Extraordinary Joe 03 Episode: Caroline Bell of Cafe Grumpy

Some people leave everything behind to build something special. Extraordinary Joe is a podcast that finds those people, sits down with them and goes deep.

Host Jeremy Lyman, co-founder of Birch Coffee in New York City, brings a rare insider's perspective to every conversation. From the first spark of an idea to the moments that almost broke them, these are the real stories behind the places that feel like home.

Because a truly great coffee shop is never just about the coffee.

Episode 03 : On this week's episode, I sit down with Caroline Bell, co-founder of Café Grumpy, for one of the most unexpected and genuinely fun conversations yet. We talk about what it really took to build one of New York City's most iconic independent coffee brands and we end up covering customer service, dogs, great coffee and ghosts?! 

This one goes everywhere. And we loved every minute of it

Watch on YouTube (coming soon)

Follow us on Instagram:   @extraordinaryjoepodcast @coffeedogguy

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Some coffee shops just feel different. The moment you walk in, something shifts. You feel it before you order. Maybe it's the music, the light, the way that someone looks up at you and says hi. It doesn't happen by accident. Someone made a thousand intentional decisions to create that feeling. And usually they gave up quite a bit to do it. Extraordinary Joe is a podcast about those people, the founders behind the world's most exceptional coffee shops. Their vision, their sacrifice, stories they maybe haven't told anyone. Because a truly great coffee shop is never just about the coffee. I'm Jeremy Lyman, co-founder of Birch Coffee in New York City, and this is Extraordinary Joe. My guest today is Caroline Bell. Caroline is the co-founder of Cafe Grumpy, which is a New York City icon as it comes to coffee brands. Caroline was looking for a great cup of coffee and just kept coming up empty. So she and her husband got on their bikes, rode around New York City, and were looking for something worth drinking. And when they couldn't find it, they decided to build it themselves. They've been around since 2005 and have grown into something really spectacular. So Caroline, welcome to Extraordinary Joe.

SPEAKER_05 1:27

Hi Caroline. Caroline, I I'm I feel very fortunate to be in coffee and have gotten into coffee the time that I did because of the people that really pioneered. I mean, you were one of the first. And I won't give Jonathan credit for being the first because he gives credit else, he gives credit to somebody else for being the first. But um you were, I mean, very much a pioneer for specialty coffee industry. Do people tell you that? How does that make you feel when they say that to you?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Um well, I'm you've heard it. A shy person. But I mean, I do think we've been there for a long time and we were we had the first NESO at the on the East Coast, things like that. You know, we took things very, very seriously.

unknown 2:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

Um, I I didn't know that your logo was a coffee bean until probably until a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. We had the logo before we had the cafes, and I used to make my family like mugs for the holidays, and the little grumpy face had like he was giving everyone the middle finger.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Okay. Your brother, your brother would design it to do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

We took the arms off, middle fingers have gone, make it more accessible, you know, a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 2:45

And where did the name come from? Because you you you don't think that you want people to associate a local coffee shop with grumpiness.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

It did come from an experience um at uh another coffee shop. It wasn't really a specially coffee shop, but just a general coffee shop, just bad service. And I'm like, this place should be called happy grumpy. So it was kind of a joke at first, but that we thought it was, oh, just kind of fun. And you know, before coffee, you need your coffee or you're gonna grumpy in the morning without your coffee. It can be whatever you want it to be, but we wanted something to be relatable to anyone, no matter where you're from, just like your little friend or your grumpy partner or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 3:25

And you were not in coffee, you were what were you doing before? Because you you were born in Germany.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

So uh moved to the States when I was eight years old. Okay. But I worked in restaurants, galleries, offices.

SPEAKER_07 3:40

So what were you doing right before?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Right before I was working in an office. So I was going on a lot of coffee breaks, cutting more than I should have been.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

But you what were you the person that people were sending on coffee drinks, or you were just you need to take coffee?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Well, I was actually an executive assistant at Cumberland I jobs, so yes, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

So you were that person? Okay. Um where would you go to get coffee? Just like look.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

I mean, yeah, it was in Midtown, so wherever, it was terrible. But um, at that time I lived in Williamsburg, so in the mornings I would go to Gimme Coffee. Garmer. So that was one of my and I was like, wow, this place's so great. You know, they do latte art.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

You didn't know the name. I didn't know the name. I was yeah, um, but that was Rosetta. Yeah. Just to clarify for everybody, it's called a it's called a Rosetta.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

But yeah, that was one place where I'd go up before work.

unknown 4:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

I've been to the Gimme in was it the Eastville, just I think that they are still maybe in Ithaca, but yeah, I haven't seen Gimme anywhere recently. Um, so you are getting people coffee.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

But I mean, I loved coffee from the beginning anyway. I have always I grew up in Jersey, we go to the diners after hours, my friends uh, you know, drink coffee. My dad had a coffee subscription. I'm not gonna name it, it was not great, but I thought it was really cool. And I thought like what did that look like? Yeah, I just bad. It was like pre-grand, you get a box and a nail. And uh, you know, I thought good coffee was like strong coffee, so I put like extra coffee in my coffee to make it good. Um, yeah, so there's a lot to learn, but I always loved coffee.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

So how did you know that you wanted to work in good coffee? Like how like the coffee you were drinking growing up, and I I would imagine that's why most people, I think, when they go to all the big names, they think that's good because that's what they know, that's what they associate with, like the smell and all of that stuff. But but it's different. Our the coffee that we roast, I think is is slightly different. I think it's a little bit more artisanal. Um, did you want it just because you wanted to work in a product that you were proud to stand by?

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Yeah, I thought it was, I mean, I was like, how hard could it be to give someone something that tastes good, looks nice, and people are nice to you? Obviously, we all know it's like a it's hard to keep that going. I think that was just it. I tasted coffee that they thought, wow, this is special, this is good.

SPEAKER_05 6:00

Where'd you taste that?

SPEAKER_02 6:01

I would say it was probably get me. You know, but my family, we have family in since I grew up in Doreen, we have family in England, all over Gibraltar, all different places. So we've had different styles of coffee. I was aware of different styles of coffee, as some things like that. But I think that was the one place where I thought the braces like were doing some sort of craft and it's looked and tasted better. Maybe it was because it looked so nice. I thought it tasted better, which is like you know, a thing now. Yeah, I guess I guess that might have must have been it.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

Because I think uh and you were using what was the the brewer, the like the reverse French press. What was that called?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Oh yeah, we had what was that Starbucks bought? Right. We well, we started with um Clover.

SPEAKER_07 6:44

Clover, clover.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah, clover. Well, we started with espresso and batch brew in our first location. Our second location, we just had espresso and then brewed by the cup, which was on the clover.

SPEAKER_07 6:54

Was that the one in Chelsea?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yeah, that was the one in Chelsea. So that way where we could have a different menu of all different coffee. And so that was fun. Um, I was working the bar at that time.

SPEAKER_05 7:03

Uh where in Chelsea in Chelsea. Okay, and you had just the two. How did you find the first space?

SPEAKER_02 7:11

The first space I walked past it. I lived in Green Queen. I was just walking around looking for spaces. I'm calling people, you know, that was a time when people would pick you up and drive you around in their cars to look at spaces. Um one was really getting back to me. And that space I happened to walk by when the landlord was in there, and he was actually making it to like a weird big apartment.

SPEAKER_05 7:31

But but you, when you were looking, you knew that this was something that you wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yes, I wanted to I always want to start a business. Even when I was little, I used to pretend that I had a business. I tried to sell my brother's stuff.

SPEAKER_05 7:41

What did you try to sell your brother?

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Um, he actually bought something for me once he brought a how to draw bears book.

unknown 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

He is an artist now, so you know, I create a couple of things.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Do you take full credit for him?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, I used to set up little shops and try to I don't know what it was. That's what I did.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

Yeah, well, I I had I had a table and I would draw whatever, and then I would for anyone my parents would invite over, I'd be like, you have to buy what still and I would sell I would sell baseball cards on the street.

SPEAKER_07 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Yeah. Whatever I could do, I I like I had that same mentality.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, I don't know what it was. Anyone like little flowers, like whatever we have on eggs and stuff like that. But I was wanted to sell with the chill-ups.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

Yeah, and this was in Jersey.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah, and Pennsylvania. Oh, we we moved around a lot, but um, yeah, so I guess that was it. I just, you know, working in an office was good because some of the stuff I do now, I've I think of, you know, I need that office experience, but I just wanted to get out and do something on my own.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

And you opened it with your partner, yes, who is also your business partner. Um does he is he full-time like in in co- Yeah, there was a while where he was doing other stuff as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Um and he, you know, he does some side projects, but mostly full-time to say. We kind of separated our roles. Well, did you we worked at the cafe together?

SPEAKER_07 9:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Got in the bar.

SPEAKER_07 9:06

Okay, how was that?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

It was okay. He's better at latte marriage.

SPEAKER_07 9:08

Okay. Are you okay at latte? I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

I don't I haven't made I do stuff at home a little bit. Sleep running a bike though, but you know, I what do you have at home?

SPEAKER_07 9:18

Come she's got it all.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Well, I I I did have a uh the lamerizoco, but I had to bring it back to work for one of our advanced.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Now I have the tech number.

SPEAKER_05 9:27

Okay. I I was never a big espresso guy. I like drip, so I'll make uh V60 in the morning. Okay, so that's so what was Chris? What was his experience before doing this?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Well, Chris and I actually met at we also he worked in an office, he worked in banking. Um he's from Australia, so send a bunch of stuff, threw up on the dairy farm, some you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

We all have all different uh backgrounds, but we love coffee, and that's all I remember it was the first vacation I took, probably in 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

So I went in 2018. Went to Australia, I was gonna go for two weeks. And I walked in, and the guy behind the counter just starts talking to me about like I thought, oh, we're like a 90.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

Like he starts talking about the scores. I was like, if I were anyone else, I would imagine people don't know, but I guess people know about scores. And I was just so fascinated by that. And that just for me, it was just a reminder of like, oh, the culture is a little bit, a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

You think about this new uh X to Q thing and just took a class if you want to go the Well the the like the new version and XQ? Were the UMS supposed to score and now you're just supposed to.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

Well, if we're gonna talk about the SCA, we can probably it'll be a long conversation, and I don't know that it's gonna be one worth having. I have very strong opinions about it, which I won't go into today.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Well, it's good to for people to know the you know, behind coffee, like we keep up with our education. You have there's like so much going on behind the scenes and like different regulations, things to learn.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

Well, first up first, I don't think they're regulations. Right? I mean, I I think that there are certain like there's certain qualities and there are defect, all of that stuff, that stuff still exists and will always exist, and that has an impact on the level of quality. But I think when it comes to everything else, it's not that subjective, but it can't be. So I think especially with what happened with the queue being purchased the way that it was like and and now it's I again I have I have opinions.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Okay, that could be a different podcast.

SPEAKER_05 11:48

It can be a different podcast.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah, a different regulation of like green coffee. There's so many just oh well, there's so many things that go into like getting the coffee to the customer that sometimes I think is a little lost.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

Well, I I think it's very lost. I think that most people don't really have an understanding as to how it goes from being on a tree into being in their cup of coffee. I'm worried. And it it's it is it will never not fascinate me.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:19

And it I will never understand how it's not that much more expensive than it actually is.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

It takes so much work and it's is a precious, you know, precious thing.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Do you go off? Do you go to Argent often or not?

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Since the pan pandemic, um, you know, I don't I think once you start to get to know who you're buying from, it's not really that necessary. You can check in with them through like WhatsApp. Really, I mean it's fun and you take pictures and it's great for social media, but I think realistically, if you know them, they're doing a good job. It's what am I gonna add to that? You know. So I I I find that I'd rather just be in communication with like video calls and fans add as like taking less time. They're you know, they're not spending as much money or time posting.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

They're they're busy too.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

So what does it take to build that? What do you think it's taken to build that level of trust over the years? Because you I mean, you've been sourcing for 17 years.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Right. Yeah, just being trying to be transparent and um consistent comes with challenges, you know, with the climate, people having different availability, the copies, their production changing, different challenges in their lives, different challenges on our ends. So it's just a up and down, but just kind of telling people how things are and just being honest, I guess. It's very abstract.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

No, uh well, look, I I think everyone is looking for a level of transparency and honesty. Do you pass that message along to the customers? Do you think that they care? Do you want them to care more than you think they actually?

SPEAKER_02 13:53

I think this is a challenge for specialty coffee. Like, how do you present information on to customers in such a quick transaction without being putting out pictures of like you picking cherries or something on the wall? So there's a and also these days, people kind of just want stuff that's like fun, more approachable, stuff they can take pictures of, uh, but still they know that they're spending the money and there's something behind it that they, you know, they really feel like engage they're engaging with your brand or their your company on they trust you. So there's there's so much there's so much going on. It's it's hard to get all the information out there. We have information on the bags and on the website, but really it's like such a tiny amount of time that you have for the brista to share the information. Sometimes the bristas are new, they're learning information too. So it's an ongoing thing.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

Yeah. So uh you have how many? There's 11.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

And you have a few that are in uh Whole Foods?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yes, we have three coffee bars.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

How how did that come about? And did they approach you? Did you approach them?

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah, they approached us, be seller, beans, and whole foods. So um they had a they're building out a new store and they wanted someone to be in charge of the coffee bar there. Some stores they have their own coffee bars, but so they asked us.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

Has that been has that been fruitful for you?

SPEAKER_02 15:13

I mean, I think it's it's nice to be able to have a presence and you reach, you know, people that you might not reach otherwise look at our stores. So I think that any any way to expand um how many people like see our brand or taste our coffee, it's it's good for me. So okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:32

And you have one in Florida.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah, in Coral Gables. Okay. And we're opening the segment in Florida and Winnowed.

SPEAKER_07 15:38

Okay. Um, how did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 15:41

We've been looking to expand outside of New York City for a while, and we kept going to Miami seemed like I know it sounds like it's not logical, but it was easy to get to. A lot of here people go there back and forth. Um and Coral Gables seemed like a good spot, walkable. Uh I had a friend that lives there, my best friend when I was little, uh, just found a little space. It took a while. And then our manager, one of our managers up here, her family was from there, so she moved back there to manage.

SPEAKER_07 16:07

She's still managing.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

She's she's moved on. She actually owns her own shop now in Chicago, but uh, we haven't even managed it, it's really good. But okay. Let's have that started.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Has that been hard for you, like trust-wise, or like overseeing? How often do you go down there?

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Probably once a month, once every two months. So um, I think the more you know, when you have one store, you kind of micromanage, but as you expand, as you probably know you there's certain things you just have to let go of. And I think it's better because you end up seeing the big picture and like trying to fix things. Um kind of sort of like setting up guidelines for yourself and uh not being too overly considered little things here and there. I mean you have to you have to be responsive, but you can't if there's like a appealing paint on the walls at one store, it's like you know, I I can't gonna be able to get to that right away. Um, maybe as I would have if we had one store.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Um but I think it's better than coffee.

SPEAKER_05 17:04

Do you uh But if you do have chipping paint on a wall at a store, do you find that you that your staff wants those things taken care of? Like they want to feel like they're still being looked after. Like I I would imagine you wouldn't let an espresso machine be down for No, it's I mean, we are responsible, we take care of things, but you can't obsess over it.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

You have to have, you know, you have to set priorities and you have to establish if something happens, a espresso machine goes down, the manager has to let us know, and then we contact the tech. And there's like so you put systems in place. Whereas if you have one store, I think you're you're always doing everything yourself. But if you you have to if you have more than one store, you step back a little. You have to like put system in place and things get done.

SPEAKER_06 17:51

Yeah, well, even I but I think even with systems, like stuff still just doesn't get done because you're then assuming that they're gonna be like following through on the systems that you have placed.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, sometimes you know we there's always gonna be a list of things in progress. I mean, we try to check in with our managers and have we have use Slack. What do you guys do?

SPEAKER_05 18:14

We uh what do we use? Um so we you I we use a lot of email. We started using Basecamp a little bit more, which has been good. That's more it's better for projects, okay for projects, but uh we have like at a maintenance WhatsApp thread.

SPEAKER_07 18:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:33

So we're always, you know, FL. We have all these forms that they'll fill out and then everything gets put on all these spreadsheets. So there's, you know, I I think we're a lot more hands-on. I I feel like you and I are very similar when it comes to like we're we're pretty hands-on our business. Um, as opposed to other people. I've like Jonathan for Jang Jong. Like is it's like it's very different. No, he's not as hands-on, but like if he reads a matter of you.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I don't either read usually.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Uh, but yes, okay, it's true. This morning I got a message on Slack that one of the grinders was broken, tried to troubleshoot, and it's working out fine. But yeah, it's an ongoing thing. But I'm just I'm not gonna get super stressed about it because I've there's so many things that happen every day.

SPEAKER_05 19:16

With you know, yeah, but I think that's the beauty of you being you doing what you've been doing for such a long time because you you know that it will ultimately resolve itself.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

And it's just coffee, everybody.

SPEAKER_05 19:30

It's well uh no, I mean but it's super important. It is super important.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

But it you know, at the end of the day, you're giving if you give you trying to give people a good coffee, it's just have to remember that keep things in perspective.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

I I appreciate that. What what made you so was it a harder jump from one to two or from two to three, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

I well, taking the jump to two is hard because you're like, oh, am I gonna do this? You know, you have this idea of this what my one little shop, am I gonna expand and then start this whole thing going? So I think deciding to open a second store is like the the hardest part. Because then you're like on this trajectory of guests, we're doing this, and it's just me and Chris. Um, we don't have outside people. Okay. So it's just been sort of and you say outside people. Like we don't have outside investors, you were just putting money back into the business, expanding as as much as we can, or within our limits, and just so it is you're adding, obviously, it's it's a little stressful when you're doing that. So when you make the decision to go to one to two, you're thinking, okay, we'll increase our volumes and get our our name out there more. So that was a opening Chelsea was a great decision because that that neighborhood, they were really positive and thesiascal at that time. I love that story. Yeah, they they knocked it down. It was a nice story.

SPEAKER_08 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:57

But um When did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 21:01

It's not that long ago.

SPEAKER_05 21:02

Okay. Um well, but I I think also to your point, uh I I think every decision is even more critical as far as open and location because it's you're putting everything back into that, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Yeah, but if you're here uh you have to kind of know. I don't know, people talk about how do you know where to open. I think you have to just be aware of your surroundings. You have to sort of live in those spaces. I know we're in Coral Gables, but we knew people there. We walked around, we went a lot. We didn't just make a quick decision. So I think I'm yeah off the rails there on that.

unknown 21:39

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

Have you had to close any?

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yeah, we closed our Nalia location after the pandemic. Um, we closed market line, but the market closed. And then we had uh sort of a pop-up in South Miami where it's like inside a sort of a gym. So that was a temporary situation, but that gym posed and we closed that space. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:59

Now Have you been presented with an opportunity to take on outside cap?

SPEAKER_02 22:06

You've talked to people over the years. It's not something, you know, it's it's I've opened the different stuff. I'd love to see the brand like expand across the country internationally. I'd love to go in one day and just get a coffee and well.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

Would you though?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:23

No, I mean just like go in and get a copy, a cup of coffee, and not have any sort of reaction.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

I would be like proud if if if we're, you know.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

Well, right. But let's say you go in and at the service that you get is like, oh my God, how is this happening to me right now? Has that ever happened to you in the fact?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Like gone into one of our swords and bad service?

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Well, I don't think our breeze is gonna give me bad service because they're well, yeah, but but you've I'm sure you've gone in and seen things that look I might have seen things where I would have, you know, I might think, you know, I need to talk to that person about whatever, however, they responded.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Maybe we're out of something.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

And instead of being like, no, we don't have that, offering a different suggestion. Or, you know, but those are things I'll do after, not rate at the moment.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

Do you do you have a favorite location?

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 23:16

Okay, where is it?

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Near Seward Park. But I'm most proud of our it's a rock center location.

SPEAKER_07 23:22

Okay. Is that the highest volume?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Probably Grand Central.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

Or Grand Central, yeah. I do you recently renew that? I think you did, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yes. And I don't know if you've seen the news, but I know they're gonna build that. They're like tearing down that hyatt and they're gonna build stuff. I know that was in the news years ago. Across across the street or above, it's above, so they're gonna totally renovate credit central. So I'm not sure what the future is gonna be like for um any of the swords in that passage away or in that area, but and it was a recent because I remember seeing when I was talking to Jonathan about Grand Central.

SPEAKER_05 23:56

I mean, years ago I got the request, you know, the RFB request and all that. I got the same with you. I think I emailed you and I was like, hey, are you are you I was just curious? Uh because that's something that they just do.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

How is that every five years?

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Everyone These are things that I don't know. But because Chris do with this? No, I would just have to look it up. I just don't retain this, you know, after years of coffee. I just my mind is just on so many different things. I have to look things up.

SPEAKER_07 24:24

Well, so in my Google calendar. What are you what are you focusing on these days?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

I go to our roaster every day and do a lot of customer service stuff, agree coffee buying, what's customer service stuff?

SPEAKER_07 24:35

What do you know?

SPEAKER_02 24:36

You know, people email, they need to ask a question about special orders or different things like that. I'll do that mostly. We have a pretty small team.

SPEAKER_07 24:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

So I do a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_07 24:47

How many total in the team?

SPEAKER_02 24:50

About 60, I guess. Across all the stores in the rosary.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

And you were saying before you do the social media. How's that?

SPEAKER_02 24:58

I could I could be better. I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_05 25:00

Oh, it could always be better.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Um we have a few people in the office that I think have like good. I think we've talked about different about different like drinks and different things going on. And I think, you know, they're like newer to the newer to coffee and they have different ideas and they go to different stories and come up with uh ideas I try to listen to. So I think it's uh I like to be collaborative and just take what our team says seriously and try to make them feel like part of it. That's important because I've been doing this for whatever, 20 plus years. And obviously when we started, it was triple ristretto's like small coffee, you know, a different scene. Um which leads me to they want me to get someone else to do social media. That's what I was getting at.

SPEAKER_07 25:50

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Is there so you know an untapped, untapped uh customer base out there that we're not changing?

SPEAKER_05 25:58

So full of a different generation.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah, different generation, just being able to be more consistent, promote stuff in like in the time. Not you know, I'm very particular, I'll plan stuff out. I think it's good to have someone who's more spontaneous. So then at some point it'll be someone else doing it.

SPEAKER_05 26:17

Um if you weren't doing this, what would you be doing? Like, I mean not if you weren't doing coffee.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Nina, I love working coffee. I love drinking coffee, like talking to the producers, working with the grocery. Um I love animals, so I would actually, if I wasn't doing this, I would like to have an animal rescue.

SPEAKER_07 26:38

Okay. Like all animals, or are you vegan?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I'm vegetarian.

SPEAKER_07 26:42

You're vegetarian.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Um I love all animals, but I am partial to guess dogs because I've been around them the most. But you know, that's probably what I would like to do.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

Yeah, I think for me, um, the biggest and the dream is to have uh thought rescue.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Oh, for we have like a retired coffee old thought rescue.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

Um that's totally the dream. And then there there are definitely times when I am super stressed, super stressed out with this on a day-to-day basis where I think, let me just let me get out, let me just get out and open up a little coffee shop slash dog park. And that would be the best thing because of the world. Just one little thing that I'm there every day.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Close when you want vacation. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

But I probably wouldn't take many vacations. I would just, I don't know, I like hanging out dogs.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

I think that, you know, I also look back and think, wouldn't it be nice to have just one little cute spot? Um, because it is no a different different thing when you start hiring people, people are relying on you. Every decision you make has ramifications for your whole team.

SPEAKER_05 28:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

So it's that was your fault. Responsibility.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Is it what did you think in the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 28:06

I don't think we think we just keep going and drinking coffee and just keep like working. I mean, I I like working hard and I've always wanted to be successful and just give people a good product, a good experience and good jobs and was it a feeling like you needed to do more as that?

SPEAKER_05 28:28

Because there there had to be a point where you thought we need to open a cyclone. Right?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Well, you've been when we opened in Greenpoint, it was pretty slow in the beginning.

SPEAKER_08 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Um, and we were, you know, we thought we had a good idea and a good brand. And we were we thought our coffee tasted good. So we thought like we need to try something different. Like we believed in it, we wanted to grow. It was either like close it or expand. So we picked expand.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

That I I feel like that's kind of rare where it's like either shut down because it's not working or just grow because we have to.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

I feel like you have to take risk. Like you, I'm sure you I you take risks as a business owner. Well, of course.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

So but most most people who open a coffee shop failed. Right? No, no, no. No, it's the truth. It's it's like, oh look, look, you you've passed that statistic. You're far past the well, yeah, for sure, but but then they close. Like you've you've been around for 20 plus years.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I guess if there's like some romantic ideal of open coffee shop.

SPEAKER_05 29:42

No, I know. And it's yeah, but it's you're living someone else's dream, right? When you when you open a coffee shop, it may not feel like it right now. I mean, especially when it's challenging.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

No, but uh, yes. I think people don't know what goes into it. Every day something will surprise you, good or a bad. And you know, it some things just uh shocked me.

SPEAKER_07 30:05

What's shocked?

SPEAKER_02 30:07

I don't you know, just there's been positive things that have shocked me and negative things just all right.

SPEAKER_06 30:13

Give me a positive and a negative thing that shocked you.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Positive, let's say, I mean, we talked about Grand Central, like we started a petition because we wanted to see like have support of um our customers and put that in our RFP to show Grand Central, you know, we want to stay here. We want to start support. We got great support that was really like surprising and um not surprising, but that was really touching and it meant a lot. You know, there's been times where maybe something's negative has happened in a shop and it's just people have been very nasty, you know what it's like online. We're I submit it, we're read of views, but I I have received some nasty emails in the past. So we just go through up and down, like ups and downs as coffee shop owners. You just have to take it all and like get up the next day and and try to be positive and set a good example, I think, for people and just be. I like to try to be Chris says I'm too like namaste. I like to just be.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

Can you be too namaste? I feel like you can't be. I feel that's like that's a dream.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

You'd have to have like an inner peace and just handle stuff in your mind. Because if you physically react to all the challenges of your life, and I mean this is for everything. You just it's is you're not helping the situation, you're just hurting yourself. So I have a I try to keep that mindset with work when things are if things are challenging, just try to go through what steps you need to make it work, no, and just try not stress yourself out.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Yeah. Um you you strike me as someone who's very balanced.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Um yeah, some of you know, I have been known to like kick a printer in my time, but far from apart from that IS base on people, yeah. I get um yeah, I try to be calm. Yeah, but I think as business owners, you have to like I don't know if you've like exercise, I'm sure you do, like either go to the gym or walk or whatever. I think it's very important uh to take a step away, like you said, and just do some physical activity.

SPEAKER_07 32:20

When was the last time you went on vacation? Do you go on there?

SPEAKER_02 32:24

No, not really. Well, we have the dogs also. Um so Chris and I spent vacations. Um you know, I I did go to visit my cousins actually in Nepal. I'm gonna need this here for weeks. Okay. It was a whirlwinds, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

So yeah, no, it's really important. I think the I I still get I still get worked up with now. And but I I feel very fortunate that I have a business partner. I pick up my phone and I can just met. I think it's really important. Do you uh do you I mean, do you have that with Chris?

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, it's really I mean we talk about work, but it's also since we're partners, it's also harder because you don't want to like your whole life is just talking about work. So right. Um but you know, there's a few other business owners that I talk to. Um, a friend of mine knows owns a bubble tea shop and someone else owns a bakery. So you kind of forget there's people out there going through similar things and they might have resources that can help you. So sometimes we just get as business owners, I don't know if this podcast is talking to business owners or soon-to-be business owners, but I feel like you get in your own little space and you you forget there is a community out there. So thanks for inviting me on this. Actually, you know, it's a reminder, people are doing similar things or going through the same stuff. Maybe you can share, hey, I got a new insurance broker that's got really good rates or just random things that might really help the other person or something new technique, you know, we're using this app for something that's really helping the staff out.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

So um well, who's who's been like instrumental when it comes to is it or is that just the people that you for constantly connect to it? Like your friends who all idol on the other.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, I'd say it's just you know, just a few if people that maybe own other small businesses and um there's a someone I don't that has a a pastry place and they do classes, so sometimes you know that we'll just be texting each other little silly complaints or child, you know, questions, or uh you just have to keep keep in touch with other people that kind of know what's going on because I think uh it could be a little money like I want to bring this to No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 34:36

It's well it's it's it's sincere. I appreciate it. Because I'm there are there are times where I will see an email that comes through and it's just how do people walk through the world and complain about like these kinds of things? It's just um, you know, for for a while there was because we sell we sell coffee online, right? And people can get a five-pound bague of coffee.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

We do also how many pounds is in that five count back? Fun pounds? No, I know. I'm just kidding. Those are the email. Those are the emails that I get.

SPEAKER_05 35:13

So the e some of the emails that we get are, you know, the coffee smelled weird when I when I got it. And uh, you know, I I have to run it past Paul and say, is this person just looking for another for us to just send them another five-pound bag of coffee?

SPEAKER_02 35:33

It's it's hard sometimes not to get like you get your defenses up and automatically you think the person is trying to like scam me. It's it is hard. It's hard. You get a little bit more. It's generally the case.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

I do.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

I know you have to like just take a step, a pause before you answer that email.

SPEAKER_05 35:49

Oh no, a hundred percent. Look, I I've tattooed the word pause on my wrist so that I that I pause. Uh but that said, what I found is maybe this will be helpful. We've asked them to send it back.

SPEAKER_07 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:06

So I will send them a return, I will send them a label because half the time I feel like they're just not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_07 36:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:12

So yeah, but sometimes they do it, you know, and it's it's just truly amazing. We we try it, we taste it, and it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Usually it's their like the water's not hot enough, or if they didn't grind it, but you know, it's there's always gonna be something.

SPEAKER_05 36:26

Yeah, but you can't, yeah, you don't wanna you have to make them feel dancing and well that's that's that's the challenge and the goal. Um is how do you how do you do that number one in your stores, but also like at home?

SPEAKER_02 36:42

It's uh it's an ongoing, yeah. It's well, it depends on your personality. That's why I think it's good to have, I don't know if if you're doing the dealing with those emails, you have the same issue I do. We need a person, a customer service representative right or AI to help us this.

SPEAKER_07 36:56

Let's I I want to talk about can we talk about AI? Yeah, I love to talk about that.

SPEAKER_05 37:01

What what do you use it for? How how are you using how is it making your life easier? How's it making your job maybe better or just a little bit easier for you to focus on some of the things that you do?

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah. I just went to a five-hour conference on AI in on Coral Gables, actually. Um I'm I was almost in tears the first time I used Claude to help me like just make a spreadsheet with an information that I put in because it's so it's just so helpful to get organized.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Um that's what I use it for mostly. To I'll have some information about maybe I need to set up a quote for an event and I have all these, you know, past quotes and new information on where it's gonna be. And so I'll put it in and just have a nice looking quote made funny. Or I'll be comparing sales versus like labor costs. Um, so I use I use the AI through our coin of sales system. I use quad for like help with maybe different menu layouts, things like that. I just think it's great to use as uh a tool for organizing. Um, and I'm also excited to use, I forget the name of a bit, but I need to get my desktop organized on my side, use these tools to organize on desktop. I think as a business owner, it's just a great resource. Um, and I guess I sort of use it as an assist, like an office assistant in a way. And um, I don't know enough about it, but there's so many different layers I would like to use things to plan our how we talked about social media plan, content calendar, things like that. So I'm just excited for the future of that. I know people are uh resistant to it, and it's some people are nervous, but I think you can use it for small business owners, you can really use it to support as a support tool and knowledge to just information quickly.

SPEAKER_05 38:58

Yeah, we uh I mean we get I'm sure you're the same. Like you get emails from God now salary people on a regular basis, like, oh, I yeah, I I I I scrubbed your website and they could tell you all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

I just those are spam.

SPEAKER_06 39:13

So well, so spam now first it's block spam, and then that's that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_05 39:19

But you'd have to check your spam every day because sometimes there's some real emons and they're I have I don't remember the last time I checked my spam every but that I found something productive every day. Do you is that something you'd recommend?

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah, there have been times What have you found? Like, you know, advice to do stuff for like press and things like that and then spam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

I guess I'm gonna start looking and like it's delete, yeah. Um but with my customer, it's customer stuff. You you you should check it.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

I and now I will. I appreciate the insight. Um, but yeah, we I've I don't want to say become obsessed with it because I I I think that would be the wrong word for it. But it's it's been super intriguing. And what I've been able to do is we I built basically a dashboard that we can take our uh we can take an Excel spreadsheet that has our PL and the you know uh revenue for a specific store and the cost of goods, and then just like the percentage of the breakdown of the cost of goods for for each you know item, like drip, espresso. And we can import it into this uh dashboard, and then it literally, I mean, it breaks everything down and even like we've given it the information to break it down hour by hour, like how many tickets we have per hour. But what I think is so great about it is that it enables our team to have a much better understanding of how they can do their job better and easier.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:02

Right. Because if I'm just saying, hey, you know, revenue needs to come up.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

No, that's a really good point. People aren't lit, they're like, oh, obviously you're gonna keep saying that, but they'll see yes, I think that's a great weave set to share too. I think it's really important, though, because it's not based on, oh, the owner is bugging me to like try to do this or they're complaining about this. It's actually right there, Asa's assistance.

SPEAKER_05 41:23

Well, we've I mean, I've sat down, we we have this like playbook in this neighborhood, we call it the neighborhood playbook. And uh, and yeah, there's all these ways to tackle business, increase revenue, like within the four walls of the store, right in front of the store, and then with outreach. And so what's been great is me being able to sit down with the team, with the the person that runs that store and be able to say, uh, you know, hey, let's try this. What do you think about this? I mean, they're they're using chalk to draw hopscotch in front of the store to like get people to be doing hops, stuff like that. Yeah, but it's it's ways we have so we have library books at every store. Yeah. We have a like a little library cart, and now we're just putting it out in front of the store because it's just I don't think we can use it.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, but they're yeah, a little like take a book, leave a book, take a book. Yeah, we like the cart's a good idea, though. That's nice.

SPEAKER_05 42:20

Yeah, yeah. You can take it, go for it. Um, but yeah, it's it's whatever we can do to help them do their work better. Yeah, because I I think I mean look, I when I worked in an office, because I I worked in an office for three years, I didn't like it, but I still wanted to do a good job.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:43

And I think I I would still like to believe that people want to do a good job. Whatever it is that they're doing, right? What's it saying? Anything worth doing is worth doing well, I think. So I think it's the opposite too. But I I have this genuine genuine belief that the the people that work for us want to do a good job. And the people that don't, they don't end up sticking around for for that long. Um, but it's just about figuring out who wants to stay and helping them grow and build themselves. Do you have like do you have any success stories where you've had someone come in and just like from being a cashier and working all their way, you know, their way up to being a store manager or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Yeah. I mean, uh, I'd say we've had a few people that have moved up from barista. Some of them have moved on. We had two people move on and open their own coffee shops, which I thought was actually pretty cool. Yeah. Um, one person that works with Michael So for me. Um, one of them is, yeah. The other person, yeah, they're roasting, I think they're on, but the office of one person is um, thankfully. Um yeah, we've had one person that I just think of now. She was a store manager. Well, Borisa store manager, and then she managed a f all the whole food stores, and now she's doing like retail managing sort of the, you know, making sure things are out for sale, the correct prices, weren't us for events. So she's moved off into that role, which is really um she's really indispensable to me right now. Um and just just seeing the people who you can kind of tell they just have they're just more interested or they present things to you in a different way or they're thoughtful and they talk with their team members in a respectful, nice way and they're positive with customers and they care about like presentation and about do you feed off. So yeah, I think there's those people they kind of they shine through and well yeah and we have like tiers, brisa tiers. So there's opportunities for people to do more and get more money and advance, but it's up to them. Like we try to put the tools there.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Has there ever been something that completely backfired from a staffing standpoint?

SPEAKER_02 44:54

I think we have had times in the past where we have maybe overstaffed or had things that we could have had um you know a spreadsheet or a database uh maybe like organizing things for wholesale customers for example where in the past we might have had a few too many people working in different um what do you call it like different areas of the business and they weren't bringing in enough money to support that area. And so we have made some mistake where maybe hiring too many people for something and just not being able to afford it and then realizing okay well it could be maybe one person and like more of an internal organization that we need to do and just keep better records and oh I don't know if that answers the question. But I think that's been a learning process. I think the pandemic happening really made everyone think about staffing and um being very mindful of just costs and everything because that was such a stressful time for businesses.

SPEAKER_05 45:59

How how did you handle all of that? I mean you had a close for a couple months yeah and we had we kept our roastery open which is great.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

But as we were building back just thinking about like what do we need um what can we what can we streamline you know is is D2C a big heart of your business don't you do a lot of online store yeah we have um so that's another thing I do do the online store farm that is something that we can expand but it's yeah it's something we do a lot of and we have customers all over the country. Do you have is it people just buying bags or do you have wholesale that yeah we have wholesale over the countr all over the country and also just you know customers buying bags whether they came to visit and then they buy it after they leave or they used to live here and they move this is that how how is wholesale outside of like the city? Like I do do you have to do repairs do you have to do like are those other things that you're like usually like self-sufficient um you know once in a while we've had done training maybe people have gone there to train or they've come visit us for training but that Lily is like a what am I trying to say? It's like a case by case is what I'm trying to say basis. So like we don't have a blanket like this is what our wholesale program is really is depending on what they need and what we can offer and we're pretty open with what some people just want the copy. They want ideas some people want training they want constant help with tech and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 47:28

So really do you tell them like is that something that you do or no like if someone's like I I need a technician. Yeah it depends on the customer but yeah we'll not we'll help yeah uh have you ever hit a point where you've felt just so exhausted where you are considering like just drawing in the towel was there ever a point where you thought to draw a towel do you feel like that is a little bit I feel like that is no of course it is I mean I I would be lying if I said I did there I I would say on numerous occasions I was like I I don't know how much longer I could do this.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Sometimes yeah you're trying like we all have stuff we're working on right like whether it's like maybe we need to open a new store and it's challenging or we're trying to refinance something or we're trying to hire for something or whatever it is or restructure and yeah you keep trying and trying and maybe things don't work and yes there's definitely times when you're like oh just put what are you gonna do it just leave everything.

SPEAKER_05 48:31

Well I but I think I to that to that point I but you have a partner I've I've a business partner and there are definitely times where I I think even if I even if I wanted I was so unhappy that I just couldn't leave because like how could I possibly leave and how could I leave someone else exactly hanging?

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Yes you have a responsibility I have a responsibility but I think sometimes my happiness gets um get gets put into second into second or third place because you know like it's uh you gotta suffer through it yeah don't you I know I don't like to think too much about my happiness yeah but it's you just enjoy your cup of coffee you know and just just keep working okay yeah is that a directive just keep your head down drink your coffee and shut the fuck up keyboard then it's life you know you have to find like little moments of like joy and happiness every the yeah and everything people it's all relative. We could be doing miss things look really bad we could do something else it's just really and things come up with protein obviously all of our all of us have like you know maybe we have aging parents or other stuff going on at our age or whatever it is you're dealing with nobody's and as a business owner no one's gonna ask you how you're feeling how are you doing like it's all about giving how are you feeling how are you feeling today? Are you okay? Um but it's all about giving really I mean well but that's that's the meant like that's why I think we got into it. You gotta go to acupuncture is what you have to do.

SPEAKER_05 50:18

I go to a chiropractor who I who I love. But I think people who do what we do who get into it who are in hospitality are very service like that's my love language that that is how I show any sort of care and affection is I just do stuff right yeah I don't have an expectation of someone doing stuff for me but I love to be of service. And so yeah and that's why a lot of times my that comes first it's it is it can be during this and it's exhausting but it's exhausting. Especially too I think our industry it's very thankless very very thankless. I think there's an expectation right that people just show up do the job they serve a customer a cup of coffee and you know I I say we say to our team all the time it's like if we have lids out on the condensation right nobody's gonna say oh my God thank you thank you for having a fully stocked condensation of lids and sugars and straws but if you don't yeah they're like hey we're the lids right so there they're that's why the job itself is is really really thankless. I think there's a lot that gets taken for granted and that's I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I think when I go into a place anywhere I have a level of expectations that all of my needs are going to be met. Yeah um and I don't really like I don't know where I'm going with any of this but I think it's just really as a business owner sometimes like how I feel about certain things just doesn't matter. I just have to show up and and do the job.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Yeah but your your knowledge and perspective you have so much well you can see things other people don't because they don't know what goes on behind the scenes I think that's less a gift like you can't you can't go into a restaurant and not be like appreciated Mr.

SPEAKER_05 52:16

That is correct usually well whoa yeah eating eating at restaurants going to coffee shops staying in hotels have all been ruined for me because it's true because you're like thinking oh this person needs this or this is this way yeah I was in oh where was I I was at a coffee fest at Chicago and we went to I don't know some vegetarian I'm vegetarian um Paul's not but he was and so we went to this vegetarian place and the girl who was working behind the counter was so good was so I mean she was like everything that I would want right from an employee behind the counter I said hey I said I know we're in Chicago however if you ever decide to move to New York City call that was nice yeah what if she thought you were she she thought it was probably crazy yeah she's like this weird guy just but it's weird to give me his card but like that is that's how much I value service and I'm always I'm always I can tell the person's like genuine too now yeah it's rare though it's hard it's a because you know it's being a barista you get burnt out you're just constantly getting these like why don't we have lids on the thing right from everybody every day so but I think too what people take for granted is the fact that you have a barista who is working by the counter who is engaging how many customers like a hundred right one individual is talking to a hundred different people in the course of six hours seven hours that is so exhausting because they have to meet everyone where they're at some point not take it personally too that's the hardest part right with that rule is very challenging do you I and uh so I I would imagine because we talked a little bit about this but are you able to balance that and not take like but when do you take it personally?

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Well I don't want to be working as a breezer right now because I don't think I'd do a great job when I used to work as a breeze I would not get the best room to use on the L I think people would write specifically the owner they didn't know it was an owner they're like but I would be focused would they say you're like so unfriendly it's not a new job. Yeah it's that's that's I think I'm a little too I don't know I think Negan Brees I don't think I can do that now. It's just I would take it personally because it's like if I if I go into the stores and I've talked to some techs I talk to the customers um you know they'll say hi or they like this or that or this grease is great but so that's nice that's a pop of interaction but it's it's hard the onset because you're also dealing with other stuff. I don't think um has it been owner if you have multiple occasions you should be working the bar anywhere will make so I I love it.

SPEAKER_05 55:18

It's my favorite thing to like to look at a bar yeah well not the not the espresso machine yeah that no but I like to work the register and I'm good at it that would be like my yeah I'm I'm really good at it.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

You are a people person.

SPEAKER_05 55:31

Well see I'm super introverted oh you are yes okay so most people are very surprised to hear that because like because I can turn it on but like tonight oh I'm gonna be fried yeah Jake Shaust from talking. Oh yeah but I I love engaging people I love seeing people's reaction when they get a really good positive customer service experience which I I do believe that I'm able to deliver um so it is my I don't get to do it enough but it absolutely is my favorite thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 56:06

That's nice. So Bree says like when you're there I would yeah I wouldn't they don't like it at all.

SPEAKER_05 56:12

Well be so here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Because it's like they've set their own territory like they've got their own stuff going on and then you come in well they're on edge.

SPEAKER_05 56:20

I but but understandably so I I think I forget that I was an employee at one point in time. And I have to because I'll get feedback like I will receive feedback from store managers from district managers saying hey maybe maybe don't go into a store when you haven't eaten lunch um right but but in my head why I well like I I was so great with everybody I I brought them treats I brought them muffins or whatever it is cupcakes.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

No I like to stop by and like get a coffee and just see how rooms do we talk for to the Bruce and maybe talk to a few customers that there's no way and unl unless I really if there's if they really need me I will I'll take secrets but I'll take us.

SPEAKER_05 57:15

So who you were before you open your first shot compared to who you are today as a as a business owner like right in the first open computer to who you are today how how are they different?

SPEAKER_02 57:28

I think I'm more maybe more open minded and able to take feedback and um I think a better listening and just a little more calm in general less particular which sound might sound bad but I don't think it's bad. In this case um more knowledgeable look at all these positive things that have happened to me tired more tired um yeah but I think also more confident I guess. Yeah You know I didn't really have time to think about it. Also I think that's about just aging a little bit you just you just don't care. You just you know say what you think or okay and apathetic. No not like don't care in that way but you don't care as in like you're not guarded. You just say what you feel like you think and like are happy to talk to people about you're not gonna be maybe I need to be more careful what I say but I think and also I just I learned I've learned more about coffee and business in general and also people I didn't realize how much I'd need to learn about how people act.

SPEAKER_05 58:45

That's good I I I think the one thing for me I've gotten a better read on people which has been it's uh I've come a long way because in the beginning I thought I didn't give people the benefit of the doubt. Um I think I give them more benefit of the doubt than I do today but I also think I'm a better judge of character especially like early on when I first beat somebody um but yeah I mean doing what you've been doing for how long you've been doing it it's it has to cheat you right you have to evolve because otherwise I don't know I feel like otherwise you'd go and say I would have gone safe if I didn't evolve as a human being. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Well and I you know it is I think in this coffee and as a business owner you you really gain like so much knowledge about so many different aspects of life that you didn't even I don't know how to explain. Sometimes it's hard though if you it's harder I think to one thing is harder to socialize with just regular friends or family because they don't really understand. So I think it's that becomes a little bit that more more challenging as you get more into it.

SPEAKER_05 59:50

I um I do feel like that's changed for the negative but um I get I get really quiet when I'm like talk like when when I'm around people that don't and whether it's family or friends who don't really understand who just have a job they go in and they go home um I just kind of get a little bit reserved. Um but then also I'll like light up if they start asking me questions about just because they're so intrigued by because being a business owner is really really hard. It's it's really hard and um it's I feel like the I I feel responsible for providing jobs for so many people. And so um it makes me want to do an even better job on on a regular basis. But uh yeah no I love being able to talk about this stuff with other people that are like uh you're not you're not alone you we all feel that way no there's always and the bureaucracy in New York also is a challenge you know that's I don't know it can be but I think I mean you probably had an art in Florida did you no really I've heard New York is like fairly easy when it comes to permitting and setting up things like that. Um I mean I've talked to people who've done it elsewhere and they're like yeah this is what I these are all the hoops I've had to I just feel like the fees and things are a little bit more um egregious here. I mean the rent is a little bit outrageous too that's true. Do you think there's a trend that is a little bit overrated at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

Like all different layers of cold foam and different colors in your drink yeah we do have a special right now with cold foam but so do we know but I think that's because also is a lot for the team to make these drinks is there's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:41

So that's um do you believe in ghosts? Yes you do that's a big question I know but it's a fun answer and I'm glad that you answered yes I believe in ghosts as well I was my my apartment was actually a Bonted but that's fair enough do you live in now the one I live in now was fonting but I hired someone and she helped me oh really I listened to the Monster Cast and I was that's like terrifying a ghost or that was bad oh my gosh that's just that's yeah it was bad dog lovers ghost believers coffee shop do you uh do you do you have I I I'm gonna I know the answer to this question already before I ask it but I'm just gonna ask it anyway do you have a go-to karaoke song?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:25

I'm sure your answer is I never sing karaoke but do you have a go-to karaoke song that is the answer that's my personal thing too have you ever sung karaoke I had a a terrible band when I was in high school oh come on um but we played like toy instruments but no I don't I don't I'm in bar I don't like singing in front of people. Okay um do you do can you remember the weirdest thing in Customer said too nobly there's so many and also dream it's a compartmentalize so if it's bad or weird I just put a spirals keep going. It's just I push it down as deep as I can push it until yeah I mean one time someone asked me what the bloom time was when I was making Coreover when I worked as a barista and I just were they're trying to catch you were they're trying to it was like at the beginning I don't know it was between it was before people like talked that way and it uh did catch me off card. That was a long time ago. Wait did you know the term bloom at that point yeah I know what they were talking about I just thought it was a weird question to ask me.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:31

That is a weird question but now I would wouldn't think twice then ask me now uh thank you so much for coming in it's okay thanks for having me to chat yeah it's uh you're I I really enjoy whenever you're on a on a panel you're very use you you are very reserved but I think that you answer like you very pointed with your answers. I think you uh have so much knowledge to offer and that's why uh I just enjoy thorough like thoroughly enjoy talking to you uh just because I and I also appreciate your take on the industry okay thanks so I mean we went all over the place there but no I know I know but that's that's the beauty of this kind of thing so um yeah thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Well thanks for having me and talking for talking about coffee and dogs and coffee and dogs and keep things no well dogs keep us see they keep us okay they'll see I agree protect us from the ghosts and all the bad bad they did not protect me from the ghost in my apartment at the time but this is like making me scared but it's fine now I think so did you do like what okay I'll ask you later no there was like some sort of exorcism that happened uh yeah it wasn't uh no it's uh it's totally like yeah oh my god did you have freeze come in and do anything I had someone who's in Mexico and she did like like from remote remote it was a remote exorcism um but I had to throw something out from my apartment do you know that that thing was she told she told me and then we uncovered what it was and whose it was and it was wild that's so cool it was also scary. How did you sleep?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:14

Well I wasn't sleeping for six months that's why I thought my apartment was haunted.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Yeah and so yeah I told his lady by the way because I know I know that yeah so yeah it was wild.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:26

Wow um well thank you again well that's it for today's episode of Extraordinary Joe. If this conversation meant something to you the best thing you could do is share it with someone who you think might need to hear it. Please leave us a review hit subscribe and come back for the next episode. You can find Extraordinary Joe wherever you listen to podcasts including Apple Podcasts Spotify and check out the video on YouTube. Links are gonna be in the show notes and if you want to stay connected with two episodes and follow us on Instagram you can find the show at extraordinaryjo podcast on Instagram and you can follow me at coffee talk guy on Instagram as well. You can also follow BirchCoffee at BirchCoffee the episode was produced and edited by myself and Benjamin Keynes and the theme music was composed by yours truly until next time keep it extraordinary