Episode 3 - Writer Friends

Recorded on August 9th, 2022

In this episode, I talk about the surprising comment I got on my WIP from an agent, the rejection that made me cry, and how I got out of both of those hard places. Then I discuss writer friends! Why you need them, how to find them, and how to know if you’ve really got the perfect writing friendship match.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Youtube video on the importance of synopsis
• Story Grid’s Story Event
• Manuscript Academy Consultations
• Stephanie Ellis
• Mentoring Program of the Horror Writers Association
• Rebecca Heyman
• Apex Magazine
• The Deadlands
• Rachael Herron’s How Do You Write
• Rachael Herron’s answer to my question (I found it!)
• Abigail K. Perry
• Horror Writers Association
• Bianca Marais’s Beta Reader Matchup
• Support the show (and my writing career!): https://ko-fi.com/leftieaube

Tag me on your screenshots of the show @leftieaube and follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leftieaube/

⬇️ Visit my Bookshop page: https://bookshop.org/shop/leftieaube ⬇️

When you buy a book from this page, you are supporting an indie bookstore, the author of the book AND me, all at the same time!

Try out Scrivener (my favorite writing tool ever, the one I use to write all my novels!): https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener-affiliate.html?fpr=leftie68

This podcast is recorded and edited using Descript: https://www.descript.com?lmref=V_4suQ

It is hosted by Spotify for Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/

Intro music credit: “Cinematic Cello Arpeggio Trailer” by Gregor Quendel, found on Free Sound https://freesound.org/s/555995/

Disclaimer: Some of the above links are affiliates. At no extra cost to you, I’m receiving compensation for any purchase made through those links. Buying through those links supports my writing journey, which I highly appreciate!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Leftyobase Writing Podcast, where I share with vulnerability and positivity my journey towards making all of my writing dreams come true. I hope you learn with me as I go from the things that go well and what doesn't go so well. But mainly I wish it inspires you to pursue your own writing dreams. Now let's begin. Hello writers, thank you so much for being here again with me this week. So I've been away for two weeks uh because I was on a vacation from my day job and my partner was too, and the kids weren't going to daycare, so I decided to use this time to really have quality family time. Uh, so I didn't record and I didn't write. Um if you haven't checked out my trailer yet, uh I mentioned in there that I might take some break from the podcast from time to time because I really want this podcast to be following me on my real journey in real time. So I cannot batch record these in any ways so that it could fit with what I want this podcast to be. I'm sorry if my voice is a little uh nosy, is that the the word we could say? I I have a cold, uh, so that that might be it. I didn't write yesterday because of it. So sorry about that. My goal is not to skip too many weeks to be often. I really want this to be a recurring podcast for you. But last week uh I really wanted to take a complete break from all my writing career and journey. So that's why you didn't get an episode for the past two weeks, but now I'm back. So the topic for today is going to be writer friends. Uh, why they matter, why you need them, what makes a good writer friend, uh, and how and where you can find those people to have in your life. And no, it doesn't have to be like physically living near one. So that's going to be in the topic for this week, but before that, we have like two, three weeks of updates to cover. So I'm recording this um August 9th. Um, so basically I always record at the beginning of the week covering like what happened in the previous week. So that's why I've like I have like uh three weeks of updates to cover. So the first week was the week that started on the 18th of July. Uh the last week before my vacation, and uh during this week I finished chapter two of my horror novel. I finished working on the line editing uh the last draft before I query this project. So I'm going chapter by chapter, really making sure they are doing everything that they're supposed to be uh doing on a line level. And I'm also using the comments I got from my amazing writer friends and from my mentor to really make sure the book is as strong as it can be at this stage. So that's what I'm doing right now. So I finished chapter two um the week before my vacation. I submitted it to Stephanie, uh, and I started working on chapter three a little, but we were getting closer to the end of the week, and you know the vacation vibes were there, and I wasn't really focused that much. So I didn't make much progress on chapter three. I think I just split it uh because I I write into scenes when I'm really working on the novel in the previous draft. I work in terms of scenes, but that's not the same thing as chapter in a book. So I think the first thing I did was decided where I was going to cut my second, my third scene actually. Um, and it was not at the end of the third scene, which it had been for the first two chapters, it was the same thing as the scenes, but not for this one. So I think that's the only work I did that week. Um, I don't know what got into me. I listened to a video on YouTube by two agents where they were talking about the importance of the synopsis. I'm going to put a link in the show notes for this um for this YouTube video. I really recommend you go and check it out if you want to pursue a traditional publishing deal. And they mentioned the importance of the synopsis in this uh video, and I was like, okay, I need to write my synopsis. And sometimes I get like this energy to do something, and like I really, really want to do it, and now I know that when I get this energy to do something, I need to do it like right now. Because if I don't, if I wait until the moment I really need to do it, instead of when I feel like doing it, like it's going to be 10,000 times worse for me to do it, and so I know that at some point in the querying process I will need a synopsis, and I just felt like doing it, and I didn't feel like working on chapter three, so I just use my writing time to write the synopsis. Um it might seem like procrastinating, it might be, uh, but you know, in this case, like it's still doing useful work, so I just went with it. And um, actually, maybe some of you will hate me for this, but I really enjoyed doing the synopsis. Um, but I enjoyed it because I was using a tool that I had produced before, so I didn't start from scratch. I think that's what made it more fun and easier for me to do. So if you've listened to episode two of my podcast where I talk about my writing process, uh, you know that I'm use I'm doing this like big spreadsheet during my editing process, and there is a part in the spreadsheet where I will list the story event for each and every single scene of my novel. And I'm using the format or the way of writing a story event um as described by story grid. So I'm going to put a link again in the show notes if you want to check it out. I'm using their methods to come up with the story event, and I can really synthesize your scene into one max, just one sentence, really, maximum two. Um, and you really go to the core of your scene. So I already had all of those for my novels. So to write the synopsis, all I had to do was actually read those sentences and put them up together in a way that it just made sense. Uh, so that it flowed and it was clear. So I didn't use them all. I cut some of the story-event sentence, uh, and there was some I just we reworked uh to make it fit with the synopsis format, but I wasn't starting from scratch, and I think that's what was fun about it. So instead of having to take my entire 100,000 words manuscript and trying to put it in two pages, I already had those summary of every like scene with about like 2,000 words. I already had a summary of a sentence. So it was easier to go from there and then to go into two-page than with the entire manuscript. So uh if you have that sort of document and you're working on your synopsis, I really recommend that you use it. Um, and if you are in your editing process uh and it feels like something that could help you, like I really recommend that you do it, and it could be useful also to write your synopsis later. So, you know, it's not it's it's a work that really pays off in many ways. And also doing this story event uh thing, this where you summarize each scene into a sentence or two, it really helps also when you're editing, because if you have three scenes following one after the other, where it is like they talk over coffee about this, they talk over coffee about this, they talk over lunch about this, then you will see like you might have some redundancy problem or some um structural issue. You will see them much more clearly when you have those scene events than when you're looking at an entire scene. So I really believe it's a super useful editing tool as well as something that helps you write your synopsis. So that's something that I did uh during that week. And also I finished the week with something pretty cool. Um, so as part of my preparation for querying, I booked a couple of manuscript academy consultations with agents to really have the opinion of an actual agent working in my genre that I actually want to query on my submission packet. So that this way, like when you're just sending it and just getting a yes or no, you don't know what's wrong. But when you're actually having those consultations, you can know what works at what doesn't work, so that you can be more well prepared with your submission packet. And if you get a no, then you know that it's not because, for example, your query letter is not strong enough, like it's really just a question of taste. Um, so the Manuscript Academy, again, I will link in the show notes. Uh, they are really amazing, and this service is so great. So I did a consultation before with an agent on my query letter, and I plan on maybe doing another one after I will have rewritten my query uh again. I did, but I will again. Um, but this particular consultation was for the 10 first pages of my manuscript, and it came with uh 15 minutes call with an agent. Um so that was quite something. Uh so I got some really valuable comments about how I was still after putting so much work not to do it, I was still telling too much and not showing enough in specific place where I needed to. And uh the agent really gave me a specific example on where when I was doing it and how I could make it stronger. Uh, so that was really helpful. But the first thing the agent said was to cut my first scene entirely. And if you have listened to previous episodes, I think I talk about how this scene worked well for many of my Rainer friends who read the novel. Like this was a comment that I had that this scene was strong. And I did also, I mentioned it last uh episode, I think. Uh, I did an event where they read my first scene and critiqued it, and every I I really thought like it was doing everything that a first scene was supposed to do. So I'm meeting with this agent who works in this jar, and the comment I get is that I need to delete this scene. So I was completely like, completely, oh I didn't know what to do with that that comment. So that was the advantage of having the 15 minutes consultation call because the Manuscript Academy, they also have the option of having a written feedback on your first 10 pages of your manuscript. And a part of me was like, I think those would be more helpful to writers because you actually get like inline details comment, but at the same time, during my consultation, I was able to ask the agent, like, okay, this scene I had the feedback that it was working great, so I'm confused. And we most of the meeting was really talking about this, and you know, the agent said that it was possible um that the comment was not right for my project, that you know, it was something that could happen. So what I did, and that's what inspired this episode, and the topic of this episode, was that I wrote in panic to everyone of my writer friends who had read my novel, and I including also uh Stephanie Ellis, my mentor, and I told them, you know, I got this comment from this agent, and I'm panicking and I don't know what to do. What do you think? And I get back their their answer, and I'm like, I'm having this amazing conversation that goes so far beyond uh you should do this or this. In fact, like I think there are only two of my friends who really said, like, I think you should do that. Uh, but all of them were like, this is your decision, but this is what I think you should consider before you take your decision. And that was so incredibly valuable because it went so much farther than the original comment. It went into the theme of my novel and where my novel sits in the horror genre, and why you need to really understand a project to be able to make good comments about it. And it's not that the agent didn't give me a good comment, it was with the perspective that the agent had at that moment, this 10 pages. But for a writer who has known me for years and who has read the entire novel, it doesn't it didn't resonate the same way. Um, and actually there's an editor, Rebecca Heymond, I think. Um and she doesn't offer, like I asked her because she's a really good editor, and I asked her if she had editing service for a shorter piece, like if she could do just the first 10 pages, a first page, a query, and she said she was not offering them because the only way she could edit well a first page or a query was if she knew the entire project. And you know, that made so much sense, even though I was like disappointed of not working with this editor because I did not want it to invest right now in a full um editing service from a professional editor. It's too much money and I cannot invest this kind of money at this time. Uh so I was disappointed. But now having this experience with this manuscript academy meeting, it really made me understand and see why she was so right in doing this. Now I'm not saying that the meetings from Manuscript Academy are not useful, absolutely not. I got a lot from it. Like the conversation I had was super worth it, and the comments the agent made about showing versus telling with the actual example, like that was super helpful. Like I thought that I had mastered the show not tell advice. Looks like I didn't. So that was super, super, super valuable. The conversation I had, like those were valuable. And also, it also made me understand. Like, I knew it intellectually, but it made me understand on a physical level how much querying and publishing in general is about finding the right people for you and your book. I knew this, I heard this I don't know how many times, but with this, it really made me saw that no matter how amazing an agent can be, or an editor could be, or an imprint could be, if they do not understand what you want to do with a project, and if they're not on board with it, and if they're not in love with what you're actually trying to do with your project, they cannot be the best advocate for you on this journey. So you would be better not to work with them. That's just the way it is. And it's easy to say that when you have three offers on your table and say, okay, I'm gonna choose the best person to represent me, but when you have no offer, it's like I would just take anyone, but no, absolutely not, because having someone who understands what you want to do, even if that goes against what is being done right now in a genre, or it's slightly different from what is going on, but you feel like that's really what you should do, you need someone who will say, Okay, yeah, I see it, I get it, and we're doing this to get there. And that's why I feel so super privileged to have Stephanie with me because she gets my book completely. I don't think our contribution to my project would be as massively significant as it is right now if she didn't get my book so much. And yeah, that's really all of this showed me so much and taught me so much about publishing in general and myself, and gosh, it made me again so so happy that I have my writer friends with me. And they were all so much helpful, and they all said different things and pointed out to different elements that I had to consider, and believe it or not, based on everything that they told me, I've decided to not listen to this agent and to keep my first chapter, but at least like now it's a perfectly really reflected decision that I took. Like, it's not just oh, I put this scene there for the fun of putting it there because it's all good. Like, I have made a strong argument with myself of why this scene needed to be there, and I know why it needs to be there, and I will query this agent, still keeping the scene in, and I will mention it in the correlator, and I will say, like, I went against your advice, but here's why, and I hope you choose to request my entire novel because I know you will like it. So I'm going to be bold this way. Um, because I still believe that this agent could be the right fit for me and my project, if like with the entire perspective on the entire novel. Uh so we'll we'll see. But um, that's how confident I am in my decision of keeping the scene. And it's not just at some point I was like, okay, this is just a darling you will have to kill. Like, kill your darlings, like Stephen King said. Maybe it's just it's just going to be that. But talking to my friends and thinking about it with everything they they said I should think about, uh, I really came out to the decision that no, I wasn't just keeping this scene out of ego, or just because I liked it, or just because I worked so much on it and it flowed so much. Uh, there was really a specific reason why this scene needed to be there. So yeah, that that's uh a lot. I know, but uh yeah, that that first week and especially that that last day, that was on Friday. Uh that was uh that was a big day. So after that, uh we were on vacation. My family and I went like to a remote cabin in the wood with no electricity, no cellular service, no Wi-Fi, and we just like spent time together, and we went on the lake, we swam in the lake, did some paddleboard, some kayaking, and I read. I read so much. I read almost two complete books, so that was it. And then when we came back from those, um, from that vacation, uh, we were at home, but still not working, so it was lots of family time, and I decided to not write to really take a complete break so that I could like do fires with my partner and our kids uh uh at night, and I could wake up uh later in the morning, uh, and so that I could also do like all the us stuff that we need to do, like thousand loads of laundry that were long overdue. Uh all that fun stuff. So that was really cool. Uh but I ended the week on another rejection for my uh horror short stories. So if you listen to the previous episode, you know that I got two rejections um like two three weekends ago. And I got another one, uh, this one from Epex magazine. Um and it hit like really hard because the first magazine I submitted to, uh, it was long before I got my rejection, so it made me really think that I had gone through at least two readers, uh, because there was several rejections that came sooner than mine, faster than mine. So I was like, okay, so you made it to athletes to readers. Uh so that was basically the goal for Apax magazine. I wanted to make it to athletes to readers, and they they tell you, they give you a hold when they are really submitting your um, when they are really considering your short story. So it was like, okay, I wanna have at least a whole. Like, that's the goal. And I didn't, and I really thought I would. Uh, so it was like a form rejection, and I wasn't sure. So I have a new friend that I made on Instagram uh who is submitting a lot to magazines, so I just send him my rejection saying, Hey, do you think this is formal or personal? This is form or personal, and he said, No, this is their form one. So, and he submitted he sent me a picture of his so that I know that it was exactly the same thing. Uh so I was glad to know because it it could be kind of personal, but no, it was their form. Uh, but it really like it hurt a lot. It had been some time since I've cried over rejection. I'm a crier, like I cry really easily, but I have made like more of a thick skin over the years, and it had been like I think two years since I've cried over rejection. Like, I could take them. I was like, okay, like I'm sad, but you know, it will pass. But this one, like, I was I was weeping. Oh my god, and I was like back into the place of you know, have you seen if you've seen Lala Land, like this scene where she says, Maybe I'm not good enough, and maybe this hurts just a bit too much. Like, I I love this scene because it speaks to my heart so much, and I always go back to this when a rejection hits, and it's like, maybe I just suck at this, and I will never be published. And if no one wants to give me money for my writing, maybe this is a sign that I shouldn't be doing this. So I was really spiraling down not fun places. Uh so I was talking with this friend, and I was talking with my writing group too, especially one member of my writing group, because the other one, uh, she just had a baby, so she's busy, as we can uh understand. Yeah, so I was talking with my other friend, and yeah, I was super discouraged, but um why I want to talk about writing friends today is because they both like pick me up big time. Um, I'm so grateful I I told them both thanks, but I'm going to say it again. Um and basically telling me that it's part of the journey because it is. Um, and my writing is not to be blamed because like they read my stuff, and it's not that I suck, that there are millions of reasons why a story can be rejected, that doesn't have to do with the quality of the writing, and basically that I'm progressing even though I have nothing new to show for it, even though it doesn't seem like it on an external level, that I'm still progressing and I'm still moving forward, and that yes, I could quit if I wanted to, but that this wasn't a sign that I should stop, basically. So yeah, they really, really helped me so much. So I was still sad, I was still disappointed, but at least I wasn't crying anymore, which was good. And now I've decided that um I'm going to. It's called the Deadlands magazine. Um, and they publish stories about that and go about that. That's the team really of the magazine Deadlands. Um in my story is a story about ghosts and about grief, so it fits like completely in the magazine. Like it could not fit more, I think. Um, so but they have a limit of 5,000 words, and my story now sits at 5,600 words. So uh yeah, so I need to cut 600 words before I can submit it to them, and they pay like a lot, they pay well. Um so that's good too. Uh, so I decided that's what I'm going to do, and uh, so I need to go back and cut a lot of words again. At least I have some ideas of where I could cut. So, you know, we'll see. Uh, I don't know when I will be working on this story again because I want to focus more on the short story, but at the same time, like I would like to have this story be out again. Uh, but yeah, I think I just need an emotional buffer before to submit it again because I don't think I could right now uh stand another rejection, to be honest. Like, I I need to redo my thick stin my thick skin before I go back. So, yeah, so that's the plan. So another rejection. You know, that happens. Uh and if you are in there too, like just know that you're not alone, you're feeling the pain. Uh, and as my mother said, my my parents love Stevens King's story about the nail on this wall, and he he's sticking up like he was sticking up his rejection letter on his nail, and the the nail would be too full at some point, and he would put another one next to it and just put his other rejection on it. And they always said, like, it's just another one on the nail, like you keep on going, and they are great. My parents, they call me too to lift me up after the rejection, and yeah, that that's true. Like, they're right. That's another one on the nail. And if Stephen King got all of those rejections, I think I can handle a couple more again. Uh, so yeah, so that's about it for my updates. So, right now, this week, I'm planning on keeping on working on my line editing, uh, hoping to pick up some speed. We'll see, but right now it's going slowly. So, okay, now for the topic of the day, which is writer friends. Now, why did I use writer friends instead of meta readers or critique group or critique partner or writing group? I'm using writer friends because for me this goes so much farther beyond critiquing, like it's an important part of having friendship with other writers, of course. Um, but there is so much more to it. Uh, so why do you need writer friends in your journey? Uh, so if you haven't listened to my first episode, I really go back all the way through all my writing journey, and there was the part where I was really discouraged. Um, so I didn't talk about this in details because, like, otherwise the episode would have been two hours long. But um before I got my first writer friends, there was a point in my writing journey where I was really down and really getting discouraged with all the rejection and mostly with feeling like I've been writing for so long and I had nothing to show for it. And that was really bringing me down. And I was listening a lot, I'm still listening to Rachel Aaron's podcast, which is called How Do You Write? I will link to it again. Uh, I think I've mentioned her podcast in like every episode, but that's just how important this podcast and Rachel Aaron was for me in my journey. Uh, but I I was listening to her podcast, and she had and she still has this option on her Patreon uh where you could submit a question and she would answer it on here on her podcast. So I submitted it to her the question, how did you keep on going when you were sitting in the wrong chair? So when she had another job and she knew she wanted to be in the writer's chair, she knew she wanted to be a full-time writer, and that's how she was saying it. Like, I was in the wrong chair, and now I'm in the right chair. And I was like, How did you did it? How did you keep on going while you were in the wrong chair? Because I'm in this chair right now, and it's really difficult, and like I'm not sure I can keep on going. Like, I want to keep on going, but this is discouraging, and I don't know how to stay motivated. So, how did you do it? And I will try to find back this episode and link to it in the show notes so you can go check out it if I found it back. But um, if I can, I will link to it so you can listen to the actual question and the actual answer that Rachel gave. But it was basically you need to find your people. What made her be able to withstand being in the wrong chair up to a point where she could be in the right chair was the people with her on this journey. And she said, You need to find your people, you need to have writer friends. And when I got this advice, although at some level I knew that she was right, I had this limiting belief that it was impossible for me to find writer friends because I'm staying in Quebec, I'm writing in English, and Quebec is French mainly, so it was like there is no one close to me that I could meet that's writing in English and that wants to be a published author and everything. So it was like it's impossible for me. Like I cannot, like Rachel mentioned, she went to like RWA back when it was a thing. I don't know if it's still his. Um, that is Romance Writers of America, and that was where she met like her people, and there was a chapter in the town she was living in, so she would go to this place and meet other writers, and I was like, I can't, I don't have that, I cannot do that. Um so I had this limiting belief that I could not have writer friends because um of where I lived, but you know, this was like all limiting beliefs, this was just like a lie I was telling myself to prevent myself from actually doing the work of going out there and meeting people. So, anyway, time passed and I managed to find my writer friends, and right now, like you can know from the update part of the episode how valuable my writing friends are to me, like how much they help me to go through the rough parts and to stay on this wrong chair until the moment I am the right chair. Like, I owe my writer friends so much of the growth I have had as a writer and of my mental stability on this journey. And so, why do you need writer friends? Yes, there is the critic part. So, criticking other people and being critiqued, those are so important because there are things that you simply cannot see in your own work. And there is a point where you cannot take your work any further on your own, so you will need other eyes on it, and other writers can be super beneficial as opposed to having just another reader giving you advice because a reader will read your stuff and they will give you feelings. Oh, I didn't connect with the main character, oh, I didn't feel like the middle was working, or I didn't feel like the ending was the right one. And while those comments are valuable, it can be hard to know what to do with them. As opposed to a writer who is engaged in the craft and who has word to speak with you and will be able to say, I don't think your midpoint is working, or you don't have a midpoint, or I think you're showing too much in this chapter, you should be telling a little bit more, they could say things to you and approach things differently than a reader could never do. So it's like if a doctor was to ask advice on a medical case to a carpenter, like it just doesn't work. Like they don't speak the same language, they don't have the base, the same base knowledge, like it just it just doesn't work. So it's the same thing with writing. You should ask advice about writing to other people who know something about writing. But anyway, uh, and giving critique also is almost, I think, as important, if not more important, than receiving the critique. Because when you're looking at someone else's unfinished product compared to all the short stories and novels you may have read, which have been like polished to an extent, when you're seeing someone's work in progress, you can see the kind of mistakes and the kind of tweaks that we do when we write that are not the most effective to tell a great story. And it's much more easier to see those things on someone else's work that we have no like emotional attachment to than seeing it in our own work. But when you've seen something in someone else's work, you will remember when you go back to your own. So you could be like telling, telling, telling, telling everything in your chapter and not showing anything and not really realizing it. But when you will read the chapter from a friend, when they are doing the same thing, you will say, like, oh, now I get it. Now, as a reader of a work, I see how boring it is when they tell me that oh, they felt sad because they had already felt that with their the previous partner or anything. So when you see it in someone else's work, you're really understanding at another level, and it's harder to have this kind of um learning experience when you're only reading super polished things that have been published because you know the job was done to take all of those away. So when you're actually reading a piece from a friend, you see it more. Um, so that's the critic part. It's super important, but it's not all of your writer friends that needs to be critic partner. You can have a writer friend who will never read your stuff and you will never read them stuff, and they could still be a super important friend on your journey. And that's because of the second reason why writer friends are so important, and that's for emotional support. This is for me, and I think this is exactly what Rachel Heron was mentioning to me, too, was this part of being there for you in the lows. And like you might think, like, oh, but my partner is there to support me emotionally on this journey, my parents are super cool and they are there to support me on this journey, and my best friend, she's amazing, she gets me, she will be there for me on this journey. But the thing is, no matter how awesome all those people could be around us, they could never really understand what we are going through. It takes only another writer to really get it and to give the sort of support we really need and to say the right thing that we really need when we need them. And I've said it in my update like the two difficult moments that I had in the past few weeks concerning my writing, it was because of my writer friends that I managed to quickly get out of them. And if I didn't have those friends with me, like my parents, they were there, they tried to cheer me up. My friend, she tried to cheer me up, and my partner too, he was there, he wanted me to feel better, he yugged me and everything, but it was the words from my writer's friend who had read my work, who have been there, who have seen me work at this, who were doing the same thing that really managed to make me say, okay, this is just a part of the journey, and we go back and we keep going. So that's kind of support. If you want to make it through the roughs, you need those kind of people with you. And the third reason why you need writer friends is to have someone to celebrate with. Again, you can celebrate with your partner and your friends and your family, but there is a kind of like sharing the good as a community with other people, with other writer that makes you feel so good. And like, it's not just celebrating your success, but it's celebrating the success of the other person around you, of your other writer friends. Like, just to give you an example, my writing group, we have been uh meeting almost two times a week, about for something like a year now, maybe a little longer. And so far, we didn't have like any good news to celebrate together, like it just didn't happen in the time, like external good news. We had like lots of other great things, like finishing project and uh my friend getting pregnant, and like those were the things that we celebrated together, but I can't wait for them to be published and have books contract and have signed with agent. I can wait for them to get all of those things as much as I can wait for me to get those things. And I know that the day that my friend tells me she has a book deal, I will be so happy. I'm sure I will cry of happiness. How much I will be happy for her. So having those people around you and being able to celebrate with them their wins along as your wins, it's like you're winning even more. So that's a great thing, and also you grow all together, and I think there's something beautiful in seeing each other through the years, through the drafts, through the novel, getting better and better and better because we're working together. So that's uh all the reason why you need to have writer friends with you on your journey. I'm telling you, it makes like all the difference in the world. Now you might say, but that's super cool, but I have the same limiting belief as you. Like, I don't think I can find some writer friends. I don't have any writer friends, and like it's impossible for me to get them. Now I'm going to talk really from my own experience. So if any of this doesn't resonate with you, if you already tried those ways and it didn't work for you, like feel completely free, like everything I say, by the way, and everything everyone says, like, feel free to just ignore completely if it doesn't resonate, or if you've tried it and doesn't work. Like, we're all different, we all work differently, we have all different brains, we have all different backgrounds and privilege and difficulties, so we can never exactly replicate what another person is doing, but this is how I found my writer friends. So, right now, I would really say that I have six really great writer friends. Like, I have other people that I know that are writers too and that are on this journey, but those six people, they are really my people, and like they are some of my favorite people, like total in my life. Not kidding. Uh and I've never met like any of them. Um, so these are the way that I met my own writer friends, uh, so that it can inspire you to check out the place when you could meet your future writer friends. Um, so the first place is social media. I'm saying this first because like I think that people they think about this way, but they underestimate it. And for the longest time, like I didn't think that this was a place that I could actually meet someone and become a true friend with. And for the longest time, I didn't make any writer friends really this way. Uh, but just recently I've started talking with another writer, and we really just like it just clicked. Like, and we've been talking a lot, and it's one of the friends that helped me with my latest rejection. So it's actually possible to really connect with someone on social media and to really become friends with them. Uh, but it's just about, you know, talking to people, following other writers who are about like in the same jar as you, and I will get to that. Like, how to what makes a good writer friend? Like what to look at for to know if it's a good writer friend or not, like a good fit for writer friend. So I will get into that, but you can go by looking on social media and actually DMing people, uh, telling them like, oh, I like your last post, I felt the same thing or whatever, like just being genuine, a genuine person on the internet and just interacting in the DMs with other writers. And who knows, maybe it will click with someone and you will say, like, okay. And I've had that happen like on several occasions since I've been on Instagram. Uh, mostly that's the place where I met the most people because I don't really like Twitter and Facebook. I'm not even going to think about it. Uh but um, and there was some point I was like, yeah, I think this is really working out, we're going to be super best friends, and like from one day to another, like we weren't speaking anymore. So that's just how life is, you know. But uh, you know, it didn't prevent me to keep on talking with people. So that's one way that you can meet um other writer friends. The other way, and this is the way that I made actually my first writer friend ever, she's amazing, and I really like her a lot, and it was by participating in a workshop, and it was a small workshop, it was hosted by Abigail K. Perry. I'm going to link to her um website in the show notes. I don't think she's doing those kind of workshops anymore, but you can really look online and try to find those. And it was a really small group of persons. We were all meeting on Zoom every week. We had a movie to watch, and then we would be discussing the movie to learn some craft, uh, story craft principle. And there was this one person on the group that I was like, okay, I'm really liking her. Like, I like the way she thinks about story, I like the way she talks about story, I like the kind of comments that she gives me. Uh, I like her story, like I like critiquing her work too. But she had like a book published, and I was like, okay, she's like way out of my league as a friend, as a writer friend. So I didn't talk, think much of it, but I was like, oh, I would like to be your friend. And when the workshop was finished, I just shoot her an email. I think it was me. I'm not sure who emailed who first. But I just said, you know, uh, hey, like if you'd like to keep on corresponding, uh, like I like that. Like I genuinely enjoyed meeting you on this workshop. And she was like, Oh my god, me too. Like, I'm so happy that that you want to keep talking. I felt the same, and I was like, Oh my god, I was not crazy in taking that. So it's been um two years now, yeah. My son will be two years and I was pregnant, so it will be like close, yeah, three years in December, yeah, that we've met. And uh yeah, she's one of my favorite persons ever. So those types of events, like they connect you with same-minded people. So if you go to a workshop about story, structure, and romance novel, you will meet other writers who want to be better at their structure and who are writing romance. So the chance that you will meet someone that you click with and that you really connect with are greater than if you just go, like, I don't know, to the library and you start talking to someone. You see what I mean? So I think those events really bring out the same kind of people together, and that's actually why Abigail said that she was doing those kinds of workshops for this reason to bring people together. So that's an amazing way to meet um new writers, and it doesn't have to be in your town, like it was all online for me. But if there is a workshop in town, like sure, go to it and you could meet someone in person. But you can do it online if you don't have access in person to those events. Um now the third way that I made my writer friends is to the Horror Writers Association. Um so the first one I made because I attended a pitching event, and there was someone who I said, Oh, I like his um, I like his pitch, and we just chatted in the little box, and like we added off. He said, Oh, I like your pitch and me too, and like you just say that way. Uh but I remember his name, and then months later I just wrote him an email saying, you know, what what came out of your pitch? Because the agent had requested his work, so was like, hey, what happened with it? Because I really thought that he would have like a book deal or something, and I just wanted to, like I said, celebrate with him. Um, so he said, like, no, there was nothing coming out of the event, but we just kept writing emails back and forth, and it's been months now that that we are corresponding. Um, we've swept work, but only just super recently, like before it was just like giving each other news on our writing journey. So this is one way, but this was through the Aura Writers Association that I met this person, and um, another way that I met uh another writer friends through the Aura Writers Association is through their they have chapters, like more localized chapters, and they made some virtual ways of people for to meet because of the pandemic, and so I was able to get into the Ontario chapter of the Canadian chapter of the Aura Writers Association because they made this so they could keep on talking, and because I was in Quebec, like if the pandemic hadn't happened, like they wouldn't have created this and I wouldn't have been able to be a part of this, but um so good things that came out of the pandemic, but anyway, I went on there and uh it was actually proposing to critique someone's short stories, and I just finished my short story and I was looking for comments on it, so I just like completely out of the blue. I had never spoken to him personally, and I just sent my short my story and he gave me back like the best comments ever. Like all the comments I got on this short story from all of my Raider friends were amazing just saying that, but like I wasn't expecting this level of great comments, to be honest, uh, from someone I had never spoken to much before. Um, and we just kept kept on corresponding. And then I said, you know, if you ever need someone to look at your work, I was like, I'm sure that you have like an army of better readers already, but you know, if you want me to check it out, I can. And he said, No, I don't really have, and he submitted me, like he sent me um short story recently, and I gave him some feedback, and he thought it was valuable. I think that's what he said. So uh, and he read actually my my entire novel, uh, the one that I'm working on right now, and he gave me also some awesome feedback on that. Um, so so yeah, so that was completely like just um yeah, it just felt completely right, and it was completely random this way. So you can look out at associations of writers in your genre and um other groups of writers that are about the same place as you are, and you can check out, be a part of those groups and start talking to people. Again, sometimes it will not work, sometimes it will not click. Like during the pitching event, I actually spoke to another girl that I really enjoyed her pitch, and I I wrote her an email. Uh, but it just like it didn't click, didn't click like uh, and we stopped talking, so but it's okay, like it just it didn't work. Um, so like it's like dating, but for friends basically. Um but when you are in those kinds of association, again you will be with like mind and mind who are working in your genre and who are on the same journey that you are. So uh, and and you you have to be active, like it's one thing to be a part of an association, but if you are not actually engaging in the association, you will not make friends, of course. So that comes with it. Uh, but the way that I met my writing group, which we are actually we are three, uh, and we are talking, like I said, about every two weeks. Uh, sometimes it's longer, but we always get back to it. And we have um a Discord uh channel, is that what we say? A Discord place, just for us three where we could give each other some news about different things. Um, and we meet there, we meet through Discord. And those fabulous persons, again, I met completely randomly. I was on Twitter, I'm never on Twitter, but I was there and I saw a tweet from Bianca Maray. Um, and she said she was doing a better reader matchup. And she said, just email me your jar and email me your time zone, and I will match people based on that. And so I wasn't even really looking for writing group at this point, and I just acted out of complete instinct, and I I saw the tweet, I copied her email address, and I just send her an email right away saying, I'm writing horror, I want to traditionally publish this, and I'm on the East Coast, and boom, I send the email. Nothing more, not not talking really about the implication of being a writing group, like it was completely out of instinct. And uh I don't know how long later she matched me with three other writers who are also writing horror and who are also on the East Coast, um East Eastern time. Sorry, I'm bad with the times. Um and actually one of the people, like we exchanged a few messages at the beginning, but she just dropped out. That's perfect. It wasn't a right fit for her, and that's perfect. But actually, the the the tree, the three of us that stayed, like it clicked instantly. I think like the second meeting that we had, it was like we had been friends like for a long time, like it just clicked so well. Um, and yeah, like they are some of my favorite people, and I'm so so grateful that I have them with me on this journey. So, and you're in luck if you're listening to uh the episode in real time or anywhere in the month of August, I think she's running it until the end of August, but I'm having like a slight slip of memory here. So, anyway, I've put the link in the show notes. Bianca Maray is actually doing the beta reader matchup again, right now. It's open. So if you're listening to this episode in real time and you're looking for a writing group, just go there and just sign up. And like, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Like, don't be mad at Bianca because I know that some people were actually mad at her when the match-in didn't work, so don't do that, please. Like, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, it's not her fault. But but just go out there and try. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. So I will put a link in the show notes. So if you're looking for your people, like this is a perfect way that worked like magically for me, and I'm not the only one. Like, I've seen lots of people writing to Bianca and saying, like, I've met with my awesome writer writing group because of you. So it's open right now. Go check it out. Uh, maybe it's not too late for you to to sign up. And I'm not like an affiliate of Bianca or in any ways, like I'm just like so grateful for her for doing this the first time around, and for me finding my two great friends through this way. So I just want you to find your people too. So it's great that we have all those ways to find people, but how do we know if it's a good fit? Because that's so important. Really, having the wrong people give us like critique or giving us advice on this journey, I think can be as harmful as having the right advice and the right critique from the right people can be helpful. So you need to really need to be like consciously doing this. And again, this coming from my own experience, but this is where I found like the sweet spot of really the best friendship that I've made with other writers. This is the four things that I found that when they were present, like the match was the best to have a writer friend. So this is not things that I consciously was looking for, but I find that in the six people that are there, like they almost they all fill in most of at least three of those four things, always. So just some things to look out. And if you're not sure if the person is a right fit to be like your super writing best friend, like maybe if there is like only one of those things or none, like maybe that's like a red flag for you to maybe check someplace else. Um so just some things to think about to know if okay, is this a right fit for me or not? Um so the first thing is you need to have about the same goals. So if you are really determined to be traditionally published, and your writer friends is just writing as a hobby, like the sort of support that they can offer you is not exactly the same. Like, again, I'm saying about because it can happen that you have this awesome writer friend who doesn't have the same goal as you and it works, but when you're on the same journey with the same goals, you can understand what the other is going through way more accurately than if you're on two different paths. And you can give each other advice much more accurately too when you're working towards the same thing. And also, if you want to, for example, have a traditional deal and all your writer friends are all indie publishing, they will not have the same level of being able to support you on this journey because they will not know like the tools that could be helpful for your querying and everything. And those are the sorts of things that helps you grow and that helps you progress in towards your goal, and the same way that you cannot help uh this indie published friend as much because you don't know what they are doing. So there's not, it's not about right or wrong in this case, it's just being in the same lane, and that's where you can help each other the most. So having about the same goals is always like the the great sweet spot, I find. Um, and also being about at the same place in the writing journey. Like, not that you cannot help someone who has like five books published when you are just uh when you are you're still working on your first draft ever, or or vice versa, but like it's about being like on an equal ground, if we want. And I think that's where you can learn the most from critiquing someone else too, like when you're on the same level, and they can also help you the most when you're on the same level. So it's not again that someone's better than the other, it's just really that you've done the same amount of work prior and and you can build on top of that. Rachel Aaron said that the sweet spot for great writer friends is when both of you, you both think that you're the one who's getting most out of the relationship. Like you're both thinking that you're the other one is better than you and is helping you more than you're helping them. If you feel like you're giving value to the person, but at the same time you're like, oh my god, I think they're way better than me. I think that's really the sweet spot for writer friends. And I absolutely think that all my writer friends are way better at this than me, and that I'm the one taking the most out of this. But they have always all said that I gave them not all, about all, said literally that I gave them like something valuable in return. So, you know, I think we have this sweet spot. Uh so that that's a place where when you know, and I think that if you're not about in the same place in the journey, it's hard to reach that that level, you know, feeling like you're on equal ground, and the other one is just slightly better than you at this. Um, and again, it's not also like I'm feeling like I'm talking about like uh like it's a commercial exchange or something, like you must offer as much as you receive. Of course, there is more to win than that, but I think it's an important relationship to be in the place of giving and receiving. Like I think it's just important. So the third thing that you will find when you have a good fit with a writer friend, but this one actually is the least important in my opinion, uh, but it helps. Uh but if it's not there, like it really doesn't matter, I think, uh, to some extent. And it's being in the same genre or about the same genre. Uh, there is some extreme that I think it could be hard for you to really be on this equal ground again. And like if one person is writing middle grade novel and another one is writing literary, again, not saying that one is better than the other, but it's just so different that the level of help they could provide to one another could be limited, you know. Um, or someone who is writing super hardcore sci-fi and someone else who is writing romance, again, they could help each other, but sometimes maybe like the understanding will not be like as good if as you are two romance writers uh working together. So, um, so I think that's the the rule that could be like that's not really a must. And actually, the the the friend that I met through the workshop, she doesn't write horror, and like I said, like she's so amazing, and I'm so grateful to have her on this journey with me. But there was some great value to be gained from having like two hardcore AR fan as my better readers. This is not the most important one, but it helps. Uh, and the last one is the most important, and it's you might have guessed it, it's just vibes. Uh, so the vibes need to be there, like any friendship, you know, you just connect with someone. So just be sure that uh if you if you find someone like I same goals as you, same place as you, same jar as you, and you really feel like this person is so good, and she could really help you on your journey, but the vibes aren't there, but you keep on artificially maintaining this relationship just because you think you can get something something out of it. Like, for me, I don't think that would be a great spot, but uh, you know, you do what you want to do. But uh yeah, I think that the vibes is the the the most important part at the end of what makes an awesome relationship in general, but also a writer-friendly uh relationship. So that was all I wanted to cover on this amazing subject. Sorry again for the long episode, but I think that at this point, like three episodes in, you can know that I talk a lot. That's why I made a solo show. Uh, I love talking about this stuff, so I'm just going to talk a lot. So sorry for the long episode. Um, before we leave, I just want to say uh if you enjoy the podcast, uh be sure to subscribe to it so that you are uh alerted every time there is a new episode coming out. And also, I've created uh and I've just recently updated my Ko-Fi page. Uh, so you can go there and support me if you're enjoying the podcast. So, this is a way really to show me that you like the podcast and that you want me to continue. Right now, my goal is to cover the cost of producing and uh recording this podcast for an entire year. So the money that you send me can help me, you know, cover those costs. So if you wanna support me in this way, and it's also helping me uh to support me in my writing journey too. So Ko-Fi is about the equivalent of Patreon, but the reason why I chose Ko-Fi is because it allows you to make a one-time uh donation. So if you don't want to commit with a credit card to a monthly donation to the podcast, like I completely understand, and you can just send me like a one time off thing, and I will be super grateful. But if you choose to uh support the podcast or me, my writing journey monthly, I also added some little like um things special that you can have when you're supporting me, like at $1 a month, $3 a month, $5 a month. So you can go and check that out. Um, and also right now, as of today, I haven't made my first dollar with my writing career so far. So right now you have the possibility to be the person who will give me my first dollar ever with my writing career. So if you want to be part of this historic moment, like this is the time to do it. Uh and please, like, really don't feel like giving a dollar is cheap. Like, it adds up. Like, if every single person listened to one episode of the podcast sent me one dollar, it would make a difference in the end. So it's really more a gesture on your part, really, that you believe in what I'm doing, that you enjoy what I'm doing, you believe in me, and that's the way of financially showing that support. And I will be ecstatic for every single dollar that comes in. So uh, if you enjoy the podcast, just go out there and uh do your uh do your donation. So the link is in the show notes, it will always be in the show notes. Um, and that was all for this week. I hope you'll be there next week for the next episode of the podcast. But it in the meantime, I'm wishing you a lovely week of writing.