The Beth Mead Show

Grace Campbell on Activism, Stand-Up, and Life with Eddie I The Beth Mead Show 07

• Beth Mead

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On Episode 7 of The Beth Mead Show, Beth is joined by comedian, writer & presenter Grace Campbell, and her Queen  spaniel Eddie. The pair bond over their canine soulmates, alongside discussing Grace’s upbringing beneath her famous political parents, getting kicked out of numerous classes for swearing, growing up as the funny friend, and her journey from there to becoming a successful comedian, activist and writer today. From pups to politics, and comedy to crows, this duo cover all.

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IG: @disgracecampbell 
TikTok: @disgracecampbell 


See Grace on tour: https://www.aegpresents.co.uk/event/grace-campbell/?

About the show

Relaxed, honest, and occasionally unexpected, The Beth Mead Show is your chance to see national treasure* and current Lioness, Beth Mead sits down with people she’s always wanted to talk to - from sport, entertainment and beyond.


Beth and her guests chat about their journeys. Because whether you win or lose, everyone has a story to tell.


Alongside the conversations we’ll be putting our guests to the test in a quiz of their life, and there’s a kick-up challenge to see who can top the Mead-erboard.


New full-length video episodes every Tuesday!


Welcome to The Beth Mead Show.

*Not our words — the words of Maisie Adam


Series Producer: Rachael Devine

Video Producer: Alfie Butler

Social Manager: Dani Maxwell

Social Media Editor: Sam McCann

Executive Producer: Simon Hunter

Show Consultant: Dave Masterman


Follow Beth Mead 

Instagram: ⁠@bethmead_⁠ 

TikTok: ⁠@bethmead⁠ 

X: ⁠@bmeado9⁠


Follow The Beth Mead Show 

Instagram: ⁠@thebethmeadshow⁠ 

TikTok: ⁠@thebethmeadshow⁠ 

YouTube: ⁠@thebethmeadshow⁠ 

X: ⁠@thebethmeadshow⁠


Produced by The Club Media Group

Get in touch: ⁠hello@clubmedia.co.uk⁠


For partnerships, sponsorship, media enquiries or guest opportunities: ⁠hello@thebethmeadshow.com⁠

SPEAKER_01

Hello and welcome to the Beth Made Show, where each week I'll be chatting to brilliant guests from the worlds of sport, entertainment, and beyond. Because whether you win or lose, everyone has a story to tell, and I'll be sitting down with some amazing people to help them tell theirs. Alongside the conversations, I'll be putting our guests to the test in a quiz of their life, and there's a kick-up challenge to see who can top the meter board. Expect honest conversations, lots of laughs, and a few surprises along the way. So let's get on with the show.

SPEAKER_03

So I think I want to live more. She's so sick of me. She's like, shut up. You're just talking about how many book deals you get offered. You got Tony Blair to get your dad to agree to having a dog. Me and my best friend did this campaign where we wrote on piece of paper, we were like nine, God is dog backwards. We just wrote it on those pieces of paper and we like hid it everywhere in my parents' house, like in the underwear drawer, in like the cupboards, in the fridge. And then my dad told Tony Blair, because he was working for him at the time, and Tony Blair said, I think that's like a really good initiative of her, and you should reward her for taking that campaigning initiative and get her a dog. So then they got me my childhood dog Molly, who never knew her name. There's a picture of me. I was a really chubby, like like as a chubby child. And there's a picture of me like looking like I've just eaten like one of the other kids in the battle class. Where did you have a child girl? I was attacked by a crow. Crows hold grudges. Do you know that for life? I didn't know that. Yeah, and they pass their grudges down to their children as well.

SPEAKER_02

So have you peed a crow off in a life?

SPEAKER_03

Maybe in a different life. It was such a shock because it came behind me and it was like stabbing me like that. And then I turned around and then it flew away, but I like properly made eye contact with it. And what do we think of Tottenham? What do you think of Tottenham?

SPEAKER_02

Welcome back to the Beth Mean Show. I have the pleasure of a special guest today who is very impressive, very funny. Your list of achievements are endless. You've written a book, you have done stand-up, you've made podcasts, you're an activist, and most of all, you're a dog mum. The best job of them all. I have the pleasure to welcome Grace Campbell to the pod.

SPEAKER_03

So Eddie's hair is like flying around. So Eddie, sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Eddie Eddie, yeah, Eddie's the main guest.

SPEAKER_03

She knows her name. Yeah. I hope so. My daughter dog didn't know her name till today she died. You never called her? We always did. She was just too stupid. She just never knew her name.

SPEAKER_02

And what type of dog was that?

SPEAKER_03

Same as Eddie, King Charles Spaniel. You just thought you'd stick down that route. But when Eddie was born, I said to the breeder, Can you s I knew she was going to be called Eddie? So like at a day older, I was like, Can you refer to this one as Eddie? So then when I picked her up, she already knew her name. Why Eddie? After Eddie from Abfab.

SPEAKER_02

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_03

She loves a champagne cork, Eddie. She plays fetch with it.

SPEAKER_02

So on my podcast, I give my guest a gift at the start of every show. So this is for you. It's for you. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um I'll let you open it first. You're gonna be appalled at how it unwraps. Oh. Are you planning on recycling the paper? No, no, you can throw it away.

SPEAKER_02

Starting to talk about crisps being served at parties, so we've got you the best. These are my favourite crisps. Hello, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Any any specific reason? Uh I think these are these lightly salted kettle chips, not sponsors. This is the perfect crisp. I just love salt. If I could live off of these off of crisps, it's all I would like.

SPEAKER_02

So if that was like your last meal.

SPEAKER_03

If it would sustain me nutritionally, I would just eat crisp.

SPEAKER_02

Plenty of carbs to be fair.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, just no like protein or vitamin C or anything.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. You're very welcome. Um Eddie, you're very welcome too. Maybe sneak one there. We both share the love of being dog mums. I am cocusing manual. You have the lovely Eddie. What's your dog's name? Miley. Miley, oh. But we spell it M-Y-L E. Oh, God. So we didn't go after Miley Cyrus. I was like, Miley Cyrus, I'm like, well, I've spelt it different for that reason. Right. But it was a long process. So I have when we got Miley, it was a very sudden decision that we wanted her. Every teammate I have possibly came round to the house that night and we were going over names, and I don't think it was a good idea because everybody who Oh, I like this one. No, I don't like that. It was an absolute pain. And then I don't actually remember who said Miley, and she responded.

SPEAKER_03

Oh.

SPEAKER_02

So it just felt like she chose her name.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, that's really cute.

SPEAKER_02

Considering we were not going to choose it that night. Everyone disagreed every time we got there. That's good to know. Oh, I feel like everyone said that, but that's really cute. So she chose her own name, technically.

SPEAKER_03

That's nice. Yeah, I mean, I think names are like uh well, baby, like my best friend was having a baby, and she wouldn't tell me what she was calling the baby, and I was like, that's super weird. And she was like, No, it's just because I don't want I don't want your opinion to affect my decision. Oh, okay. And I was like, Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_02

True.

SPEAKER_03

Because I feel like, yeah, if you make a face, if you make a face when they say the name, that's it. And no, I would just say I don't like it. Yeah, okay, straight down the middle, then literally. Okay, and did you like the other name? Great name. And then she's just had another baby named after me. Oh, really? Well, middle name Grace. So basically Lennon Grace is her name. Okay, so you just made that up then. It's a middle name. Lenny Grace. Yeah, I'm sort of double barreling it. Like, I'm gonna tell her that's her name. Fair enough. Do you have a favourite thing about being a dog mum? Someone said to me today, um, dog, your relationship with a dog is the best way to learn how a secure relationship is supposed to feel like. And I keep thinking about that because I'm doing a lot of work at the moment on my anxious attachment style. I've got an I'm very anxiously attached to people in relationships, and um so I think Eddie is my most like safe creature in my life, and she was just sick, like really sick, a couple of weeks ago, and she was in hospital for six days, and it was awful, it was very life-altering realizing that she's not gonna be here for as long as I'm yeah, you said that earlier about it. I did, I'm so morbid. It's the weather, it's horrendous. The weather's not helping anymore today. What's your favourite thing about being a dog mum?

SPEAKER_02

I love when I've had the worst yeah coming back in and how excited they are when you're out through the door. Like they it's like they've not seen you in years. I know. I go out to the toilet and come back, and she does the same. Like it's the best thing ever. But she's a nightmare for eating sticks. Interesting. Yeah. Eddie eats snails. I think that's more interesting.

SPEAKER_03

Shell included, shell included.

SPEAKER_02

Shell included, fantastic.

SPEAKER_03

And how does that come out anywhere? Well, I have to fight them out of her mouth. Oh, she doesn't actually swallow them. Well, no, I mean if she could, she would, but that's why I have to guard her like constantly.

SPEAKER_02

I wonder what the snail attraction is.

SPEAKER_03

It's really odd. And someone said to me that you should pour chili oil on a snail, and then they associate the snail with chili oil.

SPEAKER_02

And you've got chili oil.

SPEAKER_03

But then she'd eat chili oil, which wouldn't be good for her stomach.

SPEAKER_02

True. My friend had a speed reward.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Speed reward.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, my friends call her baby snail.

SPEAKER_02

Really? Yeah. That's cute. How old is she?

SPEAKER_03

She's three.

SPEAKER_02

Three. Nice. Mine's three in September.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, her birthday's in September. Oh. 16th. 18th. Oh, close. She was born the day that the Queen died. So she's that's why she's your. So I was thinking of calling her Queen. I already wanted to call her Eddie, but then I was like, Queenie's quite a fab name. True. But then I was like Elizabeth then. I'm also like not a royalist. So fair enough.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Don't go against what you like then. Yeah. Um, you do have had some important people in your life. Um this is on the dog story still, but isn't true that you got Tony Blair to get your dad to agree to having a dog?

SPEAKER_03

Sort of. Basically, I wanted a dog um since I can remember having cognitive function. When I was a kid, I was obsessed with 101 Dalmatians. All I wore was 101 Dalmatian stuff. Like I used to have this swimming costume that was just 101 Darmation. I was obsessed with dogs. Like I love dogs, and I was like one of those toddlers who's like completely fascinated with dogs. I always wanted one. My dad had grown up with them. My mum had had cats, like as a like in her family. Um, and so then I decided one day I wanted a dog, and then me and my best friend did this like campaign, the one who's just named her baby after me, actually, did this campaign where we wrote on pieces of paper, we were like nine, uh Dog God is Dog Backwards. And we just wrote it on those pieces of paper and we like hid it everywhere in my parents' house, like in the underwear drawer, in like the cupboards in the fridge. God is Dog is God backwards. And then my dad told Tony Blair, because he was working for him at the time, and Tony Blair said, I think that's like really good initiative of her, and you should reward her for taking that campaigning initiative and get her a dog. So then they got me my chartered dog Molly, who never knew her name.

SPEAKER_02

Oh nice. Yeah I got bribed by my mum for my first dog. I always wanted a dog. I love the film Beethoven. Oh. They made they got a rabbit instead of a dog for me. So I had to call the rabbit Beethoven.

SPEAKER_04

Oh.

SPEAKER_02

And then I did ballet as a kid, didn't like it. Obviously, a footballer like to be sporty, but didn't like standing still and being told to do a demi-blue or whatever it's called. I used to get dragged out by the wrist every time and my mum went, if you don't complete this ballet exam, you will not get a dog. So I completed my ballet exam, passed it. And then you got a rabbit? No, the dog came then. Oh and then I had a dog and a rabbit. Oh, did so much though. Doctor Doolittle literally had them all. But I got pure bribed into getting a yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's a good way to incentivize the kid. I got kicked out of ballet because I used to swear too much.

SPEAKER_02

Swearing. Yeah, mine was just distracting others. Sounds about right for me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I used to I there's a picture of me. I was a really chubby, like like as a chubby child, and there's a picture of me like looking like I've just eaten like one of the other kids in the ballet class. I didn't have a child because I look like I'm about to like push this girl over, in fact. I hated ballet so much. I'm sorry, I appreciate people who are good at it. No, I mean it's I respect the art form, but it was so conformative for me. And I I hated anything. Now I know I have ADHD, but as a kid I hated anything where I had to be following any kind of structure. Yeah, couldn't do it. I got kicked out of everything athletics, swimming, for swearing. Was that people or the the instructor? More than adults. Okay, fair. And the other kids, but yeah, always for swearing. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you had a unique childhood. Um, obviously, your parents were famous and working with the Blairs. Um, can you remember the moment you realised how important your parents were? Well known. Was it like a still waiting for it? You're still waiting for it. Still waiting for the light bulb moment. Are they?

SPEAKER_03

Still waiting to be intimidated by my dad. Um it wasn't until I was like much older.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, like I would say like honesty 17. I remember doing politics A level and in politics A level, then talking to other kids in politics about Tony Blair and like the government that my dad had worked in, and then being like, I didn't know any of this. Like I just I'd been like naive to a lot of it because it was just like their job that I had absolutely no interest in.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm guessing from that you didn't really have any feel to be a certain type of way or avoid being a, you know, I mean, by the sounds of you being in your swimming and ballet classes, not really.

SPEAKER_03

No, I think I was always I did you feel like you wanted to be a rebel because it was the opposite of what you should have. Yeah, I think I was always very rebellious. I always knew that like our lives, you know, when we were younger we had um like panic panic alarms. I remember in my childhood bedroom we had these like uh panic buttons basically, and we had like for a period in time police outside our house, which the same house that I've always my parents have always lived in in North London, but there was just a period in time where there was you know lots of kind of like outside threat, and I didn't really understand why, and it made me feel incredibly anxious, and I think I internalised a lot of that. So I think it it affected me in lots of ways uh subconsciously, like I'm a very, very anxious person all the time. I constantly think I'm under threat now. Do you did you ever you have to use it? I once did it to see what would happen. And the police the police came straight away. And your story was? I just it was like what was that passage in the Bible? Not that I'm religious, but it's like the temptation, like it's like you know, you know that thing when they lock you in a room. It's something what you shouldn't do when you press the button. And it was like these two, it was like I just wanted to do it again. Me and Tyler, my best friend, like we just wanted to see what would happen. And if it wasn't fun, well, the police came and then I just got in loads of trouble. And I think my parents got fined because it was like a misuse.

SPEAKER_02

Uh, you in trouble. Um do you well, I mean, obviously you were a little bit rebellious and silly and intuitive, inquisitive. Um, do you remember the first time that you realised that you were funny and you thought, you know what? I could do this.

SPEAKER_03

I think being funny was actually like a coping mechanism. I was talking to someone about this the other day, my friend Dan, who's directing my new show. We were talking about how we my social currency has always been being funny. I think because as a child, I never felt like I was pretty, like the other girls I was friends with. I wasn't ugly, but I never felt like I was sort of one of those like kids or teenagers that like people are like, oh, you're so pretty. Like that was just never my vibe. My currency was always being funny, and so I think it's actually almost a bit of a it sometimes you up a bit. Sorry. Um good because you think it's all you have to then offer. Yeah, and then it's hard to sometimes like bring that guard down. So I think as a child I would perform. Um, I'd remember like really making my dad laugh and that making me feel really good, and him finding me really funny, um, and other adults finding me really funny. Um, and then at secondary school, I remember my friends who are all still my best friends now, just all found me so funny. But I never sort of thought it was, I just thought that's because of like I this thing that I'd always had. So I don't really know, like the comedy came way after. I didn't even know stand-up was a thing until I was like 22.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so you felt so basically it came natural and then you split on from there.

SPEAKER_03

I just sponged off of something that I'd al like I already had.

SPEAKER_02

Fair. I mean, natural's always nice.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's a nice way to Is the any off-limits humour?

SPEAKER_03

Or not Yeah, but like I only talk about myself. Yeah?

SPEAKER_02

So then I just there's a lot of Is it like stories from life? Yeah. Or just or do you bat like you said you bat you bounce off people?

SPEAKER_03

I do, like with my new show, the new show is kind of like uh it's set in a day and it's basically kind of a a play on like well, it's a little bit about like what it feels like when you sort of feel you've run out of material as a comedian, and like my last show was super intense story that was like rich in material, it was really easy to write in my last show. Whereas this show is a bit like wow, like nothing that mental's happened to me recently. So it's like this day where I'm sort of figuring out like what the show can be about is sort of what the show is about.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like that's the hardest thing. If there's doesn't seem anything to be going on, then it's hard to like come up with.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, but then basically the show starts with me being attacked by a crow. I was attacked by a crow, right? Which is a true story near where my parents live. Did you have anything specific on you? Well, crows hold grudges. Do you know that for life? I didn't know that. Yeah, and they pass their grudges down to their children as well.

SPEAKER_02

So have you peed a crow off in a life?

SPEAKER_03

Maybe in a different life, I don't know. Right. But the crow, it was this is in the Camden New Journal, The Crow, the Crow that was attacking people. It was it turned out it was attacking old women. So obviously thought I was an old woman from above.

SPEAKER_02

From above. And then it got down there for the wrong person. Thought she's really hot.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I'll attack her anyway. I'll get close to her. It was mad. I got attacked by it because it was such a shock. Like I was walking along the street and I had been told this is a metaphor, man. I had been told there is a crow in the area, like attacking people, women. So wear a cap. Like people had been saying wear a cap, like if you're walking along this road where it was attacking people. But I was going out to like a party, so I was like, I'm not gonna wear a cap, but I'm gonna have my hair out. And then it was such a shock because it came behind me and it was like stabbing me like that, and then I turned around, then it flew away, but I like properly made eye contact with it, and then I was like looking around and I was screaming, and I was like, Oh my god, did anyone see that? And there was like cars driving along the road, and they were all kind of like laughing at me because I was like, What the fuck? I was like, I've just been attacked by a crow. Go into the road to kind of get away from it, and it comes back for me. So then I was running away from it, and then I was lying on the floor in the middle of the road, like stopped traffic, as this crow was doing that to my head. Did no one help you? No one helped me. A man filmed me from his car, right? So there's a video of a middle-aged man. There's a video somewhere probably on Facebook, yeah. He was old.

SPEAKER_02

One of my close friends, she's from Australia, and it's known for like magpies in Australia. What's the attacking people? Because I said our magpies are actually quite nice, no?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, yeah, but now I don't feel safe around them either. Because I'm already scared of pigeons.

SPEAKER_02

Right, okay, so I shouldn't be saying this. No, I just I I There's a really funny video on YouTube though when you're not the person, and it's like this woman is on a bike, and they're basically apparently magpies are like territorial. Okay. When they've got like babies, babies down. And she had put like googly eyes on the back of her hat and seen that thinking they won't come, then went past with sticks in it, and it kept coming for her. But she kept doing it as like, is the anything that it won't come for me? Wow. It came for her every time. Wow. So maybe you could do that as a crow.

SPEAKER_03

Well, luckily it hasn't happened since. Whenever I do see a crow, I'm like, is that the crow? Have you seen Shits Creek? Obviously. Well, she does the crossing. Love it. Yeah, it's amazing. Because basically, what I'm thinking with this show is at because you know that bit when she has all the crows. Yes. What I'm thinking is someone said to me the other day, like, maybe at the end you should have an actual crow. You actually shouldn't do a brother. But I was like, well, I can't, you can't train a crow. That's what that that scene is proof of. The crowd they lose control of the crows. So I've been looking at like tactadummy kind of crows, like having a crow at the end. Because the crow's kind of like a metaphor. I don't want to give away the show. It's okay, you know. Yeah, but the but the crow is like it has a lot of meaning, the crow. The more you say what's it called? The crows have eyes in Jim's Creek. Yeah, and she's like sat in a nest with the crowd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

I know, you know. Yeah. Is there a career route that you wanted to go down that you didn't pursue in the end? Or you always like, this is it, this is what I'm doing. I'm destined for the funny path.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I've always wanted to direct films, which is still my goal. Okay. Um, and I will definitely. I just sort of wanted a bit more life experience. But I I my original intention was to create document be a documentary director. Okay. So I've always like wanted to do that. I mean, when I was uh a kid, I wanted to be a pop star.

SPEAKER_02

And then anyone specifically?

SPEAKER_03

Well, no, I wanted to be Grace Campbell, but I wanted to be the Grace Campbell pop star. Um, but then like I couldn't sing basically. So I went to Anna Share, like drama school in in Islington near here, and like yeah, it just became apparent that I couldn't really sing. Um I do think if I'd if I could sing I would have done well. I wish I could sing. I'd love to be able to sing.

SPEAKER_02

I can sing in the shower really well.

SPEAKER_03

Can you dance? When I'm drunk.

SPEAKER_02

I think I'm the best dancer in the room. Really?

SPEAKER_03

When I'm drunk, I get crippled with like anxiety about dancing. Even with a drink. Yeah. Yeah. I've been doing dance classes to try and build my confidence with dancing.

SPEAKER_02

That's cool. Any specific type of dancing?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I've been doing um the Pasadoble. Oh, which is hard. Strictly. Yeah. I know, yeah. No, I'm so bad. I'm so bad. I was at I go to Pineapple Dance Studios. Do you like the other day there was a girl, there was a girl, there was a girl in the class, and I could see in the mirror that she was like, she'd clocked me, and then I was like, oh, this is really embarrassing. This girl's like watching how bad I am at dancing. Then she comes up to me like in one of the breaks, she's like, I'm such a big fan of yours, and I was like, I really just I can't go to the show. I didn't mean to because I'm bad. I'm really bad. I don't think it's but the pasta doble is very like, yeah, okay. I mean really, but it's fun. Yeah, fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I would like to do I think some South the girls. How well do you think you know yourself? Beth, that's a really intense question. I know, sorry.

SPEAKER_03

You'll understand why. How well do I think I know myself? That may that I mean at the moment, I'm really, really asking myself that. Like, I want to know myself better, not to be deep, but I think I have a really warped opinion of myself that isn't quite true. So I'm trying to get to know myself better.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, well, we're gonna do the Grace Campbell quiz. It's only three questions, and it's just to see how well they know yourself. They may be very random for you right now, so don't worry about it. Okay, in an interview, you were asked what you believe was superior tinned food. What did you say?

SPEAKER_03

It's interesting because I hate tinned food. I definitely it definitely wasn't a fish. Was it? Was it tuna? Yeah. Wow. See, I say stuff that I don't even mean sometimes. Because I would change your answer. Well, I actually like am a bit disgusted when I think about the fact that the tuna in the tin goes out of date in like eight years, and that was once alive. It makes me feel quite sick when I think about it, but sometimes needs masks. Like there have been times in my life when obviously I eat I do eat tinned tuna, and I do still eat it, but but I flip back and forth on tuna.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Any other tin food? You beans. I like beans.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, beans, to be fair. Yeah, there's some good like childhood ones. Yeah, spaghetti. Yeah, spaghetti, I'll forget hoops. I love forgetting spaghetti. Oh, nice. Second question. You've said that your dad has a fear of ketchup, but what is the name for that phobia? Mortuscophobia. Oh my god, I haven't even known how to pronounce that, so I'm so happy in you.

SPEAKER_03

It's a hard one, it's a weird spelling, isn't it? Who come up with that? I think that's ketchup. I think that is how you pronounce it. It's mortgophobia. It's like you've nailed the user, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_02

It's got a lot of you's in it. Yeah, you you and another U U.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, basically, so my dad has mortiscophobia, as does one of my best friends, Katie, phobia of ketchup, so like they can't have ketchup at the dinner table. Like they can't. What's the uh well with my dad it's a fear of blood, it's because of a fear of blood. Katie, it isn't, she just finds ketchup really freaky. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you you're doing well so far. We've only got one more question. You can get full marks. You have a much loved podcast, late to the party, but who was your very first guest on it? Catherine Ryan. It's just too easy for her. Yeah, that was way too easy. Oh well, sorry.

SPEAKER_03

I didn't, I didn't, I thought I'd be you said you didn't know how well you knew yourself, so I went easy, you know. She's the best. She loved she was very generous to me.

SPEAKER_02

Nice, yeah. I mean, that's always nice for the first ones. How did you feel on your first one?

SPEAKER_03

Fine, because I knew I know Kathy so well, so it was so it was just like nice, but I actually have to stop doing that podcast for for now, anyway. But too busy, yeah, just it's a lot, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Fair enough. Yeah, taking on too much, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Just like to have me time. No, fair enough. I'm the season. I love having time for myself.

SPEAKER_02

I've just finished the season and I can't wait for some time. Yeah, exactly. Like, it's just so busy, yeah. Yeah. Um, so you've been very open about your life and in work. What do you think drives that? Like, why do you feel the need to be vulnerable and open?

SPEAKER_03

I think probably uh that's a good question. Um I've just always been that way. Yeah. I've always been like, in a way, it's a way to disarm people. Like, I'll tell you something about me, and then you feel more comfortable with me because you're like, oh, she's not got her guard up. Yeah. And I've always been very open about things. And I think in my work, I started to realise quite quickly how much not me personally, but how much like shame so many women have about certain things, and that made me like really sad. And so the things that I have spoken about have obviously come like I've you know, I've written about rape and like abortions and stuff like that. It comes with a lot of personal uh weight, like you have to carry a lot of weight in the periods that you're doing it, but then the payoff is like the amount of people that feel better about what they've gone through. That is the payoff. Because it's like whenever something bad happens, I always think what will be the good that I'll get out of this. Yeah, that's all the only way I can get through it is think what how can I offset this terrible thing by turning it into something good, and so that's what I'll do. Something will happen to me, and I'll think, well, that can't have just like happened in vain for no reason. It has to have happened because I'm then gonna turn it into something that's gonna help other people.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's cool, Ma. Um, you talk about men and dating in your work and your honesty um being a reason people love you. Not men though. I was gonna say, is that backfired? No, Nathan makes it. I was gonna say, is that backfired in the dating life?

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yeah? Yeah, very much. Uh yeah, yeah, but you know what? Okay, you know what I want to say? Yes, but something I'm becoming like acutely aware of. I was having a conversation with my friend about this the other day, and she was like, You should talk about this on a podcast, so I guess I'll say how throughout my like since I've been successful, I've had a very similar pattern with men, which is at the start, they like absolutely love it, and they're like, she's so like entertaining, and she's a storyteller and she's always got such interesting things to say, and like she's impressive to bring around my friends, and like you know, she's charming or whatever. Like, that's just they love it, and they're like come to your shows and they're really into it, and then after a period of time, and like that varies depending on how secure they are, they start to become more insecure about it, and I think whether it's like because they then worry about what I might say about them or how you know their their own insecurities are getting triggered, and I really have noticed it like more recently that I don't think in the way that I think a woman would be more comfortable with a man doing what I do, like like a woman, yeah. You know, if I look at lots of the male comedians I'm obsessed with, their wives are like very chill about like, yeah. Whereas men, like the male ego is much more fragile, in my opinion. Um, and men are, can I say, much less likely to be able to take a joke. Too seriously, they take everything too seriously, like especially if it's a woman making a joke, they are so sensitive. And it it's it's becoming like really like I'm really noticing at the moment in my like romantic life that I think as I become more successful, it's becoming more like threatening in a way. Um, and then also on top of that, there's like you know, threat about like you know, if if I make more money than a man, they like can't have it.

SPEAKER_02

You found some insecure men in your life, huh?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well my CBT therapist says that it's because I have low self-esteem, I'm attracting people with low self-esteem.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

So we've got to work on that.

SPEAKER_02

So I was gonna say, oh what are we doing with our work? We're working on it, yeah. I'm having a a break.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, I'm having a break. A month specifically. Yeah, I'm gonna go to France and just have a break from men for a bit.

SPEAKER_02

Fair enough. What about women?

SPEAKER_03

I wish. Yeah. You're not feeling it. No, sadly not. Fair enough. They're less sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well. But do you think, right? Like, okay, would you date a stand-up comedian? I would say I'm comfortable in myself enough that I would.

SPEAKER_02

But I guess I could I could understand maybe why, but I think that's somebody else's issue. Yeah. Yeah. I find a bit funny. Yeah, I think I wouldn't take myself too seriously. I'm not a serious person.

SPEAKER_03

The thing that annoys me, yeah, in my like romantic life is that I they've known what I do from the start. Stop, get good. And I I've I never changed it's like when you meet me for the first time, I'm exactly the same level of intense that I am. However, like I'm consistent, yeah. I'm consistently intense and insane. But like that's obvious from the start. I never like pretend to be this like chill, yeah, nice that you just like put in the corner and who'll just be really mean and we'll I'm never that person. But then it's just suddenly after a while, they're like, whoa. And I'm like, I this has always been here. I've no I've been hiding, I've not been hiding in playing side. This is literally being like you knew this is who I was, but it's just like it's yeah, it's basically in game.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know if that makes any sense, but I think it makes complete sense. I think it's just their issue. Yeah. If nothing to do with you better. No, you are very welcome. Thank you. Any uh are you good at giving dating advice to your friends?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I am, but like I think Oh, is it the honesty they go away? I no, I am I am good. No, I'm so I'm the kind of person that like will never I'm always so cautious of like saying anything about my friends' partners just in case they get back together, or like you know, like I I I'm always very clear.

SPEAKER_02

Never get sucked into that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I never ever get involved in that way. So I listen, I'm a very good listener, and I like yeah, I think I I am good, but I think more recently, like my most of my friends are in just like pretty chill, secure relationships, so they just have to listen to my woes a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's the job, yeah. Fair enough. So you're also a podcaster. I know that you have a football podcast with your dad a few years ago. Yeah. A few years ago, yeah. Big Burnley fan. Me? Are you or just your dad? No, no, my dad. Are you a fan? Um may have seen an Instagram post recently.

SPEAKER_03

If I was a fan of anything, it would be Arsenal because I'm a North Londoner. You are, and I've I've never had a boyfriend who isn't an Arsenal fan.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe that's where you're going wrong.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe that's where but like even not North London boys, like like South London boys who support Arsenal. Like I've just always attracted Arsenal fans. But I live, you know, in North London and the vibes like it's just been amazing. It's pretty. Yeah. But you know, I'm not gonna pretend like I was there for the for the low moments. Did you go to the parade? No, I was at Mighty Hoopla. Oh yeah, priorities. My real culture priorities, yeah. Um watching Sid Sisters.

SPEAKER_02

Um I did see your rendition of uh North London Forever. And what do we think of Tottenham? What do we think of Tottenham? Do you like so you like football?

SPEAKER_03

Like Yeah, I like I like it, and like I'm really excited about the World Cup. I'm just annoyed that the weird times it's on. Um so that'll be fun. Obviously, yeah, I love the Euros, like I love watching football. Um, the thing that I think has always affected me about football is but again, like growing up in a family of men who are obsessed with football, and then always having boyfriends who are obsessed with football is how much people let it affect their moods. Yeah. That is a bit off-putting for me. Well, right, we can't do it then. No, but you're an actual player, that's completely different. It affects my mood when I've had a bad game. Of course, because you're the player. I'm talking about some man who's like 70 miles away from the game who's like smashed up his laptop because it's dealing with the When I go swimming in the sea, um Eddie goes mad and she comes in with with me. She hates water, but she's so scared I'm gonna drown that she swims next to me while crying. So often. Did you swim in the sea often? Yeah, I love swimming in the sea.

SPEAKER_02

I I did it a little bit when I was on like an England camp and we were near the sea once, and I loved it, but we're not very close to the sea.

SPEAKER_03

When I'm in Scotland, I swim a lot. This is another tattoo. This is me and my best friend going into the lock on Tuesday. We love swimming in the locks. Yeah, just like the like snow, it's snowing around us. Like I love cold water. Okay. Me and my family are all obsessed with cold water.

SPEAKER_02

Are you ice baths? You do ice baths?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean I if I had one I would, but I love cold water swimming. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

I um live near the sea back home, and so many people do it with it. Yeah, it's a lot of things. It looks so good for you as well, and how you feel. Yeah. There you go. That must be a time where you're like, okay, I feel good, I'm refreshed.

SPEAKER_03

A hundred percent. Yeah. I think cold water and yes, like swimming in the loch with my best friends and my family. We go to Scotland for New Year's, meeting all my best friends and my family, is like it's the best way to start the year on New Year's Day.

SPEAKER_02

Is it a little tradition now?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we go for this swim on New Year's Day.

SPEAKER_02

So you can eat your New Year's dinner. Basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, we're always like unbelievably hungover as well.

SPEAKER_02

That's not a good combo. I mean, maybe after it is. Um, so you're known for your activism, and it seems like obviously it's very important to you. Um and you stand up for what you believe in. Does that come, you think, from within you, or your parents are I think both probably both.

SPEAKER_03

I think that my parents are so political, and you know, they're both very much like if there's something we can do about something that's bothering us, we'll do it. And so I definitely got that from them. Like the the fact that you can do stuff. Um, my mum, in very like local ways, has done a lot of like campaigning on like education and like improving the the like state school education system, not just like on a national level, but also in my local area in Camden where I grew up. And so I think having her and then my dad on a much like bigger scale, sort of like thinking he could stop Brexit, which he like thought he could do for a period of time. To be fair what she did. Bless him. I know. Um, but like that definitely being around them and and them sort of like trying to do stuff and getting involved in that way, it was just like very natural. But then I think I always the things I've always like felt really bothered by um are of have often been things that people haven't been speaking about that much, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Like I feel like you like things you like to make change, but you like to put a positive spin on whatever an outcome is.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I think like you know, the the stuff like this is not like activism, but what I've written about and done in terms of like talking about abortion, I really feel is like the one of my proudest things that I've ever done because I know that it's like helped so many people. There's I wrote an article in I think it's the Guardian of the Observer, I can't remember which one, I think they've broken up now, but I think at the time they were together. Um and the day it came out, I wrote an article about like the confusing feelings I had around having an abortion. The day it came out, I got like 28,000 DM requests on Instagram. Okay, and I I never got through like half of them, or even like you know, a few thousand of them. But the ones that I read were pretty much all the same vibe of like I have never ever read someone admit this so rawly.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And that I'm very proud of because, like, you know, I wrote this piece that I really wished I could have read when I was having like a really bad aftermath from an abortion, and I know that that had a really big impact, and people still go back and read it. So I think that kind of stuff that makes me feel like, oh, like you know, at least I've done that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you're helping and change and making people.

SPEAKER_03

And then I'll just chat like for the rest of the time. Well, you've wrote a book, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um obviously you've been very vulnerable in it as you are as a person. I didn't mean a book of shit that's not what.

SPEAKER_03

No, I actually forget I wrote a book because I did it in lockdown in six weeks and I just did it because I wrote my book in six weeks.

SPEAKER_02

Really? But mine, yeah, my autobiography. Wow. Yeah. Did you feel really drained after? I did, but I also was very like refreshed from it. Like I feel like I went into stuff good and bad, that sometimes you just don't think. Do you know when you just don't stand still enough long enough to like appreciate on appreciate a moment you've been through and got through?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So it was a little bit refreshing for me, and to go over things and kind of be like, okay, I've done that, yeah, and I've overcome that, or which was yeah, the refreshing part of it for me, but it was hard. Like I was speaking to someone and the ghostwriter for me, I think she said I was dreaming about you for six weeks. Wow. She was like, You were like an obsession of mine because she had we had to get it out quite quickly.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

But mine was in 22, so you went first. But d how did you feel when it came out? Um I was happy with it. I was happy with it, and I think um a lot of people resonated with it in different moments than how I'd been because I feel like we have a or I have a certain like persona that think people think about me because I'm quite bubbly and outgoing and I love when I'm being silly, it makes other people happy. But a lot of people didn't know about things that have happened because I've always looked like I've always had it together, you know. So I think it was nice to be able to share moments with people that they've been like, do you know why I felt like that? But you can also be okay on the other side of it as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, did you feel like it's so exposing a book because it's like you're not there for them to experience it? So, like with stand-up, like I'm there while they're witnessing me doing stand-up. Whereas with a book, you're like, people are like consuming it at their own pace in their own heart. It's such a strange concept, yeah, knowing all about it. Knowing that they're just with you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think yeah, it's whether you get the feedback from some people, which is nice and what they took from it, or how they took it, or how it helped them, or yeah, how they thought, actually, no, I didn't like that. But I guess you don't know that for every single person either.

SPEAKER_03

No, the dog snoring. I hope that's not being picked up. Yes, I did. She's absolutely gonked. Would you write another book? If you've got time. Uh honestly, I think I said this recently on something else, and I sounded like such a brat, but no, I get offered to write another book a lot, and I found the last book. I actually felt I was too young to write that book, and I didn't actually have enough life experience. People loved it, and people still talk to me about it a lot, but it's one of those things where I a little bit feel like I was just a little bit too young and like actually hadn't lived enough to be writing a book that was that sort of like full of opinions. So I think I want to live more. She's so sick of me. She's like, shut up. You're just talking about how many book deals you get offered. Hey, your kibble comes from this morning.

SPEAKER_02

Hey, at least she's comfortable so cute. You know, you can smell their cheesy pores. Do you not think they smell a popcorn? I love that boss.

SPEAKER_03

I love it so much. I love it. I love her. Write a book about Eddie. Yeah, I mean, Eddie is like a mate, she's changed my life. And like, when like I've had some men try and get in between between me and Eddie and say that my relationship with her is like too intense. And I'm like, no, I'm just waiting for the Well, that's an insecurity.

SPEAKER_02

If you're insecure of a dog, come on. Yeah, that's Amen. Yeah. Do you think there is a way to achieve true happiness? Are we always?

SPEAKER_03

Uh I don't think you can I don't think you can always be happy, no. No. I I think that you have to be like if you are an emotionally intelligent person, there's no way you're gonna always be happy because you're gonna be responding to things that are going on in the world, you're gonna be responding to things that are going on in people that you love's lives, you're gonna be responding to what's going on in your life. I think that like one of the best things I've learned in the last few years is when I'm really unhappy, which is sometimes I have very volatile mental health, knowing that it will go. Because it's not forever. In the past, when I'd be in like a really bad mental health spot, it would feel so permanent. Yeah, and then I'd get stuck in this loop of this is never gonna end, and then that would almost be what was making me more depressed or more anxious was that it was never gonna end. So constantly reassuring myself that, like, you know, in a month's time I will feel differently than I did a month ago. In a year's time, I'll feel differently than I do right now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's fair. Um, is there something in your life you'd like to do? Is it your goal, a target, something you'd hit like to do, hit?

SPEAKER_03

I really want to go to Mexico. I've never been. Tequila. Tacos. Tacos. Fish tacos. Nacho's.

SPEAKER_02

I've never been. Have you been? No, not Mexico. Really? No. To be fair, I've been to a few places, but I've not seen that many places. I travel with football.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and you never get.

SPEAKER_02

Can I see a read, an airport, a hotel, or a football stadium? That's quite slightly. It is because you could see more, but sometimes.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And I, yeah, I've every year I say this year I'm gonna go to Mexico. And then it's never the right time, it's like never the right time because of work or like things that are going on in my personal life, or whatever. And I just really this year want to go to Mexico. I'm gonna try and go in December.

SPEAKER_04

Why Mexico?

SPEAKER_03

Just because I I think Mech I think I'm gonna love Mexico City so much. I I've read I've watched so many films set there, like I just love the vibe. Yeah, and um I don't speak Spanish, but I listen to enough Bad Bunny. I feel like I'd get by.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, and how does that sound like? What have you learnt from Bad Bunny?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I'm going to see Bad Bonnie twice. I'm seeing him in London and I'm flying to Marseille to see him.

SPEAKER_02

My friends went to the Madrid one last night.

SPEAKER_03

Shah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they said it was very good.

SPEAKER_03

I can't wait.

SPEAKER_02

Is he like your type?

SPEAKER_03

Uh I wouldn't say he's my type, but like I'm obsessed with Bad Bonnie. You love it. Like, I just I just love his whole vibe. Did you see him in the Happy Gilmar film? Yeah, he was so good. He was so good. So right. He was so good. He was amazing. He did great with the film. He's got great comic timing. Whenever he hosts SNL, he's so good. Yeah. Very funny. Yeah. Very funny. He's got such a range, Benito.

SPEAKER_02

Best mates for Benito. Okay, so if they're making a movie about your life, who's playing you? Conan O'Brien. Okay. Why have you gone down that route? I just think he's the funniest person in the world.

SPEAKER_03

Do you know him?

SPEAKER_02

I know of him. Yeah. I just think he's You've just gone for the funny aspect.

SPEAKER_03

I've just gone like who's gonna have the comic range to do me? Jim Carey could do me. Susan Boyle. And he's supposed to. Hair. Similar hair. Is that the vibe you're going for the Susan Boyle? Similar, we've got similar hairstyles. Like a young, a young um You dreamed a dream. Uh what's her name? A young Susan Sarindon, like that vibe. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Would have been a little bit. Emma Stone. Like Emma Stone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

She's amazing. But I would play myself in the film. And direct it. And direct it. What? And write it.

SPEAKER_02

What route are you going down?

SPEAKER_03

Writing, directing. That's what I've done.

SPEAKER_02

That's literally just that. So you say in action and then you have to run into the set and then do it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, you just c you someone else calls action. Okay, you're on camera. I thought you'd be on it, and I thought it's no, I made a short film that was like I wrote, directed, and acted in it, and um I loved it so much. How short is a short film. It's like 12 minutes.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like I've watched one on Netflix recently. Leah Williamson made me watch it. I don't know, I can't remember what it was called, but it was about a group of men in a bar. Okay. And they were all singing. Started singing and they all could sing. I can't remember the name of it. I'm gonna have to think of that one for you.

SPEAKER_03

But I'm like What I want to know more about it. How long was it? 18 minutes or something. I like that because you know, for an ADHD person, it's nice to watch something that's not too long.

SPEAKER_02

No, for I enjoyed it. Yeah. I feel like I didn't take it. Didn't get it. Maybe I shouldn't watch it again. Okay. Well, that concludes the podcast. Wow. Let's flow and did it go quick? Yeah. Okay, that's good.