The Truth About Ronda Rousey's Losses. Her Coach Finally Talks.

The most controversial coach in the history of women's MMA has never told the full story.
Until now.
Edmond Tarverdyan trained Ronda Rousey for five years. He was in her corner for every fight. He watched her become the most dominant champion women's MMA had ever seen — and then watched it fall apart in 48 seconds.
He has been blamed for the losses. Called a terrible coach by her own mother. Analysed by Joe Rogan and every MMA commentator alive.
In this conversation he finally says what he has never said publicly.
What actually happened the night Ronda lost to Holly Holm — and why 28 days notice was only the beginning of the problem. What it was like when she could not drop half a pound after eight hours in a bathtub and they had to fight in Australia in the morning. Why he says Joe Rogan's analysis is wrong. What he wishes he had done differently. The brain hemorrhage that almost made him quit coaching entirely. And what he thinks Ronda would ask him if she was sitting here right now.
This is not the story MMA media told. This is the story from the man who was in the corner.
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WHAT WE COVER
How Edmond started coaching at 16 with a stick in his hand — and why parents loved it
The full story of what happened in the 28 days before the Holly Holm fight nobody talks about
Why Ronda was in a bathtub for 8 hours before the Amanda Nunes fight
What he actually thinks of Joe Rogan's analysis of the losses — and why he says it is completely wrong
The moment he knocked on Ronda's door before the Amanda fight and saw Travis Brown there for the first time
What he wishes he had said or done differently
The brain hemorrhage that almost made him walk away from coaching forever
Whether Arman Tsarukyan is the most coachable fighter he has ever worked with
What Armenian parents get wrong about putting their kids in combat sports
What Ronda Rousey would ask him if she was sitting in this chair right now — and what he would say back
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Cold open
01:00 Building Glendale Fighting Club from a printing shop — two years of legal battles
08:00 Starting coaching at 16 — the stick, the strict parents and the mistakes
13:00 How Ronda came into his gym — and why he threw her out first
20:00 The early years before she became famous — six amateur fights, all first round
27:00 The Holly Holm fight — 28 days notice and what really happened
38:00 The Amanda Nunes fight — the bathtub, the morning weigh-in, Travis Brown
48:00 His response to Joe Rogan's analysis — and why he says it is wrong
55:00 The brain hemorrhage — two months away from the gym
62:00 Arman Tsarukyan — what makes him different from everyone else
68:00 What Armenian parents get wrong about combat sports
78:00 What Ronda would ask him right now — and his answer
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ABOUT EDMOND TARVERDYAN
Founder, Glendale Fighting Club, Glendale, California. Former head trainer, Ronda Rousey. Current trainer, Arman Tsarukyan and multiple UFC fighters. Over 30 years coaching combat sports in the Armenian-American community of Los Angeles.
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ABOUT INSIGHT
INSIGHT is the first Armenian-English language power and culture podcast in the United States, hosted by Emma Sargsyan. Distributed across all major podcast platforms and amplified through emmasargsyan.com.
Subscribe for new episodes every week.
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Follow Emma: @emmasargsyan
Listen: Spotify · Apple Podcasts · All major platforms
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#RondaRousey #EdmondTarverdyan #UFC #MMA #GlendaleFC #ArmanTsarukyan #Boxing #ArmenianAmerican #INSIGHT #EmmaInsight #WomensMMA #UFC #HollyHolm #AmandaNunes

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

I'm back here at the reserve, and in front of me is sitting a person who is training 90% of the Armenian people that end up in the UFC. His name is Edmond Tarvedian, and I have a lot of questions about UFC, about how to get there, people he has trained, and people he is training. Edmund, thank you very much for being here today.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Before I start the hard questions about the stuff that you did and the legends that you have trained, I want to know. You built a Glendale Fighting Club out of an old car showroom on Brand Boulevard. When you were doing this, what was in your mind? What what do you would you did you think it would achieve?

SPEAKER_05 0:53

So I was 16 when I started my first gym. Um it was on Maple. Um so my coach opened up another gym in North Hollywood, and there was a few months left in the lease to be over. He we had like 10 students, and he was more focused on the North Hollywood gym. He got married, and he told me just continue this 10 students until the lease is over. We'll figure it out. I was only 16. And then when I started coaching, a lot of kids came back because I was one of the best athletes in the gym. And I was competing at that time. So once I started coaching, three months was over, we had like 50, 60, whatever kids. And the parents were like, You're so good, please don't let us down. The kids love you and you have to coach. So I didn't even want to become a coach, but it just happened. And I think I was just gifted to speak and, you know, motivate the kids. And of course, as you go, you make so many mistakes. I really thought about that because the first 10 years I thought I was the best coach and I didn't realize that I wasn't, you know, but now I'm ready to say that. So after 10 years experience, you start seeing everything differently, all those hours you put. But I used to coach so much. I used to get out of high school at 16 and come to the gym, open it up, coach until 10, and then I started doing private. So I would coach until like 12 at night. So that was so many hours I would put in from a young age. And it was difficult because to get the attention of all the parents that are older than me, bringing their kids to trusting me. It wasn't easy. But I had good mentors. My coaches were great. Ken Artunian and Coach Naso, um, which has nozzle boxing and he's great, he's still doing great. And um, you know, they would guide me, and if I had any questions, I would ask. I think that's very important that when you do not shy away and you don't think that you're the best, then you ask for advice. And I was blessed to have good advice from great coaches. And that taught me, but I was 16, then we had to close the gym, so then we put it under my brother's name because legally I couldn't open a gym at that age. You are not, yeah. Yes, I wasn't old enough. So we did that. And then after like 10 years of coaching there, I got the location on brand that you're talking about. It was actually a printing shop, not a body shop, but still all it's all around body shops, so yeah, people would think it's a body shop. And the city didn't let me do that. So I had to get, you know, the mayor involved and a lot of people. And Frank Quintero, um, Hispanic mayor at that time, really helped me. And actually, there was the council members, a few of them were Armenian and they vote against me. And I was like, why? Like this martial arts and the zoning wasn't approved because they wanted zoning elsewhere. I said, elsewhere, like on San Fernando, I'm not comfortable going there. There's so many bad things going on there, and especially back in the days. And I said, this is a safer place. So our argument was good enough, and Frank really helped me to get the place. And I said, fights happen in, you know, I mean, boxing was banned in Glendale, and we got the licenses to the the waiver to start promoting boxing because of all the fights with whites and the blacks in uh Glendale, California. So they didn't let boxing events happen because they thought the crowd would fight each other and who would win this and that. And I was like, in American football games in high school, they fight. You know, it happens this part of the sport, but we we did that also. So there was um, they put a case on me in Glendale that you're operating a business without the zoning licenses, this, that. So I had to go through hell for like two years to get my uh fictitious name, the business license to operate the gym in Glendale. Yeah, it was difficult because there is no gyms out there, especially over 2,000 square feet. And that's a big it's my place is 4,000. It's a bigger location. You need parking variation, this, that. So I went through hell, but never gave up. And you know, we finally made it happen. And yeah, Frank really helped me. And that's how I started. I started coaching, and that's the gym when um everything turned around. I got uh great fighters. But I think the reason was is because of my experience. It wasn't because the location was so good. I think um great athletes will find great coaches because they do their research, they do put their time and they do want to get the attention of the trainer. And, you know, I have a son myself that plays soccer, and I always tell him, you know, the coach will show up when you're ready to work. You want to work extra? Trust me, the coach will not say no if it's a great coach and has a good heart and trusts you and wants you to be better and believes in you. So, you know, that's what happened. A lot of people saw the dedication I had and the time I put in, and that's the time, you know, everything turned around and I got great fighters.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

You were 16. At that time, were you real like you had you were loved, like the parents trusted you. Were you realizing the responsibility you are getting yourself into? Or were you just very young to realize realize that?

SPEAKER_05 5:41

I was young, I think, to realize that because I was a little bit too strict and I was a little bit too crazy back in the days, especially when it was all Armenians in my gym, and it was like in a little in the wall, like you couldn't even see the door. So it was on the Maple Plaza inside, and yeah, like having the stick in our hands, punishing kids, like that's what we learned, just like that. And the parents loved it. Now you cannot do that. Now you cannot do that, yes. But the parents loved it, they didn't care, and they even wanted it more stricter. But when I look back, I had crazy fighters that if it was the time now, the experience and the connections and the way I see things, if I had those kids, I think, you know, let's say in UFC there's five Armenian fighters, three of them are my kids that I trained from you know, from a young age. I would have had um maybe over 10, 20 kids in there. You know?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

You got very famous by training Ronda Rose. Initially, according to you, you were not interested in training her because you were very busy with boxers and fighters, other kids that you you had. What was that tipping point that changed your that changed your mind? And you decided that okay, I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

That's a great question. Um I think she realized my personality and um she wrote a book, of course, in her first book. It's all my pictures and her pictures, and it's mostly about me and her our relationship and how we train together and you know, about her life too, of course. But um she her mom was besides her when she was doing judo and was real strict and pushed her to the limit. Realistically, and yeah, and we I think when she saw uh my personality, she learned that I don't care and I don't think she should be in the sport because she's a woman, and women fighters do not make the money they should be making at that time. And I said it's better she does something else because she was talented, I noticed that, and she was an Olympic medalist, you know, so I was like, okay, first Olympic medalist, but I didn't even know her last name, to be honest. And then so she fought with me. She fought with me because I had a fighter that had to go corner and you know, he had to make weight. I said, I don't want to work with you, I don't want to sweat. And she started going crazy. Like I drove all this time, and she had nothing, you know, and she spent so much time working and trying to make it out from Venice, Santa Monica to my gym. And she basically she started swearing and you know, telling me this is not right and all those crazy words. I threw her out of the gym. And then I realized that it sucks. Like, you know, she's a girl and why she's that emotional about it. She really wants me to work with her. And I called her back, I gave her the keys. I said, just come train if I have time. And when I did that, I think she noticed that like she has my attention and she knows that I don't care. Like, you want to work? All right, here's the keys. It's your gym. You arrive earlier than everybody, which she would do that, and she would work so hard. So that was the turning point. I think she fought with me and she knew if she could press my buttons and really, you know, uh get my attention, I would work with her.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Before she became one of the most famous uh athletes in the world, what was it like? Where like, okay, the tipping point was gone, you were training her. Yes. What were the early years? Like you trained her five years. What were the first couple of years like before she became who she was?

SPEAKER_05 9:06

So before we turned professional, she had like six amateur fights, and she won all six in the first round. And um, the first amateur fight, I didn't even know she has a date to fight. And her manager back then, before I became her manager, uh, called me. And Darren Harvey, his name, he called me, said, Are you around? And we were around there. It was some crazy city. I never look back into the days, which day it is, because I like to look forward and create more champions. So I hate thinking back, but I know exactly what happened that day, and we're around there, and I was with my friend Chris. I said, Maybe we should go corner this girl because she's an Olympic medalist, and the manager called me. She has a manager, and I know the guy's serious and is, you know, a businessman and doesn't know much about fighting, but doesn't matter. You know, he's wealthy enough to get it together, get you know, get a fighter to the level he wants to. And I said, let's go. And when we went, she was so excited. She just stood up. What do I do? I said, Let me wrap your hands. When I wrapped her hand, she said, I could kill people with these, you know, hand wraps. And I looked at her, I was like, This girl's crazy. So then she warmed up and got into the octagon, finished the fight, exactly did what I asked her to do. Just keep your hands up, move forward and grab her and take her down and use your judo with your best. There's no way somebody could back up and kick you or punch you at this level, you know, don't worry about it. Or I I trust you 100%. I said, do it. And she did it. And from that day, I knew she was special. So when I came back, I asked for her last name.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

I didn't know I didn't know that. I didn't know her last name.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

I didn't mean Ronda Olympic medalists. And when they would say judo Olympic medalist, I knew that American judo team is not strong. The wrestling is very strong, but judo in America is not strong. If you go out to Russia, Georgia, very good. Uh judo guys and France and European countries, but not in the United States. They focus more on wrestling. And the universities have a scholarship to Division I wrestling schools, which we have kids right now in wrestling Division I Stanford. It's my friend Martin and my brother-in-law's son Gregor Chalakian and their kids in Stanford Division I wrestling. So it's great. I knew about wrestling that it gives great opportunity to kids, but not judo. So I was like, how good could she be? You know, I didn't know her last name. And then when that happened, I was, you know, I was like, she's really good. So I got her last name. Yeah, and I researched, and I saw even her amateur fight that she did, it had like like in three, four days I researched. It had like on YouTube like over 200,000 views. I was like, how is this possible? An amateur fight. Nobody knows about it. It's in a gym. It was in a gym in like Chatsworths. So I'm like, how is this possible? So I saw that she has such a fan base because of uh being a judo guy in judo, and she was the first Olympic judo female bronze medalist. So she had a good name, and her mom was a world champion, you know, one of the first ones in judo. So it I was like, okay, this is good. And then Victor Chinyin's promoter promoted women fighting, which is Gina Carano that she just fought at and won. So Gina, yeah, was the first one to fight in Elite XC, which was a promotion that Gary Shaw, Victor Chinyan's boxing promoter, made for fighting. And I called uh Gary Shaw because I was training Vic at the time, and I said, How much did this girl get? And he said, $200,000. I said, All right, that's not bad. So at least she has she could make something. And I know she could beat Gina, you know. Back then I was like, there's no way this girl's a beast. Like all she needs is takedown. So um, yeah, I told her that, you know, I think you could do something about this. Like you could, you know, start working and you know, financially, you know, you could support yourself at least. Of course, that's still little money for a trainer to make so much money off of that. And even when she did come to that point of in her career making just $200,000, I said, I don't need nothing from you because I believe you could do more. Because as she was going up, as we went to the second and third year, UFC picked her up. I knew she was gonna fight for $10 million. And that that, you know, it was a no-brainer because I saw the view status. Yeah, because I saw that her numbers are as high as, let's say, preseason NFL game numbers. I'm like, how is this possible? And I, you know, did my research. From I did her whole fights in the UFC until she lost and she retired, and then this last one when she came back, she called me and said, I just want to do it with my family inside my house train, and coaches come, and she didn't need me, you know. And I said you could do it, you could beat her today if you get up from sleep, and that's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Like that was 10 seconds, like it didn't even start.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

Yeah, yeah. That was already. Yeah, well, Gina was 46 years old, a little bit. I don't want to take anything away from Rhonda, but it's not easy to fight at that age. But it was a beautiful fight, you know, good for both of them, and it's good promotion, and it's good for them.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

That's all mom mom me up. I want to ask you about that 48 seconds.

SPEAKER_05 14:06

Because even if Gina was in her prime, she couldn't beat Rhonda. It's impossible. She couldn't? No way.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Oh wow. No way. Yeah, okay. Um you trained Rhonda for five years, and then she lost. And then you heard some horrible things about you. You you mentioned her mom a couple of times, and I want to quote she said that you are a terrible coach and the best person. Um personally, I don't think that this is something that should be said. No, no, no, no, no. Like particularly for a person that has trained for five years and it's just one loss. Absolutely. But what did feel? What did it feel to listen that from a from a person that you had put your heart into, yeah. Your uh time, your resources, your efforts. What did you feel?

SPEAKER_05 14:53

Uh you know, it it it doesn't feel right. Of course, I felt bad. Again, I had good guidance. At the end, I I said what I had to say. And Rhonda said what she had to say. She said, I'm still here in the gym and nothing's gonna change my mind. So that says that, okay, Edmund's still my coach, and you know, I trust them and there's nothing wrong, and we're gonna keep doing this. So that gave me a lot of you know, it made me happy that she said that. No need for anyone to speak bad about anybody's mom. No, I didn't I didn't even talk to her or Rhonda or we knew that, you know, this I I I felt this was gonna happen, you know, sooner or later later because honestly, first three, four years, she didn't even have my phone number, her mom. And she asked on the table when we were eating, could I have Edmund's phone number? And I said, Ask your daughter. She has my number. So and you know, when somebody there's a saying, when you outshine the master, that's what's gonna happen because she had so much time put into Rhonda. And I always told Rhonda, if you want her to corner the fights with us and be next to you, I'm open to that. Yeah. Of course, I'm the head trainer and she doesn't know much about fighting. Judo she does, but not there's a gi and judo and this is not judo, and she she said no. So she knew that I was always open to working with her mom, but there's a reason why she said no. It's not my fault, you know? And then of course, you know, uh she was she found a boyfriend which was my trainer also in my gym, and things a little bit, you know, was I was strict about every training session, you know, and things had to be a little bit different, so a little bit back and forth talk started happening, and that's when she came out and she made a big deal out of it, you know, which which happens. Which happens because she wants to protect the daughter. She doesn't know much, you know, and she wants to make sure everything is okay, which was, and they're married until now happen two kids. So I think everything worked out to the best for her. But all those um, you know, bad coach, this and that, bad coach after that, I trained a kid that was 10 years old in my gym at 18. He was ranked in the top 10 in the UFC. He's still in the UFC fighting uh top 10 fighters, he just fought a kid that's ranked number four in the world. So those kids trained with me, and they were training partners with Ronda, and they had no physical ability at all. All they had is work ethics, and I got him into the top 10 at 18, 19, 20 years old into the UFC, making over six figures. So there's nothing else I could do is to just make more world champions, which you know we're gonna do that, and I'm still gonna do that, but that is not in my mind. Everybody that's trained with me knows the level and the experience I have.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah. After the loss to Holly Holm and the dramatic 48-second loss to Amanda Nunes in four hit seconds, almost every analysis pointed out to the same thing that you kept her standing and boxing against against world-class strikers uh instead of leaning into the judo and grablings that made her dominant. Now, when you're looking back to that, like with a sober eye from the distance, was it the right uh criticism or not?

SPEAKER_05 18:04

It's it's stupidity. It's stupidity because I I even Joe Rogan, you know, all these guys doing big podcasts and talking about it, is just dumb as shit. That's what I think. Because of course I want her to take her down. That's her bread or butter. If she wins, I win. Like, why would I tell her don't work on the takedown? Why wouldn't I work on the takedown? It's like it's black and white for me. I'm just gonna choose the white. We're gonna have to win. And the way we're gonna win is with a takedown.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Okay, then where does this analysis come from? Why do they do the remote?

SPEAKER_05 18:36

Is because is because the fight was standing up and she couldn't get the clinch, and the the girls had a great game plan. Holly Holmes is a lefty. When you fight a lefty, it's so much harder to clinch because the punch from behind the hand comes straight into your face, into your liver. When you fight a righty, even if they throw the biggest right hand, even if you shy away or get scared of it, it's not gonna hit you. And she fought all the fights with a righty. Before she fought Holly Holmes, three two years before, I said the toughest fight is Holly Holmes. There's a podcast I say that. Why do I say that? Because it's a lefty. You have to be patient with a lefty. You can't rush into the fight. She tried to clinch, clinch, clinch, and she did clinch. But before that, she was hit, she was hurt. She did take Holly down. She did get the armbar. If you look at the first round, in the first four minutes, right when it there's a minute left, Rhonda wobbles Holly. Well, Holly's both legs were out. She was wobbled and she went back. Nobody talks about that. But I saw that. Our coaches saw that. She was out on her feet, but how did she recover? Because she has 38 professional boxing matches. Anybody else wouldn't have taken that shot. But she did. She stopped the takedowns, then she got taken down. She stopped the armbar. Great coaches. John Jones trained there, Winkle John, you know, and she got that fight in 28 days' notice. Rhonda wasn't supposed to fight that fight. Three fights in one year. Yes. Three fights in one year making that weight. She couldn't make weight. She called me. She said, UFC called me. I said, Why are you even calling me? I know you said yes to the fight. Because I know what kind of a fighter she is. She would always say, I'll be ready to fight in a week. So now she has to make weight. She's on vacation in Australia. Robbie Lolly is supposed to fight. They throw us in there, worst matchup, and we have 28 days to prepare. She would have left you. She was in the bathtub for eight hours. She couldn't drop a half a pound.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

She was like miserable. That fight, like everything was wrong in that fight.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Did you know that she was not going to make it with me?

SPEAKER_05 20:32

No, I didn't because I still believed and trusted her. If she followed the game plan, I think she would have done so much easier and she would have finished her. But she's such a fighter that at that time, when you get caught early, it's like Mike Tyson. When he got caught, he lost. People like that, they're so strong mentally and they're such fighters that they're not gonna back down from a fight. So that cost her more. The more she went, the more she pressed, the more she went for it, she got hit more. Because now you're fighting a counterpuncher. I wish she was scared a little bit. She would have won that fight. But she would never be scared.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Did it psychologically affect her? Because you mentioned before the you had the absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 21:09

After that fight, like come on, how could you fight Amanda Lucy?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

How about before?

SPEAKER_05 21:13

How long yes, because 28 days notice and eight hours in the bathtub, and especially her tough is like that. It's not happening and all that. Of course, regardless how much she doesn't show it, how tough she is. But I knew because of after the weigh-ins, she wouldn't sleep that much. I would make sure she walks, she eats, you know, gets her health back, and then she sleeps good at night so she could be ready. And in the we fought in the morning in Australia, it was morning time, and it cost us there too. We couldn't recover as much. We were out of the fight, and I was like, is this a dream at 12 at in the morning? I'm like, we lost the fight. Like, how is this possible?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Amanda Nunes destroys Ronda Rousey.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

12 to 1 underdog. Like it was tough, but you know, you learn, and I remember when I went and knocked on her door that The first time Travis Brown was with her. First time she had somebody with her in the room. She would always stay alone for a week when I would travel, you know, make sure she's, you know, getting everything, of course, spending time watching fights with me, making sure they're getting plans, right? And that's the first time Travis Brown came and I went and knocked on the door, she was sleeping. But she never we've never had that. So so many things were different.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Was she supposed to be sleeping?

SPEAKER_05 22:24

No, she wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

No, she wasn't. So she was drained. She was so tired that she had no choice. She like I saw it that in her.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Could she drop?

SPEAKER_05 22:33

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Could she drop?

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Drop her weight?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

No, could she just refuse to fight?

SPEAKER_05 22:37

Oh, drop the fight. That's what you mean. No, at that level, I think she would have never. No.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Apart from what she would have.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

I mean, yeah, a bad weight cla uh weight cut. Sorry, if you're like that miserable and they check your heart rate, if you call the ambulance and the doctors are they say that that's it, you're stopping, they could call the call fight off. But with her, it's that's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

From what I understood, you could see this coming. You and you were almost for sure, but you had so much belief in her that you didn't say a word.

SPEAKER_05 23:07

You I wish I did. I wish I did. And um you have to look at them as your as your child at times, you know? And if you you don't, you make mistakes. When you trust them too much and you believe too much, and this is what happens. And I've had my mistakes too, I will take the blame. You know, okay, wrong game plan, okay. Do it better than me. You've had champions, no, you didn't, so I don't even want to talk to you, but okay, say it. You know, so they say it in the internet. And but you see, my mistakes, I say it, and that's reasonable. But theirs is not reasonable. It's stupid. It's like, oh, you you taught her to stand up and fight. For God's sake, come on, like how where does that make sense? Like, she's that dumb to do that. Even if I said it, she would be like, Are you stupid? Like, a level, uh an athlete at that level has a relationship with the trainer. Like they say things too that make sense. Yeah, you're not gonna force anybody to do anything, especially in the United States and especially a woman. You are not gonna do that. Yeah, no way. And I've thought about that because of the consequences in the future that you could have.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Well, it's also very easy to blame, you know? Like I can go and say, Yeah, you you did this. If you did, and you you see a lot of people amateurs that don't have a lot of idea what's going on. They would just recommend, advise, you have to do this, you have to do that. It's really easy to blame, but they don't know what's going on inside the mind of the person. And I really think that it is unfair. That's why I'm asking you these questions. And I want to know that is there a version of those fights that you ne uh in your mind that you never said publicly. For example, if you would go back to time, would you keep her off from doing this, that that fight with No, I think I still until now because listen, um I knew she was good.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

And, you know, even though she was getting in the bathtub, it was very hard. That eight hours we spent, we were cutting, and then the last half a pound was a difficult. So that's why I'm saying eight hours, because still you shouldn't be on the bathtub for eight hours to make weight. I think that's miserable. I think it's unhealthy, it's bad for the body. But hey, getting hit is bad already. So am I gonna pull out at that second? No, is she gonna let me know? And if I saw that there was, you know, fainting or her eyes rolling back or fatigue or pale or not speaking, not reacting, I would have called the ambulance. Yes, I would have, because I know my heart. And she knows how much I loved and cared about her. So I would not risk that. But still, see, I'm saying that I wish I didn't call it off. It's because we lost the fight.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Would it be would her career and life be any different if you called it off?

SPEAKER_05 25:38

No, because losses are for everybody. What what it would what kind of a loss is that? Like, come on. You know, Max Kellerman said it best. They said Edmund, he said Edmund, with this loss, the whole world is talking about her fight. The whole world was talking about that fight. So did she really lose or did she win? She did win. Come on, it's not only about the results of the fight, it's about what you do with that fight.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Had she won, would it be like just the next fight that she won? People would not be speaking as much.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

The next fight, of course she would win because it was Misha Tate when Holly beat her. Misha Tate beat Holly, and Rhonda beat Misha Tate twice, which she still trained 30 days. She was acting and making movies. She came back, she was so skinny and lean. She had to gain her speed and power back, and I had to train her. She was in Bulgaria and I put some trainings resume for her. I couldn't travel with her because I had Darcinyan and Alvana, so all the fighters. God rest his soul, Vana's good kid. And and I had all these, all these people, so I couldn't travel, but and I knew how she was gonna beat Misha regardless. So I took that risk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go. And I put a program, she followed it, but she was still not in shape. And she came, she still beat Misha. And so Misha won the fight with Holly, and now we have to fight Misha. And she didn't want to fight. If she fought, she would have won the belt back so easy. But she didn't want to fight. It's because she wanted to fight, she was tired, you know, lost. And I agreed because after a tough fight like that, you do want to take time off. But against Misha, like it was if it was a guy, I would say, get your ass up and do it. And even slap him and just get it together. But with her, she was so emotional about it and you know, so big and a big loss like that. So I understand why she didn't, but I'm sure she thinks about it. Why I should have gotten up and beaten Holly and uh sorry, Amanda, I think. Misha Tate, yeah, and then she wouldn't fight Amanda and that would have been over. But all right, it still doesn't matter. Amanda's a great champion, fought a great fight. And, you know, after losing like that, fighting a tougher fight, you know, I think it's not right. But in UFC, they don't care. That's why the promotion is so big. If it was boxing, we would have taken up a tune-up fight, which is just an easy fight for you to get your mind there, get your feeling back, you know, and you know, work on yourself a little bit mentally, of course, most importantly, and then physically. But we didn't have that chance. So it was Amanda, she said, I'm ready, I'm gonna do this. And you're ready to train. I said, I'm ready. So we went out, you know, to a Frasier Park. We did a good camp, trained hard, and she was fit. She was ready. Rhonda was ready, but mental and psychological do so much more than the physical, because physically she was so ready in that fight. She took like like 15-20 shots in her face, and she still didn't drop. She was on her feet. If you watch that fight, she took like boom, boom shots. I don't even want to think about it. Guys can't take those punches. I swear she was on her feet, and that shows that her legs were strong. She was ready because usually a alpha shot like that, like Amanda clipped uh cyborg in front of me with one punch like that, and cyborg just was out. She couldn't drop Ron.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

She was 15 and she was fine.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

She took 15 shots. More than 15. I'm saying 15 deaths less, right on her jaw. And she didn't drop. She was still wobbling on her feet, and the ref waved it off. So that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Going back to that loss, and from what I I hear right now, you were the one that deeply cared about her, not only as an athlete, as your trainee client, but as a person. What did it do to you standing in a corner, watching her lose so dramatically? In deep inside your heart, knowing that it was coming. What did you do?

SPEAKER_05 29:31

It it hurt me. It hurt me. I didn't leave the house or speak to anybody. You know, even in even in Brazil, when we've had badge crea, already crazy stuff were happening. And I didn't leave the room for like two weeks. And then, you know, one of the coaches said, Let's go to the beach, you'll refresh yourself, you know, this and that. And I I listened to him, and that was actually good for me. But um I did my job 100%, I think, with my ability and with my experience, and it did hurt me a lot, but I've been through worse. I've had my friend that I cornered had a brain hemorrhage off a fight. And, you know, he went into the locker room and he was yelling that my head's spinning and I can't see, and he started throwing up. I ran and called the ambulance, and you know, he had brain hemorrhage, and you know, we were in the hospital for two, three days checking him so it wouldn't bleed through because he was gonna fall into a coma and then they had to drill a hole in his head. And thank God that didn't happen. But that that was my worst time, and I really wanted to stop coaching fighters. You know, I was like, this bad. Like, and when I looked at him, he said, like, they're not gonna let me fight anymore, and this is all I know.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

That's what he was caring about at that moment.

SPEAKER_05 30:43

That broke me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Oh my god, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

That broke me so much more that I think from that I learned to train fighters so much harder. Like, if you want to fight, you better know this could happen. And I was on them, and I made sure they were ready to fight. And I think that made me better, but I really wanted to stop. I didn't go to the gym for like two months after that.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Two months. Yeah. Like, okay, so it was a trauma that you endured. But have you really actually thought that okay, I'm not doing this anymore?

SPEAKER_05 31:18

No, because now I I don't say I'm not doing it. I don't encourage any kid to do it. I will encourage them to learn how to defend themselves and do it as a sport, even a secondary sport, to feel good about yourself, to learn the discipline aspect and all the great things martial arts or boxing gives you. I think it disciplines the crazy people. And once you start boxing, you realize that you should do this in the gym instead of outside. So it's so much, so much art into it. And I love doing that. And I trained kids until now, and but I don't encourage them to fight. And I will never say go fight or compete. So once it's their decision and I see they want it so much and they want to get my attention to take them to competition and they look into the USA boxing schedule. I just had a national champion three months ago, which no Armenians won nationals, you know, at 15 years old. We've had a US Olympian, honest Mariocian, and I just said he passed away recently, and he was one of our fighters. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I trained him. He won the WBC title, which is huge, silver world title at the staple center. And, you know, this kid won the nationals, and but they want to, their parents want to, their dad is involved, they research, they get their licenses, coach, this is the date, they hold get the hotels, and I'm like, okay, I gotta go through this again. Let's do it. And we went, we won uh three, four matches, and he got first place gold medal, and he's 15. I wish he was 16 or 17 because he would qualify for the Olympic Games because he's number one ranked in the US, but that's not gonna happen. So now the next step will be professional or wait another, you know, six years after the next Olympics, you have to wait another four. So he won't make it to the Olympics Games because he'll be young, he'll still be 17, turning 17. So you have to be 18, but you have to be 18 to win the qualifications.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

So I've always wondered, and you are a parent yourself, your kid is playing soccer. What makes parents uh promote their children to go to this fighting and uh sports that are actually not safe where like, okay, you train, you said you train, but you are not encouraging them to go to fight, right? Yes what makes the parents to want their kid to fight? What is like I don't I don't as a parent, would you do that?

SPEAKER_05 33:34

Right, and I would never do that. My son plays soccer, he doesn't fight, but he's trained in my gym, and that helped him so much with every aspect of any if any any sport he plays, I think he's learned enough discipline from our gym that he'll be okay or good at it. Not the greatest, you know, but um I think parents nowadays are more educated than before. Before kids were tougher. Now parents are a little bit more educated. Not a little bit, they're pretty educated because they bring the kids to the gym. They said, I mean, we want him to learn martial arts to defend himself, but our goal is not for him to make it professional.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:12

I think the lack of experience and the knowledge they have is let's say if they do a sport, will that sport get him into the university with a free ride, like I just talked about, the kid, Grigor, right? Um, and I wish they do it that way because they do sports sometimes, fighting sports that doesn't give scholarships. Why not? If you're gonna be grappling, like I love wrestling, jujutsu, like I love it. A lot of guys, you know, teach kids, keep them off the streets, a lot of discipline. But if you're so good at that, wrestle. Because it's almost the same thing, but wrestling will give you a $400,000 free ride to a scholarship, to a university. You'll be really well, and they're getting paid monthly to compete.

unknown 34:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

So why would you do the that one and not the other? Yeah, it's like basically kickboxing instead of boxing. If you're gonna be that great of a kickboxer, your hands are good. Think about boxing. You can make hundred million instead of a hundred thousand. We have Giorgio Petrosia from Italy. I love him. He's the legend, he's the best fighter, right, in the world in kickboxing. But his biggest pay is a million dollars, and I think he deserves two, three hundred million dollars. But he's never made that, and it sucks. I wish he bought it. Yeah, I was like, bro, if you're in America, you would have killed everybody. He's a he's one of the best. Does he not know about that? Yeah, he knows, and we're laughing about it. And I had a friend um that is really um in soccer and Modridge and all the great soccer players he's manages and friends with. And he was like, This guy's a legend, and we're eating in Beverly Hills, and I brought Giorgio here to do a seminar. And he was like, How much money did he make? And I was like, A million dollars, his biggest fight. It was like, please don't do that. He's like, please. I'm like, yeah, I'm saying, I'm being honest. And he was so upset, he goes, How is this possible? So yeah, some I think that's the part that parents should do it correctly if the kid is talented enough or wants it. But parents are educated enough now to bring him in my gym and say, we're not worried about that at all. We just want him to learn discipline, learn how to fight, defend themselves. It's great. But you as a parent who think that your kid is so good or like push them to fight, it's like, come on, let the coach do the job. Trust the coach, take him to a coach that has experience enough at professional fighters, ask him what makes a pro. What does the kid need to become a professional athlete? To become a professional fighter. It's a simple question. And I don't get that a lot. You know what I get? My kid is good. My kid is my kid.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Regardless if he's good or bad, right?

SPEAKER_05 36:45

Like, who cares about punching hard? Why don't you think about if your kid could take an ass beating and stay in the fight? That's more important. If the kid could get hit and keep moving forward, watch the Rocky movie, please, before you bring him to me. It says the most important thing is to get hit and keep moving forward. Don't give give up.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Like, is it their ambition speaking, not the best solution?

SPEAKER_05 37:05

I think they get too like drawn into like, you know, of course I love my son and I love the way he plays, but I have to be real with myself. That's why he's home study and he hasn't been at home most of his life. He's played over 300 international games with Benfica, Sporting, Real Madrid, Barça, practicing in Grimrio Academy and Brazil. It's it's hard. In Argentina, Poland, Germany. He's probably traveled more than me and played more than, you know, did more than me at this age. But like, I'm not gonna sit here and say he's the best. I'm not gonna say that's gonna happen. I'm gonna ask advice from the coach. I've spoken to his coach probably like two times about training. And I'm a trainer myself, but I encourage him. I call and say, God with you, I'm praying for you guys. Go do your job. And he thanks me. And I say, if you need any type of advice, I'm here for you. Not to teach him tactical soccer, but yeah, trust me, I could help him a little bit mentally and maybe what he's going through when there's a loss.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

From what I'm hearing and from what I'm seeing, isn't media romanticizing all this fighting and stuff? Because we see Ronda, we see Armand Zarukian, we see all these successful people winning titles, doing the crazy stuff. And as a parent, you look and like, okay, my kid is good. He can be as good as Arman or as Rhonda. What does that media do? I mean, it's a business. Of course, it is a business. You earn a lot of money. But do we need some educational work to do?

SPEAKER_05 38:35

You need education. Again, you need to ask the high-level trainers, what does it take? What do they do that's different that they're at this level? Or what do they have personality-wise, right? What do they have? What's in their personality? Armin's a great student. When I leave the gym, when I train him, and I train him every time he's here and you know, getting ready for his next fight, I will be helping him. Every time I leave, he asks me questions, Coach, could you look at this? Could you come back with this? Could you give me more? Could you give me more? Could you give me more? Now, does your kid do that? Do you teach your kid to do that? No. So it's going to be tough to get to that level if you don't do that. Same with Rhonda. Now, is he tough? Absolutely. Did he learn how to take those shots and stay in the fight? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Is he still asking questions, being at the level of the streets?

SPEAKER_05 39:25

He's still asking questions, and I still talk to him about those things. Because there was a point in his life that he wasn't that prepared mentally and physically to take those shots. But if you watch him how he grew, he's been knocked out before. And trust me, that puts a hole in your mind. That that there's something in there that how about if it happens now? That fear everybody has. You're a human being, you think about it. But how did he defeat that? I spoken to him about that. And he's a great student. That's what's different. He puts in the time. I've never seen anybody work like him. Armand, and the questions he asked, the the way he asked, the way he appreciates the coach, he wants you to work with him. He makes you want to work with him. That's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Do we think that it comes easy? It's like one, two, and everybody does.

SPEAKER_05 40:14

Everybody does. I have I've had so many parents thinking that their kid's gonna be the best in the world. But and then, you know, the kid that Edmund is still in the UFC and fighting, and um I've seen his dad maybe twice in my life. And he was in my gym for 10 years. I spent money, took him to travel all over the world to uh sorry, United States to compete in all boxing competitions. I put a coach with him because I had Rhonda at that time, of course, he was training with Rhonda, but I put him in the right places, you know, cornering professional fighters to see it, you know, to grow from it. So if he didn't do that, he couldn't fight at that age, young like that at that level. I think it's what your eye sees to and what you start believing in also. So all that matters. Yeah? Why is like in Barcelona the great kids come out from La Messi Club, Messi, and then you have La Miniamal right now? Because they've seen the older ones play that good. They see it. Once you see it, your belief is more. In my gym, I had Victor Cheny and Vannes Marrosin, US Olympian, World Title, this, Azad Hovanician, Gabriel Tolmajan, Art Hovanician. These guys are all number one ranked boxers, top ten in the world, world title contenders, and then Rhonda comes in. And then boom, Edmund comes in. Why? Because they believe it. And then I would say it, I would say, look at Vic. He doesn't have the best balance in the world. The guy's a three-weight division champion, 10-time world champion. You could do it too. Yeah, coach, I'm gonna do it. That gives them the confidence. So they see that. Some parents take him to gyms and they've never had a professional fighter, and then they brag about their kid, like, or they're gonna go to one one incident I had lately, like not an incident. Some parents saying my kid's gonna go to uh Penn State wrestling, and Penn State's number one wrestling team in the world, I would say, not even the United States. They have Olympic champions and all this division one wrestling, and the kid's wrestling in Hoover High School. It's a sixth division wrestling, and he's not even winning that competition. And it's the last year. It's like 12th grade, and you're telling me that. I'm like, do you want me to like tell you that it's there's not even 0.00001% chance that happens, or do you want me to tell you that you're an idiot?

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Well, and when you do when you tell them the truth, they say you're the bad one.

SPEAKER_05 42:28

Yeah, I can't do that, but and then I can't say a bad word or say, like, that's not reasonable, you're being like delusional or whatever. I'm like, I hope, but please research what kind of athletes Nebraska is, and that's a division six school that you're going into, and you haven't even won state championships.

unknown 42:44

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

Yeah, but there is. It's like, what do you do? Yeah, you know, you could just give them hope and you could say, just do your research. I wish you know, there is a podcast out there. I think our culture still is behind. I spoke to you Mov Sessian, you've interviewed. I said maybe we should do a podcast of explaining people, educate. Educate. That's all I want to do. I don't care if they I don't care if they listen. I don't care about the views, I don't care about anything. I just care about people to be real about it. When you speak to the Latinos, they know about boxing because they've had so many champions, they have so many TV interviews, you know. Chavez, this, that, they have their TV podcasts, whatever. Kids know what they're getting into. They wrestle, they don't go play basketball. God, I'm like tired of basketball, basketball. You guys have like 100,000 kids playing. Nobody's made it, please. Like, okay. Gary Chubichan, at least he was from an MMA gym. At least he was from an MMA gym, like his dad, you know, high stand MMA and professional athletes, you know, came from there. I was still happy. I was like, okay, G League, but that's G League, that's not NBA. Great, you know, great athlete. But that's one. We've had so many great soccer players and wrestlers, Olympic champions. They go and do something that is not you don't see Latinos playing basketball, right? They should maybe. They have one Latinos. Yeah, I we we do it. We always like to do it by what the education I think there's a little bit lack of education in sports. There's a lack of knowledge, but we try to become something that we see on TV and we think we could do it, but it's not like that. Like we've got to look at it real.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah, from what I think, it's like you need to educate the parents. Of course, we all love our kids very much more than anything on the earth. But we need to be realistic. Okay, your kid, maybe he's good at something. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 44:36

Art. Maybe yes, singing, yeah. Okay, so you don't ask advice from the trainer. That's it. And not every trainer.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Ah, the trainer doesn't know. The trainer doesn't know it better.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Because this is an issue too. Like when my son was playing soccer with I'm not gonna mention the names of the clubs, Armenian Club, and they don't have the licenses to play at the highest level because they're not allowed to. Europe probably spoke about this because they don't have MLS next. They don't. These licenses were given out 60 years ago, and the top clubs have it. You know, you have to be a professional club to have it. So they don't have it. And they tell the kids, oh, we're good, we're a good team, we're winning. And then they go to the state championships and they say we're a state champion. But the you have to take out that word. There's state championships. They make two of them in the United States so they could fool the parents. And now they say we're state champions. And then my son plays, and my brother's son plays in TFA, and they're the real state champion. So I'm like, you're not a state champion, but how do I explain to them? I'm like, your kid plays like the lowest tier with Armenian teams that they can't play in the higher teams. There's like five, six more higher levels. And when you watch those kids, they play like there's like little messies in there. And those are the real state champions. Basically, it's like a white belt competing with a black belt.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

Black belt.

SPEAKER_05 45:50

Black belt is the real champion, not the white belt. That's where you start from, but the goal is to win in the black belt divisions. So it's the same thing, but I can't explain this. They're like, no, we won the state championship. So I'm like, how do I do it? You don't even have the license to compete at there. You won't even be invited. But again, parents and coaches, I think some of them are not honest, and owners of the gyms are not honest because they look at it as a business. I wish they could be honest, and I wish they will learn to let go of great talent if they're not ready to coach for others to coach.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 46:23

If I can't make a champion, I will say leave. This coach will make you better. That's what I would do. I wouldn't say, oh, you've worked with us. Like, I hear it. There's a lot of kids. They're like, coach, they wanted us to play EA1. That's the highest level, and we're MLS next team picked us up. Like you're a son, play surf, right? And they went to surf, and all those coaches gathered up with the parents and try to make the kid look bad. He left us. It's like, bro, you're playing EA1. The kid is playing MLS next. He has a chance to get to MLS, which is the professional league. Let him play there. Why are you feeling bad? You should be happy.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

That's whole business. It's all about it.

SPEAKER_05 46:57

Yeah, but why would you do that? Like, you don't have that level. You want to keep the kid there so he won't grow? Like, what's the purpose of that? Or you think you could break him out from there too? Maybe that's a possibility too. But let the kid make the decision. Like the parent make the decision. We can't control everybody. We can't control everything. Even me, if you want to take the kid out, I'm ready. I'm fine. Because I don't want to be responsible of telling you stay here and then something happens to your kid, like my friend brain hemorrhage, and then what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Okay, but has it been like when you said this? Uh is there a case when you have like a brilliant kid, amazing one, and the parent wants to take them out?

SPEAKER_05 47:33

Yeah. What do you bring?

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I've had I just But you know, like for sure, you know that the next Armand's Argonne is out now.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

I swear I would let it go. No bad feeling at all. I would smile. I would be knowing that you do it. 100%. Even if I put 10 years into it, I would smile. 100%. Because I've been through the worst. And I'm not gonna let anybody tell me this happened because of you. There is no way. My like that will break me. This happened because of you. Like I'm not gonna something bad, meaning, you know, like have brain hemorrhage. Like that's really bad. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't want that to happen. That's why I don't want to tell any kid to fight. I don't want to talk about like competing, and I'm not gonna take them to those stupid tournaments everybody goes to and everybody wins medals. I'm not about that. Try to prove yourself in the gym, work hard, become a disciplined athlete, and then we'll worry about those medals. Everybody wants that motivation and that medals, but nobody thinks about the discipline athletes.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

When you do the discipline, the medals will come.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

That will come. Try to win a medal in my gym. Then you'll worry about winning a medal over there. My gym will be harder, trust me. That's what I tell them.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

There is a parent watching this episode right now that thinks their kid is the best, that thinks their kid needs to fight to become the next Star Monsaru candles. Um, but they don't know how to get their kid to I get a lot of that.

SPEAKER_05 48:54

From Armenia, I get phone calls. That's a great question. I get a lot of that. And I'm like, listen, keep working, find a coach again that has maybe connections to me, talks to me. Maybe the coach asks advice from me. I'll be like, I'm vouching for that coach. I've had a coach come from um Ukraine to me and work under me. And then he went to China, traveled with my fighters, and then now he's in France, he has a gym there, doing great. He had a world contender and he fought for the world title, Arnold, Korean kid and Korean and Ukrainian, beautiful looking kid, fought for the world title. And Abel learned and he came, he was open to learning boxing. And he went, you know, took him to Freddie Roach's gym. He learned and he became better. Maybe you should research what kind of a gym in Armenia, you know, talks to us or has connections that could bring the kid here. Because I get a lot of emails from Armenia, like parents. I get calls too, like at night. I'm like, the mom's like, my kid is so good, he's 6 and 0. I'm like, oh my God, I haven't seen the kid. But I believe it's good. But I believe it's good. Yeah. But I'm like, why don't you email me? Email me the fights. Let me see what I could do. And I'll give him an opportunity 100%. Some of them write messages like we're better than Edmund Shabazi. And you know, you train him from a young age, but we think we're better. I'm like, okay, like what do I say? Okay, you think you're better, good for you. What do I do? So, you know, I think um, again, being a little bit educated and knowing where to go and just building up slowly, not rushing into the UFC. I think, you know, having 10, 15 fights, over 10 fights, and then uh there's contender series. If you're young, think about the business aspect too. When you're, I think what my advice to the parents would be think about the business aspect. Like what kind of fighters does the UFC want if you want to get into the UFC, right? What does boxing want? We're Armenian, our culture is not that big. They have a Latino fighter, fight for the world title. Their 300 million views are a lot. So what do we have to do? As a trainer, I think, as a manager, I think. We have to be different. We have to get the attention of them. We have to dominate. We have to be like Armand. We have to do media, more media to get their attention. We have to do that. Okay, that's one step. Second step, we have to kill them, beat them better than anybody's beat them. In the ring, this means, not kill them really, but you know, kill them meaning in a fight. Victor Chinyan, prime example. Everybody they put in front of him, he said yes and he knocked them out. He said, I'm gonna knock you out, he knocked him out. Was he different? Yes. Did he get a lot of uh TV attention, a lot of media attention? Did he do what he's supposed to? Yes. Is he one of the best? Yes. So you want to be different. So think about the business aspect too, before you, you know, um, think about your son should be in there. It's a and and one thing you gotta understand, it's a long route. It's a long road.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

You are not going there in one in two.

SPEAKER_05 51:49

Not even in two. You in boxing, you need 10 years of fighting professional to be known. Ten years of fighting. In UFC, two, three years you could boom break out, do a jumping kick, and then the whole world talks about it. Yes. So now you need that like Sambo, combat, sambo world champion, Kabib, good wrestler, background. You need a background, right? You're right about that. So again, you need all those years. But once you turn pro, at least boom, boom, boom, six, seven, two, three good wins in the UFC, one good kick, one knee knockout, the whole world talks about it, which is, I think, not correct. But their media is so strong, they make you into a star. That's why their pay is low, and they say we make you into a star, make money elsewhere.

SPEAKER_04 52:30

From there, there you go.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

There you go. There you go. But boxing, 10 years, I don't care how good you are, nobody's gonna give you credit. So please, like when you think about a kid boxing, like it's a little bit more serious, it's a little bit more work.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

We started with Rhonda, and I want to end with Rhonda. Okay. If Rhonda was sitting in my place here right now, and she would ask you one question, um, something she has never asked you directly, what do you think it would be?

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Oh man, that's all right. I think she would ask a question that would emotionally touch me.

SPEAKER_05 53:11

And she would say, Are you were you really and are you still proud of me or were you happy for me? And I would hug her and say, Yes, I was. I think that's what she would do. Because everything else I think we did together. But she would make sure, because I know the not I don't want to say insecurity, but I know how she is. She would say, like, I finished even the fight last fight, I called you, you weren't in my corner before I said we're gonna do this together and finish it together. Are you still proud of me? Like, are you like happy for me? And the answer would be yes, and I would hug her. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 53:50

Thank you.