Ep. 12 - Towards 2030: Practical Governance Strategies for Procurement Success at Bosch - with Dr. Thomas Schulte

At Bosch, governance significantly contributes to business success, and actively supports purchasing teams by integrating compliance and functional excellence.

Martina Buchhauser speaks with Dr. Thomas Schulte, Head of Governance Supply Chain Management Purchasing at Bosch, about how governance acts as a "license to operate" in procurement. Dr. Schulte outlines Bosch’s collaborative approach—working with business unit representatives to analyse regulations and embed practical compliance solutions into everyday operations. From managing dual-sourcing complexities to advancing sustainability through circularity, Bosch’s governance model fosters adaptability, strategic risk management, and resilience, all driven by a top-level commitment to sustainable growth.


You'll learn:

1. Bosch’s unique governance model that fosters compliance and functional excellence
2. Strategic insights into dual-sourcing and regionalisation for balanced risk management
3. How Bosch integrates circularity and sustainability within procurement processes
4. Why top-down commitment is essential to embedding sustainability in corporate culture
5. The importance of cross-functional role rotation to drive governance acceptance and collaboration

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Get in touch with Dr. Thomas Schulte on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-thomas-schulte-989aa1243/?originalSubdomain=de

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Details about Bosch:
Website: https://www.bosch.com
Industry: Software Development
Company size: 10,001+ employees
Headquarters: Gerlingen-Schillerhöhe, Germany
Founded: 1886

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About the host Martina Buchhauser:
Martina Buchhauser is a global leader with extensive knowledge of the automotive industry, and its shift towards sustainable technologies and low-carbon business practices. Her leadership journey includes executive roles in Global Procurement and Supply Chain Networks at General Motors, MAN, BMW, and Volvo Cars, where she served as Chief Procurement Officer and on the management board. She is a senior advisor at H&Z Management Consulting and a non-executive director on several company boards. Martina enjoys hiking, golfing, and skiing, and values time with her family and friends from around the world. She is passionate about leadership and actively engaged in developing and promoting talent.

Get in touch with Martina Buchhauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martina-buchhauser/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

If I take the supply chain due diligence law, I cannot take uh talk to 1,000 buyers or 2,000 buyers and tell them read the law and act accordingly. Yeah, I have to understand uh do I have to change a contract? Do I have to change a certain IT system or process? Do I need to provide trainings to people or do I need to provide trainings for suppliers? Maybe I have to implement an internal directive. So there are multiple levers that we can use to make sure that the organization at the end is compliant and we need to find out which lever or which combination of levers is the most efficient.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Welcome to the Procurement Initiative Leaders Podcast, the ultimate resource for top-level procurement professionals looking to stay ahead of the curve and drive meaningful change within their organizations. I'm your host, Martina Buchhauser, founder of the Procurement Initiative ThinkTank and senior advisor at HSET, Europe's leading management consultancy. Join me as I sit down with global leaders in procurement and other relevant areas to uncover the latest trends, strategies, and insights that are shaping the future of procurement. We tackle crucial topics like leadership, technology, value creation, cost management, resilient supply chains, innovation, and many more. Ready to up your game as a leader in procurement? Let's jump into this episode of the Procurement Initiative Leaders Podcast with me, Martina Buchhauser. Hello everyone, my name is Martina Buchhauser. Welcome to the Procurement Initiative Podcast Series. Today I'm very excited to have Thomas, Dr. Thomas Schulte with me. Thomas is with Bosch and he's the head of governance supply chain management purchasing. Thomas, you will explain to us what that really means, right? But maybe just quickly a short introduction. You've been with Bosch for a long time, you've been in research, you've been in various roles in uh in the procurement purchasing area. So I guess you're the one to talk to when it comes down to procurement, and this is really what the audience also wants to hear. Um, we will talk about a couple of things, especially nowadays where the world seems to be really challenging, uh, and it has always been, but right now, especially for supply chain and procurement, it's quite tough to go by. But I think you have a few solutions. And um I will let you speak, and maybe you know, we're gonna start with what does the job uh encompass? What's your responsibility within the big uh Bosch group?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah, as you said, the uh group is big. Uh thanks first of all for having me uh and for this great opportunity to talk to you and also get in contact with the audience and the colleagues. Um so yeah, starting with me, my my personal background. Actually, I'm an electronic engineer. I I graduated from Aachen more than 30 years ago. And uh when I started at Bosch in research and development, I have to admit that I never thought about um working in purchasing at any time. So um this is one of the opportunities a large enterprise is giving to you to change functions and to explore new horizons, uh, which I did. So um uh the Bosch purchasing organizations um they uh encompass more than 8,000 associates in total. We are dealing with more than 30,000 direct suppliers, and uh, we have um, let's say, three major um dimensions. The first dimension is uh direct procurement, uh so the procurement for materials for um the production. And this is situated in the different business divisions. So the automotive business divisions has an own direct purchasing organization, as has uh Bosch Siemens Household Appliances or our home comfort area. We have an indirect purchasing uh organization which is serving all Bosch entities, and this is organized as a global service, a mandatory global service used by all divisions. And I'm responsible for the third dimension, uh, the governance dimension. That means uh me and my organization, we take care that the we keep the license to operate or we provide the license to operate, and we also make sure that the different entities have a certain level of functional excellence.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Well, I can imagine, Thomas, that right now, I mean, first of all, I think it's super important, especially in a large corporation, to make sure you give the frameworks to the people who have to deal with the procurement uh every day and have to run their sourcing processes and keep suppliers afloat, keep the quality going and everything, and especially keep supply security going. And with everything going on around the world, with even more protectionism everywhere, tariffs here, new rules there, regulations from a sustainability perspective. So I can only imagine that it is very helpful actually for the uh for the procurement troops uh to have someone who slices a bit the, I don't want to say the elephant, but who slices the things a bit in one, you know, in in in bits and pieces so that you know you bring together what's needed from an external uh perspective, but also to bring together how internally do functions work together. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, it's it's uh uh very correct, and it's also yeah, very interesting um journey we have undergone. When I started at Governance Purchasing 2019, and that is only five years ago, um, this function was completely new at Bosch. And now, after five years, um I I can just say um we are dragged into multiple topics, uh, and the community is extremely um yeah uh grateful, and we we also receive a lot of support and a lot of uh interaction with us uh because of the complexity and the topics that you have just mentioned. Because you can see it from a logical standpoint. It's of course much easier if one expert in an organization is analyzing a law and the implication of this law on an organization rather than 10 people or 15 people doing that. So it is more efficient. We get one solution, and and that is one of the key success factors of our setting. Uh, we are working in chapters, we are working together with the business divisions. That means it is not one expert uh writing a letter or uh giving an information to everybody telling people how to behave, but we um strongly involve our purchasing divisions already from the very beginning and also other cross-functional departments. So whatever we bring up already has a very high level of practicability, and therefore we have uh also very good acceptance in the organization.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah, I was gonna say so it's it's important to have the acceptance, right? And that you only create when you have all the uh the parties that should be there and that have the knowledge, also the practical knowledge. I mean, it's one thing if someone reads and interprets new laws, right? New new new regulations, but it also has to be applied in the end uh in the daily operations. And there, I think it is super important to have the people who actually stand there in front of the suppliers uh and run their sourcing processes every day. So that I think is really cool. And I think that's also something for our audience that should always be considered. Uh, but I think right now it's almost not possible anymore, you know, without uh a function like like youLEED to understand what's happening and how do we how do we adapt this to daily business uh practices.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah, I can share one other success factor in this respect with you. Um when people joined my team five years ago, I told them that actually I don't want to see them in my team after five years. The idea was we should always get people from the divisions becoming experts in some areas, developing themselves further, and then changing as multipliers into the organization. That is not true for everyone in my organization, but for the majority. So we have a few experts who remain in governance, but the rest is really becoming expert and then becoming multiplier. And the the great benefit is um that nobody ever said what has been created here or in the teams is something from the ivory tower. Because the people that the purchasing heads, the experts the purchasing heads talk to, are those people that used to work with them yesterday and will work with them tomorrow. And and this um of course creates uh a lot of effort for me to um to um get good candidates for the organization, to train them in a short way to bring them to an efficiency and expert level. But on the other hand, um we have high acceptance, and I think the high acceptance is outperforming the or it's it's justifying the effort we have um to uh yeah renew the um organization uh very frequently.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

I think that's a really good point, and uh it's all it's almost like in the whole organization, it uh it would be good to rotate a little more to uh to really create more understanding for people, you know, what's happening on the other side here, where I always complain that they're late, but they might have their reasons, right? So I mean it's a bit, you know, this uh this thing between procurement and engineering sometimes for direct material, right? Where you but you have to otherwise you have to talk to people to make sure you understand where they're coming from and why things are happening uh the way they're happening. And and I also think you can you can do this by you know putting teams together that really consist of cross-functional uh groups. So, anyway, back to your um governance. You you mentioned earlier, Thomas, that you know, there's on the one hand there's the functional excellence, on the other hand, there's the compliance, uh, let's say more from a uh sustainability, uh human rights, you know, whatever perspective. Can you uh talk a little a little more about those two um aspects of uh let's say the governance? Because I think that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So the regulative framing, if we take that in general, of course, uh covers all those aspects. As you said, it may be um certain taxes coming up, it may be certain uh sanction regimes which have to be implied. We saw that uh when the uh Russian war on Ukraine started. Uh we have local regulations like the Uyghurs Force Labor Prevention Act in the US, who has or which has impacts uh also on other regions. And of course, we have those strategies you mentioned, decarbonization, for instance, or implementing certain human rights standards in the supply chains, um, also pushed by the German Supply Chain Dutiligence Act. So practically what we're doing is our experts are scanning um the legislation. Um, they of course also talk uh with experts from other organizations. We have stakeholder dialogues with other companies, with NGOs and everybody to understand what are the implications of those regulations on us. And then we have to understand, and that is probably the core benefit of my organization, um, how we can make this digestible for our buyers. Yeah, if I take the supply chain due diligence law, I cannot take uh talk to 1,000 buyers or 2,000 buyers and tell them, read the law and act accordingly. Yeah, I have to understand uh do I have to change a contract? Do I have to change a certain IT system or process? Do I need to provide trainings to people or do I need to provide trainings for suppliers? Maybe I have to implement an internal directive. So there are multiple levers that we can use to make sure that the organization at the end is compliant, and we need to find out which lever or which combination of levers is the most efficient.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, that sounds really tough with all the regulations and then also regulations in very different countries, right? So that's all what you kind of have to pick up and uh and get going. And then you say you have the other part, the functional excellence, that is then on, let's say, the pure procurement processes and how do you collaborate with the other functions of the company, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, it is also to make sure that the um purchasing different purchasing organizations with respect to their peer group are functionally excellent. Because the if you look into Bosch, it's a very heterogeneous enterprise, and the procurement business for Bosch Siemens Household Appliances, for instance, is a complete different one than those for Bosch Rechrod, because um the sales of household appliances follows other rules than successful sales or business in the industrial area, and therefore, um, even though we are comparing the different business, uh the purchasing organization amongst each other to understand is their best practice we can share, we are also frequently benchmarking the organizations against their peers, and then we try to understand which improvements do we have to make. And interestingly, often we get then impulses from one area of the business, which seems to be reasonably or can reasonably apply it also to other areas, and that that is where we really create then synergetic and very positive effects.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Well, that's great that you have this kind of uh benchmarking opportunity internally, right? You don't even have to pay money for it. Just kidding. Um so so maybe then um if we if we think about our audience and what you know what's their uh pain points today. Um, of course, it's a lot about supply chain, it's a lot about um, you know, you always hear about decoupling from certain um regions of the world, although I mean that's also um you know kind of has to be part of the strategy or has to be really well thought through. Um, because any type of protectionism, of course, isn't really helping. Plus, if you have plants in certain regions, then you of course have to be present and you have to have a supply base there, right? So um how do you how do you go about this now? Because everyone is talking about you know more regional uh um supply chains. Um, should we still keep up global supplies? What's the what's the deal with Bosch? What and I I know you you can't generalize on that, uh, but how do you do?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, as you said, Martina, uh, we cannot generalize. And uh first of all, we need to provide transparency. We need to understand uh which type of components uh do we need for which plants. And um this is not only true for today, but also of course for the upcoming years. Next one we have learned in many years that if global trade is possible, usually you would find one source which is the best. I'm not necessarily saying cheapest, but if you look into total cost of ownership, that is the best one. And if you then um source at a second source or third source in the same region or in other regions, you will find out that normally your cost will be increasing. And now comes the first decision point. Um, do I invest into um multiple source or regional sourcing strategy, even at times when I'm not under pressure? Or do I try to harvest or exploit or use the best global source as long as possible? But then in case that this sourcing process is interrupted for any reason, I'm agile enough to switch to another source and still fulfill my customer requirements. Yeah. And this is for yeah, this is for me key. The the customer requirement, yeah, to understand do I really have to deliver every day? Or is it also okay to maybe uh reduce deliveries for one or two months and then pick up again? If that is the case, then I get completely different degrees of freedom to um yeah, to implement then resilience concepts.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think there's still this thinking out there that, well, just have two suppliers and you're fine, right? But then people don't uh or underestimate a little bit how much it costs to have two suppliers, to go through a whole development process uh and validation process with two suppliers uh and on and on. So and it and it continues in operations with the storing things, and so it's just never ending, right? So, yes, you really have to think about you know, even the component itself, right? What's the right what's the right thing for that component? Um, and it could be very different to others. I mean, there's a lot of just in time, just in sequence supplies in the automotive industry. That of course then is also different to if if a component just you know can be shipped easily from one source.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

And Martina, let me just uh share two thoughts with you here in this respect. If we talk about two suppliers, I can just say from my own experience, I had this example 10 years ago where we thought we had two different suppliers, and then we had to find out the hard way that this tier four supplier was actually delivering to our independent two sources. So so here you you also need to uh to uh dig deep to really become secure that you are independent from your sources. And the other aspect is that let's say this transformation or also interruptions often hardly are predictable. I mean, if we look into today and uh three years or five years ago, uh we have now the uh elections coming up in different countries, um, the situation in two years might be a complete different one.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I completely agree with you. Um, you you cannot actually secure everything to 100% because things are happening. But I think on the other hand, there is a lot of complexity in different industries. I can more speak about the automotive industry, and I know that complexity is so high just because you know it might things might be overspecified, um, things might be, there might be too many variants uh for one thing. Um all these examples, right? Do you do you have a feeling that in general um there is enough focus on reducing complexity? And of course, uh, of course, Bosch is is a tier one and a tier two in many cases, right? Um because it would be really good if you know all the tier ones of the world would actually uh go to the OEMs and and help uh reduce complexity, but that has not happened so much in the past. In bits and pieces, of course, but I think that there this is the key. There can be a lot more uh complexity reduction to secure supplies in the end.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

And on the other hand, often uh this complexity is then distinguishing competition. So many, many uh OEM, not only automotive, but also in other areas, of course, they use innovation, they use latest technologies, latest materials, special materials in order to distinguish from competition. So here I think we have an inherent as uh especially in innovative um uh businesses or business areas. Uh we have this uh intrinsic drive. For specialization or for certain for for not using the standard but but being different. And in parallel, of course, we have all this complexity with is which is coming from regulations. So the regulative framing is also a complexity driver. And I I I was just thinking about your question. I think yes, it would be extremely desirable to reduce complexity and get back to something simple which is easier to be manageable. On the other hand, I think the probability that we are going to be driven into more complexity is higher. So maybe the better approach is to make us fit for dealing with complexity rather than striving for simplicity. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, but I think we need we need to enable ourselves to be successful under very complex conditions in purchasing.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah, I fully agree, and it will take some time anyway, and you're absolutely right. I mean, with all the regulations, of course, and tariffs here and there, I mean, it's just complexity added. Totally agree. And I I also think that if you know, if innovation really drives competition and makes the difference, I'm totally with you. Of course, that would be a USP and that would be something you can market. But I think many people think they have they hold the USP in their hands, although the customer doesn't even see the part, you know. So there is a bit of a give and take. Uh, and and I don't mean to reduce where you know you can actually um distinguish yourself from the competition where customers are really keen on. That that's not what I mean, definitely. But there's so much, you know, kind of below the line that that could be attacked, right? And yeah, that's something that also I think I really think needs to happen, because otherwise we're just uh the supply chains will not work. Because we even have to dig deeper, right? As you just said. I mean, we even have to take the time more and more to, you know, don't stop at the tier one, at your tier one, because that you saw that that was a problem, but go even deeper, and that will help you on the cost side, it will help you on the sustainability side, and to make sure that you become more resilient, correct?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

I I I fully buy into this, and I think sustainability here can be a driver for many aspects. If we think that we want to become um, for instance, uh CO2 neutral with business at a certain time, and I'm not talking about Bosch, I'm talking about um our global communities and societies. And if we compare that target state with the current state, we see that there is a lot of work to do and a lot of change needs to take place to bring us into this future state. And now if we if we think about this transition, which has to take place anyway, then if we if we conduct this transition in exactly the way you mentioned, yeah, in a way, keep it simple, um, use materials that can be recycled, make sure that the designs are uh avoid CO2 hotspots, make sure that we get into local supply alternatives, and then by and by also create more resilient supply chains. Um, I think we would get into a flow, which is maybe fostered a little bit by sustainability, but would have a lot of positive uh outcome on the left and the right.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Absolutely. Um, and I think that's a good point, talking a bit more about sustainability, which I think is a bit unfortunately, and I and when I say sustainability, I mean decarbonization, securing human rights, you know, all the the the framework basically, the the term for all the things that need to happen. And um it goes in waves. It's I have a feeling that you know, whenever there's a big crisis, of course, cost is going to be the issue, resilience or uh securing supplies is the issue, and then kind of sustainability falls down a little bit again, and then it comes up again, and then hopefully not the next uh uh crisis is coming so that we can actually put more effort into decarbonization, which I mean, I don't know how many more examples we need, but it is needed, and it's also clear that we're gonna make a big shift uh only if all of the industries or the the key industries are buying into it and taking the the respective actions, right? Yeah. So how do you how do you make sure that you know, yes, cost is always an issue, and yes, we always need to work with cost reduction. I'm not saying, you know, just achieving savings, I'm talking about true cost reduction where you work with your supplier and you find ways or you reduce complexity, da-da-da. Um but how do you make sure you kind of hold that up, but you also don't let go of the very important piece of decarbonization and/or let's say sustainability as a as a term that uh covers everything.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

I would say specifically for Bosch, we have some aspects which are supporting our long-term sustainability strategy. We have uh a DNA at Bosch, which is going back to our founder, um, who was very much into um dealing in a human way with humans and conducting business in a compliant way and in a clear way, standing for uh to stand for your word and and to provide quality. And and this is something you really sense and feel today if you're working with Inbosh, that has not changed at all. We have uh buy-in from our board um for sustainability, I and I think this note from the board, note from the top is extremely important. Yeah, if if sustainability is just something which is driven by middle management and uh driven as long as it's beneficial, uh I think there will be a harder time. Uh so if if there is this um drive, drive from the top. Yes, we want to change our business, we want to become more sustainable, then uh you also have the power to sustain the hard times. And yes, for sustainability, I mean you can harvest uh the simple things, yeah, energy efficiency and green energy. So there are some things you can do and where you can improve your sustainability, you can improve your footprints, and at the same time you can save money. And then comes the point when you need to talk about changing your product portfolio, maybe maybe changing plant locations, maybe changing processes, and where you need to invest initially, and where you need to take decisions on what is your return on invest. And maybe the return on invest is not six months and not one year, but five years or ten years. And here comes we're talking about circularity. Yeah, circularity is usually not something where you where you harvest after half a year. You have to believe into certain technologies, you have to establish certain um paths for your material and also for the return of material. You have to think about designs of the future, and here you need uh the long breath. You need you need people who are intrinsically driven, and I think that is another component. Yeah, people who who who feel they want to change the business and then also endure during hard times.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Absolutely, and this is the hard part, and it will take some time, right? If you say you want to go circular, and it it really starts, well, it starts on two ends, one more in the design and development process, right? To pick the right materials that can actually be circular and can be reused, recycled, whatever. I mean, if you can even if you can avoid the recycling, right? Good. Yeah. So okay, we'll continue. Um yes, circularity uh is really interesting, and you know, it it kind of goes two ways. One is you start with the design and and development, or in the design and development process, right? To make sure that you actually um find the right materials that can be reused. Um and then on the other hand, you have your processes that can actually introduce um recycling, you know, in a way that aluminum can be a closed loop um process. Um, so so there are good examples where you can actually introduce things a bit faster now, um, but then the rest will come through new products that then go through the whole process of uh design and development, procuring the right things in the right in the first place, right? So it I'd be interested because I see a lot of companies that have actually gone that way um and are really good at it. How would you say uh Bosch is doing? Have you done the things that you can actually tackle now without waiting for this next, you know, whole new uh product generation? Um are there things you're doing today that could be good examples for the rest of the uh the the for our audience today?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, we there's there's of course a lot of experience within the company, like um some business we are not doing right now anymore, at least to my know-how. Um we have um uh collected starters and generators and reworked starters and generators also from competitors and sold them again as used components. Um, today we are in some regions um collecting um, for instance, um used power tools and we are refurbishing those uh power tools. We have also leasing concepts. I know of a um household applying leasing concept in Europe where you can uh lease uh your machine and then give it back because the um in many of the household appliances, um the chassis, for instance, is still okay after 10 years. Maybe you have to um change a pump or certain interior or adopt electronics, but um parts of the components can be reused. And here we really need to understand together with our partners uh what type of design is required in order to enable or at least ease um those profile uh processes, other the remanufacturing and and refurbishing. Plus, uh, we also need to understand how do we get material back. Because if we say sell a washing machine, for instance, the sales channel is a complete different one than for a spark injection for uh uh a car. And that means that our different uh businesses have to understand which type of access they can have on use material and then to develop their own individual approach to circularity. And as you can, as you mentioned, that can be a very broad approach, like from raw material to the final product, but it could also be circularity rather around a plant or a certain location because there a certain scrap material can be made available or can be reused.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Because you don't want to wait until you know that next generation product is designed, and you mean there's things you can do now, which is which is great, um, which you can tackle. But don't you think that there's a whole new uh skill needed um to partner up with new people, to listen to your partners and figure out ways, you know, how about, you know, how can we bring back material, how can we bring back products that can be refurbished and on and on through the the different channels, as you mentioned, of your uh different business units uh alone in Bosch, right? So a bit of a new skill in I think in partnering up with others, maybe even new business models will come up here, which is also really exciting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah, it is exciting, and uh, in fact, we're doing that. So there are partnering programs, and uh we are partnering with startups, we are partnering with uh well-established companies. There are yeah, multiple ways. And I think this is also quite an interesting opportunity for purchasing again to just show our capabilities and the variety, because as you said, it's not just um purchase a part somewhere as cheap as possible, it's thinking way beyond and thinking um how can we and our business or potential business partner benefit from a certain setting? And maybe we also have to significantly scale this setting first, which means risk for both parties. So, yes, uh, I think uh great times, really also great opportunities for purchasing uh with respect to circularity.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Talk about the uh the different skills and competencies that have to exist in a in a procurement organization, right? It's uh it's massive, uh, but very exciting, I think. Very exciting uh also to draw new talent into procurement, right? Thomas, yes, great. Uh it's been a pleasure. We're coming slowly to the end of our podcast session of today. Um, are there any more words of wisdom that you would keep uh leave with our audience here today?

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I don't know if it's uh words of wisdom, let's say words of experience, at least. I would say uh I would I would uh come back to something that you said before. Like sustainability is um a topic which has its high points and its low points where you need a certain endurance. And my experience is uh to keep direction. Yeah, if we talk about resilience, if we talk about digitization, if we talk about sustainability, it is always, and don't get me wrong, it's it's more simple to have the lighthouse projects, the pilot things um and and to show the potential of a technology on an approach, but then to really drive it, to drive it globally, to drive it to 100% or maybe at least to 90%, to convince the masses of people to also address those areas where uh initial benefit is not directly tangible. I think this is important, this is really important to have an effect. And so keep direction, even if there are temporarily changing priorities. I say that is an experience I've made and that I'm also trying to implement every day in my business.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

That's a wonderful hint for everyone, for our audience and for ourselves. Uh, thank you so much, Thomas, um, for this podcast today. Super interesting insights, and um I thank you very much for being our guest today.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Thanks for having me and all the best to you. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Bye. Thank you for joining us on the Procurement Initiative Leaders podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. Looking for more procurement insights, tips, and developments from leading procurement professionals? Join our procurement initiative community on LinkedIn. Just open LinkedIn and search for the Procurement Initiative community. And be sure to hit that subscribe button to never miss another episode.