Babies, Business & Bullshit

This week I’m joined by Oly & Ash - two mums who had babies, went on maternity leave and realised… yeah, we don’t actually want to go back. 😂

We chat birth stories, shifting priorities, losing (and finding) yourself in motherhood, career guilt, and how becoming mums led them to create something completely new.

Because apparently having a baby doesn’t just change your sleep schedule; it can blow up your entire bloody life plan. 🎙️🍷

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Welcome to the Loud Mum's Club, where we say the quiet part out loud. The good, the bad, and the absolute cooked parts of parenting. And what are we drinking today? Coffee, wine, or tears? Today's a really special episode. I've actually got two guests on. Two mums that have two 17-month-olds who are how many days apart? 18. Oh, that was weird. You guys are so in a shame with each other. Your husbands are cousins. I hope that comes across as non-incestral, not yeah. So the husbands are cousins and you two are best friends. Yes. Two completely different birth stories. And two women whose priorities did a full 180 the second motherhood enter the chat. So Olympia is a mum to Leo, a 17-month-old professional blabberer. After eight years working in an accounting firm where she met her husband, she planned to return after maternity leave until motherhood completely changed the plan. She loved her natural birth so much that she reckoned she'd do it a hundred times over. And yes, she absolutely made her husband try the tens machine first. Ash is a mum to 17-month-old Miller. She found out she was pregnant mid-renovation because apparently growing a human is just not chaotic enough. After nine extra days of cooking, an induction, gel, an epidural, and eventually a cesarean, her birth didn't go the way she'd hoped. Leaving her feeling like the power of choice had been taken away. Before Miller, she was a practice manager, and then motherhood arrived, and just like Olympia, her priorities have completely changed. Two mums, two journeys, and a lot to talk about. So welcome to the Love Mum's Club. I really appreciate you both coming on.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

We both also just agreed that we've all shared our um our locations and who we were with, with different family members because we weren't sure because we're strangers that everything was gonna be safe, and I promise I haven't drunk the wine. So we're good to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

This is our first podcast, and we weren't sure what to expect. So yes, we did share it later.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So we're all just chilling in my living room, um, having a chat. So do either of you have a mum fail of the week?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

A mum fail. Yeah. Well, yes, I do. Oh no, hit me. I cut my daughter's fringe. Oh, I've done that. While the hair was wet. And then it bounces up and you realize you've given a micro fringe. She has a micro fringe. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

And she belongs in Fitzroy. The worst part is, oh yeah, it's a barista. The worst part is my sister-in-law did this and I witnessed it. So she had the finger on the forehead and she cut above the finger, not below. Okay. And I'm watching her and it happened, and I was like, what are you on? That's not the way to do it. I'm not the only one.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

That's exactly what I wanna put my finger. I went above and my husband's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, what have you decided? I fucking cut it.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Oh, no, you're fine, you can swear on this. Absolutely. My question is, did you watch your favourite square word? You're fine. Um, no, I've done that a few times with Libby. And the worst part is also my mother-in-law is a hairdresser. So there's been a few times I've called her in a panic and gone, I needed a cup picture.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

I've seen a mullet and I'm not about it. I want the bowl cut. He doesn't have enough hair yet to get the bowl cut. You have a mullet? I think we've got a mullet and cow. It is a blonde, he's like bleach blonde, as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

To be fair, I don't know who saw Harry has a shaved head because we had mitts last week. So I've This is our third time this year, like in the last two months. Actually, since I started the podcast, because we had it the first week I had the podcast. I remember last week. So I said to Harry, I can either sit here and comb through your hair or I can shave your head. Just shave it. And then Liddy goes, Can you shave my head? And I'm like, absolutely not. And I'm like, but tell me what if you don't fucking pick your hair up at daycare, it's cool. I will be shaving your head. Fucking stick of this shit. Oh yes. Look forward to that. Ollie, did you have a mum fell? Oh one that I can think about. Doesn't have to be this week, just in general.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

Yeah. That's always a good story, coming. I Leo, we on our walks now, he just loves like picking up gum nuts and sticks, and he picked up a lump of dog shit and carried it around. Fuck off. We got I kid you not, we got home and I was like, oh, something smells like shit. He brought a lump of dog shit. At least he doesn't have like a jar, like where he's saying, I know, like white. We're just white dog shit after a few months. Why are we starting off with it?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

We'll give it a heads up as a fellow boy mum. They come home with everything in their pockets. Rocks, dinosaurs, Harry's still. Although Harry's a total klepto maniac and stealing stuff from daycare, like stealing other kids' toys. Comes home with hot wheels. And I'm like, baby, you have hot wheels. I don't have this one though. I'm like, yeah, but you have enough, like, but mum, I don't have this hot wheels. I'm like, yeah, but we have another mass box cars. You are in for a bike. I'm not ready for it.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Dog shit. He's eating a rock today. And I was like, what's he like punching in your mouth? I was like, he wanted to hold a rock. And I was like, I can eat punching for 17 months. I just had to stop him and like four girls walk past them. Have you never had dogs?

unknown 4:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

And you teach them to leave it. You've got to do that with your kids. Yeah. But I'm like, don't fucking touch that!

SPEAKER_04 4:46

I'm not re I'm not ready for this other boy and mum yet.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

I haven't had a mum fail. Oh, have I had a mum fail this week? I mean I feel like I've failed every day, but we haven't had anything, we haven't had anything major that happened this week that's been too bad. That's a win. Um, it is alive, they're alive. But I have to tell you, my girlfriend gave me a permission to this, but Sarah, I was around for lunch the other day, and her little one Claire just walks past with a bottle of talcum powder and I clock it and I look at Sarah and I'm like, you're not gonna do anything. And she's like, nah. Like, what's the worst she can do? And I'm like, turn into Pablo Escobar, like probably not the best idea. And then literally, like, she just goes quiet, and like I'm as soon as my kids are quiet, I'm quiet, it's dangerous. I'm like, why are you not making a noise? And I'm like, just look into the living room. There is fucking it's everywhere, it's all over the lounge room. She's making, she's got like her dolls are covered in it. She looks like she's been in a cocaine factory, like she's covered in it, and as she walks past, she walks past the fan of the fireplace, and I just get a I'm like instantly sneezing, and then she goes to get a bowl, and I'm like, Sarah, come on. Like, you have to do something. Like, I know. She's a type, she's a game. I'll tell you how, like, no, she's a kid doesn't escape. I'll just vacuum it up. And eventually she went in and she like she like cleaned it all up. And I was like, Sarah, I could never have let it escalate to that point. I would have snatched that talcum powder so fucking fast when I saw it. Did you have a fuck around and find out moment this week? I mean, the hard thing is you've got 17-month-olds. Yeah, you had a very different chapter, and I get it. I get that I feel like they're testing us. You're on the verge because you've got they're now moving. They must be climbing and not knowing what they can and can't climb.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

They're pulling drawers. We've I've got lots of stairs in my face.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So are you now learning the are you a fuck around and find out parent? Like, yeah, climb the stairs and see what fucking happens if you fall down. Or are you like a no, the baby gate's going?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Where I think we're still I've got a baby gate. Yeah, I think we're still like they're climbing the stairs, we're like at their mom's. I also feel like because you're first time mums.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

But I sound like a seasoned pro. But second time round with Harry, first child, Livy, I was like, don't fall, don't fall, don't touch anything. Whereas Harry, I'm like, okay, fucking go for it. You'll soon learn.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Yeah, but like I've got okay, one set of stairs which has the gate, and then the second set of stairs, which should have the gate, because they're just holes in the room. Oh, they're like they're um, they're the ones you can like literally fall into your death. Like you're going down I'm a three-level I don't know. My cat has fallen through, and like oh god. So my fuck around find out moment has to be either the stairs or my cat. Yeah, we got her in COVID, and she's a British blue, and she fucking hates us. She I've all only ever had like I've had cats and dogs and whatever. She is the biggest sassy bitch, and so Leo just walks and chases her, walks, and and the amount of times he's been swiped. He's gonna cop a bite. He's he he hasn't coped a scratches, yeah. He's lit like scratches. So it's it's it's a it's a fucking. She'll learn to love him.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

She will she'll you don't like it. Yeah, that can mean she's not getting it.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

She has been around for so long. She still hates us, still hates everyone. It's not just the baby, it's no, it's everyone.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

She's a one-person cat, so like if it's just me by myself, she'll come and sit on me for two minutes and then she'll go away.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

I love cats though. Like every dog.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

They are, but she's like love a pat, friend. All cats are just delicious. On my lap all the time, or like on our now that it's winter on the end of our bed, like which that's what we thought we were getting.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I thought I was getting this loving, cozy. Yeah, my mother-in-law got a ragdoll and it just turned on her. And I thought ragdolls were like really, really nice. It had to get me home because it tacked her. So my god. Yeah, like when we like bit her, scratched her up, ended up in hospital, like fucked up. And you I wouldn't think that with a ragdoll. And I'm not a cat herke. They are they're unpredictable. We had to also bring home two of our dogs because they fucking turned on each other. They got it. I have had a fuck around and find out moment this week. Yeah. We went to a new friend today. We met it swimming, and I I'm always hesitant with new mums and having play dates. My son is a boisterous boy, and I'm like, how's this gonna go down? And how is the mum gonna take me? Are they the same age?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Is their kids the same age?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

They're one year younger. Okay, yeah. I'm like, I'm a lot as a person.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Like, I don't if I don't gel with someone, like they're gonna hate me pretty quick. Like, if you're not on my energy level, I mean don't talk your head off. Like, anyway, me and her go along really well. She's absolutely beautiful. And our sons are two peas in a pod. They were crazy. And they were just like, she's got this massive property, they're driving around there's like electric cars, and I'm like, he's gonna end up in the fucking river. Like at the fall, it's a river or the property. And I'm like, he's just gonna end up in it. And I'm like, I've just gotta let it happen. Yeah, so I'm just gonna let it happen. And I'm like, but please don't crash it. Like, we can't afford to replace that. These guys have got all the gadgets, and I'm like, please don't crash the car, or please don't hurt the child. Please don't end up with a broken bone. This is not how I want this night to end. Um, but otherwise I met them at swimming and then they're like come over or yes, we've seen each other a few times at swimming and we always had a really, really nice chat. Yeah, yeah. And then um, so her daughter was swimming when my daughter was swimming. So then the boys I would always be like, oh Cooper's here, and they'd play with like cars and we bring things to entertain them, and then me and Haley would talk. And then we saw them last week or this week, might have been Wednesday, and she's like, hey, like we should connect on Instagram, and we then followed each other and then we've just been chatting, and she's like, Let's have a play date, let's come over Friday. Yeah, I feel like it's hard making friends as an adult too. It is totally like the kids and stuff, like connect on as well. We've both got kids. So the village verdict, we've we've had a discussion on a few different things, but Google is making us more anxious. And what on earth did our parents do without Google? Because were they looking up in an encyclopedia? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

I think they died with a rash. Trial and error.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

I feel like they just Oh, you're not dying, your rash is mine.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Yeah, no, I literally feel like they you know had their neighbours or they had family, yeah, but they you know what? I feel like they're a lot tougher back then than they're gonna be like, they probably trusted their gut a bit more.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

I when I think about things and I'm getting like I'm googling things or getting anxiety about an old message my mum, she'll be like, just do this or like do that. Like she just didn't even think to Google, like it was just not an option.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

And then you also feel like your mum's got these massive books of knowledge because I always ask my mum for help, and she's a nurse, so that that has helped too. But like I ask my mum a lot.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

But also they've been through it, so they're like they know you come out of the other side. Yeah, but you say that too.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

My mum goes, I can't believe like I don't know what you're talking about. What do you mean? So you weren't like this as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

But you know what? The anxiety like Google gives you too much, Google gives you more anxiety, gives you anxiety because it's like that. I don't know if you've this is an accounting thing, right? If everything's highlighted, nothing's highlighted. So when there's so much information out there, there's no information. Do you know what I mean? Because you're not getting an answer to a specific thing, there's just too much information, so it's like sending you on a spiral. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

It's also hard now, I think you've now got AI with Google. So that's sort of compiling sometimes bullshit. Gemini. And it's almost half the time telling you that your child's dying. So it's like oh my child has cancer. Okay. Yes. And then you've also got people sponsored at the top who are paying to play. And how do you then navigate what's a legitimate business and what someone's not backed up by science or whatever? And I'm a very like putting it out there, we're pro-vaccination, we're pro-everything, like we're very I'm all about alternative medicines, but I'm also about modern medicine, following doctor's advice when it's relevant. Yeah. Um, but like it is really hard to find a defining answer with Google, 100%. But what's the most ridiculous thing you've Googled and then you've been convinced that your child has?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Oh my god, if you looked at my chat GTP history, like I'm embarrassed.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

I'm so concerned. I I'm like, fucking go for it. Like, hack me. No, I'm not concerned.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

Like, I, you know, there's like look, the laziness levels though, it's like write a happy birthday message for this, or you know, when you're not going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Some like we gave her a salt and vinegar chip for the first time, and her lip her lip went a bit white. And Ollie's like, It's like send a picture to chat. I took it very nice, like, what's wrong with my daughter's lip? It's white, oh my god, I have lip cancer. And it was just literally like, it's probably irritation from the vinegar. It's like her face is about to melt off.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

But it's shit like that that I'm just like, Yeah, I I and my husband, like, he's just Oh, the weirdest thing.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Yeah, sending a picture of my baby's poo. Oh. That's been a weird thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Why does my why does her poo look like this? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

They digest it, they digest everything so so so quickly that yeah, like I think it was one time blueberries.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Like, she'd eaten way too many blueberries and her poo was like black. And I was like, oh my god, her poo's like dude.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Yeah, he's gonna be like I had. Do you know Thunderbirds? No, it's an English thing, it's like a kid's puppet TV show about the kind of like early-on superheroes, and they all have like different types of space things. Yeah, it kind of doesn't work if you don't know the reference, but yeah, there was the Thunderbird 2 was the biggest like spaceship rocket thing, right? It was a bright green thing, and my brother had a Thunderbird cake, and I ate the whole ice thing of the green thing. And like a day later, my shit was like Hulk green. I was screaming to my mum, like, my poo is green! And my mum's like, Katie, it's a food diet. Like you had a whole Thunderbird. You just forget. You forget.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

But definitely like, yeah, like the sending, like the poof thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

For me it was the rashes, like we're saying the rash, the fucking I was always seeing. That's it, meninage cockle. You gotta lose your limbs. I was like dead set. I was like, that's well.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

That's why, like, I think when we were talking about before when he had the hand foot mouth, yeah, and they wouldn't release us. I think they were just they had to like do every precaution because of the menu cockle.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

It was like so with with our kids getting hand foot and mouth, they had it completely separate, like like two years apart. Libby got it first and she had it all over a crotch. So I opened up the nappy and there was just blisters everywhere. And I was like, what the hell is that? I kept thinking it's herpes, I'm not like what is this? I'd never seen it before. Um, kept her home from daycare, and I just thought she had some sort of like virus, but it's like slap cheek, like she had really bright red toes.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

So you said slap cheek with us.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

And then she got a couple of marks, but they weren't blisters. And then she ended up getting blisters under her toenails and fingernails because all of her fingernails and toenails were under. Yeah. But then my son woke up, woke up, and just had it all. And like we were supposed to get Disney on ice, and I'm like, I can't fucking take that. You look disgusting. Just like past the point of blister, but just the healing. I'm like, that's gonna scar. Yeah, it's gonna have this big red, like holding it.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

It can take ten days and then it can like be like seven days. What's and after that, while it's still contagious?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

I was also scared because you can get it as an adult. Yeah, so I was terrified.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

And I think an adult, like even worse.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah, it's it was called something else. It's like you know how you get chicken boxes and adult shingles. Yeah, it's like that sort of a feel.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Um scary.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Did you just hear a creepy tank? Yeah, I think a child might be away. We'll still find out. Um, but yeah, no, I actually have a class of one. Um, what's the weirdest parenting question you've Googled?

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Oh god, you're really hitting us with those ones. Yeah, I know. And these are all new ones. So many. So many though.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

I had to practice.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

No, we can get these ones in this. No, because you only just told me your village bird dick.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Um, what's the weirdest question that we've googled? For me, I thought like as a new time mum, I was Googling a lot of like things I thought were stressful at the time. Like, what temperature does the bath need to be? Oh shit. Like, how can you not see in the movies like how they do like the the bottles on the arm? And I'm like, I don't know if I have no sensitivity.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

I couldn't feel the bottle because when I don't know if it's when I used to go to my mum's house, I would take the little bath thermometer with me. Oh I'm not that mum, I didn't have one. I was like, eh, it feels alright. I have one! And my mum would be like, just put your elbow in. And I'm like, But how do you know? Even now, the kids come out like bright red.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

No, I think but then I'm like you're old enough to tell me.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

I know. That's alright, we can't worry about it. We can come back. Well, you just said your chat GPT history would be embarrassing. So, what do you think in there would make someone laugh? Oh my god, should I actually get this up? Because is it that reason?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Oh, it's I actually think I'm logged into it. Mine's so boring.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Mine's like write me an ad for this, write me a blog for this.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

No, so my daughter just went through, it was actually a few months ago now, where she she got sick and then she had a bit of diarrhea.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

Baby tantrum tips.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Sure. She had a bit of diarrhea, and then it was like her bow movements were like quite runny for how much did you not think you'd worry about poos as a mum?

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I didn't, that was not on my radar. Like, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

I was talking about things that like you're not prepared for.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Even now, like I'm constantly like, have you pooed today? Yes. How did you poo? Was it a good poo? Yeah. Like, are you how's your toppy feeling? Like, yeah. And I've got four and a five-year-old, I'm not even looking, and this is actually even harder because I'm not seeing nappies. So it gives me more anxiety because I don't get to do it. Do you go and look in the toilet bowl? No, but then listen, I listen to here, like if I've had a squirt, because my husband's got the worst IBS. So I'm waiting to figure out if like my kids would be allergic to something. Yeah. Like Harry, I can hear him do him an absolute spray, and I'm like, oh honey, you got a sore tummy. And he hasn't told me. Yeah. So I'm like, he's like, yeah, it's a bit sore. Oh, I suppose he got IBS as well. No.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Okay, wait, let me just log into my chat because. But yeah, so she her bow like she usually does one poo a day, maybe two, depending on. But she was doing like five or six poo's a day. Oh, yeah. And I was like, oh, you're sick. I was like, there is something going on with your gut. Like it was just going straight through her. But it was like this for like two or three weeks. And I'm like, she's allergic to something, like something. And so I was like messaging my maternal health person, and she was just like, no, I think she just got a sensitive gut from she's obviously had a bug, like she she'll be all good. But I just remember I was chatting photos of her poo again, being like, it's not solid, like why is it still runny? Like is it mucusy, like, yes, like just constantly and like she's shitting out her stomach lining? Like, I need to know because I'm actually and like it's this colour one day, it's this colour next day. Yeah, anyway, so it was just a constant battle with me thinking uh when is this going back to?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

I just think like if some hacker went into my chat GPT, it'd be so boring. Like, no, I'm not going in there. How do I log into my bank account with these details? Do you know what? Yes, child start.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

But like we're ours, it's just like I can't even log into it.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

But anyway, have you ever Googled something or asked something and then panicked because of the answer? But your child was absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

100%. Like a lot of the answers are like, uh, you should you should get her checked at the GP straight away. And so I'm like calling, I'm like, okay, got a book and appointment.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Do you also find it annoying that at the moment, like we I kind of got like about five GP clinics on rotation because you can't always just get in to work. And I don't like going into a walk-in. I do like there to be somewhere where we've sort of semi-settled.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

We've literally talked about this because I remember me growing up, we had our doctor, yeah, Dr. Jones. I saw my doctor, yep. My family went to him, we saw him, and that's I want that for your child. For my child. We want a family doctor.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

And the hard thing is, I've got a doctor that I loved when I was pregnant, but it takes two, three weeks to get into her. And I'm calling the doctor these days, I need antibiotics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I need something now. I don't I I can book in for two, three weeks to talk about a concern I might have about like developmental, but like most of the time I'm calling because I need steroids or I need something that day. But we've got onto hot doc, which is you pay out of pocket. So when you're up at night and the kids have creep or something, we just pay out of pocket, I think it's $70. Do a video console and they'll send you a script over the phone. Okay. I'm like, I'd actually more convenient. We pay for a semi-private doctor anywhere where we go, so it's not bulk build. So I'm paying $100 anyway. So I'm like, well, I might as well just pay the $70 and get the answer within the next six years. And being the comfort of your home to have a drag your kids. Yeah, 100%. Um, the only place is where this like rashes and I'm having to show a private path, it does make me a bit uncomfortable because I'm video calling some doctor. And you don't know who they are. Well, you would just hope that those safe areas.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Surely though, though, like a place like hot dog, like it's obviously an official website. Like we're saying kids to the code. I'm not FaceTiming someone on Facebook messenger.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

No, no, you think that they're professional daycare.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

We haven't sent our kids to daycare yet because we're like, Oh, yeah, okay. So Ollie and I have have our anxiety has increased since we've had kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

But I also think I there's different types of mums and there's different family units and like financial responsibilities too. We could not afford for me not to be working. Yeah. And I think if you had the luxury of not having to work, fantastic. Yeah. But I also cannot afford mentally for me not to be working. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Well that's why that's where pams come. PAM was built. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Because the the wheels were turning and we were like, we want to be working, but we also want to be at home with us.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

And be flexible. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why I started my business because I was like, I don't want to be in an office nine to five. I still need to have that availability. Yeah. It's it's fucked up.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah, it is fucked.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

We're going on a tangent, aren't we? Oh, it's fine. It's fine. We could talk about it. Let's go on to the village bird deck because we just talked about the heaps. Yeah. Um, but let's go to why you're here. Yes. So you guys have we've mentioned it a few times now because it's come up organically, but you started Pam, which is a parental admin manager.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

We loved the name Pam. It was well, it was actually like a temporary name.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yes, it was temporary at the start. We had it going and we were like, we were like, oh, let's just call it Pam for now. And we'll think about what the name is. Was it always gonna be parental admin manager? No. Funny story, my mum actually kind of gave us the idea. What were we calling it before that? I've got no idea. My life fucking sucks and I need help. It was like I don't know, it wasn't parental admin manager, it was something else. And then my mum was just like, what about parental admin manager?

SPEAKER_02 22:25

And we were like, perfect, because we want to target parents, not just mums, but it's great until five years' time when you're millionaires with this app, and mum goes, I own that. That's my collectible absolute mum. Get it to sign an IPA now.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

You do not own this app.

unknown 22:45

No.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Um get it to sign an MDA.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

No, literally.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I'm going on a tangent again, right?

SPEAKER_04 22:51

Sorry, you're fine. Right, so we're talking about where how where Pam was built for.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Okay, so let me let's structure this so you answer a question. Yeah. Otherwise, you will just feed off each other and have a chat. So for everyone listening who has no idea what parental admin manager, Pam, actually is, what have you created?

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Okay, so Pam essentially was built to reduce the mental load of parents. So there was an app for sleep, there was an app for feeding, and there was an app for like milestones.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah, I think I had all of those.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

But there wasn't an app for anything else, right? So Pam was born with the idea to have one app to sort of incorporate everything. So we essentially built Pam to be that personal assistant that remembers everything for parents. So things like immunisations, registrations, you know, all those things you have in your notes folder when you go to appointments, all the things you need to remember.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

One place.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

One place. Literally one place. And also we wanted something that like grows with the child. So it's not something just for a newborn, it's not something for like a three-year-old. It's like something that literally can grow with a parent at each stage.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, awesome.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

And it's not we're not telling parents how to parent. We just want to help parents manage the admin essentially. The headspace, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah, so we found like when we were new mums that this is something that we needed. Like we were constantly messaging each other the day and night, you know, asking questions, trying to figure out where things were, what things were needed. And so eventually we got to the point where we were like we we need to create something. Like we need There's nothing out there. There's nothing out there. Like, yes, as Ollie said, like there's all the apps for the tracking and everything like that. But there's to do list, to do lists, there's calendars.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

But is there something so if you have an app like that, right? You have to physically go in and put everything in that you need to remember.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

So, how does it work with your app?

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Yeah, one of the key features with PAM, so we've got a smart checklist, right, that pre-populates all the important milestones, all like tasks.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Task based on your baby date of birth. So it goes, cool, your next immunisation is at two months, four months, six months, it's in the calendar, and then sends you a reminder.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah. It also tells you what immunisations are due at what point of their life.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Names of immunisation.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

So it gives you the names and yeah, names of immunization and also like maternal health appointment visits.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Does it give you information on those?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

We've got so in our um local there's another tab called local info. Yeah. Um, in that tab, there's resources and articles about all things, but one of them being immunizations. Um so you can go into that tab, you can search what immunisation for but I mean this is already in the pre-populated calendar as well.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

But um there's if you want like more in more in-depth information on each of the immunisations. So what it does is so in the local info folder, it links you to the services Australia certainly.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yeah, amazing. Yeah, because I I think the hard thing is I don't know how you guys found it, but like as a first-time mum, when you're going in and you're being told, cool, yeah, you're about to have two needles, one on each arm or one in each leg, plus some sort of oral thing, and and you're in such a blur of like, okay, so what is all this? What is each thing doing what's each thing for? And I don't know what half his names mean, and what are all the side effects? And they're like, Yep, stay here for 10 minutes, you might get a fever. And I'm like, okay, so what point what point is a fever needing to go to hospital? Yeah, what point do I need to get extra help here in the case? So that's an article that we have in the. Yeah, really important.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

Yeah, in the way of the it is all general information.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

It comes back to the Google stuff though. Yeah, to Google that, you're then copying a hundred different articles, whereas it would be it's great to have a sole place just to get and like obviously we're not professionals, yeah, and we have stated that, we've got disclaimers and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

But you're linking it to the blog.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

But we're linking it to professionals.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

You writing blogs, not you writing up. So what we're doing is we're pretty much summarising everything that you need to know based on a certain topic. So immunisations. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Fever in children, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Yeah, and then it links you to Yeah, ration, it links you to where you need to go, and then that's where like you can obviously get all the professional information that you need from like re a reputable source. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

So was there something, I mean, after a conversation tonight, I know that you guys are two peas in the pod, you're practically sisters. Yeah. But was there something happening in your own lives specifically that you both just went to each other, fuck someone ether shit? Like this is too hard.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Well, firstly, we were like fresh post-partum together. Like we obviously I had Miller first, but we were in the I wouldn't say the trenches, because like we we did really love. If you were in the baby born stairs, we were in the bubble, we were in the bubble, but we were also going through it together, and like there were hard times, and there were times where yes, we were we were up messaging each other at 2am, going through it all together.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Um, but because nothing literally nothing prepares you. Excuse me. Nothing prepares you for being a mum until you become a mum. Like you can.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

You sent me a voice note about reading every book, reading all the podcasts, but nothing. No, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

You can you can literally you're gonna see this again? Sorry. Is that the wine?

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Yeah, oh my god, the poor thing. Yeah, but I like wine tablets and things and things you can I don't think that's the allergy thing, that's a hangover thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 28:14

I I think it's a preservative thing, preservative thing, actually, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

There's something in it.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I'm also like allergic to like tomato ketchup on like a bunch of things. Oh my god. Preservatives. Yeah, um, it's it is it's the preservative. So apologies to listeners. I'm sneezing and high fevering away. Um, okay, so it was just you guys realizing like there's a lot for us to keep track.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, we felt very overwhelmed. Like we were like we had 10 apps like for different things.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I think like if you were breastfeeding and you're trying to track your breastfeeding, yeah, and you're trying to do like some sort of sleep schedule, it is, it is it is so I think I just got to the point where I just had it in my notes because I was like, when was the last time I first nappies? How many nappies have we had today?

SPEAKER_04 28:55

Yeah, the tracking, the tracking of everything and then that prediction.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

It's definitely a first-time mum thing, though.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

Yeah, yeah. 100% because you just don't know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

There's no fucking manual.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

And you feel like you do have to track everything. There's so much out there where it's saying like you need to track your baby sleeping you need to track your baby sleeping.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Because that because I felt like I need to track it in case something goes wrong. Yeah. So when I need to go to the hospital and they go, When was the last minute now? That was my anxiety about being a mum.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

But also being like a type A person, also coming from this corporate job where everything's systemised. Systemized, I r like I think my systems, the processes of systems, processes, structure, expression, literally. Like, can I do an asylum of my baby? What does this mean? And it's the one thing that I thought I would go into so prepared, but you can never prepare for a baby.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

And it's also a lot of stuff that I didn't think I'd have to, it wasn't on my radar. And I think when you're pregnant, there's such a huge build-up to birth. Yeah. A huge build-up. Like everyone's like, oh, and then start telling you fucked up birth stories and like scare the shit out of you, and you're just like, there's this huge thing about you're pregnant, you have to birth a baby. No one then prepared me for what happens once the baby's here. Literally. And then I had two cesareans with my first, I was in the hospital for like three or four days. And then I'm sent home with this tiny little potato who was 2.4 kilos. She wasn't marked as a 2.495. She wasn't marked with the premier. I look back and she looks like an alien. I'm like, how was I allowed to do this all looking like that? And he's drawn to it. I'm like, she yeah, I'm there. I've got photos of me breastfeeding, like naked in her nursery with the sun on me if you let's not forget, they send you home with a form where they're like, fill this out, you need to register your baby. I forgot to do that. Also, I did it twice for Harry in my postpartum. We have two birth certificates for Harry. I I'm assuming that's still one person. Like it's not like a social security number. So I don't I'm hoping I haven't created two people within the government.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

You never know. Well, that's what I'm saying. Also, why we created ten tubes because you get sent home with these forms and it's like, you're that's not your focus. Your focus is on my nipples hurt.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I can take a shit, which I haven't shit yet after having.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yeah. You know what? I actually got the heads up from a makeup artist when I went to Mecca and she told, she gave me a rundown. I literally told her I was pregnant and I hadn't told a lot of and she's like one of the things is laxatives because you are so scared to shit.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

You had a natural birth, didn't you? Yeah. Whereas Ash had a cesarean. Yes, yeah, don't have to ask, just pull. Um so with with the natural birth, I understand because it's so much more traumatized. I wore natural. But with a cesarean, you're not allowed to use the stomach muscles. Yeah. So I'm like, how do I shit without pushing? So I was literally, I was like, yeah I had one degree 10.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

I had stitches and like you still Well, that made me clinch. But maybe go, whoo!

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Tell you what, was a really beautiful moment between me and Ryan. First of all, they're like, yeah, we're gonna get you out of bed and you need to have a shower. And this is like the morning after I've had Olivia. So I had Olivia at nine o'clock at night. It's like nine, ten o'clock in the morning. Ryan's come back because he wasn't allowed to stay because of COVID. And they're like, right, your husband's gonna hold you on one side and the midwife's on the other side, and she's like, you're just gonna plant your feet and you're gonna stand up, but don't use stomach muscles on it. Yeah, no worries, got it.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Plant my feet, automatically use my stomach muscles, and I was like, Oh fucking fucking top. I was like, don't fucking touch me!

SPEAKER_02 32:16

And she's like, Okay, I think I'm gonna give you some more pain medication. And I'm looking at Ryan, I'm like, what the fuck was that? And I just felt like I torn myself open. And then I'm going, um, I'm in a hospital bed. So I just grabbed the remote and just went and just stood it up, and then I just stood up off the bed, and I was like, why the fuck didn't she just ask me to do that? Everyone I've met who's pregnant, I'm like, idiotarian, do this! Put your bed all the way and just roll off. Because I was like, that woman's a fucking psychopath.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

How could you expect me to stand up and not use my stomach muscles? Honestly, though, like it's Russian Oulette with your bloody midwives like that. It is. Thankfully, we were both at St. Vincent's. Thankfully, like 90% of the midwives.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Was there something about you had we had the same obedient?

SPEAKER_04 32:58

We had the same sister wasn't my midwife. Oh no, sorry, I had my sister at the birth, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Yeah, okay, because I was listening to stories, and I'm like, your sister was at the birth, but your sister was at the middle. My sister is a midwife who was also at my birth.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

That's where I was getting confused.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

I had my mum, my husband, and my sister.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I had my mum, my husband, and my sister too. Okay. But yeah, so Alicia, she's a midwife, and um she was at my birth with me.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Um we had both babies in COVID. So I could have no one except Ryan. At one point with Livy, because it was the first, they were like, There'll be no point, you can't have any support partners with you alone. No, I think. And I actually ended up writing to the local MP and I was like, I need you, I need you to advocate here because I can't have my first baby alone. Like I was like, how traumatic would that be for a mother? Oh my gosh. So I didn't even clock this until recently. All of my fresh newborn photos, like fresh out of Caesarea, I have a mask on. Yeah. That's fast. I hadn't even processed that until a girlfriend pointed it out who had a baby at the same time, and she goes, Yeah, it's crazy. All my baby photos. I'm like, no, no, I didn't have a mask on. I fucking did. No, that's not true. Didn't he even clock it? So sad to think, like, I mean, obviously she's a newborn baby, but like Livby and Harry are both looking up at me.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

With a mask on.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Like, who is this person? Yeah. But back to the the coming out of the cesarean, and then I had my first shower, and then it was a real connection moment between me and Ryan. I'm realising you've picked the right person. I know you're in the house. Honestly, honestly. He put pads in my knickers, oh my god, me and drying me, like, you know what? I'm sure you won't say it like Caesarea. I'm scared to touch my hair because I'm scared of my arms gap a certain point and it's gonna rip myself open.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

And I was like, Mmm, okay, okay. Even like I th I had oxytocin like quite a hectic like because I he they broke my waters. He broke my waters and my OB broke my waters and then got on oxygen. I'm like hey, like another hand and broke my waters.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

I told you nothing wine, no filter now. I'm sorry, I'm having glasses. I don't even take the pin. My OV. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

My OV, break my waters, and then I got on the oxy straight away, and then I had an epidural, and so I gave both at 11.53, and I think a couple hours later, they actually left us in the room with just me, Cal and Leo with just us for a little bit. Oh amazing. Which was really nice, but then they're like, Do you want to have a shower? And I was like, Fucking, I want a shower. I couldn't even stand. I felt like I was coming off a three-day bender. I was like six fifths up your hoo-ha. Honestly, and then Leo, I was in the shower, and I was like, This is it was cooked having that shower afterwards. But Cal stepped up. Even I didn't get emotional from the birth because I think I was just like so. I was on so much drugs. No, because I feel like I thought I should feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I think that's also what's the word? When people say that you should feel a certain way. Well, I just think it's from the movies. I think it's just how you'd be conditioned to feel the movie.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Well, it's also like when the you break your water your water break. Even though Mama's done a, yeah, you know, you think, but I I just thought I think I should have felt a certain way. And I was like, so I was I I I looked at my baby and I was like, Are you my baby? I was just it doesn't feel real. It's surreal, yeah. So with Nebby.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

We should do birth stories. One of my girlfriends went to me today and said, You need to tell more birth stories because she's like, ah fucking. We should do like a segment. We should, but what are things that you think mums are spending hours doing that they probably don't realize they could just use pan for?

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Oh my god, where do we start? Remembering appointments. I feel like that was one of the main things for us was remembering when like the next vaccination needed to be. Um even like maternal health appointments and stuff like that as well.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

Baby book. So I compiled like every milestone and memory would be a different note in my notes, in my phone. And so wait till they start talking, that's fucking hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

I've got a luminate book that I just start putting in.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

Honestly, so that was one thing that clocked with me. I was like, and I've got 30,000 photos in my phone, I kid you not. So I was like, why is this not digitized? Like, we need to digitize this. So that was like one thing that I was pretty adamant with Pam. I said we need to digitize this baby book. So the baby book, it compiles every single like growth measurement that you put in, all your photos. We've got voice memos, so like you can you record your babies and you can send it, you can share them.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah, all that.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

And so another so the digitize the baby book is one thing that is when I with Leo I wished was available that we had. Um there might be some out there, but I it wasn't something that I like thought about or that was on my radar.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Not in one place, yet again, it's another app. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

And so, and also another thing with Pam is we've got a voice action feature. So I go, hey Pam, Leo picked up a gum nut.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

It was actually shit.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Yeah, you know, record this is a funny memory, and it it fully like records it, puts a date in, puts a time in, and adds it to your memory. So then that gets compiled into it's really.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

And what annoys me is this book that I've got is in my key bowl, is that I don't always have it with me. Yeah. So like I have to then remember what they've sent. So it'd be great to have it.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

So to have it digitised, you can send it to family friends, you can have an electronic version, you can print it out.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Also, I just think of like 18th and 21st birthdays. Yeah. Like how great to have all those memories. Yeah. Because you just it's so blurred.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Speaking of books though, as well, yeah. Another major reason that we did this was we would always forget to take the green book or the blue book or whatever staying, the my health and learning book. I've lost one of my two. Yeah. And like my maternal health nurse or or the nurse would always send me home with notes to put into the book. Whereas I we just felt like if we had that on our phones. Like, why is it not digitized? Why are we looking at the bigger?

SPEAKER_02 38:51

So have you reached out to them and they actually have provided you the resources that you get given at each stage?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

We haven't. We've done our own research and we have I mean, we have based it off the green book. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Um in terms of what immunisations you need to get when and what MCH appointments you need to do when.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

But we've done our own research and we've looked in for each state. So it's so when you're on board, you you put in your baby's state of birth, but you also put in a state that you're from.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

So does it actually differ that much? State to state.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Uh like a little bit. Yeah. Like it's not major, but it is definitely.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

You're gonna be sent to different resources if you're state-to-state, I suppose, aren't you? Because it's different for Victorian government.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

So for for for example, with the resources, um, if there's a link for like registering your birth, there's a link for Victoria, there's a link for South Australia for New South Wales. So there's a link for each like we're we're targeting Australia right now. So what do you say to mums who think I should be able to manage all this?

SPEAKER_04 39:50

Don't. You don't and why?

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Why do you think that you have to manage it all?

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Why I think the hard thing is that it's the mum that's on maternity leave.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah. And I think this is also like a structure of how we do Matt Libre's. We were talking, we were talking about this today. Yes, there is that pressure, the girl and the baby.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

The pressure, the guilt. And the thing is, yes, you could be capable of doing everything, but you don't need to do it all. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? You of course, it's not a failure to ask for help. It's not a failure to have resources available that can help you manage your time better or focus on why do you need it?

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Why do you need to use a tool that's gonna assist you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

The thing is, immunisations are important, yeah, but remembering them is not. So, like, why you don't why do you need to it's it, why do you've got so much other things to remember by keeping a a baby or human alive? Why do you need to remember that appointment?

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Let Pam do that for you. Yeah, but it's just I literally got a letter in the mail today that said about immunisation.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

Yeah, I got I got a uh a flu vaccination.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

I was like, Yeah, I was like showing. There's like a flu vaccine. I'm like, oh fuck on. That's all it is. Yeah. First of all, we did get a fucking flu vaccination about two months ago, so you're fucking wrong. Yeah, and update your record.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Like, I don't know why that led to so long to come for me. We have a feature in the app. Can you share it with your partner? Yes, you can. Game changer. You can you can share it with your partner.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

So, work-wise, at the moment we're having this conversation of I work for myself. So if the kids are sick, yeah, I don't get paid. Yeah. If they're sick and he takes a day off, guess what? He gets paid. I'll pay it still comes in. Yeah. So I'm like, you're fucking on. If the kids are sick, you're on it, mate. Yeah. And like, it that's amazing. To be able to share that. And I'm not talking about scheduled appointments. This is the odd one of like, we need antibiotics. Yeah. Someone's got an ear infection, someone's got a chest infection. To be able to share that.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

So we have a family hub. Amazing. And that's got a kids info, right? So it So dad actually knows their birthday. Yes! Knows their blood type. What's their Medicare number? What number are they on the what number are they on the Medicare card? Yes, yes, yes. What okay, we're taking them to swimming. Where are they going to do? What allergies do they have? What are their allergens? What organizations have they already had? What are they up to if they can ask the question? That's brilliant. We're taking them to swimming, or we're taking the daycare, what's the daycare teacher name?

SPEAKER_02 42:10

What's a really good one? What's the daycare door code?

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yes, that's because Ryan can text me all the time and be like, sorry, what's the code? Contacts. We've got a contact section. Yeah. You can have the name of the daycare teachers, you can have doctor's information, everything.

SPEAKER_04 42:24

Friends, like you know, they go into that person's house for a play date.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

This is the mum's name. This is the dad's name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

You can share it with your grandparents as well. So if they they can have access to the app, like yeah, it's just brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yeah. You guys we're glad you like it. That's insane. Yeah. We've been working very hard. Fuck would have loved this five years ago. Yeah, I know. That's this is how we feel. Uh we've been playing with the app for the last however long.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

And we are perfectionists, so we But I think that and I know you don't like the words of like you're in the trenches, but you are in the pits of all those appointments. Whereas we're not at that, like like you said, it's great that it grows with the kids because we're not at the point of yeah, we're now we're done with our immunisations, which is crazy. Yeah, I didn't think that was a thing. No, we're done. Like we have no more immunisations, but it's the flu shots, yeah. And it's the um like when it gets to school age, parent teach parent teach interviews. We have that in there. Yeah, especially. We can add we can add reports. Like we have fucking swimming twice a week, we have um AFL, we've got Boskick. Like yeah, I just that's in there. And the nice thing is if we can share it with grandparents so they know when Foskick's on or they know when swimming's on. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

You've got education profiles, so you can literally school staff, term dates, admin task, reports.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

If someone's listening right now and it's drowning in forms, yeah, appointments, emails, bookings, general bullshit, where do they find you?

SPEAKER_01 43:45

They can find us through our socials. So at parental admin manager. They can sign up. They can sign up to our pre signer. Um we are in the user testing stage right now, but we do have a website that has like a lot of resources on it, right? Now there's blogs for more mums to help with the user testing.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Yeah, we would if anyone wants to help with user testing, we're open to we're at our second round at the moment, but yeah, we'd definitely be keen to we're gonna do another and say that they're say that they're from Zum Club, yay!

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Definitely what would you say to a mum listening who feels like she is drowning right now that she's got this first and it will pass, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

We felt like we were stuck in all the stages for what felt like it was never gonna end, but it really does, and if you can like lean on people around you and like have some support around you, it really helps.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

And we did talk about earlier that village thing like it has changed so much in the last sort of couple of generations of what a village looks like 100%. And I think yes, you two are incredible that you have each other and you have this incredible friendship before babies, after babies, you obviously lean on each other a lot. Yeah, and some mums just don't have that.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

We we know how lucky we are, like we don't take it for granted that we've got each other, and like what are you gonna do if your kids don't get on? Oh well. Remedy Miller Miller fucking bullies Leo. Oh no! Like, she is a full-on bully.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Like, she will like hit him and one of my best friends' daughter went through this choking stage and she would pin her kid. She no, I'm not fucking kidding. Stacey, please forgive me. She her daughter, Charlie, would pin up kids against the wall. Oh my god. She got pulled into daycare and they were like, um, is there something you need to tell us? Like, what's going on? She goes, I fucking swear to god, nothing's going on. And me and Rhina laughing, like, if anyone's pitting anyone, it's her pinning her husband against the wall. Like, that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

But like if Leo, like if they're playing with the same toy or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Or she comes in her space, she's like, Yeah, like the thing is they can't communicate. Yeah, like that changes when they learn how to actually talk, yeah, you're gonna go through, if you haven't already, the biting stage. Oh, they will just get frustrated and they'll just bite each other. No, I'm telling you, we don't have that yet.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

We're waiting for them to just hug each other.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Like that's how they're actually, you know what?

SPEAKER_04 46:09

You're at each you're eight years away from that. Like they're like they they need to warm up to each other, but when they do, they'll follow each other around. They're pretty cute. Like, we went to Queensland for a week and um, oh, they were actually like so cute. They did playstairs and do you know what?

SPEAKER_01 46:24

They're better with our husbands than they are with us. Like our husbands will be like, oh my god, they're playing together.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

Like Ash and I go out for a lunch or whatever, and they're like, No, they're fine, they played together. And then if we're there, no, are you so I'm at the stage of like with my parenting, I want to get away a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Like so when I want to catch on my friends, I don't want their kids there. Yeah. I don't want my kids there. If I'm friends with you, I'm not friends with your fucking kids. And I want us to be best mates, right? No, no, seriously. Um we went through that era of like forcing our kids together and like they're gonna be best friends or they're gonna get married or whatever, and it just like obviously never worked. But now I'm at the age we're like age with the kids, where I want to catch up with my friends because I want to see you, like you're my people.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Do you know what we see each other almost every day? Every day.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

How are you going with that? Are you doing it with children? Because what I find when it's a good thing. We have a bit of a I can't have a balance fucking conversation when my children are.

SPEAKER_04 47:15

No, because we've got we've also got a lot of like people on call like babysitters well.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

So we've got our family, we've got our babysitting for each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if we want to do like a Pilates class or something, we'll drop kids off at each other's houses.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

Are you about to tell me that you and your husband do a Pilates class together?

SPEAKER_01 47:33

No, I do not do Pilates with my husband.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

I do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

We used to before we had a baby, but no, I do Pilates myself. And look, I actually haven't dropped over, I haven't done Pilates in a while. Yeah, well core class is now opened at Hampton, so no, so we we're like, let's once a week drop, I'll go do a class near hers, drop Miller there, and she does a class near mine, so she'll drop there with ours. Yeah. And look, we do we hang out with kids a lot more than we do alone. Yeah, but we do make the time where we will do, especially now that we have Pam, like time alone.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Yeah, you need to go to focus and do that sort of business. Are you are they at that age where you can just honk them in a play room and they'll play, or do you have to be present?

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yes and no, like they will.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Once you left the room, yeah, they're okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Oh, they're not.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Like there's still a bit of separation anxiety, like, or when they see you, they'll get clingy, but then as soon as like Ash or me will leave, they're good. They're good. Wouldn't fine to have them.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Are they parallel playing? Yeah, yeah. They just play near each other.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They kind of like get a bit interested in each other, and like the Tony box, the Tony Box they are like obsessed with fighting over who just obsessed.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Like, one will put one toy on, and then that one comes off, and the other one, and they're like, No, we want that one. Yeah, I want Elsa, I want my toy.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Yeah, yeah. We had a toy kitchen at one point, and we were like, cool, the toys are just like parallel playing next to each other until like frying pans were getting like wiped across heads, and like Livy was like, I want to play like really hard, really hard, like just different chapters, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we're we're 13 months apart. We've got like one that's slightly behind, yeah, or ahead. Yeah, yeah. What's something people don't talk about enough in motherhood?

SPEAKER_04 49:18

Um, look, to be honest, I think people don't talk about okay, pregnancy and birth like positive stories. I know that sounds really weird.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Everyone tells you they're trauma, but everyone tells you they're trauma.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

So I feel like throughout my pregnancy and when I gave birth and everything, I was just expecting it to be bad. It to be really bad and to like I was, and I was like thinking I was gonna go into it. Like, I, you know, if you've had a bit of anxiety, I was like, I'm gonna have like yeah, I had you know a bit of postnatal and a bit of intrusive thoughts and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Well you had with with breastfeeding, like that was very hard.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

Yeah, yeah, it took me a long time for my meal to come through and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

But the intrusive thoughts, I don't think that's a singular thing. I think I was having things of like, what happens if I just dropped the baby downstairs?

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Oh no, no, no, no, intrusive thoughts is a thing. Like where I'm like standing on a balcony and I'm like, what would happen? What would happen?

SPEAKER_04 50:15

Because like I think people just rely so much on the negative side of things that you feel like you need to have a negative or a bad experience to contribute. But if you have a positive one, it's like you're boasting, but it's like I'm not boasting, but I generally had a good experience.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Like, is that people are hesitant to share the good experiences because they're worried so polarized about like I had a fucking thing. For sure, whatever. I'm not with you. What was your this made-me-feel human thing again?

SPEAKER_01 50:42

We we yes, we have spoken about this. It was so we went out for lunch.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

I can't remember dressing up, dressing up child-free, having a wine, having a nice long lunch.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Yeah, finish the sentence. Motherhood is beautiful, chaotic, the best thing ever, but also the hardest thing ever. Yeah. What did you think, Ollie?

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Say, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

Yeah. We're very interested in the city.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah, yeah. Um, all right, rapid fire question. Snacks or proper meals?

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Oh, I want proper meals with snacks.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

We're proper meals, although and snacks, like Miller eats so much. They both of us pick. Where the fuck does it go? I don't know, because the amount of shit that comes out of my kids'.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

Yeah, but then you snack, and then I'm like, oh, you're not gonna fucking eat your food. And yeah, I'm just gonna.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

So you're also because you're not in daycare, so like we always had a thing of like the kids are in daycare, they were telling us they're having like three bowls of Thai fish curry, and I'm like, you did not eat. And they're not hungry, right? So you're like they've obviously eaten so much during the day. So I'm like, cool, have a sandwich for dinner. Like, I'm not gonna push it when I know they've eaten so much during the day. But you guys are home, so you know. We know what they've eaten, yeah. And you're like, have you been on bottomless pit all day? Yeah, or have you barely eaten and I need to give you a half decent dinner? Yeah, it's so hard honestly.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

Like, I thought I'd be one like I love cooking, but I don't love cooking for a top bar.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

No, no, it's not worth it. Like, you've got one energy.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

I love chili, mate. You're ruining every single meal because oh, you like a spicy, like you like a spicy.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Me and Ryan, IBS, with Ryan, and me, absolutely not. I can't do it. Are you hiding your snacks or are you sharing them?

SPEAKER_04 52:14

Sharing. We're sharing.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Do you shower daily or dry shampoo?

SPEAKER_04 52:19

Shower daily.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Oh, yeah, I shower daily, but I only wash my hair once or twice a week.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Depending, yeah. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_04 52:26

Body body shower every week. Yeah, I'm once a week with my hair.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah. Once a week?

SPEAKER_04 52:31

But blonde, like bleaching. If you don't want to drive it, yeah, it goes like really wrong.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Yeah. Um, kids in your bed. Yes or not? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Only for like cuddles and like not constantly. Like bedtimes in the cot, and then if they wake up during the night and I can't be bothered in the bed. This is the thing we have.

SPEAKER_04 52:50

I'm a big yeah, he doesn't sleep in there, but I miss it now. Because he did ever it was like only when he was unsettled and stuff, and the there's actually nothing better than waking up with your baby. Waking up to you in the morning. I just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

I mean, we've already talked about this. Another baby, or absolutely not. You guys are both. Yeah. Give me your favourite swear word. Fuck.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

Yeah, I'd probably say fuck.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

We say fuck. I do like to end our podcast with Allowed Mum of the Week shout-out. Do you guys have a mum in your life that you're not allowed to give each other a shout out? Yeah. Another mum in your life that you'd like to give a shout-out to. Who is doing either an amazing job, you can call your own mums out? Like, who do you think is an incredible mum and would deserve a shout-out? You can do two seven ones.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yannica. That's Ollie's mum.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

She's the best. Honestly, like, what's the background? Dutch.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

So she's Dutch.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Olympia.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

I was about to say, like, she's like the epitome of a crazy Dutch lady.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Like, she is loud and she, if she was here right now, she would die.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

She would love her.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

We would have an absolute ball.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

She'd probably overpower. Like, you wouldn't get a word in.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

No, she would tell you everything.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

And if she stopped talking, she would die.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

She would tell you everything about Pam, though. She's our number one. She's like my lady. That's sounds great. I love her. And no, but she's also just like the best. Like when we were in Queensland for the last week, they were with us.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

And they looked after Miller and Leo while we went to a wedding. And Miller was being an absolute feral, but she still just like took it on to sort of but behaved. She Miller. Miller also behaved. As soon as I was gone, Milla was a fucking angel. Yeah. Me and my mum talk about this a lot.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Like my kids are angels for them. Yeah. And I'm still hesitant to give them like babysitting powers. Yeah. Because I'm like, I don't want you to deal with my shit.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

But we were like getting ready for a wedding, and Ash like literally was like had to hide in like the little um powder room. Yeah. Because Milla would like hearing when separation?

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Nah, she was, I think she was a bit sick. I don't know what's going on. No, I reckon.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

I reckon her ears or something. Like, you just don't know. She can't talk. Like, you know, they can't express how they're feeling. Yeah. But yeah, as soon as we were gone, oh my fucking sister. So we're on the bus, and the ceremony was at three o'clock, right? So my sister was there as well. And Samurai's at three, and then we got buses to a distillery about 30-40 minutes away.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

We've had like a couple of wines already. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

But we were on the bus in the mountains, and my sister's like, I was like, How are they? I think I must have messaged.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

So your mum and sister were there looking after them. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Yeah. And my sister goes, um, Leo's had a fall. We're at the hospital. Um, so something about Millie.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Milo won't stop crying.

SPEAKER_04 55:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Yeah. As a joke, and I'm like, she said that and we were like, you don't have kids. And literally, we were like, turn the butts around.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Yeah, turn the fucking butt. Love love a shout of the week to your fucking sister.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

Fuck. I know. We fucking bitch. I thought it was a funny joke, and then she told the husbands, and they're like, oh, that's funny. Husbands are like, nah.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Like the first time you've like left them to go and have like any of a few ones in. So we were like believed it.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

We believed it. My stomach dropped out of my arm. It was like dead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

Nah. Anyway, so I'm shouting out Yannica, and that's my shout-out.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

Yeah, I'd probably shout Jans. Like she's Yon's. She's the best. She's very caring and like very hands-on grandmother. I literally on Saturday was at a 40th lunch, forgot that I had a house swarming that night, and she lives 40 minutes away, and she's like, Yep, I'll come and look after Leo. Like, so good. You know, I don't know. She's just very drop tools, we'll come help whenever. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because I think she she can literally not say no to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

And Portia, you or is it Leo? Probably both. I think it's you also you because you're like her youngest child. Yeah. You're like her little baby.

SPEAKER_04 56:38

And because she's got two older grandsons, but they're like 18 and 21. So like no interest, but yeah, you know, he's like this shiny new.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

I'm not picking them up for the pub, but I'm professing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

It's too drunk.

unknown 56:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

Yeah. Um, yeah, we'll say yon. Yeah, let's say yon. Yeah. Yeah. So yon and cut up. Double yon. We're both jading. Yeah. Well, just as a general thought, you're doing better than you think. And if you yell today, honestly, it's okay because so did I. So stay loud, mums, and we'll talk to you next week.