What We've Learned So Far
Women, wizened by experience, presence, and attention, gather to discuss topics of depth in a world deeply in need of softer, fiercer, clearer perspectives.
What We've Learned So Far
Healing
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What We've Learned So Far gathers a group of wise women around life's big questions and everyday experiences. We explore what we're learning about life, relationships, purpose, community, and what it means to be human in a rapidly changing world.
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In this episode our wise women explore Healing. And these are some of the questions we’ve posed for ourselves:
- What is healing?
- Is healing essential to our journeys? If so, what was the catalyst for that realization? Was that met with acceptance or resistance?
- How does one embrace healing without feeling broken?
- What healing modalities are available to us? What are the practicalities of healing?
- Are we ever fully healed? How would we know?
Our panel of wise women:
Our moderator for today's episode: Kay Eck kay@kayeck.com @kayeckwrites (IG) Kay Eck (FB) @kayeck1040 (YouTube)
Joan Advent joanadvent.com @joanadvent7171 (YT) @joan.advent (IG)
Meggan Riley: www.megganemily.com
Banya Lim
Video Production by Cyber Citrus Creative: https://www.instagram.com/cybercitruscreative/
Music and Performance by Keith Hill: https://www.instagram.com/khillcorp/
Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. This is what we've learned so far. Welcome everybody to the latest installment. We have a distinguished panel of guests as usual. And our topic today is healing. And as I was preparing, as usual, we tackle some really big topics. And I feel like this one in particular could, we could have five episodes really, if we wanted to really dive deep into some of these modalities. But the important thing in the in the healing journey is just to get started. So let's do that. Let's um allow everybody to come on and introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about why you're here. Why are you participating in these panel chats? Uh Megan Emily, will you get us started?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um okay, I'm Megan. I'm Megan Emily Riley. Uh I'm in Arkansas. I know Kay from Illinois. So that is the most fundamental reason I am on these panel chats because I know Kay. Uh and I've I've been invited. I I choose to participate in them because I think they keep me very grounded. I think they actually have become a part of my healing, as do many of the any connection that we make, especially connection that is grounded uh with intentionality, mindfulness, consciousness. You know, we're we're trying to to have a certain type of conversation here and one that at its its very core at the least is mindful, right? And so I think that's why I show up to these panel chats because um while I'm not formally working right now, uh there's a little bit of influencer coming out of me, and I'm a very quiet influencer, I'm not really active. Um, but I mentioned last month that my my phone rings a lot and I get messages on the side a lot, and people ask me for my opinion quite a bit on things. And so I think that's why I'm pulled into a panel chat because uh the conversation is one that's authentic, uh hopefully when I'm participating, and I think that comes through.
SPEAKER_03So thank you so much. Banya, how about you? Um, about relating to healing and why I'm here. Yeah, why you're here and also who are you and where are you coming from?
SPEAKER_00Uh I am an acupuncturist and energy coach in Sedona, Arizona. And um, I'm here to because I heard the topic about healing, because I think my whole life is about healing, and what I do is healing my family, it's about figuring out how to heal the most effective way.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Vanya told me a fascinating story about the lineage of acupuncture in her family, and it's actually quite funny. Uh, they're like the reluctant uh acupuncturists. Joan, how about you?
SPEAKER_02I would love to hear that. Um, I am Joan Advent, and I'm in Virginia in the Richmond area. And I choose to participate in these panel chats in part because I find uh as we come together and we speak and we share our truth and our wisdom, the synthesis and the catalytic nature of or synergistic nature of what happens is it's like new higher wisdom is expressed or is born through that give and take and through that kind of response to what is coming through each of us. So that actually happens to be something I love and I'm passionate about. So I love to enter into conversation with other wise women and beings, men as well. And in terms of healing, it's such a broad topic and something that in a very different way, I think I too have dedicated my life to, not not in the way that Banya has, but it it it feels so important and integral to our humanity to know that healing is possible. And so I wanted to be here for this.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm Kay Eck, and I'm also here in Sedona, and uh I come to the panel chats because one for so many reasons, but one is that I get so much out of them from hearing other people's point of views and tricks and uh insights, and I always walk away feeling more expansive. And also I feel um, and I I think this is sort of a a matter of human nature, is that when you when you have gained a certain level of insight or wisdom or skill, there's this draw to help this your fellow man. And I've always said that you don't need to help everybody, you really just need to help the person who's on the rung beneath you, and the person on the rung ahead of you is gonna help you, and that way we all kind of move um together. And another reason that I'm here is because this path of um becoming a divine human on earth at this time, it's just such a big journey. And I'm here, I'm just here to help. And I think all of us can say, like, we're just we just have this heart desire to help other human beings, our our family of humanity um through this time. So um let's get started. So, Megan, I want to start with you, and I would like for you to set the stage for us a little bit and tell us what we're talking about when we're talking about healing. I feel like that's the biggest question of all.
SPEAKER_01Here we go. So, healing, right? Uh sort of knee-jerk response, right? What comes to mind first? Healing of the body, healing of the the psyche, healing of mental health, and and and keep using the same word over and over again, healing. So, what does it mean? To me, when when we are talking about healing, we're talking about seeking some sort of balance in in vitality. And in in my tradition, the tradition that I I know most intimately, which is the yogic system, the sacred science of yoga, there's a principle of sattva. And sattva is is is the the ideal composition of all the things, the spiritual body, the physical body, the mental body. All sheets, all layers of our being are in this vital balance state. And it is neither tamasak, which is a very kind of tired or lethargic state, or rajastic, which is either burning too hot or expanding too much energy. And so the the work of healing is always to try and come to that sattvic state, that sattvic state of balance. Um, and so for some of us, healing is um easily, most easily accessed through the body. For some of us, it's through the intellect, for some of us, it's through the spiritual realm. Um, but I think it's it's it's that process that comes in many, many expressions. There's many um mediums, right? Many crafts, even many belief systems um that um that create the environment or platform for healing. So for me, it's about that sattva, that sattvic state that we are neither too woo or too.
SPEAKER_03Balance, balance. That's lovely. Um, Banya, can you talk a little bit about um how you define healing and um whether that has changed for you over time, like the last five years, maybe the last 10 years, how you define healing?
SPEAKER_00You know, when it comes to healing, I mean, I'm doing healing on other people with physically many different levels, but I think true healing really starts with yourself. Um, with me, me, myself going through my own stuff is where I think where a lot of things opens up because of me going through like a depression, like going through physical ailments when I was young, opened me up to uh figuring things out, and through that I got I got to figure, I really got to figure some of some of the things out because I had to heal myself, and I think that this is why some of the things that I have figured out, I can really share with the people because I know it's possible because it happened to me, you know. Um and so like beginning of my practice, so many of the people who came to me were had a condition like exactly what I had, and I knew exactly what to do, and then then I hit a I hit a certain level, like that wasn't enough. There's something more, you know, we are we are body, mind, and soul, and I realized I was just focused on just the physical body, but you know, we are made out of these three levels, and also we are I really believe they were multidimensional. And unless we look at the the person on a on their level and healing body, mind, and soul, you're not really going down to the root of it. And and because of that, because this is how I got end up creating my program called She Mastery System to really go down to the level of energetic level, emotional level, physical level, mental level, on unconscious level to heal on a look at the deeper part of the person. Um, so I feel like I'm doing all of it now, and it feels right, and I feel I feel like this is what my mother was trying to do, this is what my great-grandfather was trying to do, but they were they didn't have a name for it back then. But I feel like I'm putting all the pieces together finally.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love that so much. And I thank you so much for bringing to light the fact that healing, we're usually placed on the healing journey when we're in some sort of vice. You know, there's some kind of pressure, whether it's physical or mental or emotional or spiritual. And that it's almost like that's part of the process. And it and so it's a normal, it's a normal part of the process. But what I think is interesting about acupuncture is I feel that it is the one of the very first um sort of alternative or eastern modalities, healing modalities that was accepted by the mainstream. And I I think it was it's so it's been kind of like a doorway. So do you feel that for your clients, acupuncture has been a doorway from the physical to the deeper levels of spiritual?
SPEAKER_00And yes, absolutely. Even to these days, some of my clients are like, I have no idea what you're doing, I don't know why it's working, and I don't even know half of the things that you're talking about, but I know it works, and that's why I'm here. Even on a scientific level, scientific in order for anything to prove in scientifically, you have to be able, it has to be uh uh replicable, replicable. But acupuncture couldn't do that. And so with with the with the with the control group, the treatment group, there has to be results have to be come up consistently. So scientifically, they had a hard time proving this. Only way they got accept start proving in America, in California, in a short story, in the court case happened, and and then acupuncture showed up, and acupuncture is like, I cannot show, I cannot explain to you scientifically this is how it works, but if you have any pain, if anybody has pain here, raise your hand, including the judge raised their hands. So he go get he went around and gave them acupuncture, and they start having and they started you know, the pain went away. And at the end, like we don't know how what it is, but it worked for us, so we're gonna let this pass. This was like, I don't know, 70, 80 years ago.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that's fascinating. I love that. I can vouch for that because I first met you when I came to see you for pain that I was having in my shoulder and my arm and my finger. And um I ended up experiencing healing, like a huge releases in areas that I were completely unrelated to to the uh the pain that I was experiencing, that would obviously needed because it happened. So, so yeah. Um, Joan, can you talk a little bit about when you first realized that healing would be a part of your journey? And then I have a follow-up question to that. I mean, really, it's like what was the catalyst? What was what was in the vice?
SPEAKER_02Well, I know I've spoken to this before. Uh, my my own journey with addiction and recovery, and I actually grew up in a family where addiction was present, and my father started into recovery when I was quite young. So I do consider that a form of healing and a choice for healing. So, in a way, I came up in a family that was oriented towards that type of healing experience and what I would call both relational healing, because a component of addiction often impacts the family and certainly impacts us, you know, physically, emotionally, spiritually, psychically. So it was as early as I can remember that that I was in the vice, and there was this particular form of healing that was recognized and that my family was pursuing. Um, and then of course there are certainly things beyond that um as well. Many things beyond that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So interesting that this was such a fundamental part of your life from the from day one. I'm interested how your healing journey uh unfolded in terms of you know this feeling of brokenness. I really want to explore like this relationship between the healing journey and this feeling of brokenness. Can you speak to that?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I can. Absolutely. And for me, you know, I've heard both Megan's and Vanya's thoughts and wisdom around what healing is. And for me, it's encapsulated in the word wholeness. So that restoration to a sense of wholeness. And to the extent that any of us feels broken in any fashion. Um as I said at the beginning, the recognition that there's something beyond this, you know, there's something beyond the brokenness that there can be a restoration of um full health or a restoration of wholeness feels key. And relatively recently, I because I have a dog who clearly likes to use her voice and and has uh nervous system challenges, I learned about uh the Tellington Touch model, which I I don't know if any of you are familiar with. It's uh a hands-on model that was created by a woman named Linda Tellington initially for horses, but it has since come to be used on other animals and on people as well. But the premise of it, the whole premise of it is that um it's working with the tissues of the body in a very particular way, very simple way, but it is the belief that our systems know that state of wellness and wholeness, and they hold that. And while there might be like this overlay or this patterning related to the brokenness, that it really is the return to the innate wholeness that exists.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, I I can relate to that so much because I was gonna say that for my whole life I thought there was something wrong with me, and which is another way of saying that I was broken in some way. And I came to realize somewhat later is that I was just a seeker. I was just the seeker of this wholeness, and I and something in me knew that what whatever state I was in was a stop on the way to something better. And um it wasn't until I just accepted that fundamental aspect of being human as this path to wholeness, then you know, the whatever you're seeking to heal doesn't um doesn't feel like an obstacle. It's it's like a it's like a stepping stone to that to that wholeness. So that's beautiful. Thank you so much. Um Megan, um, I'm I'm like dying to get into like the actual modalities, but I want to ask you first, um if you feel like healing is required for for human beings, each human being.
SPEAKER_01The word required is so wonderful here. Um I mean, I I may ride the coattails uh from Joan saying, like using the word wholeness, for me, a similar word comes to mind, oneness, right? And it's been challenged lately. I've had a lifelong belief that that oneness or unity is um uh uh sort of an end game for humanity, that there's gonna be this big oneness that takes place when we all somehow agree.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like the oneness festival is gonna be happening.
SPEAKER_01And we're one, right? And this is a this is really embedded in Tonsuk philosophy and yog in the yogic system that there's that we're separate until we're one, that there's duality until there's non-duality, right? And so when I was reflecting on this, I thought, well, yeah, it's gotta be required of everyone, or how are we all gonna get to this this state of oneness? So I I'm I'm I'm I'm struggling a little bit with this because some of my recent philosophical um uh curiosities have brought me into into sort of new playing fields where I would. Say no. It is not required of everyone because that is not everyone's a soul purpose, soul contract. Um, but you know, it brings me to the Sufi saying it says, those who are asleep, let them sleep. And this just comes to me over and over again. And it's like, how much of the healing time that I spend on earth will be trying to get those who need to heal to heal, right? Like convincing them to heal, convincing them to do the work. It's it's this this pilgrimage that takes place that sparks from within. And it is a fruitless effort to try and invite people, right, onto the onto the healing boat. And I just think um that it's not required of everyone, because we are one already. And and we will we will carry some of this. Those of us who have healed, that's part of our purpose is to carry some of it. So I know I'm not like laser focused on answering this, but that's because very recently this idea of what's required to be one and to experience this wholeness in in our humanity. Um, I don't, I don't think it has to include everybody, which sounds a little mean, but it's not. It's not at all. It's not mean.
SPEAKER_03I agree. I think it's really interesting that um I don't just in my own experience, I there's something, there's something happening by which each of us healing ourselves heals the field. And um, if you think about your children, my children are far more, they came in more healed than than I was. And a healed, and then I had to go on my healing journey, and their their children will be more healed than them. So we are collectively contributing to this overall healing. And this speaks to your point, Banya, that the the healing has to come from within. If you want to be a healer, you have to heal yourself, and that creates a field into which your your clients can, you know, enjoy the fruits of that too. It's it's it's really very interesting. So, Banya, can you speak a little bit to um mode? I want to get into the modalities because it's fun. And I have a list that's like so long I couldn't fit it in a page of all the modalities I've tried. And I actually made a Facebook post about it a couple of years ago, how ridiculous it was. Um, but Banya, what what is what started you out on the modality merry-go-round and and how have you progressed? Like tell us your experiences with a few modalities.
SPEAKER_00I really I really like what Megan addressed. It doesn't require everyone, but you eventually it is required. It's like a hundred and one monkey phenomenon. Like eventually, when we reach a critical mass, it's gonna be affecting everything else. So ultimately, all main work we have to do is just us internally, because outside is just being a mirror image of what's going on in here, right? So ultimately we just have to work on ourselves. Um, but as far as modality or work that I do, is I think there are the two basic pillars. One is that one is that understanding that our body is very body is intelligent. It's intelligent, intuitive, and instinctive. Under understanding that is very important, knowing that there's a powerful wisdom that resides within within our body. I think the main problem is that in our society, we have we don't we haven't taught that way. We haven't taught since we're young that how powerful we are, how powerful our body, bodies are, and how powerful, especially women's bodies are. And it has been kind of suppressed, and I haven't had we haven't learned that way. So we have to relearn to know that there's intelligence within our body, and there's wisdom within within our body, we can be able to tap into. And the second part is also powerful, is that everything that occurs in our bodies, and also everything that we are going through in our body, especially one that's triggering us, are the gateways to our soul, gateways to where we need to go. And we just have to get past that area of healing that we and it's our soul's way of almost screaming, like, come come back, come back in here. But we don't know that sometimes it could be pain on your body, it could be sometimes breast cancer, it could be a lot of different things, and or it could be just emotionally, emotionally when we get triggered. When your husband does something, you get triggered, you don't know, you have no idea. But that is also a gateway to where we need to go. It's not an area that we have to avoid or suppress, or even try to get rid of it, or even think that that shouldn't be there. You have to look straight square in our eyes, then you'll figure you'll find that oh, actually, that is what has been thrown from our soul to look at to come back home. So there are two pillars wisdom of the body and everything, understanding and accepting that everything in the happening in the body in our lives are the gateway to us.
SPEAKER_03I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you. Um, so do you want to talk a little bit about some modalities that you have that have been effective for you?
SPEAKER_00Well, for me and for a lot of people, it could be okay, always good to start with whatever you're dealing with. Okay, let's say headache, let's say um anxiety, or let's say anger, whatever that's predominantly occupying your energy, let's start with that. And there is always a narrative behind that energy. Let's say your husband is triggering you, and what is it what is the narrative behind that energy? It could be, for example, he he doesn't think I am good enough. Or or thinking that I don't feel I'm good enough. But that's underneath it uh, and as soon as you said that, or as soon as you acknowledge that, you can feel it in your body. And of course, when you have ailments and pain, if you have you your body's always telling you where where it is, so everything that's uh triggering in our life has a zip code in our body. And instead of as soon as as long as we don't do four things, we can actually work through it. What are the four things? When you don't identify with it, when you don't judge it, when you don't suppress it, when you don't when you when you don't try to get rid of it, you can be able to work through it. But oftentimes we do one of these, or maybe sometimes we do all of it. And when you do any of the four things, we give power to that energy. So when you let go of all of this and you be present, you work, you you look at it, you can find the zip code, and you go go through it, go deeper inside, and you you can be able to see where that came from, where it was originally from, where's the story behind it. Oftentimes it came from a long time ago. And when you be present and you look at it, give it a space and allow in your body, and not doing any of this, it will start to dissolve. So crazy as it sounds, it already starts to dissolve. Because it only wanted its tension, it only wanted our acknowledgement, it only wanted our awareness about it. And also there's other other deeper things, work that you do. And then after all this, you will find that energy behind opposite of this exists within your body. Let's say, I don't, I am not good enough, was there, and when you say I am good enough, I am good, or it could be any I am powerful, as soon as you say it, you can also find that in your body. There is a vocation, there is a zip code for that too. And you let the two parts communicate, you let the two parts start having dialogue within you as a for first person. It's so amazing and so powerful when people actually start having dialogue within themselves. It's almost like they go into that, like that's like an innocent child place. Because it often started when we are quite young, not always, but oftentimes, it just wanted to look at it. You just wanted, and oftentimes it comes down to two things. It's the the energy that blockages, it's often started with the two things. One not feeling safe, two, not feeling loved, one or the other. Sometimes other things oftentimes it comes to that. So when they start having dialogue, the part that have a pain start to receive that when they start to receive it and give it a space, it's amazing how transformation happened on a physical level, emotional level, and energy level.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I I feel like I should send you $150. Um but what I think that you're saying is it is like the the number one modality for any of us is this deep self-reflection and and holding space for our experience of whatever it is. And I think that that's free. You know, you don't need anybody to um to help you with that. And that's that, as you say, can solve so many problems. I have found that to be true in my own life too. And the application of love. Love, love, love. Like I feel like that's really the only healing modality you need is the ability to identify what's going on and loving it. Megan, um, can you please talk a little bit about modality? Thank you so much, Banya. Um, about modalities that you have used in your life and what has worked for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll uh I'll be I'll be somewhat literal um because I reflected on this prior and it's kind of come into these like these like little separate little, they're all a roller coaster. Every modality is a roller coaster. Let me begin with that. But I have several little roller coaster carts that I've stepped into. And the the first one I remember, you know, Joan spoke about childhood, and the first thing I remember was actually going to a healer in a Catholic church. Father Dennis Kelleher came from New York and he put his hands on people and they hit the ground. And I was never a skeptic because I would get up there and never once did he touch me because I was already on the ground just as he approached me. Like I felt the spirit, I didn't know what was happening, it was moving through me. So I already knew I experienced like the healing of the Holy Spirit. Technically, I didn't like fully understand or resonate, but this my you know, my mom was speaking in tongues in the back of the church, and you know, there was a lot going on, right? So I had a very literal like healing initiation um in the Catholic Church. And so that was kind of the first phase. I remember when I started discovering my own healing gifts, so to say, um, I've mentioned this book before, The Secret Garden was a book I was reading when we did a panel chat. That book changed my life. It gave me permission to talk to animals, which I already subconsciously knew I could do. And so a great deal of healing has uh for me has come through animal empathy and animal communication. And most of that has been self-appl self-applicable. Like I heal myself with animal wisdom. And that kind of like then I like moved religion out and I brought in service. Like I and another panel chat that we've had is on service, and I replaced religion, formal religion, with service to others, and that healed me. Um and I knew that I knew it was, it was, I didn't even know what was broken, but it was this like service part of me. I needed to be there for others. And then I moved towards nature, and then I started like, you know, the hiking and the biking and the being outdoors, and that was healing me. All of this while I was very vital. I've had seasonal allergies my whole life, but I haven't had many other physical ailments that just pound on me, right? Poke at me, right? That poking that Banya uh talks about. And then I discovered yoga. And so this was like a whole different like roller coaster ride altogether. Like I walked across the amusement park, and like all of these other things to me were really like almost worldly in a way, animals and da-da-da. But like when I found yoga, um, that brought in a spiritual component that quickly moved me into the self-love work. And when I was 16, I became vegetarian, but 10 years ago, nine years ago, I became vegan. So food as a modality to heal what now, now that I'm 50, I got some physical things, right, that I'm working on. And over and over and over again, food, now herbs, right? Like another layer of you know what you eat, you become kind of stuff. And that's kind of been the modalities. And I think what has worked for me um of late is only going to to I I I I minimize the healing. I try to just be neutral. I try to let my body, what Banya was talking about, figure everything it out it can out on its own with time and breath and presence and a lot of patience because the body does need a little time to identify, to work it out, right? To poke at you, to to to communicate with you. Like, how can you heal something right away when you haven't communicated yet with the with the thing that's poking at you? So a little bit literal, um, but I'd say right now it's it's trying to let my body do go through its natural processes. And then if I have to go to the infrared sauna, or then if I need to do a three-day juice cleanse, or then if I need, you know, um to go get Reiki, to like, I need someone else to help me, you know, like move it out of me. Um, and I I'm not afraid to go on on um service tour. We have so many friends, and it's so wonderful that we aren't, we're still kind of weirdos. That's fine. I want to hold on to that badge forever, but it's it's it's very mainstream. We can through the mainstream access so many healers now that aren't hiding, that aren't quiet, that aren't um pretending that they're not doing what they're doing behind closed doors, and that's a wonderful, liberated world we we have now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You you you bring to mind something I hadn't thought of before. And if if the body has the innate intelligence to heal itself, is that also true for the spirit or the mind? Um, what does that look like? I feel like Banya might have something to say about that. So I I noticed a slight nod. Banya, do you have anything to say about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a very basic of oriented medicine acupuncture rule by yin and yang theory and five element theory. Five element theory is metal, water, wood, and so on. And based on that, there's a basic five organs and related to also five organs, yin and yang, and there each one of them has emotion. So there's a sadness, sorrow, uh fear, anger, and so on. So when we repeatedly having certain emotion, it will start creating blockages in the meridian system or occupation points, and there are 365 acupuncture points in the body. There are three major 365 points, and each point is related to each day in a year, and and so on. Sometimes I I prescribe based on your date of birth birth because the it can be prescribed based on i ching. But aside from that, any everything that is happening in our body is indicator of some sort, and it's calling it's constantly telling us based on bioelement, wood's uh direction is east, and that's base of base of a feng shui. And uh metal uh organ is lung and its uh direction is west. Let's go with the example with the wood. Wood's organ is liver and gallbladder, and their emotion is anger. When you have a repeated uh episode of anger, you will end up damaging your liver and gallbladder, and it occurs in the side of the body. And you know, when you listen to your body, when you listen to the wisdom of the body, it can happen many different ways. And one of the ways could be direction in your house, it could be the taste, it could be the color. For example, you you don't know why, you just crave sour-tasting food. That's an indication of relationship to liver and gallbladder, an emotion of anger. Your body's way of like trying to heal that, heal yourself. And when you become in tune in your body, when you listen, you you don't know why, but you just follow that instinct and intuition. And also liver gallbladder wood's color is green. I don't know if you ever experienced wake-up in the morning, you don't know why you get drawn to certain type of shirt or color you don't normally wear. Sometimes that's your body's wisdom telling you that would be the most harmonizing color for you to wear to create healing for your body. And and and one of the funny examples is that someone, someone who has like a liver gallbladder issue, their east side of the house is always messy. So by just cleaning that out, sometimes you can also feel the lightness in your body. But that's just one example. And if you want to look into a little bit more, go to Google, look, look for five element charts based on acupuncture. There are a whole bunch of them.
SPEAKER_03Okay, fantastic. There's a free resource for you. Megan's writing that down. Um, Joan, can you talk to us a little bit about modalities that you have found to be effective and the ones that have stayed with you?
SPEAKER_02Yes. So the ones, well, first of all, I want to speak to what Banya mentioned back at the beginning about the modalities, that aspect of love and that sense of kind of connecting the place of resource with the po the place that's disconnected from resource. That's the way I would articulate it. And I believe that in many ways, that's the root of so many modalities of healing, you know, really is encapsulated by that. And for me personally, I I have experienced a lot of trauma in my life. And so working with the nervous system through whether modalities like somatic experiencing or polyvagal healing work, uh, things that are more hands-on or or I have responded well to uh to things where I'm physically moving energy. And I I have worked a lot with um acupuncture as well for general health and well-being and to address uh issues as they come up. But for me, intervening through the body as opposed to I have participated in receiving energy, various kinds of energy medicine. And those can and have been useful, but the thing that I always come back to is this the somatic portal of you know kind of telegraphing out to all the aspects, whether it's to the spiritual aspect, the emotional aspect, the relational aspect. Because I guess for me, my nervous system has been a key uh zip code, as Bonnie would say, or for what I have needed, um for what I've needed strengthening or resourcing again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Um, do you how do you know when um a particular modality, one, is right for you, and two, that it has taken you as far as it can? How do you suss that out?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think uh intuition and discernment are very critical elements uh to cultivate and to have uh in terms of determining that. And there are times when I have felt drawn to a particular person or modality for a short time or for quite a long time. There are many modalities as someone who was clinically trained as a social worker and a spiritual guide. There's a whole host of modalities that I have learned and practiced, and so there might be the what's the flavor of the day. Um so sometimes it's like what's trending, but really what has been most important is listening to my inner wisdom and what's the sense of I I've just always had the sense of knowing like this this is right for me or this is what I need on some level. I would know that. And and so learning to trust that, and uh I would say that when I have engaged in um situations seeking healing that were no longer healing, the the feedback would be pretty almost immediate. I mean, I could feel it in my body, like this this isn't right or this isn't working for me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I I think that that that piece of trusting your intuition and that your your body and your senses and your heart are always going to be leading you in the right direction. And you know, the number one place to seek is within is yourself as your own healer. But as you say, sometimes um, and and Megan referred to this, that sometimes their support is um is necessary and available, and there are endless, endless numbers of modalities. And I want to list some of those in the in the comments. So I think that what's important for people who are just kind of starting out on this journey is to know that nothing has the power to override your power. And so you you can there's nothing that you know can happen to you that you can't reverse or heal from, or you know, it's um you're in charge and you'll always be in charge of that. Um, for me personally, um, I would say at this point in my my well, I'll give a great example of my whole trajectory at this point, is that I went to I like I was having a problem with my skin. It was just like looking just bad. And I went to um get a facial and her she said, you need to stop using products. She's like, stop everything. And so I did, I stopped everything, and my skin recovered. Like it was like too much. And so we'll we'll know, you know, when you when I've had too many massages, my body knows. When I've had, you know, I don't do a lot of um, you know, energy healing with other people anymore, um, because I have gotten to this point where I'm just sort of like letting everything happen. I'm not taking supplements, I'm not seeking outside. But two things I want to mention. One for me is massage. I massage is just a critical part of my self-care, especially after travel. I feel like it helps me, or any kind of like big event that I've been to or a big experience that I've had helps me to sort of settle the energy, you know, in my body and the zip codes that it's supposed to be in. And then the other one for me is I I combined both I combine both meditation and prayer, which I think are sort of overlooked a little bit as healing modalities. But to me, this is it's prayer is speaking and meditation is listening. And whether I'm listening to God or my higher self or wherever it's coming from, there's this there's this knowing that there's a certain truth to what you're experiencing, and and that can be trusted. So that's and you're developing a relationship with this source of advice and guidance that is infallible typically. So um that's kind of my feel. Um Megan, I think you spoke to this earlier, but is there an end to the healing journey? And if so, what is it? What does it look like?
SPEAKER_01Death. Um and then being born in onto a new plane. Um I mean, in my experience, no. When you know, uh just just the air we breathe gives us a constant um need for for healing, right? Um I think in terms of an an attitude, yes, there can be an end where where the attitude can dictate an acceptance of being never not broken, right? So I turned to uh uh a Hindu goddess, a deity um who really, really helped me when I was in the the thick of my yoga teacher training. I had several injuries. Um, and I my ego was freaking out because there was so much of the asana, the physical portion I couldn't actually participate in. I had like a shoulder rotator injury, for example, right? Um and I was introduced to this goddess, Akiland Deshvari, and she her name translates to um never not broken, which is a double negative. Her name is broken. There's all this symbolism that I won't get into, um, but she was she was incredibly inspiring to me at the time because it gives us permission um to accept that a human state, if we're is you know, we will over and over and over again be faced with our brokenness. And whether it's something that returns over and over again, like to a to a to a kidney or an organ where we're working on a chronic thing, um, or uh one type of our brokenness just rolls into the next, uh, I think it would be very odd and interesting and perhaps a little boring to live in a perfect state of wellness at all times. How could I come up with a remedy to heal strep throat if I myself didn't get strep throat, right? It was so important for me to battle with my throat all those years because people call me now and they don't take antibiotics, they take my remedy. And I had to to learn to heal from that myself in order to be able to pass on that same wisdom to others, which each of us have touched upon. So um I think, in terms of literally um being, you know, being completely healed, is there an end? No, but in terms of the attitude, I think there's one of acceptance where where we might not feel like each of these little ailments is something that is scary, right? So might I just talk about fear? And I'm not gonna talk about it much, but if we can be at a place where we need healing, but we're not in a fearful place, we have come to the end, perhaps there. Because if we can be without fear, just what happened to you when the pandemic was announced? What happened to you when the vaccine was announced? Were you in fear, or were you like, I got this? And everyone was like, How do you got this? How do you got this? You're like, because I kick your strep throat. I've got I've got all this knowledge, I've been here, my body knows if I'm not scared, you know, what it what is, you know, what is what what's needed, you know, if I'm not scared, I can heal anything almost.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, I think that um that the um coming to terms with the cycle of life, um, the acceptance of death could be the panacea of all illness. And so that could be your most potent modality for sure. I I know that's played a big part in my healing too. And it and it varies, you know, so it comes and goes. Sometimes I, you know, I'm fearful, and some most of the time I'm not. Um, I want to um, thank you, Megan. I want to ask everybody one last question here, and um it's about you know, kind of uh carrying along on this um subject of whether we actually achieve full wholeness and wellness. Um how do we on that journey, how do we keep from becoming discouraged? And I'll let Banya begin.
SPEAKER_00I think we are evolving every day on uh what what our idea of wholeness is. And as we evolve to look at what that wholeness and perfection is, um it's ever ever continuing. And seeing the perfection and wholeness as who we are, I think that's I think that's the that's what we're learning throughout our life. Because we already are. But I I think our understanding of that is evolving and changing and growing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, that's that's beautiful. Thank you so much, John. How do you keep from being discouraged on this journey? Because it it sucks to be sick. It's awful. It sucks to be in pain, it's terrible.
SPEAKER_02It is it is so many things. I'm thinking of uh back injury I had in my twenties uh as a result of an accident that and the pain was so demoralizing. And I think of an injury I had 10 years ago where I tore two ligaments, and the doctor said uh the traditional Western medicine doctor told me that it would never be repaired, you know, it was irreparable. And dipping into those moments of like, is this it? Like, is this as good as it's gonna get? You know, do I do I have to live with this long-term limitation? We'll say. Um and and again, maybe that's flawed or some, you know, in some ways keeps me in some sense of distortion. But it works for me. So I I think it varies on on what works for each of us. For some people it's acceptance, for some people it's activating that place of of the fight. Like I'm not gonna tolerate that. And I do think that ultimately uh the the place of faith and of the belief that whatever's happening is not happening to me, but for me, and remembering that and living from the wisdom of that and being willing to feel whatever emotions I might have in the current state of about what is happening for me. So I'll stop at that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much, Megan. For me, what I think what's helped me from remaining dis or from becoming discouraged is that I know that sometimes it's my turn and sometimes it's other people's turn to do the healing. Sometimes it's my turn to offer healing, sometimes it's my turn to receive healing. And as long as I keep my finger on that pulse, when I need healing, it's not my turn to be the healer. I can always come back in to circles like this. And when we are having conversations like this and we're we're destigmatizing some of these um, you know, uh woo-woo types of you know, healing modalities that the the general public might have once thought of. Now we have the freedom to really um explore our bodies, explore different modalities. I so I I just come back to that original statement. I don't always have to be healed. I don't always have to be the healer. I I'm not discouraged because I uh can call, yeah, I can call Banyan if I need acupuncture. I'm not discouraged because I can call my sister's circle if I need to talk out a dream that I had that disturbed me. I can I can do so many things to receive the healing too. And that's really encouraging to me that there's so many masters out there that I don't need to learn it all. I don't need to know it all. My mastery is my mastery, and if we have community and connection, then you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I I think you you bring up something important in that it it's okay to be discouraged, it's natural to be discouraged. I lived with uh I'm I'm almost a year free of a four-year period of severe chronic pain that I also thought I might have to live with for the rest of my life. And I was very discouraged. I tried everything, absolutely everything that you can imagine. And I was lay on the floor screaming at God. And finally, I'm not saying it was that God wasn't speaking to me all along, but he he she it gave me an answer that I was not expecting. And I don't think that I was listening. I think I heard it before, but I wasn't listening because it wasn't what I thought I should be doing. So my answer, he screamed to me, go to South Bend Orthopedics. And I ended up going there and I picked a doctor, he ended up being a hand specialist, and I had surgery, and that was that. And so sometimes these alternative therapies are not what we need. Sometimes we need some traditional things, and we just have to remain open to what it is that our bodies are telling us and what you know the wisdom is telling us. So I want to thank you all so much for being here for this important discussion. And um, I hope everybody out in Facebook and YouTube land benefits in some way from this conversation. And we'll be back next month. Megan's going to lead us on a journey into dreamland. So that should be fun. I'm excited about that. Thank you all for participating. Bye, everybody.