Surviving Twins Without a User Manual

This week on The Loud Mums Club, I'm joined by one of my oldest friends, Ellie—a twin mum who proves that surviving two toddlers at once deserves some sort of medal.

We chat about her wild twin pregnancy, an unexpected early arrival at 33 weeks, an emergency birth that definitely didn't go to plan, and the whirlwind that followed. Then, because parenting never slows down, we dive into toddler dinner battles, routines (or lack of them), and the everyday chaos of raising tiny humans.

It's honest, funny, emotional, and full of the kind of conversations that make you realise we're all just winging it.

Grab a wine (or a coffee), and come join the chaos.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Welcome to the Lum Mum's Club, where we say the quiet part out loud, the good, the bad, and the absolutely cool parts of parenting. What are we drinking today? Wine, coffee, or tears? Well, I'm here with my girlfriend Ellie and we're having a glass of rose. But introduce yourself. Who are you? And what ages are your kitties?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

So I'm Ellie, and my kids are two and a half year old twins.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Yeah, we've just had a chat about what interesting journey with that. And how did we meet? How have we known each other?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

I don't know. We met through our parents.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Like 15 to 20 years. I'm trying to think. I how old were you when like you would have been 16? You were the oldest out of all the kids.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Was it Buxton Camp we met? Was that the first property? No, I'd met you before that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Did we have barbecues and stuff? No, I reckon I would have been 13, 14, and you're what two years older than me. How old are you now?

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Four.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Yeah, I'm about 10-32. So yeah. So what wow. That's what nearly 18 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

That is a long time. That's nuts. It's crazy seeing each other through different chapters. Yeah. Like graduating. We got married the same year. Yeah. Literally both got married just before lockdowns here. Like so lucky. And I was pregnant when I picked up my parents from your wedding. Yeah, you're right. And it was like herding You just found out. Oh mate, and I was trying not to vomit in the bushes at your wedding while I'm trying to get everyone drunk in the car. And I'd get like two adults in, and then one would walk out, and then I'd get two more in, and then one would walk off. And I was like, I'm gonna lose it. Yeah, you're picking up drunk 50 odd-year-old is not good. It was worse than 15-year-olds I tell you. Um, what are five facts about you? Doesn't have to be five, but just some fun facts.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Fun facts. Twin mum. Twin mum, yeah, that's definitely a big fun fact. Um I'm an expat like you.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yep, we've been here in the UK. Been here like 22 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

How old were you when you moved here?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Oh, I just turned 13.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, I just I was just about turned 12. There you go. Yeah, so very similar.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Do you miss it?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Or do you miss it?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

I don't miss it. I remember it enough. I don't miss the I miss the chocolate. Yeah, that's right. Over there's ten times better, but it doesn't have as much oil in it.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

No.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

But otherwise, yeah, I miss my family too. Like don't miss the weather, don't miss the beaches, don't miss the lifestyle. No, I prefer it, yeah. Like we just celebrated our 20 years, that's why we went away last weekend. Oh, yeah, cute. And that's like so grateful to mum and dad for coming here. Same. Like, best decision ever.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Well, like I wouldn't have met my husband if I didn't move here, kind of thing. I wouldn't have my baby.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

I know. We're driving to like Toyota Fiestas, like oh, such a different lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

That's so funny. Um, what are the facts?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Oh, I'm really bad with facts. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

I like baking. Are you a good baker? Yeah. For baking or over cooking?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

I like both, it relaxes me.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

I don't bake as much with these days because I have two feral toddlers to uh chase around.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

I like to cook, like I love doing a good roast and stuff, but I don't want the kids around.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Like it's it's my relaxing time. I don't mind doing things.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

You don't want the kids under your feet. No, yeah, I don't. Yeah, I'm with you. I completely agree with that. Yeah. So I'll settle for that, that's fine. Yeah. Um on a scale of thriving to crying in the pantry. How are you going in motherhood?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

I think we're in the middle at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Depends on the day.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah. Depends on the week, depends on the day, depends on the hour.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Yeah, it just changes so fast. Yeah. Little humans, lots of big emotions. Yeah. Two toddlers. And lots of emotions is just like being a mum. Yeah. We're just talking about overstimulation and the wiggles before. Like so many things can just trigger a bad hour.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I get overstimulated very, very quickly these days.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

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SPEAKER_01 5:30

Um a Jew, yes. This is a fresh one as well. Um, so I sold our dining room table like a week ago.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Um on marketplace. Yes. Yeah, that's always a journey in itself. And we went and bought a new one, but it's like one to two weeks before it is supposed to arrive. I don't have one to eat. So we don't have one at the moment, which is really annoying. Um generally at the table we have toddler chairs that I can strap them into.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

So they can't leave.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

And they're stuck at the table.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Like the like kind of like a bump bumps.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

It's kind of like a trip trap, but the knockoff version from baby bunting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so we strap them in, they sit at the table, they eat. Dinner time is lovely. At the moment, that is not what's happening. We have their little toddler table that they're eating from. Oh, and they're free-range. And they're free, they're not scrapped in and it is driving me crazy.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Because I just won't sit down and eat.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

They won't sit down and eat.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

I feel like when we got past the high chair stage and we started having the kids in chairs, dinner time just stopped becoming so civilised.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

All I do is go sit down. Yep, eat your food.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Stop playing with your torches. It's so easy to be distracted. It is driving me crazy.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah, I don't I hate to tell you, I don't think that's gonna change.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

And we when the table comes back, they're getting together. Or be distracted.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Well, we I'm very big in like we sit down, we eat dinner together. Yeah, but it is, it's that constant get up, has to have a dance, or has to show me the newest yoga stretch, or like I'm just like, just just sit down. Sit down, finish your fucking dinner. Then you can do whatever you want to do. Just finish your meal, and then they go, I'm not hungry, and then I'll go get distracted, and then come back right before bed and be like, I'm hungry. I'm like, Well, you had the opportunity to eat your dinner and you didn't. Which is actually like I guess a lot of my my fuck around and find out moments this week has been a bit of that. I've been really tired, and I've been like, if you don't eat your dinner, it goes in the bin. Like you don't get anything else. And they've tested that. Oh, I'm just like, no, absolutely not. And then they come out and they go, I'm still hungry. And I'm like, well, I've just put it in the bin. I normally put it in the fridge. I'm that mum. With dinner's in the fridge, but no, I was like this week, I'm done. Like, I can't. I'm not doing this every night. This constant dance of don't sit down and eat your dinner, and then I have to put it on my nah, it's gone in the bin, and the kids are learnt the hard way, but they have to finish their dinner. Yeah, 100%. And we used to do like if you don't like dinner, you can have fruit. Oh no. Oh, you're not that mum. Um bad because it's that they just they hate to our bottomless pits. The thing is, if it's daycare day, yeah, I know they've had three serves of lunch. Well saying, if if correct, but I also feel like at the moment, I'm like, if I'm I'm probably getting a bit more risky with my cooking, then I'll try something a bit different. So I'm like, if I've pushed the boundaries there of something that they probably won't eat, but I'm giving it a go, then I'm like, yeah, you can have some fruit.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Well, we do do yogurt and banana every night, and sometimes they eat that, sometimes they don't, really depends on the mood.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

As a dessert, yeah, putting banana and fruit. So we have the thing. Oh, yogurt and fruit.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

They get they get a treat, but now it's become can I have a treat? Can I have a treat? Can I have a treat? And I'm like, am I badly setting up rewarding them for eating? I don't know, am I gonna cause like eating issues when they're older? It's so hard. Yeah, it is hard. I don't know what the balance is. Now, let's get on to you having twins. So we've just had a quick chat about your pregnancy journey and you finding out. Um, but when you found out it was twins, tell me again, what was your first genuine thought?

SPEAKER_01 8:39

My first genuine thought was where are they gonna go?

SPEAKER_02 8:41

As in physically in you, yeah, because you are a little person.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I was a size six before I was pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I'm not anymore. Um, but I was like, where are they gonna go?

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Where are they physically gonna fit in between all my organs?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, yeah. It's like how much of me is gonna be smooshed. Yeah. And then I did the dumbest thing when I found out so stupid. I went on Instagram and I put in twin pregnancy and looked up the hashtags. Oh god, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

The tummies, you would have said, Oh my god. I was told mum. I was horrified. I was like, I was showing my husband, I was like, I can't be that big. How is this gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

How am I gonna get that big? I'm tiny. Yeah, where are they gonna go? Did you find it hard to breathe towards the end? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Like just yeah, just getting puffed.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, puffed. Yeah. The day I had them, I went out to Berkey with some girlfriends and I didn't park that far away. But I got to the cafe, I was like, oh, I'm so done. I sat down and I'm just like, I'm fucking over this.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

So I was at what 33 weeks.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, I'm so done. And I'm just like, I'm so uncomfortable. I think I bitched about my pregnancy that entire breakfast. Yeah. And then I waddled back to the car and got on on with my day. And then your borders were yeah, crazy. There's more to that story.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yeah. Do you want to talk about your birth story? Yeah, we can. You know, it's not plenty of people.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

You're happy to talk about it in public? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah. We've had the conversation privately, but I just it's not as traumatic as it was. You feel like you've kind of come to terms with it?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah, like I think it took me a few months to talk about it without bursting into tears.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

But your birth wasn't what you're expecting, and it wasn't how you planned it, and it's not nice to kind of have that thrown out the window. No. And it was full of sc well, you tell it.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, so I'll start from semi-the beginning. Um, it was Australia Day they were born as well. It's a public holiday. Right. Um, had breakfield with some girlfriends. My husband and my mum were painting our bathroom that day because I was like, this has to be done before the babies come.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Priorities.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Otherwise it's never gonna get done.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yep. Um just not with lead paint, I assume.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

No. Um and so because our bathroom was wet paint, my husband went to my parents to shower, which is literally like round the corner. Yeah. Um, and I met them there with some groceries, and I was just chilling while he showered. And I literally stood up from the sofa and my waters broke.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

So did it did it land on the sofa?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

No, no, it went on the tuff. My dad was very grateful that it landed on the tiles.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

I mean, he he cleans, he cleans, he cleans couches for a living. Like, come on, he didn't.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Come on, Jeremy, you can clean the water. It went all over the tiles, it was fine. And then that's kind of where it started, and then yeah, we obviously got to hospital. Um and things happen for and things happen really, really quickly. Like it was at the beginning, it was just like, oh, he could be for here for a few weeks. Like, we'll try and keep him in for as long as possible. Cross your legs, pretty much, and then like next minute, emergency button was pressed, and we're rushing down the corridor. You're being knocked out and yeah, we were rushing down the corridor into the other, and I was like, before I knew it, I was being knocked out, and that was it. And then I woke up in recovery and my big big bump was gone.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

And you were planning for a cesarean, that was kind of gonna happen because both babies were breached.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

100%. They were twins, so I wanted a controlled birth. I was really, really scared of trying to go naturally. Yes, because obviously with twins it's really complex. Um like so.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Did you make that decision like really early on, like when you found out you'd had you were gonna have twins? You were like, okay, well I'm doing a cesarean, or did you do research to do that?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I kind of flipped and flopped. Like, because twin pregnancy, you don't see midwives really at all, you see OBs. Okay. Um, because you need that higher level of care because it's high risk. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Um is that every twin pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Or is it my no, because we were in a specialist clinic, so like I saw obstetrician every time. I think I saw a midwife once. Yeah. And that was like my initial appointment.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Where they just go through.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Could tell you that you're uh what your point when your appointments are and what the process is going to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Um so you didn't do shared care, sorry. No, I couldn't. So you couldn't do shared care with GP. You have to go to the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

I would have done shared care if I wasn't pregnant with twins, but because it's instantly high risk. Yep. Regardless. Obviously, there's different risks depending on what kind of pregnancy you have with twins.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Was it because they were separate sacks? Does that make it high?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

I don't know. I don't like it. So there's or if they share a room. There's three types.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

So DCDA, which is what I have. Yes. So separate sacks, separate placentas.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Everything's separate. Oh wow, okay, yep. Um, so yeah, you're growing two babies, two placentas. Yeah. Yeah. Then you have MCDA twins, which are same placenta separate sacks. Yep. And then you have Momo twins, which are same sac, same placenta. So either low-risk risk twin pregnancy. It's still high risk. But it's still high risk compared to pregnancy pregnancy. Yeah, absolutely high risk compared to a normal pregnancy. A normal pregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Um, so yeah, we only saw obstetricians, and like we talked through birth, and it's just kind of one of those things, like you kind of want the control in it, because obviously you could go one of two ways. You could have both twins naturally, all good. You could have one natural once they're in, depending on stuck or what and there's so many unknowns, isn't there? So many unknowns, and I was a candidate for natural um in one ultrasound, and then in between that ultrasound and my next one, I think I decided that I didn't want to go down that route, and I wanted to take the control into the situation, and I was just like I'm gonna elect for a cesarean.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

If you had a normal single child pregnancy, would you have wanted to give birth naturally?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I don't know, I think I'd have just seen what happened.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I my entire life have said I will never push a baby out of my vagina.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I've said that too.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

I've always said, my dad and me have joked my whole life, I'm too poshed to push, it's never gonna happen. And then ironically, I had two cesareans. I just I've I'm not that woman that was like, I am gonna give birth and no pain, I'm like give me all the fucking dogs.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I'm like you.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

I I don't want to feel a single thing. I am not pushing this baby out. Yeah. Raw dog in it. No, absolutely fucking no way.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

No, I I'd always said the same thing. I'm just like, I'm on a cesarean, I never want to do it naturally. And then I don't know, I think it's hard because I'm never gonna know any different.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Also, you even if you conceive again, you'll never be allowed to have a normal pregnancy. You can't push for be back?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Oh, to be honest, I think after a twin pregnancy I just would just Are you done? I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Is Finn gonna get the snip? He's done it.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Yes. So did Ryan as soon as the other pregnancy.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I think the moment I'm done. I think the moment I found out we had two and some are you gonna do it?

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Because we only ever wanted two. Yeah, we've never wanted more than that.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Are you both you're both one of twos, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

He's one of three.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Oh, he's one of three, and one of two. Yep. That you just always knew you wanted one of each. Oh two, two, but we had one of each.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I always wanted two babies. Yeah. Um I always we always said, Oh, we'll start with one.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

And Finn's like, we'll start with one, see how we go.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Well, most people will start with one and see how they go to be fit.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Well, I want two, and he was kind of almost on the like, no, we'll just do one and done.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Joked for years. That I'm just like, well, I'll just have twins, and then I didn't. Yeah, and I'm and then that that choice is taken out of your hands.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Because like it doesn't run in the family, it wasn't a genetic thing, so like you're thinking, ha ha ha ha, this is hilarious. And then I had a minute. You I manifested it by accident. That's so funny. That's such a right for joking.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, it does. I kind of did what I said I would do the whole time. And didn't want to have a McDonald's, so you ticked all those boxes. Yeah, but like in between appointments, I'd like gone, okay. I'm gonna have in between ultrasounds. You just flipped and flopped a bit. Yeah, and I was like, no, I'm gonna have a cesarean 100%, and then the next ultrasound, um, my twin A was breach anyway, so it would have been a C section regardless. You can't.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

They won't let you breach baby.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

They wouldn't let me do two breech babies like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Also, who would want to?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

No, I wouldn't want to, right.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

But we were talking about like leading up to your waters breaking, that you had all this back pain and you're like, oh no, I just have a sore back, I'm pregnant with twins, and that we've realized, well, hang on, two breech babies, you were probably labouring for days without like scoriosis, so I was just like, Yeah, of course my back hurts. Yep, I'm carrying bins.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

I'm in twins, I'm carrying twins, I have a bad back. Like Finn was giving me massages every night because I was like so uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

So rough. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

And then yeah, my mum looks back and she's like, Ellie, I think you're in labour that entire time. I'm just like, yeah, probably. Whoops, the days.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah, I just didn't realise. Also, I think like first-time pregnancy is like you don't know what twins knows. You don't know, you have no idea. But even like I remember with Harry my second time, I had a night when my tummy was so hard and I was like, Oh my god, I'm having contractions, like a sprax and hicks, and I sat in the shower for like an hour, and all I needed to do was just do a mouse of fart. Like the pressure, I was like, This is it. I'm having a baby early. I'm like my my tummy was rock hard, and I was like, I'm having these like pains in my back. And then I fired and I was like, Oh, thank Christ, that's it. It's done. Thank god. But you just don't know, you just don't know so hard and unpredictable. And what I actually found one of the biggest shocks of having a baby full stop was how little we got to see them, like on scans. I see different all the time. Well, with me, I just thought, like in the movies, oh, you go for a scan every week, like you get to see them heaps, and then like, oh no, you get like two ultrasounds if you're lucky, you might get a third. How many do you reckon you had?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Um, I think after your 20-week scan, you have to have monthly ultrasounds, and then it gets even shorter, and then my pregnancy got a little bit more complex, so it got shorter and shorter. And I think near the end it was probably every fortnight.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Or they were gearing up for every fortnight. I was booked in for fortnightly scans going forward. Post 30 weeks would live because she was so little that it was every week. Yeah, because we were having growth scans because one twin had dropped in weight, one twin had was having rising amniotic fluids, so it was just like they just had to monitor everything.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Isn't it just crazy like how many unknowns there are in pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Like you just but also with measurements, I had two babies in there. Yeah, like half the time they couldn't measure my daughter because she was so smoosh. And they're not doing the tummy measurements because like they used to do a measure for my pubic bone. They don't do that between it. Because it makes it's not relevant. No, they do and that's one of the things the midwife appointments is like we do all these things for singleton pregnancies, but it's there's no point. It's irrelevant, it's not irrelevant, it's not gonna mean anything.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

It's just ultrasounds, ultrasounds, ultrasounds.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

So then you went down, you were put under quite quickly. It was an emergency cesarean um because there was a prolapse court. Yep. And then you came too and you saw Emmy within a couple of hours.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah, I came to in recovery. First thing they said to me was your babies are okay. And then I was obviously like, oh how's Finn, my husband? Like, that must have been a lot.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Is he conscious?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, is he alive? Where is he? And she's like, he's fine, he's up with your daughter. I'm just like, oh, thank god. Um so they put me up, they got me onto the ward first. Oh no, I was in no, I didn't go to the ward, I went to the birthing area because there was no room in the ward for me. No, no, no, I was in like where people were giving birth.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Oh wait, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

In a birthing room.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

You're listening to people mwing all night.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, yeah. Um so I went up to a birthing room, had one really lovely midwife who was just like she has to see her babies. And she like advocated me big time, like amazing, full-on advocated, and like got whoever the people are in the hospital that wheel you gotta see. All those like random people that just come over. Yeah, and they just pick you up, they push the bed. Yep. I got C Gus, I got C Emmy. I think I managed to I couldn't really get to Gus that night, but I think I did actually hold Emy that night at about 11 o'clock, so maybe like three hours after I'd had her.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Not bad.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Like I've got photos, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

But I know people that had singleton pregnancies and caesareans and were knocked out and didn't get to see their babies like 12 hours because they were still unconscious. Yeah, there. So, you know, I think I'm well.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Well, thanks to that midwife on night, Judy, that really advocated she pushed it big time. Yeah, that's she pushed it big time. She was like, This is happening.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

I'm just like, okay. That's just nuts, isn't it? But I mean, now they're bigger, they're healthy, they're two, they're perfect and little sassy queens and calm kings. Um, how do you make sure that they feel like individuals rather than always being twins? I know that's hard right now because they're two, but I mean they're going to daycare. Like, are they in the same daycare class? Like, how um are you sort of approaching that easier?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

I think if they're boy girl twins, it's a bit easier. Yep. Because that's that differential between they're not in the same clothes, they're not in they're not in the same bits and bulbs. Yeah, no, no. Um, and they've got wildly different personalities, like they're such different children. Daycare have been trying to separate them when they can. A little bit, yeah. They go to a relatively small daycare, so it's not always possible, but they're trying to separate them for group time and stuff. Not necessarily a little bit for individuality, because I think Gus will do whatever Imogen does.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Okay, he needs to sort of lead his own path as well. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Bit of that, bit of the fact that they just bite each other at daycare. Oh, that's that's my kids. So they need to separate them for that purpose too.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

We went through that stage. All I was doing was signing reports. And it's funny, I don't know if your daycades are saying, but they couldn't tell you the names of the kids. So they were.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Oh like brother and sister, they tell me.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Well, they were just they were just giving you the two reports your child being bitten, your child bit, and I'm like, well, clearly.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Oh no, they don't at my daycare, because I just say to them, like, don't call me if they're biting each other, because you'll be calling me.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

But please call me if they've biting each other. If they bite someone else, please call me. I never did. No, my.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

My daughter hasn't had a couple of kids yet and I get rid of those reports.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

It's so hard because it's like it's just a stage, like it's just a phase that they go through. It is, and we're touch wood. Yep. Coming out the other side. We haven't had too many incidents yet.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

I think when they start to talk and they can communicate. That makes life a bit easier.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Imogen can definitely she can talk more than Gus. Her words are better. But does she talk on behalf of Gus? Well, I know that complexity to that is um Gus needs grommets, add noise and tonsils done. So I don't know how well he can actually hear the poor thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Are you on the list? Are you going private? We'll go in private. Yeah. Are you booked in?

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Hopefully, we'll book in very, very soon.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

So I'll give you the heads up of it having your child go under anesthetic.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Oh, I'm not looking forward to it. I already got Teerie in the car on the way home. I'm just like, I don't know if I can do this.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

So like not that long ago, Livy had her hand smashed by a rocket daycare. Like another child grabbed a massive rocket. We had to get her finger surgically put back together. And she had to go under for surgery. And it's it was it was really confronting. It's confronting not them going to sleep, but they fight it. So it's like they almost have like a seizure wiggling on the table, and you have to hold them down.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

And that was awful.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

That will be awful.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

And then that and then they go, okay, you can go now. And you're like, oh my god, that was like so traumatic, and now I have to leave the room. Oh, it was yeah, it it it it was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

It'll be it and it'll bring up some trauma for you. Trauma from them being in hospital when they were very little as well, probably.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

And I I don't like the chemical smell of hospitals, like that clean that clean anesthetic smell triggers me. But that's not necessarily from having babies, that's just I just don't like that smell.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah, it's a gross smell.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah. So it kind of just gives me a bit of panic.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

But you'll be fine. Like, I know that so many kids that have had to have that done, and it's just been a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

I think I'll be brave in the moment and collapse once he once he goes in. Yeah, you go into mum mode.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, 100%. Like I was like looking at Libby's finger was completely fucked up. I had to be like, you know what? You're fine, like it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

And I'm so brave. Yeah, and I was the I was a bit like that when we were in special care in Nikki. I just had to go into mum mode and just try and like focus on babies.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yeah. You almost don't have the time to process it and let yourself oh no.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Have you? Have you have you gone to counselling or therapy or something? Do you think it's something that might bite you in the ass, or do you think you've coped pretty well with it?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Um, I think I've coped okay with it. I think the thing that will come up if I ever have to have an operation again is the because the first time I've gone under general anesthetic was for my birth.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

It's never happened before, and I think that will be a big trigger for me. Yes. If I ever have to go under a general anesthetic ever again, I'm gonna have to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

You still got your wisdom teeth? I do still have one. Yes, yeah, I went under for my wisdom teeth. That was pretty intense.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

But um, oh I don't know. It's it yeah, might be worth talking to someone.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I think it will just be things that will trigger it and I just have to work on it at that time. Yeah, at the moment until it happens.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

No, and at the moment you're happy and healthy and the kids are good, so have you worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

How do you handle birthdays? Do you do one party and separate cakes or set and separate presents, or are they in that stage where you have to have two of everything, or are you able to sort of give them their individual likes and dislikes?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Like, I think at the moment, first birthday I went full on because I was like, this is gonna be the only first birthday I'm ever gonna throw because I'm not having any more kids after this. Yeah, so I like spent a stupid amount of money on a cake. Yeah, so definitely wasn't doing two because it was really expensive. Um and we like had a not a big party, but we had a decent sized party with everyone we wanted there, and then second birthday, again, just one cake, just family. I think the next birthday when they turn three will be the time where we have to start separating things and doing individual cakes per child.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

In a theme, depending on what they like.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah, because obviously they're at that age, they will be at that age where they have an opinion on what they want. Yeah, whereas like two, they didn't care.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

I don't even think one of my kids even ate the cake I made.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

But they'll have such different interests.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

100%. Yeah. And then I guess we just deal with it as we go.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

That's so yeah, tricky. It'll be an ever-evolving process, I think, of Oh, 100%. The kids they might go and see how you go. They might want a party together, they might not. Do you alternate each year? Because I don't want to throw two parties.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Well, we've even said um we're gonna alternate with the kids. Yeah. But then so Livy had a party last year, so it's Harry's turn for a party this year, but it's Livvy's first year at school, so I feel like you need to have a party. She needs to have a party just to kind of solidify that friendship group. It's kind of like a rite of passage for preps. And then Harry's gonna have a party next year because he'll be in prep. So I feel like we'll just have to start. Maybe we have to do two parties this year. I don't know. One way or the other.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Also, end of Jan babies, so everyone's on school holidays. Everyone's on school holidays. Yeah, but we've got maybe I could just get away with zero parties forever. Just skip it.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Just go on holiday, just like we're getting away. It's Australia weekend. We're gonna be away. Exactly. We'll always be on holiday. Put that money towards a weekend away and enjoy that. We did that last year for Harry's birthday. We weren't away for his birthday, and that was really, really fun. And then this year we were like, okay, we'll go away for Livby's weekend, and then we'll have a party for Harry. But I don't know, ever evolving, like you said, things change all the time. 100%. Do you ever feel guilty that they've always had to share you? Like you've never been able to have that sort of one-on-one time with just one child?

SPEAKER_01 27:16

100% all the time. Yeah, I think it daily, really, because one kid will want more from you than the other kid.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Do you have one at the moment that's demanding more? Are they both?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah, my little girl's very demanding. She's the mummy's girl, she only wants me for everything.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Oh, that's hard.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Like my husband can't do anything. If I'm in the house, he can't change a nappy, he can't do anything. It's like mummy help, mummy help.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Oh, that's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

So it's hard for him because he's like it's not personal, but it definitely hits him hard.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah. Um, you just gotta know that it's just a stage.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

And we've gone through this before, and it's like it's happened before where we have the parental preference. Um you're gonna get rejected soon, and I'm gonna get rejected soon, and I'll just be like, oh okay, fine.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Also, keep in mind that she loves you now in 10 years' time.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Get lost. That's like hate me. And I say that, I'm just like, I need to make the most of it because she's gonna hate me and like stay present. Enjoy the moment 100%.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, the mum guilt starts from day one, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Is it hard trying to give them that one on one time? Like, like are you trying? Like, how do you put that sort of thing in my life?

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I try, like, I've try and like have one-on-one time with my son as much as I can because obviously my little girl is very demanding. Demanding. Yeah. Um but like you get to a point, like sometimes we'll be reading a book, and she literally will pick the book out of my hand and throw it away.

unknown 28:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

When I'm reading it to him, and he's come up to me and read a book. I'm just like, come on, I'm trying to read Gus your book. Yeah, but is it jealousy? I don't know, I think it's just toddless.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah, yeah. It could be just that emotion trying to figure out.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah, trying to figure out I want mum too. And it's like, well, it's Gus's time for mummy. Oh, it's so hard. Yeah. Oh, poor little Inmy. Yeah. Poor little Gus too though. It's so hard. In fantasy had his attention when he was a baby, because he was a terrible sleeper. Oh, really? Yeah, and she was fine. So he he got a lot of crazy how different they are, isn't it? Yeah. He was an awful sleeper.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

I mean, you said before that his talking's not as good either. Do you find that it's hard to not clock them against each other for milestones?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I think you'll always clock them together for milestones because they're the same age.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Like she walked before him, she rolled over before him.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

I don't know if that's a girl thing though. Like girls seem to be.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, and again, boy girl. So like he's always had a really big head, so I just think a lot of things for him was just the proportions, he wasn't in proportion. If his head was too big, pretty much my physio, the physio said that. He's like, well, if he's got like if he's got a like 50%ile head and a five percentile body, of course he's not gonna be able to lift his head up.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I'm sure, yeah, you've got to put it physically makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

It's hard, 100%. Um, and she's a bit more in proportion compared to him.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Um, so yeah, we've all you always you you try not to, but you're always gonna compare milestones.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Yeah always think it's gonna be tricky, isn't it, as they grow up.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

But also Imogen is very much like she'll just do it. He thinks about it and does it, she'll do it and do it badly. Yeah, he'll think about it and just be like, Yeah, look how I'm walking, look at me.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

He'll observe, see the mistake, and then go, I can do that better. Yeah, he's not gonna be competitive at all. No, not at all. He's like, Yeah, yeah, you jump off first. Let's see what let's see what the result happens. He usually fuck around and find out. He's like, Yeah, I mean you jump off first and I'll see. Like, you jump off the cliff and I'll see what happens and then I'll consider it.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

He can also follow sometimes, and it's like she's gonna get him into so much trouble when they're older and he like he's I think it's gonna be hard more so when they gang up on you, when they realise that it's them two against you two.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah, that's what we're struggling with at the moment. They're really playing us off against each other, and that's that's a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yeah, I can imagine that would be.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

But me and Ryan are like, no, no, we're a team, good. It's us against them. We have to constantly check in because like did you say they could do that? 100%. 100%. That's all that's all we're doing at the moment. Who do you think coped better during the newborn stage? You or Finn? Oh, Finn. Is that because I mean you you mentioned earlier you were breastfeeding and stuff, like it was it just hard because he felt a bit useless, or he copes better.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I think I think he had to. I think just by default, because I was struggling so much.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

As in you were struggling mentally, physically with breastfeeding?

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Everything, everything. I think because obviously they were premature, so they were in hospital for three weeks. So you start off pumping, you're not starting off breastfeeding, they were too little to be able to feed at all from me, so they were like um tupid for the first few weeks for the first couple.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Um And then you've got that delayed attempt of trying to breastfeed. How did they then go trying to breastfeed?

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Um, I think the positive thing about being in special care is that a lot of the special care nurses are also lactation consultants. Oh, amazing. Which was amazing. And on multiple occasions, my special care nurse was the lactation consultant in the hospital. So that was fantastic and she was really helpful. She got such good hands on her. But I was triple feeding for six weeks, essentially. Triple feeding? Yeah. Pumping and then feeding two babies. Pumping, pumping, trying to breastfeed, and then bottle feeding. Yeah, Jesus. Like every three hours. It's a lot. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Um it's a lot to do that for one baby, let alone two.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, and everyone like my son grasped the breastfeeding thing pretty quickly. Like he was great. Yeah. My little girl took a lot of effort, a lot of time, a lot of tears to get her there. And I think everyone was just like, she'll just click one day. Did you and she did, but I didn't believe him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Did you feel a lot of pressure to want to breastfeed? Did was that something you were like really strong on?

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Um, I was very indifferent at the beginning to be honest. So I was just like, yeah, we'll just see what happens. Like, I'll see if I can.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

And I don't know if it's because they're in special care that I just felt like I had to, yeah. Or like at least try.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Um, I was lucky to be able to do it and get enough to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Um once I got taught how to tend and breastfeed by a lactation consultant to change my world. What was that? Two football holds? Yeah. Yeah, it was my favourite. Yeah, two football holds. That was a game changer because it just cut the feeding time in half.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Not only that, it gets you on the same routine. Yeah. Like that, well, we'll talk about routine later, but yeah, like that just helps set you up for success in general.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

So much easier. And like once Amy clicked on, oh, I can do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Do you think also it helps because you've got then the two babies so close together? Like, I don't know, like you see all these things about twins when they're tiny and they like reach out for each other in incubators and things. Like, do you think that there's something about them knowing that each other are so close too? Or not really?

SPEAKER_01 33:40

I don't know. I definitely I've caught them whole I used to catch them holding hands every now and then when I was feeding. I'm just like, oh my god, I'd I had no hands free to be able to take photos.

unknown 33:47

That's so heartbroken.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Because I had two babies and I was like, okay, I'm just like, this is adorable. Yeah, that's so sweet. Or they had they'd fall asleep holding hands, feeding, and stuff like that, which was really cute. Um, but we had them in separate bassinets from daydot anyway, so they weren't sleeping together. Um I know some two twin mums have them in the same cot.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Oh, I just had this gear of SIDs. I don't know I just would be so scared. Me too, yeah. Um terrified. What was the most useless advice you were given when people found out you were having twins?

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Buy two of everything because then they won't fight.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Oh, okay. And you just haven't found that the thing?

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah, no, they fight over the regardless. Regardless. You buy two of everything and they're fighting over the same ones.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

They don't care, it's about who's touching that specific one.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Pointless, don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah, actually, no, I agree with that. We've had a bit of that.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

We're definitely in the pink and blue stage. Like, if we get two lots of bubbles, one has a pink one, one has a blue one. Yeah, and we have to be like, no, no, no, you've finished yours. The other one's Olivia's or the other one's Harry's, you don't get to touch that anymore. But they're a couple years older, so it's a bit easier when you go.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

We're we're learning, sharing at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

We're biting each other if we don't get our way, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Well, we do that too. Different than happens in my house as well. I was just saying breakfast age you're in.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Um, did you lose friendships having twins because it made it harder to leave the house? Or do you or just sort of I think just becoming a mum, having friends that don't have kids? Have you found that journey tricky?

SPEAKER_01 35:08

No, my friends were awesome.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Oh, that's the best.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Like um, my three closest girlfriends, one lives in Sydney, so obviously I couldn't see her as much. She does have a child, yeah. So it was good to talk to her about mum stuff, and then my two other friends didn't have kids at the time. Um, and they were awesome. Like, if I was having a shit day, that friend would be over. We'd be going for a walk.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

That's the best.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Which was great, because I definitely reached out when I was just like, guys, I need some girl time, like you can come over. Like so they were really good, they really made the effort to come and see me rather than expect me to come out and see them. Yes, they're not going, oh, come for breakfast. And you're like, I can't leave a house with two kids. Yeah. Or like, especially when you're in that like breastfeeding routine where you just like you can only leave like an hour, yeah. And you're just like, Well, I can't leave them.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Um, because then my husband's got two screaming babies to deal with, not one time. Yeah, um it's hard. And he hasn't got two boobs to help, so and they wouldn't take bottles at that point, so it was me or nothing. Um, no, they were great. My friends were awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Oh, that's amazing. I was really lucky all my friends had babies at the same time, so we were all in COVID bumping into each other at the park with our babies, like it was that sort of stuff because we had no other choice, and I wasn't gonna sit at home and be isolated. No, fair, don't mind me. Um, but to our village verdict and going back to the routine, like hardcore routine, double feeding at the same time. You're a routine mum, not a go-with-a-flow mum. Nope. I'm also a routine mum, like, but I think a lot of it for me stemmed from sleep training, and then now it's more me controlling how the day goes. Like I feel better knowing the routine, me mentally, yeah. Than things getting out of flow and out of whack. Yeah. Um, but were you a routine mum from day one, or did you just sort of follow the babies and then hope for the best and then kind of found your way?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Or um, well, we kind of had to be routine from day one. Because of the feeding schedule? Because of the feeding schedule, because Prem's babies. So like hospital would feed them three hourly when they got home. I fed them three hourly, regardless if they were awake or not. Like if the three-hour mark hit and they hadn't woken up, too bad you're getting woken up and you're getting feed.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Did they do dream feeds like sleep through a feed or you fully woke them? No, that wasn't happening.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Well, because they were so little, we needed them to be fully awake actually. Fully awake, actually feed, because obviously they get so tired when they're that little just feeding.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

We had that, and I used to have to take off Libby's shirt so she was cold.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yeah, no, so I would the first thing I would do is I'd change their nappy to wake them up every time. Yep. And obviously, they'd probably do shit while I was feeding them, so you'd have to change them again. Yep. Um, but yeah, you this is what the hospital taught us you do their nappy and then you feed them. So you get them awake and then feed. And we were doing that every three hours. I think once they were putting on a good amount of weight every week, my maternal health first overnight was just like move to four hourly, you can start. Let them wake you up, letting them stretch, and let them tell you when they were feed when they need a feed. But obviously, if one kid woke up, the other one got woken up for me.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

We did a few nights where I didn't do that and I didn't sleep because they just tag teamed your tag teamed all night.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

You'd be better off if one woke up, wet the other feed them both, and then at least you knew you'd get the next block.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

I'd get a little bit of sleep. Yeah, like I remember the nights where we didn't do that and I just started crying. I was like, what have we done? Oh I'm so tired. Like no one sleeping. Um, and like I'm the kind of person when they were crying or unsettled, like, I can't sleep through that. Like I was just crying the whole time. I was just like, I can't do it. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

I used to find it hard if like Ryan would take one of the kids for a feed in the living room, like if I was trying to sleep, but I'd be hearing them crying, and then I'm like, I can't sleep through that. Like I I would just get up and go, I'll just do it.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Like, I can't. I'm the exact same thing. Yeah, I couldn't, or I'd just listen to them cry and be in bed while my husband was trying to console the baby.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Oh, it's so hard. Yeah. So they were both feeding and trying to get them to sleep at the same time. Did did that work? Did that it did? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

And then just got them to stretch that out. Because you said Imy was a shit sleeper though. Gus. Oh sorry, Gus was well Gus was crap. So Imy then what would stretch it out the whole night and you'd be fine, but then Gus was just a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Oh Gus, uh they didn't sleep through the night for a long, long, long time. Oh really? Yeah. Like Gus was the when I say bad sleeper, he took a lot more effort to get to sleep. To settle them. To settle. Amy could settle herself a little bit. Um when you've got twins in you by yourself, I just took the baby that I knew would take the longest to settle.

unknown 39:34

And that was.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Which is Gus. So Amy would essentially almost just kind of cry until she gave up and just went, Oh, I'm gonna go to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Um I might as well just go to sleep now.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Because I can't you can't rock two babies at the same time. Yeah, um, and that's a bit again where the mum guilt comes in because I was like, well, Gus needs me right now, he's 100% not gonna go to sleep, and you're not gonna go to sleep if he's crying. So I need to settle him to get him quiet, and then you'll go off to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

What battles are worth picking?

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah, which one do I choose, right? Yeah. Um so what about naps?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Were you hardcore on naps and like that routine? So were we. So I used to be like my day trips and would be planned. So for ages we couldn't go out for lunch because we would be home for naps, and we couldn't go out for dinner because we had to be home by a second time at bed. That's at the moment. Yep. Like we're 12:30 napples that went around anywhere. Yep. I'm not doing that. We've just two cranky kids. But even now, like the kids are hardcore on a seven o'clock bedtime. We've just started doing a dinner, like we might go to dinner or go to like a family birthday for lunch for dinner, but like we want to be back home. They need to be not in the car at seven o'clock because I'll fall asleep. Yeah, so it's such a tricky and we have what two, three years ahead. So I'm just I am just that mum. Like, we're stuck in this. I like the routine.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah, I was big on routine, I was big on wake windows. I'm just like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Oh, how incredible is it to learn about wake windows? That that should be handed, given to you on a pamphlet when you leave the hospital. Dr. Golly taught me about wake windows, that was my thing. I was like, oh my god, wake windows, body hotties. It's nuts that that's not just a standard handed out in a brochure when you leave the hospital. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah. 100%. And we followed those, I followed those really strict. So I'm like, we have to be active this time for them to go to bed. We can't let them fall asleep in the car because then we're never gonna get them to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Um, I did the white noise. Yep. Big on white noise. Yep. Mainly because they share a room and I didn't want the other one waking the other two up. So we needed the white noise to kind of counteract each baby. Yep. Um, like very like no feeding them to sleep. No, I never fed them to sleep. Never. Um we did do a day of sleep school, which really helped.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Through the council? Yes. Yep. Which was great. Didn't you found that good? Loved it. Yeah. Yep. Just helped you. I mean, just as a twin mum, like fuck, it's just so hard to figure that out. Like, I think just give you that structure that you needed. It kind of taught us what to listen for. Yeah, okay. Um once you start to learn what's a moan.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Like what's a moan, what's a distress cry? Are they escalating or are they just toning it down and moaning? That was really helpful. It was helpful that my husband could come along as well.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

And you don't get to you don't have to panic. Like you're like, that's just a moan, they're not upset. Yeah. I just knew that.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

And the nurses are just guiding you through the whole thing. And I was like, oh, that was really helpful.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

You know they have a dry nappy, you know they've been fed, you know that they're warm enough. And then it is, it's learning that cry of like, no, no, you're just moaning. I'm gonna let that pass. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

100%.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Hard, hard doing the sleep training though.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

It is, but I it was a necessity for us to get any ounce of sleep.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

100%. Are they sleeping through the night now? Yeah, 7 till 7. Oh, amazing. You put them in the cot, you go, bye. And then good night. See ya. Walk out. We're living our best lives for ages when they're in the cots. We'd have our nap down pat. And then Harry figured out how to get out of his cot before Libby did.

unknown 42:44

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

So he then taught Libby how to get out of her cot. Of course he did. Yeah. So fucking second Charles Syndrome. So then we were like, okay, we had bet cots that were converted to toddler beds. Yeah, I have your cots. Oh, of course you do. Of course you do. So then so we had those. We had the sides off and we put them into toddler beds. And then I nearly went insane over a week, and I was like literally throwing Harry back into his bed. And I'm talking like WrestleMania slamming him back down his mattress. And I was like, I'm not coping. Harry is not ready for a big boy bed. Livy was straight, straight away, took a couple of nights putting her back, and then she was good. She was good in a big girl bed, no issues. Harry was just cheeky and climbing out and just had no interest. And there was never you're watching him on the camera, and he would laugh as soon as you'd leave the room. He just thought it was this game. So we ended up putting the cop back on. He was one and a half.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Oh that young.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Oh, like I mean, just walking. Like could climb over the edge. Mate, and that kid is solid. He's so strong. He's been like a gymnast since he was a kid. Like he has got a full six pack. He is solid. And he yeah, could climb out. So then, and this is us putting the the mattress all the way down, like all the things he could just climb out. So we got him like a mosquito net tent. That had the zip upside down. So he couldn't reach the zip to climb out. And the mattress went inside it in the cot. So that lasted us another like six to twelve months. And then he finally got a big web bed. And then he was ready. But mate.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Mine is staying in cots until do it as long as you can.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

In fact, when they figure it out, then get the mosquito nets because it gets you. I'll send you the link on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

I should do a sponsored post. But they game changer. And we took that on holiday with us. We took it to Queensland because we knew he'd be in a travel cot. Best thing ever. Like it it got us another 12 months, I reckon.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Like we're luckily not at that stage. Like my daughter can get herself out of her sleepsack, so we put that on backwards now.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

We did the backwards slick.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

And then when we get past that, it's going to go inside out backwards.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

No, we we did the backpack. But we're backwards, and she can't get out of it, thank you. Correct. We that they never figured that out. But this is the problem. It was Harry would climb up and still flick a leg over even in a sleepsack and then shuffle out. So he he was just another one.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

So you have I don't have the legs separate on this.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

No legs, no, no legs. No, I'm talking like he's just another level mate. Bless. Nut job. Um so you're strict with strict with nap times, you race home for naps. Not gonna let them sleep anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Look, we have the odd car nap if I know it's gonna be a decent journey.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Oh, we used to time it. We were like we'll leave it, we'll leave it this time.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

So we can have an hour nap in the car, and then we'll arrive where we need to be and they'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

If we I now, even now, Harry's now four, if he has any type of nap, even if it's 10 minutes, I'm fucked till midnight. Like he'll be up, right? So now, any time past 2 pm, if we have to be in a car for more than half an hour, I'm like, absolutely not. Like, we're not doing it. We can do 10, 20, 15 minute drives, anything longer than that, he'll fall asleep. Yeah, even like 15 minutes back from daycare, I've got to be like, how many cows can you see? How many donkeys can we see? Like we've got to keep him awake because if he falls asleep, I'm screwed. Oh yeah. The only time I'll let him do it, he has five minutes on the way to swimming sometimes because he needs the energy boost to do the swimming and then he absolutely is back, is in bed by six because he's so fucking tired. Um, do you think the strict routines given you more freedom because you then know what your child's gonna be? Like you can go out for breakfast and go, they'll be fresh as daisies. Yeah. Or do you think you feel a bit like trapped by the clock with your routine?

SPEAKER_01 46:24

I don't feel trapped anymore. Um it just works for you. It works. I I I know I can go out for dinner, my parents or Finn's parents can put them to bed and have no problems.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

So they have no issue anyone else puts them together.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Anyone can put them to bed, doesn't matter who. Yep, because they know that we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Bedtime's bedtime.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Bedtime, it's like this. Everyone does it the same for them. They just go to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

What is it? Bath, bottle, book, bed?

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Sleeps out, white noise, yep, lights out, see.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

That's it. So no night light, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

I have a red light, but it's not that bright.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

We used to have sleep in the dark, and now they're the age that they're like pretty much in the dark. I'm scared of what's in the cupboard, so now we have all the night lights and things. But no, I think that we I felt most trapped was when they were at the age where I had Harry needed a nap in the morning and the afternoon, and Libby was on one nap at lunchtime.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Well, yeah, you would be trapped because they're sleeping most of the day, you're not leaving the house.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

So I literally went about three months where I couldn't leave the house at all. And then I was like, fuck this. So I started stretching Harry out and just made him have like a three-hour nap in the middle of the day. So he dropped two naps a lot earlier. Yeah. But had a massive midday nap. Yeah. And then he'd go to bed at like six o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Like, I think we were really I was really strict when we started the whole when we were on three naps. I was super strict. Like my first two naps, I was like, they have to be in the cot, they have to be at home. Yep, nowhere else.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

But third nap can be like on a walk or something.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

The third nap was generally a walk because that was the really that was the hardest one to get them asleep for. So that was my my mental health walk for the day. And if I walk too much. And by that time of the day, you had to get out of the house. I was like going insane. I was like, I've gotta leave. Um, and that was like our two hour, like one and a half to two hour walk, and I just walk. Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

One and a half or two hours, you were just happy.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

I put a podcast in. If people, if kids were crying, I just kept walking, I'm just like, yeah, we'll just get oxygen.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

We'll do you good. Yeah. Breathe deeper.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Yeah, pretty much. I'm just like, I need this for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Mummy can't hear you.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

No, mummy's got her hair air pods and I can't hear anything.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Do you think strict routines actually help kids, or do you think it mainly helps parents feel more in control?

SPEAKER_01 48:17

I think it's a bit of both. I think they know what to expect. So they know what to expect from bedtime. Like they know their routine, they're happy with it. I think it gives them a good foundation of what to expect. And like we went overseas last year to England with them. And where did you go with adjusting day and night? Like, that's backwards. Yeah, okay. Because we kept to our like rel relatives. You just had to strip our team. Yeah. Um, the flight was terrible.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Um, but like Did you have mum and dad with you on the flight? Yeah, thank god. So you just kind of handled them around?

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Yeah, to the best of our ability. Yeah. Um yeah, we went to England and the routine helped because we kind of got there and we just we got straight back into it and it it worked.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

And it's 7am, you don't get a nap till lunchtime and just kept it going like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Yeah, and we did, if we knew we were driving like an hour, we just we timed it again so that we knew that they'd have their nap in the car by the time we got to our destination, they could wake up and have a lot of time. Have a three hour's wake time and you'd be fine and do all the things. And we just kind of timed our days like that while we were away. And it worked.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Like we had a few iffy nights, but do you avoid plans now if it's gonna mess with that routine?

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

I think we just went through a few years, like I said, we weren't going out for dinners, we weren't going out for lunches, depending on when naps were. Like we for years, Ryan's family does a lot of nighttime come around for dinner, we'll celebrate so and so's birthday, and we're like, we're really sorry, we just can't. Like, we just can't do the evenings, it just doesn't work for us. And like I said, we've just got to that point of like, yeah, we can come now.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Like if it's at my parents, it's easy, not far from home. Yeah. Or we could stay over. Yeah. And they sleep in the travel courts at mum and dad's. Same with Finn's parents. If we go over there in Dockland, we'll just stay over the night.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Yeah, it just makes life easier.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

It just makes life easy, and then you're not feeling like you have to rush home.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

You can spend a time.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

And if they're comfortable and they will sleep there, it's no easy.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

They will, they'll sleep in a travel court, no problem. Yeah. Um as long as we bring our fancy travel court mattresses, they will sleep in the travel courts, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Have you found it like expensive having to have two travel courts there, two travel courts at Finn's? Like it's Finns aren't cheap. Yeah. Two car seats and both cars.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

No, we only have one car with car seats.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

How do you manage that?

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Well, me and Finn are public transporting to work and he works from home most of the time, so it doesn't matter. It just works. It just works.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

So how do you do daycare drop-off and then catch the train?

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Whoever the way we do it is if Finn's in the office, I'm working from home. So I do the daycare drop off. Both your work our work from home days don't align.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

It's arranged with everyone that your routines are just aligned. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Well, we also only have one desk, so we can't work from home at the same time because there's no space. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I have Wednesdays off, he's in the office, I work from home Thursdays, he's in the office, so he does the daycare drop-off Tuesday, Friday, I do it. It just works. It just works. We figured it out.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Amazing. But you have two cars?

unknown 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

But just one car with car seats.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

To be fair, we had one car with car seats, and then they just got to the age where we could get those sort of like booster seats when they weren't quite in like the proper reverse seating and now I figured out how to install the car seats, I could move them if I needed to. Yeah, that's been a whole stress in itself. I didn't think that'd be so bloody difficult when I was becoming a mum.

unknown 51:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Okay, so finished with the routine conversation, but I want to talk to you about being a mum in general and how you found that journey separate from the kids, you as a mum. What's a parenting hill that you'll die on?

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Um screen time can be really useful if you use it right.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

We're all about the screen time. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Yeah. I've had to use screen time to break up fights. Yep. To just snap them out of trying to kill each other.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

That's worked.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Who wants Dr. Wiggles?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Oh, Bluey. Bluey. Seven minutes of Bluey will do wonders.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Like that's a good thing with Bluey though, is that it is seven-minute episodes.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Yeah, I can just put one episode, two episodes on, and I'm like, well, that's only 15 minutes, so we're good.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Yeah, but also.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Now we're turning it off.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

We weren't like we haven't got screen kits at all. Um, but we always had the TV on just in the background. So I feel like it's never been their special thing because we've just it's always been on, but it's not something that they get zoned in on.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

It really depends on what's on the TV.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

If blue is on, you're not breaking into gaze. Like I'm waving my hands in front of them and they're just not moving.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

If it's something they really could not give a crap about, they're not watching it.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

And they're off doing their own things.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

Are you the month that will just turn it off or do you always have it on in the background?

SPEAKER_01 52:31

No, I very rarely have it on.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Um, and so they don't get too upset when we turn it off. I always say, okay, say bye bye to Bluey, and we say bye-bye Bluey, we turn the TV off.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Is that you also with your overstimulation? Just finding that's too much.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah, because if you've got kids going crazy, the TV's blaring, I'm just like, I'll just it's too much.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Yeah, no, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Turn something off, and I can't turn the volume of the children off.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

I can't switch them off. I can't switch them off, no. So the TV's going. That's fair. What's something people don't talk about enough in motherhood?

SPEAKER_01 53:00

I just think how hard it is, how hard things can be. Like, um breastfeeding is hard. I remember having a conversation with one of my friends, and she's like, it's really hard. I'm just like, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

It's just not like the movies.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

No, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

I don't just like jump on and then there's this beautiful journey. Like it it the pain. I I really didn't know how much breastfeeding would hurt to start with, until then you get it right, until you learn how to latch properly. Um, and like it's just it is it is yeah, really fucking hard.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yeah, and you don't realise it until you go through it. I think there's lots of things that motherhood mums don't talk about until like you have a friend that comes to mum, she's like, Yeah, how hard is it?

SPEAKER_02 53:44

But even like you were saying before, like we talked about your birth story earlier, and you're like, you know, in a whole hoo-ha's out and you've got a doctor's hand up there and stuff, and I'm like, something that wasn't talked about was how comfortable I'd now be with anyone being involved up there because I'm like, I've had two babies now, like I'm just like, it's all G's, like that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

I remember like birth definitely takes dignity out of all things. I don't have any dignity and just seen it.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Yeah, I'm like, it's all good. I even will never forget when I got my epidural. I had a bunch of student nurses come in. Oh no. And they were like, Um, we've got some training nurses coming in. Would you mind if they give you um an examination, like an internal examination? And I was like, no, go for it. Like I couldn't feel anything. Like at this point it's oh, because the epidural is the epidural. And then she could feel nothing, it was great. They did a really good job with the epidural. And then this nurse with her, like, hand up me. And she was like, I can't feel the head, like I can't feel anything. And I mean I could feel enough, but I just said to her, um, I don't think you're in deep enough darn. I was like, you have to put in a few minutes. I'm just laughing at your fuck, mate. She's like, well, yeah, anyone, no, it was like go for it, go for your life, guys. I can't feel anything anymore.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Yeah, but I would say it's hard.

unknown 54:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

And you don't know until you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

And I think this is why I want to start this podcast because I do think that the hard parts aren't talked about enough. 100% then. And I think that especially on social media, a lot of it's just washed over. And it is everyone's highlight reel, and this is the continual conversation I'm having, and with other mums too. Like when you catch up for a coffee and you go, This is the shit I've dealt with this week. And I'm like, oh, it's not just me.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Yeah, yeah. Or you're texting your mum friends, it's like, what is this?

SPEAKER_02 55:21

Yeah, it's so important, I think, to also have good mum friends around you that you can reach out to and unleash. Yeah. I think it's so important. 100%. What is your survival tip for mums? Would it be that?

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Not village, you need your village.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

I mean, you're very, very fortunate that your family are heavily involved, like it's great.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

They're all heavily involved, it's great. And I think the thing is, is again, being twins, I think both sets of parents were just like, we're gonna have to be here for these two big time because this isn't gonna be easy for them.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

First time around having twins, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

First time around having twins, new parents, no twins in the family. It's like all new to everyone. And like my dad could tell just by my voice on the phone if I'd had a bad night. Oh, and if he heard my voice, he'd be like, I'm coming over. We need to go for a walk. We let's go get a coffee. Like he just knew, or he'd just look at me and be like, You've had a shit night. Like, you need help.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

What?

SPEAKER_01 56:20

And he would drop everything, dad would drop everything and just come and help me for the day if I needed it, or take the kids out for a walk so I can sleep.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

I don't know how nice to have that relationship with your dad, because I don't think many women have that relationship with their fathers. Like, I think like I'm closer than my dad, but most of the time it's my mum that I rely on for that sort of stuff. So, how do you think it's bought you and your dad a lot closer together?

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Well, I think I moved to Australia bought us closer together because my mum became the breadwinner. Yeah, so she was always working, not always working, but she was working, and dad kind of took the back step and so he was doing school drop-offs after school pickups. He was, yeah. Yeah, so I think that definitely became close, and obviously still go to my mum for things, but my mum's job is less flexible than my dad. My dad's self-employed. But you can be very close to your dad. Yeah, both me and my sister are, yeah. Um, and we're close to mum too, and dad has the flexibility to just be able to drop everything and help if needed.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

What a legend.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Which is great. Whereas my mother-in-law, like she will again drop everything, but she's in Docklands, like it's like a 40-minute drive. My dad can drive two minutes and he's at my house. Yeah, very close. Or to walk over.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Yeah. What's something you've judged yourself for that your kids couldn't care less about?

SPEAKER_01 57:27

How good of a mum I am. There's definitely been, especially in that first year, I think it was just one of those years where I was just like, I just felt like I was failing all the time.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Do you think that that was because you're in that constant state of exhaustion and constant state of survival?

SPEAKER_01 57:39

And you're just in full survival mode the whole time, and like just the smallest things, you're just like, Oh, I'm doing the worst job, and I just end up in tears and just like I just I feel like I'm failing them, like I'm not doing enough. But like then you look at these two little dumplings smiling up at you and they don't care and they're just like they're fed, they're clothed, they're happy, like you're doing your bit, right?

SPEAKER_02 58:01

Or their world, like they they don't know what's right or wrong, like yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is hard, isn't it? Yeah, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

Oh, 100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Even I have days like we have a rough day and I they go to bed and I then get this immense feeling of guilt. I'm like, I could have been a better mum today. Then the next morning, the first thing Libby will be will come in and I'm like, Can I have cuddle? I love you, mummy, like yeah, and then can we go do this together? And I'm like, Oh, you're not holding a grudge. Yeah, like I yelled last night.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yeah, you have those days where you yell and you snap and you're just like, oh my god, like an awful person.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

I'm a terrible person.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

No, they don't, and it's like I love you, cuddle. So it's like, oh okay, you're not that hurt.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

No, I do find though that they are at the age where Libby knows when I'm upset, like she knows when I'm angry or I'm pissed off at a brother or I'm I'm raging around the house for whatever reason. Yeah, mine don't. And she fawns, so she comes up and she's like, I do love you, mummy, and like, oh bless. And I'm like, oh stop it, please stop. Make me feel worse. It makes me cry. Please don't try and make me feel better because you feel bad. Like, yeah. I might try not to emotionally fuck up my children, but yeah, she's very emotionally intelligent, which is really. Um, whereas Harry's more likely just when I'm wound up, come up and like punch me in the bum and just like wind me up further. Like, doesn't have that emotional. Not yet. He'll get it. Oh, I don't know. Hopefully, he's hit his head too many times. Um, what would you say to a mum that's listening who feels like everyone is doing in motherhood better than her?

SPEAKER_01 59:17

I don't think anyone's doing motherhood better than anyone. Which is why I think it's important to have these conversations because I think we're all struggling in different ways.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Right?

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Stop looking at people's highlight reel and realise that there's always hard days.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

100%. Like I would compare myself to singleton mums all the time. Just like, how can they be getting out and doing all these things? And I have one and I can't leave the house.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

And then you look at it and you're just like, they've got one. Yeah, it's easier.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

Have you found being on social media and following people with twins has helped at all? Or do you think that's made it worse? Yeah, I think. No, it's helped because have you found some really good people that are real and like are honest?

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Yeah, so there's this new podcast that just started, specifically for parents of multiples.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

And it is so relatable. I've listened to episodes and almost cried because I'm just like, this is me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

This is exactly how I feel like fresh air, and to hear, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

And to hear people who've gone through the exact same problems or felt the same things has just been like like oh thank god, like someone gets it. Yeah, because I don't have any twin mum friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:15

I mean, or many people would. No, do they put you in touch with that like through maternal health? Like, do they have any like twin mum maternal health groups like anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

Like there is the multiple births association which you can join, okay, which I did for the first year.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

But does that put you in social groups in the area or no?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

Yes and no. Okay. Um, I did go to one twin meetup.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

Yep. How was that?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

It honestly it came off the back of like the worst night I've ever had.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

You just were not in the headspace at first.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

Was not in the headspace. My dad drove me because I was so sleep deprived that there was no way I was getting under the wheel of the car, and my dad came with me to help stand it. He dropped everything and it's like, I'll drive it, I'll take you. Yeah, it's fine. Because I was so desperate to go because I was like, I need to meet more twin mums. Yeah, like and I only went to one because again, twins, it's so freaking hard when they're that little to just leave and do things and be social.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

But also, I just feel like even being a mum to go to a playground and have a coffee with a friend who also has kids, you can't fucking talk to each other. No, you don't because you're chasing around your children.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

I'm chasing around two kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

Yes, I'm and trying to stop my child kill himself from throwing himself off something, which is so hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

Or breaking up the fight over the swing or something like it's just hard to hold a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Yeah, very hard. I have to say, I've it took me a few years to figure that out. I think same with my friends, like we were trying to do all these play, we're all on maternity leave and we're all trying to like do these catch-ups with our kids, like, yeah, let's make our kids best friends, right? And we're like, no, I don't give a shit about my kids being friends with your kids. I'm friends with you, and I want to do it. And I want to catch up with you. So now it's like kids go down, cool, come around for a cup of tea, come around for a cup of like that's been really important because fuck me, you can't hold a conversation. I even like with mum and dad, we catch up and like the kids are always around it, and like so my brother's in the army, he's traveling, like you know, he gets a posting or whatever. Yeah, I don't hear about it until I see him on 360 app in another country. And I'm like, oh, I don't know if that's leaf. I don't think he we should know where he is sometimes. I feel like you shouldn't. Yeah, like some of them like Jack, I don't know if we're supposed to know where you are located. But um Is this classified or not? Yeah, and then they'll be like, Oh yeah, he talked about a month ago. And I'm like, oh I don't get just we don't finish a conversation. So I've made a really big point of like I've caught up with dad by just just doing us two me and my mum see each other all the time. Yeah, um, and we'll catch I'll drop in, have lunch, have a coffee. But then when the kids are around, I have to have that one-on-one time.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Well, me and my dad do a walk every Wednesday morning. Oh, it's my day off when we go get coffee with the kids?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Yeah. What are the kids call Jeremy?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

His granddad.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

Granddad.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:43

Can they say it? Yeah.

unknown 1:02:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

Oh they can say every grandparent's name now. Oh, that's the best. So I'm just like, what's mum? Mum's nanny.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Nanny, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

And Finn's parents are grandma and grandpa.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

So they're all different.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

So we've got three nannies. So whenever we say, Oh, we're seeing nanny today, the kids are like, which one? We have to go nanny and grumpy, nanny and papa, or nanny with a cat.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

That's how they identify it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

But then we've got great grandparents too, so it's just like, Well, our great grandparents are grandma and grandpa, and then they're nanny and granddad's that's what I call them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

So I keep them nanny and granddad, yeah, because they can't really say great nanny yet. They will.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Well, my grandparents came Christmas just gone. They reckon last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

Because you've all had COVID, so you couldn't. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

So their grandma and grandpa and grandma and grandpa, first of all, there's been this whole thing that they want me to call them Helen and Wall. No. And I'm like, that's my reaction.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

No, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

I'm like, absolutely not. Grandma and Grandpa forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

My nan and granddad would never turn around if they call me Ellen and Margaret.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

And I was like, absolutely not. Fucking off. I was like, no, that's not happening. But their excuse their thing was, Well, you're all adults now. I'm like, I don't give a fuck, you're gonna be my grandmum and grandpa forever. I I wouldn't even call my mum her first name.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

So weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

Anyway, I'd be clear.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

I've called my mum her first name before and the scale I get from my mother for not calling her mum, and I'm in my 30s.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

I can't I can't call my mum and dad Lynn and Paul.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

Never. No. Actually, it's funny, me and Mum are talking about if I worked with mum, if I was like, because they're always hiring and stuff. Mum's like, oh, can you imagine if we worked together?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

You'd have to call her by her first.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

It'd be impossible. Like I just think we'd be so inappropriate. Like, you know, someone would say something stupid and we both look at each other and go, ugh, you know. But then so when grandma and grandpa came over, they were they kept correcting the kids to say great grandma and great grandpa. And I just kept saying, No, it's just grandma and grandpa, like stop making it harder than it needs to be. What do you want your kids to learn from the way that you talk about yourself and other mums?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

I just want them to be kind and good people, yeah, and be confident. Yeah. You know, I've always been a relatively confident person in myself. Um, and I want them to get that too. I want them to be confident and believe they can do anything, be anything, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

And I want them to be kind people.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

Just put a bit of kindness back into the world. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really beautiful. What's your this made-me-feel human again thing outside of motherhood? If you dare say Pilates at 6 a.m. I'm gonna shoot you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

That doesn't make me feel human, I feel like absolute shit at 5am. Somebody messaged me that the other day, I'm like, fucking hell, good for you. Only time I get out. Um I recommend that first haircut I got after having the kids. Oh really? My mum paid for me to get my hair done.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

And that felt magic.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

And it felt so good. Because I hadn't done my hair in like a year.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

And mum's just like, I'm booking you in. I'll take the babies. You go get your hair done.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

Just having that pamper.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Yeah, yeah. That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

There's nothing better than getting your hair professionally washed. The head massage you get. Yeah. And it never feels as clean as it does when you come out of a sale. My neck can never glow dry at the same time. I used to buy all the products and I'm like, I can't do it. It's wasting my time and money. Like, I just I'm just gonna let you the professionals do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

Doesn't wash the same, even if I use your products, it's so different. It's a total scam, I think. Yeah. They're full of shit. But also Pilates. No, to be fair, I love Pilates too, don't get me wrong. And actually, I've really gone into reforma Pilates. Yeah, that's what I do. I've been I've got a really bad back too, so I've got a bulge disc, so I've had to be on no Pilates for six months. Whilst I've been going through this intensive Cairo, oh god. Oh, it's been full on, costing us a fortune. But finally, kind of coming out of the sun, I've just been cleared to exercise again. So thank god. And they're just about to open a Pilates gym at the shop.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

So no, as soon as I got clearance after my C section, I was back at Pilates.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

Oh Jesus, I wasn't that early on to it. I only got into it like maybe 18 months to two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Well, I was doing it pre-baby. Yep. And then I got way too big to be even contemplating.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

On a reform of machine.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Yeah. A bit different when like your body weight like balancing, just like I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

Risky on a on a movable plate.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

Yeah. We weren't going that intense.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

I think I did a bit um pelvic floor-wise when I was pregnant, like with a physio. But it it wasn't the same as going with no babies and just.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

No, I just needed it for my mental health. I think the first few times I went, I went to the mum's and bubs classes without Bubs. Because like either my husband was still home from work. Yep. Or my mum and dad took him. And for a while they're just like, Are these babies like real? Like delaying.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

I don't have babies, I'm still coming see your babies.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

And did you just say, No, I have two. No, and yeah, I'm so no, I've got twins, like I just can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

I remember For me, I'm in here because I have the same body as the rest of you, and I just need to feel confident. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

And then like I remember the first day I plucked up the courage to finally take them. I think I got there like 20 minutes early. No, it was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

Oh amazing. Did you just did you just leave them in the pram?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Yeah, because I was on I had capsules at that time. So capsules were on the pram.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

I got there early so I could get the right spot in the studio so that I could have my giant ass pram with you with me. Um, and I was like tactical. I breastfed them just before we left. So I'm just like, hopefully they'll sleep.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

That's when they shit in the car and then you're like fucking.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:47

Yeah, and then I was just like, we're gonna do this. And like good for you. That was like a real it felt like a huge monumental yeah to like finally do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Oh wow, I can get out the house and I can get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

Yeah, I can with both of them like what?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Yeah, have you taken them at other times and it hasn't been as smooth?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Oh yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

But there's also in a mums and bums class, I'm guessing there's other mums doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

And the trainer was always really good. She's like, if there's a crying baby, I will pick it up and I will cuddle your baby while you do your thing. And it was kind of like you can stop and start, like do what you gotta do. Yeah, it was very chilled.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:21

That's amazing. I love that. I yeah, I'm really impressed. It's so good that things like that are coming out now. Yeah, it's just more accessible, so much more accessible. Yeah. Um, finish this sentence. Motherhood is everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

You love it. Yeah, I do. Even though it's hard, I love it. Yeah. Those two little cute, adorable faces that are just yours, and you're just like, I hate those.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

Like isn't it nuts? Like what? Even like we just went away, like I said, and mumma's looking at the kids going, I can't believe you two were like potatoes like yesterday. Like where who are these two lanky big things? Like Libby's a runner bean, like just this tall long-legged. We were playing Twister and we couldn't believe how flexible she was. And we're like, where's the b the tiny baby that was born, seventh percentile, who's now 95th percentile? Just hard to fathom.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

Well, we me and my husband just look and go, how do we have two? Like, we do that so often.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Also, how did you both fit in there?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

Oh so it was just there's a reason they came out earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

We always have this game, like we weren't gonna fit for much longer. I joke that the kids would climb back up there if they could. And the kids love this game where they crawl onto my tummy and they like curl up in a ball and we joke and we're like, get back in there, get back in my tummy, and they get shoved into my belly and they just think it's the funniest thing ever. Um, all right, rapid fire. Gentle parenting or yelling?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

Oh, yelling.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Snacks or proper meals?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

Proper meals.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

You're pretty good with the proper meals? Yeah. I'm probably like if you're eating, that's fine. I'm they're good eaters, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

They'll eat they'll eat their meals. We're good.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

They'll just eat whatever. Yeah. Do you hide your snacks or share?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

I hide them.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

Good girl. Do you shower daily or use dry shampoo? I shower daily. Yeah, I'm the same. That's my that's my window time at the end of the day. Hot shower. If anyone comes in, if Ryan comes in, like, get out. This is my time. Kids in your bed? No. No, never.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

If we have to, but no. If it's really, really gruff. If they're sick, fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

But yeah, okay. Have you had many of those?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

Handful.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

Touch word. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

Um, well, we've already said another baby, you're absolutely not, you're an absolutely not. And what's your favourite swear word?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

Oh fuck. I think that's everyone's.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

Everyone's either said fuck or the see you next Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

See, I don't use the see you next Tuesday because I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

Fair enough. That's the English in you, because I reckon it's a lot, it's a lot more condemned in the UK than it is over here. It's so relaxed in the city. It's so relaxed here.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

I think it's just the British in me going, like, you can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

No, I agree. I think that like over here, it's almost worse to be called mate. Like in some circumstances. Yeah, I'm with you. Um, I do like to give the opportunity for my guest to give a mum shout out to another mum. Who would your loud mum of the week be?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Oh, it would be my friend who's a new mum. I think her her son's probably four or five months old now. Yeah. And she's killing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Oh, good girl. She's doing a great job. Does she have a good birth and like a good smooth transition into motherhood or I think so? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

But I think she's doing a great job. She's got a cute little boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Oh, four or five months old.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Tiny. Tiny baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:17

Feels like such a long time ago, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

It really does.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

And I I feel like when I hold a baby, I go, sorry, I could throw you into a tree. Like you're just a little bit. Oh, then like I feel like I could just you're so used to carrying around these massive lumps, and you go, sorry, how are you so tiny and light? I don't remember this.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

Yeah, and like I'm sometimes trying to carry two of them. Oh my gosh. I've got really can't do it these days.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:35

How do you go with your back?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

I make them walk a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

It's just not an option for you to be carrying all the time. Like they're just both getting to that size where I'm just like, I need you on a sofa so I can don't have to bend up from the ground to get you because yeah. If one wants carrying the other one's walking, it's like I'm sorry, too bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

Mummy only has arms for one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

And if that, sometimes you'll slip in out before we get to the car. Like and you're walking again because I can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

I it yeah, our kids are too heavy now. I can't carry them. Yeah, no. And sometimes they're like, oh, carry you to bed, like they want me to lift them off the couch. And I'm like, my back can't handle that. And you've got a bad back, you shouldn't be doing that. Yeah, 100%. Well, that's why I have a bad back. I think it doesn't have helped. Okay, as we wrap things up, I just want to say that you are doing better than you think, and if you yell today, that's okay, because so did I. Stay loud, mums, and I'll talk to you next week.