446: The Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1995)

This week we're unpacking The Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1995). We trace its messy production history, praise Matthew McConaughey and Renée Zellweger's committed performances, and debate how its tone turns backwoods grime into cult appeal. This episode contains spoilers, beginning at 28:31.

Mentioned in the Episode

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 The Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1995)

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Transcript

Kris 0:04

He's kind of just a sidekick in his own franchise, so it's kind of fucked up. It's kind of weird. Few horror franchises have had a path as strange as the one that began in 1974 with a grimy regional nightmare out of Texas. Now, two decades later, one of the original movies key creative voices actually returned to the series with a follow-up that carried its own strange production history. An Austin Financed Project, a task full of future stars, multiple competing cuts, legal disputes, and a release pattern that helped turned it into the lowest grossing entry in the franchise. Tim Hankel, who co-wrote the original film, wrote and directed this return to the material with a vision that pushed the series into a more self-aware and conspiratorial territory. And what begins as a familiar wrong-turn setup gradually becomes a stranger question about fear, performance, and who gets to profit from it. This week, we're talking about the return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

Sean 1:57

Total joke, a waste of time. Or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended.

Kris 2:02

My name is Kris. I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur, Sean.

Sean 2:09

I think you're chasing the wrong tale, buddy. And you're tuning in to the return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, also known as The Next Generation. But if you support the show, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode, where we get into these zany horror sequels and break down what makes a cult classic.

Kris 2:27

I'm so glad that you bring this up, at least the alternative title, because that's actually how I know this movie, Sean. It's almost like Black Christmas 1974. Did you know that that movie actually also goes by Stranger in the House?

Sean 2:43

Oh shit, I don't think I actually knew that one.

Kris 2:46

Yeah, I grew up in a household where I knew that movie as A Stranger in the House, and I knew this movie as The Next Generation. I was surprised to find that apparently a more popular title is Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. What the fuck is this? Is it Jedi now?

Sean 3:04

I know. Well, listen, you're either the Jedi aspect or you're the Star Trek Next Generation, you know what I mean? And if, you know, I'm just if Mac was here, the next generation, I'm sure, would be the title that he chose, for sure, without a doubt.

Kris 3:17

Yeah, just like also the Return of Michael Myers, Revenge of Michael Myers, or Curse of Michael Myers.

Sean 3:22

I mean, we love we love those types of titles. They're catchy, you know. But no, I think the I think the title flip was literally, I think it was originally called the Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre or what have, or Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But because uh once a couple years later, flash forward, once Matthew McConaughey and Renee Zellweger got big in other movies, they decided to re-release this and call it something different because try in probably in an attempt to get more money, you know, get people to buy this movie.

Kris 3:56

That is one hell of a strategy. I will say this was also my introduction to both Renee Zellweger and Matthew McConaughey, which is wild in hindsight, obviously, because both of them went on to have very different careers from what this movie might suggest. They really pulled Tom Hanks out of this one. But I remember seeing this and thinking, damn, Matthew McConaughey is a crazy motherfucker. I wasn't that far off, to be clear, but I had such an impression of him based off this movie specifically. And the next time I saw Renee Zellweger, it was in Bridget Jones's diary.

Sean 4:34

You're like, what the hell? I mean, maybe still, you know, maybe still got that emotional depth, I think. She shows up pretty well in this movie. We'll talk about it. But yeah, your first introduction to Matthew McConaughey is him completely wild in this movie. Must be a quite an impact.

Kris 4:50

Honestly, I mean, I'll reveal my feelings on this movie as we go, but I think he does a hell of a job in this movie. He is certainly delivering what this role demands. And I actually, Sean, have a real fondness for this movie, and part of that is tied to when and where I first saw it. Because I don't I don't I'm sure I've told you this. I lived in Texas for a not insignificant portion of my youth, down to the point where I used to have a country accent for a little while. And the first time I saw this, I mean, I moved from Miami to North Carolina in 1996 and then North Carolina to Texas in 1997. And the first time I ever saw this movie was when I was living in East Texas. So for me, all of these things connected, and even if this movie isn't fucking great, it does scratch like a happier time in my brain.

Sean 5:48

Yeah, it's crazy how movies will do that to you, you know what I mean? They just they stick with you because of a specific point in your life. Wild. But this one, I personally I've seen it before, but it's been so long. I saw it maybe a long time ago. Probably when I was in my early teens, is probably when I saw this for the first time. And I completely forgot that this movie even existed. I think I even told you that I totally forgot that this one existed when I put it on last night. I literally was watching it last night and just was like, oh man, it's all coming back to me. It wasn't until the movie kicked in that things were starting to, you know, slowly come back to me. And, you know, from what I can remember, this was one of the more nuttier Texas chainsaw massacres in the franchise. And that's really saying something given how nutty this Sawyer or you know, in this case, Slaughter family gets. I think it gets really convoluted over the years, but it's definitely one of the more nuttier versions for sure.

Kris 6:49

Nutty is such a great way to sit to describe this because let's also remember that everything is bigger in Texas. So when you decide to go rogue and pull something campy out of your ass, that is gonna be bigger too. What I appreciate is that the movie opens specifically by pulling us back to the original film's mythology. It takes you back to August of 1973. There's news coverage, the horror of what was discovered, and then the idea that no one was ever apprehended. And that's the opening title card of this film.

Sean 7:25

Yeah, the title card. Yeah. I thought it was it was great. When it first came on, I was listening to it and I was like, okay, it's kind of setting it up, but I had to do a double take because I was like, wait, did they really just they gave us the release date timeline of this franchise and just kind of tied it all together in like that one little opening thing?

Kris 7:44

Yeah, yeah, they really opened it up with this thing happened and it was terrible, nobody was caught, and then a little bit later, something else happened and then nothing, and then something else happened, and then nothing. It was like the worst attempt at retconning a timeline I have ever seen in one paragraph, and it was it was a sight to behold. But what I do appreciate about this movie, going back to what you're saying about it being nutty, this movie immediately from when it starts, it is not subtle at all. It is messy, it is heightened, it is absurd, but I think that's also part of what works to its charm from the moment you get a close-up of Renee Zellwacker's character applying red lipstick that we then see later on come up in a different way for a different character. Yeah, this movie is just a little wacky.

Sean 8:36

It's super wacky. This film is a wild ride that feels, I mean, it can feel hard to follow. It continues to get, I think, more and more ridiculous all the way to the very last minutes of this film. It's just one of those movies that if you're gonna throw this on, sit down, strap in, and just have a good time because it's gonna be a wild, wild ride. I had a mixture of feelings while watching this movie. I felt like just all kinds of things. A whole lot of confusion for sure was like another thing that happened. The story doesn't really set up any like real groundwork, it just kind of throws you into the party in hopes that you'll kind of enjoy the ride. But I think I also just felt a lot of fun because the performances we get are so wild and so unhinged that you almost have to have a good time while watching this. But I think you also have to kind of be into this type of horror film to have a good time. I think. I think that's another thing. Like if you're gonna go into a horror movie and you're like you're just vibing for like something serious, I don't know. You have to like a specific type of nutty to be able to kind of sit down and follow this movie and have a good one. I think it's it's one of those horror movies where almost every creative decision feels intentionally designed to either fascinate viewers or completely alienate them. Like it you just it's one end of the spectrum, I feel like you're just it's just either you're gonna be captivated or you're gonna be completely put off. It's a huge part of why I think it kind of developed this cult reputation over time.

Kris 10:08

It's so funny you say that because as you began speaking, you're talking about like, hey, settle in, enjoy it. This movie really does have big buckle up and enjoy the ride energy. But as I reflected more on this and I was thinking about it, this movie is sweaty as hell, it's chaotic as hell, it's backwoods nightmare as hell. It is gross, not unlike Rob Zombie, and yet somehow I still feel like this is less polarizing than a Rob Zombie film, probably because I don't know actually, what is the quality that it's missing? They're not saying fuck every five seconds.

Sean 10:50

Well, they're not maybe they're not saying fuck every five seconds, but they also don't have as much violence, like it's really it's it it has it, but it shows it in different ways. Like this is not, and we'll get into it, but this is not a super graphic Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Kris 11:05

It's not, and what I do appreciate though is that even if it's not that graphic, it still feels perilous. I actually think the family in this one. Oh my gosh, I'm probably gonna get dragged for this. Let me also just start by saying that I'm not a huge fan of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre in particular, but I think Matthew McConaughey alone holds enough presence and weirdness for me that he actually overshadows any of the other Sawyer family members that I've seen so far. Yes, that includes Chop Top. No thanks. I think he's actually a huge part of why this movie feels so watchable and memorable for me. He has this like really unsettling energy that I think it like gives the movie a charge, a jolt every single time he shows up.

Sean 11:59

I mean, it you're not wrong. It he's a big part of why this movie constantly feels unstable. Definitely just feels like it it's it's effective in that way for sure. But I think that this movie is also, and just watching this again for what feels like the first time in multiple decades, is just that once it just feels it's way stranger than I remembered it. Once I realized that this was the one with Matthew McConaughey, I started to remember what this one was, like I said, but then I saw Renee Zellweger and I was like, I was genuinely genuinely surprised because I totally forgot that she was in this one as well. And I think that all of this was coming back to me as I was watching this movie, and the unpredictability is I think just one of the movie's biggest surprises. When you really think about like that unstabless and the unpredictability and just how wild this movie is, and it's due in part to a lot of like what Matthew McConaughey brings to the table as Vilmer and different things like that. I think it just adds a lot to this movie. It's surprising. I think the setup of this movie and explaining how the family had like never been caught over 10 years and all this stuff, and it and it sets you all up, like we said, and then it just jumps you into this family. What I'm trying to figure out is how we got from Sawyer to Slaughter. Like, I think there was like there's some connection there in the franchise. Like Slaughter was like one of the intended surnames or something like that. I there's some kind of piece together lore that I'm missing, but I know it's there.

Kris 13:29

I'm gonna make it so easy for you, Sean. Well, they haven't been caught because they got new socials, they got new names. There's no paper trail, right? Like they are. I mean, this guy's tow truck fucking says Illuminati on it. There's a tie here that they have just been able to disappear off the grid. If you squint your eyes just right, the movie works.

Sean 13:52

It works, it works. And listen, like it's I don't know, it's this this whole family dynamic over the years. I mean, it's it's something to behold for sure. This family in particular, this part of the family, these group of characters that are part of this family, whatever we want to do to call this the family, they feel uh, I think more psychologically abusive instead of just like a murderous family. I think one thing that this film does differently when you compare it to other movies in the past is that the the killers spend more time, I think, emotionally tormenting people than simply killing them. Like it's a very different dynamic. There's humiliation, manipulation, screaming, there's a lot of just intimidation and bizarre attempts at control. And I think that is part of what creates a very uncomfortable atmosphere that feels different from even just other Texas Chainsaw mascers, but a lot of other slashers as well.

Kris 14:49

You know, the more you talk, Sean, the more I'm convinced I need to go back and look at the credits and find Rob Zombie's name somewhere.

Sean 14:56

Yeah, I mean, you know that this is right up Rob Zombie's alley. You know that that I mean, this is depth. I well, how many not many years after did we get House of a Thousand Corpses? So you know that this was fresh off of Rob Zombie's viewing list, I'm sure.

Kris 15:12

Yeah, you know, not know is my point. Just not know. And you're talking about what Renee Zellweger brings to the whole equation. And as I'm sitting here reflecting on this and just thinking about what this movie kind of pulls out of its ass at some points, this movie really is scrappy. It is scrappy, it is trying to, I think, punch above its weight class and maybe falling and stumbling a little bit, maybe sinking a few punches because it's a little bit drunk and a little bizarre.

Sean 15:40

Sure.

Kris 15:41

And that's where I think this movie grounds itself for me. It is not clean, it is not elegant. This should have been called Texas Chainsaw Massacre Prom Night. But you know what? It has personality, it has it where it counts, it has enough memorable moments, even and also even enough bizarre moments and even committed performances for me to feel sufficiently entertained. What I will say though is the movie, because of all that, can feel very uneven. So I recognize that I'm probably looking back on this with rose-colored lens because of just my own nostalgia, but to sit back and look at it objectively, there's comedy that's uneven. I think it undercuts the horror. I personally did not find the original Texas Chainsaw very scary at all, but this feels almost like a bastardization of that. So I think if you're a fan of the original one, then I guess it's gonna be like a hard pill for you to swallow.

Sean 16:41

Yeah, it's an interesting point. I mean, I I think of like watching the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I just think of like I I you have to be maybe a viewer that's saying, if I just happen to stumble upon a family like this, this would feel pretty horrific, I guess, in that sense. Maybe as a viewer, it doesn't feel as scary as watching some other scary movies, but put in the situation maybe doesn't feel too good. And you're right, this movie feels scrappy, it feels wild, it feels like it's it's trying to figure out maybe what it is. It feels like a nightmare instead of a real story here. I think sometimes the scenes don't always flow logically. Characters, I think, are very irrational at times. The tone is very it shifts abruptly. There's a lot of tone shifts in this movie, like you said, the comedy, the horror, whatever. The conversations feel disconnected from reality. I think there's a lot happening in this movie. But oddly enough, this works for probably some viewers because I think that some people probably are into this type of horror. Like they're probably into the kind of wild zany kind of like acid trip horror of like, what are you watching? Like this is just a wild time. But then I don't know. There, there's probably like some viewers, I you probably get split with like watching this story, and then when you get towards the end and you get this conspiracy angle, that's where I think this is gonna divide viewers, right? Like, I think you're either gonna be having a you're either having a good time or you're not with like how wild this story is. But wherever you decide, by the time you get to the end and you get to even another surprise in the film, that's where the true divide happens.

Kris 18:27

You know, the more I think about this, the more I recognize Binks probably fucking hate this movie.

Sean 18:33

Oh, Binx is hacking this movie 1,000%. I can already tell you, I can put it right on here in cement, it's totally fine.

Kris 18:40

Yeah, there's that aspect of it, and then the other side of this, I will say, despite its flaws, if you are a Matthew McConaughey fan, if you're a Renee Zellweger fan, you owe it to yourself to watch this movie because damn, if they're not both excellent in it.

Sean 18:58

You do have to watch these performances. If nothing else, you definitely definitely have to watch these performances for sure.

Kris 19:05

Well, it's gonna be up to you very shortly if you have to watch the whole movie based on what we had to say. But before we actually start scoring it, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

Sean 19:14

Yeah, I think it's interesting that this this Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the return, the next generation, whatever the fuck we're calling it, it actually has far less gore than many people would expect from a Texas Chainsaw movie. It has a lot less gore than you would probably expect. And I think that's gonna surprise a lot of viewers because you know the franchise has a reputation for some extreme violence, but this particular film leans much more into psychological chaos, screaming tension, this kind of just disturbing behavior and emotional abuse than the graphic bloodshed of it all. And so on a horror scale, I would probably have to give this film, you know, maybe a low gore score because the film really feels just it feels more brutal than what's actually shown on screen.

Kris 20:05

And what about the animal report?

Sean 20:07

It's not the worst offender, but we do see some rotting carcass, which is actually probably ironically the most gore that we get in this entire movie.

Kris 20:17

What a damn shame. We still have to go back to the other Texas Chainsaw movies and count exactly how many massacres of the chainsaws there were. But let's go ahead and make our way over to our ratings. The return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre from 1995. Was it a hack or a slash?

Sean 20:37

This was a wild ride. I think just diving deep into the grimy backwoods of you know pure horror insanity with Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the next generation, or you know, again, as some people know it, the return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And wow, this movie is ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. This is one of those movies that honestly should not work at all. The tone is all over the place, the story barely makes sense half the time. The ending feels like it escaped from this other dimension, and the entire movie plays out like a like this sweaty fever dream. You said sweaty, sweaty fever dream is what this movie can play out as in your mind. And somehow I kind of just had a fun time with it. I had a blast with it, to be honest with you. I was sitting on the couch watching this for the first time in decades. I had myself a drink, I had some snacks, I'm watching, I'm like, okay, this is kind of a wild ride, and I'm kind of into it. And this movie is loud, it's confusing, it's strange, it's uncomfortable, it's completely wild in a way that I feel like honestly feels impossible to look away from. And the biggest reason that this thing works at all is the performances that we get. Matthew McConaughey is absolutely unhinged in this movie. This isn't charming rom-com Matthew. Matthew McConaughey. This is Matthew McConaughey operating at maximum chaotic energy. He screams, he laughs, he growls, he threatens people, he loses his mind repeatedly and somehow delivers one of the most entertaining performances in the entire franchise, like you're saying, Kris. And Renee Zellwigger gives a performance that was way better than this movie probably deserves. But look, this movie is messy. It's really messy. The tone bounces between that horror, between the comedy, the psychological breakdowns, this surreal nonsense, it's constant. But some of the story decisions, they're baffling, and the ending is kind of the kind of thing that'll either make you laugh or scratch your head, or maybe even both. I don't know. But at the end of the day, if you're into those grimy southern backwoods, backroads horror and weird cult classic energy, and I don't know. I think honestly, this is probably one that is still worth watching. So for me, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the Next Generation, it barely gets a slash. It gets a slash because it was just such a fun watch because the performances are so good. In every other sense, this movie should be a hack, but it's getting a slash tonight because I had such a fun time with it. Because I don't know, this movie may be held together with duct tape, chainsaw fumes, pure insanity, but against all odds, I think it still manages to carve out a good time. And I think, unlike most of its victims, this sequel just barely escapes that hack territory by the skin of its face, but it's such a fun time. You gotta watch the performances. I don't know. It's a slash.

Kris 23:34

Wow. I am actually a little shocked. Not that I didn't think you could have a fun time with this, but rather because I thought surely there's no way the return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Next Generation would ever have a universal slash on this show.

Sean 23:52

We could have Banks Banks' non non whatever hack, non-official hack. We can just throw that in here.

Kris 23:59

Yeah, I mean, well, she would have had to put it on the record officially. All it had to take was for there to be two of us for the odds to be in this movie's favor. Here's the thing though despite the messiness that you were alluding to, I have so much affection for this movie. I think it really does work as an entertaining and memorable horror experience. Yes, it rides the coattails of Matthew McConaughey. It rides the coattails of Renee Zellwegger. This might be one of the worst leather faces you're gonna see in the entire franchise. But part of that love that I have for this movie is personal, right? Seeing it while living in East Texas in the 90s gives this a particular texture for me, and that memory still colors the way I watch it. And digging past that nostalgia, there are genuine things here that actually work well. We mentioned the McConaughey commitment. It's so fucking unsettling because he becomes one of the movie's biggest assets. And you mentioned it might be one of the best performances in the franchise. Sean, I think this is one of the best performances in that man's career. This man is genuinely unsettling. I don't care for him at all. And Renee Zellweiger gives the movie a really great, strong survival horror energy, especially once the chase scenes really kick in. Those are actually really delightful treats. It's not the most polished Texas Chainsaw movie for sure. It's definitely not the most disciplined, but it does have personality. It has moments I still remember, and it has a weird, mean, absurd confidence that makes it really hard to dismiss. And I would take 10 McConaugheys before I take one Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 with the fucking chili competition or with the lightsaber battle of the chainsaws. For me, this movie is a slash, it's flawed, it's chaotic. Yes, okay, sure. It's not for everyone, that's fine, but it is fun and it's absolutely worth talking about and revisiting. And with that, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Next Generation, the return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, hazard a universal slash. So with our scores locked in, we're gonna step away for just a moment and we're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll see you in the spoiler zone soon.

Sean 26:30

This episode of Hacker Slash is brought to you by Vilmer's Toe and Coe. If it exists, we'll hitch it, flat tires, dead batteries, witnesses? Don't worry, Wilmer's Toe and Toe has you covered with fast roadside assistance and selective memory removal services across the back roads of Texas. At Vilmer's, they don't just tow cars, they tow life problems. Whether you'll sedan ended up wrapped up around a tree buried in a cornfield or mysteriously abandoned after prom night, their highly trained crew will arrive faster than a chainsaw through a screen door. Their fleet includes industrial gray tow rigs, reinforced trunk space, and enough duct tape to hold together an entire dysfunctional family reunion. And unlike other towing companies, Vilmer's guarantees we leave no tire tracks and occasionally no dental records. Need discretion? Ask about their next generation cleanup package featuring vehicle recovery, bloodstained detailing, remote rural relocation services, and complimentary insurance alibi consultation. Plus, every toe comes with a free cassette tape of aggressive screaming and someone in the background yelling, alright, alright, alright, for absolutely no reason. Customers are raving my car vanished overnight. The authorities still haven't found my husband. Five stars, terrifying hospitality. And for a limited time, use promo code LEG4LAST for 15% off your first emergency extraction, Vilma's Toe and Co. Because sometimes the family business needs a jump start. Let's break this sucker down. Texas Chainsaw Massacre The Next Generation has a surprisingly small body count compared to how chaotic and intense the movie actually feels. The kills are less about elaborate gore set pieces and more about sudden brutality, psychological torment, and just pure panic energy. We get eight total kills in this film. Some are debatable, I would say. They're not confirmed one way or the other, but we're left to believe that hopefully or maybe they're dead because we want to see this kill count rise. But this is just one of those where we just don't see. I actually, if if you really think about it, we don't really see a whole lot of kills on screen at all, but we do see things happening and then get cut away. The movie starts with Ronnie. We may not know that his name was Ronnie, but I did do some digging and I did find out that the nameless dude in the beginning, Ronnie, who got his neck snapped by Vilmer while in you know incapacitated in that car accident was passed out. The whole ridiculous way that that happened was so wild. That's what really kicks things off, right? Because you're really you're watching this movie, it starts off, okay, I can get into this. It's got the like it's 95. You know, it's giving 80s energy with this prom night setup. It's giving 80s horror slasher energy, and we're having fun, we're in the car, and then all of a sudden the car accident happens, of course, on the detour. Of course, in the dirt road. We went from paved roads to dirt roads in the backwoods of Texas. They hit this kid, the kid passes out, flash forward, boom, it's some weird shit's happening. The tow guy snaps his neck. Now we know that this movie is going into absurdity.

Kris 30:31

You know, why would it happen anywhere else? And in fact, when you left the prom and found your boyfriend making out with someone else and then wanted to gaslight you, why wouldn't you get in the car and drive to fucking nowhere? They had no ambition, they had no aim. What sense of direction did she have? Where was her plan to go? They were just driving off into the sunset, and by the sunset I mean the sunset of their fucking life.

Sean 30:59

I was gonna wait a little bit to bring that up, but since you brought up the fact that we had this fucking douchebag berry that literally oh my god, the character was so wild. It's one I mean, okay, it's one thing to be caught cheating, right? It's one thing to be caught cheating, it's another to completely try to just gaslight the fuck out of your out of your girlfriend and say like you were just talking when she clearly saw you kissing this girl, and then try to say, like, oh well, you know, like guys just need to get it. You know what I mean? Like it's most ridiculous. This guy was such a piece of shit. The biggest piece of shit.

Kris 31:38

He then says that kissing isn't even a big deal. It's just this guy is a massive son of a bitch, which is why I loved when he gets his come up and slater.

Sean 31:48

Yeah, it's just ridiculous. Not doing anything, just talking, super possessive, no bueno.

Kris 31:55

No, but the guy who was not a total piece of shit, Sean.

Sean 31:59

I know, Sean. Give it up for the Seans out there. Always good to see a fellow Sean in a horror movie, always sad to see a Sean die in a horror movie, but this Sean met his untimely demise, I think ran over 11 times by my count by Vilmer, back and forth and back and forth. I mean, if it wasn't like the moment that he snapped Ronnie's neck, it was the moment that he literally chased Sean down in his truck and just ran him over boom, boom, boom, boom. And the way that he was reacting to everything and the way that it really introduced this idea that okay, this is some fucked up back road shit going on right here.

Kris 32:38

100%. And I was so bummed for Sean. Sean's like a good dude. Sean, I love the moment when he's totally snitching on Barry and talking about Barry's bullshit and all the girls he used to brag about feeling up and all the lines he used to use on them. We needed more Sean in this movie, however, comma. When we later see Sean's body in the back of the wrecker, I could not believe for a second that he looked as intact as he did after getting run over that many times.

Sean 33:10

I mean, okay, that was a surprising thing for sure. That was definitely, and this is the thing with this movie, right? With the gore level and everything in this movie, this is what I'm talking about. Is the fact that if you get ran over 11 times, 11 times, at least 11 times, you're gonna tell me that when you show me the body afterwards, all he has is some dirt on his face and a messed up hairdo.

Kris 33:36

He ran into my knife. He ran into my knife 10 times.

Sean 33:40

Maybe, yeah, maybe he just didn't hit the face. I don't know. Unfortunate for Sean, hate to see him go. One of the things this movie did not do is make us wait too long for getting Barry out of the way because we hated Barry from the very beginning. He was the douchey boyfriend, and he ended up I mean, the whole progression of of how he died was great. I mean, the guy is like searching through the house, trying to find, trying to find Heather, right? And walking through the house, all the things, right? The moment that he like walks into the bathroom and decides to take a piss, like literally just decides this is the right time. I'm gonna stop to take a piss right here. We're seeing the we're seeing the the skinned the skin of somebody hanging on the back of the door like a towel. That's one thing. Pretty cool. I mean to give it up for that. I loved that piece. But and then he sees the dead body, and then he decomposing body in the tub, and then he walks out and gets whacked in the head with uh what looked like a sledgehammer by Leatherface. That, you know, Barry went, and that was good. He made some poor decisions. I wish we could have seen a little bit more of his death.

Kris 34:51

Yeah, I could I could have taken some more agony from Barry, quite frankly, but I did appreciate that between Heather getting snatched and then Barry getting his comeuppance, it did feel like a nice bit of rhyming with the original movie.

Sean 35:09

I'm with you, I'm with you for sure. I think where we get into the debatable section of this movie is we do get to see at one point Walter, Walter Edward Slaughter is his official name, getting bashed on the head by Vilmer at the dinner table with a hammer of some kind, but we don't get like a confirm that he's dead. It's just so it's kind of like, do we think he died? I'm counting it because we never see him again in the film. So I'm gonna go ahead and said maybe.

Kris 35:41

You know, Sean, who's to say?

Sean 35:44

I'm trying to beef up this kill count here.

Kris 35:46

You're more generous than the movie, is this movie literally has massacre in the name, and half of these people are questionable at best.

Sean 35:54

I'm trying to do it justice. I'm trying to help this movie out a little bit for sure. So that's the first debatable kill, I guess, that you would say that we get. And then shortly after that, we get Heather's Unfortunate Death. She went through a lot in this movie. You know, she got chased around, eventually she got shoved in an ice chest for a while, then she got taken out of the ice chest, and then she got hung on a meat hook for a little bit, then she hung there for she hung out, some would say, for a while in the movie. We didn't really see for very much. And then she got beat up a little bit and dragged around all over the house until finally her neck being crushed by Vilmer.

Kris 36:32

Yeah, she again did not deserve it. Although, had it not been for her, none of them would have been in this situation. Ma'am, again, I don't know why you chose to go this direction. However, when she is out in the road and she's like, please don't hit me, and then this other woman just like starts like pathetically beating her with a stick, like very softly. And she's like, Okay, well, don't you go crawling off now? Like these little bits of comedy, I think a lot of Heather's moments are some of the funniest moments in the movie.

Sean 37:06

I I'm with you for sure. There was a lot of comedy there, but yeah, and then after that, it's just we don't get a whole lot of anything happening until we get to the end, and we get Mr. and Mrs. Spottish. These two are in the van or in their RV and they pick up Jenny and they're driving along, and then Vilmer comes with Leatherface in the truck and runs the RV off, and they flip the RV, and that's the last that we see of this couple. So that another that's another double debatable death sequence. Like we don't see them. We see Jenny climbing out of the truck, but not Mr. or Mrs. Spottish. So interesting.

Kris 37:46

Yeah. I mean, hey, not the first time we've seen an RV tip over in a horror movie. Looking at you Friday the 13th.

Sean 37:54

Yeah, it's there. And I just, you know, I have a hard time believing unless they I mean they weren't strapped in, so maybe they flung around and snapped a neck or something like that. But you know, that's all we get to go off of. So again, trying to do the movie justice, add another two to the kill count. We're here for it. But the the ending kill of this movie, let me tell you, I don't know if this was the original intention of how this movie was gonna end, but let me tell you, Vilmer getting chased down by a fucking airplane of some random guy like just happened to be flying down the field and sees Jenny running from these two and just happens to perfectly swoop down and only knock out Vilmer and not Jenny at all when she was like feet from him. Is uh that is a pilot, my friends. Get this guy in the military because he needs to be dogfighting people.

Kris 38:44

I don't know. Sounds like it was an inside job.

Sean 38:46

It's something. I hear the conspiracies, right? Bring the conspiracies in.

Kris 38:50

It was the Illuminati and the lizard people.

Sean 38:53

Oh my gosh, but what a way, you know. I mean, that was the end of Vilmer there, just just hit by an airplane. Happens every day.

Kris 39:01

You yeah, sure. It sure does happen every day. Sean, get the fuck out of here. This man expired in a way that I think was as theatric as his performance, and I at least applaud that. Did you see it coming? Did you see Death by Propeller?

Sean 39:18

No, I mean I saw I saw it coming once it was happening. Like I didn't expect to ever see that.

Kris 39:24

Yeah, but you have Matthew, all right, all right, all right, McConaughey in a horror movie acting the way he does. I mean, listen, you gotta go out with flair and style, I think.

Sean 39:36

Yeah, I'm with you. I know I didn't see it coming at all. It was wild. In fact, when it did, when it was happening, I thought everyone was gonna get taken out by this propeller. I thought Leatherface was gonna go, I thought Vilmer was gonna go, and maybe even Jenny by some unfortunate circumstances. But what are you gonna do?

Kris 39:55

You know, there isn't much to do, except I think appreciate this movie for all that it does have going on in a really good way. I mentioned before that this movie is all over the place in terms of its vibe, its energy. The tone is messy, but the messiness is part of the charm. I want to highlight something that I think is just a spectacular moment in this movie. And it's honestly because of how it's filmed. I'm also thinking about a 1989 film, Halloween 5, when we get Jamie and her friend being chased down in a car by Michael Myers. They're running through the field, and Michael is just about to mow these fucking kids down. I think back to the chase scene in this film with Jenny running for her life, constant cut between the two, from inside the car's perspective to then looking at him, to then outside with her. That entire scene for me shows just how fucking great this movie looked. A to be filmed on location and for this to be like a real Texas production, but then also B to cut this together in a way that I feel just as nervous about this as I think they want me to feel based on the circumstance that she's in. Sometimes you do these chase scenes and it's like, okay, all right, please be done with it. But we get him kind of backing her into a corner in a field, only for a leatherface to come out right after. Absolutely incredibly well shot.

Sean 41:32

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think there was some good, there's definitely a lot of good qualities in this movie. I think that was a good one. I think overall the atmosphere that this movie builds, the set design, I think you have to also acknowledge the film feels sweaty, dirty, loud, claustrophobic. It feels unstable because of the set design and the atmosphere that this movie builds. And I think even when the scenes barely make narrative sense, the movie constantly creates this feeling that something is just deeply wrong here, and that oppressive backroads nightmare energy is the movie's strongest technical achievement. I think it definitely just feels like you're just in this backwoods territory, which oddly enough is not far from wherever this town was that they were having proms. So it's not that it's that far, but you take one wrong turn, you know, and and here you are. And yeah, there's just a lot that I think happens in this movie, and I think it's a mixture of the the grimy lighting. There is some chaotic sound design in this movie, there's some uncomfortable close-ups and things like that, but the the choice to be in the rural Texas locations, to actually be on set in a rural Texas location, it just hap it just happened to add a lot of value to the movie and the way this feels, including the house and everything in it.

Kris 42:56

Yeah, and I think it's because a lot of this really is simple but effective. Simple but effective. Actually, I'm gonna walk that back because nothing in that house was simple. That was just gross and messy and a hoarder's dream. I was like the bone thrones, like the little bird cages made out of chicken bones. But for as much as we get in this movie that actually looks really, really good, I think one of the other things that makes it actually stand out is what Renee Zellweiger brings to Jenny in those chasings. Because holy shit, it's not just running from a car, it's not just running from a chainsaw. She was jumping off of roofs, she was landing on wires, she was constantly moving, she was kinetic energy, per personified. And it's so funny to me thinking about okay, she's positioned to be almost like this nerdy girl with glasses, and then you know, Heather makes a comment about her gym body after like being in gym classes. And you see her just like working it the entire time.

Sean 44:03

I mean, a hundred percent. She is a badass in this movie. She's nimble as fuck. She's like a fucking acrobat. She literally, to your point, hops from an antenna on the roof. She's scaling the roof, one, which looks like not an easily scalable roof, like maybe a metal roof, I don't know, with some little hitches to for your foot here and there. But she's going up and down this roof. She's climbing this giant antenna that she leaps from and lands on a fucking telephone wire of some kind and is literally just crawling on that thing. Like she just like has done this a million times.

Kris 44:41

If this were hereditary, that wire would have decapitated her.

Sean 44:45

Oof. That would be unfortunate for sure. I'm actually shocked that she isn't as injured as she should be, like falling from the the top story onto the ground like that. I mean, most people do break a bone when that happens. Most. Depends how high up it is, I guess.

Kris 45:03

Yeah, for sure.

Sean 45:04

But I will say there are a handful of really key moments in this film. I will say the best scene for me in this movie, my favorite moment in this movie, is it is between these two characters. It is between Renee Zellwigger, Jenny, and Vilmer, Matthew McConaughey, and she has the shotgun. And she's literally pointing it at them. She's trying to get, you know, she's trying to get Heather to get up and go, right? And there's this, there's this moment where you know Vilmer's going back and forth. There's a lot of dialogue happening. Everyone's talking. She's going off of her whole like uh episode of how she's like, well, you know, maybe there is load, maybe it is loaded, maybe there's not, maybe it's not loaded. Do I have the I'm gonna blow your head off kind of thing? There's this standoff, and there's the moment where she points it right at Vilmer's face, and he's ready for it. She pulls the trigger, it doesn't go off. He snags the shotgun, and the other, the other the second time it shot it shoots the other shotgun shell off. It was loaded after all. It just was the chance of like that first one didn't go off. And his performance in that moment is probably one of the greatest performances in the entire movie. I mean, the whole scene was great, even between Renee Zellwigger and him. But then when it shifts to him after he takes the shotgun and shoots it off, and there's that energy that he just like escaped death or whatever, and he's just screaming and he's doing this whole thing and he's like slapping himself in the face. There's oh my god, wild, absolutely wild.

Kris 46:51

Yeah, I mean, it really does say a lot about his own physicality and the line delivery that he brings to it. It amplifies just how unpredictable he feels as a human being. And even then, like you're talking about this dynamic with her as Jenny, she is so much more than a passive victim. She is very much in the driver's seat of her own survival, and I appreciate that about her because she's honestly so competent in a way that it actually feels a little funny, but it feels a little campy, just how competent and and capable she actually is. I think she makes it all a lot more dynamic. Like, I'm even thinking about the moment that she tells Leatherface to sit the fuck down. Yeah, absolutely incredible.

Sean 47:39

Yeah, she's like, You sit the fuck down. Uh, that's great. It's absolutely great.

Kris 47:44

Uh yeah, yeah. I think between the two of them, they're such a dynamic, like one-two punch in this movie, and even the other characters that you get, uh auxiliary career characters and ancillary at best, but they're still funny at least. Like Barry, real son of a bitch, didn't care for him. He's a little funny. Heather, very funny. The family, super gross, but effective. Probably I can't. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna people are gonna be so upset with me when I say this is probably my preferred family in the franchise.

Sean 48:19

Yeah, it's a wild family for sure. It's a wild family. Here's the one thing that got me. Were you expecting were you expecting the grandpa to actually come back to life? Like that were you, I'm I'm thinking at this dinner table scene, this dude is for sure dead. He's for sure dead, just like the other bodies that we see off to the left, right? Whatever family that was. And this dude just like gets up randomly. There's moments where they linger on him, and you're like, okay, is he gonna move? But he doesn't. So you're like, oh yeah, he's dead. And then moments later, this fucking guy gets up and takes his knife and walks off.

Kris 48:56

So that's the bit for me. I could not stand the crusty, dusty, basically dead man that was the grandfather in the original film. So I never expected him to not be alive, but when he actually physically stood up and looked super capable with a shaky hand, I was like, okay, yeah. Now that's where I feel like this movie is in on the joke.

Sean 49:19

Yeah. This movie is kind of self-aware, if you really think about it.

Kris 49:25

I think it's pretty self-aware, actually. It it knows that there's some things in this movie that feel a little bit more serious, like nothing about Matthew McConaughey feels like a joke. Yeah, but the rest of it is just ridiculous set dressing to really play it up.

Sean 49:42

Yeah. I mean, the more you think about it, I think this movie just got a bad rap. You just gotta go watch this movie. You gotta watch it and have fun. There's a lot, there's a lot of good in this movie for sure.

Kris 49:54

There really is. I mean, uh okay, so I talked about the stick-hitting scene, grandpa standing up, Jenny telling Leatherface to sit down. Those are even just those three moments are fucking comedic goal to me. And the fact that they're all woven into this movie that still manages to be a little creepy in some parts. I'm like, damn, this this movie was this movie was really on to something.

Sean 50:18

It really, really was. It's a wild time, and we we I don't know how much more we can really break into what these characters brought. I will say that that, you know, other than Matthew McConaughey being completely unhinged as Vilmer in this movie, every second he's on screen feels like this movie is seconds away from completely derailing. And honestly, I think it's just really part of the fun of the movie. But I was actually like I I watched this movie and and I was I was just looking up like you know, just some random things about this movie, ended up stumbling upon like an interview with Matthew McConaughey, who was actually sharing how he got this role. Um, and he's sharing this story of uh he so he had just he had actually just filmed Dazed and Confused. So he had just wrapped filming that. He had just gone back to school and finished school, and he was literally packing up all his shit and like about to move to Hollywood to try to like get some work. Like he was fin he did dazed and confused, he got in his he got his shit packed up, finished school, and he was moving out to Hollywood to try to pursue his pursue his career when he got offered to be an extra in this movie. He was never gonna be Vilmer. He was offered an at like this part where he is driving a motorcycle in the beginning of the movie, where Jenny sees him in the movie and he rides up in his motorcycle, they like see each other, and then he rides off and no words, nothing. And then at the end of the movie, when she escapes this like almost being killed sequence, that like flashes back to her like going back to school or something like that, and he drives up in his motorcycle and she gets on, and then they drive off, still no words, like this really stupid, like Romeo and Juliet kind of thing.

Kris 52:05

Oh god, they changed that.

Sean 52:07

Yeah, and so like that was what he got hired on to do. And as he was like coming in to like say that he'll do the gig, they asked him if he knew anybody that could play this lead role of Vilmer. And he was like, Well, I gave him a couple of names and then he walked off. And as he was like getting in his car to go, he thought to himself, like, wait a second, why didn't I try out for this role? So he goes back in and he asks if he can try out for the role. They say why not? They didn't have like a girl actor or whatever to like play the the to play some kind of like counterpart role as he tries out, so it was like somebody that just like is randomly there, like one of the one of the TAs or something like that. And he says that he like just picked up like this like spoon, this like random like silver spoon that was like standing around in the sitting around in the room, and he just like goes bonkers, like he like pins the girl to the wall, the spoon, pretending it's like a fucking weapon, and just goes insane until she starts crying, and then he like breaks, and he is like and and the dude that was trying him out was like that was pretty good. And the girl was like, Yeah, that was fucking good. I was scared, and he got the and he got the lead role for Vilmer. So unhinged from day one.

Kris 53:22

Okay, that is so much better than any of Jared Leto's bullshit.

Sean 53:27

Uh, I thought it was interesting. I was like, good for you. I mean, good for you to like go and just like try to like because you know, fuck that. Why can't I go for the role? You know what I mean?

Kris 53:36

Yeah, I would feel so offended if I'm Matthew McConaughey, I'm in daisy confuse, I'm hot as fuck, and then someone says, Yeah, do you know a guy? And yeah, bitch, I know me. I know me. I'm good.

Sean 53:47

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting for sure. And you know, Renee Zellwigger is Jenny. We've already talked a lot and hyped her up a lot, just a badass final girl in this movie. She actually sells the fear and the panic, which I think helps ground the movie that otherwise feels like this pure nonsense spiraling into chaos. And so, like, she brings this level of like believability to the movie where she is kind of like grounded, she is this badass. We see her evolution as a character from like the beginning where she's kind of unsure of herself. She's like, you know, her friends are kind of making fun of her to the point where she is the last one standing, and she does kind of get this badass vibe to her. She's probably one of my favorite final girls for sure. She just does such a good job in this movie. So I not there's not enough words to say that. I think she did a great job.

Kris 54:39

Yeah, you know, I'm trying to even think back on when we did a final girl ranking on YouTube back in the day. Maybe we need to do that and bring it back. Maybe we need to do like a nice video, just like bringing back some like the best final girls and try to get back down to it. I can't remember if she was even part of the selection or if she was where she placed. I'm gonna have to go back in my memory. For as phenomenal as both of them are, I think probably the worst part of this movie is that there's such a strong fall-off from them to the rest of the cast. And again, the characters are just there, like they're designed to be obnoxious, they're designed to be disposable, so it's fine. I don't think it like ruins the movie for me. But I think if you go into this with someone who has never seen this before now, you're gonna see, damn, those two really stand out. What the fuck are the rest of these people doing?

Sean 55:37

To an extent, yes, for sure. And listen, don't go into this one as your first. I mean, this was your first Texas Chainsaw Mascara. Is that what you said?

Kris 55:45

I saw the original one, but the first time I saw this one, I was very young and I lived in Texas. So it was the original, then next generation, and then I random shit throughout the years. I still haven't seen the whole franchise.

Sean 55:58

Right, right. Well, I mean, so the thing is is like, don't go into this as your first entry into Texas Chainsaw Massacre as a franchise, only because I think the worst part of this movie is literally the fact that we don't see Leatherface in the spotlight really at all. This is like one that really puts Leatherface in the backseat of the movie. It almost makes him feel like an afterthought in this movie. And I don't know if that was intentional. I don't know if it's because of the performances that we get from Matthew McConaughey and Renee Zellwigger that it just like those two that the dynamic of those two just take away from anything that that Leatherface was doing in this movie. But for me, I think of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I think of Leatherface, and I think of Leatherface killing people, you know, whether we get enough chainsaw or not, that is always the question in these movies because you know, odds are we aren't getting enough chainsaw action in the chainsaw massacre, as it were, but we at least get Leatherface killing people, and in this one, it's not really Leatherface that's doing a lot of the heavy lifting, and he's not really in the spotlight. For me, that's the worst part.

Kris 57:09

I'm gonna say something that might seem a little controversial. Okay. I'd dare say he didn't do a lot of the heavy lifting in the first one either. I mean, okay. I'd also say he wasn't exactly the center of attention in the second and third one either. I'd actually dare say that aside from the 2003 version, Sean, and maybe the 2022 Netflix version, he's rarely ever in the spotlight as the shining star. He's the main character, he's the horror icon. But when you look at it, I kind of feel like it's family members pull focus.

Sean 57:48

Yeah, they do. It is a lot of the whole family as a vibe for sure. And maybe that's just like what I always want out of all these movies. Maybe I do just want more leatherface. Do we all just want more leatherface going on a rampage with this chainsaw? I don't know.

Kris 58:06

Nah, I'm good. Your boy doesn't even know how to rampage. It wasn't until the 2003 or the 2022 on Netflix where I thought, man, that's some good rampaging.

Sean 58:14

But that's what I'm saying. I mean, is that is that they brought these movies to the table and was like, this is what we need and it worked? And is that what we needed in other films to make it work even more? I don't know.

Kris 58:26

So what I'm hearing is it's what we need, not from a place of we're craving it because we've seen it and we want it, but from a place of we are never satisfied and our thirst for blood is never quenched.

Sean 58:38

Yeah, I think it's just the fact that Leatherface became the horror icon in this franchise when he isn't really the spotlight of the franchise, to me.

Kris 58:46

He's kind of just a sidekick in his own franchise, and that's kind of fucked up.

Sean 58:50

It's kind of weird. It's kind of weird.

Kris 58:53

Okay, so we're gonna have to do this. Ranking Final Girls, sure. Ranking Leatherface, yes, we have to get to that. But we have to conclude our coverage on the rest of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre franchise. Holy shit, there's so much left in this franchise. But what I will say is I can't wait to watch this again, which is not something I ever expected to really say about any Texas Chainsaw Massacre, aside from maybe the 2003 version, because this is so fucking weird, and now I feel like I have a nice little hidden gem of a weird movie because I have completely forgotten about the fact that we have these two A-listers almost, like like iconic actors in their generation. We had them in a horror movie together. I know so many people who love these people and have never fucking seen this movie.

Sean 59:45

Yeah, for sure. I think I don't know. I think for me, this one is one of the I'm this is definitely one worth re-watching. This is definitely one where you want to put it on again. This is one that I think could be a good party watch. I think this is a good one to revisit for a number of reasons. I I do think for me, I kind of it kind of makes me want to just like binge the franchise just for fun. I haven't revisited the whole franchise in a while, so to kind of get up to speed. I've watched the original a bunch of times. I own the original, and so maybe I I don't know. I I feel like anytime you binge a franchise, you have to start with the original no matter what. So I'd have to do that. But yeah, it's been a while since I've seen two. It's been a while since I've seen this one. And truth be told, it's been a while since I've seen the 2003, so I think it's worth a whole binge.

Kris 1:00:37

Sounds like I just gotta come up there with you, and we gotta make a day of it.

Sean 1:00:40

Ooh, a Texas chainsaw massacre party. We can make chili. I'm down. Nice Texas toast. I love it. We gotta make it happen.

Kris 1:00:50

Hell yeah, we do, but for now, that brings our final score and our takeaway for the return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre to a Universal Slash. Now, whether you see it as a franchise misfire, a buried oddity, or a strange little artifact of regional horror colliding with Hollywood machinery, it does give us plenty to chew on before the credits roll.

Sean 1:01:13

And if you want to find out how you can get a seat at our dinner table and go further than this episode, consider supporting the show and visit patreon.com slash hackerslash because honestly, this is where you can enjoy even more of the show. You can enjoy bonus content, early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and of course, live shows.

Kris 1:01:35

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, you get to run in with the wrong crowd, wind up in a reformatory, no respect, no discipline? That's the problem. Family values have gone straight to hell.

Sean 1:01:47

I suppose we can forget about having a nice, quiet evening.