and he let me know that he had taken a new job. He's a defensive coordinator at this new school, that they still haven't finished their recruitment and they're trying to tie things up and they still got some spots open. And he asked if I could come take a visit, come see what they have to offer, come see if I felt like it was gonna be a good fit. Little did he know that it was I my options were extremely limited, so I was very open to what he had. Um, and I ended up taking that visit and ended up seeing like it was gonna be a good fit for me. And because I had developed that relationship with him before, he ended up going somewhere else, and opportunity opened and a door opened, and then that's how I found my home with Presbyterian College.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

That's amazing. Um, so I I wanted to ask, because I I thought about this several times as you've been talking. Were there specific things the coaches said to you or to Coach Davis that they were looking for in your game? Like what or was it were you kind of just playing as best as you could and just kind of improving as the season went on?

SPEAKER_02 39:46

No, just playing as best I could and improving as the season went on. And that's kind of one of the things that that I regret is not being quite as direct um with the coaches through your recruiting process. Because like I mentioned, time's the most valuable thing that we can have, and it's very limited on how much time that we have. So

— Evaluating Your Game and Preparing for Opportunities

SPEAKER_02 40:05

it is important that you do develop those relationships. But as I mentioned earlier, you got to cut through the fluff, um, especially if y'all it's gonna be more productive for both sides. Ask those tough questions, ask those direct uh questions with your coaches that are that you're recruiting. Now, you know what I'm saying. Definitely speak to them like people. You don't want to just sound like a a demanding person or anything like in that sense, but you do want to be direct and make sure that you understand, hey, I I value your time and I value my own time and I want to make sure we're not wasting it. Where are we at as far as the recruiting process? Um, where is your school at? Do you also have like open opportunities at this position? Okay, where am I at? Do you feel like I'm at the point now where obviously you would hope that you could have that kind of offer? But if you're not at the point where they feel comfortable in giving you an offer, okay, what do you need to see from me? Is it a situation where there's something in my game that you want to see? As far as whether it be you playing some kind of um technique, some kind of is it is it effort on film? Is it something else? What is it that's holding them back from pulling that trigger on, hey, I like you? Is it the fact that, hey, we just need to have more conversations, figure out if it's gonna be a good fit? Um something along that sense. You just want to make sure you're cutting through that fluff and asking those direct questions with your coaches so that way you know where you are as far as they stand with the recruitment and what's needed from you to make them more confident and getting towards that place where they can give you the offer.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Okay, cool. So the reason I asked that was because if there were specific things, and this is this is uh I'm talking to you, but also I'm I'm just thinking about uh maybe myself or any anybody else that uh you know we uh played with that went to school and and and went on to do do their thing, uh I'm just wondering if uh college coaches are looking for specific things. If you having a good relationship with your high school coach, I'm wondering if they can if they would even go so far as to kind of put you in a different position, not necessarily physically on the field, but maybe even try to game plan game plan for you to like showcase some of those skills coaches are looking for. Like, for example, um with me, one of my weak points was tackling. So I'm wondering like if it's like, okay, I play outside corner, maybe we can scheme something up where maybe I'm forced to go play in the box on some plays, like and do that. So I I'm forced to showcase my ability to you know get my nose in there, tackle, hit all the other stuff. And you know, for example, maybe somebody needs to work on opening their hips, turning and running with receivers. Maybe if you play safety, okay, certain certain packages, we're gonna put you on the outside, so you have to turn and run with like a tight end, or maybe like a uh a bigger receiver, stuff like that. So does that make sense? Like, do you think that would have maybe helped things, or do you think you were kind of fine where you were and maybe things just panned out the way they did for other reasons?

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Yeah, it's a very tough, tough thing. Especially because now you're getting into the talking about different defensive schemes and kind of like what the way that your team is trying to play. I think that's gonna be a lot tougher to do. Like, I don't know if many maybe more so like from a positional coach standpoint, they can maybe try and do some kind of scheme or some kind of something to help showcase some of that. But at the end of the day, the coaches are gonna do whatever they feel is best that's gonna help them win games. Obviously, their main priority should be developing us as young men, but just from a from a sense of what they're here to. To do as a football coach, their job is to put their team in the best position that they feel like can win them games. And so that's what they're going to do, regardless of hey, um, this school said they want to see how Jalen plays uh man-to-man coverage better. He's not gonna go out of his way to make sure we run a man-to-man scheme against some team if he doesn't feel like that's not the best thing for us to do to win to win that game. So, from that sense, it might be tough. But you did mention once again relationship. So if there is something that may be in the scheme that we don't showcase as much that another school that's kind of what they run, and they're not seeing it on film from you, that's something where your relationship with your kind of head coach is gonna help ease some of that. And then speaking with that coach, um building that relationship with that coach that is interested and that is recruiting you on um him feeling more confident in you as a person. There's because at the end of the day, there is gonna be some things that just aren't gonna translate. There's some teams that run a certain scheme and that the other team doesn't run that scheme, but that doesn't mean that you as a player can't still get that opportunity, whether that be you go into their kind of camps to because I'm sure if they're they're at whatever camps that they're at, especially if it's a camp that that school is running, they're gonna be running through drills and running through things for the the things they want to see. And so then you'll be able to showcase those things at those at those places for that. Um, but as far as actually changing the scheme on game day, like with your coaches, that's gonna be something that's very challenging because I can only see them really doing what they are gonna feel is what's best for their team to win the game.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah, I I agree. And uh, I was just I was just wondering, um, because I like you said there there's a there's very kind of little wiggle room, especially with high school coaches, their jobs being on the line as well. They can't just you know adjust things to specific players at at given times. But I think that does highlight the importance of kind of preparing yourself as the athlete, like especially with the schools that are interested in you, like the things that being direct, you know, becoming this this man, be being direct and asking coaches what specifically they're looking for, but also while you do your research on these schools, know what schemes they run, know what kind of players they currently have, look at their games, like watch them if you if you can, you know, see look at their they everybody has their roster printed out with heights and weights on their on their website. Like you can just see what kind of players they have, um, and kind of see where you match up in that. And then if you're able to watch them play, kind of see like, does does my game kind of emulate what they're doing? And what things do I do that maybe they don't do, or what things do they do that I don't do? And then kind of and obviously once again, this isn't a one-size-fits-all, like you don't want to just put all your eggs in the basket of one school, but it will give you kind of a better idea and help you to be a more well-rounded player. Um, if you are able to kind of identify some of those things that schools are looking for. Um, and like one thing for me was uh like for some reason, bro, I cannot run a good 40. Like my start was just terrible, even in track, which I'm not really gonna get into that, but um, my 40 was just not good. And that's some of the things that they things that coaches told me is like, hey, you know, we need you to run a faster 40. Because even though, like me and you both know, yeah, you may not run a great 40 time, but if you get on the field and you can run, then you can run. It doesn't really matter what the time says. But for coaches, that does matter. They want kids, like they want to see to showcase, like, oh yeah, we got you know 20 kids that can run a 4-4 or faster, and that's important to them. So you can't just be like, oh, well, I can run on the field. No, like you need to take specific steps to as best as you can run faster. And I did that, and unfortunately, I just I can never get my start down. But um, but yeah, I just I just wanted to get your take on that. So uh a follow-up question to that is what should athletes kind of know about themselves before they start seriously considering schools?

SPEAKER_02 48:08

You need to understand where you're at in your recruitment process as far as okay, I'm right now on this like I got this platform. If you're more of a high-profile athlete, it's gonna be a little bit different. I can't really relate, and most of our friends can't really relate because that wasn't our situation. But being real with where you're at in your recruiting situation, and then you got to know the strengths and weaknesses of your game, and you get that feedback from the coaches that you're asking, you know, especially as you, hey coach, you know, I know you recruit me, I know y'all are showing this interest, I know y'all haven't quite we haven't gotten to the stage where you've offered me yet. What what in my game do you need to see me help improve on? And then give you that kind of feedback as far as on what they need to see from you in that sense. Now, when you were talking about like running the 40 and different things, there's some of those um drills that are gonna carry over from camp to camp to camp. Your main priority needs to be getting your school right, first of all. So making sure your academics are good, but be also obviously taking care of yourself, your health and well-being. That's needs to come second. But third is what you're putting on tape. What you're putting on tape is gonna matter more than how fast you run the 40, how fast you do this, or how fast you do that. Now, those drills are important though, and what you can do if you're struggling in those drills is get with your whether it's your high school coach, whether it's um some other trainer that you have, but practice those drills because practice is gonna make perfect. So I was we we both were pretty fast people,

— Life at Presbyterian College

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Jalen. I would say, at least we were at the time.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Um, but I actually I actually was running pretty good 40 times, especially when I went to the camps. But that's something that me and my dad and some of the other coaches that were involved in me, we practiced that 40 drill. That 40 drill is something that I didn't just go out there and show up to the camps and just do. We worked on it and we worked on the different stages of that drill and how to be successful in doing that. So you got to practice, you know, that preparation is gonna help you out with your performance when it comes time to time to actually do it. But don't get, you know, don't put too much value into it. It is important, especially because like there's thousands of people that are playing high school football, and there's like I said, time's the most valuable thing you have, and you got to spend it wisely, especially going from the coach's perspective, especially if it's some some recruit that I don't know. I might have to look at a blank sheet at first and just see what these numbers are saying. If your numbers don't look great, then I might not be looking at you until I come across your film, and then that's gonna make me look at you. But you're not standing out with your numbers if I don't know you yet. So when it comes to those things, just practicing those drills. That perfect, what do they say? Perfect practice prevents poor performance, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Yeah, I I heard uh proper performance, uh proper preparation prevents poor performance.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Poor performance. Yeah, yeah, that's it right there.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Okay, great. Oh, my bad. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 51:23

Um, nah, that was really all I had to say on it.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Okay, cool. So now I kind of want to get to uh the college standpoint. So uh first, what was Presbyterian was kind of like the that was like a uh a Hail Mary essentially and a blessing, major blessing. So what was it like getting there? You say you spent all spent all four years there, correct?

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Yeah, I spent my first four years there.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Okay, yeah, oh yeah, first four. So what was it like getting there going through the program?

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Oh my goodness. Well, when I was there, my school actually went through a very dramatic change. Um, they've changed the conferences that they were in. So when I went there as a freshman, they were part of the Big South, which is a D1 uh AA FCS program uh conference and a scholarship conference. After my freshman year, they brought the team together and they announced that the program was changing conferences. It was still gonna be a D1 AA conference, but they were going to a non-scholarship conference. And so that was gonna change the entire perplexity of what the recruiting was gonna look like for our school and all different kinds of things. And we had a mass exodus of the players from our program. And I was one of them that wanted to look in to see what other opportunities I had. And I tried to tap back into what I had going after high school, and I had nothing. And that's when I really saw the situation for what it was. And what better opportunity do I have in front of me when almost all the players are leaving? I'm gonna have there's plenty of opportunity in front of me to get on the field and play. I'm gonna be playing a sport that I love and doing what I want to do. So that's kind of when I decided to just, hey, let's buy in even more. And so I really what really started making me better as a player is when I started building better relationships with my teammates when I was there. So when I was a freshman, I was a little brought a little bit away from the team. And it's mostly because I was I hurt I got hurt when I was coming as a freshman in camp, and it was very early on in camp. And then I felt the peer pressure of my teammates of like, hey, you know, and and of myself, of trying to get back on the field, trying to show what I can do. And I ended up coming back earlier than I should have from when I pulled my hamstring and I re-aggravated that injury again. And so then I was out even longer. And so that made me a little bit more distant from some of my teammates, especially with the way that some of them, their perception of me or the things that I'll hear them say, and just how I felt like they were challenging me and if I was actually hurt or different things. And so that kind of held me back at the start. But when I really that next year started um building those relationships with my teammates and the guys that I had that were there, that's what really pushed me as a player. So I did put on a good amount of muscle and a good amount of weight from my freshman year to my sophomore year and sophomore year to junior year, and that happened to do with me challenging one of my teammates every day that we were in there in the weight room. And the daily grind of the weight room and that football training is extremely challenging and it is tough. But when you have somebody else that's grinding there through it, and y'all are pushing each other, we used to call it um who's gonna win the belt today. So we're just who's gonna who's gonna have to who's gonna be more of a dog in the weight room that day, who is gonna lift more, who is gonna crush the workouts more. And when you take that attitude in it, and you don't feel like it's just you struggling through the workout, and it's you and your buddies just really getting better in there, when you take that approach to it, it's just gonna make you miles ahead as a player. That's once again, um loving the preparation that's got to go into the game, and that's that's something that can be very tough to do.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

Yeah, that's that's great. Uh, and I love that. And I wish that you know, had things gone differently, obviously uh I would have gotten to experience that, but because of you know my own uh stuff as a young young man, uh I was not able to experience that in the same way. But um that's pretty cool. I remember you mentioning that years ago um about the scholarship and changing conferences thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Um so now like oh we lost at least half of the half of the players that were in our program. Some of them decided to keep, and the good thing is for anyone that came into that school already on scholarship, they were honoring the scholarships too. So it wasn't like they took away anyone's previous scholarships, it just meant moving forward, anybody that was coming into the program was gonna be, um, they weren't gonna be receiving any athletic scholarship money. And what that also meant for our school as far as a competition level is we were still playing in the big south, at least for that next two years. And then the last year, which was gonna be my senior year, we would be playing the pioneer in the pioneer uh league, but we could not win the league because we would still have scholarship players on our roster. And so we had no, we couldn't win any conference championships for the next for the three years while we were going through the transition. Um, so it was tough and like a mass exodus of players. Some of us did stick it out. The group, especially my freshman group that came in, a lot of us did stick and stay, especially with the opportunity we had to play with a lot of the veterans leaving. And so we really developed some good relationships with one another and the team and went through it. It was tough. We were very bad. Our first, our first

— Entering the Transfer Portal

SPEAKER_02 57:03

year after that, my sophomore year, we were very bad. We were getting beat down every game. Um very similar situation. Junior year, we're a little bit better, still getting beat down every game, playing the playing in the big south. But by the time I got to my senior year, um and our group was really tight, and we were playing on a little bit more even of a playing field as far as the competition for what we had on our team and what we were facing against. And we had by far our best season my senior year, but also I know you mentioned COVID earlier, so COVID happened our senior year, and that changed it. They canceled our season for the fall, and they ended up doing a spring season, and it was gonna be a shortened season. So we only had seven games on the schedule, and I ended up missing the first game because I caught COVID and I missed the first two games. So I only had a five-game season, and this is going into my senior year. It might be the last time that I'm playing football, and I've I'm knowing that and accepting that I don't want it to be, and I don't know, like it didn't look like there was gonna be much of a chance or any hope for any professional, especially where I was at with my college career at the moment. I didn't want it to be the end, and I knew I still had at least another year to play, and now another two years with the extra COVID year that you would that you were gonna get or that we got for that year. Um, but I was very uncertain on kind of what the future was gonna hold. So I just did what I could do, put my head down, prayed on it, um, and just played as hard as I could while I was out there and made the most of the opportunities I had left in front of me. And so that actually ended up opening up my second recruiting experience in the transfer portal. So I did enter the transfer portal again um coming out of after my senior year, and I had no idea what was gonna come for it, what it was gonna look like. Um I just put a little highlight tape together, put it out, got into the portal, and we're just gonna see what happens, especially with our season happening in the spring, and then the next football season still gonna happen in the fall. So the timeline of this recruiting, with it being with me not being like a high schooler and having junior sophomore year, junior year, senior year, it's gonna be like extremely timeline's a lot shorter. Um But I ended up actually getting some pretty good interest. The first week or two, I didn't hear much of anything. Um and then I ended up starting it things started to pick up and they started picking up pretty quickly. I got a f a few offers from some other FCS programs um that we're feeling pretty good about, and then I got I had some interest from some other FBS programs too. The first one that reached out to me was Northwestern, which is where I ended up going. Um But the recruiting, if I had to compare the difference between those two recruiting processes, it's I still didn't have much of like it was still kind of just me on my own, and I wish I would have had somebody else to turn to, or I wish I would have tried to turn to somebody else to help me out with it. I always have my coaches, I always build a good relationship with my head coaches. So when the other coaches would reach out to my head coach, they would always have nothing but good things to say. I know I'm a little all over the place. I don't know if you want to try and get me back in line with a question.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Yeah, no, you're good. You're you were going the right direction. I was gonna ask you what was the process like when you were transferring, like um, I know you say there was some interest from FCS schools, and Northwestern was was one of the first uh to show interest. Um Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Actually, you know what? I got you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

All right, so kind of running into a similar circumstance that I did when I was coming out of high school. Um, I got the because once Northwestern had reached out to me, that's when I was like, oh man, like that would be a really good opportunity. There were some other FPS programs that were sounding pretty interested too, but Northwestern was the ones that were continuing to reach out to me, um building those relationships, and then eventually gave me the offer. Um and I still had those other FCS programs that were talking to me and mentioning things to me, and it really came down to me whereas either I was gonna go to Southern Illinois or Northwestern were the two that I was really debating between. Those were the two programs where I was getting um where I was getting not daily calls from the coaches, but I was getting constant um communication with those coaches. I got to talk with multiple people that were on the staff. We got to talk about what kind of schemes they like to run, kind of what they were how they saw me fitting into those schemes that they were running, and kind of what the expectations were going to be going into that season. So I did a better job of building those relationships and maintaining those relationships with the coaches that were talking to me through in that, but once again, it was a lot shorter of a process and a lot quicker.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Okay, so um uh beside what was there anything else besides besides them offering you that kind of made you more interested in Northwestern? Like what would Southern Illinois have to have to do to make you kind of str more consider them?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:30

Great question. So what it really came down to with those is with Northwestern, uh the it was the stage that I needed to that I felt like I needed to further my career if I was gonna make it professionally. But on top of that, the resources that were available at Northwestern, especially as far as you consider the degree that you can get from a prestigious school like that, the facilities that they had, they had just built a new facility like a few years ago, and it's one of the top facilities in the country, and it's state of the art, brand new weight room. They got an indoor practice field. Um, they got all different kinds of things that they give their players as far as like the when I say supplements, I'm not talking about pills, I'm just talking about like um protein and stuff that's available to them, other kinds of like recovery supplements that you'll take as far as cherry juice, as far as some of the other things, but just like the resources

— The Jump to Northwestern

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

that they had to invest was top versus Southern Illinois. The thing that was really drawing me to Southern Illinois is I was gonna have a much better opportunity of playing. The coaches at Southern Illinois were talking to me more about how I was gonna fit in exactly into the scheme that they were running and um just what they felt like I could do for them uh as a player, as a as a leader on their team, um, and where they what their ambitions were for their upcoming season. Because Southern Illinois, they are they're a pretty good FCS program, and at the time they were coming off some success, and they were looking at trying to further their playoff runs uh within their within their conference or within the FCS. And so what Southern Illinois, I can't say they could have done anything differently that would have made me choose differently. Um I just felt for me that Northwestern was the opportunity that I was looking for. But at both places, I had great communications with the coaches. Um, we built great relationships. They not just talked about what I could do for them on the field, but we talked a little bit about as far as what I could do with the degrees that I was gonna do when I was coming there for graduate school and just how they could obviously help me out as a human being.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

Yeah, that's great. I remember um I remember you you telling us, and I'm like, wow, like that's that's a really huge step, and I was I was so happy for you. Um and I remember you telling me about like I remember you telling me about the facilities and everything. And um, but I want to ask, what was that like from a competition perspective, going from Presbyterian to going to like a major, like even though it's not like headline, you know, program from like a football perspective, but it's still like a huge program uh as far as like the conference and everything and and uh all that. But so what was the what was the competition level like um going from Fayette to Presbyterian now to a uh a major major D1?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

Oh yeah, it was shocking. So the jump from Fayette to Presbyterian, those are kind of they were similar-ish. I I don't want to like downplay Presbyterian as if they're they're our high school, so I'm not saying it in that sense, but uh less resources available for that kind of program. Coach is a lot more responsible for all the ins and outs that go into the operation. There's less people that are involved. As far as like travel and planning, scheduling, practicing, different things like that. Coaches are a lot more hands-on at those kind of smaller program uh places. And they gotta wear multiple hats in the things that they're doing. Um when I went to Northwestern, the resources was the was the biggest, was the biggest gap. It was nothing, it was a whole different game. It was a whole different experience. From the locker room, from what we had available to us, from the film rooms, from the practice fields, uh, from what gear that we had, how they would give out the gear, what it was it was just entirely different, different game as far as that goes. Now, when you talk about the the other drastic differences I was seeing, it's just how planned out things were at Northwestern versus some of the other things. Like every minute of that practice is scheduled, it's detailed. You walk through what the expectation of like what you're gonna do before you go out onto the field is in the meetings. Um and then just the and even like the data and science and stuff that they were incorporating into why they were doing some of the things that they were doing. I know one of the things that caught me off guard at first. I don't know if you know what a what catapult is, and I'm sure they got other companies now that do some of the very same things, but catapult is like a data tracking thing that they would attach to a vest that you would wear. And this vest was more like a bra-looking like vest than uh than what you would typically think of. But they would they would have us wear that even when we're just going out for practicing, whether it be conditioning, whether it be um a normal practice, they would have that, and that was so they could track um, all right, this is how much he's moving, this is how much um and like they what they could do with that data is let's say somebody got hurt, and so let's say somebody had a bigger load, load of work that they had to go through and practice.

— Marriage, Maturity, and Team Chemistry

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

They could see how much more of a workload that was, and then they could also compare that as to like how that athlete would do with that workload. Okay, the next day that athlete was feeling, you know, like really poor, didn't recover very well from that. Okay, then we know we shouldn't put that kind of workload on on that athlete and we need to dial it back some more. Or just from a it was just entirely different game from monitoring, monitoring stuff from that standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

That's that's pretty amazing. And I I've heard and seen of programs using the catapult and and all the other, like you said, there's I think there's maybe one or one or two I've seen um besides that, but that's very interesting from like uh because for me being able to track like their volume, especially with weightlifting and stuff like that. Did you feel like that made you do you feel like you got like stronger or in in better shape with with that kind of detail, or was it uh was it more the same?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

It definitely made me stronger. Um, not at the end of the day, the way you get stronger, you eat and you you work out. Like, let me not like sugarcoat in different things. I ain't some kind of like other way to to get those things done. But there's there is more detailed and better ways to get those things done. And just like that data would help. The main thing that some of those other trackings would do is help with like injury prevention and just making sure that you understand how what you're doing is impacting your body to know if it's something you should continue or if it's something that we need to change up versus a school that doesn't have that, then you don't really know until it's already hit that kind of point. Um what else? One other thing that I did fail to mention that was a major thing for me is when I did do the transition from uh Presbyterian to Northwestern, I also was adding into the fact that in my life, um I had I was engaged at that time. So I had a whole nother element to my life that I was including because then when I ended up going from Presbyterian to Northwestern, uh we were engaged while I was still at Presbyterian, and then we ended up getting married shortly before we left to then go to Northwestern. So newly married guy going to a new uh entirely new program, didn't really have any relationships with anybody that's already on the team. So it was an entirely different kind of experience for me. And that was the first time I was living off campus. I had been on campus my whole time while I was at Presbyterian, and it was just a whole new world. And then you include all the different things I just mentioned about what resources were available to the school, and even my first encounter with snow. So just a funny story to add on to that is I was, oh my goodness, so underprepared. I had my floor fusion, I ain't got four-wheel drive, I don't have all weather tires. It's my first time in like the winter season up north. I ain't never experienced the snow and ice before. And we one morning, it was just snow all white outside when I looked out the window and the roads were all iced out. And I was like, why don't I have no text, no call, no nothing from our coaches about practice or anything, be it about waitlisting, being canceled, nothing. And so I had to got in my car the first time driving on that ice. Oh, Jalen, it was so scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:29

Dang. It was so scary, but it was good.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Obviously, everything was fine. Um, I ended up getting where I needed to go, but a lot of different eye-opening experiences that I had when I went to Northwestern.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

Wow, that's amazing. Um, and stuff like that, I feel like you don't you don't really consider unless you unless you're in it. Because like, you know, well, obviously we're from Georgia and you go to South Carolina. I mean, they'll get a snowstorm every, you know, maybe every blue moon, but nothing regular. Exactly, just like Georgia. But you know, you go up there, that's something that's regular for them. That's not nothing, nothing major. Like you said, you wasn't getting no texts or nothing. It's like, yeah, this is this is what we do. Like they that's uh, but that's it's funny you mentioned that. Um, I remember having a similar experience in in Charleston, West Virginia, um, where it's like uh not the same with the snow, but I remember looking outside one day and it was super sunny, middle of the winter time, and uh I'm about to go to class, so I'm like, okay, cool. I didn't even I didn't think to look at the weather or anything. And I put some shorts on, put some slides on, got my book bag, got a jacket on, and I I walk outside and we had like this little um well, anyways, I literally get to the front door, and I as soon as I just take a crack, bro, the cold wind just flew into the building, and bro, it just sent chills all over my body. And I'm like, what the heck? Like it's it's sunny outside, man. I checked my my uh freaking weather out, but it was like 10 degrees outside. And I was like, oh no, sir, I gotta go get dressed right now. But it's just so funny how um being from the south, you know, it's sunny outside. You thinking, oh yeah, it's pretty warm, but that's that's not always the case, especially in the wintertime uh up in those northern states.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:08

Yeah, that went that wind is cutting, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

Yeah, no, that's that's pretty cool though. So I wanted to ask, you said um, how did how did being married kind of help your uh help your transition into northwestern? And how was the reception with your new teammates and everything? Because I well, I'll let you I'll let you go first. What was that like?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:33

Um it certainly didn't hurt my transition to Northwestern. It was just uh it was a different element. Uh my relationship with my wife is amazing. We have an amazing marriage together, and she's always been extremely supportive, she's always there for me. So there was nothing nothing wrong or nothing bad to say about that sense, but it did change the dynamic of what kind of relationship I had with my teammates at the time. And it probably shouldn't have. It's not like she would have held me back from wanting to go hang out with my teammates in any sense like that. She would always be supportive of whatever I needed to do or wherever I needed to go for those things. But me navigating that and just being newly married and then connecting with my teammates, and I got teammates that are just incoming freshmen or just these young guys that are at a different spot in their life versus kind of where I'm at in mine, and I'm coming into a new program. So it did make the relationship building with my teammates, it added a different wrinkle and um its challenges with that. And that also just goes into kind of like me as a person. I'm a little bit more, it takes me a little bit longer to really buy in and really start to show uh my true self to to those others that are around me and to make those kind of friends. I can communicate and and talk with and speak with people just fine too. But to really like them to really get to know me, that does take some time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:01

Yeah, I I definitely understand that. I got engaged um the January of my senior year. So basically the before the before the spring semester started, my senior year, and I ran track that that spring, and you know, all my teammates, I had most of them I had never even met before. Some of them I played football with, but um and also I was 23 at the time because I spent, you know, I've talked about this on the pod before, but you know, I goofed off my freshman year of college, and so that basically moved me back. So I basically spent two years kind of figuring my stuff out before I went to Morehouse, and then spent four years at Morehouse getting through the whole process and everything. So by the time I was a senior, I was 23. So being on the team with, like you said, freshmen and sophomores, and these dudes are like 18, 19 years old. I'm four years older than them. Man, they was calling me unk and all kinds of things, and you know, I'm telling them I'm engaged and stuff, and it they were like just asking me so many questions, and and not that it was annoying, but it was just um, like you said, it's kind of difficult managing sports, managing like new teammates and whatnot, and then managing like your your your uh your fiance and that and your wife, like because you wanna you obviously you want to make sure your wife is taken care of first and foremost, and then you're making sure your grades and then your your athletic performance are on par. But then, like the part we've been talking about the whole time, you have to build those relationships with your teammates. Because you you want to be make sure you're all you're on the same page, you want to make sure that uh they know you're there for them and that they're there for you, but you can't do that without them knowing you. You can't do that without them seeing you, you know, sweat and and communicate and laugh and have a good time and you know cut up a little bit. Like you can't, you can't increase or you can't uh build that chemistry without those things. So yeah, it's interesting to hear you say that. And but I feel like um some of my teammates, they kind of they were hesitant. They were like, man, you you kind of still young to be getting married, man. And so even though it's not about sports, kind of speak to that. Speak to that, like being kind of still relatively young, making the decision to get married. Like, there's a lot of unmarried people, and obviously I'm not expecting in college to just get married. I don't think well, that's a whole nother conversation. But how what was that like being a married guy in a room full of like young uh young men?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:20

Yeah, it's definitely different. Um, like you said, you're just looked at more as like the unk, more of the mature guy, more of the like, wow, that's kind of crazy um kind of thing. But at the end of the day, it's not like me and you are advocating, hey, yeah, get married as early as you can. But um, when you got the right person and you know it's the right person, and you know, like, hey, that I want this person in my life for my life, and this is what's right for me, then uh none of that really, really does matter. Now, obviously, for your teammates, there's gonna be the jokes, there's gonna be the things that come along with that, but that's just the camaraderie of it. Um but it you you are it's it's a different environment for you in the locker room for sure. Because I know one of my other teammates actually got engaged while we were while while I was there too. And then he started getting some of the very similar treatments that I was getting with it. Uh nothing, no bad stuff by any means, but like you said, it is different. It definitely is different. You are the the unk, the more mature guy, the oh wow, that's the married guy. That's the so it is a little different, but it's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

Yeah, same. Yeah, it it is very fun. And it's um my my experiences with with being in different locker rooms and being around different teammates multiple times in my career. It was um challenging to adjust, to say the least, but I think what stayed consistent was just you know, there's nothing like that locker room energy, there's nothing like that, you know, kind of weight room shenanigans, like you said, kind of challenging each other to be to be better, to, you know, to be the best that you can be. Like there's there's nothing like it. And and now being outside of it, it's it's very seldom replicated. Like there's very few environments

— Advice for Overlooked Recruits

SPEAKER_01 1:19:06

I've been in since then that can that provide that same level of motivation that doesn't like almost solely rely on me intrinsically wanting to be better. Like there's there's very few people in environments um besides former athletes that are able to kind of challenge you and push you to to reach that next level.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:26

Yeah, I can agree with that. And like you said, building those relationships with your teammates. Uh, I don't think of no better place than all the breakfasts, lunches, and dinners that we shared in uh in the dining halls. That's those are such great times, man. But that's where we used to cut up, that's where we really develop those relationships, playing basketball off the court, messing around in the locker room, um just kicking in, hanging out, you know, that's it's so so important. It's just it's good for you, it's gonna make you feel better, it's gonna put you in a better mindset. And when you can get like-minded individuals together, it just makes it whether it be subconsciously, whether it be you actually just feeling better about it too, but it gives you that extra energy, that extra effort, that extra drive that you need to be even better than you were. So it's like extremely important.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:26

Yeah, most definitely. So uh kind of wrapping everything up, what advice would you give? And we kind of been putting in little nuggets every now and then, but concretely, what advice would you give to a high school athlete that's listening to this right now who feels overlooked or who doesn't know how to navigate recruiting? What would your tips be?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

All right, so my advice, my biggest takeaways from this would just simply be uh like for the recruiting experience, don't get starstruck with where you think you want to go. Open your mind and really listen to those that are spending their time on you, especially the ones that show a genuine care for you, like as a person, not just a football player. Don't be afraid to cut through the fluff with the coaches and ask those direct questions that you need to that that need to be asked, that you need those answers for, because you don't want to spend too much, you don't want to waste that time because the time is just so valuable. And be honest of where you're currently at in your recruiting process, and that way you can kind of know where you're at with them, what else is needed or that you need to do or what's needed to be seen for you to get to that next stage with them. Um what and some some questions, for example, would just be like where where are we currently at in the recruiting process? What else is needed or do you need to see from me to earn an offer? What would set me apart from the others you currently have in the room? How do you plan to help me develop on and off the field? What are the areas of my game that you see as my strengths, and what areas do you see uh as opportunities that I need to get better at? So not being afraid to ask those direct questions. And then once again, don't get starstruck, don't get stuck on the one place that you really want to go, whether it be because they've shown you some kind of interest um or that's my dream school of where I'm wanting to go. You keep an open mind because, like we said, those relationships that you build with those other places, you never have any idea what doors that those could open because you don't know where that coach has previously been. You don't know what uh other friends that coaches might have, what other relationships that coaches have with other programs and how those doors can open up for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:54

Absolutely. I think that was a perfect way to end it. Um, we're gonna take a quick break and then we're going to get into it's kind of a similar topic, what we were talking about earlier, the transfer portal, but we're gonna relay it to a concrete example of how it benefits some of these college teams. So make sure you stick around for that. We're gonna take a quick break

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SPEAKER_01 1:23:13

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— Transfer Portal + Indiana Hoosiers

SPEAKER_01 1:23:59

off. Okay, cool. So um now uh I want to talk about uh the transfer portal and how uh it already has kind of shaped the way college sports are are kind of playing out. And one of the perfect examples of this is the 2025-26 college football champions, the Indiana Hoosiers. Um, you know, the 2025 season was um absolutely amazing for them. There was a lot of kind of um, I mean, you know how the sports media gets talking about these good teams and whatnot, and the coaches, and uh there wasn't really any drama surrounding them, but obviously people are gonna have their favorites like Ohio State, Alabama, all that kind of stuff. But you know, what coach uh Signetti did going into the transfer report, it says he brought in 30 transfers and including 13 that played for him at James Madison. You know, they also had one of the oldest rosters in in all of college football. And you know, there were there was speculation on that. But what I was thinking was like, you know, having all that experience, having the chemistry, having the the repetitions, having the maturity, having like the the callous of having played college football for you know at least three or four years, to have a team full of those guys who understand what's on the line, what's on the line, how to get it done, and how to be kind of disciplined in some of these situations. Uh to me, that was like a perfect example of how the transfer portal should be used. Now, for incoming freshmen or for the like the the small recruiting class of Indiana for that year, that may have not been great for for some of those players who may have wanted to go because obviously the coaches um more than like more likely than not told some of those players like, hey, we're we're kind of having a specific goal in mind, we need to get this done, and yeah, you're a great player, but we're kind of going a different direction. That's how I I imagine those conversations went. Um I I kind of wanted to get your take on two different sides. One, how do you think a situation like this with the with the Hoosiers going in the portal, picking up all these big players? How do you think um how do you think high school recruits should kind of approach schools like that? Schools that have an opportunity to compete for championships. How do you think that plays into them being realistic, asking these questions, but also kind of trusting in themselves, knowing like, hey, you know, I know I'm talented, I know I can compete for a spot. Where do you think the the line with that should be drawn?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:32

As a high schooler, the oh man, seeing what the Hoosiers did. I would say the transfer portal is more like um a fallback plan for for lack of better words. Um, you obviously want to make sure like where you're deciding to go, you want it to be your forever home. That's the intention for it. Hey, I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna be here for these three, four years, hopefully four, get your degree, maybe if you can even get it in three, but um get your degree, accomplish the things you want to accomplish, and hopefully everything marries up, and that's exactly what you were hoping for. And then if things change, if something's not the right fit, if there's better opportunities out, situation changes, stuff like that, then thankfully in today's world, you have the transfer portal that you can go into. And oh my goodness, it's such a wild, wild west territory, and I know they're making different changes and trying to trying to standardize some processes and and make some sense of it, but it is a crazy thing out there now. But as far as like being in high school, considering the transfer portal, that's more like a fallback plan. You're obviously the biggest hope is to, hey, where I'm going, this is gonna be the place where I need to be at. And it's probably not, you do obviously got to take things year by year. But you probably don't want to go there having the intentions of trying to go somewhere else. Now, if it ends up happening, that's kind of what ends up happening. As far as the transfer portal in Indiana, that was just such a unique situation. That, I mean, Signetti's always, if you look back at his history, just the success that he had at James Madison before he went to Indiana, and then him taking so many of those JMU transfers and implanting them into Indiana just made it for the special situation that it turned out being. I don't think that's something that can be replicated. Now, I do think it does show a blueprint of like for some other schools, hey, you know, utilizing that transfer portal to get some of the older guys to fill whether it be the leadership role that we need, whether it be a gap at a position that maybe through the recruiting class we didn't quite get what we needed. Uh, it can be a good answer in that sense and a good blueprint for that. And you would expect that from the veteran players that are coming in. Hey, this person's experience with college football, they know what a college football program looks like. Uh, we should know they can take care of the their academics this way or how they can help us out on the field that way. But there's also the other side of the coin to that. If you are just relying on some of those older players, there's less, they're not as and we're all we're talking about young men now, so they are plenty malleable and have plenty of development and different things that they can do. But it can be a little bit tougher for you to try and mold one of those players that's already been, hey, they know this is how they used to do something, and this is how they used to do it at wherever they were at, and then trying to get them to convert to your new style can be a little bit tougher for a more veteran player versus a younger player that you can they don't know anything else, so what you're showing them is the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:54

Yeah, I agree, and that's kind of a the thought I had too is it just kind of highlights, like you said, talent evaluation. Like how coaches are looking for very specific traits in to match their scheme, very specific traits in players um with obviously physical abilities, but um kind of to me, they had a uh a few players that, for example, they had a corner. I'm not sure if he went, I think he went to the draft. Uh, I can't remember his name, I think his last name was Pons. Uh, but he was uh on the what we would call maybe on the smaller end of being a corner, I think he was like 5'10, maybe. Um but like man, he he was a dog, bro. And I think that is what stands out to me in this new age of the transfer portal and how it kind of affects recruiting out of high school and recruiting between colleges, is that if you want to make yourself stand out, kind of like we were talking about earlier, film study, film study, film study. That was one thing that was heavily lacking in my game in high school and in college, if I'm being completely honest. But looking back, I just see I see how much of a game changer that can be. And that's what takes great players in college to be great players in the NFL or even average players, because that's kind of like that's like bare minimum for for NFL, I would assume. But you know, if you want to stand out in high school, bro, watch film, bro. That's how you make yourself an element to a college team. And that's how if you want to play early and play for these big time teams, know exactly what you're looking at, know what kind of routes you're looking at in college, know the depth of the routes, know what the quarterback's drops are looking like. Like, look at what what linemen are doing, like whether a lineman is in a pass set or if he's in a run block from your from your read steps, if you're especially playing off coverage, and we're talking about DBs here because it's obviously different for different positions. But I think that it kind of points out to me just the mentality you have to have in this new era. If you want to play, you need to show that you are mentally capable and obviously physically capable, physically capable. But any college can build a physically competent athlete. That's not really a surprise. But what coaches can't do is make athletes mentally prepared. Well, I guess in a way you can, but I think you have to take the onus on yourself to bring that to a program, whether it's out of high school or whether it's in college, you have to have that mental preparedness to be able to put yourself in the best positions.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:14

Yeah, and that's that's not something that's easy to do. And watching film is highly important, but this all ties back to building relationships and not just relying on yourself because watching film is highly important. But if you don't know what you're looking at, because you broke down a lot of good concepts that you were mentioning and that and things you should be looking for, but some of those people they they probably won't even know, okay, I'm watching film, but I don't know what I'm looking at. So is it really helping you? Maybe a little bit, but not if you're not watching it with that intention and that attention to detail that you need to know what you're looking at and to understand um what we're accomplishing by looking at this. So tapping in, watching film, very important. Tap into your resources, learn how you need to watch film, learn what you should be looking for, what's important.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:03

I

— Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_01 1:33:04

agree. Uh, is there anything else you want to add on that uh before we before we start wrapping up here? No, yeah, it points ahead. Okay, cool. Well, thank you again for joining, Trent. Uh, this has been a pleasure. Thank you for the insights, and I hope that you as a listener got something from this. Uh, this this man has given us uh plenty to think about. Um, but before we leave the locker room, make sure you're subscribed and locked in for the next episode. If this conversation gave you something to think about, comment your thoughts and share it with another athlete. And remember, the game changed, but your story is still being written. Take care and God bless.