SPEAKER_04 0:03

You hear those rocks? Tonight's episode brought to you by Kirkland.

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Tequila time.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Tequila Repressado. Alright, anywho. Alright, so are we going to talk about what we talked about last night or are we changing the tone completely?

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Loans and credit cards. How it applies to business and personal relationships. Now just a disclaimer.

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Are they worth it or are they not worth it?

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Are they not?

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Are they overrated or underrated?

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Just a disclaimer: we are not experts. We do not claim to be financial experts in any type of way. Me certainly not so.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

I spend all my money on tequila. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

It was $26.49, okay, at Costco. Relax. So we don't claim that we, you know, know a bunch about finances, but we're just speaking from experience of how it's gone in our life.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

So and I think it's awesome because we're gonna get the uh personal aspect from a just a normal female who uh you didn't rely on anyone.

SPEAKER_08 1:26

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

This was you. I think that's so cool to get this perspective from you, and then you can get the striped daddy's perspective. And also, I guess a personal Jake for a hot minute, but everything I do now, I just think about my business and my family's future and my future.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

And and for just for the record, so a little bit of difference in Jake and I's money philosophy, which we've definitely had to adjust since we are since married now. Um, but I never really was like a saver, right? I had money in my bank account in case of something, but I was never really like a oh my god, I need to have thousands and thousands of dollars in my bank account. You know, I contributed the base amount of money that your company would match and my 401k. So just really kind of like my history is pretty basic, I would say. Um, my family was not was we were very poor. My parents had six kids on my dad making like $45,000 a year back in like I don't know, late 90s, early 2000s, which didn't really get you very far.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

But you know what? Um it that's a decent amount back then. You know, it it's not you know, I'm not poo-pooing on your dad, but like not terrible.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Not terrible, but like tough with six kids. Tough with six kids. Like my mom got all of our clothes from like the salvation army, the thrift store. Um, so they did a lot of the stuff to like save money, yeah, but they never got ahead, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

I want you to continue that, but I'm guessing back then, for what you're saying, let's say it was how much you want to say, like 40 grand?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I would save like 40,000 in like mid early 2000s. That's how much okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

I'm gonna guess that that's equivalent to between 95 to 115 today. No way. I bet you. I bet you. Anyways, you can continue on. I'm gonna find this out.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

My parents, um, they did not have a lot of money, like I said. Um, my parents actually exchanged, we went to a private school through our church. My parents actually exchanged vehicles for my tuition.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Forty thousand dollars in nineteen ninety-five is equivalent to the purchasing power of about eighty-seven thousand nine hundred and fifty-eight dollars and seventy-nine cents today.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah, but that's early nineties, so but I guess like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

I mean, you gotta hand it to them. Like, that's not bad. No, I I that's a lot of freaking pressure. Six miles to feed. I'm just saying there's there's families that have survived unless.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

So I I I understand it maybe felt poor, but like I wouldn't say that's that's not too bad.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

The only reason why I feel like it was even that much was because my grandparents on my dad's side were very um well off. Not that they made a ton of money, but you said they were really good savers, right? Yeah, my grandpa worked at Wonderbred um in downtown Detroit.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

And he worked there from the time he grandma stayed at home? Yeah. From the time he was like 20 something to when he retired in like the 70s. Now or when he was in a 70s.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

Forgive me for my greenness. That's not like um a union job or anything.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

No. I mean, they barely made any money. Like they were pinching pennies.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

I knew a bread man back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

But they lived in the same house. Like nowadays, you know, you can you typically are in, probably, I would say, an average person or average family, probably in like three to four houses in your entire lifetime.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

I gotta move from a house. I bet people can hear doodles snoring.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah. Um, but my grandparents lived in the same house from when they got married and moved there to when they both passed. So, like, obviously, they bought their house and it was probably like $15,000 and then made a killing you know after they passed. But just to give you the concept of like my grandparents had a lot of money saved, so they helped my dad out a lot with his business. They were basically like his bank. He would borrow how to do that.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

He needs he needs 10 grand for four cars. He's got it, he pays it back.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

He pays it back.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Fantastic. Good for him.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

So leveraging. Where my money philosophy came from was that I didn't want to be like that. I didn't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I wanted to at least like live comfortably, right? Of course. Um, so I've never really Tomorrow's not promised. Yep. Right? Which is the thing is like you want to live comfortably, but you also want to enjoy your life. Thousand percent. So I don't want to sit there and live where I'm putting every single extra dime that I have into my savings. Like, if I want to go out and buy a new couch for my house, like I want to be able to do that and not have to worry about it. So, anyways, that's a little bit of my history. Jake, take it away.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

Um, so always been a big saver. Never wanted the latest and greatest toy as a kid. Um just wasn't important.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Were you just like a play outside type of kid?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Or like find something to do too. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_04 6:58

You know, I'm gonna steal a comedic line. I mean, went out to play war with the neighbors. We lost a lot of good kids out there. Um yeah, playing war, um, cowboys and Indians, um, shooting basketball uh at the basketball hoop. Um I wouldn't say like I was your traditional 70s and 80s kids where like you're out of the house at 7 a.m. and then the lights come on, it's dinner time. Don't get me wrong, I was a big modern warfare guy. That's uh a video game that came out. Oh my freaking loved. Are you kidding me? Yeah, went to I was a comrade. You know, I could basically lead the platoon if I needed to. Um, but also, too, you gotta think our upbringing was different because your parents got divorced around 16 years old, right? So my parents divorced for the second time. Uh they got divorced. Yeah, this is nuts. Got divorced when my sister was like a little baby, and then they remarried, worked their shit out, and then shit did not get worked out. So by the time I'm in third grade, a little patch job there. Third grade. So what are you you're five in kindergarten, so add three.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I think like seven, eight.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Seven eight. Um, and so eight years old, parents are splitting. And what was really cool, my sister, um, I don't even know how she came up with this. So if I'm eight, my sister's twelve and a half at the time, and my sister says, Okay, you wanna, you know, destroy Jake and my life, we're gonna do it our way. And my parents are like, What?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Which is so like if you know Callie now, she's such like a non-confrontational, non-argumentative person. So for her to say that as a kid, like I can't even picture it. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

Bird's nest custody. For those of you that are not familiar with this, it's phenomenal for the children. So the house that we called home, Roxbury and Troy, my parents they kept that house, and Callie said we're doing bird's nest custody, and my mom bought a condo in Royal Oak. My dad, you know, because he knew he was just gonna get raped during the divorce, he lived with his parents. He moved in with his parents. So Callie and I got to stay in the same house. We never had to pack a suitcase, all this. So dad was on for five days, boom, then he's out. Mom was on for five days, boom, out. Yeah, did that for years. So, you know, then comes summertime. Dad's got to work, right? So he's off to work when it's his parenting time, like a normal father, probably leaves at eight o'clock and he's back by 4:35 o'clock. And then my mother, she was working as well. That's when she started the early childhood development center at the school we grew up in. So, yes, my sister's old enough to watch me. You know, it's not like they're leaving children to, you know, just not be taken care of. So my sister was doing her own thing, you know. Callie was very interested in this is a good question. What was my sister interested in? She loved shopping, so she would always be, you know, looking at something else at Target or whatever, but we weren't able to drive yet. So grandparents would be a big helping point. You know, they would come pick us up, we'd run errands. Nana would say, Um, oh my god, this is great. Claudia would be like, Well, where are we going, buddy? Well, Nana, I gotta go check out the okay. If this doesn't tell you exactly who I am as a saver, so so Claudia came over. I said, Nana, there's a toy that I want to go look at, and it's at Meyer. Okay, buddy, I don't know where Meijer is. No problem. I'll show you where it is. And literally, Claudia and I would get in the car. I don't know the names of roads, but Nana at the next light, turn right. Yeah, okay, we're gonna go straight picture. We're gonna go straight for a little while. Okay, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

That's so funny that you were like that because even like as an adult now, like I usually when I'm telling giving people directions, I'm like, oh yeah, you turn right at the Tim Horns, and then you go down about a half mile, and then it's on your left.

SPEAKER_04 11:20

Yeah. So then, you know, it's it's two miles down the road, and that's on the left. It's like so easy to remember. I'm not a savant. You know, this is just a piece of cake.

SPEAKER_08 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

We I said, Nina, uh, it's gonna be on the left coming up soon, and then we're gonna pull into the parking lot. Now, Claudia, sweetest thing, scoliosis, you know, just rods in her back, right? The last thing this gal probably wants to do is go walk around and cart you around. My and cart me around. So we then pull into the parking lot, we go, we then find the toy section. I look at the toy, I see the price. All right, I'm gonna have to think on this one. And she'd be like, Oh, you're not you're not buying it? No, I just want to confirm the price, see if it's you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Oh, yeah, because I was like before the internet, before you like see.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

This is how shopping was done.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

And she'd be like, Do you want me to buy it, buddy? No. No, I just want to see if I want to purchase it or not. All right, you want to go back to the house and play cards?

SPEAKER_07 12:25

And we go play gin. That's so funny. Oh my god, that's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

So that's like that's who I was as a kid, just this little weirdo saver. And so then, you know, through the divorce and everything, you know, my mom seen someone, my dad seen someone, and my mom, her partner, who was my future stepfather, you know, was around great people, very smart people. And I don't know what it was about these people, but they, I don't know if they saw something in me or whatever, but they started to educate me on money. So from the time I'm about parents got divorced when I'm eight or nine, you know, by 10, 11, I'm learning financial stuff already. And I'm hearing about retirement accounts, I'm hearing about the stock market, all this kind of stuff. Now I wish they would have told me, hey, take your lunch money and go buy that house in Pontiac.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

You know, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

You know, it is what it is. So by the time I'm 18, I already have a retirement account set up and how to contribute to that and all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of my balance.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

So needless to say, you've always been very in tune with um, what's the word? Like financial I guess the financial side of it.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

I've been I've been more in tune with just understanding the value of having your money work for you. But I I would give myself a C minus.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Which is crazy because I feel like they should teach that in school. You should one would think you should have, as much as you have like a wood shop class or a home at class, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

And these are electives you're speaking of.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

This should be mandatory. Yes, mandatory. This should be in the curriculum.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

A class that teaches you about credit, about loans, about interest rates.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

And devil's advocate, there are those classes. Well, just FYI.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Like I had a business math class when I was in high school.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

But like that wasn't anything other than like, here's how you balance a checkbook, which like nobody uses a checkbook now. So like, good thing I learned that because it didn't do anything for me. I guess if I ever, if the bank system ever collapses, I can go and balance my checkbook. But like all of the stuff, like teaching you how to like use a register, like all of that. Like, I didn't need to know any of that.

SPEAKER_08 15:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

So I feel like it should be a mandatory thing now that kids should have to take a class about like financials.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

But then how are they gonna build the workforce?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

You know?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah. But just like teaching kids that, like, hey, here's what your typical like mandatory debt is, which is like a mortgage, a rent, and then here's another mandatory, typical mandatory loan that you would have, which would be like a car payment or a car note.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

Like sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Um, but they don't teach kids that because they don't want the general public to be aware of these crazy interest rates that credit card companies charge. They don't want people to be aware of like you can totally get effed if you don't have somebody in your life that is telling you what you need to do.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

So I had a a former employee, this was probably five, four to five years ago, and I'm at a concert with him and his girlfriend at the time. And she was curious about financial advice and questions. And she said, Hey, if you don't mind, can I just you know pick your brain on something? I said, Absolutely, you can. And so she says, I think I'm in a little bit of trouble financially. I said, Okay, what do you got? She said, So here's my my credit card balance. And I said, Okay. She shows me it's like 3,600 bucks. And she said, you know, my mom told me as long as I make the minimum payment, that's not gonna hurt my credit score. And I said, Your mom is partially correct. It's not gonna hurt your credit score. Minimum payment, you're making it. But I said, such and such.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

It's gonna hurt your bank account.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Do you understand how this balance got this high? And she said, Well, I think so. And I said, Well, let's just say, let's keep numbers simple. Let's say your last statement was $1,000. Are you are you still with me? You spent $1,000 on something over the month. Yes. Okay, perfect. Now, what's your minimum payment? The credit card company might say your minimum payment's $35.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Okay. You still with me? Yep. So did you make that $35 payment? Yes, I did. Okay. Why didn't you make the $1,000 payment? Well, because my mom told me that I only needed to make the minimum. I said, okay. So here's the problem, such and such. That thousand dollars, do you know what your APR interest rate is on this credit card?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Usually about 25%.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

She of course didn't know that. She of course didn't know that number. Yeah. And I said, let's just keep it simple and say it's 25%. It's probably higher, but let's say it's 25%. You made the minimum payment. Okay. But you didn't make the full payment. So now $250 is going to be added to your next statement.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

$25 means nothing.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

And she goes, where's the $250 coming from? I said, so that's the $25% of the thousand.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

And I said, now can you imagine how quickly this can spiral out of control? You feel like you're making payments. You are, but you're not putting a dent in it. Correct. So then your next payment's going to be $12.50 plus if you spend another thousand. So now we're at $2,000 plus the $250. We're at $2,250. You make another minimum payment that brings it down to let's say just over $2,200. Now it's another 30, 25%. And I said, Do you see how people can get in this hole? And she says, Yes. And she said, Wow. And I said, school systems really fail you, don't they? And I said, I wish your mother would have given you better advice, but that's okay. We can tackle this. And I said, Are you comfortable opening up your checking account with me right now? And she said, Absolutely. So she shows me her checking account and her savings. And I think, you know, between the two of them, five, five grand. Okay, boom, bingo. We are we're good. I said, What are your what are your expenses like for the rest of the month? She goes over this and that. I said, Okay. You want the harsh reality? She said, Yeah. I said, it's gonna hurt. You're gonna pay that statement off tomorrow. And she goes, What do you mean? I said, You're gonna pay that balance in full, that $3,600 or whatever. And I said, Don't get attached to a number. Your value that you have is not five, six thousand dollars in this world. Okay. So what I need you to do is I need you to buckle up because I know you just told me what your expenses are. You're gonna make it, but it's gonna be tight. When's your next paycheck? I don't know, a week or whatever. Okay, cool. This gets paid tomorrow.

SPEAKER_05 19:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

And I it's gonna suck, but guess what? You are clean.

SPEAKER_05 20:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

You are you don't owe anyone any other money. And I said, you cut up that card. You don't ever use it until you know you can pay that balance in full next month. There's nothing wrong with using a credit card. Nope. You can totally use it. You want to get some points, some miles, that's fine. But it's so much easier to run plastic than cold hard cash.

SPEAKER_08 20:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

So what I recommend to you tomorrow, it's paid off in full. You have barely any money, you're gonna get paid in five days. Yep. And you run a debit. You buy your groceries, you buy whatever, get rid of that debt immediately. And I I I think she did it. I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Well, that brings us to our talking point is that you just mentioned like there is a time and a place for a credit card, right? For for personal, there's a time and place to have an emergency credit card. Like, let's say it's the beginning of the month. I have allocated X, Y, and Z for my business.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Is this a W-2 employee?

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So I have allocated X, Y, I'm gonna use myself for an example. I've allocated X, Y, and Z for my expenses. So pretty much my first paycheck is towards all of my expenses. Okay. Oh shoot, one of the dogs has a doctor's visit. Sure. And it ends up being one of them has an ear infection.

SPEAKER_07 21:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

And I need to take care of that. They need um they need a blood, they need blood work, all of that.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So I get to check out their $465 that's due, which obviously I didn't budget for because I just explained that my first paycheck was going to X, Y, and Z, all of my bills.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

And that second paycheck that's coming in two weeks is going to be more so that fun money that you discussed. Correct. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

So there is a time and place. What I'm trying to say is there is a time and place to have an emergency credit card. On the personal side, not the business side, but the personal side. Because you know, you have to be able to have emergencies and have money to be able to make those emergencies. And your intention is to pay it off once when statement is due. Perfect. Correct. So that's the way that you can use it to your advantage. But unfortunately, I think we looked this up the other night. The typical household debt in the United States is between like six and twelve thousand dollars. My parents, for instance, when I was just credit cards. Correct. My parents growing up had about four to five credit cards totaling about $23,000. Just my parents would make a payment. And then, for instance, you'll get a kick out of this one. My mother, she had an express credit card. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

We all know the store because great clothes.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

My mom was known by name at all of the four Metro Detroit locations in this. She would walk in the store and people would be like, Hey Jan. And so what would happen is, and my mom would tell the same story is that she was so hard up because she got this corporate job. She needed money. She needed clothes for this job, which she didn't have. And so she got the same thing. She got their credit card. She would go in and make a payment. And then a couple weeks later, go in and make a purchase and essentially max out the credit card again. Go in, make payment. And this was Brince and repeat. Yes, this was what it was.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

How many outfits did she need for this corporate job?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

I have no idea. But you know my mom, she loves to shop.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I mean, now she's in a very different financial position than she was back then. So she's a savage. And I'm sure she doesn't have this type of stuff, but my mom got duped into the whole, you know, oh, it's an in-store credit card, and you can only use it here. So that's the benefit. And, you know, you get points for your purchases. Meanwhile, your points is like five dollars for every thousand dollars that you spend. So like you can keep your five dollars.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

So basically, the uh the Kleenexes are on us.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yes. So all that to say, like so many people fall into the trap with credit cards on a personal side where they get this notification in the mail. I mean, you know, we get probably at least a couple of them every single day of all these people that want to give us credit cards. And so many people fall into the trap of like, you know, they get an offer in the mail, and it's like, oh, I can give you a $1,500 credit line, and all you need to do is call this number. You're already pre-approved.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

So psychology of that is fascinating, right? Because everybody wants to be a part of something, everyone wants to feel special.

SPEAKER_05 25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

So the marketing is just genius because you have been pre-selective.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

We want you.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

We want you specifically.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

We want you.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Catherine, you're amazing.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

But it's also just crazy because, like, where are they getting the information? Like, I literally bought some underwear from Victoria's Secret.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Yeah, you did, mommy.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

It was just regular underwear. Um, two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 25:30

Doesn't matter, thong. Regular. Whatever. All looks great on you.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Two weeks ago from Victoria's Secrets website, and I go to like check out, and they're like, You've been pre-approved for a Victoria's Secret credit card. And I'm like, you don't even have like my social security number. You don't have like any of my personal information. So, like, how do you know that I'm pre-approved for a Victoria's Secret credit card?

SPEAKER_04 25:54

So it's just Where the perks with a Victoria's Secret credit card.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

I'll have to look into that.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah, maybe you look into that. But, anyways, like I feel like it's so easy for people to fall into the trap of these credit cards. And in my mind, you should you should every household should have an emergency credit card. Sure. That you use only, like I said, in case of emergencies. Emergencies, not meaning like, oh yeah, I want to go out to this nice and fancy dinner. So like I'm gonna use the credit card. I'm talking emergency. You your hot water heater breaks, you need a new hot water heater, and you don't have the money right now, but you need it to function. Your house needs it. So you go and put it on your credit card, and then you pay it off.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

I agree with that. I think that's a great thing to have. Personally, I would rather just have emergency cash.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Or that.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

You know, there and that's just my thinking of it. But so many people say you know where the emergency cash is in our house, right? It's just it's there.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

But so many people say that like cash is king. You should always have cash on hand. But you know, I do see a point for people to use an emergency credit card as long as they plan on paying it off by the end of that month, because then you're not being charged any interest because you're paying it off by the time you know the statement.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

Well, you give I I want to get your thoughts on this.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

So you brought up a water heater, right? Water heater, air conditioner, furnace. Same shit, if you ask me. Okay, we got a 22-year-old for uh air conditioner out there. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

20-year-old furnace. Okay. Or I think it's flipped, yeah, but whatever.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

Same as cash.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

You know more than likely they are going to have a 0% for 12 months. Take it and run. It's free money. Yep. Now, Catherine, do we have I'm I'm not being factual. Let's say we got eight grand of cash. Yeah. That's our emergency cash. And the new air conditioning unit's $4,200.

SPEAKER_06 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

What are what are you doing and what do you want, what do you think I want to do?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Well, I uh after knowing you, I know what I would do.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

No, no, no. Before knowing me, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Before knowing you, I would just go take the cash and pay for it.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Okay, nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

But knowing what I know now from you and how we've talked through a lot of our financial differences, um, I would take the 0%, put probably a little bit more towards it every single month. Good girl.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

Good girl. So your payments probably gonna be a little over $400 a month, right? So here's the here's what you gotta do and to protect yourself. Let's say it's $422 exactly to pay that off in 12 months. I'm just I'm spitballing, I'm making up numbers. And you know, $422, you pay that every month, it's a 0% loan. The loan is clear at the end of 12 months. You should be paying $450, $465, maybe even $500, because you don't want any glitch in the system of one payment is missed. Because why is that, Catherine?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Because a payment missed goes on your credit.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Well, yeah, but let's just say somehow there's a glitch.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Well, because typically there is line items in these contracts where if you missed one payment, they can call all of the interest due that you would have been charged.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

True, not one, but it's more so if the end balance doesn't get paid.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

Or that, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

Yeah. So if you are let's just say $250 short. That sucks because that statement hits you don't get it paid. You could be charged $25 to $27 to 32% of that original $4,000 loan. And this is that's gonna add up real quick.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

This same concept that we're talking about about 0% loans, about how you know leverage somebody else's money is the same thing that we talk about for Jake's business. Like when he, you know, Jake loves to pay cash for certain things, but there are other things when you're talking about buying, you know, an $18,000, $19,000 mower and you're being offered same as cash. Why wouldn't you take that? Play with somebody else's money versus your own. Yeah, you have it on your credit, but like it's going to get paid. Every payment that you make makes the balance goes down. It goes towards your uh credit history of your on-time payments. You know, it brings down your utilization every single time you make it.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

And you should be taking some of these loans, these 0% loans out in your business EIN. You should not be taking all of these out in your personal name. Now, the reason I say that is one, you want to establish business credit for your company. Two, you don't want to max yourself out because you might be doing, you might be making a killing where you're walking away with every week six to eight thousand dollars, right? And you're like, I can I can totally afford this. But you might have a house, you might have two work trucks, eventually you are maxed out from a banking standpoint, and you're gonna get denied a zero percent loan. So you have to make sure you're diversifying your portfolio.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

But also, like what happens when you have a slow month? You know, then you've used all your cash to buy something. And granted, you could always sell it if you get hard up on cash, but at the same time, like affording a payment is much easier than going and spending, you know, thirty thousand dollars on a new car or a new mow or whatever the case may be. So I think that a lot of people have this idea that, like, oh, I'm gonna pay cash because I don't want to have a loan, which in all reality is a good thing. However, if you are offered something with an extremely low interest rate, you should take it.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

And I'm not saying you need you should be doing this on everything. You know what I mean? Like the the air conditioning unit, do it. You know, you're you're a normal W-2 employee, take advantage of that. But you shouldn't then be doing zero percent on, oh, I want to get a sauna and a cold plunge.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Nope. Mm-mm. No, no, that is a luxury to have those.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

So tell me how it works for you because you have um obviously you borrow in your business name, but your business is also tied to your personal. So how does that work where you were just mentioning the differentiation where buy it in your business name so that you know it doesn't go into you personally, but also you buy things where it's tied to both. So, like how does that work?

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Well, for anybody who I don't really tie things to both. I'm not taking out a truck loan and it's not tied to both.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

But you said that your tax ID number for your business is tied to you personally.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Technically.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

So technically, are you borrowing in both names or are you only borrowing in the business name?

SPEAKER_04 33:23

So the the application process, uh, give me an example of something that was recently purchased and financed.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

The most recent mower.

SPEAKER_04 33:31

Okay. So that is completely 100% in my EIN, my employee identification number. Now, am I the owner of the company? Yes, but it is established on the credit of my business. And is there anything that people need to do to make sure it's done that way, or do you just have to give the EIN number when you are So you you know, I think someone's gonna have a hard time if they haven't pulled out um anything with their business before. You know, if it if they've just done a loan in their own social security number in their own name.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

This might actually be a great point to start um because you're getting a zero percent.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

So maybe just do like your first one with both names on it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Yeah, yeah. Maybe have your business be a co-signer or you, you know, I'm sorry, reverse that. You take it out in your business name, you co-sign it under yourself. You're the guarantor. Now you that might be that actually might be a really good starting point is buying a mower and trying to do it in your business name.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Yeah, I was just curious if like you remembered what you did because obviously, you know, we have a mortgage, we have, you know, other things, you know, you have a personal credit card, you have a business credit card, like all of that. So I always wonder like how that works because like it's obviously tied to your business, but also like your business is tied to you personally, and like but then you have obviously your LLC that's protecting you and your your family. And I only know it from like the mortgage side of things, which I deal with, which is like people will typically borrow in an LLC, um, but I have never like really understood how that works. Where like, okay, clearly there's a member of the LLC. So how does that, you know?

SPEAKER_04 35:28

Yep. And I totally, you know, I understand that, you know, I hope there's some 16 or 17-year-old kid listening to this. I understand because we talked about this the other night. I understand the fear of taking out a loan. You know, but numbers do not lie. So if you know what you're making with your 30 clients a week and you know what it costs you to fill up that mower every week, fill up your truck, your trailer, you know, your maintenance. And then you should be having emergency fund for that, where you know, okay, if an axle snaps or a leaf spring snaps, I I've got money already set aside for that. But I'm telling you, math and numbers do not lie. So you know what you can afford. You should absolutely, in my opinion, if you are offered a zero percent loan for a mower, um, traditionally that's kind of all it's gonna be. You might not be able to get a you definitely won't get a zero percent for a loan, uh a pole barn or a workshop for your business, whatever. Yeah. Um you you should take advantage of that because, like we've talked about, emergency situations come up. You should always have cash on hand for that. You have brought a great point up with the emergency credit card. I I try not to have the emergency credit card thing. Um, but there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

I'm speaking of it as like a single girl.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Like I always had something just in case you know, something were to happen. Like, because like you said, I've never relied on anybody. So if an emergency was to come up, I had peace of mind knowing okay, I have this money, I'm not using it, but if I need to, I know it's there just in case.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

Yeah, no, I think that's great. Um so absolutely, you gotta leverage. Um, and then you know, I got a great loan at the time. Um, it's just post-COVID for the RAM. You know, that was my first new vehicle I've ever purchased. Put a great uh sizable down payment on. Could have put more. Nope, I'm keeping my cash on hand, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:54

And I had oh because just to be clear, guys, in the grand scheme of things, they try to tell you to make as much down payment as possible. Doesn't make a difference, it changes your payment by like $30 if you do an additional couple thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

So you're telling me that extra five you're putting down is worth the $30 savings a month. It's the same thing. You can't go to Starbucks three times.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Exactly. It's it's the same concept that they tell people for mortgages when you go to apply one for one. It's like, oh yeah, you know, you should put the 20% down so that you aren't paying PMI, which is oh man, that $86 a month. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:32

Oh, it is well worth $80,000.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

So they try to tell people this because they want you to get rid of all of your cash. And then meanwhile, you know, all of this potential stuff that can happen, your escrow account could go up and then your payment goes up by two, three hundred dollars. We have experience with this, and nobody, you know, has that extra money because you've just used it all on your down payment. So it's just trying to be smarter with your money, not even necessarily act like you have it all together, but just know that anytime any lending institution is trying to get you to give them more money, there's usually a caveat to it, and it usually doesn't end up in your favor.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Come tax time too.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Debt is a good thing. So good. But then when we silver out of it. Here we go. So continuing off the RAM. So, you know, it was like low threes for this brand. Great rate. Great rate, right? All right, cool. So then, but again, I don't want to make anyone more rich than they deserve. You have given me a great interest rate. You're making money on me. I'm able to have a great truck making me money.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yep. Everybody wins.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Have your standard 60-month loan that was paid off in 38 months because I was so sick of just like it was great to have the help. I don't need the help. Yeah, I I don't, it's time now to diversify my portfolio again. I'm gonna just keep paying chunks off, and then it's gone.

SPEAKER_08 40:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

So then come, okay, this is great. So I need to create a little bit more leverage within my business. 2024, I need to purchase a truck. I gotta offset some tax liability. So literally December.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Can you explain that to people who may not know what that means?

SPEAKER_04 40:43

Sure. Um, so let's say Jake grossed $300,000 with his business and his expenses are $100,000. So that's $200K that I'm gonna be taxed on. Do I want to give that money to Uncle Sam or do I want to give that money back to me? I think the answer is pretty clear. I want to give it back to me.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Right. Invest in your business. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Okay, so we're gonna offset this by buying a $60,000 truck.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

So that reduces your, let's say, $200,000 profit margin that they're saying that you made by the $60,000. So you're essentially showing you're making $140,000.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

And you have to obviously read the tax code. Certain weight of your vehicle is a hundred percent write-off. Sometimes it's only 80%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just I'm trying to give a little bit of nuance to this.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:38

And now, could I take that full sixty thousand dollar tax write-off? Let's say I get a hundred percent write-off. Could I take that all in one year, Catherine?

SPEAKER_00 41:47

No. Or wait, yes, you can.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

I can.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

Now that's when you have a good CPA. We've talked about this.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Yep. The importance of now.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Do I want the sitting? And they're gonna get they have your best interest at heart. So then you figure out, okay, am I taking the full write-off this year or am I stretching this across five years? Yep. So it this will be a conversation that you have with your CPA and all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

So, anyways, buy isn't that called technically there, you're writing off the depreciation of the vehicle? Isn't that what it is?

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Yeah, this is getting a little technical for me. Um, you do get to write off depreciation, you do get to write off interest uh on you know, debt, good thing, right? You also get to write off the interest on the loan every single year.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Are you able to um just a side note question? Are you able to write off a, like let's say you need to spend money for your business, are you able to write off a used vehicle or does it have to be new?

SPEAKER_04 42:47

It can absolutely be used. Oh, okay. Is that used truck going to be used for work?

SPEAKER_00 42:51

No, I know. I didn't know if like, you know, it was a government incentive to like buy new to obviously incentivize people to go to like the big three to buy, you know, no new vehicles.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

I don't know those numbers off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:06

Could a used vehicle be a hundred percent write-off? I'm I'm almost certain. Yeah, but it might not be. I don't know that tax code in front of me, not a hundred percent sure. Um, so I go to purchase this. Now, granted, I'm going through a divorce and I am one, I have to protect myself, I have to protect my investments. I'm not trying to screw anybody over, but I I cannot afford to give Uncle Sam more than he deserves. And so my attorney says, hey, just make sure you purchase this vehicle, go for it. You need it. You you need this for your business. Make sure it's at your business name and not your personal. Okay, not a problem. So I go, and this is how you just get fucked. My interest rate that I was approved for as Jacob Meisner was like at the time 475 or something like that. Not great.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

But not terrible.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

But for the rates that were currently going in the market, great. Then if you take out a commercial loan, totally different. 7%, 8%, 9%.

SPEAKER_08 44:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

And I'm looking and I'm going, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're telling me, because I need to buy this in my business. I'm the owner of the company. Here's my social security number. Here's my EIN.

SPEAKER_06 44:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 44:42

My interest rate is this? Yeah, this is unfortunately how it works with commercial.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

But just like to give anybody an idea, it's the same with taking out a mortgage in the business side. When I do commercial mortgages where you're borrowing in an LLC or whatever the case may be, you're looking at rates of upwards of about 10, 11% versus the standard rates that people are getting right now, which is like mid sixes, low fives.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

Now, there is a pro to that though, like I just said, the like you said, depreciation, interest rates. You are able, the interest that you are paying, instead of paying six percent, you're paying, or excuse me, four percent as your personal, you're paying seven, eight percent in your business. It does come back to help you. Yeah in the end. Does the payment suck? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 45:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

But you you you technically you're putting money back in your pocket. So why wouldn't you take out the loan?

SPEAKER_05 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

Can you afford the payment? Yes, I can. Yeah, it sucks to see that number, just pay it off early.

SPEAKER_05 45:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Or write it out. That's when you talk to your CPA and they're like, oh, actually, don't pay this off early. Right. You need this depreciation. Or, you know, the what we were talking about. Yeah. Miles, you gotta go outside. Come on, big boy.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yeah, it's a lot of um things that, like you said, they're all nuances where unless you know these things, you can get very fucked very quickly. And that's like the really unfortunate part is that, you know, even a class in school about starting a business and you know, certain things that you should understand, it's very much on people nowadays to figure it out for themselves, which granted nobody owes you anything. But at the same time, when you know you're trying to contribute to the economy by starting your own business or investing in your business and uh buying a vehicle or buying equipment, which then you know keeps the economy running because you're buying something from a store, a dealership, or whatever the case is. I just think it's very you know unfortunate that people don't get taught this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

And you get so many people who get themselves into a lot of really, really bad debt for no reason other than things that weren't told any better.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Yeah. But I'll tell you what, in this day and age, there's no excuse to not understand. You have a question about your finances or your financial situation, Google or Chat GPT. It is going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

But I'm saying that like even some people don't even have the wherewithal to do that because they just assume this is how the this is how the world works. True. So they probably don't even question it.

SPEAKER_08 47:56

True.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

And they just say, okay, well, like this is just you know how it is. And you know, we're so blessed that we've had people in our lives that have told us, like, oh yeah, you should do this. Like I remember when I was going to buy my first house, I was 20, 22 years old. And I was like, you know, going back and forth about renting versus buying, just kind of trying to figure out what was the best idea for me. I didn't really want to be stuck in a specific area, but my ex-father-in-law at the time told me he said the best thing that you can do is invest in property. The best. If there is no other investment you make in your life, the best thing that you can do is invest in property.

SPEAKER_08 48:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

It'll stand through the test of time. Granted, there will be highs and lows in the market and anything, but you'll always have that property to hang on to. And I'm so glad he told me that because he was the reason why I ended up purchasing a home. And then when I ended up going to sell it, you know, what was it? Almost 10 years later, made double what I bought it for.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

Yeah, but what I what I I still talk about this to this day, and you're not giving yourself enough credit. The single gal who has managed her money, you have fun money, you have your expense money, you had $19 to your name after you signed the closing papers.

SPEAKER_08 49:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Talk about putting your faith in God, putting your faith in yourself, and you knew your paycheck was coming. You you you knew. But imagine having $19.

SPEAKER_05 49:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

Right? You know, I could I get emotional thinking about this because I'm so proud of you. But then ten years later, you go to sell this house and you're getting a check for well over a hundred thousand dollars. And I'm like, I look at you and I go, look, look at what you did. Yeah, you're like, oh well, it's the housing market, it's just how it goes. There's ups and downs. I said, Catherine, who was post-divorce, yeah, all on her own, since the time she was 16 years old, yeah, $19, and you're being cut a check for well over a hundred thousand dollars, and you're just like, you didn't think it was that big of a deal. And I'm just like, I am so fucking proud of you. Like, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Well, thank you. I feel like a lot of times, um, you know, you obviously don't see the like smart decisions that you make um, you know, until after the fact. And I feel like, you know, at the time, my ideal situation, I think this was part of the reason why I wasn't like so gung-ho about it, is that my ideal situation was that we would buy another house and then we would keep that and use it as a rental because I had such a low payment. I mean, it was like eight or like it was so you're locked in at this low rate. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

And you know it's a cute house. Yeah, it's not in a rundown area. Yeah, oh my god, I would have loved to have kept it for us.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Yeah, would love to like rent it out or something, but that just wasn't in the card for us, and that's fine. Um, but you know, what I was trying to get at is that so many things in life are scary, right? Like there's, you know, you go and do this, but I thought to myself, I'm 22 years old. My income is only going to go up, right? You hope. Like you start, this was when I had just started my corporate job.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

So I was like, You're at a very entry level.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Yep. I know who I am, I know what my work ethic is, I know I'm gonna climb the ladder. So, like what I'm making now to be able to buy this house is not going to be what my future is. But like you said, it's investing in yourself. It's saying, like, no, I can do this. I believed that I could do it, and then I did. And um, you know, it was just crazy that you know, you buy this home and then you have, you know, a couple dollars in your bank account until you get paid again. But hey, it worked out, and that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty incredible when you you have a little bit of vision. And I think don't get me wrong, God is giving you the strength to believe in yourself. So first and foremost, you are putting all of your eggs and faith in God. But all you're also putting faith in yourself.

SPEAKER_05 52:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

And I remember purchasing that house in Clarkston.

SPEAKER_05 52:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:54

And you know, it's in a blue-collar neighborhood. Yeah. You know, not saying it's a bad neighborhood, not saying it's a great neighborhood.

SPEAKER_05 53:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

But it was gonna be a great first house for me. Yep. And my ex-wife at the time said, I d I don't see it. And I said, give me five years. I'll make a hundred grand on this. She's like, okay. And four years later, going through my divorce, made ninety-seven thousand dollars on the house. When you have vision, yeah, and you and you you actually do your research and you evaluate to the best of your knowledge everything, you just figure it out. You figure it out, and what a blessing that home was for me during my divorce.

SPEAKER_05 53:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:55

Because I was able to use that as leverage to end that chapter of my life and give her her money.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

And come out unscathed.

SPEAKER_04 54:06

Come out unscathed.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 54:10

It all works out in the end.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

It's we always talk about how like God always makes a way. You know, you may not understand it at the time, you may not understand why things happen the way that they do, but he always makes a way. You can always look back on things and understand exactly why they happened the way that they did. I didn't really know anything about money until, and the crazy thing is, I didn't really realize all of these things about money until I started getting back into like the dating game, believe it or not. Like that is what made me like, because you know, you're dating, you're going out on a series of bad dates, you know, every other person on these dating apps, or whoever you meet in person is like, Oh, I'm a financial advisor or whatever. Um, and so you know, you fill time on a date with like talking about your job and your occupation, and of course, like you're asking questions, just trying to get through the night, right? And so a lot of what I learned was from these conversations with people, these like mortgage bankers or whatever. And like if you're just open to hearing what other people have to say or advice that they may give you, where you're kind of like, well, like I don't really think you you kind of know what you're talking about, but you hear what they're saying and you're like, oh yeah, like that kind of actually makes sense. Like maybe I should start applying this into like my daily life. I remember one person I went on a date with was like, you should be max like every time you get a raise, you should put that extra money in your 401k.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

It's like you don't even have it.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Exactly. Act like you don't even have it because you're already making your life.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

You already know your but your expenses are covered.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah, you're already comfortable.

SPEAKER_04 56:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

So if you're gonna get it, your a standard standard living raise, which is three percent, which is really nothing, but take that three percent, apply it additionally towards your retirement. So instead of making the minimum five percent, you know, um contribution, you're gonna up it to eight percent. Yep. And then the next year you're gonna up it to eight. Oh, and guess what?

SPEAKER_04 56:26

Your employees match in.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 56:29

Up to a certain percentage, but yeah. Yeah, but there are certain so there you go, leveraging again, someone else's money.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yes. But at the same time, like all of these things, like I would never have known had I not been open to hear what people had to say. If I went through life thinking, like, no, I'm just gonna like pave my own way with money and do that. Like, no, there people have good advice. That's why we talk about stuff like this, because something that we say, maybe like the person who's on the fence about getting a brand new mower and taking it, whether I should take a loan or you know, all of this life savings I have from my business.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

You shouldn't be basing your decision off of what JLC and Catherine are saying. You should take it food for thought.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Exactly. Yep. And if you're thinking, okay, maybe I should take out all of the money I have for my business to buy a new mower, or should I take out a loan? Like this conversation, the this is why we talk about stuff like this, because it's meant to help you and give you maybe a different insight than maybe you thought prior.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Yeah. And I feel like, too, as much as it is to hear the success stories of other people and and how they've done it, what a value it is to see all the losers. Oh, yeah. Too. You know, just the people that have no idea what they're doing. And one, I mean, two minutes into a conversation, you can tell this person has no idea what they're doing. But it's also great to see someone who got lucky.

SPEAKER_06 57:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 57:58

Something just it fell in their lap, and then you realize, oh my god, if it weren't for that one conversation, or that they'd be nothing. There's been a lot of those people in my life, and you don't want to be that loser who is counting on, you know, whether it's the the the family member dying or they're waiting on to inherit the business, or this and that. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people that can be trust fund kids or people that are inheriting something.

SPEAKER_05 58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

And good for them. They're they're very fortunate that they have uh a family business that they're able to inherit, but I can tell you they're gonna drive it into the ground.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 58:44

And you can learn so much from the losers.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

I've always said that there's really a true grit that you have when you are a self-made person. And self-made could mean a lot of different things. For me, it means I've been on my own since I was 16 years old. The only thing my parents provided was lodging. You know, we were responsible for buying our own food, toiletries, anything that we wanted, like we had to pay for. And having to learn how to manage money from such a young age, I feel like is really what helped me moving forward in my life. Sure, I've made mistakes along the way. When I was 18 years old, I got offered a credit card, of you know, a college credit card for a $500 limit. And what did I do the first month? I max that out. And then, like we were talking about interest rates, they charge you interest, and then you're like, oh no, now I've got this big balance.

SPEAKER_04 59:44

I've got a because you didn't pay it in full. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Now you've got this big balance that you have to pay off, and then you know, um Yeah, $500 to a college kid. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

That's tough.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

And and like we've talked about the psychology. It's so much easier to swipe a piece of plastic versus handing somebody five hundred dollars cash. It's so much easier.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

So many people in business will tell you that use cash as much as you can because you're physically seeing it leave you versus using your debit card or your credit card, whatever. I can go to a store and spend a hundred. The other day, for instance, when I had to stop at Costco and I had to stop at Target.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

I took some cash with me instead of using my card because it's so much easier to go there and spend whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

You're looking at the price point of everything you put in your card.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Exactly. Because I'm like, this is how much cash I have. I have to make sure it's under this because I need to, I want to just pay cash. I don't want to use my card. I don't want to be done with it. And it's a different feeling when you're watching it leave you versus oh yeah, I'm just gonna swipe my card and then I'm not even gonna worry about it. I'll look at my balance in a couple days, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

So um okay. So before because I can't even believe how long this podcast is actually at this point. I feel like we've been talking only for five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

How long is it?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

We're already over an hour.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

So let's do kind of the, in my opinion, the last talking point.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:21

Credit cards. Are they worth it or not worth it? I know we've kind of been hinting at credit cards, we've been talking a little bit, but do you feel that the value is there? Are they far too dangerous? Are they far too risky? Are they, yep, you need them?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

I feel like it's unfortunately a case-by-case basis. I don't think that I can speak blanket about it, but I will say that from my own personal perspective, I don't think that there's anything good about having a credit card. I do think that you should have an emergency credit card because there is a time and a place for that, but that should be in a drawer that you do not touch. You don't even have it in your wallet because you don't even want the temptation to use it when you're out somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

And you're so you're about 95% Ramsey. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

But like I love it. But like, for instance, if I'm gonna go to Home Goods one day, or if I'm somebody and I'm going to Home Goods and I'm like, wow, I see this, you know, and we know Home Goods, TJ Maxx. Like once you see it, if you don't buy it then, you'll probably never see it again because they never really have the same things twice. So if I see, oh my God, there's this really beautiful table that would fit perfectly in our house that I really, really want to buy, but I don't want to, you know, spend the money on it right now. But I've got this emergency credit card, you know, in my wallet. Having it in my wallet means I'm gonna be tempted to think about it and I'm gonna be tempted to use it for this purchase that in all reality I don't need, but I just want. So I think that there is a time and a place for a credit card. I don't really care about the miles or the points like you do. That kind of stuff really doesn't matter to me. Um, but I will just say that there is so much danger in using a credit card on a regular basis. It is so easy to just go, yeah, I'm gonna use this because I'm not seeing it leave my account. My my uh bank account stays the same, but my credit card balance is going up. And, you know, then you look at it a couple weeks later after you've used it for a couple things and you're like, oh my god, how did my balance get to $400? So it's you know inherent for everybody how they want to use them, but I think my general consensus would be like, once my credit card is paid off that I have right now, I'm not gonna use a credit card. If I don't have the money for it, I'm just not gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:10

Good for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:12

That's awesome. That's a great discipline. Um I'm 50-50. You know, I I think it's great. I am not putting something on my credit card that I know I can't pay for. I remember being 14, 15 years old, and my dad saying, you know, when you get to the point of being able to have a credit card, you're of age, and all this. So it started with Jake, here is an ATM card. You know, you're 12 years old or whatever. You can use this. So you know how you're cutting lawns for Steve and Joe and all this. That's that money's gonna go into your bank account, and this is your ATM card to withdraw.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

You had one that young?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:52

Probably at 10.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

That's so cute.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:54

Yeah, maybe maybe 10 years old. So I knew you know, all the money that I had cash, I could keep it in my wallet. But what kid's gonna keep all this cash in his wallet or his piggy bank? So I would take that cash, use my ATM card at Bank of America right next to Somerset, and I would put that into the ATM. And then if I wanted to go to the movies with friends or whatever, I knew that I could stop at the ATM. I could pull out that cash because it is safe in the bank. Is it really safe though? Um, but I had that money. Sure, I got 40, 60 bucks in my wallet, but if I needed, I could go to that.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:35

So then you graduate. And dad says, Okay, so you now have a debit card, Jake. So this debit card you can use anywhere you want. You're gonna have a PIN and all this kind of stuff. So it's gonna be a little bit different than your ATM card. You're gonna have you're actually gonna be physically able to use this card.

unknown 1:05:59

It's gonna

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

be easy to use it. Make sure you're checking your balances, making sure you have enough money, all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, Jake, when you're ready and you feel old enough to have a credit card, there's going to be a difference. The credit card is not coming out of what your debit card is reflecting your balance. You need to pay this off. And don't you dare buy something that you can't afford to pay in a month. So Jake, you got a thousand dollars in your bank account. You want the, you know, the time, you know, getting looking at a little mower or whatever. You want that Cub Cadet 33 inch mower. It's $1,200. What are you doing? Well I'm saving my money until I have the $1200. He said that technically proud of you. That's a good good thinking. You could put it on your credit card. You don't have the money right now to pay it off though. Now you have time because you have you you know that you have a month from when that statement comes out and all this. But if you can't afford it buddy I wouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:14

And it's stuck with me ever since. And I got you know some credit cards with some high limits. I I I don't dare come close to the limit because as you know it hurts your credit score.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

The utilization of your credit and all that kind of stuff. But uh I don't ever stretch it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:36

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:37

I've never missed a payment in my life. I've never been late on a payment in my life.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:42

And I was blessed to have that conversation with my father. I was blessed to have connections with um people from my stepfather teaching me about financial education, all that kind of stuff. I've been very, very blessed to be equipped with these lessons. But I'm still 50-50. I think it like you said it's a dangerous road.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:06

It's a dangerous road. You know my next uh credit card statement on one of them's like 10 grand or whatever like that. And I'm not worried about it. The money's there. Does it suck seeing that balance? Yeah. But it all whether it's 10 grand out of my debit card for the month or it's 10 grand on my credit card it's the same shit at the end of the day. And guess what some of these credit cards I got my miles I got my cash back and like how cool is it because I'm disciplined I can afford that credit card and it's getting us miles and guess what? You know you and I talk about going to Greece. Right? We've talked about that. Trips taken care of already.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:54

I work hard I am smart with my money. I've got hundreds of thousands of miles saved up that I can use them whenever I want.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

And now whether you and I want to fly first class to Greece, we're not going to pay a penny. So there's pros and cons to all of it. You have to pick and choose what's best for you. You have to decide do I have the discipline for a credit card? And do I want, you know, and it's not it's not like this is amazing having these miles. It's amazing having the two 2.5% cash back. You can live without it can totally live without it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:35

But hey it's a little perk.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

I'm disciplined I know I'm not going to have late payments. I know I'm not paying any interest because I've established that discipline it's great. You get a little a little treat.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

And nowadays I feel like you have to have some kind of credit out there to be able to play ball let's say in today's society. 100% because everything relies on it nowadays. I mean for God's sakes your car insurance is now they can use part of your credit score which I don't even know how your credit score correlates with your car insurance but whatever insurance companies will use whatever they can to raise your rates.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:21

Wow I can't wait to talk about this with you off the podcast. I I have so many questions.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Yeah. But anyway just as a future planning tool for any of anybody that has a kid and who wants to create some financial stability for your kid for their future don't sleep on the idea of when your child becomes of age putting them on your credit card that you are paying off every single month to help them build their credit because you want to set your kid up for success. If it was me, I want to prevent Zeke from ever needing to go out and have a credit card to build his credit on his own. As his mother I want to set him up for the most success as possible. So if I have a credit card that I'm paying off every month, I want to add him onto that. So then he's getting the benefit of me making these on-time payments of me making all of these you know all of these things. And so if there is any type of advice that I have learned recently that I would give people it's that if you have kids that are getting into their teenage years and you want to kind of start teaching them a little bit about it, add them to your credit card. Add them to something that you have that is going to build their credit for their financial future because like we said nobody talks about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

Yeah and what is that is it like 12 years old?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

I think it's either 12 or 16. I want to say it's 12 but it may be flip-flop because I know there have been a couple people who have tried to put their children on their houses and you can only do it at a certain age so I don't know if I'm getting them confused but I think it's either 12 or 16 that you can start asking now what about um putting their children on their houses and LLCs that does that change things with age putting there because you know how a lot of these companies will buy their homes in LLCs like you and I have talked about what if Zeke is six years old and he has an LLC setup? It wouldn't be something that you would want to do I don't think that they can even go on title until they're at least 16 years old.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

Because they don't have a driver's license so they wouldn't have any identification should they try to go and sell it which is one of the major things you have to have.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:53

But what if what if I'm a trust fund kid I'm 10 years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:59

My dad built a business whatever dad unexpectedly dies but I'm I'm I'm savvy at 10 years old. He's got a birth certificate if the father is money savvy he's already made LLCs for his son.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

If the father is money savvy he would have created a trust and put the house in the name of the trust and the trust would then sell the home the money would go to the trust and the trust would disperse money to you as needed.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:32

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Yes. What if I'm 10 years old and I want to make a huge investment and my trust is limiting my expenses that I'm you can't your trust is a directive of how you want your money to be once you pass or become incapacitated. So that basically is your law your Bible pretty much of how you want your money to be dispersed. So if you write in your trust I you're saying the father writing your trust like if he's preparing this and he is saying because I've read through hundreds of trusts in my time and title insurance and you wouldn't believe the stuff that people write in there. Sometimes it's like if my child gets married to somebody to X person they're out of my trust or if somebody does this so you can really make it whatever you want it to score money. Right. So if I want to go and say I'm going to create a trust Zeke if we pass before Zeke is 18 years old and can access this money on his own he is to be able to go to the person who is the trustee of this trust and say I want to go buy a car for my 16th birthday I would like to take out X amount and the trustee can approve you know whatever he wants to buy.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:57

Now could someone have a line item where obviously let's say um you know in this trust um it will not exceed $150,000 a year. Okay. And let's say you know I am the trust for you know I'm writing this trust for Zeke if anything happens to us.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:20

And I'm limiting him to $150,000 a year. And let's say there's millions of dollars in that trust could I put a line item or a red line and say you know obviously my son is my son. I love him. I I want him I want to set him up for success I have put this $150,000 cap. But let's just say you know he's 12 years old he's got this brilliant business idea and he needs $400,000 could I put in that trust like his business plan has to be rock solid could he fail?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Absolutely but if he's got you know whatever clause it is or he's got is there a way that I could put if he sells you on this idea once every five years whatever he wants um I mean and any attorney would advise you to not get that specific with things that you would want to do what you would do is you would appoint the person who's the trustee of your trust to make these decisions. So like let's say we had a trust and if anything happened to both of us until Zeke is 18, your dad becomes the trustee of our trust it would be his responsibility that would be a conversation that you would have with him saying hey as trustee here's what I want you to know if Zeke comes up this is what's on paper. Right. If Zeke comes up with this genius idea give him whatever he wants money wise take it out request a distribution I don't care. Because I believe it any attorney would advise you not to be as that specific in your trust it's typically more like okay I am because you have to spell it out for tax purposes. So like you would say I'm going to gift my child of his inheritance $150,000 to be accessed in a trust account when he is 18 years old. And then you could put something else in there however you wanted to word it but you would never want to get like that specific with it as far as like oh if he wants to go out and I don't know spend five thousand dollars on I have no idea what he would want to spend five thousand dollars on but um for stuff like that it would just they the attorney would tell you just to go to the person who is the trustee and ask for okay for them to get the money.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:11

So you know it it's not if it's when when all of this stuff is established for Zeke because we are going to be very successful. We are very successful we're going to be successful beyond our wildest dreams um who are you appointing as the trustee if you you know who would you want to pick to handle these decisions that we just discussed um that's a good question I don't know I would venture to say Callie it's funny I was thinking the same because she's so like level headed I think your dad or Deb would be very much like I'm gonna give him whatever he wants no really they wouldn't no they would be yeah but it's their grandkids yeah but they're very you gotta understand risk aversive peaceful as well and I would love Callie was one of the first people I thought of to handle our trust she would hear both sides she would make a sound decision. Yeah but I I wouldn't pick Callie because Callie is very she's a warrior yeah so who would you pick I think I honestly it's a dead tie dead tie I probably would appoint both of them who do you think I'm gonna say Connor or Tori yes yes it's Uncle Connor and Uncle Tori because Tori is so disciplined he's been through seasons of life and he's his godfather I think that's really special yeah that your godfather is also handling the trust because Zeke your parents not only trusted me with this your your funding but also they gave me the role to teach you about God. I think that's really special but then also Uncle Connor you want to talk about a guy who's been through a seasonal life too you know what I mean like these are people that are not afraid to take risk but they're also very conservative when they need to be and I respect the hell out of both of them because Tori is an entrepreneur plus a W-2 employee. Yep very amazing plumber and side hustler and then you've got Connor who's been he's had 60 different jobs and realized I'm a terrible employee. Yep I want to work for myself and he is trusting God fully he's he's a capable man and he's he's finding his way yeah and I I just I just respect the hell out of those two guys. Yeah so for me I'm voting Uncle Connor or Uncle Tori.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:25

Yeah wow you nailed that wow I'm I'm just blown away yeah well my first thought was Connor because I feel like he is a lot like you like business wise and he's like a self-starter and I feel like you would want Zeke to have somebody like that because he's so similar to you but then I thought okay well Tori is very similar like yeah he has a W-2 job but like he's always hustling. Union plumber baby union plumber let's go but yeah I mean it's um you know it's crazy to have to think about that kind of stuff but like in this day and age you I mean you really have to nowadays you have to you never know at like we talk about every day's a blessing. Yeah you have to think about what the future is going to look like for for him and I think that it's not about us anymore. No.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:20

Don't get me wrong you and I I feel like we're on such a good wavelength and we're so connected to each other and we have um just amazing I feel like priority towards each other which is it gets lost when you have a baby right but also you know people say your life ends and your baby's life begins I told I can see that side but you actively have to choose your life continues you and your partner's relationship is number one. Yep because you need that foundation for your baby. If your baby does not see mommy and daddy love each other healthy relationship between mom and dad it takes effort it's it's hard yeah but if I'm losing my train of thought here um where was I going with this idea oh shit um it's hard to show that mommy and daddy love each other no no no it's it's hard are you saying to prioritize because you want to take care of Zeke you want to give Zeke the world you want to give him you know hardship you also want to give him love yeah and all this kind of stuff so you're balancing that and figuring out your baby at the same time but the person you married and the person you chose that's your that's your number one just fall back to the wayside them in your life and I hold on I I just want to finish this thought I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:46

Um your life does not end yes his life is so important but if you give up on yourself your dreams your ambitions your partner what kind of what kind of example is that for him well and the person that you choose to marry and be you know your person for life is the only person that you get to choose in your lifetime the only person you get to choose. Everything else is chosen for you I didn't choose Zeke to be our child God did. I didn't choose who my parents were God did. You didn't choose who your parents were God did. So when people talk about how the most important you know relationship is the relationship that you have with your partner it's true because that's the person that you chose. You willingly had other choices in your life and you chose this person. So you owe it to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:46

But God obviously knew you and your partner would get together the history is written.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:51

Correct but from a free will standpoint correct God gives us free will and you choose this person. So you don't stop choosing them just because you have a baby together and like your baby becomes such an important part of your life I mean if that's the case then what do we do together from 8 p.m until we go to sleep it's not that we just sit around and like talk about Zeke and twiddle like we focus on each other and trying to like prioritize our relationship.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:23

Like I don't get me wrong from you know if I'm if I'm blessed and lucky enough to get home between 5 5 30 right like from 5 to 8 30 I want to be dialed into Zeke. Yeah I want to I wanna see and he's not always gonna want me right you know it's great to have dad but if I go grab him from his third nap around 5 30 at night he's super amped to see oh my gosh dad's dad's waking me up from the crib that's so cool I come down the stairs he sees you it's as if I don't even exist right he's so excited to see his best friend who is you and then you know then he's gonna play with dad a little bit and we're at a fun age nine and a half months whatever but I there it's just it's such a special time it's so incredibly special and you owe it to your kid yeah I'm I'm dead tired right you know I was 100 degree heat yeah I'm probably dehydrated even though I was hydrating but like you and I have talked about it you guys are my cocaine. Yeah like it's wild the resurgence you get when you get to see your loving and beautiful wife orphans and and and your and your many children single children whatever it is yeah but your blood is staring at you and they're excited to see you. Now for Zeke it's very short lived he's very excited to see me for about 30 seconds and then he sees his mom and he wants to hang out with mom which is so cool and I'm so jealous of that bond but you know what it's gonna be gone in a couple months and he's gonna be next to me yeah tinkering with mowers trucks whatever and then he's gonna go back in a year to be you know wanting with you. It's gonna be such a fun balancing act and everything. But you have to you have to keep living you can't just use this kid as a crutch.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:26

I think that's the reason why so many people when their kids go to college they don't really feel like they know their partner anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:34

They haven't known each other for 18 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:35

Yeah because all you've done is focus so much on your child and the divorce rate I think goes through the roof when kids go to Yeah. To or even when they're in high school for that matter and they're you know doing so many more independent things hanging out with friends. Yeah when they start driving whatever and you know that's the most important thing you should treasure is like you made a vow with your partner To always get to know them. And your partner can change several different times throughout the lifespan of your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

And every single one of those times that they change, you should be getting to know that new person. And I know this is.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:16

Oh, this isn't the person I married. Bullshit. You married this person through sickness and in health and all that. Things are going to change throughout your life. You married that person's heart.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:31

And you chose that person. Whether it's postpartum depression, whether it's cancer, whether it's the death of a family member that changes you, you are there for that person in that season of life that they're in.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:46

Look at Joe Hagan. He's got a wife of I think 30 some years. And she has um prefrontal uh lobe dementia.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:58

And you know, he had a couple weeks where he's really mad at God, going, What? You threw the I'm gonna I'm losing my wife worse and worse day by day. And he found the humor in it. He finds the funny things that she does with her condition and they make it work.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:19

Good for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:20

I think like that's the hardest thing when we talk about you know being married for one year. Um is that when we think about how much we've gone through in one year, I mean we dealt with um moving, we dealt with pregnant and unexpected pregnancy, we dealt with yeah, death, we dealt with um you know, just so many different things.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:48

We dealt gay family drama.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:50

What?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:50

Gay family drama, just just stupid shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:54

Everything at every single turn. And then most recently we've dealt with like my postpartum depression from having Zeke and something that I'm still working through. And all of that to say it's so important who you marry. Because like I didn't marry a loser. Like when I was going through postpartum depression, I knew that you weren't gonna sit there and leave me. I didn't expect to go through postpartum depression. I thought that I was just gonna be like in the clear. Three months after Zeke was born. I was like, I don't care when people complain about this so much. This is great. And then I could see it creeping in, and I was like, oh no, like this is becoming very real. And there is no other person that I would have wanted to go through any of that with or still go through things like that with, you know, like I know that at the bare minimum of everything else goes wrong in my life, like I have you, and that's such a blessing to have versus like you know, going through hard things with a partner and not really knowing how they'll respond. How they'll respond, how it's gonna, how you know, it'll go moving forward, if it'll change your relationship. And I feel like nothing that has happened to us, at least within the past year, has changed.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:16

Or the last three years.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:17

Yeah, has changed our relationship at all. I feel like if anything, we just get stronger every single challenge that we have to overcome.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:25

So yeah, iron just sharpens iron. And I'm not saying we have a perfect relationship, I'm not saying we're perfect the other day individuals, but like you're constantly learning your partner.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:41

Because there's gonna be, like you said, there's gonna be things that come up and change and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:45

Somebody could lose a job and it could rock their entire world. I mean, you could blow out your knee, God forbid, at work, and then what do we do? You know, like all of these things that are potentials of like what could happen and disasters that could happen in our life.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:00

But we don't hyperfixate on things.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:02

We don't hyperfixate on them. All we do, all we can do is move forward and trust that whatever happens in our lifetime, good or bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:10

There's a reason for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:11

Yeah, is going to eventually work out in our favor. Like the Bible says that good things come to those who wait, right? You go through a waiting season where you're waiting for something from God, and then you get it, and then you realize, okay, this is why all of this stuff had to happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:28

It's the same concept with anything, and it's it's just the polar opposite. You've been shit out of luck, and you can't catch a break, right? Just this and that, and this and that. What does the Bible also say? This too shall pass.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:43

Like, and I understand there's gonna be a worldly perspective where people are saying, well, yeah, like the Bible's convenient, these Bible verses and the sermons, yeah, because they're applicable in multiple different facets of your life. I I don't disagree with you, but that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:04

The whole point is you have comfort to reflect on anything that you're going through.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:11

And talk about an intelligent creator coming up with the people and creating this world and and writing these stories.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:23

And I'm not saying that the whole idea of Christianity, this will be a great podcast topic for next. I am aware that there are other religions that are very similar. There's hundreds of them. But when you actually look at history and what is actually in historical text, when you compare biblical text to historical text, when you you take the faith that you have, you combine all of this, it takes way more faith to believe in evolution or that the Big Bang or whatever, it takes way more faith to believe in that stupid shit than that God created the heavens and the earth.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:15

Well, and also, I mean, what you have to look at with other religions is that the Christianity is the oldest religion that in the world, and every other religion has stemmed from that, right? Typically every other even some of these Asian Yeah, every other religion has like a typical like leader, right? Or something that they're worshiping. Where do you think they got that idea?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:41

I I'm not challenging you. I just feel like some of the the Hindu and Buddhist, and you know, that I believe, because I I did study world religions in college, I could be mistaken. But I'm pretty sure there are some faiths that are older than Christianity, but I could I could be totally mistaken.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:02

We're we're I mean I d I don't see that because the Bible goes through when when everything was started.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:12

I understand that, but also the the the Bible was written long after all of this started.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:24

The New Testament was, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:27

But I'm I'm not I'm not challenging. Yeah, I'm not challenging. I'm just I was just curious.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

Well, I think the crux of what we're trying to say is just that um what were we talking about before that?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:41

Christianity, taking more faith to believe in evolution.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:45

Um, right. The whole purpose of having faith is believing in something that you cannot see and you cannot reason. That's the whole point in believing in Christianity. You can't see God, but you know he's there.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:02

God, you can feel him.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:03

He shows himself through signs and wonders, as the Bible says he does. He shows himself by other people that are in your life, he shows himself to you by little signs throughout the day, letting you know that he's right there. They say that God is never far away, that he's right next to you. He's closer than a brother, he's always there. So you can trust that God is always right next to you. And how crazy is it the amount of faith that you have to have to believe that there is this invisible thing that is next to you at all times.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:42

But don't you dare forget that there's something right next to you, too, that wants to creep into your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:51

I mean Satan is very much alive.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:54

Satan is very much ready for you to trip up. He wants you to he wants you. Absolutely. So don't you dare think that for one second, you know, absolutely, the power of God, he is willing and always able to protect you. But there is someone who's waiting for your demise. There is so when you have seen the devil at work, when you feel the devil at work and you realize it, man, it it sends a chill up your spine how close he is.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:32

And uh Well, he should be. I mean, he's a fallen angel, right? So he knows all of the tactics that God uses to try to get most trusted ally. Exactly. So, like, he knows everything. So that's why he's able to make such an influence on our culture. He's able to make such an influence everywhere in people's lives. He's able to creep in on those thoughts that you have where you're like, no, like this was God, and he's like, No, you did this of your own accord. This wasn't God, he didn't do this. And you know, it's so easy to um to fall into the trap of no, I did all this stuff on my own, like this wasn't God, but like I I just I don't know how people get through life without believing in something greater than themselves.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:28

Um, I want to close it out with so this was months ago. You know, I was talking to Connor late one night, it was like 2 30, 3 o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:38

We're talking about probably when I was pregnant, because that's what you did.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:41

Yep, talking about everything under the sun. And you know, don't get me wrong, there's this draw and this curiosity to paranormal activity. Right, Catherine?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:55

Would you I mean you see it on social media and all this kind of stuff, and it's it's I think that's why scary movies are so popular, is people love to be like the thrill of like, yeah, ooh, what is it?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:05

And you know, Satan obviously thrives on that. And I remember talking to Connor about some type of paranormal activity that I experienced, and this was years and years ago. And you know, Connor and I huge in our faith, and I remember telling him the story, and he's like, Dog, you gotta stop. So you gotta stop. I I can't hear this because Connor's so well level headed that he's like, Yeah, I can't, this is gonna pique my curiosity too much. Like, I'm done. Go to bed, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, okay, alright, cool, cool, cool. You know, and I you know, I got faith in God, like it is what it is. Catherine, do you remember this story? So I hang up with Connor, and I've seen I've seen, I think, a fallen angel.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:08

I think I've seen Oh wait, I think I know what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:10

I think I've seen demons before. Maybe I've seen Satan. I don't know. But I go to close down the house like I always do. I check the doors, all that, turn off the lights. And I'm just about to head upstairs. I'm about to leave the kitchen. I can see the stairs to go upstairs, and I get a little chill in the back of my neck. And I go, huh. And I turn around and I see a light in my backyard, and it's a light that I've never seen before, shouldn't be there, it is what it is. And in my head, you know, I don't know what the face is that I saw outside my window, but I knew I don't want to look again. And you know, in that half a second, whatever it is, quarter of a second, you know, I made the decision that I'm gonna I'm not gonna look again because I know what Satan's trying to do to me. He's trying to mess with me, he's trying to scare me. Yeah, you like talking about that paranormal activity, don't you?

SPEAKER_08 1:41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:35

Let me show you something. Let me show you something cool.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:39

And so I I thought of instantly, it was very weird. Game of Thrones, where the what the many face God, and I think there's a lot of connections to Christianity in Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:54

But I'm sure you had to draw from somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:56

Yeah. But immediately it it said in my head, what do we say to the many face God? Not today. I don't know why that came up. And so I said, I literally I stood there, I said, not today. I headed upstairs, jumped in the shower, said a quick little prayer, said, Hey Lord, don't know why I thought about that stuff with Connor. I did. It is what it is. You know, I'm human, I make mistakes, protect me as I sleep. And went to bed, slept like a baby. Then I just reflected on the evening and how that played out and all that kind of stuff. And how cool it was that God gave me that moment of the many-faced God. Because the devil comes in many shapes and forms. And I think there's gonna be a lot of comparisons to the many-faced God, Game of Thrones, and Satan himself. But it it gave me some insight. You know, this is a this is a home protected by God. This is a home protected by faith, but he's always outside that window. Of course. And I really felt and I really felt like the devil himself was telling me, You may have strong faith today, but I'm right out here. Yeah, I'm waiting for you to leave a door cracked. And I'm not saying physically, yeah, I'm waiting for you to leave a window open. Yeah, because guess what? I'm ready for you. I'm ready for you at all times. I'm ready for you to be weak. I am ready for you to come to the dark side, have a little fun, yeah, have a little less discipline. It's great. Yeah, and what's so funny about the devil too is he's so stupid. You think that I am going to one be scared by you. You you wanna whatever that was, whether that was a demon, whether that was himself, whether that whatever he was trying to scare me with. You think I'm scared of you? Now I I respect, I respect the devil himself to the point where he I know he's powerful. I know he's capable of great things.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:29

But dude, I got the big man upstairs, and he's gonna protect me from whatever you throw at me. He just asks that I give the intellect to think about this, and he asks for the faith.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:45

And then I renounce my sins and that I know I'm a saved human being. You think I'm that stupid, bro?

SPEAKER_05 1:44:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:54

To fear you when I got the Almighty create. Get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:59

Yeah, well, I mean, all you have to do when you see stuff like that is say God's name and he shall flee.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:05

That's what it says in the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:08

And he can't compete with that. I have found I got JC, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:13

I have found in my experience when I have been just really scared and felt like I have felt not necessarily demonic behavior, but just felt like Satan was there. I just say God's name just multiple times, and then almost immediately it flees. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:37

And if you're telling me that that's not faith, I don't know what is.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:42

How can you be so scared, crippled by fear, and you say a name? And all of a sudden you're just you just have peace. That doesn't happen. That is faith. That is the power of God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:05

And I just, man, I just wish some people would open their hardened hearts and brains to something so much bigger.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:16

It's just, you know, the unfortunate part about being in a fallen world and the fact that God gives us free will is that he gives you the free will to choose. He's you know, I remember when I was in elementary school and high school, the running argument, the theological debate that we had all the time was about predestination. Do you know what that is?

SPEAKER_04 1:46:40

I think so, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:43

So predestination is basically like there's no point in you living your life either way because you are already predestined to be to either go to heaven or hell.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:55

Yeah. Predestined by God to be to go to heaven or hell.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:00

I don't believe that at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:01

And so there are what do you believe? I do not believe it.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:04

Okay, all right, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:05

Because then what would be the point of free will? What would be the point of God allowing you to choose whether you want to follow him or whether you don't want to follow him if you were already predestined and your choice was already made for you? There would be no point in giving you free will. So, what would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross and having you have faith if it was already predestined? Like there would be no point.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:29

There's no point.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:30

There was be no point into Jesus saying in the Bible, go out into all the world and preach the gospel if everything was predestined. So anyway, running argument that we would always have in school was about predestination. We argued so much stuff about theology, but that was the main crux of it is that there were, you know, the argument that because the word predestined was mentioned in the Bible, that that somehow correlates to in what context? Believing in predestination. I don't remember exactly what the verse is, but Old Testament or new? I think it was Old Testament. Um, but taking something out of context and saying that this applies to predestination. Um the same thing applies with speaking in tongues, right? There are two schools of thought. Another theological debate that we would always have is is it speaking in tongues? Meaning the typical description of speaking in tongues is that it's your own personal language with God, right? It's the way that you can communicate directly with God. There's no language that's the same because it's your own personal relation or personal language that you have with God. The other argument on the other side is that it is speaking of tongues, just speaking out of your tongue, not speaking in tongues as if you're speaking another language. So a lot of like theological differences, but again, all of it goes back to there would be no point in God giving us free will if all of this stuff was decided for us. And I think that a lot of the thing that people get so hung up on is that they get hung up on all of this theology debate, which don't get me wrong, like it's good to debate that kind of stuff because you really want to get to the intent that God had behind everything that he said in the Bible. But at the same time, the actual meat and potatoes of it is the same. It's that if you accept the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as your savior, then and you repent of all your sins, then you will be saved. You will go to heaven. And people kind of miss the point because that is the basis of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:51

That is what it is, and all of the stuff about theology takes the the faith of a mustard seed or the faith of a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:58

Yes, and all Of this surrounding stuff going like, is there an age of accountability in the Bible? Is there all of this stuff? You know, when was Jesus' actual crucifixion date? Because now they're saying that it could be closer to December and not actually in April when we have typically have Easter. So, like all of this stuff, and you're like, none of that is the actual, like, super important part of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:27

Yeah, because everybody wants to look at the moon and what the moon was doing then and how the ground shook when God said it is or Jesus said it is finished.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:37

And it's like you guys are getting lost in the weeds here. Exactly. You're getting really lost in the weeds.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:41

I remember there was a youth pastor that we had when I was maybe like 13, 14, and his he was like super into like weird, thought-provoking questions. So he came to um he came to church one night and he said, Do you think that there is a rock so immovable that even God can't move it?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:06

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:07

And it's like, no. He wouldn't be God if there was something that he couldn't do.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:14

I didn't say his name is Samson.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:15

I said his name is He is the Almighty, he is the all-powerful. Why would he create something that he couldn't that he couldn't move? Like that's just stupid.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:24

Yeah. So what a dumb question.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:27

I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:28

Did he even go to seminary school?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:30

Uh, I don't remember, but like it's always like these, you know, these things that you get lost in. And then it's like, oh, the debate of like, is the is the King James Version the most accurate version to the original text of what the Bible actually was?

SPEAKER_04 1:51:46

And there's just You get a little fired up on that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:50

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:52

Yeah, I'm an NIV guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:54

I mean, which is fine. That's just a different translation. I mean, I think that the general concept is the same, but when you're talking about the most original context of what the Bible was, the King James is the most original when it was translated from the Greek and the Hebrew that it was originally written in. But um yeah, I just there's so many things that you can like argue on, which it's like, why? Why do you want to argue about that?

SPEAKER_04 1:52:23

Do you believe you know you can shut God out your whole life, right? Do you believe God comes to you in your last moments before you die? Absolutely, I do. I do too.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:36

I believe that God gives you every single chance that you have on this life or on this earth to change your mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:45

And I truly believe that there are he's a God of grace, right? So grace can come in so many forms, but one of the ways that I think he shows grace to all of his children, which we all are, is that he does come to you in those final moments and he says, like you have to make a choice. Choose now. Do you want to be with me or do you want to be against me? Because there's no middle ground, you're either with him or you're not.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:19

And um there's no tiptoeing. No. And I think that for anybody to, you know, I don't know, for anybody to say that like they don't believe, I I just really I can't understand it because God has made himself so real in my life. I know he's made himself real in your life, and to think that somebody would not believe that he is real just is mind-boggling to me. Because it's just like it's just so routine in my daily life where like I know that he exists, I can feel him on a daily basis, I can feel him in Zeke, I can see all that is good that God has created in Zeke every single day.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:06

And, you know, to believe that like because a child is so pure and innocent, yeah. And that's why, you know, it's so precious to God because He's showing this. This is the example.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:23

Yep. This beautiful child, this is what I created to be like, or the world to be like, and you know, we messed it up.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:34

Yeah. And and the devil knows how precious children are to the Lord, and he preys on children.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:42

You know, some of the most disgusting, despicable human beings, pedophiles.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:46

They're the most moldable, you know, kids because they look at life with such joy. They aren't hardened to the stuff that we as adults are hardened to. They believe that anybody is a good person. They bel they really believe in good. And we can learn something from that, but then it's also like, okay, as a parent, it's your responsibility to shield them from thinking that every single person is good because there is evil in the world. And that's the kind of stuff that you have to prepare them for.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:19

Yeah. So I think too, having a kid wakes you up to how much you don't deserve this life. And it's such a loaded statement. But like, why, why am I? God, why do I get the best wife in the world? Why do I get someone I love so much? Why do I deserve this beautiful boy? I don't. I I don't. I'm a s I I make sins every single day. Now, do I try not to do that? Absolutely. But why me?

SPEAKER_00 1:55:59

But that's God's grace.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:01

Yeah, exactly. This grace is given on a daily basis. I do not deserve it.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:10

I mean, you get grace every single day by waking up in the morning.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:15

God has given you another day to live because God doesn't call you home until your job is finished here. Some people's job is finished at the age of 25, 26, 45, you know, 56, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:28

Some at six months old.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:29

Yes. But until your job is finished, you will not be called home. And I think that that's the most important part that people don't necessarily realize is that like if you're still here, you're not done yet. You have so much more to give this life. And until you find your purpose and you find the reason why you're here, like I truly feel like right now, being at home with Zeke, I am living my purpose. I am living what this time in my life is supposed to look like. And to have that, like, just gives me so much joy because like I feel like this is how God intended my life to be right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:13

In this phase.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:13

In this phase of my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:15

He's not saying you're doing this the next 20 years, Catherine. This could be a great six-month stretch.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:20

You might say, Okay, that was great.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:24

I'm ready to get back to work.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:25

Maybe okay, cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:27

Great. We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:29

But right now, you feel so well. What's the word I'm looking for? In tune. You feel so well. You're just receiving what God's telling you to do right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:47

So well. And like, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:49

Well, I think a lot of it has to do with surrendering, surrendering every idea that what I thought my life was going to look like.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:58

Stop fighting it, Catherine.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:59

Yes, surveying it to what God wants my life to be right now. And I think that once I have let go of like, you know, work, once I've let go of like, you know, what I thought my body should look like, once I've let go of like what I where I thought I would be in life. Once I've let go of all of that, I feel like God's just given me like a real sense of peace that I have where I know without a doubt that this is where I'm supposed to be. And it's so cool because I've never felt like that in my life. I've never felt like I know for a fact this is where I'm supposed to be. I know in this moment I am meant to be home with Zeke every day so I can influence his life, so I can point him towards God, so I can let him know how loved he is every single day. Like I know that this is where I'm supposed to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:56

And what's so cool about that too is you feel this, right? Like you're at where you're supposed to be. But at the same time, too, he equips you with non-carelessness.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:08

So you know, okay, uh, yep, I I think I'm getting what God wants me to do at this time of my life. But you're not going, oh, whoop-de-doo, my life's great. God told me to. No, you're still calculating everything at the same time, too.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:24

Where you're protecting yourself, your family, your son, whatever. Yep. It's it's this carefree, but this great discipline at the same time, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:37

I feel like it's if I could describe what this phase in my life is right now, it would be stewardship. And I think that it's my responsibility as Zeke's mother right now to be the steward in his life to show him what a godly example of what a mom should look like and what a healthy relationship between mom and dad should look like. What a, you know, even though he's so little and he this isn't not even nearly on his radar, but like what a what a mothering person should look like. And I feel as if he is getting the best version of me right now because I feel like I'm living my purpose. And there's nothing in the world that's more important to me than like teaching him about being a good person, being um, you know, caring about others, being a godly kid, and you know, always looking for the good in situations.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:46

And I think it reminds me a lot of some of the Instagram reels I feel, I see. And one of them is when your son or daughter hears you're just like your mom or you're just like your dad, that better be the biggest compliment that someone can give you. And I'm gonna show you what it means to be like me or to be like your mom.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:11

It it is an honor to be given the role of parenthood. It's the honor and privilege to be given the name husband or wife. You should take it very seriously.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:26

Because you and I, we both realize that our first marriages were not gonna be the best for us. And like those were, I'm sure you feel like I I know I did. I felt like a failure. I felt like wow. Cool, I'm getting divorced. There's this shame.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:51

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:51

There's this immense shame because you're going, I'm giving up.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:54

You're admitting failure, of course.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:56

Yeah. But you're also young when you get married, too. Your brain's not fully formed. And that's why when we got together, like we just we both laid it out there.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:12

Not Mike Meisner laying it out there, like, hey, head of vasectomy. I got two kids, they're my life. I'm not gonna reverse all. Take it or leave it, Debbie. She stayed, right? But like you and I, we both said this is what's important to us.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:26

This is a non-negotiable. This is a non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:29

Because I'm not gonna waste your time.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:30

No, and you're not gonna waste mine. Cool. Hey, nice meeting you. Best of luck on the next one. Yeah what I mean, and like it's just so like oh my gosh, when you're equally yoked, like the Bible talks about, and even it reminds me my brain, a squirrel brain, but like it's like Matthew McConaughey's acceptance speech for his Oscars, when I think it it goes the wording, when you got God, you got a friend, and that friend is you. And like it's amazing to see where God takes you.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:10

Well, I think it's really about having a firm foundation that you base everything in your life off of. When you aren't equally yoked and one person doesn't have God, like what do you base your daily decisions off of? Are you just trying to be a good person? Because like that's not enough. As much as that's a good thing that you should aspire to be.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:30

Great to strive for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:31

Yeah. It it doesn't get you into heaven being a good person. The Bible says you don't get faith without works is dead. So, you know, you saying, I want to be a good person, okay, but if you don't have faith, you don't have anything. So I think that that is so much of the importance of it is that we have the same mindset, and we have had the same mindset from the beginning of like at the bare minimum, we have the shared faith. And we know where we will go when we die, we know who we go to when we have issues in our life, we know I don't know, we just we have something.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:18

We have a constant compass.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:20

Yes. And I feel like I don't know how people live without it. Like, what do you what do you do?

SPEAKER_04 2:04:28

I mean it's a lot of fake it to you make it right there.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:35

That's crazy. Okay. I kind of want to do something different. You know how like we end podcasts differently sometimes. I want to be more consistent.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:47

So I would like you to pull out your phone, and I can kill some time, but I would like you to end the podcast with either something you came across today or something that's your favorite today, but I'd like you to say your favorite Bible passage for whether it's your favorite of all time, your favorite for this week, your favorite for motherhood, a Bible passage that is special to you.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:13

Well, I have two.

unknown 2:05:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:15

So I'll give two.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:16

Wow, okay. You're just you're ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:18

Because I have them tattooed on me. Um, Matthew 11, 28 has gotten me through so many hard times in my life. I can't even describe how many. Um, but it has come to me, you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:35

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:37

And that is something that has carried me through. I got the tattoo when I was 17 years old, and that is something that has carried me through multiple dark seasons in my life. Um, it has just been a guiding light. And knowing that I have a place to go to when I feel like I can't anymore. That's really, really special.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:01

What's your second verse?

SPEAKER_00 2:06:02

So my second is Romans 116, which is for I am unashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power, um, for it is the power and the glory of everyone who believes. That's awesome. Living an unashamed life.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:19

Not being unashamed of your faith, not being unashamed that you believe in God, not being unashamed that you live your life at a different set of morals and values than most people do. Just not being unashamed. Living unapologetically in your faith is so important.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:39

The um, you know what's so cool too, you know, we talk about there's no coincidences in life, right? And you know, I got a a sign that's in the corner of my eye that you had at your house in Goldner.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:54

Since I bought it.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:55

Since you bought Goldner.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:57

2016.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:59

I have the same t verse tattooed on my body, which was my confirmation verse. And Joshua 9, for have I not commanded you be strong and courageous, do not be terrified.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:13

For the Lord will the Lord your guy will be with you wherever you go. Like that's just it's it's not a coincidence. Faith is just incredible. So there you go. You got C Babies, two verses, you got one from the striped daddy. Bada bing bada boom. What a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:36

What scratched myself with my ring.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:38

Oh boy. I can understand. It's a big ring.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:44

It's a lot of love in that diamond. Um holy smokes, this was a hard hitter. Two hours and seven minutes.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:55

What a special podcast. No, we're just doing it. Full send. Full send. Um, guys, uh if you made it this long, kudos. God bless ya. Anything else, see, baby? Alright. Ciao.