Why Another Golf Podcast?

In our first episode, we answer a simple question: Why another golf podcast?

We discuss why we started The Performance Room, the conversations we think are missing in golf, and what listeners can expect. It's an informal chat about coaching, performance, practice, and the ideas that have shaped our thinking—setting the scene for the discussions to come.

For more information, please contact Stuart Morgan at Stuart@iceberg-golf.com for Clinics, 1-1 coaching, seminars or any other coaching request for Stuart & Terry.

We look forward to connecting.

Instagram: @stuartmorgangolf @Iceberggolf @terryrowles

Email: stuart@iceberg-golf.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the performance room. Every episode is all right. Obviously, we've we've known each other for a long time. I think when we sit here, there's like first like discussion of what we're doing is like why are we doing this? Like, why another kind of golf podcast? I think we kind of like feel from that just the left the one person that's gonna listen to this to start with understand like where uh you know where we're coming from.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, I think uh well, I mean we've both uh there's an insurance uh commercial over here that says uh we've seen a thing or two uh you know with our combined experiences. I mean we've known each other probably for uh close to 30 years. And so you combine those two and then combine all the people that we know and the the ones that they know that we've learned from, uh, and you start to get a really big uh you know, kind of spider's web of unique experiences. So I think that's probably the way to look at it is you know, we're not here to um to say we're right and everyone else is wrong. It's more a case of I think we both have a mindset that um, you know, we'd like best practices and things that work and things that we've seen, uh, different ways to describe the same things that we've accumulated. So I think there's a lot of uh interesting discussions to have. Uh, you know, very much uh separate the weak from the chaff, the signal from the noise in our version.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, and like like for me, it's very much about like obviously we me and you have like had like different conversations and we've also been on the other end of podcasts, right? So we've also been like, you know, people have interviewed us and and asked us about our so-called expert opinion on things, and I think that for me anyway, that's that's great, and I love that, but I never truly felt like you're getting like your side of things kind of like really over to the people, you know. There's always kind of like certain like restrictions on things and and whatnot, and I feel that not just us, but potentially the guests that we're gonna bring on, like we're just gonna yeah, like you said, like we're not trying to tell anybody that they're wrong, but I think we're trying to challenge people's thinking in in some ways, and yeah, just you know, riff and see what we've kind of got to offer, to be honest. I think it makes us stronger in our kind of own views as well by putting stuff out. So I think that's kind of a positive.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah, I think we both have a disease, you know, sort of uh uh obsessive, kind of compulsive determination to to do a better job on a daily basis. And then, you know, what I think is interesting is we started in the same place and we've both gone on different routes and mostly end up in a similar place, even though the you know the maze you know corridor that we took was a little bit different. Ultimately you come back to you know, sort of a version of principles.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

But I kind of like that as well though, because I think there's an element of we kind of complement in a lot of ways, you know. It's like I'd go more down like the you know the practice and how people are kind of organizing themselves and whatnot, and you know, you've kind of elaborated on a lot of you know, not just like um I would say swing mechanics, but how do people best get the most out of what they have, right? And correct me if I'm wrong there, but I think there's a there's a huge level of like connection there of how we can connect those two worlds and start to again get people kind of understanding that there is more to this than just telling somebody how their right arm is kind of folding on the back to them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Well, if it is, then how do they learn it and how does it appear on the you know 18th hole of a tournament?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I mean, there's a different level. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

You know, ultimately we've both worked as some really good players and they can do anything they want on a Tuesday, but you know, how does that appear on uh you know July the 20th on Sunday or you know, something like this?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

And I think that also leads into like where do we see like the conversations going within this um within this like performance room podcast? Because for me, I still have this niggling thing of like why are people not asking better questions about what transfers and what doesn't transfer? And I, you know, I keep coming back to that all the time, and that's kind of in my domain of where you know practice and how much what they're doing during practice, and that's the you know, we want to try and dive a little bit kind of deeper into that because as you know, as we talk about like elite players, that should be the only metric we're kind of looking at, really. It should it should bore boil down to that, but I'm but I'm still not sure we're kind of there.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Well, I think uh you know, both of us have gone outside of um golf to try and get more information and better experiences. And you know, the field that you've dived into in it's quite interesting if you look at biomechanists or you know, Mark Brody, the statistics guy, or you know, it almost requires like a a real expert who additionally has a great interest in golf, and then they kind of do it for fun within golf. All the biomechanists that are within golf are you know they've they've done it because of the love of the game sort of thing. It's not really brought um, you know, the biggest and best, it's more the people that are most disrespectful for. But you know, I feel like somebody who's like a real expert in transfer and practice hasn't really come into golf and it's taken you to you know to truly go through a tremendous amount of literature, and you know, it's been very nice for the last 10 minutes to be but you know, ultimately you've become the great bullshit detector in the game.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

But it but also that also asks like again things that we're gonna kind of talk like talk about of like why does culture take so long to kind of change, you know, and you know, you can you can provide all the evidence you want and you can show people that you know there is like okay, this does this and this does this and this produces these results, but it still takes you know a whole army to probably change a culture down the road, and that's I always feel that's a a real kind of open but kind of challenging subject on its own.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, I recently did a a presentation on uh the future of AI and golf, and you know, I sat to sit sit and think about it and know that I was gonna you know compete with some of the culture in the room and you know have somebody say, Well, you know, clearly I've done this for a long time and there's no machine that can beat me. But ultimately, you know, I sat and said, okay, what are the strengths and weaknesses of humans? What are the strengths and weaknesses? Kind of a SWOT analysis of humans, SWOT analysis of technology. And you know, so so when you get into the things like um, you know, culture, we're talking about human biases, which are very predictable in every field, you know, in finance or in medicine or uh, you know, golf. But any human activity, uh, you know, we have biases. And um, you know, if you look back at there's Nobel Prize prize-winning work of you know Kahneman and and Thaler, who we can talk to at some point, and you know, we can sort of start to see how ideas are uh propelled forward or sustained or whatever. Um, and they're and they're you know, with engulf there's so many, and uh you know, people are trying to do their best despite the fact that there's clear and obvious bias.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

And uh I think that's what we're challenged by in like social media as well, isn't it? Like we're always thinking of what one one thing and just like go into town on it, and everything they post is around their you know, their confirmation bias ultimately. And if they have a big enough following or a big enough voice, you know, it leads people down these roads of like, yeah, well, is is this right for me in in this sense, or is it just the influence? And that kind of ties into you know some of the work I've done in my PhD as well, and looking at Ali Crumb's work at Stanford around the beliefs of individuals, because the beliefs are being driven heavily by players today that are linked from social media and and people that are that are influencing them. So I think these are kind of the elaborations of like things that we're gonna dive a little bit more kind of deeper into and not just like again just be another podcast just looking at the the surface element of um yeah, of not just golf coaching, but just general human interaction with an environment.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Performance in humans from some levels. Uh, you know, we're sitting here on uh slightly tired from watching uh a Great England performance last night, and one of the things that uh someone said before the game was that you know Jude Bellingham, the great lion hero of the game, uh is not that popular, you know, because someone says you know he's got a uh a very American culture to sports performance, right? As in he wants to you know raise the bar and do his best. And then just talking about culture, you even have you know cultural difference between countries and performance within the you know kind of the social ecosystem. And um, you know, he kind of proved that wrong. So he went and did his thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

But yeah, I think the interesting thing about like him as well, like you know, from a performance standpoint, is that he wants to be the man, right? And he's not and he's he's talked a lot about like vulnerability and like leading into things, and you know, on the flip side of that, you know, you you mentioned like and I like him as well. I like how he talks Thomas Tootle, who's kind of like a German that taken over this England side, but if we look at the history of like how he's trained players and teams, and almost to the point of going, it's so extreme, right? Because he's heavily been influenced by a gentleman in Mainz University called Johann Scholhom, who talks about differential learning, and when he talks about like and then when he's taking training sessions, sometimes the players are just like completely like it's like Marcelo Bielsa with his like training and whatnot, like they they're so far, they're almost too far ahead of where of what the players are actually used to, and when you get too far ahead, it creates this like too big of a gap sometimes. But I do believe that with my side of things and your side of things, we can try and close a little bit of that gap, especially in golf. And I I would say the people that are listening to this, and I do think they have to be pretty open-minded to actually um not the apart their ego a little bit in some instances, and go, maybe there's other things to look into here, and maybe we can kind of guide them in that way, because I do think that's a uh a big challenge, you know, and it's been a challenge for me over the years, it's still a challenge, but I do think that it's the only way we grow the game in some instances.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

I think the the important thing is to listen to the whole story, and I think the another culture that we're in is you know, Facebook chat room or you know, where we're like just given in your field, you know um lock versus random practice, it's like the name on the box and not the actual contents of the box, right? And so, you know, so you have to get into it enough to listen to the whole story and then it makes sense. It's like, oh, there's nuance, right? And and the world we live in is is a limit in how much nuance people can accept. Even though, you know, ultimately everyone's trying to get to the same destination of being better or helping other people get better or whatever. If they you know don't trust their leader, as it were, which I think someone like um Bielsa potentially, but not not so much toothal, maybe toothal as well. If you're far ahead, but you know the people have respect and trust and faith, uh, you know, then they'll continue to move in the right direction. But when when the shit hits the fan, as it were, then and you're too far ahead, then it's sometimes uh you know, that's that's a crazy mad scientist doing his stuff there. Um so there's a sense that you know the level of leadership and respect and um you know relatability almost is is is is important and and I feel like Bielsa sometimes is so uh you know, he he throws throws his hand in a little bit too easily sometimes. Or not.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

To me, Bielsa is an educator. He's not uh he's not a coach for me. Like I have some guys I used to teach who work in football, and they they said he's like he is the headmaster, he he's the one that Pep Guardiola spones and asks about something, but Pep has a different way of like delivering and and whatnot with the else. It's very much like no, this is the you know, this is kind of the way, and I think sometimes we you know you have to adapt to the people that are in front of you. Oh that's the that's the coaching art, isn't it? You know, and and I think that's the kind of the depth that we're trying to and when we say depth, it's not like going into like massive riffs of like this is what this is where we should go, it's more like, well, have we thought about this? Are we you know, are we thinking about this, or are we just like completely with our blinkers on, going down the road of what so-and-so said on Instagram yesterday?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, I mean if you take that and just call it charisma, you know, sort of a magnetic charisma. I think it's sort of a very uh you know big thing in golf instruction, for example. You know, when I gave him a speech, we call that the halo effect.

unknown 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

And I think of someone like Book Charman, who clearly is a great coach and has an ability to influence people and has charisma. Um, you know, almost like a magical aura, where you know, again, you can say that's great and all good, but you know uh probably has some weaknesses too, right? You know, I mean that's like it can't all be good, but but to achieve that what he's achieved with um you know as many great players as he has, they have to have listened to him, and therefore he has that sense of rapport with those players, you know, has the level of charisma and personality that can do something and be trusted to make a change, uh, you know, and sustain that change.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, I think that's that's a great point as well. And um, you know, these this is just me and Terry kind of like riffing here of like what what we're gonna kind of discuss, you know, in a little bit more kind of like um structured like with the uh the the the future episodes ultimately and and what we're gonna kind of go down. And I think that's that's giving you hopefully a good taste of what of what's to come. We might not have made any sense to to all of you, but that's not what we're here to do. We're um we're here to kind of like chat and and it makes sense to us, and hopefully it makes sense to other people as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah, I feel like uh you know we've had so many good chats over the years, and they may or may not end up in a in a conclusion, but I feel like when I chat with you and I have a group of friends who I can chat with, then it helps to make me think more efficiently and better and more honestly and less uh biased in my own words. And uh, you know, so I think I I trust you to call me out on my bullshit, and uh I think when someone listens to the two of us talking, it may challenge their beliefs, may challenge their bullshit, and uh hopefully it'll cause them to listen a little bit further.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

But that's all we're kind of open, like we're looking at things and going, yeah, you're biased on this, and I go, Yeah, I am biased on this, but because I think there's some value in it as well, you know, and I think that you know it's like I I've seen too many players or too many people down the road of like going, it's all of this, you know. It's like, well, I only see it uh you know, I've only got a hammer, so everything I do is I see a nail, and it's just not the way it is in golf, is it? You know, and we're gonna try and we're gonna try and broaden that a little bit, and we're kind of trying you know, bring guests in, bring other people in to sort of like talk about other things, but also kind of like connect it back to golf because that's kind of where both of our lives are, and I think that's the difference between what we're doing on a podcast rather than what has been before on a golf podcast. You know, we're not here to talk about face-to-part relationships, we're talking about like the human connection to golf and you know what's going to drive performance forward.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, again, I think that comes back like my best influences in the way that I coach definitely have come almost entirely outside of golf. And within golf, you know, technology has been a big influence over the years because it's a it's a kind of a ground truth in some level, and depending what you do with it, but measuring things has changed coaching significantly. Um but you know, ultimately, you know, going back to someone like a book charm, or you know, the the great coaches over the years have been good at dealing with humans and whatever that means. And you know, now you've taken a much deeper dive into what that means in and out of golf. And you know, I'm very excited to hear, I mean, there's there's a tremendous amount of research in uh you know funded sports, right? So Olympic sports and national sports, but you know, golf's kind of a free-for-all, you know, I choose to go and study something, or somebody else chooses to do something, but in other sports there's there's a lot more um, you know, kind of support and money. And ultimately, responsibility to me makes you a better coach, and in their case, they're probably looking to spend their money more effectively and have a return for the country or for the federation or what have you. And so, you know, you want to talk to a little bit to how much, you know, crazy amount of research has been done on all these things that hasn't really permeated permeated into golf yet.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, and that it I mean it's a really good point because you know the the research that I've done and whatnot, and there's you know interviewing the players that I interviewed, it was it's really fascinating and really kind of interesting, and it's not like you can say, Oh, it's not about like anybody doing anything wrong, right? And saying, Oh, this is bad or this is bad. It's more like what are you missing? You know, and are you and not just missing, are you even aware of it? You know, are you aware of this over here or aware? And a lot of the time it's no, right? Because that's the fault for me about like academia and like research, is like a lot of research is done, but it's also parked in a library where it doesn't get out into the practitioners because the the language is too complex and and whatnot. So, you know, that's why I'm gonna try and bring my kind of like this person on this shoulder, this person on this shoulder, right? And go, well, yeah, I can translate that and I can try and put it into this person over here and put it out into the world. Because I think a lot of the research that's out there, it deserves that in in some ways. But again, we've got to get over this sort of like path dependency of like, oh, so-and-so told me this 25 years ago. Well, yeah, it might have been valuable 25 years ago, but things have moved on since then.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah, I agree. Well, I think, you know, ultimately, uh, you know, we both have a model for how we see. Um heuristics almost like for how we see you know people getting better at polymer golf or golf generally, and clearly there's outcome metrics, right? We are talking about hitting good shots under pressure or hitting good shots, you know, a high probability of good shots or whatever, and there's some technical changes in there. Um but the way in which you incorporate that into your game, the way it might be communicated or assessed or decisions made, or and then how do you spend your time around that concept, you know, over how much time. There's so many, you know, if you look at it like uh um, you know, you go to a trainer, I want to run a marathon in a year, you know, whatever that may be, or I want to win the money less than a year. Um you know, you don't check in tomorrow and say, you know, I tried that uh running up the stairs thing, and uh probably really got out of breath. I'm not sure that's gonna work out for me. But speaking for myself, and um, you know, but ultimately understanding that there's a way to create a program over time around performance that's not just you know try this, try this, try this. And you know, I think there's uh there's a really you know opportune time to to have a longer form, deeper dive chat between two total nerds. Yeah, I think that's probably the age a little bit, but you know, to show that uh you know once the once the pieces pull, there's there's a much clearer path if you're able to to to you know take your distilled and clarified version of uh you know what academia says and and what a lot of the best organized sports organizations are are achieving.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

And I and to be honest, like when when I think about this, is that I I really want to do like one episode on this locked and random kind of whatever that is, because I almost I I almost want to like put it to bed in some ways because you know, going back to the guy sort of with Tupacle, like Wolfgang Showhoe, he's done huge amounts of like deep dive into this, and we get so obsessed about this whole like is it blocked or is it random? But I asked the question, is is either very good, to be quite honest. So it's like that's that's kind of where we're going with this. So if we were gonna say to wrap this kind of like first sort of like intro up and telling them telling people where this podcast is kind of gonna go, what would be a kind of like sum-up for you to kind of close this out?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Well, I think uh you know, ultimately we call it the performance room. What are the aspects that are linked to performance? Like I said, I have a model in my mind which includes you know many different aspects, and they all blend in. If you look at you know the best players in the world, I mean people can learn from that whether they're you know weekend golfer or not. But ultimately, there's some amount of you know dials that they're trying to dial, and practice is one of them, you know, how how they take care of their body, um, you know, strategy, you know, statistics, how do they actually measure their game, how do they measure their performance, you know, from my standpoint, you know, what kind of technical aspects you know facilitate better performance, but over what amount of time, you know, how do you manage information within within you know coaching? So I think you know, what we're gonna have is a body of talks over years, hopefully, which somebody can refer to and you know gradually build up their own ability to create their own model and their own thinking pattern, and hopefully, you know, you and I'll talk it through and become a lot smarter in the in the process of talking.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, I think that's a that's a good way of looking at it. And you know, what I would suggest and what I think is that, like I said, it is called the performance room. So you know, people who are gonna listen into this get yourself kind of strapped into a comfy chair and be open-minded and you know, not get all pissy just because we've said something that you don't that your bias doesn't agree with, like be you know, the the the greatest side of research, and what I've been involved in is like trying to prove yourself wrong, you know, and that's really the essence of it. And if people can't prove themselves wrong, you know, it almost becomes a law within academia, right? And in and in the practical sense. So we're not trying to get to that stage, but we are trying to get people to um not just say, okay, I'm not gonna take this information on because that person said it, but to almost have like a couple of stages before that and go, why are they staying saying this? And just trying to help people become a bit more of a filter in some ways, rather than just saying, Oh, this is the gospel. Because it's too much of that for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Well, I think the biggest thing is uh, you know, one of the great lessons I learned from uh John Grender was um you know how to use language better. And normalization is a huge issue in mental health, for example. So normalization means you give something a name and you turn it into stone, right? And so in the case of Block versus Random as our uh recent example, you know, it's either A or B, and there's no nuance. And ultimately, in order to have better mental health or a better understanding or a move more usable model with human beings that are not machines, you need to turn that stone back into something more fluid. And you know, that's like looking out the window here. Like today we have some very English rainy weather, and you say, Well, it always rains here, and it doesn't, clearly, but you stop the process, and ultimately when you're dealing with humans, they're all a little bit different. Um, you know, there's always nuance involved, and so if we can help people to understand it's neither A or B, it's some version of both, and give them, you know, almost like the dial to say, well, you know, I'm gonna dial it a little bit this way based on my experience and my knowledge, or dial it a little bit that way, then we actually turn all of these uh aspects into processes as opposed to uh sound bites, which ultimately, in my opinion, you know, people have gravitated one way or the other within golf instruction. I mean, coaching of golf has changed so much since we started together. Yeah. Uh and you know, people have moved out into the golf, you know, sort of fitness-based golf instructors or strategic-based golf instructors, or whatever. And and within all of those fields, ultimately, the people doing them are golf instructors, and you know, we all need more information, and especially from outside of golf, in my opinion, uh, to fill the bucket of information and help people make more fluid uh you know decisions, uh, you know, different with each people, each person, and you know, turn the turn the stone back into lava or something.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, exactly. That's a good point to kind of finish on there. I again before we kind of end this, I just want to say to people that are gonna listen to this that you have to stay tuned because we're not gonna put stuff out like every week and at certain times and whatnot. It's it's gonna come sporadically, it's gonna come you know, it might be two weeks, it might be four weeks, but what we're gonna put out is gonna be um it's gonna be good quality stuff, and I think that's the that's the best way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

I think we have some uh world-class uh guests as well, which I'm very excited about. I'm excited about that as well. Yeah, so I think uh you know, generally we're gonna kind of agree upon a theme at some point, and you know, we'll think about it, discuss it, very open to any comments about themes that we should discuss. I mean, um, you know, take a look. Stewie's got a tremendous amount of great information out there. You have a sub stack, um, many good interviews. Um, so you can pick through some of Stewie's history and and work out any intro any interesting subjects that we should expand upon. When does your uh um information about the in player interviews come out?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Well, I finished it, so I just need to um I need to write it up basically, and then and then it's ultimately about so the the the principle around the doctorate is we've done semi-structured interviews, we've create we've got themes coming out of the interviews of 18 elite golfers, and some people have said to me that oh, that doesn't seem very much, 18 elite golfers, but you know, I heard some guy talk about the other day and going, Oh, I interviewed 50 different elite golfers, and I'm like going, there's no way you've ever done that. You're just absolutely bullshitting.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

That's a difficult to achieve. I mean, that's not easy to do because you know the players these days have got a lot on their plate, and uh, you know, congratulations for for getting that many, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

And just going through the the the interviews, you know, it just takes so much time and and and and whatnot. And then we're looking at the themes that come out and trying to answer some of the questions that came from it through um through a complex adaptive systems lens. So this is like systems thinking, let's do dynamical systems theory with regards to kind of movement and whatnot, and how can we how can we look at it through that lens to start to create some kind of framework? Because ultimately the the doctorate is it's innovation, right? So it's like we have to have something that's practical that I could go into federations or I could do a lecture on online or whatnot. It's gonna be tangible for coaches to kind of like take. It's not gonna be like a PhD thesis where it's like okay, you just get buried in an archive based on past research. So that's that's the difference between a PhD and a um uh prof doc basically. It still sits at the same level, but a prof doc is about innovating the in the the domain that you're working in, whereas the PhD is much more about you know evolving research or or challenging past research. So yeah, it's all done, all the interviews are done, and we'll you know, we'll filter some of that into some of the conversations, and um it's it's also you know, the thing for me is that it's novel research, right? It's never been done before. That's amazing. Yeah, and and but it's scary as well, but why is it not being done before? You know, that's that's kind of how I look at it. But I think it's just levels of access to to like elite golfers, and I think that's the biggest challenge.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Well, I just don't think, I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't think anyone's ever considered this um, you know, scene of information or you know, uh almost a career path before that it's a thing, right? We just assume that as long as we you know give this magical piece of swing advice, then tech you know, it should should work. Otherwise, either we have to go and change our swing advice, which is a really pretty high-level coach already, or the player's an idiot and can do it. You know, so so this sort of binary outcome-related stuff is is now I I think you're making our job as as more technical instructors much easier because now the the quantity of information doesn't have to be quite as big, but the way in which it's applied specifically to appear in the in the tournament was um yeah, is going to be significantly better in the future.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Yeah, and it comes back to that, you know, that transfer question that we kind of like I touched on earlier in the in the conversation of like that that to me if you're dealing with an elite performer, whether it's an amateur or a you know, even sometimes a club golfer who wants to do well in like mid-ams and so on and so forth, you know, ultimately the the metric should be well, how well is this transfer into the golf course in the competitive environment? And it's um the almost bypass at times.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, the world has changed so much since COVID, hasn't it? Because if you look at it, we have uh, you know, there's many, many people who want to practice and think for themselves. You know, they're out there trying to get the information, they have a simulator at home, which I think the you know the launch monitor companies have boomed as many people can take from this. And I find that you know it's almost like you can't differentiate between person's score and their willingness to practice well and get the best information. It's more a question of who's more or less information uh interested in the best information. And it doesn't necessarily sit on a ranking list. You know, I have small hand cappers who are unbelievably great learners and they're on a fast learning curve, you know, and they can take the most complex information easily because you know a lot of people have much more difficult jobs than we do. It just doesn't mean they're good at golf, but you know, given good information, I've seen people uh manage the project of golf really well, even though they're you know maybe not the best today, but they're on their path to being the best version of themselves in the future. And they have the the resources to to you know measure things and practice in a way, but ultimately what you'll see is you know, someone buys a launch monitor and thinks, you know, there's this instantaneous, oh look, my clubhead speed is 92, it should be a hundred, let me just try and swing harder, and then suddenly you're in this uh you know spider's web of oh, I I can't make my clubhead speed higher, or you know, I can't change my face to path, or whatever it is. And so the measuring device didn't actually make the difference.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, it's true, very true. So good, thanks for this first episode. Good, and um we'll um and see what happens. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I don't I think that's the exciting bit. We have we have no preconceived ideas of what this is gonna be. Like we're just like starting it like a couple of amateurs in a you know, in a Plattstrip of course our uh presenting license worked on the Yeah, exactly, exactly. Good stuff, all right guys.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

See ya, thanks.