The Loud Mums Club

Mum Comparison, Guilt & Tiny Feral Chaos with Vanessa

• Katie Dunbabin • Season 1 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 43:50

This week on The Loud Mums Club, I’m joined by my first guest — Vanessa — for a brutally honest chat about mum comparison, social media pressure and the guilt that somehow follows us everywhere.

We unpack the highlight reel of motherhood, the ridiculous things we’ve judged ourselves for, and how to stop comparing and actually enjoy the stage we’re in.

Plus: my week from parenting hell, the debut of F*ck Around & Find Out, tiny ferals causing chaos at daycare, rapid-fire questions and the survival tips every mum actually needs.

Grab your coffee, wine or tears — you’re not doing motherhood alone.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Loud Mum's Club episode two where we say the out loud, the good, the bad, and the absolute cooked parts of parenting. And what are we drinking today? Wine, coffee, or tears? Well, I'm here with my guest Vanessa, who's one of my best friends, and we're here with a cup of tea. So welcome to my first guest officially, my best friend Vanessa, who's an absolute champ, but if you were to come on first. Um, introduce yourself. So who are you and what ages are your kids?

SPEAKER_02

Hello, loud mum gang. I'm Vanessa. I've got a one-year-old son and a four-year-old daughter. Perfect. And how did we mate? We met at work. We were lucky enough to meet 10 years ago now.

SPEAKER_01

It's longer than 10 years. Is it really? Well we're 21.

SPEAKER_02

Don't say that in the podcast. I can't believe you'd tell everyone we're 32.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02

No, no. I hope everyone enjoyed listening to that. I hope you're drinking a cup of coffee and listening to this. I know you're.

SPEAKER_01

So we met, yeah, we met through work, yeah ages ago, which is crazy. And actually clicked ever since. And a lot of our close, close inner circle actually is through work. Like we, me, you, and our third party. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But even all of our extended friends in that group are either partners of or were working in that industry.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Which you don't, it's unheard of.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And we've all left. And no one works in the same spot. Yeah. It's actually quite quite beautiful. It is nice.

SPEAKER_02

What are a couple of factors that you I have a primary school teaching degree that I don't use, that I worked really hard for, taught for a bit, and now Did all that free placement for nothing. All that placement, all that teaching for free for nothing. I'm a director of a property management company that I and I'm married to the best man in the world. He's a hero.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna gag again. Alright.

SPEAKER_02

Go on. And also, contrary to what Kelly said before, I am a wine drinker.

SPEAKER_01

It's just you know she's counting calories.

SPEAKER_02

Just my skin and me aren't gonna react to it.

SPEAKER_01

Me and my double gin do not do. Okay. On a scale of thriving to crying in the pantry, how are you going with motherhood?

SPEAKER_02

Motherhood itself, I love.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Thriving. Yeah. But thriving because of the support I get. Because of your ginormous village. Because of my village, because of my husband, because of perhaps my type of personality, I thrive in chaos because I'm organized and I'm a little bit psychotic like that.

SPEAKER_01

But you have really good systems in place.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I have to. Yeah. It's the way I it's the way I function. And I think that's the reason that I thrive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

To a degree. I mean I've fun. Everyone has shitty days where you're touched out and you don't want anyone near you. And if someone comes near me, I need to go lock myself in a cupboard and cry for a bit.

SPEAKER_01

But Or just punch them in the throat and run away.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So that's where I think it's it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's where we differentiate.

SPEAKER_02

We differentiate there. Hands don't go on the children.

SPEAKER_01

No, neither, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like you know when you speak to old people at shops and they say, like, oh, it's the best years of your life. And sometimes it's really hard to think that. Yeah, I certainly don't feel that. Every single day, this is not even an exaggeration. Almost every day Leon and I say to each other, just remember we'll miss it. And I always reflect on that. So every time I'm having a shit moment, I go, I'm gonna miss it. Even the other day I was in the bathroom getting ready for the day. My daughter came in to take a shit in my bathroom, and Lenny was un standard. And my son was undoing all of my makeup and the hair gel and putting it in his hair. So he's a caked gel.

SPEAKER_01

But you because you do Lenny's hair and he has gelled hair and it's not. Yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02

But he was like covering himself in it and talking about just more, more, more. And I'm going, someone shitting, and my daughter said, I'm just here to keep you company, mum. And I thought, but then I took a set before I said, like, mind you, it had been the morning where like I'm trying to get everyone ready, we're going out for the day, and then I just thought, I'll miss the chaos of the bathroom. So I took a breath and I was like, Thanks for keeping me company, darling. And then we got ready.

SPEAKER_01

And Harry does this thing where he goes to the toilet, goes thing shit, goes to the other end of the house, starts screaming out, Mom, Mom, and we're past the wiping bum stage. We're sort of at the stage of like, you now need to figure it out and just wash your hands. And he goes, Mom, mum, mum, and I'll be like, What? And be like, I just want to have a chat. We're at a playground at a birthday party like four weeks ago, and he were like, you know, when you have like those double cubicles, like the metal cubicles in the playground. Oh yeah, yeah, Chris. So we're like at the barbecue era, he's at the toilet, and he's going off, going, Mom, mum. And I'm going, can I hear my child? And my other dad's going, is that yours? And I'm like, Yeah, I think it is. So I'll go over with the toilet. I'm like, You okay? Like we've fallen in, he goes, No, just just keep me, just stay, just, just stay there, just talk to me. I'm like, Harry.

SPEAKER_02

You stink, mate.

SPEAKER_01

I am not stinking.

SPEAKER_02

I know what Harry eats. I'm can't imagine what my kid smells like.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, like, the amount of poo that comes out of this child, it is scary. It's actually hot. It's like a fucking soft serve machine. And I'm like, dude, where but I'm glad you said that because I we can't be the only mums surprised by that.

SPEAKER_02

Sometimes when I'm watching it, I'm like, that was in your belly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and how do you not have a tummy ache? And how you're not telling me you always have a tummy.

SPEAKER_02

And how does that food go in there? How are you eating that much food?

SPEAKER_01

But to be fair, Harry walks around like Santa by the end of the day. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

But still, their tummies must be so small. Like you look at their torsos and you think.

SPEAKER_01

But do you remember when they were born and they were like, oh, their tummy's the size of a walnut? So like one syringe of colostrum was enough to fill them, and you're like, now Harry, actually, to be fair, he actually said the other day, oh mummy, I'm full.

SPEAKER_02

I literally said, froze hell just froze over.

SPEAKER_01

You don't want anything else to eat? Bloody crazy. Have you got a mum fail of the week? Or a mum fail you'd like to talk about?

SPEAKER_02

It sounds shit that I don't.

SPEAKER_01

No, that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_02

Not a mum fail, no.

SPEAKER_01

No, that's totally fine. So mine, which I did not tell you when I got here. I have had our first knit outbreak. I spent three hours today combing knits out of Livy's hair. Do you have knits? Did you bring knits to my face? I treated, I treated myself and Ryan's given me the all clear.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01

Do we check your head for him? Yeah, maybe you should check just in case after this. But I checked. Did you fucking bring knits to my hair? I have um I don't think so. I really don't. I do think so. I did a full treatment and Ryan gave me the all clear. So if I do, you can blame my husband. But I found six knits on Livy's head, but like hundreds of eggs. So the knits aren't the problem. The knits and the knits were ginormous. I've never Oh that makes me itchy. Why would you be disgusting? Sorry, anyway, but that was my mum fell the week. Livy had knits, and I was not okay. I was not calm. I got the real bad heebie jeebies, and I was a nightmare today because I just got this really bad anxiety of I have to now touch that, do that, do the thing if they're in my fucking hair, if they're in my bed. Do split oh yeah, so sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, to wash everything.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. So now I'm itching too.

SPEAKER_02

Did you wash everything in your entire house?

SPEAKER_01

No, just bed sheets.

SPEAKER_02

Like couch cushions.

SPEAKER_01

Towels. Oh, don't. Oh, I've got to do all my blankets too.

SPEAKER_02

You do, and your like the hairbrushes.

SPEAKER_01

Ugh. Anyway, that's tomorrow's problem. But Livvy's learnt the lesson to keep her fucking hair tied up at school because I t I do it nice every day. Yeah. I pick her up and she's taken it all out. And I'm talking like I could have done roomy braids, I've done like buns, space buns, all things. And I keep telling you, you have to leave your hair up. I've said this because the second day we started primary school this year, we got a note about knits. So I was like, right, that's it. I didn't expect it to happen that fast. I'm like, cool, your hair goes up. We've been using like I think it's like K18, K9 spray or whatever. Preventive spray. Yeah, I don't know. So anyway, that was my mum fail of the week. And not so much the knits itself, like that's unblamable. Like that's just one of those things. But just probably the way I responded, I just got really anxious and terrible. That'd be fast. Yeah. And it was almost like overwhelmed of like, oh yuck. Like now I have to do that. Rather a child vomited all over me or shit in my hands and I clapped than have to do that. It was fucking awful. And to the point where I almost started Googling those like companies that do it. I was like, I don't know if I will make sure.

SPEAKER_02

But it's also like something you have to like revisit every like 14 days, like or 10 years.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, 10 days to 10 days. We've got to do another treatment in terms of it.

SPEAKER_02

Because the eggs might have hatched. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

But I think I got like, and then I blow dried her hair and hair strained it. Because I'm like, this heat will kill these fuckers. Like. But you combed them all out? Combed them all out. Pull them all out with my nails. Like um, yeah, anyway, that was my mum feral of the week. Okay, it's time for fuck around and find out. What chaos did your tiny feral unleash this week?

SPEAKER_02

My son is a daredevil in the sense he just wants to jump. Jump.

SPEAKER_01

Jump like on like ground or like jumping and jumping off things. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So his sister can jump off quite a lot of things. She's in her jumping stage where you know I can jump off.

SPEAKER_01

Which is just bigger. She's just standing and just off balance.

SPEAKER_02

That's right, jump off of everything. But my son's head is bigger than his body, I think, and he's so off balance. Yeah, what a head.

SPEAKER_01

Thank God you didn't have to have a natural birth.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, fuck that. That head's massive. Um but yeah, I'm a little bit of a he'll fuck around and find out. Well, yeah, he'll f he'll if he'll only fall once. Within reason, within reason. If I think, okay, he's jumping double his size, he probably can't do that. But if he's gonna jump, he's got to figure out how to land out. That's right, a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Hasn't climbed in a window seals recently.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he did definitely jump off that. No, he didn't, he fell off that one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but he hasn't done it again since he cracked his eyebrow open.

SPEAKER_02

No.

SPEAKER_01

No, so he did learn that lesson then.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that was a that was a nice one to learn. Yeah, so no, you might you got a parent he fails?

SPEAKER_01

Uh nah, more fun. Yeah, my fuck I'm gonna find out was um our Nintendo Switch disappeared. And we were trying to get to the bottom of where it was. And like, oh this sounds brugie. I have a cleaner and I message her and I'm like, Did you see the Nintendo? Because that was the last time I saw it. Not that I was accusing her of stealing it, I just realized no, that's not the intention. It was she could put it somewhere. Not that I thought she ran off at it. Did you take my drawer? Did you take my Nintendo? No, she um and I was like, Oh, did you see it? And she goes, actually, no, I didn't. Um, but check the drawers, like I could have put it into like a drawer near where it was or whatever. And the weird thing is it normally just goes on the charger or it's laying about. So I spoke to the kids. Finally, finally broke down the kids at bedtime one night. I was like, Where like who knows? And she Libby goes, Oh, well, what if I took it to school and someone took it off me? And I was like, What do you mean, what if? Like, did this happen? Did you take it to school? She goes, Yeah. And I'm like, okay. So who took it off you? And she's like, Oh, I don't know. I'm like, okay, so do I need to go talk to the teacher? And she goes, No, no, no, it's fine. I'm like, okay, not really giving me a straight answer here. So I thought I'm just gonna email her teacher, email the teacher. Just like, look, I know this is a big learning curve if you don't know what's going on, but do you know if she took it in? Do you know if she saw it, whatever? And her teacher is so beautiful. Every time I email her, I feel like I'm annoying her. But she was so lovely, and she was just like, she actually picked saw me a pickup and said, I asked Libby about it, um, and she said, No, I didn't bring it to school. And I looked like yes, and I'm like, hang on, who is she lying to here? And then I said to Maddie Where do they learn this? You know, when they learn lying and you get to kids, you're like, I'm like, why do they but also what was the point in the story? Like, what was the point in lying?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then I said to Maddie, her teacher, I said, Oh, so okay, so you don't you haven't seen it? She goes, No, I'm telling you now. If someone bought a Nintendo switch to school, the kids would fucking tell me. Like she's like, they'll they'll I'll be well aware. I'm like, okay. Especially in foundation, they're such little dippy dubbies. Yes. So I left it, and then I'm because I'm like there ready to fight. Like, I'm like, what little Turd burger has stolen my Nintendo, yeah, and also what parent has not realized or Nintendo. Correct. Anyway, that was a whole different thing. So I'm like, okay, cool. So it's not at school. And then Harry pops up and goes, Oh yeah, I took it to daycare. And I'm like, Did he? Well, so then I go to his daycare, and I'm like, hey, Harry said that he took his Nintendo and it's in the storeroom. Does anyone know anything about this? And I'm thinking it's weird that no one's mentioned it. And they're like, Oh, we'll check. And then as I'm asking, Harry goes, Oh no, I'm just kidding, I didn't bring it. So I'm like, okay, so we're back at square one, no idea. And at this point, I'm just like, Well, you guys fucking lost it. Like, I'm done. I'm not buying you another one. Um, and we were at the point of maybe buying a second one because we were like, Oh, they shared it, they have shared it really beautifully. Um, and I was pissed off when I thought Livy had lost it because it was really something more her brother was into. But then I'm like, actually, nah, that's it. Like, you don't get another one, like, I'm not gonna go down that avenue. You lost it. This is this is on you. Fuck around, find out. Take it somewhere you shouldn't have. Anyway, Ryan's mum came over the other night, she was babysitting, and she found it behind the mirror in the living room. Like, we've got like a mirror that leans against the wall, and she just happened to look under there. And like Mike I tell you, when we stripped that house head to toe, looked in every drawer, every nook and cranny. I didn't even think to look behind the mirror. So, some some child has at some point not wanted their sibling to play the game and has hidden it on the way out or gone, oh, I'll save that there for later. Did you consider just keeping it hidden? Little shits. No, we didn't, we did tell them. Never mind. I was like, I just I just keep it hidden for a little bit. I was just like, you little fuckheads. But just to make up the stories. Like, but why? And then I like especially with the teacher, I just felt like an idiot when the teachers then asked Libby and she was like, No, no, no, no, you just write exactly how you do it.

SPEAKER_02

It's just weird. When they start lying, like you can be watching the two kids play, yeah, and someone hit the other one, and you did you hit them? No, I didn't. I was like, why? I just witnessed that. Where do you learn that lying from? Is it self-preservation?

SPEAKER_01

Or is this something like have they witnessed it inadvertently? That do I like? No, it's gonna be preservation. I don't know, but like Libby and Harry have both now started playing us off against each other. So like Harry will come in and be like, what's for dinner? and I'll tell him, and he'll go back to Ryan and say, Can we get mackas for dinner? And Ryan will say, Go ask your mum, and then he'll come back to me and go, Oh, dad said we can have macas for dinner. And I'm like, Oh, that's weird, because I just told you what we were having for dinner. So, like, does dad just not want to have what I'm having? Like, I don't so I would yell out and be like, Ryan, did you just say we could have macros for dinner? He's like, No, absolutely not. And I'll look at Harry and I'm like, that's not what Daddy said, you little turd. And mum and dad talk to each other, yeah. And this is a good thing, like, we are so good at like it's us against kids, so we always check in on that sort of stuff. And if a parent has said no to something or yes to something, we go, okay, well, daddy said no, or daddy said we're doing that, or that's work, correct? Because that's been a yeah, a big thing for us, just how we successfully parent, I suppose. Same. It's time for the village verdict. So this is where I'm gonna put a subject out each episode and beforehand and we discuss it. And this week's village verdict was comparing your parenting to other parents online. Like we are now in a society where our parents didn't they just compared to like other school mums and daycare mums and their mother's group or people down the road that they weren't exposed to thousands and thousands of people online where you have this culture of people posting their life, and you are comparing every aspect. So curious to know what your thoughts are. Have you ever seen another mum online and then spiraled into I'm failing? And what was that trigger?

SPEAKER_02

I just think it's different though, because there's all these, like you said, so many days in the life of, and yeah, algorithm changes. Yeah, yeah, but algorithm changes depending on obviously what you're saving and what you're liking, and I'll get a mixture of the crunchy no tox mum, and then I've got you know the sensory play making sure my children are doing this, and then I've got the primary school teacher and me coming in to making sure I need to be hitting these milestones, and we've never had more things to compare ourselves, more people online to compare ourselves to, and I think for motherhood it's really scary because I can't be the only mum here that at night you lay and that you recap the day, right? And you're recapping what you fed them that day, what you did with them that day, what you've got to do tomorrow. My daughter went through a stage where she was going through that beige eating stage, and how am I gonna get more nutrients into her? And then you jump online, you're seeing mums talking about, well, my kids have eaten this much today, and here's how I'm hiding all these veggies in food, and here's what I'm making today, and here's the activities I'm setting up. So it's not so much that I'm spiralling, it's more I'm trying to absorb all this information, and you try to do this thing when you first have kids where you're like, I'll take the advice I want and I'll chuck away the stuff that I don't want, right? And you think that's this really great thing, but no, you absorb it all because the way that people talk online is not conversational, it's I'm right, here's what you should be doing. Don't you know that ham has carcinogenics in it?

SPEAKER_01

It's also I feel like there's a like you know, I'm all about women supporting women, and it's very toxic in that environment. If you dare to have like a different opinion in regards to how to feed your child or how to get vegetables into a child, some kids just won't do it, and other mums are then like, oh, but you can just do this, or just do this. This works, like why don't you try this? And it's like, hang on a second, I'm just trying to survive, I'm just trying to keep my child alive, and especially the beige food stage is really tricky.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, many but I'm guilty of it too. I put online the best of my kids. Yeah, it's not even a question, I'm not putting online, like I put online when I'm doing a sensory play with them, and yeah, and it's almost a do you think that I'm doing it a little bit of a tick of approval?

SPEAKER_01

Of course it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But that's we were right, we were we're the Facebook generation, the MySpace generation. We put anything up and you watch the likes come in and it's affirmation, and it's no different for parenting, and it's no different for the age of era we're in.

SPEAKER_01

It's almost a conscious, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02

It's just like how Yeah, we do it now and we just wait to see people saying, How great are you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my goodness, look, you're baking with the kids, how good are you? Like it's almost that pat on the head that the millennial in us wants or the mum in us wants that we don't need. I don't think I'm lacking any part.

SPEAKER_01

To be fair, just gonna make it really clear. Mum, I know you're listening. Not a baker, never baked. Did not bake with me as a child. I was definitely like, how torturous. You but I can't bake. I'm a terrible baker. I'm a terrible cook in general. I don't like the mess. So it's like, yes, come bake. You can touch an egg. Yeah, okay, yeah. You're like, hold the flour.

SPEAKER_02

I did make bread tonight with my son, and he does want to knead the bread, but he'd actually just come in from outside. Yeah, and you're like, oh no, he had crunchy dirt hands. Hope you enjoyed that bread. Probably has crunchy dirt hands in it.

SPEAKER_01

Did you not wash his hands?

SPEAKER_02

Like a little bit, but it's all over it. Like with wipes. I'm probably gonna have worms tomorrow. No, just with wet water. It's the extra crunch. Crunchy mom. It's good. You bring knits, I bring worms.

SPEAKER_01

You know what? You know what? On that we are fair, and now we're even. You can't ever talk to me about that again now. You just gave me dirty bread. It's not dirty bread, it's cooked. It's 200 degrees for half an hour. I fucking cooked for 200 degrees for half an hour when I had the fucking knit stuff in my hair. So we're totally even. What's something that you have compared, but you now look back and it's ridiculous? Like, why was it why were you even focusing on that?

SPEAKER_02

Probably more to do with myself than the kids or motherhood.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Which would be that bounce back body culture. Yeah. And I think that comes down to me. I don't like postpartum. That's I'd have more kids if I didn't have to go through the postpartum stage. Love pregnancy, don't like postpartum.

SPEAKER_01

But I think a side note here is that you are big into your health and wellness and fitness. You really like to move your body, you like to be fit and strong and healthy. So to be in a body that doesn't feel like your own, I remember you really struggled with that.

SPEAKER_02

But not being able to move either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like having C's variants, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Caesars, two C sections, and not being able to properly move and recover.

SPEAKER_01

And being told you are not allowed.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and you see this bounce back, and I know that it's even now it's much more talked about. Like this is not a bounce back. This is an body. But you take those pot those posts and we're going, oh, that's so great that they're being online about this. But they're side by side with all the ones that have had babies eight weeks ago and their abs are back.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And that's a some of a genetic thing. Some of it, I don't even blame them. They're just fit, healthy people. Yeah. But I did the whole thing, I trained up to 39 weeks. Yeah. I was in the gym lifting heavy. Yeah. And it wasn't for me. Afterwards, I did retain the weight and retained it for a bit. And then had to work my ass off 12 months, 18 months to get back to where, not where I was, but back to what felt like me again.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I think that the comparison and something I'd wish I'd it's not even I wish because I know logically that that's not logical thinking I had being like I trained for 39 weeks, so I deserve to just bounce back and also why haven't I? Right. And I'm eating all the right foods and I'm doing all the right things and And I'm breastfeeding, so I should be losing weight and all the things. But you do all the things at the same time and then you're comparing yourself.

SPEAKER_01

But that's unrealistic. And and when you are looking, I don't follow any of them. I can't follow the Kardashians, I don't follow any of them because I cannot look at these women who I don't know how they do it. They must spend six hours a day in the gym with kids and nannies and I don't know. Because that's me not realistic. I don't know. Anyway, I get you, I feel it. Um do you think the comparison creates mum guilt, or do you think that the mum guilt makes us compare more?

SPEAKER_02

Nah, it's not one or the other, it has to be the same.

SPEAKER_01

You think it's the same thing? I think it's the or it's just all a contribution.

SPEAKER_02

It is because what I was saying before about you have this checklist in your head of what you've done, you then jump online and you go, Oh, this mum has had a full day of activities and she's cooked all this home meals, and she and I could have done the same things that day, but it's nothing quite like that, where you go, Oh, I didn't do that very well. I was a bit of a failure. I start like I I've gotten up out of bed before. I've told you this before, you've thrown shade at me before for doing this, is that I set up an activity the night before for the kids in the morning when we play.

SPEAKER_01

I would never throw shade at that. I don't know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, what are you talking about? And at one time that started because I saw someone set up something for their kid, and it was I was laying in bed and I was like, I better set that up. Like I got up out of bed to do it. How ridiculous. So, and the guilt that sits there, if you don't do it, like if I like I can be sitting and reading my book and the kids are playing beautifully, and something goes in my head goes, Why aren't you with them right now? Like, and it's those like constant. You know, comparisons to people online. Yeah. You make them lunch and you go, There's nothing really green on that plate.

SPEAKER_01

Like a ham sandwich and a pack of chibies.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, it's all those, and I think that we've never been in a more what I say, comparison's a killer of joy. And we are in a society now where our comparison circles, not just you.

SPEAKER_01

But it's not just our mum. It's not just it's not just as a mum, it's fashion. That's everything. It's makeup, it's skincare, it's hair, it's homes. Oh god, it's a design. English as a mum, who your partner is, how they support you, talking about like family dynamics, how other people's families are because everyone posts everything online. Yeah, so you have you're getting bombarded in every possible category. So every single thing, like, how are we not being really hyper-focused on every aspect of our life, thinking, well, this isn't perfect? So feeling insignificant, yeah. But how do you think we can stop comparing this and actually enjoy the stages that we're in? I think it's about turning screens off a bit and trying to get away from it. And I'm a I'm a fucking shit show for sitting and scrolling and like my kids trying to get my attention sometimes, and I'm like, guys, I just need a minute. And I definitely know my kids' behaviour is so much better when I don't have my phone on me. Yeah, because they're getting me they're getting me holy.

SPEAKER_02

That's a big thing. It's it's something that all of us find hard to practice, is putting the phone down. I read or I put my phone away, or I try and hide it somewhere because it's such a temptation thing to pick it up.

SPEAKER_01

If it's just even if it's just sat next to you down on the couch.

SPEAKER_02

There's actually also a podcast, not a podcaster, an influencer right now, Tilly. She was on, I think she was on Big Brother. I don't really know, I'll find her name. But she is doing, she's had a baby 11 weeks over Caesar, and she's been doing every week like showing what her C-section area looks like.

SPEAKER_01

That's that's a very vulnerable. So raw.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and well, quite literally, because that's right, but it's been for no other purpose other than being like this is normal. And she prior to this was like fake boobs, like very toned. So she's now showing how hard she's finding that bounce back culture, yeah, and how hard she's finding what she expected because of what she looked at for. Well, you'd find that very relatable, right? And the shelf, anyone who's had a C-section out there knows the shelf is so hard.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's the worst part to lose belly fat too. Like it's just impossible.

SPEAKER_02

And you can't read it.

SPEAKER_01

It's just the tightness of a scar.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. So then I also find that it's another talk about comparison, when I see other C-section mums that don't have it, that just have like this tight, flat tummy with a line, and I'm like, how'd you get that? And I know that's it, it's nothing I don't I don't know. It's nothing that you've ever done.

SPEAKER_01

It's to do with the surgeon, it's to do with recovery, how your body I know that. Yeah, because like I'm a keyloider, so all my scars key loid. So that's hard too. Because when you look at I'm never gonna have this beautiful, pretty scar.

SPEAKER_02

No, but then comparison's a big thing anyway, because I think I said, even in our friend groups, I've had beautiful feedback like you. I have another girlfriend that always says, Oh, you know, you guys are doing great, and you look like you're so happy and everything. So in those moments when I feel like I'm spiralling out of control, I just go, stop it. Like you are Are you good at that?

SPEAKER_01

Like pulling yourself back in and I think I'm mentally sound. Re-earthing yourself.

SPEAKER_02

I'm mentally sound when it comes to that stuff. Yeah. Not so mentally sound when it comes to probably physical, my image, like my body image and stuff. I think that stems from our fact that we're just we're millennials brought up in Paris Hilton culture.

SPEAKER_01

And parents that were born diets and um they call them almond watches and that's right, every diet under the sun, still talk about it in our skip meals.

SPEAKER_02

And so I think that's really tricky when we come from that culture that I'm so conscious I never talk badly about my body, even though I'm feeling that in front of the kids, ever. And if I ever did say something Leon so quick to pull me up on in a good way, then And this is the thing, you you want to show your daughter what a man should treat you like, and she knows.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's the best.

SPEAKER_02

There's a song that's like, I want a man that loves me like my father loves my mother, and I was like, that's it. Grace, find a man that's as good as your dad.

SPEAKER_01

What's one parenting hill you'll die on?

SPEAKER_02

I am a major screen moderator. I now have a tool that is all attention taking. If I actually need 20 minutes, whatever the timer is I set, I get that because it's so you know what? It's a gift and it's a privilege, and the kids are lucky to have it. I see such a difference on the days when they've had more. Screen time for me is not so much a regulation thing as it is a parenting tool for me. Yep. And then it's a treat, is that right? Yeah. And it's something that they like, they enjoy. I can't just But it's not a right, it's a privilege. And one of my girlfriends actually told me the best thing ever. Oh the best hack she ever did. Who? Can I ask? Chelsea said to me, We do quiet time before TV. So she says, You have to spend, do 10 minutes quiet time in your room, read your books, then you can have 20 minutes of quiet.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, I'm implementing that.

SPEAKER_02

So she started doing this. She goes, You know what you get into that, Vanessa? Double, double quiet time because they're quiet watching TV, and she said there's been so many times of her son.

SPEAKER_01

Kids don't know how many minutes are 10 minutes. You can have quiet time for 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02

She said sometimes it works well, like so. Sometimes it'll be like you'll get she goes, I can just keep them going. And they'll just get distracted in their rooms doing that. Well eventually they'll come out but they've spent 40 minutes. Yeah. Sometimes it's woeful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But it was the best little parenting hack I'd heard, and I've actually told a few people about it, and everyone's like, Yep. Because for one thing as well, it also means it is the reward for you doing the right thing. Yeah. But it does give them a second to What's something people don't talk enough about in motherhood? I don't think enough people talk about not wanting to be defined by motherhood. It's like that's not your whole personality. No, when people when I introduce myself to people, hi Venice, I'm a mum. It's very low on my list of things I say.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I often will have people say, Oh, you you've got kids, because I'll must mention it.

SPEAKER_01

I think I don't define myself that way, but I don't know how to define myself. I'm in that chapter of I don't really know who I am, which is partly why I've like made this podcast. Like I want to talk to other people about what how like their life is and how they define themselves, because I don't really know who I am. Like I've like been with my husband since I was 18. I've had my whole career is basically being in real estate, and then I've had kids, and now I'm trying to find my way and get back into the work, and now I've got a child in school figuring out fucking school hours and like kinda hours. It's just like it's great that you're like, it's not my de definitive it's a huge part of me. But it's great that you can say, hi, I'm Vanessa and put something else in front. I just don't have the thing. Like for me, it's but it's not even talk about yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Like it's more so I don't go like hi I'm Vanessa, here's everything about me. It's more I just prefer to start a conversation and get it going, and then it'll be like the kids will come into it.

SPEAKER_01

So to be fair, I think that being a mum is something that I'm so familiar with that I will start a conversation on being a mum. Yeah, great. I will say, I well, I'll talk to anyone at a cafe, I'll be like, oh, hello cutie, like I'll start talking to them, or how old, or seeing someone's pregnant, and that will be my go-to in. Yeah. If I saw someone reading a book but they had a child with them, I would probably go for the child conversation over the book conversation, even though I'm a massive reader. What's something you've judged yourself for that your kids literally could not care less about?

SPEAKER_02

Toy rotation. I fucking do toy rotation like it's a schedule. I don't give a shit. Yep. As in they care when new toys are there, but they could not give two rats, and I judge myself like it could have been, oh my gosh, it's been like two months, and the same toys are out. Yeah. Ooh, new toys! Or you I don't even see like an immediate, oh my gosh, their independent play is really increased by 50%.

SPEAKER_01

I don't do the rotation, but what I have started to do is like gifts I put away. Oh yeah, yeah. Trying to drip feed the gifts. And this year we went home for Christmas with COVID. So they opened and played with every single thing, and I had no chance to put any of it away.

SPEAKER_02

Because otherwise, true, they remember.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but every other year would be true. What would you say to a mum listening who feels like everyone else is doing motherhood better than her? See that's half a few. Because you're in a very good place as a mum right now. There are some mums out there who just feel like they are drowning and failing. What would you say to those mums?

SPEAKER_02

It's easy for me to come at this from a place of I'll use the word privilege because I do, you've mentioned at the start, my village. I come from a big family. Leon's a big family.

SPEAKER_01

We have aunties, uncles, are heavily involved.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. My parents are incredibly involved.

SPEAKER_01

Leon's parents are babysitters at a drop of a hat, you can go for a date night, you can have a night off. That's right. Might someone come over for dinner and it's just nice.

SPEAKER_02

But I wonder as well if people that don't have villagers do have more of a village than they think, but they're just too scared to ask. We talk about at the beach when you have people from other cultures that come and they all have dinner together in these big, big huge groups, right? Yes. Right? We in a western society are so insular with our families. Mums kids. Yeah. Every other culture, the village is big.

SPEAKER_01

But they have like the in-laws and the parents always together. Like and it's not just for a birthday, not just for a special occasion. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02

So like it's so they're so big and welcoming, and it's such a big village. They're like their own villages. We're so secular, and you must, and it's almost like in the Western society, we must do it all. I need to be succeeding as a mum, I need to be succeeding in life, I need to be keeping fit, I need to be feeding them well. By myself. But not even by yourself, like even as a family. Like I need to be doing this, I need to look a certain way, my house needs to look like this. Yeah. And it's like it's just not achievable. So it'd be like, take a step, take a second, and just focus on one thing.

SPEAKER_01

So my psychologist actually said to me, Are your kids healthy? Yes. Are they well fed? Yes. Are they under a roof? Like are they warm at night? Yes. She goes, Then what's the problem? You have happy, healthy kids with no hungry bellies, even though they say they're always hungry, but they're not. They act like I don't fear them, but they bloody well are fed. And they sleep warm at night. And you just then go, yeah, you're right. Like there's situations out there where there's violence, there's domestic attack and stuff, and you just I understand also it's very hard for women in those positions, don't get me wrong. But perspective is hard though. It it's hard to take a step back and to realise when you're in the trenches and you feel like you're in the pits and you might not have the support, that it does feel all embodied and all ending, and like this is so hard. But you do also need to reflect and realise you've raised healthy babies, you have a roof over your head, the kids are warm at night, and you're you gotta count your blessings. And like yet again, coming from a place of privilege, hindsight, and and also you could have asked me this two years ago where I was in such a bad place mental health-wise, where I finally understood when you hear stories of mums just walking out the door and never coming back because I was just not in a good place at all. And so, yeah, coming from a place of privilege of like feeling good about myself and feeling good about my situation, it is yeah, trying to but you know what's funny? I'm sure you find the same thing. You have a really hard day with the kids, like we go out and have a really nice day, and then they come home and they go, now it's boring. Well, that was a shit day. No, they don't say that, but they say that was boring, and then you're angry because you're like, I've just wasted this money, or we've just had this day out, and you think that that's boring, and then they go to sleep, and I'm like, gosh, you are so cute when you're sleeping. Oh, you look at the photos. I love you, like I love you like beyond. I can almost get myself into tears of just thinking of like how delicious and how beautiful my little humans are. Create a village. Like there'll be other mums in your circle that probably feel the exact same way. Like how other mums. Swap a date night. Yep. Swap, yeah. I I'm I'm with you. What's your survival tip for mums?

SPEAKER_02

Find something outside of motherhood.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Which again is easy for me to say. But also, I say easy for me to say because I have support, but I get up at 5am. To me, movement is what makes me feel like a human. You've prioritised yourself by doing 5am. In the days that I don't exercise, ask my children, ask my husband, I am not as nice or mentally sound. Yep. It's to me, it must be an endorphin thing, I don't know what it is, but I do it in the morning. I get up at 5, I go do it before the kids are up, I get home. My kids early rises, they're up at like 10 to 6 or 6 o'clock. And that's when our day starts. And I am by then I'm buzzing because I've worked out. We play together all morning, and that's why I spend every morning. Drinking the coffee and having with the kids. And to me, that's how I love spending my day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And it's how starting to start my day, sorry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Just me to start my day. Because even if the means the whole day we're running around doing errands, and I'm we're cooking and we're doing this, we've got kinder days and whatever, I know we've had that time in the morning. Yeah. I think the kids value it.

SPEAKER_01

So when I started doing this thing in the mornings where I was sick and tired of like the screaming at the kids to get them dressed and to get shoes on, and I make them do everything themselves, so I won't help. Like they have to get themselves dressed, they have to find their own shoes, get the shoes on, get their socks on. They're at that age, they're four and five. They're perfectly capable.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So no matter how much Harry's moaning and groaning, Oh, I need help putting my pants on. I'm like, you're capable. Where does the label go? On your bum, you're fine. And so I started in the thing, no more TV. Once I get up, it TV goes off. You have to be fully dressed, including socks and shoes, and you have to have breakfast. And whilst I have they have breakfast, I have I told you about this? No. Me becoming a chef? No. So I pretend that I'm a chef. I don't know how this started, right? And it's just the most ridiculous thing. So I then turn into a different person. This is part of my, you know, the voices in my head, multiple finality. So I get in there and I go, um, oh my god, this is so embarrassing. Um, I do this stupid voice from Europe, which I don't see if you can identify where it's from because I just think it's ridiculous. But I go, I go, good morning, my stinky little piggies. What are we having for breakfast? Okay. And then I'll make them like wheat picks or whatever. And Harry will go, oh, this is burnt. Like he'll joke. And I'll be like, it is not burnt. I do not burn things in this restaurant. I don't know. I don't know where what the accent is. For me, it's like my witch's voice from rolled up. So much witches. Yeah. And like they just think it's hilarious to remove your mask.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And they just sit there giggling the whole time and they just think it's just Russian. And it's, I don't know. It changes every day. I don't think it's that consistent. But they just love this one-on-one time. And it means we go so calmly from that we've eaten breakfast, and whilst they're messing around and we're talking, I'm making their lunch boxes. Then we go, okay, cool, go put your lunch boxes in your bag. So I'll go, okay, your lunches are ready, go put them in your bag and let's pack your bags. Let's go to school. And they'll go, Oh, are you gonna take us to school today, chef? And I'm like, no, no, no, your mummy take you to school. I'm not your taxi driver. So and then like Harry like riff like keeps saying, Mummy, you're the chef, and I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like the chefs, like we have a chef, like I'm mummy. Don't you know how to chef? Yeah. And then I'll like slip out of character and he'll be like, see, I told you you were mummy.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, you really got me there, Harry.

SPEAKER_01

But it's been this huge thing. I think we started it like on Mother's Day, um, and just the last couple of weeks, and it's been my like such a smooth thing in the morning because we get this one-on-one time. Yeah, otherwise, before it was like me getting out 15 minutes before we need to leave the house and just like kind of. Yeah, anyway, that's when my mum rage comes. Um last thing is finish this sentence. Motherhood is brilliant. Oh, that's beautiful. I want to do some rapid fire questions with you. Ready. Ready? Wiggles or pepper pig? Neither. Oh, wiggles. Wiggles? Love wiggles. But you've you hit knee-jeck was neither.

SPEAKER_02

Neither. Neither for no, I mean knee jerk shouldn't have been neither. We love wiggles. I've been to been to two wiggles concerts. Love the wiggles.

SPEAKER_01

What's your favourite hidden snack? You're pretty good. Yeah, you're good at having like a good snacky snack. Oh, pin and MMs are my.

SPEAKER_02

I've none in the house, I can't buy them because I can't stop eating them. That's so mummy. I have no self-control. Like, there's been instances with chocolate in the house when it I have to put it in the bin and cover it in detergent or flas spray.

SPEAKER_01

You'll take it out of the bin.

SPEAKER_02

I'll take it out of the bin.

SPEAKER_01

Vanessa!

SPEAKER_02

That's why I can't have it. That is disgusting. That's why I can't have it.

SPEAKER_01

We listen and we don't judge. Thank you, because you're judging right now. I'm not judging. No. Uh what's your coffee order?

SPEAKER_02

Cappuccino with one spoonful of honey.

SPEAKER_01

Can I can I talk about your little life hack at the local cafe? But I'll be poor with that ice cream.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so the local cafe's changed it now, so I'm so sorry you can't do it. But there was a cafe where you order, like, you know, the QR codes. Yep. Yeah, you order a cappuccino, like a hot cappuccino, and like you know that all the add-ons, like add this double, there was no ice cream minus a dollar. So I used to click that, so then I'd get my coffee with a dollar off because of course I don't want the ice cream in my cappuccino. And we had this hackley and I were able to do that for like probably three years. And they didn't pick up on it. They would have had what's worse is their ticket would have come through being like cappuccino. When they think no ice cream.

SPEAKER_01

And you're a regular, like they would have noticed that.

SPEAKER_02

Dunno.

SPEAKER_01

Oh well. Bristols don't care, apparently. So funny. I just think that's a good little tidbit. Um, have you ever hidden from the kids? Where did you hide?

SPEAKER_02

I hid this morning from them.

SPEAKER_01

Why? What was going on?

SPEAKER_02

It's just when I get touched out. Like they can be, it's we notice it when they're coming down with something, which you know kids always are.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But when they're sick, they're so clingy. Yeah. And when there's two of them that are clingy, Leon sat in the playroom with them and closed the door and just locked me. I could hear them from all I never been from, I could hear them howling for me.

SPEAKER_01

Oh really?

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Mommy! But then Leon picked up on that and was like, nope.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, he just sat in here with them while they howled.

SPEAKER_01

Oh.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it was awful for Leon.

SPEAKER_01

I remember talking to Leon about that, and he used to say it was heartbroken.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah, it used to hurt his heart. So it's just kids can be wild. So no matter how good your village can be, kids can still be like on you. And yeah, it could still unintentionally just be assholes. And hurtful. Hurtful. They'll be so hurtful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And they don't, and that doesn't matter. You can be the best effing mum in the world.

SPEAKER_01

Which we all are today. And she starts playing drums on my tummy. And I'm sitting there being like the most positive, like, um Is it mummy's body beauty? Yeah, trying to do all the things. I'm like, Mummy grew two babies in that belly, like I'm so proud of that belly, rah. And then I get out of the shower and like I felt I actually felt proud of myself and better in myself. I'm like, I fucking know. It's like I've had two babies, like, who cares? This is my tummy. And then I get out and she goes, You've got a big bum mummy. And I was just like, crashed back down to earth. Thank you, darling. Thank you for that. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. What's your favourite swear word? Flip. No, swear word.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I say flip. So I don't say fat in front of the kids. No.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no. I'm not talking about around the kids. Oh. What is your favourite swear word? Flip. Fuck off. Sorry, I meant like Yeah, right. So you're saying flipping hell around the kids. I know you wouldn't say hell.

SPEAKER_02

Don't say how or say flip. You just say flip. Nah, Lenny says what the heck now. Oh my god, that's so funny. I say what then he goes, heck. It's really good. I'll show you. Um favourite swear word.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like you say shit a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I shit's not to me is not a swear word. My kids say shit.

SPEAKER_01

No, they don't. Yeah. That's hilarious. But I I'm not an issue with kids.

SPEAKER_02

Shit to me is not a swear word, never has been. Cow shit, dog shit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Like you're raised on a farm. You're smarter by shit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. That's actually right. So it's just shit. I'm trying to think, there's not one that I've like probably probably I've I've probably said fuck a few times inside this podcast. So probably that because I was raised as that being just part of our normal vernacular. Like we we we never said the C word, don't like that at all. So if you take my least favourite C word is a C word, I don't even like saying it. I think it's dirty.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Which was funny because we were in a swearing household, but the C word was never allowed to be used.

SPEAKER_01

That was like so it was a weird one because dad I think my dad, we don't say that word, but my dad taught me early on see you next Tuesday. Oh yeah, that one we knew the knock. So if I'm like angry or something, I'm like, but they were being serious, see you next Tuesday. You still say that now. Yeah, all the time. I won't call someone that word. Or a C bomb. I don't like no, I don't say C bomb. I definitely say they were being a C next Tuesday. Like 100%. I I just but it's not one of my go-tos. I'd rather just say they're being a fuckhead. That works too much. But it depends. I also don't want my kids to learn C next Tuesday. Like wanker. Wanker's a good one. Okay, favourite word?

SPEAKER_02

Wanker.

SPEAKER_01

Wanker. Boss wanker.

SPEAKER_02

A wanker in general is because it can be so powerful. Guys are wanker. I say that a lot. You do say that a lot. Absolute wanker. Because I feel like it's not as offensive when you're talking to somebody, but like it can be like, you know, probably say more like what a wank.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What a wank.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Good one. Alright, time for um lab mum of the week. I want to do a shout out to a mum. Do you have someone you'd like to shout out to, a mum that you think's incredible, or something that you've witnessed from a mum that you just go, you are amazing?

SPEAKER_02

I think I talked about it. The quiet time before TV time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, shout out.

SPEAKER_02

Shout out Chelsea. Shout out to Chelsea for giving us the mum hack that hopefully a lot of mums on this podcast can enjoy.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. Okay, so to wrap things up, I just wanted to say to everyone listening, you're doing better than you think. And if you yell today, that's okay, because so did I. Stay loud, mums. See you next week.