Two Pens, One Porch
Writers Dagny Waldron and Cheryl Stead live in Virginia's Northern Neck. They discuss local happenings, the writing process, and anything else that grabs their attention.
Two Pens, One Porch
Community in Popular Culture
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Cheryl and Dagny take a deep dive into how community shapes our lives and appears in popular fiction such as Star Wars and Harry Potter. Exactly how many hugs is too many? They will leave no stone unturned.
Welcome to The Porch. We're so glad you're here. This podcast comes to you from Virginia's Northern Neck, where life slows down just enough to notice things. Hey, welcome back to The Porch. So this is Dagny, and I'm sitting here on the porch with Cheryl. So today we're going to talk about community in popular culture and you know some of the popular culture that we're going to refer to throughout our talks because they're just so popular, how else to say it? Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and many, many others. So community in popular culture. What does community mean to all of us? You know, in our writing, both mine and Cheryl's writing, how is community involved? How does it affect our writing? But also community is so important. I heard something on the radio today that just to survive, a human needs four hugs a day to maintain eight hugs a day, and to thrive 12 hugs a day. Now, I have a very loving family, but I'm not sure I get 12 hugs a day or even eight.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that that's really an interesting statistic. I think that's got to depend a lot on the type of personality you are. Absolutely. I don't know if 12 hugs a day for me might be too many. Yeah, I think I'd start feeling a little smothered.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I agree with you, Cheryl. Well, and that quote that I threw out there about the the hugs per day for 812. That actually came from a study of how digital communication has affected us as a community. That you can reach out online, text form, all the all the ways that there are to reach out to people now as as much as you want, but it's not the same as having real people around you, real community.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, apparently that a particular statistic was noted by family therapist Virginia Satir. S-A-T-I-R, if I'm not pronouncing that right.
SPEAKER_03Virginia, if you're listening to us, come on in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we'd we'd love to interview you. Anyone who would like to be interviewed, please reach out to us. Real community. Yeah, the 20 second rule says that the hug must be held for 20 seconds to release a stronger oxytocin spike.
SPEAKER_03No, see, I but I'm with you about like what you said about it might be too much. That is too much. 20 seconds. I would, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I'm just not used to it. Now I could probably get used to it. If you don't have someone to hug, my AI is remend recommending self-hugging. Oh, that's so sad.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that's like trying to do the hindlight like that at all. Yeah, no, but but still all the same. I mean, 20 seconds. What if we just here, and I'm not saying we have to do it, but what if we just sat here quietly for 20 seconds and there was nothing? That's a long time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I'm not sure how you would. I mean, you you'd have to almost throw in some packs, you know, and just kind of mix it up a little bit. And it's almost too, it's too intimate for many people. There, there are only certain people that I'm gonna hunt for 20 seconds. I could, yeah. I mean, sure, maybe you need some oxytocin, but you better be getting that from your intimate partner, yeah, not from random people on the street. Come here and give me some oxytocin.
SPEAKER_03Not not from like being uh checkout clerk. The checkout clerk, right? Awkward.
SPEAKER_02That is a little awkward, so and like I said, it depends on your personality. There's some people are huggers, and I know one lady who is notorious for you know, you better not hug her. Yeah, you will regret it. Oh doesn't like the hug. She does not like it at all.
SPEAKER_03I and I I understand that I actually have to, I think I have because I'm not a huge fan of hugs, other than from people that I'm close to, you know, my family, close friends, that so what I sometimes do is I think to myself because I don't think this way, because I don't think I want to hug. I think I'm always thinking when I part with someone, they're looking for a hug. So I think I've actually hugged people because I thought they were looking for a hug that really weren't looking for a hug. It's just it's just weird.
SPEAKER_02It yeah, I I can kind of tell with people I know well because I see them hugging other people, and I'm like, oh, they probably want me to hug them too, you know, unless I smell bad or something, you know. I don't know why they wouldn't want me to hug them too. Right. So I usually go with that. I'm just kind of observing their behavior around others, but yeah, uh for somebody I've just met, I'm probably not gonna go in for the hug because I mean that's just yes me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and to your point, I mean, community is about observing others and figuring out how they operate and what they need. And in some of the writing we've discussed, such as Harry Potter, Star Wars, the the mainly young, you know, um characters, the children really. I mean, in Harry Potter, they're when they start Harry Potter, they're children by the time it's over, you know, they're young adults. But community is a place where they long to they need to be seen, valued, and accepted. And at first that just doesn't happen for Harry Potter and many of the other characters in the pop in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02No, I think he makes friends pretty quickly with Ron and Hermione.
SPEAKER_03But that's after he goes to school and knows who he is when he's living with his aunt and uncle. Right, right.
SPEAKER_02But the story begins where he's, you know, that's he's almost immediately taken out of that unhealthy environment, which is remarkable that that he could have really survived very well at all, uh, given you know the kind of environment he had been in with his aunt and uncle. It's probably not very realistic. Um that any child could come out of that and and be as uh level-headed as as Harry Potter was. Um, but and then of course in Star Wars, we have you know Luke feeling lonely, that all his friends have left and wanting to, you know, to leave Tatooine. And so that's also interesting. He finds his his community by you know joining this band of rebels. So um, yeah, two very different communities, different, very different stories. But you know, an essential part of that protagonist, you know, journey was not he's not a loner, he's got his buddies. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that that's the thing, is it it's sort of these uh in a lot of the these books, then then of course made into movies, it's a ragtag group of of people that often find themselves drawn together and you know saving the world, even.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, the the way just random chance uh throws them together and um you know forces them to no pun intended make an alliance.
SPEAKER_01So uh uh.
SPEAKER_02And uh we're very nerdy here. And so let's drag poor Frodo into this. Yeah, so he's got his Shire, yeah. And so he's living in the Shire, he has his community there, and he gets kind of dragged kicking and screaming into a whole different world where he's got to form the fellowship of the ring, which is really the community that's at the core of that of that story arc, right?
SPEAKER_03And he he only succeeds because of the support of his the people that have rallied around him. He can't do it alone.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, that's kind of the key of all of these, you know. Even though Luke is, you know, got this gift of, I don't know what they would, what we call it second sight or whatever, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without, you know, training from Albi-Wan, without an X-wing plane to to shoot with, you know, you you it definitely describes the essential, the the great need for a a community around you. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So let's talk about, you know, what happens when people don't experience community? I mean, it if they hadn't if they hadn't experienced community, things would have, well, we wouldn't have these wonderful books and and then movies again. Uh what happens when people don't experience community? You know, you've got we can certainly look around our our own community, our own area, and and see, you know, what happens. You get you get loneliness, anxiety, you pop poverty. I mean, the the list goes on, you know, uh, but community is is so important in in real life and in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02For sure. Um, and we could start off here local and and then move out into the the broader world here in our little local community. We've got a lot of the same problems that are in a lot of rural America. You know, that there's drug abuse, there is um poverty, there's all of those kind of things that kind of tear communities apart.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And I was actually talking to my daughter about poverty in areas that are uh you know more city-like, such as Richmond versus here in the Northern Neck versus Southwest Virginia, and kind of what makes it different as far as the poverty and the drug abuse. Uh, one of the things that I said out loud to her that I was wondering was, you know, sometimes in more rural areas, people may have land, but they don't necessarily have what they need to thrive on that land. You know, maybe land has been passed down, maybe they've got uh you know a few acres, but when they don't have what they need to make a positive uh contribution to their lives and society with this land, and that is how children learn you know how to act in in public and in the community.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, that's why they're having so much, so much is going on right now with the children and them being given all of these screens at school.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I blame COVID too.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I blame definitely accelerated the whole push toward digitizing everything that children see. And you know, for it seemed to work so well for adults. I mean, online education, right? That's that's how I got my master's degree. I did most of it online. And there's a place for that. And it's it's fine. I was already a mature adult, my brain was already developed, and it was just a very convenient way to get a degree. Children who are still mastering social skills, I think should be kept will be kept far away from almost every screen. I mean, even television was bad enough, and then they started adding video games, and now they have all your learning, and and and you're supposed to interact with people socially. I mean, it's just it's awful.
SPEAKER_03And and during COVID, when everybody was doing everything online, and you have seven-year-olds, eight-year-olds, 12-year-olds, you know, so on and so forth, who literally for a couple of years did not get to learn how to cooperate, share, resolve conflict, just play fairly, even any of those things. I mean, I mean, maybe they did because they had good family members and and that you know made sure they still learned those things, but a lot of kids they get that from school. It's true.
SPEAKER_02Now, there's nothing wrong with you know homeschooling children if you're if you're a decent parent. No, um but not put don't put them in front of a screen when they're still very young. I can see kids in high school being able to do some online learning, and it's probably good for them to to get the feel for what that's like since it's so common in college now, but only if they're already socially pretty grounded.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, yeah. And and by high school, sure, you've already had the you you remember the book Um Everything I Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten? Sure. I mean, that's not necessarily true, but I get what they're saying. It's the basics, and in some of the writing we've discussed, such as Harry Potter, Star Wars, the the mainly young, you know, characters, the children really. I mean, in Harry Potter, they're when they start Harry Potter, they're children. By the time it's over, you know, they're young adults. But community is a place where they long to they need to be seen, valued, and accepted. And at first that just doesn't happen for Harry Potter and many of the other characters in the pop in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think he makes friends pretty quickly with Ron and Hermione.
SPEAKER_03But that's after he goes to school and knows who he is when he's living with his aunt and uncle. Right, right.
SPEAKER_02But the story begins where he's, you know, that's he's almost immediately taken out of that unhealthy environment, which is remarkable that that he could have really survived very well at all, uh, given you know the kind of environment he had been in with his aunt and uncle. It's probably not very realistic. Uh, that any child could come out of that and and be as uh level-headed as as Harry Potter was. But and then of course in Star Wars, we have you know Luke feeling lonely, that all his friends have left and wanting to, you know, to leave Tatooine. And so that's also um interesting. He finds his his community by you know joining this band of rebels. So um, yeah, two very different communities, different, very different stories. But you know, an essential part of that protagonist, you know, journey was not he's not a loner, he's got his buddies. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that that's the thing, is it it's sort of these uh in a lot of the these books, then then of course made into movies, it's a ragtag group of of people that often find themselves drawn together and you know saving the world, even. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Yeah, the the way just random chance uh throws them together and um you know forces them to no pun intended, make an alliance.
SPEAKER_01So uh uh.
SPEAKER_02And uh we're very nerdy here. And so let's drag poor Frodo into this. Yeah, so he's got his Shire, yeah. And so he's living in the Shire, he has his community there, and he gets kind of dragged kicking and screaming into a whole different world where he's got to form the fellowship of the ring, which is really the community that's at the core of that of that story arc, right?
SPEAKER_03And he uh he only uh succeeds because of the support of his the the people that have rallied around him.
SPEAKER_02He can't do it alone. Absolutely, that's kind of the key of all of these, you know, even though Luke is, you know, got this gift of I don't know what they would, what we call it uh second sight or whatever, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without you know training from Albi Wan, without an X-wing plane to to shoot with, you know, you you it definitely describes the essential, the the great need for a a community around you.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So let's talk about, you know, what happens when people don't experience community? I mean, it if they hadn't, if they hadn't experienced community, things would have, well, we wouldn't have these wonderful books and and then movies again. Uh what happens when people don't experience community? You know, you've got we can certainly look around our our own community, our own area, and and see, you know, what happens. You get you get loneliness, anxiety, poverty. I mean, the the list goes on, you know, uh community is is so important in in real life and in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02For sure. I mean, we could start off um here local and and then move out into the the broader world. Here in our little local community, we've got a lot of the same problems that are in a lot of rural America. You know, that there's drug abuse, there is um poverty, there's all of those kind of things that kind of tear communities apart.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And I was actually talking to my daughter about poverty in areas that are uh you know more city-like, such as Richmond versus here in the Northern Neck versus Southwest Virginia, and kind of what makes it different as far as the poverty and the the drug abuse. Uh, one of the things that I said out loud to her that I was wondering was, you know, sometimes in more rural areas, people may have land, but they don't necessarily have what they need to thrive on that land. You know, maybe land has been passed down, maybe they've got uh you know a few acres, but when they don't have what they need to make a positive uh contribution to their lives and society with this land, I think what a lot of people do is turn to something for survival, and that could be, you know, a place off in the middle of nowhere on this land where there are some seedy things going on where people just trying to survive, like the drug abuse or the drug dealing and that sort of thing. We were just trying to figure out like what's the difference in a city like Richmond, it's so central. I mean, you you see it in places like this, it's sometimes very hidden and like far southwest Virginia. It's very hidden among the the woods, the mountains out in the southwest, or the the creeks and tiny, tiny uh roads down in you know this area in the northern neck. It's it's hidden. I feel like it's just more hidden than it is right out in the open in a place like Richmond.
SPEAKER_02Well, let me think. Um, what what do I have to say about that? I mean, there's always the local newspapers, and a lot of times they'll put everybody's business in there. So you can still get a pretty good feel for what's going on. There is definitely not wanting people to know um your personal stuff.
SPEAKER_03That is a great point.
SPEAKER_02I see that a lot in rural communities. Um, there's some sort of pride thing that people in the city don't quite feel as much like that.
SPEAKER_03Yes, you make you make a very, very good point. Small towns are small, you know, small more rural areas are are fodder for you know gossip and and yeah, people don't want anyone to know. So whether they're trying to hide and be more private or whether it's just because they're off in the middle of nowhere and can do that. But I think you're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_02So I think maybe a lot of uh, you know, maybe some of the political unrest see today is a breakdown in community. You know, people feel disconnected and they think they know something is fundamentally wrong with how society is working, and they think maybe to Fix that, the solution is to go out and create some mayhem. I don't think that's a good solution.
SPEAKER_03I think I think a lot of I'm just gonna I'm gonna go off on a tangent here, and this could be a subject for an entire other episode, but I think people are just bored and unfulfilled in a large way. I I I just feel like the societal confines that have been put on so many people and labels and put people in boxes with labels, and it's just um it's just hard. It's hard to, you know, you people are afraid, afraid of the world. They don't want to go out and do anything because they're oh, what could happen? What could happen? There's bad people out there, or they're you know, they were sheltered because of COVID, and you know, now they're going off to college and they're scared. I don't know. I just I just feel like people are not able to live their authentic lives in many, many ways right now. Sure.
SPEAKER_02Well, starting in our childhoods, they had what where everyone was worried about these latchkey children, which was what I was. I, you know, kind of fended for myself for a large part. And granted, something could have happened to me, but it did not. I it's so I think ultimately it worked out pretty well. I I became a fairly independent person, maybe a little too independent. Okay. Yeah, well, you know, I just I just tend to make decisions and and not think about uh even uh you know, sharing the decision making with anyone else. I'm like, this is what I'm gonna do, you know, and that may not necessarily be the best way to proceed with life. Sometimes it's good to to run your ideas by other people before before you before you go off, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I I'm guilty of the same thing. I but you know, I I look back and I think in so many ways I would have done done so many things differently and I would have asked for more advice, even recently in my in my fairly advanced adulthood. I uh for example, I bought a car a couple years ago. I regret it. I wish I'd asked more questions, I wish I'd asked more friends and family. What would you do? Shopped around a little longer, but I hadn't had a good, reliable car in a number of years, and I just did it. And and it was it it's been great, it's a beautiful little car, but uh yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't like it's an albatross, yes, financially.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Well, you're not alone in that. I mean, those use car those new car dealers, they they know how to to suck people in.
SPEAKER_03But I knew better. I've listened to Dave Ramsey. I I should have known better, but anyway, it is what it is. Right.
SPEAKER_02Live and learn. All right, and that would concludes our episode for today.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for joining us. See you next time. Bye-bye. Bye. And please remember if you want to get in touch with us, you can do so at two pens one porch at gmail.com. Again, that's two pens one porch at gmail.com. No spaces, t w o p e n s o n e po r c at gmail dot com.