The Pet-Centered Episode

How do cats and dogs appear in literature? Dagny and Cheryl explore the implications of various pet metaphors as Dagny's dogs provide inspiration. Then they expand their discussion to include aliens before returning the Earth and the ramifications of local bookstores on communities. 

Links:

How Independent Bookstores Have Thrived in Spite of Amazon.com | Working Knowledge

Compass Cinema Six - times & tickets

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Just enough to notice things. Welcome back to the porch. I'm Cheryl here with Dagny. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

And we are on Dagny's porch today, surrounded with Dagny's dogs. Yep, you might hear some some panting. It's a very hot day. Very, very hot. And the dogs are hot. They just came in. Might hear them drinking some water, so that's all that is.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yep, yep. So we are going to continue discussing the things that we've been reading lately.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And then we're going to talk a bit about some cat and dog metaphors and idioms and just how much cat and dog references come up in everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

And we may be wrapping up this episode with a discussion of indie bookstores and a hint as to one of our future podcasts. So I wanted to talk about cat and dog metaphors because I came across one in this book by Henry James, where one of the characters said to the other, All cats are gray at night. And the context was talking about how these two people, you know, they might look different, but really on the inside, they're the same. People are not that different. And I had never heard it expressed like that before. And I was just thinking, that's you know, because Dagney and I do have so much of our lives wrapped up in cats and dogs, that it would be a fun little thing to explore how these um metaphors make it into literature and into pop culture and in our everyday speech.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yes. Um, and and what a great time to do it here. As you said, we're surrounded by um very very hot dogs. We've got hot dogs around us. Uh we are we have our grand dog here and our grand cat upstairs. Yes, understood. Um, so um, yeah, the kids are out of town, so definitely, you know, we're we're babysitting with our grand animals, but um, yeah, a lot of cat and dog dog metaphors and idioms come up in everyday life. Um I mean, many of them are very, you know, lots of lots of people, you know, have fight like cats and dogs, right? That's um it's raiding cats and dogs, yes, or cat got your tongue.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Let the cat out of the bag. That's yep, yep, that's all those things. So the uh origins of all cats are gray at night goes back to 1546. John Hayward um published a collection of proverbs, and he said, When all candles be out, all cats be gray. And and the idea was that in darkness physical differences are obscured.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

It's pretty true.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, with people, people too. Maybe we should bring that back. I want to start saying it everywhere I go, yeah, and see see the looks I get from people, yeah. But it I mean it makes a lot of sense, you know, and even with people in the dark, we're we're all just people, yep, and of course, you know, everybody's always thinking for about cats and looking at cats, so that's why you would want to use that proverb, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Right, that's right. Um, I was looking up also some other more obscure cat and dog metaphors. Um, at least for me, I am not familiar with um busier than a three-legged cat in a dry sandbox.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

That sounds like one of those southern aphorisms.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

It's actually um, I believe it's British, a colorful regional metaphor used to describe someone who is frantically and overwhelmingly occupied with a chaotic task.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Okay, I have never heard of that one, but maybe it is something we need to start saying that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah. A three-legged cat in a um, I'll say it again, busier than a three-legged cat in a dry sandbox. A dry sandbox. I yeah, I I I'm gonna have to think about that one for a while, but I think everyone can identify with being that busy. Most people, I can, I know you can. Yep, yes. Yep, our lives are very, very busy. Um, another more obscure dog one is um hold on, let's see. Every inch a gentleman, but a dog in the chase.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

And that is you can probably think about it's kind of like the one I said, like you're looking beyond what somebody looks like. How do they act when the pressure's on?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Right, exactly. It's a metaphor for a person who appears exceptionally polite and refined in public, but becomes utterly ruthless and aggressive when pursuing a goal.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Okay, yeah, some different levels of psychopathy might be in at play with that one, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

And so, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I guess because dogs and cats are for sure the most widely domesticated animals. I know that yes, people have guinea pigs. We've we've had guinea pigs in our family, or um, you know, even pigs, right? When I was a kid, I always wanted a pot-bellied pig. Those can certainly be domesticated and more exotic things like monkeys or whatever, and uh whatever other animals you can think that someone may domesticate that wouldn't be your traditional domesticated animal. A raccoon, a skunk, who knows. But um, I can't really think of you know any metaphors. I I think they're metaphors certainly in idioms about horses, but I can't think of a guinea pig idiot metaphor, a guinea pig saying.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, and and maybe it would be worth thinking about why people gravitate toward cats and dogs. I mean, cat uh dogs certainly excel above any other species in their loyalty, you know, their ability ability to bond into a family.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Um become almost like part of the family. No other animal can do that as well. Um, and cats I think are just because um, I mean, they kind of have like little little faces that uh they're not super expressive, but you can kind of read into them what you want to see, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I get what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, and and so people uh you know anthropomorphize their cats, and you know, of course they get attached to them because they become like little little children, and uh, you know, cats are definitely easier to handle than say a pig. Yeah, you know, you can easily carry the cat around with you, yeah, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Sorry, we've got a loud drinking dog. Hot dogs, like I said, but yeah, you were talking about how they look and their expressions. So Cheryl has Cheryl and Richard have some company. It is Richard, their friend and Richard's friend and Cheryl's friend and his four boys, ranging in age from what, eight to fourteen?

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, eight to thirteen.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Eight to thirteen. And one of them was talking about the expressive eyes of our beagle, wafer. And and yeah, I mean, you can read into that what you want. Does she want food? Is she trying to judge you? What you know, um, but from a behavioral and like personality um situation. So I was looking up that a cat person represents independence, mystery, and selectivity. Like a cat, they often keep to themselves, value personal space, and will only interact on their own terms. How do you feel about that? Is that accurately reflecting the sense?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Cats definitely cannot be forced into interactions, whereas dogs, I mean, you can't force a dog to really do anything either. The difference is dogs want to please you in general.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

And as far as training, they can certainly be trained better than that.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Dogs seem to want to have this innate need to please a human. Um, if it's a normal dog. Um, of course, some dogs, you know, yeah, are out there, but nor normal dogs really do want to please us.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

And some cats are very dog like, as we were saying earlier, my daughter's cat, Sidge, who's upstairs, she's definitely more dog-like. Um, but like people, they have their own personalities. So on the flip side of that, a dog person symbolizes loyalty, eagerness to please, as you just said, and high energy. They value teamwork, external validation, and overt displays of affection.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

They yeah, they really are very different personalities when you think about cats and dogs, but they are both very enjoyable pets. There's no reason why you can't like both of them, right? Just like you have different friends in your life, right? You don't say I only like this type of person. I can't have any friends who aren't, you know, outgoing and want to play games all day. You have all kinds of different friends, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Or who have may have different uh thoughts than you, uh whatever in whatever way that that may be. Um that makes life more interesting for you. Sure does. If we were all the same, it would be a pretty boring, pretty boring world. Um, so it's funny because I I always think of myself as a dog person, but when they describe the cat person personality, I kind of identify with that more. Independence, mystery, selectivity. Yeah, yeah, you told me that he values personal space. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

I mean, uh how can you be a writer if you don't have any personal space? Exactly.